Why Decision Speed Is the New Marketing Superpower

Why Decision Speed Is the New Marketing Superpower Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Chew on This. Today's a special episode brought to you by Klaviyo and we have Allison who is the director of e-commerce at Tibi and she's gonna be breaking down how a brand that's been around for 30 plus years has been scaling and growing both on the e-commerce side, the retail side and So Allison, first of all, thank you so much for taking the time to come out here to our studio to be able to chat with us and our audience on what it takes to build a brand like Tibi and also for the few people that may not know you, if you don't mind giving a little bit of background on your end. Sure. Speaker 2: So I'm Allison Gagnon. I have I've been at Tibi for a little over five years now. My whole career has been in e-commerce. Even back when I was part-time in college, I managed a boutique in Richmond's small website on old school Magento and really have continued up through then. As I was more junior, very siloed roles, but the past almost Eight years have been growing associate manager. I started at Tibia as a manager and now I'm the director of e-commerce. So it's been a journey. Speaker 1: Before we dive in, a quick word about today's sponsor, Klaviyo. In 2025, retention isn't optional. It's the growth engine for any brand that's serious about scale. That's why at Alvi we use Klaviyo for all of our email and SMS marketing needs and to know what our customer are talking about. We're not just using Klaviyo to blast everyone the same promo code, but to make sure our message actually reaches the right people at the right time based on real customer behavior. Klaviyo combines real-time customer insights with AI to help us design smarter flows, create dynamic segments, and personalize every touchpoint based on what our customers are actually doing. It saves us time and helps us drive way more repeat business. Want to know more about your customer than ever before? Go to klaviyo.com slash chew on this to learn how. Now, let's get back to the episode. You know, it's interesting. I think people who start at brands or work at brands when the lockdown time happened, I think have a totally different read and approach on business than people who have maybe gone through the ebbs and flows of the business and through generations and whatnot. So, I mean, I'd love to kind of just dive there real quick. You know, in terms of being able to come in at a time where there's so much uncertainty, every day is different, a lot of things are changing. What was kind of like your first go at it? Especially with, you know, maybe you can also give a little bit of background on Tibi's growth so far, but like, what was kind of your first go at, hey, here's what I need to go and work on and fix? Because a lot of it felt like during that time, everything had to be fixed. Speaker 2: Totally. And at Tibi, you know, they were such a wholesale business in the beginning, 30 years. And towards maybe six years ago, they started pivoting a little bit in their design of it. And it was shifting the customer focus, their wholesale partners. But when lockdown happened, DTC was the priority. So how do you make a maybe 50-50 wholesale DTC business? How do you survive on that? And very quickly, we were able to pivot and get customers on the site, engaging on the site. We brought out some archive stuff that we sold online because there was fulfillment problems. Everything was stuck in their various countries. Now we are 75% D to C with 80% of that 75% being econ. So it's been a journey just getting customers, you know, Amy Smilovic, the founder, creative director, she's so hands-on. She just started going on Instagram Live and speaking directly to the customers. You remember those days when every single person was live? Hers stuck. We have made it a whole franchise called Style Class. We have been doing really on Instagram only, but recently we have turned it into a live shopping on tibi.com. So you can buy the products that she's talking about literally in that moment. So we kind of took that lockdown time and was like, what can we do that nobody else is doing and how does it work for us? Speaker 1: That's incredible. Speaker 3: I mean, like everybody was on Zoom, right? Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Speaker 3: I mean, it makes sense why you would, you know, kind of capitalize on that. One thing that you mentioned, right, was, you know, at the time you had to kind of change direction, right? Now, I'm very curious because people will kind of get emotional about these decisions and they're like, oh, well, I think we have to do this or I think we have to do that. You know, it may not be the right call, right? How are you guys making those decisions based on data, right? What was the data saying? Where were you looking for the data? And then how are you kind of implementing that into that and that change? Speaker 2: Absolutely. So we were looking at when it came to pivoting from the wholesale as like the main point of view for the company, it was what partners do we want to work with that So, you know, we are a small founder-led company. We pivoted to mostly specialty stores. We broke out of – there's no department stores for Tibi anymore. We are on, of course, some of the major online players, but they don't have the full collection like they used to. So, to get the whole collection, you have to come to Tibi.com or one of our two boutiques. We're selling much more of a mindset, the creative pragmatist mindset. So we're speaking to the highly creative, highly pragmatic people and how can we fulfill your wardrobe to fit your life, but that's also what we wanted to do with our partners. We