You’re Losing Money Without These Affiliate Strategies | Amber Spears | MMP #033

Introduction to Customer Acquisition there's three primary ways of acquiring customers paid media in all of its various forms earn media right your organic your PR kind of all of that your customer testimonials like all of this and then your Partnerships and so at the end of the day one of the reasons why people want to add that in is because it provides stability in order for that piece to be stable you should also have diversification inside of the program in terms of your affiliate program as well your watching marketing Misfits with nor Ferrar and Kevin Welcome to Marketing Misfits k something is coming to my mind Norm did could wait oh wait the people are listening to the podcast uh oh be careful what you say because I think uh we already started recording be be careful hey nor what are you doing how Casual Banter and Podcast Routine you doing man man this feels like it's the third podcast today uh yeah you know we shoot the uh we film these in batches for those uh you listening so we do these in groups and then then we put them out that's the most efficient way for us to do it but uh it's it's always fun I look forward to these days because I get to I get to pick on you uh and uh we get to we get to talk shop with some really fascinating and smart people and uh I know both of us a lot of times are taking our own notes uh as we're talking to the guest uh so it's it's always great yeah and the topic today is Introducing Today's Topic and Guest something I want to learn so much more you know you think that we're kind of fossils in the business and well you know you a little bit old you a little you you are old and gray I mean you are kind of like I had you carbon dated you didn't know this but you know when we were when we were in that Airbnb I actually took one of your shirts it had some of your hairs on it your beard hairs that had fallen off on your t-shirts and I actually took it down the street and had it carbon dated hey you know what just to just to see what I was awake I was awake and I let you do that stories these stories that he's been telling me every time we're out smoking cigars okay now believe them that he was actually there when when the revolution happened when uh the Civil War when Lincoln gave the proclamation um when Canada actually became a country I'm like all right he was actually there now now I I I believe all your stories well at least you know when I carbon dated you uh it didn't come back Jurassic period I might be the Triassic period but okay so we are yeah we we may be old but we know how to sell things and you know how to sell things and you've actually given a shot uh and um doing some of what we're going to be talking about today and and using other people to help you basically creating your own Salesforce go using others right yeah but I got to tell you this story you just said you know we sell stuff I just remembered from about 25 years ago we had a reception we actually had a bricks and mortar office people actually came in and we had this receptionist really nice lady that you know was was our front face of what we did and we sold uh uh premium incentives we were working with event companies and there were mostly Fortune 500 companies that would come into the uh boardroom well I really didn't realize what she was telling people or what she realized we were selling so I heard her on the phone the one day so I was down in the office and the phone rings and she picks up the phone and she goes I I don't I guess the question was what do you do was probably a telephone solicitor she goes we uh we sell things to big companies and I went I better educate I better give her some education I just took it for credit that was what we did we sell things to big companies that's because you're doing promotion produ and there's like a catalog of 500 5,000 things she's like oh we sell things so I had to say that I sorry sorry well speaking of sell things I mean doesn't matter what you have to sell what thing you have to sell Our Guest today Amber Spears is one of the top when it comes to like teaching you how to actually build an army of of independent sales people how to actually reach out to them how to deal with them how to do all this stuff she's spoken on stages on all the top stages in the Space Traffic conversion back when it existed it doesn't exist anymore to all these kinds of other things she's got her own big Mastermind that she does I'm sure we'll talk talk about but I'm excited uh to have her on today she's she's probably one of the top of the top when it comes to this she spoken an affiliate marketing World which is a big event that happens a couple years a couple times a year uh that attracts like five 10,000 people or something in that space it's a huge industry that a lot of people especially a lot of our listeners come from e-commerce so they may know they they know influencer marketing they know Tik Tok shop they know some of this stuff but they don't realize how big of a business it's been on like SEO and the affiliate side of actually how important that is to actually cultivate that and to do that and that's what we're going to be talking about today and I think it's going to be pretty cool all right well let's bring her on let's do it hi Amber hey how you doing I'm doing great thanks for having me I'm super Amber Spears' Background and Journey grateful to be here and uh excited to to chat with some Legends apparently some very old ones had no idea you look far you know old means Wise Old means wise you know that's that's so we'll take that we'll take that I like it I'm here for so you've been I understand you've been selling since you were in diapers basically even like one of these people that it's been in your blood since you since since the beginning of time can you tell us a little bit about your your background before you you got into what you're doing now yeah totally I mean I feel like um we're always selling some something you know selling people on our opinions and our perspectives and um you know I think we we've done all of us have done that from the womb in some form or fashion but um I grew up um homeschooled super awkward dad was a pastor um fundamentalist preacher style pastor and never really felt like I fit in and um didn't know what I was going to do with my future um ended up getting a scholarship uh when I was in a group home and um ended up getting into the University of Arizona and um just kind of fell in love with like education and and fell in love with politics as was a polys side major and and then I was the first non business major invited to the ER College of Business um which then really kind of got me into that entrepreneurial bug where I was like oh wow you can like make a living just like kind of inventing things to do for other people uh that's kind of cool and uh one of my professors at uh ER College of Business they asked him um you know what he would be doing if he was starting from scratch he had sold his company to Oracle for hundreds of millions of dollars and he shared then that he would get into SEO um and that that he thought that would be the future that Google would be what we would use to find things not decks and Yellow Pages I'm sure you guys know um what that was like in back in the day and uh he was like no we're going to use Google and not for research papers but to find everything that we want restaurants or attorneys or whatever and I would figure out how to learn that algorithm and hack it and help companies Market through that and um that's what I did I ended up accept you know finding a Craigslist ad that said we cracked Google's algorithm and uh I was employee number one and started selling search engine optimization door to door to people that did not understand for the most part they're like I'm paying deck and Yellow Pages 20,000 a year why would I pay you 75 bucks a month so get like that doesn't make any sense um and I'm telling them like this is the future this is where things are going and the ones that said yes you know for that tiny amount of money made a lot of money we could see it in the call tracking and that's really where like the Evangelist kind of light bulb moment went off for me where I was like oh wow we really can help these businesses like I'm seeing the call tracking I'm hearing the recordings like you know these guys are paying a 75 bucks a month they're getting like 300 new patients every single month from this this is crazy um and I did that for five or six years and then I ended up um uh applying via a long form sales letter to work at Agora uh and ended up taking a position there learning copywriting and the rest of it's kind of History I I love writing but I don't like copywriting like I spent all my time behind a computer that's really boring um so I started doing affiliate marketing for that Agora company and crushed it and my career kind of just took off from there um and I think it's probably because I'm I was good at it when you compare me to people who are used to talking on Skype you know and chat forums and email like I was willing to pick up the phone and talk to them or fly to them you know wherever they were I was like oh there's a big affiliate we need to talk to like I'll just happen to be in Austin you know company pce for it I'll go you know I know kids and you know I was just like I was young so