The Viral Strategy No One Talks About (Rachel’s Secret) | Rachel Miller | MMP #024

The Viral Strategy No One Talks About (Rachel’s Secret) | Rachel Miller | MMP #024 Speaker 1: A lot of times we like to think about the problems that our product solves and we like to tell people about the benefits of that product and the problems and the features and people don't really care about that. They care about who am I and how does this product identify me. Unknown Speaker: You're watching The Marketing Misfits with Norm Farrar and Kevin King. Kevin King: Senor Farrar, it's good to see you again on another week, another episode of The Marketing Misfits. Norm Farrar: Yeah, I'm kind of feeling like a misfit. I've been watching some of these episodes and I love what I'm seeing. I don't know if you, you know, tell me something. Do you go back and watch it after it's been edited? Kevin King: I rarely do. I rarely watch any of my stuff. I've probably been on 250, 300 podcasts. I might have seen three or four of them. I've probably been on even like Freedom Ticket and all the different trainings. I've done hundreds of hours of trainings. The podcast, no, I rarely. Usually the first one or two, like the first one we did with Katie and something like that, or if there's someone that I may go back and maybe I'm listening to it with them. I'm driving somewhere in the car or there's a really good one. When I was married, I told my wife, hey, we got to listen to this one with a so-and-so or something. Norm Farrar: With Norm? Kevin King: You know norms. Those are boring. We do those in 5X. It's just to get to the point really quick because that cuts out all the anyways and all those kinds of things. Norm Farrar: Such a prick. Hold it, hold it. Let me get this out of my chest. Does your voice annoy you too? Kevin King: It does. That's why I don't listen to them. Norm Farrar: Ah, there we go. Kevin King: That's why I don't go back and listen to them. Norm Farrar: I had to say it. Kevin King: That's why I don't go back and listen to them. It annoys me. Norm Farrar: It's really interesting because I'm one of those people that you go back and you look at your first podcast. With AM, PM or with Lunch with Norm, you go back and the studio is different. Just the way that you're talking and you're delivering and you're interviewing. But with what we're doing now, I guess with so many hundreds of podcasts under our belts, for me at least, it's so different being able to talk to the guests and just getting all this information. It's fantastic. If you haven't listened to all the podcasts, go back, start with Katie Wells, and you'll be blown away. Kevin King: My chef, I think I just sent you a screenshot the other day. Chad, shout out if you're listening. You've met him in my house. You met him at the Think Tank that we did in Austin, the Market Masters. But he listens to, I think when he's cooking for his different clients, because like every day he goes and cooks in someone else's house. And so I think when he's doing that, sometimes he's listening to talk radio or something. Other times he's listening to podcasts. And one of them that he listens to is Marketing Misfits. And he's constantly texting saying, hey, that was a great episode with so-and-so. He probably won't say that today. The guest today is, I don't know, but I'm just kidding. I'm just totally kidding. No, we have an awesome guest today. Probably one of the best guests we have. One of the smartest people that I know, but he listens to them and then he'll comment like, oh, that was a great report. I really loved your stories that you and Norm were telling on this one. And sometimes, you know, we do these with guests. And so if you're new, sometimes it's just Norm and I talking marketing, talking business, talking stories. So you never know what you never know what you're going to get. Today, I don't think you guys know what you're going to get because this is someone, well, I think I first saw her speak maybe at a traffic inversion or somewhere years ago. I was like, that's a sharp cookie. Then I didn't see her again until I joined Driven Mastermind, or maybe I saw her at a convention here in passing or something. But then when I joined Driven Mastermind with Perry Belcher, Which is one of these $35,000 a year masterminds. We get together four times a year, basically every three months in person. And there's weekly calls and all this. You're in a couple of these too. And she's in that one. And I got to know her a little bit better. I was like, man, this girl is sharp. She's up to some really good stuff. Not only is she a brilliant social media person, she's just a good human being. And she's actually a really good, I'm a developer. I mean, she's not the one in there. I mean, I think she does code a little bit, but she's put together some amazing software. Just a really cool person. I'm super excited to have her. And she's got tons of stories and tons of experience. Norm Farrar: Yeah. So let me tell you about my experience. I had an experience and I really thought she was just kicking me to the curb. So we'd emailed Rachel and Never heard anything back, never