Why Amazon Brands Are Starting to Use Meta Ads and Shopify

Why Amazon Brands Are Starting to Use Meta Ads and Shopify Speaker 1: I recently got this whiteboard. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: I've had whiteboards before. I have not had a whiteboard in about three years. It's a must do. Must do. I don't know what I was thinking for three years. I've reacquired a whiteboard. I've called it Mike's Magical Whiteboard of Possibilities. It's amazing. Do you have a whiteboard? Have you ever had a whiteboard next to your office? Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, no, not next to my office. Actually, last corporate job I had, I had a whiteboard in my office, but since I started working for myself, I haven't because I'm just not a whiteboard kind of guy. Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for coming back on the show, Sean. It's always an absolute pleasure. Love to hear your perspectives. It seems like you do really thoughtful considerations of your clients, the market, the industry, and you're able to gain a lot of perspective and the things that you like to talk about, and then also stay really close to the technical, which I feel like is very tricky to do. Do you intentionally do that? Do you plan days to not look at a spreadsheet or not look at the ads console, not look at Seller Central and just sort of think And conversely, do you have days where you're just looking at those technical things? Speaker 2: I do. I also go on walks without music or podcasts where I think. Speaker 1: Wow. Speaker 2: Yeah, that's usually where I get my best ideas. Speaker 1: The kids call that raw dogging life. Speaker 2: I've been known to do that. One of the things actually, this is a fun tip. I found that some of the best ideas I've ever gotten were going on walks with other people. As we are all modern adults here, you probably don't have a friend who can just go on a walk with you every single day. So sometimes I'll just go on voice mode with ChatGPT and talk to it about what I'm thinking about. And I've gotten some really, really good ideas in the past doing that, including the one that I think we're going to talk about today. Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite things to do too. Meaning, people are like, hey, do you want to go to the bar and get a drink? I'm just like, what if we just go for a walk? What if we just go for a walk? Or like, I've done this before with you. We were just talking on the phone and I'm like, hey, I'm going to go for a walk while we talk. Is that okay? And it was phenomenal. Speaker 2: Yeah, it helped me a lot. That was a great conversation. Speaker 1: It's because I was walking. Speaker 2: ABW, always be walking. Speaker 1: That's right. People might say the same thing. People might call it like a life hack to work with a walking treadmill desk for that purpose to get the blood flowing. Speaker 2: It reminds me of that AT&T commercial where this woman turns her office into a shower because she gets her best ideas in the shower. So she's just always in the shower. That's thinking outside the box. Speaker 1: So absolutely. So that's the first tip for anyone who feels stuck. I mean, this is like, it's always like people don't need another tip. They just need to be reminded of the things that they already know and like very common knowledge, like go on a walk. It's like a timeless thing. I've read Ryan Holiday's Stillness is the Key. He's got like a whole chapter on like the benefit of going for a walk and all these great thinkers throughout history. I've always talked about and recommended going for walks. Speaker 2: Great. Speaker 1: Right. Without a podcast, interrupting your thoughts. Talking to ChatGPT while you go on a walk, I also do. If anyone sees me walking my dog in the morning, I will sometimes have earphones in and talking to ChatGPT about things. What do you do to make sure that ChatGPT, because the default ChatGPT mode is just to agree with you all the time. Do you explicitly tell it to gut check you? Speaker 2: Well, the other thing I'll do often is when it comes back and says something, I'll just be like, I don't think that's good. Be better. And it'll be like, sorry. And then it'll give me a second answer. And usually that one's a lot better. Speaker 1: So what was your last epiphany? We're talking to ChatGPT. Speaker 2: I can't remember. I would need to go into my ChatGPT or is it the one we're about to talk about? Speaker 1: I was trying to queue you up for the one we're about to talk about. Speaker 2: Oh, okay. Speaker 1: Or did you already have this pre-ChatGPT? Speaker 2: No, no. I got this from ChatGPT, but since then I've gone on a bunch of follow-up walks. Speaker 1: When was the last time you sat down with a piece of paper and wrote your thoughts down? Speaker 2: So, I have a bit of a problem. I have shaky hands, so I almost never use pen and paper because it just goes terribly. So instead, I'll turn off my Wi-Fi, open a Word doc, and write my thoughts. And I usually, I think the last time I did that was four days ago. Speaker 1: It's amazing, isn't it? Speaker 2: Yeah, it's unbelievable. So much better. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1: To like wait and like not have an instant response from something and like to like sit and think and like work through things. It's amazing. Speaker 2: Yeah. But to answer your question, the idea that we kind of came up with was not necessarily net new, but it was something we'd kind of been observing in the marketplace in general. And we gave it a name because there technically is a name for this. But it all implies or it's all unintentional. And what we noticed is there are some brands doing this, but they're doing it intentionally. So the name of what we've called this is spillover commerce. The idea is that Amazon brands, especially premium products and higher priced products, like really naturally lend themselves to this, can take like a high performing account And they can install a Shopify channel on top of it. With Meta ads as the primary traffic source, they can use that to see massive lifts and sales on both platforms because you will see either breakeven or profitable sales if you know what you're doing through the Shopify channel, but then you'll see a massive Amazon spillover effect. That's what we're calling it at least, where people will see an ad or click through to your product page, then spill over. And today I'm going to talk to you about how you can go to Amazon and search a product on Amazon and then buy there. Because there's 180 million Prime members in the United States and they all want to buy there because they trust the shipping, they trust the returns process, they trust the company. And so what you kind of do is you end up meeting customers where they are, because some people want to buy from the brand directly and some people want to buy from Amazon. You get people to buy where they want to buy and you incentivize their behavior based on what those different people care about. Speaker 1: I think one thing I noticed a lot with people who are, you know, in their identity, they call themselves Amazon sellers. And I think that, you know, talk to me about the like Venn diagram. You have like Amazon sellers and then you have like e-commerce people. And it's not 100% overlap. There's a difference between someone who's exclusively an Amazon seller and someone who's exclusively an e-commerce person, someone who's launching their product on Instagram, using Instagram as a channel. And they have a Shopify store only and maybe they're not that interested in Amazon just yet. There is an overlap to some people who understand both Amazon life and Shopify life. And then there's some that are not. I'm exclusively Shopify. I'm exclusively Amazon. You know, like the mythical example of like the garlic press, you know, a garlic press, you know, it's like $9 on Amazon. Probably not a great Shopify product. Is that safe to assume? Right. And like through the course of this conversation, I'm sure we'll discover like, why not? And like, vice versa, there might be some products on Shopify that maybe aren't going to resonate so much on Amazon. But like, if you were to divide this up, like amount of products that can only work on Amazon, only work on Shopify, or a brand that can do both, how would you break out those percentages? Speaker 2: So, I would challenge you a little bit because the way that we think about it is people, there's latent demand for different products. And so, something like a garlic press is something that theoretically could be sold in a bundle with a series of other products and that could make sense for someone who is selling products on their Shopify store. And then what they would end up doing is having some kind of bundle where you can buy a series of different things all in one on a website. And then you can actually incentivize that purchase by making it better value for money, giving away more, kind of like giving the shopper who is willing to trust a brand An incentive to do so and kind of like a reward for being willing to buy off of a website. Speaker 1: There's a strategic component I was talking about. Yeah. Beautiful. Speaker 2: And so we don't think of it as like a spectrum as much as we think of it as a opportunity for brands to get creative. Speaker 1: Just pause right there, man. Speaker 2: Good stuff. Speaker 1: Good stuff right there. So like, I heard you have some numbers to share as we open this door. Let's take a look at what this door looks like. Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'm going to send this to Michael right after this call. So if anyone wants the full presentation, we will put it there for you all. And so this is like our spillover commerce slide deck. We're just going to go through the first few slides, but we 6x sales on a product, and this is just on one product within an account on Amazon, and we 6x'd it with spillover commerce in 73 days. Why 73 days? It's because I realized that Black Friday sales were coming up on November 20th. And I didn't want to fudge the numbers. This strategy stands on its own. And so I wanted to be able to show people the performance. So we took a product from $31,000 to $195,000. And we did it while taking profit from a net loss to a positive. They were actually thinking about cutting this product at one point. But yeah, We've been able to turn this thing around and it's been absolutely transformational. Speaker 1: And just go back to the slide. Let's just dig in here. So basically, this is totals, Amazon and Shopify combined. It looks like you have like summer, late summer into early fall to sort of September, November. Total sales $31,000 to $195,000. Total ad spend $16,000 to $58,000. So that's a big ad spend leap. What was that conversation like? Hey, I think there's opportunity. Let's almost triple the ad spend. I'm sorry, more than triple the ad spend. Speaker 2: Yeah. So the thing is, it wasn't, hey, let's triple the ad spend. It was, hey, I think that we should install a secondary channel into your business. And it's going to be expensive, but we also think that it's going to pay off. And we think that as it happens, we're going to have to gradually raise the ad spend. Now, luckily, this company was ready for it. They had kind of said like, look, we have budgeted and planned to grow this product substantially. So really all we're looking for is someone who understands the playbook and is ready to go. And so yeah, we came in, we installed the actual Shopify channel, and then we also set up the ads in a way that could really take advantage of the huge Amazon spillover effect, which would then grow the sales on Amazon as well. Speaker 1: Would you say part of this equation was that Meta, this was a big marketable product. So Meta, you can gain volume really fast. Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And we can talk about the factors in a second, but I just wanted to show the numbers again. So this is like the full before and after. So the majority of the sales did happen on Amazon. So $31K to $174K, almost $175K was still all on Amazon. But the profit went from minus $13K to plus $23K on Amazon. And then as we kind of scroll down, the Shopify portion, it was all zeros before, but we went and made $20K in sales on Amazon on $12K in Facebook ad spend. And what you'll notice here is like, okay, sure. We had a huge Facebook ad spend and we didn't necessarily have like an amazing return on ad spend, but the amount of fees that are just not part of the equation here is just unbelievable. Like really there's, I went through three or four times because I was like, where are all the fees? And there's just, there's just not that many fees. So yeah, it's kind of disheartening and also enlightening when you do this or go through this process because you realize what percentage Amazon's taking of every sale you're making. Speaker 1: Let me unpack this a little bit because on the previous slide, I thought a lot of that ad spend was going to be coming from Meta. Now, Facebook ad spend is pretty significant. You went from zero in Meta ad spend to We're at 12,500 or so. And the question I had too is you also increased your Amazon ad spend pretty significantly during that timeframe too. These are equal timeframes, right? Yeah. Speaker 2: Both are 73 days. Speaker 1: Both are 73 days. Talk to me about how that connection went as well. What happens if you kept the Amazon ad spend the same? What do you think would have happened? Speaker 2: So I think it would have still gone well, but we would have handed over a lot of our sales to our competitors. Speaker 1: So that's what the big motivation was for, for just ramping up, being sure that you have the visibility when people come over. Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny. The brand owner pushed me to raise the ad spend on this more than I wanted to because they were seeing one of their competitors spending a lot of money on our branded terms. And so they, you know, I'm not a big proponent of defense on Amazon if you're just primarily an Amazon brand. But if you're implementing something like spillover commerce, we actually are, you know, we changed our minds on this. Like I'm a big proponent of increasing your branded spend if you're investing in a channel that's going to have a spillover effect. And giving it a separate budget and that kind of thing. I know it. I didn't break out branded and unbranded spend on this. Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be so curious what the composition of that increased Amazon ad spend looked like. Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what? I can try to add that as a slide before I send this to you so that if anyone wants this, like they can. Speaker 1: Interesting. Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah. I'll add that. Speaker 1: So that's really cool. And so the majority of the sales increased because I mean, sales went up 140,000 or so. Only 20,000 have been done. Shopify. So the traffic, just to be clear, the meta ads, the traffic was going to Shopify and then there was a lot of spillover onto Amazon from there. Speaker 2: That is exactly it. So it basically, it was something we observed where we realized that you could spend a lot of money and send all that traffic directly to your Shopify page. You're not sending it anywhere else. If you do that, all of a sudden, you are highly likely to see a big portion of people spill over onto Amazon without you prompting them or doing anything else. Back in the day, before Magic Spoon got on Amazon, I was managing PPC for a high-fiber cereal brand. Their number one keyword was high-fiber cereal. Their number two keyword was Magic Spoon. And every time Magic Spoon promoted a product and they sponsored a YouTube video, went on a podcast, I would just be like, let's go! Because they were just sending money to my client's account every single time. Because there was a big portion of people who refused to not buy on Amazon. Speaker 1: So that's really cool. You know what is really interesting? One of my oldest clients, I think I've worked with this person in some capacity since 2017. They were like one of AdVenture's first customers. Let me actually show you this really quick. It's a sunglasses company. I almost only exclusively wear this sunglass brand. My wife and I almost only wear these companies. Let me just share it with you. And I just wanted to hear what you, they've done this since 2017 so you go to the website and actually they really early on got a brand deal with one of the Jenner's. So I don't think this is one of the genders, but somewhere there's one of the genders that wore their sunglasses. But anyway, when you go here and you go to their website, I can buy it here on Shopify with this shop platform where I can enter my phone number or my email and all my information will be there from other Shopify stores I've purchased from. I can buy it with Prime. Or they've imported their Amazon reviews. For some of them, it has an actual button to We're going to talk a little bit about how you can buy directly from Amazon. So they actually have a button here that says shop on Amazon. So I press this and I go to Amazon and I can see this product here, right? Pretty interesting. So what's your take on, they've done this since 2017 and I think they're one of the most successful sunglass companies in the e-commerce world for some time. So I thought it was really interesting that he did this in 2017, which I thought was really risky at the time. He was one of the first people that I saw who did this, but he's still doing it. What's your take on this product page setup? Speaker 2: Well, it sounds like you're friends with this guy, so I'm not going to be too brash. Speaker 1: Well, you could share how to improve, right? Speaker 2: Yeah. So I would say that in 2017, 2018, 2019, before the pandemic and everyone was forced to shop online, this was a helpful thing brands could do for shoppers. 2020 onwards, I think the game changed and I think shoppers are smarter now than they've ever been. And I don't think it's necessary to add a shop on Amazon button on your website because people are already doing it without you needing to prompt them. So if anything, I think that the brand Woodies is leaving money on the table and potentially not converting shoppers on their own website that they could if they just learned If they just kind of adjusted their product detail page and ran a Facebook ads funnel to something like this. So yeah, that's my take. And it's funny you brought up the Kardashians because I kind of wanted to take you on a journey on the tale of two Kardashians. Kylie Jenner and Kourtney Kardashian, Kourtney Kardashian in singular, both have products on Amazon. And I want to be clear, I'm not trying to talk trash about the Kardashians. There's enough people on the internet. Speaker 1: Never on the show. Speaker 2: No. For me, this is all about the numbers and the math. And so, a tale of two Kardashians. So, Kourtney Kardashian owns Lemme Sleep. And LEMME has 19,000 followers on Facebook and 669,000 followers on Instagram. Speaker 1: Cool. Speaker 2: And they have 130 ads running. Kylie Cosmetics has 4.2 million followers on Facebook, 24.6 million followers on Instagram. So, you know, a 24x on Instagram if you're just using that for Kylie over LEMME. Speaker 1: How do you think that breaks them up? So just to be clear, Kylie has more, many more Instagram followers than Let me. Kylie has more. Got it. Speaker 2: Kylie has a lot more. Kylee's top selling product on Amazon has only sold 900 units in the past month. Not that much. Kylee, I think you're leaving a lot of money on the table. I know you're a big PPC Den listener. Yes. So, you know, if I give you a direct shout out. Speaker 1: And Courtney also definitely listening. That was about $81,900 times $90, which is what that product was. It was about $80,000 a month. Speaker 2: Yeah. Courtney has sold $20,000 worth of Lemme Sleep gummies and is the bestseller in cow meal herbal supplements. Speaker 1: That's about 