um um that's where it kind of took off and had some great success worked with a lot of of great companies and um have kind of made it my mission to help companies grow their region and revenue with Partnerships so those us don't know who agore is you can you look it up online but they're one of the I think they're a billion dollar multi-billion dollar billion yeah and they they they do newsletters so they do email newsletters printed they still do tons of physical mail printed newsletters like you hold in your hands you know on paper uh and they're they're Masters and Masters in marketing so when Amber she just kind of passed over that she did copyrighting and stuff for for them that's actually a major um because they test everything to the nines like every little apostrophe I mean everything just crazy so if you you work there for five and a half years and then and Beyond and cut your teeth there that says a lot about what she knows um so I just wanted to clarify that for everybody but go ahead Norm no what I was going to say is uh amber I don't SEO and Affiliate Marketing Insights know if you remember this but if you were in SEO at the time this is going to show how old I am I used to rent out pages to dentists insurance companies Charter fisherman I'd get them ranked number one and if they wanted to be on that page they'd have to pay X number of dollars per month and if they didn't if they didn't sign up I would go to their competitor next door say hey it was all local for the most part but uh good old SEO days so good man like those were the days we had like 3 link builders in India just keyword stuff just like you know I mean it's like what's the secret SAU Brute Force that's the secret sauces right days like were you back you said you started around the time of Google were you doing ala Vista or lyos or any of that stuff back when that existed before Google back then was the SEO as an industry didn't really exist but you could just it's just all the meta tags in meta descriptions is as how you ranked and white text P text on the page and convert it to white color so nobody can see it and all that kind of crazy stuff we did that we did that on Google yeah you know I would say like any good salesperson I knew just enough to be dangerous you know we had a tech team that took care of all that I would just my job was to sell packages and I started selling $75 a month packages and by the time I left I was selling you know $200,000 dollar month packages to Sigma Etna LifeLock you know um so I knew just enough to be dangerous I didn't know all the ins and outs of how they hacked in or what they did I just knew we keyword stuffed and had all these pages and whatever it worked fiddle fatle at the endp put was that they got a lot of calls and customers and leads and and they were happy with us so how do you see how has seo's The Evolution of SEO and AI Impact evolved a lot I mean it's a I think it's like a somewhere I saw 99 91 billion a year industry right now and there's a lot of people I mean it's evolved every time Google's made a big update you I remember the panda update and this update it completely put some people out of business and they had to change everything they're doing to game the system and did rely on some backlinks or do you rely on them and this and that and nower base kind of like how's AI going to affect all this um and SEO what what are your thoughts of the how it's evolved over time it was super easy like you said in the days to where it became a true science to now how it's going to AI what what do you think can you talk about that a little bit yeah I mean as far as like AI right like I'm worried about Google in terms of like it I use perplexity and now almost exclusively when I'm searching for stuff like I will use Google for certain things but like you know for me I'm using perplexity a lot um you know as a as a search engine not as an as a search engine yeah just as a pure search engine yeah so for me it's like I worry about you know their not a company they just had Willow come out and like a bunch of other stuff you know so I'm not concerned in the sense of them as a company although search is a huge part of their revenue um from an affiliate perspective you know I think it's it's interesting to me because like if you look at where the puck is going so much of the puck like anything you guys have seen this right I've been ini long enough where it was like all vsls and then it went to long form and then it swung back to vsl and you know all these things started happening right webinars became sexy again they were dead now they're alive right there's there's all kinds of things that switch but when it comes to Affiliates I think it's clear the puck is going towards the influencer Creator in a big way and I see a lot of people moving so much of their stuff there and at the end of the day all of this is affiliate marketing influencers joint ventures you know Tik Tok all that stuff is Affiliates right it's just the types of channels that you work with these Affiliates on and what I tell my clients is like don't put all your eggs in one basket meaning don't put it influencers and creators and take it away from traditional Affiliates which is newsletters or SEO or blogs or cashback you know sites or coupon code if you do that and you know some of these other things it's like don't stop doing that because you need to diversify but also don't rely on it like if your whole model has been you work with these historic sites that get organic traffic I would be concerned right just because that that model is shifting a lot whether it's going to PR cutter and that kind of thing that yeah I mean if that's your only way of generating affiliate traffic right now I would be concerned because the way that people are searching for that stuff is changing right so it's like I wouldn't I would not not do business with them I would also try to diversify my actual affiliate program to be working with influencers and creators if I'm not you know Tik Tok Affiliates if I'm not right um cashback cashback sites if I'm not you know PR companies like there's just a lot of different ways that I'd be thinking about diversifying who I'm working with to mitigate risk I mean I think it's one of the reasons why companies want to add in a partnership program to begin with why would they do that there's three primary ways of acquiring customers paid media and all of its various forms earn media right Building a Competitive Affiliate Program your organic your PR kind of all of that your customer testimonials like all of this and then your Partnerships and so at the end of the day one of the reasons why people want to add that in is because it provides stability in order for that piece to be stable you should also have diversification inside of the program in terms of your affiliate program as well and not just rely on one type of affiliate because then you're not as worried about the rise of AI or the rise of this or the rise of that because you have diversification in your program now that's a sophisticated program right I don't recommend that everybody just start starting a bunch of stuff all at once it's like nail down you know maybe you're going to be on Tik Tok and saturate Tik Tok before you know you you switch over and start working with content bloggers or you know someone on Instagram what have you right but I think thinking through that is making sure that you're Diversified even inside of your program and just know and be aware like if I was relying heavily on SEO you know kind of stuff from Google I should be concerned and now word from one of our sponsors one of Norman I's favorite tools stack influence are you looking to quickly boost new Amazon product launches or scale up existing listings to reach firstpage positioning the influencer platform stack influence can help stack influence pushes high volume external traffic sales to Amazon listings using micro influencers and guess what you only have to pay with your products they've helped upand cominging Brands like magic spoon compete with Cheerios for top category positioning while Al helping Fortune 500 Brands like unil lever launch their new products right now is the best time to get started with stack influence to crush it during this holiday season that's right dorm sign up today at stack influence.com or click the link in the video below and mention Misfits that's right Misfits m s fit TS to get 10% off your first campaign head over to stack influence.com right now someone that was focusing on blogs to drive SEO traffic to blogs and over you think that's going to be diminished or you think that's going to the AI will still pick that up if you change the way you start developing the blogs instead of intro body conclusion all the little formats now that and actually start gearing that more towards what AI wants or what do you think's going to happen there um like I said I wouldn't discount them I just wouldn't make it my primary strategy consumer behavior is changing so I trust that Google is going to make an adjustment but also as somebody who's using perplexity a lot and some of these other you know things as a search engine like I don't know how I'm going to go back to Google in its current form right and that's just me as a consumer searching it's the same thing you know when you're looking at like the for me I I'm always wanting to teach myself to look at where