wanted, if we're in a store, it has to make sense for us to be in that store too. So we also partner with them. If we're sold out on e-comm on something, we're gonna shout out one of our specialty stores and be like, hey, Call Max in, I think he has some pop-ups right now in Colorado, and it's a partnership across everybody now, which is great. Speaker 3: I'm actually really interested because there's there's brands out there who may see like partnering with different retailers or specialty stores and think oh, well, they're interested. I have to be in there, right? But sometimes it may not be the right fit or make any sense altogether, right? How are you guys, you know, I guess figuring out which specialty stores and which retailers actually make sense for you guys? Speaker 2: Of course, I'm a little bit less removed from wholesale, but I know primarily it's Are we connecting with the owners of the stores? Can Amy? Amy travels the country with some of our wholesale account executives and the stylists. Does appointments there and so it's can it become this more like family relationship than just here's some product sell it and it's benefited everybody. Speaker 3: And then are you guys doing a lot of analysis into your actual customers to see you know, okay Well, maybe there's a certain segment of people that may shop here or over here, right? I'm curious how you're using customer data to actually back those decisions. Speaker 2: For sure. So we will look at especially, you know, Where's our traffic coming from? Who's on our email list? Are they engaging with our emails? Email is a huge channel for us still. I know some people, our email is dead. We are so far from that. It's so alive for us. And we send our customer data to the wholesale representatives and they're kind of going through, Also, what are they buying from us? What does it make sense putting in there? Especially if we're doing a pop-up, we'll make sure maybe we'll look at the sizing of the customers too. We can get that granular. So it's a really nice partnership across the different departments. Speaker 3: I love that. Speaker 1: To go deeper into this customer piece, I love that you guys are so granular with it and also it is rare to hear companies that say email's not dead for us. I think you guys are also Klaviyo customers, which is awesome. Talk a little bit about when you look at a brand that has been around for some time, segmenting almost feels like a little bit of a nuance. It almost feels a little bit like How do you kind of approach it every single time or how do you think about it differently from time to time because you start to get into these larger buckets that get filled up and then you're like, oh, well, I got to rethink about how to slice this, right? So I'm curious, especially when it comes to a brand like yours, which has so many style variations, so many different reasons someone would buy it, right? Whereas like, you know, not to simplify supplements, but it's like, You came here for hair, skin, or nails with collagen, or you came here to lose weight. You can slice it up to a little bit more of a black and white zone, whereas you could be coming here for a summer style, for a bridesmaid event that you're having, and that's the only reason you'll shop with us. I'm curious, how do you guys think about just segmenting in general? I know it's a big question. Speaker 2: For sure. Our campaign emails, which is the brand message we are sending out based on Not just the season, but where we're going as a company. That is less segmented. We are speaking to those recently signed up for newsletter, engaged on the site, engaged with their newsletters. So we want everybody to hear our message, especially on, you know, the new collection. Amy writes a letter on the launch. So we just had fall. She wrote a long letter that explained how we got to where we got to. So campaigns are really kind of billboardy for us, but still do amazing. When we get into segmenting, we're looking more at trigger flows. So on your behavior, and we're doing it sometimes based on what you buy. Seven days after it delivers, we're going to send you an email of more products that customers like you who also bought that product, what are they buying next? And that's been amazing. We're also doing, you know, with the RFM analysis, we're having triggers the second your RFM kind of category changes. Instead of, we used to do win-backs that were maybe just you haven't purchased in 65 days. But that's okay because maybe you come once every time we launch and you place a big order and that's good. Right now we want to look at the second you're changing within those categories. Has your behavior changed? But we also speak, you know, I text the store managers. Like we're very, we're all close. We're working together. I'll be like, I haven't noticed this person on like placing an order with us. Have you spoken to them recently? They're like, oh, they're traveling. Like they'll come back. Don't worry. Speaker 3: That's cool. Speaker 2: So we also have that in us. You know, we know our top customers by name. They know us. They're emailing our generic customer service. But they're like, hey, Erica. They know exactly who they're talking to and we know them. And sometimes they're just sending us pictures of what they wore to a bridal shower or a graduation. So we're really in it and we're aware. We're broadly aware of what they're doing and why things are changing, but the triggers are when their true behavior is changing. Speaker 1: Wow. Speaker 3: I love that. That's crazy. This is like the first conversation that I think we've had about Somebody actually leveraging the RFM model versus like, hey, we sell something, it's typically consumed in 30 days, you know, day 31 I'm