What Brands Get Wrong About Influencers

Don't work with big influencers. Work with the smaller influencers for so many reasons. On Tik Tok shop, I would say very bare minimum commission is 10%, 15%. Creators can also filter by commission amount, like 30% or over. If it's a beauty product and you're going to buy it or supplement every 30 days, why not give away a much higher or even 100% of the product the first time around? The first message, outreach message should cover all the bases. Simple, to the point. Leave the creator with just one question. It's like, do you want to work with us? Yes or no? You're watching Marketing Misfits with Norm Ferrar and Kevin K. Mr. Ferrar. How you doing, man? Good to see you. Another week, another great podcast. I hope it this kind of depends on you, Kevin. Uh, it could be a good podcast or it could just depends on me. It depends on me. Well, that whether I let you ask a question or not. Uh-huh. That usually, you know, is challenging. Well, sometimes we have to redo them because you hit the wrong button. So, I'm like I'm counting on you to hit the right button. Uh, you always push my buttons. But, uh, that's why your glasses are fogging up, right? That's it. Well, it's just because it's you. But, uh, all right. Hey, you know what I've been working on lately? What have you been working on lately? Uh, a schedule for the CMS trip in November. this, you know, that you heard of CMS, right? You heard of the Collective Mind Society. Our guest today has actually been on a couple of the uh actually been to the last one. Uh came came to the last one, but uh we have one coming up in November. What are we doing, Norm? What are we doing in November? Well, I didn't read your agenda, but if you if there was a little bit of my input, then we're going to be in Tampa, the cigar capital of North America, and we are going to have a bash. It's going to be an incredible event for like-minded individuals who just love cigars, sitting around, talking. Um, we've got a great event happening. So, that's going to be in Tampa. That's in November. We're going to go to the what was voted the world's number one uh cigar lounge, which is kind of cool. We've got some really incredible cigar tours happening. So, you'll actually get to roll your own cigar and see how it's done properly. I don't know. Mine's probably going to look like a U. I'm not smok I'm going to be smoking the ones you roll. I don't know. Be falling all in my lap. Um but but no, it's going to be really cool. Yes. So, we we have a a full or four nights, three full days uh trip uh to I think there's like seven cigar lounges that we're going to plus like Norm said a rolling a museum and a rolling place. A lot of people don't realize Tampa is the cigar capital of the world. They think it's they always think of Cuba or Miami or something like that. But it's actually Tampa. More cigars are made there than anywhere else. And Norman and I went and checked it out back in uh May and it was uh we got super excited. This trip's going to be awesome. So, if you want to know more about that, you can go to Collective Mind Society. Uh, and you know, we might our our guest today was actually on the trip that we did last year through the Canadian Rockies. And you know, our guest today actually is the reason one of the big reasons I'm paying more attention to social media. I bet you didn't know this, Norm. I remember when I first heard of of Gracie, it was like 20 Wow, man. Was someone had told me about um Tik Tok like 2017, 2018, like you got to check out this Tik Tok. And I'd heard about musically before it became Tik Tok and uh I think Gary Vee was talking about it and then somehow I can't I can't remember exactly where I think she came on a podcast with somebody or she was on a summit and she's like I got 1.3 million followers and I'm doing I got all these deals and I'm doing this and doing this and then um she came down to an event in Austin. and we were hanging around with a bunch of people and she was kind of uh hinting and not she wouldn't actually say but someone was grilling her on how much money are you making doing this as an influencer and and she kind of beat around the bush but it was it was decent money uh like eye opening and and I was like all right these in this influencer stuff I got to start taking seriously and so that's why I started actually started looking into a lot of the social media and started hyping it in the BDSS and and uh and all the stuff that I do the newsletter and everything so It's because of her uh that I actually started paying closer attention to what's become something everybody should be paying attention to. Can you believe that? Can you believe that? I I don't believe I think you just made it up. But uh I'll take your I'm trying to get it. Don't don't don't bring me down, Nor. I'm trying to earn brownie points for Gracie so that you know she she's always happy when to to see me and I don't want to disappoint. Are we having a cat fight? Let's let's let's just bring her on. All right. This is my job. Stand back every button. Not that not the loop. Not that button, Norm. The other button. The other button. The other button. That one. That one. Gracie. It's the place looks a lot better, Norm. This is so much better now. How you doing, Gracie? I'm doing good. How are you guys doing? Uh we're live and and kicking still. Oh, that is great news. Yeah. Well, they say every day above ground's a good day. That's what pit especially now. So, how how's life been treating you? Life is good. Staying busy. It's really really hot now that it's summer. So, um I am potentially looking forward to Tampa. I've been talking about wanting to go to the beach. So, that is hopefully something I can look forward to. And well, we're doing it in November, so the weather's still good. But you you were on the last trip last time that we uh how was that? Uh did you did you did you have have a good time? I know you were like, uh I don't know, train ride. That's what like old people do. Uh but at the end of the day, I think uh you really enjoyed it, right? We turned the train into a party is it was beautiful. It was probably somewhere that I never would have gone by myself. So the the people were great. I loved the size of it. It wasn't so big that you, you know, couldn't talk to everyone. I I feel like I had time to get to know people who were there on a deeper level. And I I do feel like there were some good like mix of fun and partying and cigar and all that good stuff, but also good learning and education and like real conversations. And you know, I definitely got closer to some people and made new friends on the trip. So I want to say I regretted it, but I don't. So, but that that's the point of it. You know, when we did the F1, not everybody's into F1. When we were doing the Rockies, not everybody's into that. And now, same thing with the cigars. You might want to just come and hang out. Oh, you know what? Remind and I know we'll get into the influencers in a second, but one of the things that I remember about that trip is trying to get Kevin to come with me and go outside the first night we got to B and there was a grizzly bear outside or something like that and they were warning us smoke cigars. You can't go out there. Yeah, there's a there's a bear rolling around outside the hotel. So, we all we didn't get cigars that night. We had to come in. We just sat in that one little what? Library or something? Yeah. It's like a kind of lounge library thing and just um shot the shot the you know the that beep. Yeah. For for a little while. But yeah, that that was cool. So, speaking of uh influence, you have a lot of influence uh when it comes to some social media. How did you you went to school for marketing, right? You graduated with a marketing degree and then I know you work for someone. Walk us through how the Gracie evolved from a marketing degree to becoming uh one of the the better known and top influencers, creators in the ecom space. Sure. Yeah. So, I went to school for a mix of psychology and business. So, at the time, I wasn't sure what direction that would take me, but all I knew was I was really interested in the psychology of marketing. And so, in hindsight, it worked out really well. But at the time, I really was interested in sales. I actually did sales straight out of college. And I feel like even if I hated the cold calling and I really hated like the culture of that kind of sales, I did learn so much about the the science behind it, the tonality, how to sell something to somebody that probably doesn't know that they need something or want something. And so while it was like kind of in the trenches, I feel like I got a lot of value out of it. And then from there, it was the height of the pandemic. So mid 2020 when Tik Tok really started growing a lot. A lot of people just turned from just watching videos to starting to create videos in the middle of the pandemic. And from there I unintentionally started gaining traction. I unintentionally started monetizing. Uh, I always say I never thought of myself as somebody who could make money from social media, especially back then when it was only the people with huge followings that could make money from it. But I actually learned about the affiliate side of things and linking and driving traffic to listings later on, probably a few months into it because um, I think an Amazon seller reached out and asked about it and I'm like, "What do you mean the Amazon influencer program? What is an affiliate link?" So, I actually learned about that later on, but within a couple months was able to kind of surpass my 9-to-f5 income and uh as of 2021 went full-time with it and have been ever since. Was it only 2021? It's only 2020. Yeah. Yeah. 2021. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. So, you came on then the BDSS virtual shortly after you kind of started blowing up. So, did Oh, wow. All right. That was early on. Okay. Mhm. So, what what is it about I mean you I know you personally outside of the the business world and you're a little bit more u when I've been around at least a little more shy and reserved and and careful, but when you come you get on camera, I've seen some of your work, it's like a whole another person. It's like you light up you light up. It's like you light up the stage. is like I I don't that's part of your magic is like you really turn it on and it's not in a fake way or it's not in some like over the top way but you have this the just your eye expressions your your the way you move your head everything is a lot is that just natural for you or is that some of like what you've learned through the psychology and like you're you're actually applying some of the the psychology so that people have that empathy and that relate to you and uh you draw them in. That is something that I probably learned from just being such an avid watcher of Tik Tok. I'm on it multiple hours a day. So, I'm able to see different videos. I've seen videos with absolutely zero views and millions of views. And within studying that, I can tell when you It kind of goes back to the tonality of sales. If you answer a sales call or you you start a sales call and you're like, "Hey, uh, this is Gracie from Soando. I'm calling about they're they're gone. It's kind of like cold calling is almost like Tik Tok where you have the hook and you have 3 seconds to hook the viewer or the the prospect and if you lose them, you lose the sale, you lose the viewer. Somebody scrolls or somebody hangs up. It's very like parallel. So that kind of energy I think is so so clear that if you want to transfer that energy of I'm excited about something, I'm confident about something and I'm trying to tell you something important. Please like don't scroll away. That is the science behind it. And so if I started a video like, "Hey guys, um I I have this product like I'm they're gone." So you have really the hook in the 3 seconds to make somebody care. Um, so yeah, that is interesting. And I am definitely more shy, quiet, reserved in person and that is definitely true. So, well, you still sell because I got a furry tail and I'm not a furry, but um I bought it, you know, that's my other what a furry tail. All I'm picturing is like furry little like a furry tail. What's a furry tail? You'll have to research that on your off hours. Yeah. Yeah. We'll talk about that later. But, uh, Gracie, is it also the colors that you're using? So, I know like when when I've watched, uh, Deal Cheats, I can see exactly what Kevin's talking about, but you've also got this mix of colors that are blended into your set. Is that all part of it as well? There is definitely. I mean, I'm I'm not sitting here like, I'm gonna use blue and purple because they actually convert better. But blue is associated with trust and authenticity. Purple is kind of just a fun color. So, I think they look well together. But, um, I've definitely noticed some things like when I wear certain colors, videos do perform differently. And actually, an interesting thing that I learned while in Iceland, when I was talking to Daryl, the YouTube guy works with Mr. Beast. He was looking at my channel and he was like, "Oh, when you had when you dyed your hair red, you actually got way more views during like that time period because you probably were looking more recognizable." And that's something that I never had clocked beforehand that my hair color, like the things that I'm wearing, the colors that I'm using in my background or wearing it made a difference, but it's a very subconscious difference to note. Hey, Norm, you'll love this, man. I talked to a seller the other day doing 50k a month, but when I asked them what their actual profit was, they just kind of stared at me. Are you serious? That's kind of like driving blindfolded. Exactly, man. I told them, "You got to check out Sellerboard. This cool profit tool that's built just for Amazon sellers. It tracks everything like fees, PPC, refunds, promos, even changing cogs during using FIFO. Aha. But does it do FBM shipping costs too? Sure does. That way you can keep your quarter 4 chaos totally under control and know your numbers because not only does it do that, but it makes your PPC bids. It forecasts inventory. It sends review requests and even helps you get reimbursements from Amazon. Now, that's like having a CFO in your back pocket. You know what? It's just $15 a month, but you got to go to sellerboard.commisfits. sellerboard.com/misfits. And if you do that, they'll even throw in a free two-month trial. So, you want me to say go to sellerboard.commisfits and get your number straight before your accountant loses it? Exactly. All right. So the channels that you're working with right now, uh what are they? Uh you're doing Amazon Live still a little bit. So I'm more working directly with brands for Amazon Live. Um, and then I want to say a lot of what I'm focusing on is more so Tik Tok just because I've sadly seen when I was um, working with Tik Tok directly when Tik Tok shop launched back in 2023, like the summer months of 2023, I've seen the progression of the entire platform change so much. And now I'm kind of getting stressed realizing that we've almost missed like the golden days of Tik Tok. And so if you're delaying or waiting it out, like it will only get more competitive and hard for both brands and affiliates. So now I'm like, while the time is right, let me focus on this now because I'm seeing just within the last year and a half, it's changed so drastically that like we're almost out of the golden days. And I'm like, you know, we we uh we talked about this year or two ago and that was Amazon Live. And one of the things that got me nervous, and this could be for any creator or influencer, if you're putting all your eggs in one basket, like Amazon Live, they came down, you remember when they came down and they just cut like a ton of A-listers just like that. So your income is gone, correct? So what about Tik Tok? Like are you worried about that? So there's like the personal worry of like what if my account gets a violation and I get taken out of the program or banned or something and then there's like the program itself. So obviously we know that there was the whole talk of the Tik Tok ban. I don't personally believe in it. I know a lot of brands were holding back from really investing into Tik Tok because they were like what if it goes away in two months? Like it'll all be for for nothing. But I think that is a scared mindset. I don't think that should be holding you back from really utilizing the platform. But then there's always the whole like what if my personal account gets banned for something, a violation or something. That's always a fear. I've seen multiple affiliates have multiple affiliate accounts. And um as time passes, it's like easier to start an affiliate account. Like people can have between 1,000 and 5,000 followers and then basically get access to being a Tik Tok affiliate. So, it's always a fear, but it's just one of those things like the more educated you are about not doing something wrong, the better off you'll be. And then, of course, making connections for people who can help if you're ever in that situation is useful, too. What's the difference in an affiliate, a creator, and an influencer? A lot of people kind of use those interchangeably, but in some ways, they have different meanings, too. So, can you explain that to uh people that are listening? I love this question. there's so much uh overlap, but I do believe that all three things are somewhat different. So, affiliate is somebody who is basically promoting something from a company. They're being the affiliate of a service or product. So, this has nothing to do with influence or following. This could be like a blogger. This could be a website. This could be anybody who's making a little cut of commission from selling somebody else's product. That's an affiliate. Then, creator, kind of uh interchangeable with influencer. creator could be somebody with zero followers that just creates content, makes videos, live streams, whatever. That's just a creator. And then an influencer is somebody hopefully with influence. This is more so with like follower count, um, you know, follower loyalty, somebody who says, "Do this." And their followers go, "Sounds good." And so that's why they're a little bit different. An influencer is both a creator and an affiliate. Um, an influencer is also a creator, of course, if they're using video or content to be the influencer. So, there's definitely a mix, but all three are a bit different to me. So, since you're talking about the definitions of these three, what about the definitions of the type of influencer there is, like from macro all the way up to celebrity? You want to get into that a bit? Sure. So, I love this this because right now I feel like is the