the distribution is happening right I believe very early on that the distribution was going to change from decks and Yellow Pages to Google I could see that it was very clear to me that this is just an easier way for the end consumer to operate right so to me like I've always tried to be on the Forefront of that like anywhere that I went and so to me when I'm looking at this it's like it's pretty obvious to me that it's easier for the end consumer to have somebody like perplexity right doing my search queries for me so if my Prim primary way of acquiring customers with Affiliates is through SEO blogs that rely primarily on Google I think that that's going to be something that I would look at do you think people going to change that that search is going to evolve to where in the past it was more keyword-based and now it's more intent or question based I would think so I mean I feel like that's how it's going now right um but for me like when I'm talking to my clients I'm trying to help them hedge their bets you know it's even like Tik Tok it's like you know clickbank's been a client of mine for years some of the top offer owners on ClickBank I've helped them hire their teams train their teams or I worked for them um as an affiliate agency and I would be very concerned right now about Tik Tok like very concerned the distribution channel is going to Tik Tok right and so I think some of the things that they're going to have to do maybe not ClickBank in particular but any network like that they're going to have to start just being incredibly aggressive they should start lifting the restrictions for Affiliates to be on there because it's going to be very hard for them the distribution and the attention is going to Tik Tok right now for a lot of these offers particularly neutral offers right so in order to be competitive either you need to figure out how to get your offers on there because that's where the distribution's going you know you can still keep it on Digi or ClickBank and then make those offers even more aggressive and less focus on compliance because that's that's going to be your alternative you know so I just I think that's that's something that I try to train myself on is like really looking at Trends and um you know also not putting all my eggs in one basket right just to kind of to look at that and just to acknowledge what's really happening you know what's really happening is that Tik Tok has a hold and a grip you know of attention I'm not even on Tik Tok I feel I'm not on there I don't need another thing to be sucked into uh but we have a lot of clients that make a lot of money through Tik Tock um through Tik Tok affiliate and through doing that and it's and it has an even added benefit of that halo effect on Amazon because Tik Talk Shop you know doesn't have the credibility that Amazon does and you know even Ryan Ryan was talking about this I don't know if he said it at you at capitalism.com but he said it at my event at four rooms multiple times is he's seeing a halo effect of one sale on Tik Tok which is five sales on Amazon because people are just more comfortable ordering through that right so I goes away who's going to step into their place because of the legal stuff do you think there's someone out there that is in your that might be able to take their place Shi I don't I don't think it's going to go away there's way too much money there's way too much money involved um you know I don't think it'll go away could it be butchered and maybe that algorithm changeed do I think it's a danger to America absolutely like they have so much information on Americans and like it's crazy to think that the Chinese government is not listening or using that you know it's in their terms of you know it's in their like policies in general as a country that you know the Communist Party can come in and and ask these companies for stuff right it's not like here so I mean it would be crazy to think that they're not doing that do I think they're listening to everybody no I think they're probably listening to key you know key thought leaders are important people far more important than you and I you know so for that reason from a a you know it's another reason to head your buts not to just put everything and go all into Tik Tok I think just for anyone listening I still want to repeat what I said before which is like get really good at one type of affiliate partnership inside of your program before you go on to the next right because I don't want them just spread thin and trying anything I want them getting serious like and looking at their program and being like is my current program competitive is it going to attract the type of Affiliates I want to work with or are there changes that I need to make for example people will come to me like I want to work with influencers I'm like great well all you have is email creative and you don't have a tracking that does like discount codes right so how are you going to work with them you don't have any assets that they need you don't have the right tracking that they need so I hear that you want to do that you know and these are the changes you need to make before you do that right and have we utilized what we currently have at the highest degree have we gotten all the email Affiliates that we possibly can before we start moving and transitioning into this next thing because it sounds cool and do our actual assets support that type of of that switch do our company support that type of switch like if you never want to prepay for anything and you don't have a budget then you shouldn't be working with them because you need to be convincing people that will work with you on all Commission right and a lot of the higher level people they want a hybrid they want a flat fee to create the content and then they want a percentage so unless you're willing to do that you know perhaps you shouldn't consider going into that that realm I've uh I've talked to a lot of entrepreneurs a lot of uh d2c companies Amazon sellers and the dtc's uh company the sellers there they get it a lot more than the Amazon sellers but very few are using affiliates properly or even using Affiliates and you know you got these shows like affiliate world and it's an Amazon sellers looking like a deer in the headlights they have never heard of it there's no you what do I need Affiliates for uh yes we're talking about creators and influencers but they don't understand it and I'm just wondering how long is it going to take before you were talking about you know three components I don't know about you Kevin but I really only see two components out of that three that most sellers are using yeah I mean you have that coming now with in the Amazon space that's where we come from uh Norman and I come from that space and this is not an Amazon show but we come from that space and we have our own podcast in that space lunch with Norm or or Am Pm if you want to listen to that those listening but there is some coming with Levant and stack influence and um you know there's several that are popping up that are seeing this opportunity to to bridge them together because a lot of these big Affiliates they're inated uh with with request and they're like I can't deal with all this uh who do I go with and so there's there's a leverage opportunity there uh and so you're seeing a lot of that pop up plus with Amazon giving the 10% referral bonus for anything that comes in from outside traffic um so I think you're starting to see some of that understanding and there's enough new people coming into that space But I think what a lot of people don't understand is I'll hear someone say I tried affiliate marketing it didn't work uh I tried Levant I tried say thatu and it didn't work and I think that's a for a number of reasons one is maybe you got a product there's been there's been a hundred other weighted baby blankets have come through and I just don't want another weighted blanket blanket even if it's free um maybe you're not offering enough on the affiliate commission not worth a while maybe they don't believe in the product maybe you don't have like we talked about on a podcast a couple weeks ago Norm where the the in the influencer that we saw at the the party that was like I'm not going to do this for you because it's not going to work the the brand doesn't understand what it actually takes so when it comes to find Amber when it comes to looking for Affiliates some people think they cast a wide net and they like we need a thousand of them we're just going to reach out and blast out there others are like like Joe uh Josh snow from snow is like I'm just going to cultivate 50 or 55 I'm G find really good guys weed them out this is going to be my core Army uh how do you actually some people look at numbers they're like how many oh this one's got 10 million followers uh and that's what they look for others like no I don't care if they got a th followers but the engagement is 30% that's better than the 10 million followers that only had 17 comments on the his last post how do you go about finding the right match for your brand whether that's a physical product or a digital asset or whatever you may be selling what's what are some strategies behind that and thinking that people need to think yeah I mean I always encourage my clients to flip things on their head and instead of thinking about uh how you know how can we find these people it's why would they care