600,000 in revenue. Speaker 2: Yeah. And that's just one product. There are all these other products that are also absolutely crushing it. LEMME is crushing it on Amazon. They're doing a really good job. They're really meeting shoppers where they are. And Kylie is respectfully not doing so well, even though It from what it seems like people really like her products. And so I'm looking at this and I'm saying to myself like there's like they're just Kylie could be doing so much better. You know, her her sister's doing really well. And one of the things that just jumps out at me is like. The way that they're running their ads and the different offers they have seem to be really resonating a lot more with Amazon shoppers. So if you click through to some of their main pages, there's all kinds of like, hey, here's why you'd want this product, blah, blah, blah. And then if you click through some of Kylie's stuff, it arguably looks better. This looks really good. There's all these good looking products and all this stuff. But for some reason, they haven't necessarily figured out how to translate that onto Amazon. And I have a specific opinion about why I think that, but I just kind of wanted to present this as a tale of two Kardashians. You know, it was the best of times. It was the worst of times. Because it makes me sad because this is a great makeup brand that is just not doing that well on Amazon. Speaker 1: This brand has more Instagram followers. than the other one. But I think when you went to the Facebook ad library, the other one, Lemmy, it, uh, Lemmy has like 130 ads. You know, need more creatives to be like active meta ads force. Kylie Cosmetics Despite having more followers has only 30. So like if we just use that and we can sort of assume that they're not running Meta ads with the same amount of like gusto. Yeah, they're not running it. Speaker 2: Well, but there are really like to run this playbook effectively. There are three things you have to do. And I think Lemmy does all three. And Kylie only does two. And that's really where things kind of fall apart. Speaker 1: Give us the first one. Speaker 2: So the first one is Amazon product market fit. So like, is there an active market on Amazon for the products that you're already selling? And so Amazon sellers have a bit of an advantage here because they already have Amazon product market fit. Because they're already doing really well. So that's why I care about this playbook because Amazon sellers can take this and run with it because they already have an advantage. Speaker 1: So let me has a better Amazon based product market fit understanding the Amazon customer demand better than Kylie. Speaker 2: I would say they both have Amazon product market fit because there are people selling and I'll get the third one's the one they have disparity on. So Lemme has Amazon product market fit. There are people buying vitamin gummies. Kylie has Amazon product market fit. There are people buying makeup there. Speaker 1: Got it. Speaker 2: And there's also lots of latent demand like Kylie Cosmetics has at least 4,000 searches a month. So it's definitely not a demand problem. The second one is what we call meta market fit. And really that's just, are there people who are successfully selling products like this using meta ads? Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 2: The reason that matters is if no one's been able to figure it out, then It's going to be challenging for you as a challenger brand to come in and figure that out, even if you already have a good Amazon product. So you don't want to go and look at the market and say, oh my goodness, we're going to do so great here. No one has ever figured out how to sell garlic presses online. That's a challenging thing to do. But if there's already an established playbook that somebody else has figured out for you, that's where the big opportunity lies. Speaker 1: Amazing. So just straight up Amazon product market fit, Meta ad product market fit, like is this product able to sell on Meta ads? Got it. Speaker 2: Yep. The third one is platform specific offers. So what we mean by that is An offer that makes sense for the average Amazon shopper and then an offer that makes sense for the average person who's buying from your website. So I think Kylie really has a great offer for anyone who's coming to her website. But I don't think she's really nailed it when it comes to what it is that Amazon shoppers want. Speaker 1: The first thing I noticed is that this product is $90. Exactly. Speaker 2: Could you sell an Amazon exclusive version of this where it's maybe $30 and your cost per milliliter is way higher than if you bought it on the website? That's something you could do. Cost per ounce, sorry. It said 50 milliliters, so I kind of went with milliliters there. But maybe you do a 25 milliliter offer that's Amazon exclusive. Your cost per milliliter is still high, but people who want to buy it from Amazon can, and they can try your products and help you rank this product. And then you can still