gonna send an email, right? But I'm actually very curious, obviously there's certain things where a customer will come back maybe once every six months, place a big order, right? Or maybe they'll come once a month and place a smaller order, right? What else are you guys looking at and how else are you guys bucketing customers? You don't see a lot of other brands Typically doing. Speaker 2: We also like to look especially are they purchasing mostly full price, mostly markdown. We only go on sale twice a year. So that also plays a factor. We have some top customers who are top sale customers. So as long as we see them when we break sale, that's great. So we monitor in that sense. But then I have some customers they're placing three to five orders a week. We're not exaggerating and we're monitoring them at a different scale. What are they buying? Also then, what is their return rate? And the better we can keep the return rate, if they're buying maybe two orders a week but their return rate's getting better, that's great too. Speaker 1: Wow. So you're kind of literally monitoring even just progress from purchase behavior. That's really, really interesting and also very impressive. Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker 2: We used to do it. We do our own analysis, of course, in Excel comparing multiple systems of information. But when Klaviyo came out with their RFM solution, I was like, I can use this so fast because the Excel, it's great. You can get so granular. I can look at. Speaker 1: So many pivots, yeah. Speaker 2: But getting it to scale and to action on, that was where getting the RFM segments into Klaviyo made a huge difference. Our flow performance, which we completely revamped once that existed, went up almost 40%. Speaker 3: Let's dive into that because that's really impressive. So obviously Klaviyo launched this new reporting, right? What was kind of like the first steps that you guys took to really understand what the data was telling you and how did you implement that? Speaker 1: For sure. Speaker 2: So to start, you know, you can put in your own inputs. So we put in like broadly close to the inputs we were making most of our pivots off of. So of course the spend frequency, but at the scale that made sense for us, we just kind of were like digesting all of the information first. And comparing it to what, is it close enough to what we were working with? And it was. So then it was, the Winbax was my first. Instead of targeting, again, when they just haven't come back in a while, I want to watch them change and do something with that. So that was the first rollout. Then it was, they also have the product analysis within the RFM. Then it was the post product flow that we came out with. And also just monitoring, you got this lovely chart and seeing how do we start July 1st this year compared to last year? Where do we see the biggest percent and change? Of course, we want their called champions to be. As big as it can be, but it's never going to be as big as it can be, but you have great customers in there. So as long as that's growing at a steady level, I feel great and getting them before they drop to needs attention at risk. We don't want them there. Speaker 3: This is so interesting because I feel like a lot of the marketers or email marketers will Typically look at like revenue per flow. They'll look at, you know, open rates. You haven't mentioned that once, which is amazing because it's like, it's, it's, it's not your typical analysis that people should be thinking about, right? So it sounds like outside of revenue, right? You're, you're literally trying to optimize for making customers more valuable to the business. And I think that's such a very interesting way of thinking. Speaker 2: Yeah. So, year over year, I mean, revenue is growing, customer count is growing, but 20% of our customers make up 80% of our business. So, even though... Speaker 3: I don't even know what that stat is for us. Speaker 1: Yeah, me neither. But that's crazy. Speaker 2: We have, like, they're loyal and we know once we got them to make that... Speaker 1: It's almost building the business for them. Speaker 2: Yeah, make that third purchase. They're in the fold. They're in the creative pragmatist mindset. Amy, we just reprinted her second edition of her book. So they're digesting also not just the clothes, but the principles of the brand. And once we get them there, they're in. So as revenue grows and as the customer account grows, Still being 20%, making up 80%. That customer count is also growing and they're really, really valuable. Speaker 3: Wow. Speaker 1: It's powerful. Speaker 3: So understanding what the actual LTV is and then optimizing for that by moving people from category to category. Speaker 2: Yep. Speaker 3: I love that. Speaker 1: I feel like you guys are probably also able to use a lot of these data points for even just guiding your top of funnel or acquisition efforts. Can you maybe touch on that and how you guys, because it almost doesn't look like you guys let retention sit in its own silo and acquisition be in its own silo. It almost feels like a blend. I'd love to unpack that a little bit of how you guys operate both. Speaker 2: For sure. So I manage both acquisition and retention. So I'm also watching how they're playing with each other. And of course, we have We have our paid ads based on if you've been on the site and whatnot, your behavior on the site, but then our targeting audience, we're doing it based off of a list of who we deem our best people. How do we just get more of these people and then grow them? So we're also, we're not looking for a million eyeballs and a million single purchases. We want them to want to be part of the brand, to buy from us season over