heard anything back. And it was just finally, ah, well, you know, I guess we're just the little guys. Yeah, I wanted her on my podcast. And so we're at an event. You and me were at DealCon. And this lady walks up to me and says, she's Rachel. I went, Rachel Miller? And she goes, yeah. And I said, you're the one. And so that's the first time I met her. And we, we started to talk and we hit it off. So that's our guest, by the way, today. I guess, you know, I didn't come off too bad over at deal.com because she's actually on the podcast. So I'm going to let her tell her story. Kevin King: She answers your emails now. Norm Farrar: No, no, no. I have to go through you. Kevin King: Well, sometimes it's good to be the king. Norm Farrar: Yeah, exactly. I'm just a prince. Okay. So let's bring her on, Rachel Miller. Speaker 1: Hello. Hello, Norm. And I'm so sorry. I'm so bad at email, but we actually lost access to our email for a little while. Norm Farrar: Oh, that's too bad. Well, Rachel, before we go any further, can you tell us just a little bit about yourself? Speaker 1: Oh, guys, I'm Rachel. I started growing businesses back in 2011. I'm just as annoying and loud and intense in person as I am on podcast. And I got to grow up, I guess, three, four weeks ago when I had my email attack. Norm Farrar: That's horrible. I've known about you for a long time. And one of the things that, uh, that I've seen, you've got a course and you are really great at growing communities. Your ability to do that is, is, is really second to none. Speaker 1: Oh, thank you. Yeah, we've had a lot of fun. We've had 27, 28,000 students go through our programs now, and we've grown some insanely huge communities. Insanely huge. Norm Farrar: Was it insanely huge? Speaker 1: Well, I mean, when you think, OK, think of yourself like how many of you guys live in a town that has less than 100,000 people in it? The town I grew up in had like 20,000 people in it, which I thought was like a decent sized city until I moved to where I am now. And it's like two point nine million people in my town. And to think I actually have one audience that has 4 million people in it, which is more than the city I live in. And like my smallest audience has more people than the city I grew up in. Like that's just mind blowing to me that that many people can recognize who I am or that I've impacted with like a conversation and interaction. That's just, yeah, no, I can't. It is mind blowing. Kevin King: So you can't go to the grocery store then without being recognized. Speaker 1: I did have a period where actually I did go to the grocery store and have people follow me and say that was Rachel, and it was a little, oh, the worst one. The grocery store was an annoying one, but the worst one. I have teenage daughters, and I know, Norm, you've got teenagers who've now kind of grown the house a little bit. I'm at, anybody else here have teenage daughters? And sometimes your teenage daughters may choose to wear something that you're not exactly in favor of them wearing. And it's not that I'm like, Body shaming my child, but like, no, you don't get to wear that outside the house. Like, you are 14, you're not 18. And when you're 18, you can choose to wear that. Right now, I'm not buying that for you. Kevin King: No, okay? Speaker 1: Anyways! So I'm in the like Kohl's or I don't know whatever discount Marshalls. Yeah, some cheap dress plays and she's buying something and I'm literally in the process of saying, no, you are not wearing that. There's no way you're getting out of that. No, that dress is not happening. And I'm having this like argument with my then 14 year old who wants to go to homecoming about this dress. And there's a man and his, maybe a man and his daughter, a man and his wife who are standing there watching me. And they're standing there watching me and they wanted to get a selfie with me. And I was like, They saw the whole argument. So that was about the time when I was like, maybe I should have less of a presence online. And so I did actually take my face back a little bit because I was like, this is a little annoying. That one was a little annoying. Unknown Speaker: Read the room, buddy. Read the room. Speaker 1: Maybe don't join the conversation where I'm telling my daughter she can't have that dress. Kevin King: Being recognized is something that comes with it when you're, but that's a good thing and a bad thing. So when you're actually trying to grow yourself as a personal brand, being recognized means it's working. I mean, like you said, the audience is bigger than your hometown. You're old hometown and your current hometown. But at the same time, that also is a liability because now you're the face of the company. And if you mess up or you do something inadvertently or someone accuses you of something that you didn't even do, it can take the whole company down just by association. And it makes it hard for you to sell the company at some point if you're the face of that company. So from a marketing point of view, there's a catch-22 on both sides. A lot of times, Startups, you want to be the face because you want that recognition. You