have the more expensive $90 version. But then you can still have a bit of both. You can have one that's like a good fit for Amazon and one that is your standard SKU that you sell on your website. And that's kind of the thing that Most brands haven't necessarily figured out, especially not Amazon brands, because most of the time it's the other way. Most of the time they have a product like Lemmy where maybe it's $29.99, $24.99, $19.99, something like that. And then they have to figure out a way to make it more like a higher average order value so that they can afford to spend money on meta ads. And so that's where bundling comes in. That's where two packs and three packs and BOGOs comes in. Anything where you like buy one or buy two, get two free, buy something like that, where you can incentivize a higher average order value. That is what Amazon brands can do in order to make their Shopify sales work. And that's what we did in the case study I was showing you before. So we basically found a way to upsell people into getting more of them, but at a lower cost per unit and incentivizing people to buy something that they couldn't get on Amazon because then Amazon can't price compare you. And offer something to the customer that incentivizes them to buy through the actual Shopify website and through meta ads. Speaker 1: Very cool. You know, one of the things that I always see successful brands do is iterate on their product offerings. So like, just like you mentioned, what if this is $90 out of the gate? What if we offer a smaller size for a cheaper price, but like the margins better stuff, stuff like that. It's so, so, so valuable. And I also think like iterating in the lens of what like Amazon shoppers want is also really valuable or like what a Meta offer looks like, like being sort of like platform specific with your offering, knowing like what kind of customer and like how to be successful on each one. Because you're right, like it's going to be really hard to run Meta ads for a $9 product. It's hard to run Amazon ads for a $9 product too, to be honest. But there's plenty of companies that do on Amazon, but it's very difficult to do it with Meta ads. So I think understanding that is really valuable. Instead of a brand trying to shoehorn the same product everywhere, really like be flexible in the sense of like, well, what is the, what does my market want? Like, maybe they don't want this big size for $90. Like maybe they do just want a smaller size for a cheaper price. Like, There's a degree of needing to be humble to that. Like, hey, I'm trying to force this $90 product onto people. I'm like, yeah, people buy it. I do have some sales, but imagine if I had small, medium, and large variations here on Amazon. That's just on the Amazon side too. But I just wanted to highlight the power of product iteration. I see a lot of A lot of solopreneurs, just on the Amazon side without even referring to off Amazon side, a lot of solopreneurs on Amazon that really struggled. They're like, I have this product. I really believe in it. And I'm trying to sell it. And it's like, Well, your competitors have like all these different kinds of different ways to buy the thing that you're offering at like different pricing, different value offers. There's only so much you can do just pulling on the lever of like, I need a better ACOS. I need like better tacos. Optimization where you can get a lot more nuance once you get into like product iteration. So it's almost like this is an extension of that where it's like, there's a whole market on browsing Instagram. Like, imagine you were able to tap into them and like, what does a good offer look like to serve through Instagram? Like, what do you have to do on your website to do that? And like, there's going to be a certain amount of people that like just spill over to Amazon and buy it directly from there too. Brilliant. Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, the way we talk about it is meeting shoppers where they are. Not every shopper is the same. And so how do we kind of give them what they want? Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. If there's a brand on Amazon right now, let's say they have like 10 SKUs, two parent, like some brand like that. When to adopt this strategy? Like when should the light go on for someone who's like, okay, I have limited time, attention, resources. Does it seem like they're spreading themselves out too thin by beginning to think about meta? Because you need a whole different playbook. Your creatives need to look different. Your strategy needs to look different. Your budgeting, your expected direct ROAS. There's a degree of a leap of faith, right? Like, hey, run these meta ads. You're going to get a percentage of people going over to Amazon. When would you say the conditions are prime to do this? How did you know that situation was going to work? What did you see? What did you sense? When is the time right for this? Speaker 2: So, I think it really comes down to the three things that I said, like Amazon