era of small content creators, people just getting started, micro influencers. I had always been a big proponent of telling brands, don't work with big influencers, work with the smaller influencers for so many reasons. So, of course, typically with the general theme, there's like micro, nano, there's like midsize, mid-tier, and then there's mega, macro, celebrity type of, and this is just based on follower count. Typically, that's associated with how much they charge, how many impressions and engagements they get, how much they can actually sell. But more so recently, it doesn't really correlate anymore. Somebody with 2,000 followers and zero quote unquote influence can sell out a product. and the macro influencer with a million followers gets like a,000 views and no sales. So, more than ever, it doesn't really matter the follower count anymore. And now I'm seeing this on not only Tik Tok, but also Instagram, shorts, reals, all those other platforms, too. So, that one with a million that might get a thousand views. Is that because their channel is so mixed where they're promoting uh a weight loss supplement one day and then uh dog food the next day and something else and so the algorithm gets confused on who to show it to versus the micro the the the smaller 2,000 they're like dialed in on a specific niche and so it just and is it the niche people just have a better quality audience because that's why they're niche. It's it's more d it's more zeroed in on a very specific avatar type of thing or what what's what is what causes that? So I think it's not necessarily always about like how niched down you are or the algorithm. I think everyone especially on these platform is kind of on an even playing field. Like for example somebody with little followers can get 5 million views. the the big influencer can also get five million views, but like it's less guaranteed, especially if you're talking about a product or trying to sell something. So, sometimes the micro influencers almost come across like more real. They're not sitting there with like a perfect camera setup and perfect lighting and like totally on for the camera. That's no longer what's selling. So sometimes like the more unpolished crappier looking content almost comes across more authentic of like oh this person is literally just sharing a product they like instead of like a bigger influencer with like probably more experience knowledge and a better setup is coming across more polished but salesy. I've noticed that with there's an influencer Abby something. It's a girl in uh New York and Abby, what's her last name on Tik Tok and I somehow stumbled across her cuz I mentioned the word Dachund to Norm that I'm getting a mini doc. So Tik Tok starts showing me dachshund videos and it was this girl getting on a plane from New York to go to your hometown of Atlanta or area of Atlanta and pick up a Dachon and fly a little 8-week old puppy and fly back with it. And she was a she was a cute little girl. um not um but but what she's done though is she's doing a mix of stuff. She's obviously doing an influencer. She just flew to Korea to to do something over there. But um she shows her life and she'll show in makeup, not in makeup, glammed up, not glammed up. Uh good lighting, not good lighting. Uh walking down the street, like it's a uh going into the coffee shop, doing different things with her dog um or different things with her girlfriends. And she doesn't show the people too much. It's mostly about her and her dog. Um, but it's a a mix and I think that's that's a style. I don't know if you're seeing this now where a lot of people are it's almost like a day in the life and you feel like you're getting to know this person and it's much more authentic than that. Everything is glammed up or tightly controlled and she'll drop something sometimes and she'll she's clearly editing it but she'll leave something in uh just to make it look like it's it's that. Um, are you seeing more of that type of content resonating out there? So that exactly is what I call the girl who she is. She is the niche. The only thing that is co consistent in her content is that it's about her her life, her style, the things that she uses every day. And that is the best way to build that community of loyal followers. Um if you're like one day it's this product, the next product, different products, that's fine. But then the central theme of it is like the product. So if they don't like the product, they don't care for the video. But here, the girl that you're talking about, if it's about her, people are watching for her. So, she could be using anything in the world and people care because it's her. So, she mixes it in. She mixes the product. She's not always shilling products. It's like subtly. It's like almost product placement. Like she's doing her makeup and she do a few things and then the third thing that she picks up. Oh, this is I love this E.L.F. whatever. Blah blah blah. It's so great. And then puts it down. Don't talk anything else about it. That's the best way to do it. It's the most organic. Like she's genuinely using it because she uses it, not like this is a and like it's not product focused. It's her focus. And if people like her, they'll listen to the stuff she's using and what she's talking about. So it's a great I guess what what Kevin was describing with light without light dropping things crappy polished. Uh that's it sounds like it's very similar to social media content where you got to mix it up. I'll have some motivational quotes. I'll have some nice images but just in a video format is Would you agree with that? Yeah, it's always best to mix it up but still have a common thing of why people are watching you. So it's totally fine to be like here's what I drank for coffee. Here's my workout. Here's the makeup I'm using. here's my dog. But at the same time, she's still the central theme between all these things. And the product placement, like organically, I think that is what's working the best because the more you focus on like one product, one thing when you're not at the highlight of the video, it really depends on what the product is. And if the product's not good, doesn't matter. So, she had she had some of it she didn't even mention. Like she has this little miniature doc, but she has this really nice kennel. I never seen a kennel that's this nice. And I I I looking at like she never mentioned like what the brand name is or anything, but I'm like looking at going that's pretty cool. Uh and someone probably gave this to her. It's probably a placement thing or whatever. But I went and tried to find it. Um I was and then now I'm getting retargeted with that kennel and I'll probably end up end up buying one of these little It's It looks like furniture. It doesn't look like a metal cage. Yeah. It and so there's there's that I think is is is powerful. I then I looked her up. She's got like 1.7 million followers. I'm like, "Oh, I had no idea." Because she doesn't come across as one of these these ego people or something that some some of them do. Um uh but so from when brands approach you to actually have you push their stuff. I know you used to have when you're doing the deal days, there's a special package and stuff, but you've kind of evolved a little bit from there. And I I saw you firsthand uh last Christmas, someone that wanted you to to uh to do imp to do stuff for them and you're like, "No." Um and they were they were pushing really really hard and and you're like, "No, it's just not what you have is not right. This is not going to fit." And you were honest to them. Um so what what is it that works for you? Like when brands come to you, what do you like to see number one and what is it that actually works and what do you what doesn't work for you? Yeah, you're right. I have been through a time where I was so excited about working with brands that I probably took on brands that didn't really make sense for me. I didn't necessarily love their product. I was forced to say things about their product that I probably wouldn't say otherwise. So, especially with that, and I know what you're talking about, they have amazing products, but I think their strategy was a little bit not what I would have suggested that they do. they were more focusing on using like one larger influencer and putting all their eggs in that basket when my strategy would probably have been to spread it out with smaller influencers and and get more impact in sales that way with the brand awareness mixed with a bunch of other things getting more content out. So, it wasn't that um the product was bad, but in that sense I am a lot more picky with the brands that I work with. If I say yes to a brand and I'm not into their product, I don't believe in it. I that's going to come across in my video, I'm going to be talking like a robot. I'm not going to be authentic about it. I can't look at the camera in the eye and say, "Love this product, dude. Does it's great." It comes across inauthentic. And I think when you are building a following, they can see that over time and they can see like, oh, this girl doesn't like this product and she's being saying all these talking points and that means she's going to say false things about other products just to sell it or because a brand paid her to. So there's no trust. There's no trust. Yeah. It's that trust that you build with followers that like I'm going to say no to things that I don't