season, full price or markdown. That is kind of the biggest focus is, you know, we can have a spike in traffic and everybody can place one order, but if they don't come back, it doesn't matter. Speaker 1: When we moved Obvi to Klaviyo earlier this year, we weren't just switching platforms. We needed a better overall system to manage email, SMS, and real-time customer insights to create long-lasting customer relationships, all under one roof. Since making the change, we've rebuilt our abandoned cart flows, created dynamic segments that tells us who's ready to buy again, And use predictive data to time our offers more effectively. The impact has been higher repeat purchase rates, better retention metrics, and even more control over how we grow our customer value. Retention isn't set-it-and-forget-it tactics anymore that used to work. It's a system that needs the right tools and infrastructure. For us, and for a lot of top brands out there, we know that's Klaviyo. If you want to turn retention into a growth engine go to klaviyo.com slash show on this to learn more Now let's get back to the episode in terms of like When you're looking at the customers that, let's say that aren't coming back, right? When you look at that cohort of the 80% of people, you know, that maybe are in that other side of it, how are you guys campaigning to them, right? Because some of it is like finding out why aren't you coming back. Maybe talk through a little bit of what are you doing to understand the knowledge of why they're not coming back and then how are you trying to get them over the hump? Speaker 2: Yeah, so, you know, we look at Are they not coming back because their first order was returned and they're gone? What was the return reason? It's ready to wear. Size and fit is always going to be top of mind for us. And we, of course, size too big, too small is forever going to be the top reason of clothing return. But how can we make it seamless? So maybe we can't get that person to come back, but how do we get the next person to exchange instead of just return and go away? We put up individual size charts for every product. Just doing that brought return rate down seven points. We recently launched You Can Exchange for Higher Lower Value different products that brought exchange rate up five points. So getting people to understand the product is also important and that comes from education. We put up videos on every PDP of people explaining the size and fits. Usually Amy and then we have Katara who's another stylist. Sometimes it's other stylists from the stores. So they're really talking about the product that you can't get from just a picture and PDP copy. We will reach out to some customers. Maybe they placed a really big order. Most of it came back. What happened there? We offer virtual appointments, so letting them know that this exists. They can do a try-on session. They've already made their order. It's come. Try it on with a stylist. Hear their opinion on it. So really kind of speaking to them and sometimes there's a product that is a one-time purchase. The book that came out by, I mean, we've sold thousands. It's an amazing book and our best customers all read it and digest it. There are people who have not come back who have purchased the book and we've kind of looked at it. We launched the second edition in December. Probably 10% of that was gifting. A husband vying for the wife, your friend, etc. Some just, they just want to read everything that Amy is writing, which is amazing. And we're kind of looking at them, great. They have a creative pragmatist mindset. Maybe they can't afford the clothes yet. Maybe something in that collection didn't speak to them. So we'll kind of target them with here are your fundamentals which is kind of our core collection. Build your base on this and that actually had a great success but then we've also done An LL Bean partnership where we did a boat in tow that we redesigned with a big leather belt, an extra strap, like it's great. Those customers had a higher return rate that were new to the brand and it's likely because it was a fashion product and not just a book. So also looking at how do these different kind of limited edition products affect retention rate too. Speaker 3: One thing that you mentioned was, you know, being able to tailor the experience on like, say, the website or the product page, right, to making sure, okay, well, you know, we have the videos on there, we have the size and charge specific to each product, right? I'm very curious, like, are you guys leveraging AI at all now with, you know, I've seen like some websites where it's just like, oh, upload a photo of you and it's like, you could style yourself, right? I'm very curious if you guys are seeing this kind of Change even even if it's maybe not on the website, but like just for your guys's sake of how are you guys leveraging AI, right? Speaker 2: AI is definitely top of mind not just for us. I know for every single person right now. We are exploring the best way it works for us because we are so human touch centered. I mean, We're like, you find me in customer service some days, you find Amy answering her DM. So how does that work best for us? I like AI as a first line of defense and kind of a final checkpoint at this point in time. We definitely have it for an initial live chat. Someone can say, I want to speak to a human and they will get us. We have trained it so deeply on our styling principles, how items fit. So it, it's great. Like I watch it answer some days and I'm like, Oh, you knew that correctly. We have explored kind of the try on, but ours has such an intent. We have pride ourself on intention of fit. Not just how you want it to fit. This is supposed to be oversized. Don't size up. So we are working