want people to acknowledge this for what you've done. You want that. But then you got to start guiding yourself out of that position and let someone else be the face of the company or have a made up face of the company like Aunt Jemima or whatever some of these companies do. What's your thoughts on that from a marketing point of view? Speaker 1: I know for me, we actually did try to sell my business with my face on it. And I brought in one business partner who was going to work me out of it. And he was going to raise his face and lower mine. And it got to something where he's wanting me to say things that weren't necessarily what I wanted to say. Does that make sense? But now under contract, He's going to acquire my company in 12 months. And now for like the next two years, I'm required to say what he wants me to say. And about two months into that, I was like, you know, this is not going to be working because like. You lose a little bit of autonomy whenever you go to sell. So that was actually one of the pivotal moments. I'd probably say there were maybe three or four. One of the pivotal moments that told me, one, I want to get out of personal branding, a personal brand-based business. And here I am on your podcast with my face out there again. But I'm doing less of these than I was at the time. There was a time when I was traveling one week out of the year and traveling two speaking events every month. And now I'm doing much fewer of them. So that was one of the things that made me want to decrease. But then the other thing was seeing that, oh, if I try to sell this company, I'm like tied to it. And now somebody else is like controlling the ethics of my face, the ethics of my brand. And not that he was asking me to do something that was wrong. It was just something that I didn't feel comfortable with. Does that make sense? And so it didn't fit with what I pictured, how I wanted to be perceived and how I wanted to portray myself. And so that's a really hard thing to get yourself out of when you're a personal brand. So I decided to start building a software company because I love algorithms and what the algorithm that builds a community is the same algorithm that helps people find results in anything. And honestly, it's the same algorithm That Janelle was talking about in your last, I don't know which podcast to go was, where she was talking about how simple scales and you want to brand stuff more simply. And you need to communicate as, like she said, as a teacher, you communicate, you simplify a story. That simplification and that ability to connect a story to people is something that builds community fast. And also you can apply to other parts of your business. You can apply that to creating amazing products on Amazon because you can tell the story of how someone would use this cheese slicer in a different way because it's really good with hard cheeses like Parmesan cheeses when all the other cheese slices out there are working on cheddar and muenster. And so you can tell the story of the product and how it simplifies something for someone's life. That same gift I applied to software and built an easy button that I think is the best thing in the market. And it blows my socks off. But yeah. Kevin King: What about with AI though now? I mean, to that point of you being the face with this guy, with AI now, you could step away and AI could keep being you for the next 100 years. You never age, you never anything, nothing would happen. It could just keep being you and your voice and your style. How do you think that's going to affect marketing and people from this point of view of being the face of the company? Speaker 1: Could you imagine if I had AI then? Because he could have just forced my voice to be saying those things. Kevin King: Yeah. Speaker 1: That I was like, but, but I'm not, and I contractually, I did sign, I had to like work my out stuff out of it. I did say, yeah, I was going to do X, Y, Z. And I was like, wait a minute. Like, that's what you want me to? No, that's not what I actually agreed to. Like, let's, let's revisit this. How can we, how can we figure this back out? Because this doesn't feel right to me. And like I said, he's a great, he's a great human. But my point is, um, AI could have had seven minutes because that's all it really takes of me talking, which we're going to get seven minutes just from this podcast episode. He could have captured that, captured my mannerisms. And yes, he could create an AI engine. And then he would have the rights to my voice and my voice patterns. And he could have had my voice saying all of those things. Norm Farrar: But that's something we got to look at nowadays, because when you're when you're out there ready to sell your business and it's a personal brand, Or if you're trying to move out of that personal brand, one of the things you got to look at is who owns your identity. You know, your voice. Kevin King: That was the whole Hollywood thing that just went down in a strike a year ago. It's like, who owns what? And how do we get compensated for this and that? Norm Farrar: Now that might be an extra zero that they have to add on, right? If they just want to take the company and then all of a sudden just repurpose and repurpose you and you're still the face of the company, maybe that goes into the negotiations. You know, I haven't really thought too much about it, but That might be a major factor moving forward for owner-based businesses. Kevin King: And you just thought it was going to be lunch with Kelsey one day. It's going to be lunch with Norm forever on your other podcast, Norm. Norm Farrar: Yes. Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody can ever replace Norm. One thing, though, I love about AI, well, that is an ethical thing, as in making the videos and deep faking yourself in a company. That, to me, feels like a gray area. I do appreciate that AI can make life faster and easier. So there are times when I have used AI to change a welcome video. So when I hold my hand over my mouth and say, welcome, Sally or Sue or whatever, and AI while my hands here changes the words and says the person's name, whoever it is, it's opening up the email. So there are some circumstances where I feel like AI is a tool and like can help me, but where AI, I don't want to have like This is Rachel the coach video answering them because for me, I feel like that could almost detract from my trust with my audience. I build with AI and I still want to make sure I protect the trust that they have so they'll know if it's an AI video, it's not Rachel. Not that people can tell what an AI video is as much anymore, but yeah. Kevin King: Yeah, you're right. On the voice and online newsletter, I have AI that actually creates an audio podcast version of my newsletter. So I send out a newsletter every Monday and Thursday to the Amazon community. It's pretty popular. Tactical, actionable stuff, not some marketing emails. Like most people said, and I actually have a guy, he's in London. He has a company that he set up. He's kind of new, but I sent him the newsletter about midnight on a, you know, on Sunday night for the Monday morning release and Wednesday night for the Thursday. And because of the time difference, you know, he's up at seven in the morning. So while I'm still sleeping, he's converting that. And he sampled three or four episodes of The Marketing Misfits, sampled a few of my AM PM podcasts, a couple of others, and create this whole model of my voice. And it's me reading it. But the problem is it's cool and a lot of people love it. It's like a 10-minute version so people can read it or listen to it while they're in the car or at the gym or on the train or whatever or walking the dog. And a lot of people are liking it, but it's a little bit robotic still, but the software, you know, 11 labs and there's some out there that are good, but the software is getting to the point now where like there's one called Ditto.ai. I don't know if you've messed with Ditto or not, but this one is like game changing where it can actually do emotion and it can actually take your voice and do emotion. All the ups and downs. You have a lot of emotion and animation in your voice. It can actually mimic all that instead of just being this flat tone. And then it can do other languages and move your lips to those languages. It can make you speak in your voice and your tone and your emotions in Spanish and German and all this stuff with your lips moving to it. It's pretty cool where it's going. Speaker 1: I didn't use Ditto.ai, but Neuro Video and Synthesia, they both do that and I've tested both of those and I've been just wowed at what's possible now. Norm Farrar: You know what I like? I just have to say this, that ever since 11 Labs came out, Kevin sends me usually once or twice, usually on the weekend, these bedtime stories and they're in his voice. They actually move me quite a bit. Kevin King: He loves it. I just go on and chat GPT and just talk about teddy bears with gummies. That's it. He told me a story about the teddy bear going on the gummy adventure into winter wonderland and Norm's like, this is perfect. Norm Farrar: I'm set. Then he has a teddy bear smoking cigars. Speaker 1: Now you're telling me I just need to make sure as a thank you gift for you guys, send you a big old giant box of gummy bears. Kevin King: That's him, not me. I don't touch them. That's Norm. That's Norm. And now a word from one of our sponsors, one of Norm and I's favorite tools, Stack Influence. Norm Farrar: Are you looking to quickly boost new Amazon product launches or scale up existing listings to reach first page positioning? The influencer platform Stack Influence can help. Stack Influence pushes high-volume external traffic sales to Amazon listings using micro-influencers. And guess what? You only have to pay with your products. They've helped up-and-coming brands like Magic Spoon compete with Cheerios for top category positioning, while also helping Fortune 500 brands like Unilever launch their new products. Right now is the best time to get started with Stack Influence to crush it during this holiday season. Kevin King: That's right, Norm. Sign up today at StackInfluence.com or click the link in the video below and mention Misfits. That's right. Misfits. M-I-S-F-I-T-S to get 10% off your first campaign. Head over to StackInfluence.com right now. But there's another cool tool out there too, Norm. Have you played with the new Google tool that's in beta? Do you know what I'm talking about? Norm Farrar: Yeah. I know what you're talking about. Kevin King: No, no. I'm asking Rachel. I'm asking Rachel. Speaker 1: It's a workbook one and it makes the... Kevin King: Yeah. It's called Notebook LM. Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. Kevin King: Yeah. It's mind-blowingly amazing what it can do. I just did it with Norm and someone showed it to me. I read about it about a month ago and then someone actually took one of my newsletters, took a story and threw it in there and it actually created a podcast between two characters. Where they discuss that story and it's so natural with the pauses and the reality and it extends off of it. It's crazy good. And Google put it out more as a study aid, more for educators and teachers to help them help students like that was the original intent. But people are starting to use it for a lot of different things. It's caught Google off guard and it may have something here. This is what we didn't want. We wasn't what we originally intended for. So they're expanding it now where you can add Add in additional voices. Right now it's two fixed voices, a man and a woman. But if you haven't played with that, go play with it. It's freaking mind-blowing amazing. It's more fascinating to me than a driverless car that's going around Austin with no person inside. I saw three of them today. Speaker 1: That actually would be really good for somebody who has like blog posts and they want to make it into long form YouTube content and they can then add B-roll over that. And there's actually AI B-roll tools that will actually go in and add B-roll based off of the topics that's being shared. That's a game changer for B-roll videos. Kevin King: I just told you, that's a good point she just made right there. Norm, remember at BDSS in Hawaii, Melissa Vong, she's going to be on The Marketing Misfits in a couple of weeks. She's an amazing marketer, Amazon person in social media, but she showed, remember the video She showed of how to do these viral videos where it's just taking something. It's almost like a Japanese animation kind of thing. You're just flying through a freaking building and up through a rocket ship and into space and whatever and she was putting words on the bottom and it keeps people engaged and keeps them watching. Remember that? That could be how you take what we were talking about and actually convert to video with the Google tool and actually put it on that. People will stay engaged. It engages their mind and their eyes while they're listening to these cool stories of those characters talking. And that could be something that could be really cool. That's right in line. Rachel didn't even know we talked about that or didn't even know about Melissa. She just like, that's how smart she is. She just like snap that off the top of her head. Like, oh, this is what you should do. Norm Farrar: Sometimes it's just distractions. I don't know if you have it in the States still, but what's it called? Stingray. It's just music. You can play it on your TV. I know you guys have a completely different setup down there, but for us, we have Rogers and we turn it on. You can listen to any station. What do they do? They just put on this psychedelic, Whatever it is, and you're just watching and listening to music, and it's just something that distracts you. I don't know how many times a night you're listening. Kevin King: That's when you're smoking, right Norm? Norm Farrar: Yeah, that's when I'm having my gummy bears. Unknown Speaker: By the way, they're just gummy bears. Speaker 1: I got the vibe that Norm likes to listen to elevator music. Norm Farrar: You get hooked. I could be watching the classical. Speaker 1: That's actually pretty cool. Well, you can use something like that though to make the background music. Norm Farrar: Yeah, absolutely. Kevin King: And now all these AI tools where you can be your own producer. You can do all kinds of cool stuff. You can just dictate. I want a song that sounds like this and has these keys and has this and that. And it will act like a music producer and produce it. You tell it which instruments to use and how to mix them and you can be your own Beethoven. I own Composer and actually do some really cool stuff. I don't know if you played with any of those audio tools that are out there. Speaker 1: My son's playing with one of those. It's like a garage band AI version and he has made actual music with it. I don't know if it's worth playing for the world because he's like 13 and it's in acquired taste, but he is actually making music. Kevin King: Yeah, it's crazy. In today's world, that's how musicians are coming up. I mean, they're not coming up the old way of record labels and MTV and getting record plays, you know, on the radio where salesmen had to go out and do deals, take people out to dinner and radio stations are going to play. Now it's YouTube. You look at, what's