really believe in and I don't think is a good thing that I would recommend to you. That trust is what's going to build the following over time. But it's also you got to learn when to say no. You can't take it, you know, just because you you want money. But the other thing uh and and I remember that conversation. You stood your ground and good for you. And you did a good job. You did a good job. But uh the brand and I love the people who work there. No, they're good people. They're good people. Yeah. But one of the things this comes across and Kevin and I see this a lot as well. We'll work on a presentation. We'll get it done. We know just just like you. We know what it takes for this uh brand to move the mark. Yeah. And then you go to the presentation just like you and you say, "This is what you need to do." And then they come back after after you've laid it all out, hours worth of work, and they come back and say, "I hear what you're saying, but Mhm." And soon as I hear that, they're no longer a client. It's it's like you're not listening to me. Correct. You know, and that's something that you were able to do during that conversation, which was uh you know, very very good. Thank you. Thank you. That's totally true. If if they're not going to listen to your expertise and your insights and they want to do it their way, it's not your way, then it's not a good fit. And as a people pleaser, I'm slowly but surely learning that in this industry. I did not know for the longest time and I learned my lesson the hard way and now I'm trying to practice it more. It's hard. How do you cut through the clutter? I mean, I can only imagine as an influencer, especially if you got someone like you has good following and good engagement, you're just have to be inated from the creator center, from agencies, from people DMing you, uh, just left and right. And how do you handle that? Does someone go through that for you and screen them out or do you look for certain catchphrases or like only things that you want or do you go seek out people like the ones the brands that you're using? You're like, "Hey, by the way, um I'd love to help you guys out." Uh or how how walk me through that cuz that's just got to be a headache. Uh sometimes it sure is. It leads to a lot of unanswered emails and messages. So that's not the best advice I can give. But I do suggest like once you get to that point of being bombarded with things that it's either too overwhelming, it's too tiresome of a task where you're spending half your time just scrolling through emails kind of just trying to see what's worth your time and what's not. I think that's a good point in time to get a talent agency, talent manager where they are literally just monitoring your inbox, responding to the brands that make sense for you or or have the requirements that you're looking for and literally just going through that and filtering it for you because one, it's overwhelming to wake up to a hundred emails every day and know that you're having to spend six hours a day going through everything. Uh, and that's taking time away from what you can do, aka creating the content, doing what you do as a video creator. So, if you're ever getting to that point, you don't have to have like a talent manager, but you could have like a VA or like somebody to help you do that so you're not spending all your time and energy cuz not only is it time, it's a lot of mental work, too. And it's a lot of keeping track. And I'm not an organized person, clearly. So like it's it's overwhelming. A lot of things were missed. Payments were missed. Like everything was in shambles. And so until that part was cleared up and I I did have somebody for that. It's overwhelming. But then you know like here are the products that I'm looking for. I'm not going to promote this random AI company. I'm looking for products that are high quality, well-known, and like reputable and something I can actually stand behind. Maybe I'm only working with brands with this certain amount of budget. I'm not going to respond to an email that's offering me 50 bucks and 5% commission. So once you get to that point, it's timeconuming, but it's so worth it to have somebody help with that because it it takes you away from doing what you do best and how you grow at the end of the day. Now, a quick word from our sponsor, Lavanta. Hey, Kevin, tell us a little bit about it. That's right, Amazon sellers. Do you want to skyrocket your sales and boost your organic rankings? Meet Lavanta, Norman and I's secret weapon for driving highquality external traffic straight to our Amazon storefronts using affiliate marketing. That's right. It's achieved through direct partnerships with leading media outlets like CNN, Wire Cutter, and Buzzfeed, just to name a few, as well as top affiliates, influencers, bloggers, and media buyers, all in Lvanta's marketplace, which is home to over 5,000 different creators that you get to choose from. So, are you ready to elevate your business? Visit get.lavanta.io/misfits. That's get.lav lavanta l van n t a.io/misfits and book a call and you'll get up to 20% off Lavanta's gold plan today. That's get.lavont.io/misfits. Are there any apps out there that can help a creator keep track of all of that? One of the biggest nightmares I had when I was dabbling in this is invoicing. Yeah. Just keeping track of the, you know, the amount of units. Like, you know, $1,500. Oh, we missed that one. $500. Oh, we missed that one. It's bad, but it's so true. Like, at the time, I realized like, yes, maybe I'd have to pay somebody to like scour through these emails, but at the same time, the amount of invoices that I was missing, it was way worth it. Way worth it. So yes, it is really really really important to like not miss those things. I was missing deadlines. I was missing like details. I was to answer your question about the tools. There are AI tools that thank God are here now that I didn't have back in 2021. Um there's like email inbox organization tools. There's probably plenty of creator tools out there. I don't know one off the top of my head that does it all and does it well, but I'm sure plenty of them were would be helpful. And now there are um I don't know a couple of email inbox like AI softwares that I think are at the very least helpful if not going to be like the same as a person actually going through everything. This way it can give you AI summaries, you can filter by certain things and it does make it easier but it doesn't fully do the job yet. What about managing expectations? I'm talking about the other side of the fence. So, we've talked to a ton of brands that they're reaching out 10, 50 influencers and they're all sad because, you know, the one influencer that responded gave them a crappy video. So, let's talk about, you know, how to manage those expectations for brands. What do they need to put into it and what can they expect for output? Yeah, that's a really good question. I had a brand recently reach out and they were like, "We want to really focus on Tik Tok shop targeted campaigns, but like nobody's responding and I we don't know what what's wrong with our outreach." So managing expectations, I think putting all your eggs in like a little basket is not the right way to go right now, especially with either way. If you're working with Amazon or Tik Tok, the best thing you can do is like widen the outreach, but also focus on the quality of the outreach. Like using like all the things that I like talked about back in 2021 kind of still ring true. It's like say their name instead of saying like, "Hey, like your YouTube channel, but then you don't have a YouTube channel." So like right away, like I know they have no idea what my content is. They're not telling me I'm a perfect fit and they love my content. Like that's not true. They're just spamming this this email. So if you are emailing 10 creators and only one crappy one responds, email a hundred and then you'll get more responses. It's it's hard. You can use different softwares to like widen the outreach. You can improve the copywriting of it. Shout out AI chat GBT. Like, but also another thing that I'm like kind of getting um picky about is I can catch chat GPT like hyphens and terminology and I know what is made with chat GBT and what isn't. So, it's I don't know how many other people are like really picky about that, but I am. And um basically AI is great but if you are utilizing that without any kind of personalization that's hard. Another thing that I will mention it's like the first message outreach message should cover all the bases simple to the point and leave the creator with just one question. It's like do you want to work with us? Yes or no. So, like you should be including here's exactly what we're looking for deliverables. Here is our budget or they're asking for your rates for whatever deliverables. Here's the timeline. We want this by next week or like we're just doing a campaign this month. Um samples and and product given to the influencer is like very base level. Like it shouldn't be like we're give you a unit of products in return. Like stop doing that. like that is the influencer needs the product to even know what they're talking about. So that should be at the very basic level. Um and then after I know all these details of like deliverables, what they're looking for, timeline, budget, then I can be like, "All right, I'm interested. Let's do it." Or I'll pass. Not a good fit. But I recently had a brand. I really love the brand, but they were like, "Hey, like we want to work with you. What do you say?" And I'm like, "Okay, but what do you want?" "Okay, but like what do you want to do?" Like, "What's your idea? What's the goal? What deliverables? Is this commission? Is it flat fee? Like, what is it?" So now I'm like, there's a whole bunch of emails you're saving both sides from by just including the basics in the first outreach email. But what about new people? I mean, new brands coming on, they don't have a GMV. Yeah. And the same for new creators, affiliates, they don't have a GMV. So, a lot of people are using these uh tools like Yuka and some of these others uh KOD or whatever to see like who should I be working with, who can actually sell and there there's a difference when someone of someone who can sell. I mean, Norman, I had uh Tiffany on the on this podcast. Uh I don't know if uh if it's out now or if it was in the past one, but it she's doing 21 million a year on Tik Tok. Uh and she does all of her own uh content. Zero on Amazon. Uh zero presence on Amazon. 