what is it about your program that makes it a standout like you said there's 50 different weighted baby blankets so really figuring it out one of the biggest things that I see with Amazon sellers is they just don't offer enough so like for example you're gonna come give me 10% of your $50 product I don't get up out of bed for that on a regular day but you would spend $50 to acquire that customer on Facebook so why are you not giving the affiliate $50 particularly if you have like subscription or monthly recurring or a good lifetime customer value and that's always the first thing that I tell them I'm like give them some reason to say yes to being your all commmission salesperson because they're not going to do it you're going to really struggle at that level like it has to be interesting it has to be compelling and if you're going to pay Zuck $50 why are you not going to pay somebody you're going to look into the eyes and see at a conference or like do things with it doesn't make any sense to me right I see a lot of people coming to me they want a channel that's going to be less okay well here's where it's going to be less for you like pay them what you're paying to acquire everywhere else and I guarantee you nine times out of 10 the conversion rate is going to be better because coming from a trusted source and usually the stick rate will be longer if you have them on some sort of continuity because coming from a trusted Source really what makes this work is it's a transfer of trust you know you guys have me on this podcast you saw me speak somewhere you liked me you trust me to come on to your podcast you are I'm taking the the brand and the trust of both of you and marketing Misfits podcast and it's coming on to me it's a halo effect of that I get to speak to your whole audience now right so I think that's a really important thing to understand that when you're working with these creators or these bloggers they have trust built with their audience that's the reason why typically the conversion rate is significantly better so even if you paid the exact same amount that your paining is luck you're actually you're going to end up backing out better and a lot of times you're going to pay a little less than you would pay to acquire on some of these paid media channels I just think that from the jump people are like I only want to pay 10% it's like okay well you're paying a lot more other places to acquire them so I don't understand like why we're thinking this way so I think first and foremost it's am I building something that's competitive on their own if I was looking at this and I would be like oh wow that's generous like I'll totally try this out conversion rate looks good the product looks good payment looks good you know or I see people you know shooting themselves in the foot and they're pay Affiliates 90 days later it's like what are you doing like you have to have something that's competitive right like you also have to have good customer service one of the reasons why a lot of this doesn't work for people is number one they don't build a program that's actually competitive they're like way below industry best practice right like for example like if I connect other people if I'm not a good fit as an agency or as a consultant and I send it somewhere else to someone I vetted and I trust and they're not paying the standard 10% referral fee why am I going to do that I just talk to somebody who does great work that wants to give five I'm not going to do that why why would I do all this work for you to close a client and bring it over and you're going to give me less than industry best standard I'm not doing it I don't care how good you are you know raise your price or treat me differently because I'm going to bring a lot of business right so to me at the end of the day it's number one what are we building and why are we building it it can't just be I want to build it so I have a stable leg in my business and I'm going to build something that's not competitive the next issue is the people you know I see a lot of people like we tried it like who did it oh my EA my VA scraped a bunch of stuff okay this is a if if you told me that you wanted to be number one on YouTube in your category next year you would buy the books you would hire a mentor you would understand you have to do the thumbnails You' understand you have to get on camera and create a bunch of different videos you would be studying the algorithm like anything else this is a people-based business the people are part of the algorithm right so first you have to get the program right then you have to get the people in the driver seat right who's pushing this forward every single day because if you don't have that of course it's going to be like we don't even know if it's worth it or not right and so that's an important piece just as the piece of who's externally working with us who are the Affiliates if you don't have somebody who's going to be high touch talking to these people that have 300 people a day in their inbox asking them to promote them then then what's happening here right because you're not going to get good results and then the last part that's always broken in most people's businesses when it comes to an affiliate program is an actual process like I love Josh Snow's perspective that's my perspective because guess what if I have a thousand Affiliates on average 100 will be active if I'm lucky and out that 120 will make any meaningful difference if I'm lucky and so what's going to happen is the other you know 980 Affiliates are going to bother me with how do I make a link what do I do I need my $50 in my sale like I don't need to talk to those people I want to talk to people who are good at being Affiliates because I don't need to train them and they have the audience and they they understand right so like for me you can build a seven figureure eight figureure even nine figure affiliate Channel inside your business I see it every single day if you have a really good program you have really good products and you have people in the driver's seat that are responsive and always on top of it you're optimizing your offer you're bringing out new creatives new hook ideas you're willing to have a budget you know and and that's what I see working um not like I'm half in half out because I always say like okay great well if that's how you are then that's how all your relationships are that's how all the things that you're doing is it's half in half out so you're going to get exactly what you expect you're going to get half in half off results and I don't know how to help you unless you tell me I'm going to commit to changing it and I'm going to actually do the work because it's not going to just fall on your lap just like your business just like your relationship just like all the things you're doing if you don't devote time for it and you actually have a strategy and a structure and Cadence kpis and accountability it's not going to work I think there's a lot of sellers too Brands too that don't understand what it actually takes to develop what exactly what you just said they they are expecting immediate gratification oh give me this influencer they just went viral uh they got a million views on the last video so I'll pay you a couple Grand and I'll give you 10% go do that for me um so you talk about talk about that a little bit yeah I mean I see that every single day you know and working with clients you know one of the first things that everybody wants is I want everyone to promote me and I don't want to promote anyone back and I'm like okay you and everybody else right you and every other person so that can be true if you have the best program in your niche in the industry it's the most competitive pays the fastest pays the most right you have the most responsive team you have all the types of assets they could ever want and need you have proven stuff you don't just test it on your Affiliates you actually spend some money testing internally testing on paid before you roll stuff out you have good communication with them if all of that is true then you can be the one that gets all the oneway traffic if that is not true then you need to start thinking about how to play nice in the sandbox with other people that you know like in trust and respect that have complimentary offers to you you know like for example if you do like let's say that you do I don't know red light therapy you know on Amazon and you're selling red lights okay great well if people are wanting to get red lights they're probably also wanting other things maybe you can partner with a sauna company sauna red light maybe you can partner with a coal punch company right that have similar audiences so like kind of get out of your own way and start thinking about people that have that Halo effect that have that audience that I can partner with that I am willing to cross promote because that cross promotion is a very good leverage tool you know that you can use until you have the proven program in the category when you start having the the King of the Hill offer that's when you can start people start coming to you you can start being more picky but then if you also tell me I want everything went away on performance test my unproven offers on everybody else's dime and I'm not willing to put money into it and do prepays or drops or whatever then okay well now we've lost all the leverage points right you