it? Chapel Roan? Who's hot right now. I mean, she's just at ACL Fest in Austin. And ACL Fest is over two weekends, 400,000 people. It's one of the biggest music festivals in the US. And it's over two different weekends. The first weekend was just last week when we're recording this and the next ones this week. She was scheduled to be on a Saturday. And they when they made the schedule and the contracts was like eight months ago. And so As it got closer, there's no way we can put her on the secondary stage on a Saturday. She's blown up so big because of TikTok. Uh, that we need to move her to a main stage and then do a Lipa. Lipa or Lipa or however you say her name is also there. And she had something like, no, I don't want to sit on the same day as her because they're almost like conflicting audiences or similar audiences. So they had to work something out where they move some stuff around, pay a bunch of money to actually move her to a Sunday. And then last Sunday was when she performed here and I saw drone footage. It was like insane. Like she had more people there than Some of the biggest bands I've ever performed are The Rolling Stones or The Who or Michael Jackson or whoever in the past, or even Taylor Swift. It was insane. People were just blown away. And that's the power now of technology and AI and in marketing. And if you look at Taylor Swift from a marketing point of view, she's one of the most brilliant marketers. I mean, she's a good songwriter. Whether you like her music or not, or that's your thing, she's a really good songwriter. And she's a brilliant, whoever's on her marketing team, I think it's her and a group, it's brilliant marketing. Brilliant marketing. Brilliant, for sure. I mean, if someone needs to break that down, it should be a whole class, a whole semester on Taylor Swift at Harvard and MIT and the MBA school. It's brilliant. Speaker 1: What's most brilliant about her is how in-depth she is in knowing her customers avatar. She knows her audience. She knows what they think, what they want. She knows how to get them to take action because she like gets into their head at such a deep, deep level. Kevin King: How do you think she's done that? What do you think the tactic is that she, how do you think she's, because she's 34 now and her audience is primarily teenage, young, preteen and teenage girls primarily. And now by default, sometimes they're father and mother because they take them to the concerts. But what, what, what is it that you think that she's done to do that? Speaker 1: I think she's, she's worked very hard to keep in the mindset of that teenager who's lost in love. So notice how she had a little bit of a slump in her career. And okay, I'm doing this because I'm my daughter actually is a Swifty. So I've like studied it with my daughter as my daughter's obsessed with it. And my daughter's 18. So she's on the I don't know if she's on the tail end of the thing because my niece who's 24 also is a Swifty. But it's at 13 to 24 ranges where they They seem to be. And she's done really, really well. When she was in that relationship that she had with Joe, Joe, that was his name. You could see that her marketing actually went down a little bit with her long-term relationship and how it's popped back up almost with this I'm falling in love stuff. I think she's really good at going in tune with her audiences, like where they are at their stage of life and what they want the world to think and feel about them. Norm Farrar: She also got a few extra million soon as she started going out with Travis Kelsey. Speaker 1: I don't know if it helped, like she was doing the heiress tour at the same time. Kevin King: I don't know if, I don't think Travis- I don't think she got a bunch of new people. I think she got some, but what, who got new eyeballs is NBC. And at first they were downplaying it. They were like, no, we're not going to show her up in the booth. And now they, it's like mandated. I saw this, it's like five or something. Every time she's at there, it's like five. Cutaways to her because they know that there's these Swifties like your daughter may watch the Chiefs game Just to see that and she's wearing the shirt just to see that and to see what she's wearing I just saw something yesterday that whatever the game she just went to last weekend was $57,000 worth of wardrobe and you know, they're breaking it down her bracelet was this designer $2,000 her shoes were this her skirt was this or this was that and But somebody, she mentioned something, it was a handbag or something that she had. It's like a $300 handbag. And she had just, her stylist, I think had picked it. And I saw a TikTok video of the people that were actually, who make this bag. It's not a big designer bag. It's some like local designer. And they show in their warehouse full of like 40,000 orders going out or some crazy freaking number of these things. This is the Taylor Swift effect. And I thank you so much for actually mentioning it. And someone did a used AI that was on the NBC. They screenshotted it or whatever. Threw it into AI. What is this? AI did a reverse image match and said, oh, this is this