on training the customer and how does that work with AI? We're not sure yet. So we are looking both internal AI options and external AI, but it's definitely top of mind right now. Speaker 1: I'm curious on, you know, going back a little bit on the customer piece. There's obviously this whole idea of people trying to use data to kind of predict the customer behavior and how a customer will potentially interact with the brand and even potential LTV of the customer. Some of this feels a little foreign to many people, including myself, which is like, you know, how much of it is kind of just, you know, really just vague determination of what could happen or versus like, is there ways that you guys have actually been able to predicting something, whether it's, hey, if we come out with these styles, we think it's gonna drive these customers to do this, this and this, and then have you validated that, you know, are you using like predictive data or predictive analytics in any way? Speaker 2: I think we, I would say we use it mostly as kind of, we're watching it for trends, but I wouldn't say it's dictating what we're doing or how we're marketing, but it's great to keep our eye on it. So, you know, those customers who maybe they start to fall off. When was their next predicted order rate? How can we talk to them sooner? But at the same time We feel so confident in how we are working with customers that going full on into the predictive analytics feels a little scary. Not scary, but not the right path at the moment. Speaker 1: Have you guys, and this is more on the campaign side, has there been a campaign where you didn't think it's going to do great or maybe We didn't assume that it'll be one of your best performing campaigns that did really well. We'd like to share some tactical tips on like, hey, here's some really cool campaign styles that you can do. Are there any ones that you can share from your experience? Speaker 2: Last year, we made a big shift into when we launched our winter holiday collection. So we typically launch it late October. We moved it up to September because it can also be used for gala season and not just holiday, but it's very holiday. It's the sequins. It's the party outfits. And we did a campaign, but we blended it with fall. So it was also, how can you wear it with what you already own and also wear it in this environment? And that did so well. We're pairing it back with, maybe it was like a great party top, but pairing it back with our pretty basic wide leg Stella pant. And how does that work? And once we started blending the collection, not for the whole marketing, but also more ways to wear, it did so well. It was our best winter collection that I've seen in the five years that I've been there. And we've started using that kind of go forward. Pairing it back to maybe the season that launched just before or our fundamentals that are evergreen and you'll always be able to find them. We pride ourselves on this past, present, future environment where everything you're buying now can be worn with what we made last year, five years ago, ten years ago. And we're always bringing it back in different ways, but letting customers know if your clothes aren't one and done, you can keep wearing them. And that's what we want you to do. That's why we're making less SKUs every season. So the campaign that just wore them together was amazing. Speaker 1: That's really cool. Speaker 3: Just in general, I love how like data focused you guys are and how you leverage it to actually carry out some of these campaigns. I'm very curious if there was a time where you carried out a campaign or an idea that went against the numbers and more so of like, here's what we want to do. It's maybe not, you know, maybe it's a little against the grain here, but I'm curious if that's ever happened. It sounds like it may not happen. Speaker 1: They're pretty perfect. Speaker 2: I mean, there's times where we have shot things very editorially styled, which is great in ads, in emails. But then maybe it's confusing the customer a little bit because they're like, wait, how am I wearing this shirt or this jacket? Speaker 1: Am I really gonna look like that? Speaker 2: Exactly. So we will sometimes do secondary campaigns that are a little bit more on the more commercial side. So like styling it more how you would wear it to work or dinner with your friends. So that kind of happens a little bit, especially we are a runway brand. So we have our runway in the February and September. Those are going to be the most styled visuals you will see. But over the course of the year and the selling season, we will pair it back. This is just how you can throw it on and look amazing. Here's how you can do it up a little bit more to get closer to that runway vibe. Speaker 3: Awesome. Speaker 1: First of all, you shared like incredible insights, especially on just like ways to think about a lot of just programming, a lot of the data piece and actually doing things with a lot more intention. Because I think sometimes we all have the tools, we all have the same Same tools as Klaviyo. We all have the same access, but I think the way many of us use it is more so like, how do I get this done the quickest way versus, you know, not the most effective. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: So thank you for that. I'd love to jump into a little bit more of our rapid fire round of questions more so about you and your interaction with the brand and everyday life. So we'll kick off with question one, which is, what's a lesson that's had the biggest impact on how you lead today? Speaker 2: How I lead? Trying not to do it all yourself really fast. I think leaning on your team members is so important and also slowing down a little bit. Even if something's urgent, of course you have to hit your deadlines, but take a minute to breathe and really absorb what are you trying to gain from this moment and How can you do it in the best way possible, but you need to take a minute before you do it. That's kind of how I feel. Speaker 3: How has your perspective on success changed over time? Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think similar to kind of the acquisition retention, it's not about getting as many people looking at what you're doing. You want them to really care and keep coming back and seeing the loyal customers kind of validate that, oh, you're doing the right thing. They love how you're executing the website and that's changed a lot for me over the years. Speaker 1: What's one habit that helps you show up as your best self? Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to put yourself first to be able to put your job first at the same time. You need to take your morning. Don't rush out of bed and rush to the office. It happens some days, but really going through your habits to get to the best version of yourself before you're working is so important. And honestly, getting a dog helped me do that even better because she has a lot of me. And then I'm like, oh, I can't just like roll out and show up. There's a lot that goes into it. Speaker 1: Get a dog. Speaker 2: Specifically a puppy. Speaker 1: That's awesome. Speaker 3: This one, I'm hoping for a good one. Is there a customer story that sticks out to you, either good or bad? Speaker 1: You know, give us both. Speaker 3: I feel like you have both. Speaker 2: I'll start with the bad and then I'll end on a good one. You know, I think it's very interesting how customers speak to brands. You know, they think that kind of you're just at their mercy. And I find it fascinating, especially in the state that we're in with tariffs and duties and taxes. And when customers, I don't think they understand that we are not the government deciding this. We're not. Speaker 1: We're here to help. Speaker 2: We're the middleman. But some customers, they're just not having it. And we have done our best. And there are customers that we can't satisfy because we're not the government to help them make their way through these moments. We provide them with all of the resources and it doesn't go very far sometimes. But yeah, you know, they get very upset and concerned about that. But then there's the customers that if you can just help them get their package on time for this huge event, they love you. And it's so nice to see and you're like, it kind of It tempers your mood when someone else is acting crazy, when someone else is so gracious for the little bit of help you could have provided. And again, I said earlier, we get pictures of people at their huge life events because we got them their package on time and it's awesome and seeing that happen is great. Speaker 1: It reminds me of one of the brands that was on the pod, Proof Wallets, and he had given the example where a customer had ordered something for Father's Day and the wife who had ordered it, the package, I think there was a storm or something and it wasn't going to reach on time and I think she had like saved a lot of money up and to buy this wallet as a gift and it was supposed to be the first Father's Day gift. And so the founder actually got on a plane to hand deliver the gift. But it just goes to show, even how you guys talk about your customers, it's almost like you guys would probably do almost anything you can within reason to be able to make it possible for your customer and make it you know something that your customer is super satisfied about. Speaker 2: We do want to. We will help in the best way we can. Like we're here for therapy sometimes. We're here to help. Sometimes we can and sometimes we can't. Speaker 1: What's one thing that you're really excited about when it comes to Tibi's next five years? Or the next two years or the next year. Whatever it may be. What is something that's like that's keeping you excited? Speaker 2: Yeah, so we just launched the live shopping. We just launched pre-order two weeks ago. All of these tech partners that we are looking to advance with, they help us do it in the way we want and that's really creative and pragmatic at the same time. So continuing to look for these gem of partners, you know, I found VideoWise who does our live shopping through a networking dinner. Speaker 1: I didn't know they do live shopping. Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's been great and how can we just find more of these. So really building our tech stack in a way that's really personable but not AI personalization is really what I've been focused on and has been exciting to get in the weeds of. Speaker 3: That's really cool. Love that. This has been incredible. I think the insights that you've given will definitely give our audience something to definitely chew on. But before we wrap up, we'd love one last final takeaway for brand owners or operators to take back and implement in their business starting today. What would that one thing be? Speaker 2: Know who you are as a brand and know who you want your best customers to be so you don't need to cater to everybody. But look at what you really want to double down on. We're looking at these high-powered women. A lot of C-suite just naturally gravitate towards Tibi. It's because they can walk into a room, still be very professional, but also really show their personality through their clothes. And the more you know that, the more you can speak to them in your marketing, in your day-to-day customer service. Speaker 3: if you want more from us follow us on twitter, follow us on instagram, follow us on tiktok and check out the website chewonthis.io.