don't want to play nice with other people you're not willing to do cross promotions you don't want to pay you have an unproven offer you want to pay a little tiny bit you know then I would tell you no don't do it don't do it because it's going to be a total waste of your time and then if you don't have anybody who has Hands On The Range to do it for you then don't do it you know like I think that's it's a hard thing for people to hear because they get shiny objects in but it is a channel like any other you know if you came to you're like I put up one Facebook ad and my VA did it from the Philippines and we got shut down so like Facebook ads are not for me like okay you you get exactly what you think you're going to get right those are the types of results you're going to get so you know that's something that you have to take seriously yeah lack of learning but also a lot of people don't understand this is a job you know it just why why should I what should I pay that much you know I Kevin you hit it on the head when it was that 10% I mean people are so underpaying and they don't understand this so underpay it's a job and you and the other thing that uh I hate this is probably going down a different rabbit hole but we'll get out of it really quickly but just not paying taking the Creator's work or the influencers work and then using it as their own and not getting the agreements where they can use it not off the affiliate link okay bypassing the affiliate link and putting it on YouTube or wherever and you don't think that that's deserving for the affiliate sometimes people are just ignorant they don't understand that some maybe not but um yeah that's another part of this uh I say this almost every episode also managing expectations uh maybe the knowledge isn't out there so you know we have to um as the affiliate I'm a big systems person but understanding and expect uh managing expectations so both parties understand what really they're going to get out of it I agree with you so much there like it it's so important and that's why the human touch is so important like you can have amazing AI tools I wish I had the type of AI tools as an affiliate manager YouTu now to do a lot of the Outreach and you know write you know custom copy for your emails and all this stuff but that kind of belly to belly management where you're managing expectations and you're getting things down in writing you know and you're treating it like a real important business piece of the channel I think is like so important and it requires that human touch and that finesse to kind of drive that forward and in terms of like your exposure like I agree with you you definitely should be if you're going to use those types of assets on different channels like taking it from Tik Tok to YouTube you should have an agreement with that affiliate because you don't have the permission to use their likeness in that way unless you specifically ask for it and that's usually that bit more money for you to run it on other platforms um and you need to get that down in writing because what you don't want to do is have your affiliate manager or you say that verbally it's okay and then push comes to shove and they're like what are you doing you know like I'm I don't agree with that now you have an issue on your hands what what makes a good The Essence of a Good Affiliate affiliate for me anyone who makes a cash add ring baby that's what I care about that's what I care about for me someone who brings me customers my ideal Avatar cash register ring a cash register ring baby like for me at the end day like that's the thing I talk to teams all the time they're like tell me all these things you know that they're working on I'm like it's been five weeks and I see no sales yet like all this sounds great but none of this matters until we start seeing some sales and so what is do you use Affiliates just for Performance Marketing just it's all about the sale Performance vs. Awareness in Affiliate Marketing or do you use Affiliates for like topof the funnel awareness as well I feel like it's more of a mofu style funnel right middle funnel or like yeah you can have them to do kind of brand awareness and stuff but I think Building Strong Partnerships you know having Partnerships with people were like you are their chosen person of choice for the weighted baby blankets you are their choice in that and we can figure out how to like create a mo around you like we're doing you know things just for you custom lny Pages or custom promotion times for different holidays or anniversaries or whatever or you know sponsoring your email newsletter we're getting solos we're getting on your podcast we're sponsoring your podcast like just really building a Mot around the people that send a good amount of volume I think is really important I think that's something that a lot of people Miss yeah I would agree and back to your point on the the missions where you're talking about Norm the 10% I see this in Maximizing Affiliate Commissions the Amazon space so many people I I look at it as a launch she talked about the halo effect and you talked about the 10% uh if you look at if you're I'm launching a new product let's say on Amazon and I know that halo effect exists I'm going to give the affiliate 100% I mean when I go when I go Nobody Does this I don't understand it nobody nobody I don't get it either crazy how much Market I'm give here's what I would do I'd go into a service like stack influencer Lon or some say line up my Affiliates and say I'm going to have a competition because I'm launching this product on Amazon on on January 17th from the 17th to the 24th whoever sells the most in that I'm goingon to give you 100% of everything you sell in that period and I'm going to give someone a free iPad or a free Caribbean cruise or whatever it may be for whoever sells the most in that period get them to go out there just blast the product get get that halo effect going so I organically Rank and just get that ball rolling I don't know why anybody it baffles my mind that why am I one of the only people that does this Hey Kevin yeah thanks a lot you just gave away our secret sauce over at dragon fish well I'm not worried about that because nobody's doing nobody knows how to do it you know how to do it uh so I challenge anybody to go out there uh but it's it's crazy uh how much you said it relationships I mean undervaluing these Affiliates I mean I I think you made an important point and something that Norm in one of our companies we actually need to do we need a person that their job is The Power of Relationships nothing but relationships with it's not send the email here's the latest promotion uh we got something for New Year's at 35% off we got something for Valentine's at this off uh do you want to join the program here's a special way beyond that it's like call them up on their birthday call them become their buddy their friend their whatever what do you need from us to support you oh I saw you just post on Instagram um that you're you just had a newborn baby so you sent him a freaking gift of a weighted blanket no I'm just kidding whatever it is but give that Personal Touch that and don't just treat them as a number don't just treat them as like a a some Anonymous thing that's just sending you making the cash reg ring treat them as a human and I think that's a missing component now a quick word from our sponsor lavant Hey Kevin tell us a little bit about it that's right Amazon sellers do you want a sky rocket your sales and boost your organic rankings meet Levant Norman secret weapon for driving highquality external traffic straight to our Amazon storefronts using affiliate marketing that's right it's achieved through direct Partnerships with leading media Outlets like CNN wire cutter and BuzzFeed just to name a few as well as top Affiliates influencers bloggers and media buyers all in levant's Marketplace which is home to over 5,000 different 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L.I missfits that's get. lant Lev n.i missfits and book a call and you'll get up to 20% off levant's gold plan today that's get. l.m missfits 100% dude and I you know I have seen like the power of that like the power of Personal Stories and Business Lessons your relationships like I have two great examples like there's a very recognizable um supplement company in the space if I said their name you would know it incredibly CLE cre like clean brand like they are not direct response they're like Love Organic like highest quality ingredients um and they started out with kind Affiliates and then they just made the decision that they were done and to be honest they left kind of a train wreck behind them because they didn't do a lot of joint ventures that they said they were going to do and just like didn't keep their word and they were like yeah we're done doing Affiliates left right and they started doing millions and millions of dollars a month on Facebook um and in march20 off yeah paid ads and that was their number one customer acquisition Source they got kicked off and they did not get back on until April of 2023 and this is a company that had reps inside of meta no one could figure it out no one knew why they didn't make any it wasn't a claims issue it wasn't anything issue can't tell you exactly what it is but when I heard it I was like what that is so dumb it had something to do with a login so dumb they could not they