little Shopify site. And it just blew it up. Speaker 1: And they're- The girl with the face, the face glitter. So she put face glitter on her as a tattoo thing. And the girl who had it had like 3,500 orders before the game was over. Norm Farrar: Wow. Kevin King: Yeah, the power of this is incredible. And I think I saw that the way they got this purse to her, this handbag to her was that The company just randomly sent it to her makeup artist or stylist or something. Instead of sending it to her, they sent it to like seven or eight months ago. They sent us a gift with a little note like, we just want to give this to you. And I guess the stylist or makeup artist, whichever one, they probably get a bunch of this stuff. And they're like, oh, this one's pretty cool. And they just threw it in the box, threw it in the suitcase and just, oh, this one. Oh, here we got something that matches your outfit. Pull it out and boom. It's crazy the impact that that has. I mean, she's the modern day Beatles, the modern day Elvis. Speaker 1: She is. And what I loved is that we actually didn't watch the football. We're not a football family. And the first game my family did watch was the one with. So I think I don't know if Travis brought readers to Taylor because it's kind of a man thing. But but they got the wives and the daughters of the football players to watch a football game. Kevin King: Yeah, there's this running joke last year when they first got together that, look, Taylor Swift put Kelsey on the map. And most of these people had no idea that Kelsey's always already a Hall of Fame football player, that anybody that's a football fan knew exactly who he was and how good he was. It was just this, people were making memes out of it. You know, look, he's famous now because of her. Well, I think the 13-year-old girl doesn't know who he is. Speaker 1: Yeah, the 13-year-old girl just, yeah, they didn't really watch a whole lot of football. I don't know. Kevin King: Yeah, it's fascinating how you can tie all this stuff together now. So your background, though, I mean, you were a teacher, right? Speaker 1: I was a high school teacher for three years. Kevin King: And so that's where you get some of your ability now to teach and educate and 28,000 people going through your course and stuff and why it resonates. But where was the migration from teaching to social media? Walk us through how that actually happened. Speaker 1: Oh, that's a fun story. Okay. So I was a school teacher and I got pregnant and I was really excited. I got pregnant. I had a beautiful baby girl. And then I was on maternity leave and I got pregnant again. So that one I was a little less excited about because now I'm like holding a newborn and I'm pregnant. So obviously the school district did not want me to have two maternity leaves in one school year. So that was kind of the end of my teaching career. And also I had morning sickness while nursing a baby and having them. I couldn't, I couldn't deal. So I had to, I had to quit and I felt like I was fired, but I wasn't fired. I just, it just wasn't like, Thanks for watching. God was telling me that it was time for me to be doing something else with my life and I didn't listen and I had to have the good old kick in the butt. Anyway, so I come home and I have my baby and we had some problems feeding my daughter and because I was pregnant and I go to the doctor and they're like, she's allergic to soy, she's allergic to dairy, she's allergic to eggs, da, da, da, da, da. And of course I can't feed her anymore and That was the point when I started going online. And it's because I called my mom on the phone and my parents are entrepreneurs and my parents value independence, just like I value independence with my children. And I hope that my children know they can come to me whenever they're at the spot when they're an adult. And I called my mom and I was like, Mom, Formula is $400 a month to feed this kid. And I just lost my job. And we don't have $400 to buy formula. So I'm gonna need like some help. And my parents gladly said yes, like they were not at all. Like they were very quick to say yes. But I hung up the phone and I was like, Oh, no. And my hubby came home at that time too. And here I am alone, like with babies. I'm doing nothing but being with babies. And I wanted to be a school teacher and I love teaching. And he came home and he's like, I think you should start a website. I was like, Start a website? Yeah, sure. You should start a website. Well, what will I call it? He's like, well, what do you want to call it? I guess we can call it Quirky Mama. And so like literally I'm like almost in tears because I can't feed my kid and there's no money. And I had to beg my parents for money. And my husband's like, well, how do we say Quirky Mama? And so I typed out Quirky Mama and I misspelled it. Who spells mama? M-O-M-M-A. That's how I spelled it. I called it that because a kid in college told me I was quirky and I decided to, I think he meant it as an insult, but I was like, oh dang, that's me. Little did I know, I just needed a word for it. So that always stuck with me as like a badge of honor that I got called quirky. And so I was like, I'm a quirky mama now. Like that's who I am. And I started the website and in one year we grew like, I don't remember how, We grew to like a million followers like right away. Kevin King: Oh wow. Speaker 1: And then we had a book deal and the book ended up selling like three point something million dollars worth of our book, like $250 something thousand dollars. 