21 million a year on on Tik Tok and she's very good on camera and very good at turning on. So there's certain people that are good salespeople and I think that's where a lot of influencers uh you know I said this stat before but I think I saw it's 1.5 million people right now want to be influencers in the United States or are actually trying to be right now. And then every 13year-old doesn't want to be a doctor anymore. They want to be an influencer or an astronaut or whatever. They want to be an influencer. So it's but most of these people don't make money. Uh, and so then the brands are looking like, well, who can sell? Just because you're pretty, just because you have a nice set, just because you have whatever, doesn't mean you can actually sell, right? Uh, and so how do how do you find that product? It's not, you know, it's they say there's product market fit, but there's also uh product or goal slashcreator influencer affiliate fit. How do how do you find that? And and what's what's the best way to go about that? Or sometimes you just got to roll the dice. So on the creator side, GMV is a great stat to look at to determine can this person sell? But here's a perspective that they probably haven't considered. That person's GMV, depending on the creator, that person's GMV potentially might all be from one performing video and 99% of their other videos have generated zero. So, the better indicator is to look at a creator's actual content. Is is it high quality? Is it somebody that you want representing your brand or is it like in a dark corner muffled sound? They're doing everything but talking about the product, but the product is linked. So, like the quality of the video is much more important than overall GMV. And also seeing like is the GMV like across multiple videos. Is it every time they post a video they sell something or did they have one mega viral video where 99% of this GMBB came from? So just because they have one viral video which can absolutely happen to any creator doesn't necessarily mean that they can sell your product and it's a great fit. So that's something to consider as well. What about uh different commission structures? So you know some people just think oh I'll give them a flat commission. And we hear on Amazon the brand referral. So you get that 10 points. But can you tell us about some of the ones that are working now? Some of the unique ones that uh that uh creators are using. Mhm. So on Tik Tok shop I would say very bare minimum commission is 10% 15%. When you're getting and creators can also filter by commission amount like 30% or over and then they have different levels that they can filter by. So if you're on Tik Tok shop, very base 10%. That also goes for like other sites like creator connections on Amazon basic is 10%. But then on Tik Tok, I've also seen brands be like, "You get a 5% extra bonus if you do a live stream with the product or like the goalie strategy where they're like, if you make this much GMV, then we will give you a $500 bonus or an iPhone, AirPods, Lamborghini trip to Italy, whatever it is." So, there's different ways to still um motivate them to make more content, sell more without necessarily direct money out of the brand's budget. So, I've seen commission rates on both Tik Tok and Amazon upwards of 50%. Totally know most brands can't do that, but then you can also offer like 5 to 10% bonuses or GMV bonuses or even mix a flat fee with a commission basis. So, that works really, really well. And the flat fees are typically small, like $50 to $200 for a video or pieces of content plus 10%. Um, or of course, the big thing going on right now is retainer deals. So, I'll pay you $500 this month for 5 to 10 videos instead of one piece of content per creator. So yeah, if a brand finds a creator and they're selling well and they love the content and it was a good partnership, why would you move on to a brand new creator and start over? Just take that creator, be like, I would love to work with you more. Here's a slightly higher higher uh flat fee. Here is a slightly higher commission. Let's do five or 10 videos this month and see how it goes. Because also that creator's audience is getting more touch points. They're getting more experience. And also they can hopefully feature the product more organically. they can say, "Day five of using this product. Oh, I've seen them use it before. They must really like it." So, there's different strategies with it. And um I used to be a huge hater of commission only. I thought it wasn't fair until these commissions started really going up and people were making huge amounts of money. So, now I'm like big fan of commission. I think that's a area a lot of brands mess is like you just said, they go up to like 50% on the high end. I think they should go up to 100%. Um, it depends on No, they can. They actually can. Um, they just don't think of it right. I mean, just think about on from the Amazon world where people are doing search, find, buy. Yeah. And they're going out and they're paying a service, you know, refund uh, you know, like re one of the refund services or one of those services 15 20 bucks to actually just for the placement. Then they're paying uh the person would go buy the product and they would get some of that money back because of the the the margins in the product, but they lose some of it. But they're still paying quite a bit of money and and the they're launching a product. So if someone is launching a brand new product, look what go uh what uh like you just said, goalie is doing. They're going to weigh a million dollars at the top end. You do a million dollar in GMV, they give you a million dollars cash. That's 100%. Uh and you got to get there. And it's not just for everybody, but that's going to motivate some people. And I think brands need to and I wouldn't do this all the time, but I would do periods for like a launch period because social media is discovery. And you're trying to and and I know the halo effect can be if if set up properly can be 60 to 70% on Amazon alone. And so if if you're that's and you don't have to give any discounts, you don't have any a cost. You don't have anything. do your numbers and apply that there and give a damn 100 percent and then go out and make a game out of it like goalie is doing and and gify it and you could crush uh if you do this right but a lot of these guys they don't know how to approach them and I look at Norman I saw u the snow whitening guys uh at a conference last year and he was breaking down how he does and he has an affiliate army and I think there's like 50 people and there's people that come and go from that army and they add a little bit and somebody moves on but they that's basically their core or group that they go to. And I remember in the days of when I was doing a lot of shooting a lot of models with with Mark, our number one recruiting mechanism wasn't us going and emailing or calling or going to some show or some try to find another pretty pretty model. It was her friends. It was her people. And I don't think a lot of people don't utilize the network a lot of these creators have of of other people like them where if you treat one of them exceptionally well, if someone was that I just if I just hired you, Gracie, and I said, "Thank you so much for promoting my my my dog bed or whatever it is." Um, I I appreciate that. I I'm sending you a couple extra just so you can give to your mom and and your and your your sister because I saw on social media that uh your sister also has a dog. So, I want to take care of them. And then I and I sent you every month for 3 months. I found out that you like your dog likes uh duck treats. Duck feet. I sent you some duck feet. And I treat you like a human, like a part of the team, like someone that I care about. And then maybe at some point I bring you to on a trip or hey, 20 of us are getting together in Miami. You want to come down? You know, we'll cover your hotel and airfare and just come hang. Whatever it is, treat them like they want to be treated. And then you're going to go Kevin and Norm's company is so freaking amazing. Um, and you're going to meet somebody else that's crushing it and you're like, you should work for them. Um, because you might not, you probably won't see them as competition. They're two different yard, two