hired so many people could not so then what they had to do is they had to go eat crow and they to go back to all those people that they forgot about and treated poorly and asked them to help most of them said you can go screw yourself I don't care like now need me know they had to do massive layoffs okay and then they figured out a podcast strategy so they started getting the face of the business on podcast and started sponsoring the podcast it worked out for them and then they built a multi- figure Channel with that and they figured out some other things but they really shrunk and then they Boomerang once they got back on in April 2023 so now they had that partnership Channel and they had this right and so that kind of thing they could have just come immediately there and maybe they didn't have to do layoffs they didn't have to do all that stuff and for me on a personal level you know um I lost my partner in November of 2019 and when she died by Suicide I just like I could not handle my life anymore and I shut down my Agency for a long time at that moment I was like I'm done and I needed some time off I had some of my affiliate partners and friends come in and step in and help me uh with that transition took some of my team members you know just like supported me so much and then when I was ready to come back to work work it was February of late February of 2020 and the way I got customers was from speaking on stage and so that was shut down and all of a sudden I was like I was literally at agora's offices the day Trump declared a national emergency and like I couldn't do that anymore I was there with them like every two weeks for years so like my primary clients and like all these other people that paid to see me oneon-one started doing layoffs started you everyone was scared right ended up being a Bo for us but like I didn't know that at the time and so I launched my first ever group coaching i' had never done that before we had only ever done like one to one belly to belly small high high-end custom consultations and like all of my affiliate partners because we had another business um in health doing keto offers recipe books and stuff they started promoting our keto offers and started sending all their teams and clients and Friends into our program and overnight we had 300 people enrolled into our virtual training and it saved our business it completely saved our business but if I hadn't have been working on this and maintaining my relationships and thinking through that you know and like training other teams and being congruent and and actually doing the work um of being a good partner myself I wouldn't have had that reaction right and it's a tale of two different types of companies right and it's like this is the kind of thing that that's nice if I'm going to be like sentimental for a moment it's nice to have other Founders and brands that are invested in My Success because I'm affiliate of theirs and to know that if something happens to my paid media you know that I have a cohort of people that are making money with me you know and for me and that I have that to rely on and I don't think a lot of people have that and it's one of the reasons why I'm passionate about what I do is because like I've felt the effects and I've seen it and it's not a matter of if you get kicked off of meta or if Google's algorithm changes or what have you it's when and so it gives you time to adapt to it and it gives you time to figure out how to keep monetizing on that on that channel am I going to say that Partnerships and Affiliates are going to replace your paid media no but they can be huge for you like I said I look behind seven eight nine figures a year just partners and I have many examples of that right so I think that's like the important thing is if you're listening is like that's the power of it but requires attention and it require it requires you thinking through you know what's the end benefit for these partners and how can I make sure to to build a mode around them and take good care of them because they will show up for you if you do that and that's one of the reasons you started this Mastermind you have your own like high level Mastermind now too right that so you're bringing in these people that like you said it's all it's relationships norm and I preach this on our Pulpit all the time uh about it's a relationships we go to events not to listen to someone on stage we go to events to to make the connections with the people in the audience and at dinners and at the bar and and and wherever and that that's where and yeah you sometimes get some good stuff off stage and you'll you'll get something but it's it's that it's it's it's in those relationships and when you you have a mastermind like you do that's like you said Ryan was at it and and you bring all these top level people together it's the sharing of knowledge it's the bonds you all talk the same language you all geek out on the same stuff and you don't get that anywhere else and by creating that it's the it's magical the power that can have no matter what the cost whether it's $1,000 a year or $50,000 a year I'm in a $30,000 a year Mastermind and it's worth every penny uh you know it just depends on not everybody could afford that like I for the longest time I was like I'm not going to pay that kind of money to be in a mastermind that's crazy but now that I've done it I don't want to get out of it uh so can what did how did you come to create your your group and what what do you guys do and and can you talk about that a little bit yeah of course thanks for asking it's that's like the thing that I like The Four Rooms Mastermind love most doing right now um outside of of Partnerships and and working with a few clients on that um you know like I Shar with you I had a huge loss um you know now it's crazy it's like five years ago it's like so nuts uh to think about it and um you know before that I was uh really sick and I ended up running myself from the ground cuz I was like a new entrepreneur right and I was like everything on the altar of success I remember being like if I could make $50,000 a year like I person I know right then you start hanging out all these like wait a minute some people are making that in a day this is crazy you know like what is happening and um you know I I modeled myself after you know just driving so hard and it being all about my financial success and when I ended up needing surgery and I lost you know my my partner um you know I just realized like I do anything to get get that time back and what am I doing like if everything is about money and it's not about you know I'm attaching my value to the size of my business you know it was it was a very eye opening to realize like wow I'm financially more successful than I ever thought I would be and I'm you know covering my grandma's morgage and doing all these things but I don't talk to her because I'm so freaking busy you know and so I had a realization then I was like you know I I'm in a lot of the other groups like you Kevin like you know I've been in a lot of of of the masterminds and they've been incredibly valuable to me and I've loved them and I've got a great Roi but I was like I just want to build something different where um you know it's about something other than just money and I know that's a really hard thing for a business Mastermind because um the reality of it is is that everyone mostly is going to to go in there so they can get a financial Roi so the way that we ensure that is curation so um four rooms is based on an Indian prover that I found um when I was recovering from surgery it talks about an four rooms within us an emotional mental physical and spiritual room how important it is to go into every room with regularity or these rooms start to atrophy and die and that's when I realized I'm not taking care of myself at all I'm a total trash Panda I eat at bars and airplanes and I don't work out I have no PR spiritual practice ice like this is terrible and I started doing that I felt better and so when I launched four rooms I was like what does like a whole entrepreneur look like like what are their four rooms and just distilled it down to you know your health the health of your body the health of your mind the health your relationships you know your wealth which is your impact your legacy um you know your financial status in the sense that we're not just working just to acquire more we're actually looking for Financial Freedom um you know the scale of our business of course it is a business Mastermind and we have to do that that's why we build world class and then your relationship so the way that we ensure the ROI is won by the curation you cannot buy a ticket to my event ever you have to apply you have to be invited I have to see you in the wild like you guys have be great bits for us like I would love to invite you guys you know or you have to be nominated there's no other way to get in and we keep the curation of that group incredibly high and that's why we sell out every year and we have since the very beginning um and you know everyone told me that it was a dumb idea you know all my all my friends like Glenn ledwell and JJ Virgin and um you know anyone that runs a mashar was like this is stupid like you have you know Perry belter this is stupid look at Driven you know it's 5,000% guaranteed return and I'm like dude I love that and certainly you can deliver I'm sure on