product market fit, Meta market fit, and then platform-specific offers. So, you got to have those three mailed. Speaker 1: In place. Speaker 2: In place, yeah. Or you have to be ready to implement them and have a plan. So, if you already have an idea for how to implement this playbook, it's worth trying. Cool. Now, the thing that a lot of people get wrong is, I don't know how to say this, Politely, but the results that you can get from an Amazon agency, I would say they kind of exist on a normal distribution. They're good and they're on a bell curve. So the best people are going to be better and the worst people are going to be bad, but a lot of people end up clustering in the middle. But with something like Meta ads, It really happens on a power law where like the top 10% of people who run Meta ads. And I, again, we had to bring in team members to be able to do this. Um, cause I I'll be honest, you know, I've been running ads full time on Amazon since 2017. I was not able to get this level of results on my own. It's definitely a team effort and you need someone who's a true expert. Um, and, or I needed at least. And so the thing that brands get wrong is they. Kind of use the same logic that they used on Amazon to get themselves up and running. You know, first they run it themselves, then they outsource it to somebody else. Who's kind of like, like able to follow the training and playbook. In my opinion, that is not a viable playbook for doing this on Meta and Shopify. You need someone, or at least I need someone who's like a true expert in Meta ads to get us from zero to one. So traditionally, that costs money. So if you don't have that skill set in-house already, then I would recommend not doing this until you're at least a $1 million a year brand. Traditionally, we've seen the best results with $2 million a year brands or higher. And so that's really Where we would recommend you go if you need to outsource large portions of this. If you have the Facebook ad skill set already and you kind of understand how to run Facebook ads, then set yourself a small budget and see if you can get it to work without you. And then at that point, it's like maybe half a million a year and you can start trying this playbook out. But the time commitment and the level of expertise that We've seen this requires is a lot bigger than most people would expect because of how different it is. Speaker 1: You know, years and years ago, I was involved in a really big Kickstarter launch of a female beauty brand and the budget per day on Meta ads, while this was going on, was astronomical. We want to spend 50 grand per day for the next seven days. It was huge. And the difference in how those campaigns are ran on Amazon ads versus Meta ads is very, very different. It's almost like a war room on Meta ads where it's just like, you're watching minute by minute, you're tweaking, and it's even more exaggerated today. With like the amount of creative optimization that you can do. So it's a very different mindset. I think someone that does Google ads can transition over to Amazon ads and vice versa pretty easily. I don't know if that's true on Meta ads. I feel like Meta ads people, it's a very different skill set than search-based marketing like Google or Amazon is. Speaker 2: I've helped a bunch of different brands that have been substantial through Meta and Shopify get onto Amazon. Every single time they try to get their Meta ads buyer to buy Amazon ads first and it goes horrendous. They lean into sponsored display, they've got a bunch of video ads running with category targeting, like all the things that would make perfect sense on something like Meta is horrendous when you get it onto Amazon. Speaker 1: Sean, we've got all of your links in the description of this video. People can reach out to you. We'll link to the presentation too. What a cool And I hope that any Amazon seller who's listening to this thinks a little bit bigger. That's a takeaway for me too. There's always different ways to expand on Amazon. You could do more of what you're doing. You could expand to Canada. You can do these other things. But this whole concept of tapping into meta ads is a really fascinating one. And I thank you for sharing it with everyone. It's always great to have you on the show. Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. I'd really try my best to be as valuable as possible. Speaker 1: You always connect, dude. Thank you so much. Think about spillover e-commerce and get a whiteboard. Open up a Word doc with your Wi-Fi off and go for a walk, and then that's your path to success. Speaker 2: Exactly. Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Sean. Speaker 2: Thank you. Unknown Speaker: I've launched campaigns and picked keywords. I've got my bids, set placements too. No bad mistakes. I've made a few. I've had my share of rocky ones. But I've gone through. We are The PPC Den, my friends. And we'll keep on going crazy. Two are the PPC dead, we're talking about Amazon. No time for medicals, cause we'll fix the game.