different markets. That's I think an opportunity that very very few people are looking at from from this. They're just looking at dollars and cents on a piece of paper. And it's it's a massive mistake. And I think that Norm and I have Dragonfish. And it's basically combines three things. It's marketplaces, AI, and social commerce. Uh those three are the future. Uh and combine those together and that's what's going to rock. But you got to do it right. So what are your thoughts on what I I just espoused there? I think um if any brand thinks that treating an influencer or a creator well and they're not just like I so many I mean most most deals or partnerships do feel like you're just another like one of a million or like just dollars and cents on paper. So, I can name on one hand and probably with three fingers the amount of brands that have actually treated me well with, you know, keeping me in the loop with like sending whatever product I'm interested in and trying and then I can organically implement that into whatever I'm doing or somebody who's like kept in touch with me after a successful collaboration. And even people with like the Tik Tok shop affiliate opportunity. I'm seeing people like I made this much money so I got my sister and my mom started on it. Like that absolutely makes a difference because if you're treating one person right, everyone has a network. Everyone has family and friends. Like these are likeminded people to them. So you're right. If you're treating them well, if you're offering them product, if you're treating them more than just like one of a million names, that absolutely makes a difference. And as creators, if you're in the space, I know plenty of other creators. I know who does well. I know who doesn't do well. and I'm happy to recommend them as well if I love the brand. Um, so which cuts through all the clutter and all these email problems and all this. I mean, it takes a while to build this up. Sure. It's a relationship. Yeah. And that's and I would even go so far as if if I have a makeup line and you're using part of the makeup line and promoting us, but you just don't like our lipstick. You like uh some other brand's lipstick. I would actually send you that lipstick and say, "I know you don't like ours. Here's uh just I wanted to make sure you're happy. Here's the lipstick that you prefer. I'd send you a supply of it. Just little things on your but cuz that's not the norm. No, it's not. And that's how Yes, it is. That's the norm over there. This is the king. That's the norm. And but and so yeah, that's I think that's where we're going to have to get to to stand out. Yeah. And where the the brands are going to really win. And I I'm seeing a few big brands actually they're having they have a brand uh what do they not brand ambassador they have a brand coordinator or they're actually uh this girl Tiffany I think she has that in her company like one person their sole job is brand relationship it's not go hustle them and go get see how much you can squeeze them for see what they'll promote for free or for a discount it's like take care of them. Yeah. Uh, and whatever you got to do, do it because this is this is our bread and butter. And and I think that's what too many people are not willing to play that game. Correct. Uh, so many times, 99% of the time, you're treated like a tool, like a means to make money. If you don't make them a certain amount of ROI, you're worthless and useless and nothing to them. So, like I said, it's very very very rare that a brand approaches influencers or creators with this mindset because once you find a good one and you and you develop that long-term relationship that one relationship with one good creator can be can trump like 50 random influencers. So, you're right. Like it at the end of the day, you're dealing with people. You're creating hopefully long-term relationships and uh treating each other well is the very basics of it all. Are you looking to quickly boost new Amazon product launches or scale up existing listings to reach first page positioning? The influencer platform Stack Influence can help. That's right. Stack Influence pushes high volume external traffic sales straight to Amazon listings using micro influencers that you only have to pay with your products. They've helped upandcoming brands like Magic Spoon compete with Cheerios for top category positioning while also helping Fortune 500 brands like Unilver launch their new products. Right now is one of the best times to get started with Stack Influence. You can sign up at stackinfluence.com or click the link in this video down in the description notes below and mention misfits that's misfi to get 10% off your first campaign. stackinfluence.com. Well, I would even go so far as like the example you gave earlier, but look at that GMV. Maybe one of their things went viral and their other videos aren't so good. I know it's a numbers game. Maybe they did have one go viral and that's most of their GMV and they're putting out other stuff and it's just not working. But eventually something's going to work again for sure. And I would not just cut them. I would I would It's part of my budget. It's part of like, okay, they get samples, you know, that's just part of our cost of goods sold, right? as a 4% thing or whatever the number is that just like an advertising cost that we just absorb it and we we send out to them because I know even if they don't ever hit it again there someone in their neighborhood or someone at the soccer game with the kids or something is going to want that so or want to do something like oh you should try these guys and maybe they're they're the ones that's going to hit and you just let it let it feed itself rather than you all these people have struggling sending out thousands and thousands of emails just to to deaf ears. Correct. I agree with you. Yeah. One of the other things though along the same line, heavy discounts for recurring products. You know, if you if it's a one-off, okay, that's might be something to think about maybe during a launch. But if it's a beauty product and you're going to buy it or supplement every 30 days, why not give away a much higher or even 100% of the product the first time around? That's very true. I mean, plenty of the things that I use every day are repurchases, so it it definitely makes sense to discount the second purchase. I think that's like a huge like subscribe and save benefit. Um, yeah. And and a lot of times if you're giving out the first product for free and just like letting people discover it and they fall in love. And so many times I look at the product I use every day and those are the things that I gift to my friends or like buy for Christmas and like really recommend to people. And like, you know, girls talk. This is going to be a girl thing, but like girls talk. They're like, "Oh, what makeup are you wear? Where'd you get that shirt?" It's so it's so like organic to like take inspiration from like other people in your life, both online and in person. So yeah, this the whole word word of mouth is the most powerful way of showing somebody else a possible product to buy. I I don't ask Norm where he got his shirt, but I say, "Nor, where'd you get that cigar? Where did that Where'd you get that cigar? I want one of I I'm always curious about your thongs though, Kevin. They're very creative. Well, I do I do keep my shorts a little lower just for you. Those whale tales. Yeah. So, Gracie, as an as a as a creator, influencer affiliate, I don't think a lot of people understand how much work this is. I mean, yeah, some you get better at Cap Cut or whatever tool you're using or Premiere or whatever and over time you can shorten that window down of the editing. But how much time it takes to actually sit there and whether you're coming up with a script or they're sending you some talking points or whatever and then whichever way you like it and then you're having to film it, get creative and like what am I going to do with this and and then edit it and then put it out and then do a series of them. A lot of people don't realize the amount of work and effort that that takes. And you're just as disappointed when it gets seven views as the uh as the product uh person too, whether you're getting a flat fee or not. So So what can you explain so people understand what this what kind of work this really is? The most outdated mentality is like, oh, making a 30-se secondond video is so easy. Okay, do it then. So, it first of all, yesterday I was making a live stream and just the setting up of the live streaming, adding the products, adding the backdrop, setting up the lighting, that within itself was like an hour. But when we're talking about videos, a lot of it is not only planning and setting up, but a lot of it is like strategy and then you have the editing and then like the posting and repurposing. So there it's very much a process to do and a lot of it is it's funny when you somebody is filming a video and then you see the behind the scenes they might say the same thing 10 times in different tonalities in different ways different speed different like look and emotion. So then in the editing process you're like picking one out of 10 of what is the best way that I said the same thing. So that's just one part of it. But I think like the planning and the strategy is so underappreciated of how it can make a break or video a video. Um the things that I'm