that promise because you are the guru but this is not about me this is about everyone else in this room if we keep the curation and the standard high with the mission of like abundance in every area I have a feeling will work and here we are going to year three of the master I I've had the master group for six years before that but it was named something else with a different partner um and we just evolved completely as four rooms and it's crazy because literally every single day I get a text from a ninef figure entrepreneur you know multi-a Entre figure entrepreneur and they want to be a part of it they want to come join they want to speak and they love the mission and you know we're seeing Lambos and record-breaking months and like all the stuff that we do in other groups that that's not the main focus like we're also talking about their marriage and about their identity and about you know when things gets hard you know we've walked people through suicidal ideations uh divorce death of a parent uh a Business Partnership implosion that got really ugly all kinds of stuff and we actually walk them through it and like that's important to me and so um you know for the little weird homeschool Kid that never felt like I fit in anywhere you know I just built like a a community of people and I didn't know people would say yes to that and uh they have and it's been such a privilege to be able to walk them through and to see them getting fantastic results like you look at I'll show you guys our MPS scores are off the charts they're like we just got a 94 we did a 95 the one before and a 92 the one before that like these are unheard of for people they tell us how much value they got fin financially it's crazy it's off the charts and I think that's because everything we do is based on you you do in-depth intake forms and from there we're picking who you're sitting next to at these events and why you're sitting next to and we're pairing you with experts to get a chance to work with them you know one onone like we're we're sourcing the experts based on the intake forms not just on who's cool and like known out there like I don't care about that I want to know who's actually getting the work done and what they're doing and I want I care that they're world class and they're going to hang out the whole time not just come in with their rolly bag and Pitch and get out like that's not what I'm building you know and so it's been a labor of love and it's it's growing like it we like doubled it you know this year in terms of the revenue and the type of people they're coming in and it just just keeps happening it's awesome awesome I have an event that sounds like a great Community a baby verion I have something that's a baby ver nothing near to what you're doing but I do something I have an event in the Amazon space called billion dollar seller Summit it's all about Amazon tactic oh I think Molly Mahone went that oh yeah she loved it she actually came for the that but she spoke at the second event that's what is the baby of what you're doing and it was called level up and so my idea was like I go to funnel hacking live I go to go high level I go to all these other events outside the Amazon space but most people in the Amazon space where norm and I are most known are that's they're in this Fishbowl and they they're not growing themselves as entrepreneurs and they're not growing themselves into other disciplines so I started an event called level up and the first one was last May in Hawaii Molly spoke at it and so I brought her out to speak and I had someone speaking on attractive character I had someone Perry Perry spoke doing AI so it's a mix I had someone speak on mindset I had someone speak on how they were abused as a child uh and how they had some of their most fortunate times when they were going through some of their roughest times in life so it's it's a mix and I've changed the name because of trademark reasons to elevate 360 I'm doing another one in April um in Iceland so I I do these so my I have I have the level of speak the speakers that are there everything from Jesse Elder uh I'm sure sure I'm sure you know to the guy who helped Mr Beast make uh uh make himself on YouTube to someone who has six kids owns 10 companies and on the board of 20 others and gets invited to lunch regularly with Peter teal just to for him to pick her brain and then I have a nutrition uh someone talking about nutrition and uh not nutrition not a nutritionist saying you need to go to this diet but more the psychology of eating is called intuitive eating and talking about that so it's a mix so it's not nearly the level you you do but and then norm and I we have something called Collective mind society that we've done two events and it's it's turning in we're about to turning into a much bigger uh deal than it has been well we started off like look we want to get people together that have a colle that think similar entrepreneurs there's just something about entrepreneurs whether you're doing Amazon or Facebook or affiliate there's just something different about you you're Misfit you're just you don't fit into the normal routine let's do something that's not presentations that's not uh you know someone trying to sell stuff or bringing their their suitcase in to pit you and then leave let's do a cool event and just bring a small group together so we did the first one at F1 in Austin in 2022 we rented a cabana $10,000 a day Cabana um we went to Marsh had VIP tickets at marshmallow that was wasn't that $100,000 $100,000,000 a day plus food and it was expensive uh and everybody paid you know it was not cheap we didn't make any money Norman actually lost money well I loved it we think so similar uh around this stuff and I I love meeting like-minded people because you know you're talking about Kevin like we talk a lot about that and you have worldclass people there I mean Molly's one of our members and I I admire her and respect her and love her and Jesse as well and you know all these people they're just world class what they do and um I also think it's just important to talk about those things because the six inches in between our ears are are are our biggest obstacle you know and we can talk tactics all day long and teach tactics all day long but there's so many people that won't take action on it and it has something to do with this you know want something to do with this their heart and their head is like you know they got their their gas and the brake pedal going at the same time they don't believe that they're worthy of success they're they're afraid of failure you know it's all these things those are the I think those are the challenges for entrepreneurs and we need to talk about them and so many entrepreneurs are such Workaholics and their you know their relationships are decaying and they keep thinking like oh well my wife or my husband's going to be fine you know I'm going to work so super hard for the next 10 years and sacrifice everything so that we can retire and it's like you look at the end and you don't have a marriage anymore you know and like that's not what we're designed to be is just workhorses and and not enjoy the rest of our lives and I think what you're doing is really important Kevin I think it's important work for for these entrepreneurs and they need to hear it because you can only hear so many tactics anyways you know what I mean like you're not going to do all of them we know that a bunch of events if you can get a couple huge nuggets and you work on that it's going to change make it worth your time the strangest thing is when you go I'm just going to go back to uh the collective mind or what you're doing is that when you're not doing these set presentations and you've got a group of people who think alike we always say it's like sitting around a campfire and you just start talking usually you'll get more out of those conversations than what you would get out of the like traditional event you I don't know how many times I I know on our train trip Kev uh within the first couple of hours I'm looking like Lauren pibworth was there and she was telling me about um something I could do in travel I said Lauren you just saved me 20 grand it just was coming up you know it was but these are the things that I love is just you know not okay it doesn't have to be just grind grind grind grind grind you know right around friend talk a little bit of business when it comes up learn about life I can take that that's crazy too because the most relaxed people I know are the wealthiest and like the have the biggest businesses like literally because they're smart they put their money into Investments and they're you know they're figuring they want they want that freedom they might still be involved in their business but like they're the most relaxed they have the most time you know so they're doing something right you know I see my friends that are worth hundreds of millions of dollars and some billionaire you know that we know and spend time with like they're relaxed you know it's not just because they have a bunch of people working for them it's their mindset you know and and like I think that's a really powerful thing for me because I'm I'm watching I'm like man my business nowhere near because I'm way more stress I way more my play I have way more calls you know like there's something here right that I need to work on being around people um with that type type of mentality it just teaches me a lot I think some of that's when you hit a certain point whether that it's diff the number is different for everybody then you don't have to worry about we're still in that if you're in that middle stage we're still like grinding we're still like trying to get that 50 million or 100 million in the bank so we can live off a 4% interest per year and maintain our lifestyle or increase our lifestyle versus they've hit that they're like okay now they realize some of them still want to go out and do things that that that's in their blood like I need another challenge I need another challenge other ones get depressed sometimes when you have a big exit like that they're like what do I do now I'm I I'm bored I'm depressed and and causes issues but the Smart Ones like you said they realize the most valuable asset in the world is not money it's time and you said it earlier about with your grandmother not being paying her rent but not being able to talk with her uh or see her um it's time and that's where a lot of I think entrepreneurs get caught up is time just flies by because you're doing what you love but you're also ignoring what you love damn so true Hey Kevin King and Norm ferar here if you've been enjoying this episode of marketing Misfits thanks for listening this far continue listening we got some more valuable stuff coming up be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify make sure you subscribe to our Channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of the marketing Misfits have you subscribe jet Norm well this is an old guy alert should I subscribe to my own podcast yeah but what if you forget to show up one time it's just me on here you're not going to know what I say I'll I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair too we'll just you can go back and forth with one another yikes but that being said don't forget to subscribe share it oh and if you really like this content somewhere up there there's a banner click on it and you'll go to another episode of the marketing Misfits make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like [Music] Norm so true dude wise I love that I I got a chance to dive deep with you on this stuff because I think it's just so important the work that we're doing to to bring this to entrepreneurs lives because I think they're just the best people you know they care so much they're such hard drivers and just a reminder that it's not their value is not tied to the size of their business or the Enterprise value of their business you know they're innately valuable as they areh and they're they're Misfits The Misfits that don't march by what society says you should do this is society says you do this this this and this and I'm like screw that I'm going to do what I want this this this and this and that's what entrepreneurship uh and gives you it gives you that freedom uh to do to march to your own drummer and I think that's there's nothing more valuable more valuable than that and by building an affiliate Army to do an to do that for you even better even better dude it feels good to have a bunch of soldiers out there for you all right yeah it does it feels good I want especially when they're fighting with swords and not like sticks exactly exactly so Amber want to reach out to you find out more about you uh or find out about the master or you got to be invited sorry everybody you can't find you got to be invited you can apply you can apply so if they want apply to The Mastermind or if they want to reach out to you I know you have an agency that helps people do a lot of this stuff what's the best ways uh to do all that what's the yellow page directory ad say yeah so um thank you for asking so if you want to be a part of for rooms the uh The Mastermind for 78 n figure Founders then four rooms four fully spelled out uh for roomsmaster mind.com you can email me directly Amber at for roomsmaster mind.com um if you and you two are invited but anyone listening anyone listening that school can apply um if you meet those metrics uh if you're someone that we want to have dinner with and and really grow with and invest into because that's really what it is it's like I'm cautious because I'm investing my rod decks and you know my best clients and my best friends you know my best affiliate Partners my my mentors right that's all who's in there um and then if you want help growing and reaching your Revenue with with Partnerships uh you know East Fifth Avenue is my company uh that we've trained over 25 200 companies and uh we can help you hire an affiliate manager or optimize your program or you know make intros kind of all that so if that's something that you want then you know Amber East fith avenue.com it's my email we do check it um you know I always feel like if someone's going to take the time to listen to me talk for an hour or so and then they spent a lot of time with me and they want to email me then I'm I'm happy to have them contact me and see if I can help awesome all right very good now I do have to ask you a question at the end of every podcast we always ask our Misfit if they know a misfit yeah so many I feel like uh do you know do you know Nate Ginsburg sure okay like he would be interesting because he does a lot of work with Amazon people I don't know if that's their primary one on here but like dude I have so many I mean I've got precious metals I got aora I've got mly Pitman I got like you know any of these peeps just I'm sure you know a lot of them too what about Stephen eel do you know him what he's doing with truly Home Free oh I love Guy Stephen eel um started uh truly home truly Home Free and it's a suite of like non-toxic amazing like products for every product that he sells um he helps a blind wom in Jamaica this guy's just like amazing if you want to talk SEO David fineberg is a genius uh with digital he's got some really interesting stuff um you know I've got contacts I'm sure you do too with like you know Kevin Richards from clickfunnels or you know Kelly household or or any of those guys there's some just like really interesting um really interesting people that I have in my community that I could connect you to um someone that has a really interesting affiliate model that you might want to like consider do you know the guys from sphere rocket VA no super cool kids okay so they're like in their early 30s late 20s and they started their VA company uh in 2020 and they're already at over 60 million a year super interesting affiliate model I've never seen so Stephen he's got some really interesting stuff there too very good okay Amber we're gonna remove you but we'll come right back and talk to you thanks sounds good thank you thanks guys that was good stuff always always cool to talk to cool people that are doing good things uh and Amber is one of those people you can just tell she's she's good people and just is willing to share just take a look we asked for one Misfit and we've cut we gotoll de like like damn we gotta like spin the wheel see who see who comes on no that that's awesome and it's always good stuff here as you can see if you listen if you're a regular listener to the marketing Misfits we cover everything uh it's from from affiliate marketing to branding to cpg to um uh whatever I mean it's AI to we've covered it all and if you haven't listened to we started this podcast norm and I as most of you know we have our own podcast that we've been doing for years in the Amazon space it's all Amazon focus this podcast is not Amazon focus but if you want to check those out it's lunch with norm and amm podcast but go back to marketing Misfits we started this at the end of April of 2024 and we have not missed a single uh week one that might have been one week I think we had a technical problem but other that was because of Kelsey one one week uh if you're listening Kelsey you're fired that's that's that's not true Kel that's not true no just kidding uh there's one week we had a technical issue but other than that every single week all the way back to Katie Wells who was the very first one who's actually going to be at Elevate 360 that's the woman who has the six kids 10 businesses 20 boards and that's the type of guest and you can see by Amber so if you just are checking us out for the first time go back on our YouTube channel go back in your Spotify or apple and listen to some of the listen to some of their episodes because there's some really good stuff or you can just go to marketing Misfits is it.co or.com no I I can't I'm getting old you said uh we started this in April right I did and how many episodes have we done uh quite a few it is 40 or something so you should know it's doco that's right it's. Co so am marketing misfits.com or if you like this episode with Amber and you know someone that would benefit by listening forward it to her don't just tell them about it forward the link you can actually forward that in apple or Spotify or on YouTube and get them to come in and and join us as a misfit and if you're looking for more information on some some of the stuff that Norm and I do like Collective mind Society you can go to Collective mind society.com and get information on on that but we'll be back again next Tuesday I think next Tuesday right nor is is is you got it next Tuesday Tuesday uh with another episode of the marketing Misfits All right everybody until next Tuesday see you later [Music]