thinking about is like the lighting, the setup, what I'm wearing, how I'm going to phrase this, the hook. As much as it looks like somebody's just off the top of their head setting their phone down and just speaking, it's never that simple. So yeah, from the outside it probably does look that simple, but there is a whole slew of things. It it could be like a day's work to make one single video. That probably isn't the most efficient thing to do, but it absolutely is the way some videos have gone. So, um I it's it's not it's upsetting when a brand is like, "Oh, why can't you do this for free? It's just a little video." not knowing what goes behind it. I can tell that you've never made videos before and it's it's not the nicest thing to like be discredit of something that is such hard work and so and it's not only just like the actions of doing it. It's a lot of strategy and consideration and then like testing as well behind the scenes. I think a lot of the times uh the onus is on the the creator and they're not giving proper expectations. I've talked to a lot of different creators and the the the creator knows what to expect but it's not uh communicated properly to the brand. So the brand thinks, "Oh man, I'm going to get hundreds if not thousands of sales." And they don't know. and they don't know this is over time and and you're you're building a relationship with the creator, but I think there's got to be a with a lot of different creators too, a better way to communicate really what to expect so the brand understands it and they might go away saying, "Oh, you know, this is X number of dollars. I can't afford it." But at the same time, the expectations are met. Yeah. So with that, it's hard because even as the influencer creator, I can almost never guarantee or promise virality, hundreds or thousands of sales. I too am hoping for the best, doing my best that I know how to do and hopes to give you the thousands of sales, but it also might so might not. So, it's hard to um first of all, those expectations being set first and foremost is so important. If I can tell a brand is looking at me and saying like, the only way that we'll be leaving this partnership happy is if you create a thousand of sales, I would rather never work with you to begin with because I sleep better at night knowing I didn't disappoint somebody or that somebody didn't feel like they wasted their money working with me. I don't I don't take the check and like just haha like I'm not gonna get you sales. I would rather us both leave happy and like didn't regret working together. So setting the expectations very important. However, we both don't know the expectations. So if somebody is is saying like we need this many sales to be happy, I'm like then I can be like hey like let me manage the expectations a little bit. Maybe you want to work with somebody else or change the strategy a little bit. But um it's hard because as much as a creator wants to sell and wants to go viral, it is also never guaranteed. So that's hard too. That's why I think the retainer model is good because you find someone that you like that you work well with and then you just pay them 500 or,000 bucks a month or whatever the number is to create x number of videos and you may do that for five months and not much happens and but on month six something just goes crazy and it's all it's all paid for itself. Yeah. Another thing with that, you can set up the partnership so that even if the sales aren't the target, you still get a lot of out of it. So like for a retainer deal like you just mentioned, you could say, "Hey, I want ownership of the content." So even if you're getting like minuscule sales, you still have so much content at the end of the retainer, end of the partnership that you can then as the brand use it on your own socials, boost it with it on Amazon Inspire, right? Yeah. Uh that's gone. No, that's joking. It's gone. You got me. Good guess. When when you're setting up for that one video or whatever it is, are you targeting a specific look for Tik Tok or Amazon Live? Well, that's a little different. Instagram, any of these. Are you making more than one format? H the best way that I've planned it out myself to make the most out of one piece of content is to do Tik Tok style. So like frame it in the style of Tik Tok and it will perform well on every other platform. If you do different kinds of styles like let's say like I do real style that doesn't perform on Tik Tok. If I do YouTube short style it doesn't perform on other platforms. if I do like a clip of a live stream like maybe clip 30 seconds of it that might be interesting but it's still not going to be performing on Tik Tok and also Tik Tok is the best top of funnel. So after considering like okay what is the best bang for my time Tik Tok style repurpose on every other shorts platform. So yeah it's it's interesting how uh even reals have like a slightly different feel. It could be a 30-se secondond short form vertical video, but it still has a different feel. Reals are a little bit more aesthetic. They're a little bit more tutorial howto instead of like Tik Tok messy just like you're in bed, no makeup, like hair bonnet on and you're just like speaking into the void. That will not perform on Instagram reels because it has a different look and a different vibe. So does shorts. So does LinkedIn video. So does every other platform. So, I say Tik Tok style and then repurpose onto everything else. Do do you do homework on your clients? So, a client sends you like, "Hey, I've got this um this product. I want you to promote it. Here's a couple bullet points. Uh I'm I'm sure some brands might give you a whole dossier and like break it all down, but do you go and like, all right, I want to make this work cuz I got I got some skin in the game here with my commission. I need to figure out who their avatar is. I'm going to go use an AI tool to download all their other videos. See which ones have been working, which hooks have been working. See what hooks in this industry have been working. Uh using some other AI tools. All right. Now, I got a plan. I'm going to do my video and I'm going to This is going to really give it a chance at success. Do you do anything along those lines? Um at all, uh because I know most influencers or creators don't. Absolutely. Uh so many times, not so many times, but like there have been times where I've said yes to something, just like agreed to something before doing the research and then found that like oh like they have really bad reviews on Amazon. Maybe they're low stock. Maybe they're listing looks like crap and then I'm driving my traffic there. So this is a disservice on both sides. I'm driving traffic to a listing that's not going to convert and then the the brand doesn't get the sales they want. So, I'm I have to do so much due diligence now of like what does the listing look like, reviews, photos, um does it have enough stock even. And then on top of that, I'm also looking up their brand of what other creators and what other videos are out there on Instagram, Tik Tok, YouTube, whatever it may be. And I'm also using that not only for like research about the brand to see like how can I frame this? What's the best thing to do? But like research on how to make my hooks, how like what's the aspect of this product that actually sells? I was talking about like mouth tape the other day with somebody and they were like, I don't understand why mouth tape went viral. I can pinpoint and tell you exactly what the selling points of that mouth tape is that actually made people buy it. And no, it wasn't about better sleep. So even there's a product and it might have like a very obvious selling point that might not be what's selling the product. So this is all stuff I have to consider before saying yes to something because saying yes prematurely has bit me in the but before they call that psychology, right? I think that's something that you might have uh taken a look at or been interested in the something something I can never spell the word but I think they they pronounce it psychology. Physiology. Physiology here. Just real quick before we wrap up, uh um what is what's your opinion on AI influencers? The AI where you have AI generated UGC content and you have some of these tools. It was pretty janky for a while. It's getting better and better and better. What What do you see the future where you can take uh Gracie and have Gracie AI that's that's doing a lot of this stuff and most people can't uh won't be able to tell a difference? This is interesting. Um, gosh, Kevin, I want to pick your brain about Google V3 because I've been absolutely baffled by those videos. But in terms of AI influencers, I've actually seen one brand do extremely well with it. Like they use AI kind of like um green screen, but like with like an AI person and he looks like he's uh maybe like a news anchor, like maybe a doctor selling a supplement. I don't know about the ethics of that, but has I have I seen it work? Yes. but not in the traditional way that people have like think thought that AI influencers would work. Like it's you can kind of tell it's very very uh obvious to tell when you're using an AI influencer in a certain way when they're like speaking directly to the camera. Um I I know that there's an account on Tik Tok that their whole spiel is just an AI person sitting in the car and they're going and like it's like, "Oh, I didn't know that this product was on sale today." And like that's like the whole video and they gone viral plenty of times, probably made a bunch of money. Um, I have heard also the opinion that things are swaying so AI that will like sway back to wanting human authenticity and like how AI can never really fully be as human as humans humans want. Um, so have I seen it work in specific situations? Yes. Do I think you can just make an AI avatar and and sell something out without really like perfecting it? No. Could we get there? Maybe. I think it's coming al. It's moving along. It's still, like you said, like the O and But there's there's tools now that will look at all your videos that you've done or you can sit down for 3 hours and go through it, but it'll look at all your mannerisms. You just put your hand through your hair a minute ago and then you you did this and all your movements. It will capture them all and encapsulate them in there. All your mouth movements, all your eyes, your eye, everything. And I agree with you that I think that's going to be a great tool to use for testing. Yeah. And so I I think where that's going to come in is if I want to test a hundred different positioning statements or 100 different hooks or whatever, I'm going to take that and I'm going to put that out there, a hundred of them. Yeah. And put a little bit of money behind them on Meta or on Tik Tok or whatever it is because Tik Tok's going much less organic now and much more paid. Um they're making that transition. So, and figuring out, okay, these are the three that worked. You can figure that out in two or three days with $10, $20 per thing. And then coming back to for that authenticity and saying, Gracie, look, we just tested all this stuff. These are the three that worked. I don't expect you to do exactly what this video did, but these are the hooks that work. This is the stuff now. Now, make it you. And I think that's going to be a super powerful thing. Um, that the smart influencers like Mr. beast and he's already doing some of this or Diary of a CEO or some of those guys that they're doing some of this in the podcasting world too. It can be massively beneficial. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It's it's not as simple as people have made AI influence out to be, but I think with the testing and with the combination of like doing stuff like mixing in certain clips or like doing something a certain way, it it does work. It can work. I've seen it. But it's not as simple as like let me just generate an avatar, make them say some random AI script, and like sell out. So yeah. Yeah, it's coming. It's coming and it's coming quickly. Probably faster than we all think. Another thing that's kind of scary is like the AI chat bots with like, you know, let's say like some famous person that you want to talk to, they'll have like an AI chatbot that has learned their personality. Character.ai is big on that. do it on Meta and like I can make through Instagram my own chat fake AI person and that's interesting too to see if I know people are making money with that for people who like want to pay to chat to somebody but that'll be interesting too the chat box hey Kevin King and Norm Ferrar here if you've been enjoying this episode of marketing misfits thanks for listening this far continue listening we got some more valuable stuff coming up be sure to hit that subscribe button. If you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player, or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify, make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of The Marketing Misfits. Have you subscribed yet, Norm? Well, this is an old guy alert. Should I subscribe to my own podcast? Yeah, but what if you forget to show up one time and it's just me on here? You're not going to know what I say. I'll I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair, too. We'll just You can go back and forth with one another. Yikes. But that being said, don't forget to subscribe, share it. Oh, and if you really like this content, somewhere up there there's a banner. Click on it and you'll go to another episode of the Marketing Misfits. Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm. All right, we are at the top of the hour and Gracie. Yes, at the end of every podcast, we always have one question for our misfit. Do you know a misfit? I do. And I did research as to like, has this person been on the podcast yet? Have they been on? So, I found one person and I think it's valuable because it kind of ties into what we talked about today and we all know him. It's Bradley Sutton. But I think I'm saying this because I know that he's working on some like really good tools that would be really really useful for sellers especially like implementing Tik Tok and like discovering influencers. I think they're working on some cool stuff like for example understanding that Tik Tok is a product discovery platform and still there's a huge amount of people that are discovering on Tik Tok but buying on Amazon and we haven't been able to track that accurately of like the halo effect up until now hopefully is working on something like that and like that would be really cool if there's a tool that can do that. So all right well we will reach out to them. Okay, cool. So, how do people get a hold of you? Uh, before you go here, they send where do they send the check if they want to hire? Right. I'll give my to anyone interested. No. Um, my email is contactcheats.com. My socials are dealats on all platforms. And uh, yeah, that's it. If you need me. Fantastic. Okay. Appreciate it, Gracie. Thanks. Thank you guys. It's awesome to see you. Awesome to chat. Yes, you too. All right. I even let Norm ask more than one question. I know. You're giving him more more leeway, huh? I'm giving him I'm giving him a little bit more rope. It's like It's like he always says, "How long is a piece of string?" Right, Norm? Yep. How long is a piece of string? He gave me that much more today. I felt so good. All right, Gracie. We'll see you later. See you. Appreciate it. Thanks for coming on. that much that much you you that that much. But hey, uh social commerce and social media, man, it's it's changing rapidly and AI is affecting it. But there's still a lot of people that aren't paying attention to it and they just haven't had gone around to doing it. Um but you need to uh cuz it's whether Tik Tok stays or goes, it's still the power it has if done properly is is ridiculous. Uh and it needs to be a part of every brand strategy. That's why it's part of uh one of the core things in Dragonfish that we're doing. And who knows, uh Gracie might be helping on on some of that stuff as well. Um and her team. So, pay attention to what Gracie just said. And she gave some really good stuff for those of you listening on how to deal with with creators and how to what they're looking for and how to how to actually make it give yourself a better chance of it working. cuz I hear so many people we didn't even get into all the software companies now that help connect you know the stack influencer Levant and those kind of people that help uh influencers and product seller brands connect and but it's a it's a huge industry uh and it's only going to get uh only going to get bigger as time goes on but Norm if if as time goes on if people need something to talk now listen to what do they listen to well they listen to marketingmfits.co co or the podcast marketing misfits and they it's on every uh on every podcast platform and we also have a YouTube uh we have two YouTube uh channels Kevin we have marketing misfits podcast and we have marketing misfits clips and these are all the short nuggets that we extract from every podcast what kind of stuff they going to hear if they they go listen what what's some examples of stuff they're going to hear if they listen to the podcast usually you just Yeah. Okay. Well, that that's a good reason to listen. If you if you if you like the sound of my voice, um uh then then go and listen to the I usually say, "Kevin, does your voice get on your nerves, too?" But obviously not. Only when I hear it back in recordings. That's why I never never watch any anything that we do. I'm like, "Nope, that's annoying." No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. But hey, we'll be back next Tuesday with another episode of the Marketing Misfits. We got an awesome set of guests lined up. I was just looking at the schedule the other day. The guests are I mean, we've always had good guests, but they just keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger as far as how well known they are. Uh so, uh we got some got some really uh smart people coming up. Um and we got smart people in the in the archives. So, go back and check out at marketingmfits.co or the YouTube channel or Apple podcast or Spotify, wherever you listen, and check out some of the old episodes. There's there's some really good uh gems in there. 62 under our belt. There we go. 62. Oh, wow. That's uh that's almost almost as old as you. It is. Oh, this is when I start to go down. You know, I want to be in my 50s again. No, no, no. The the podcast is getting better. This is where you, you know, things start getting better and better at, you know, at 62. That's other way of looking at it. You just got to frame it differently. That's right. All right, everybody. We will see you next Tuesday. Thanks for joining us. All right. Take care.