50,000 copies of our book. Then we went on and built another website and the original one got to 10 million page views a month. Then I built another website and I got it to 4 million page views a month. I built another website, got it to 2 million something page views a month. Started an Amazon store and sold out of all my Amazon inventory the first day because I also sold something illegal to sell on Amazon, but I didn't know it and I didn't read my terms of service very well. Thankfully, Star Wars did not get me in trouble because they didn't realize it because I ran out of inventory. So, there was that. Norm Farrar: Do you want to show that? I know you've shown it on my podcast before. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Norm Farrar: Get this, Kev. Get this. Speaker 1: I bought, went to, okay, I watched a video from a guy called Rizzy or something. Kevin King: Uh-huh. Speaker 1: Anyways, he told me how you could do Amazon retail. And so I had this huge audience, right? And so I was like, I can do Amazon retail. So I went to Walmart, and they had these on sale. Kevin King: Okay. Speaker 1: And it's a toothbrush. I'm not going to push the button because it goes for two full minutes, but it could be dumped on. You battle with your mouth while you brush your teeth. And this one has actually been used by my child because he came in my room and it was like, Oh, that's fun. I'm like, that's my show and tell. But anyways, so I, I went to Walmart after I watched this YouTube video from Rizzi and I went to Walmart and, um, I saw that these were on sale for like $2 each. I'm like, oh my word, those are gonna go crazy. There's so many kids that want those. They're not $2. I can sell those for way more. I think we sold them for like seven bucks, a toothbrush, y'all, seven bucks. And I just got the entire stock that Walmart had, which was like 250 of them. And the guy at the cashier's like, you want all of these? I'm like, yeah, I want all of them. And he's like, I don't think we can do that. I'm like, I think you can do that. And next thing you know, I'm leaving with 250 toothbrushes. And I put them on Walmart that night on Amazon that night because it was really, really easy. And at the time I had gotten I'd applied for every category that Amazon had. So like this was back when it was more open or I don't remember what was going on. Anyways, I had the category, so I put it up there. And yeah, then I had videoed my kids brushing their teeth while they were fighting with the toothbrushes and me actually telling them to stop slinging toothpaste at the mirror and all of that whole discussion. I filmed that and put it up on my Facebook page and then the link to my Amazon product. And by the next morning, we were already sold out. So yeah, that was my first thing of selling on Amazon. Norm Farrar: Just happened to say Star Wars on it. Speaker 1: It was the actual Star Wars lightsaber toothbrush. And I'm pretty sure if it had lasted more than 40, 24 hours that I would have gotten a significant problem. But I didn't know. Kevin King: It's a retail arbitrage. Speaker 1: It was retail arbitrage, yeah. Kevin King: You're allowed to resell in the U.S. Speaker 1: Oh, okay, cool. Kevin King: I don't think you would have gotten in trouble. As long as it's not counterfeit, but you're allowed, yeah, you can sell in the U.S., resell a product. So I'm not modifying it or putting in some sort of set or something. Unknown Speaker: If you bundled it. Speaker 1: It wasn't even on Amazon though. Kevin King: Yeah, I don't think you could have gotten in any trouble for it. You should have gotten a letter. Norm Farrar: You got a letter, didn't you? Speaker 1: I think I got a letter for I got a letter for something else. I had a learning experience with Amazon. So this was my first product that I sold. My second product that I sold was these, these, and we made them go viral. I don't know if you guys remember rainbow looms. Kevin King: Yeah. Speaker 1: We made Rainbow Looms go insanely viral. We're talking 18 million views in a weekend. We sold out of all of my inventory, all my friends' inventory, all the inventory that I could find as I kept finding. At that point, I realized you changed the links. When this sold out, we just picked another random Amazon seller and we'd sell out their whole inventory. We'd pick another random Amazon seller and we'd sell out their inventory. We sold a ton of these rainbow loom bracelets. So that was that one. And then the other one. Kevin King: This is driving traffic from social media to sell that. Norm Farrar: Yep. Speaker 1: Traffic from social media. This is one of the things I did. We made necklaces that you put essential oils into. And so you open it up and there's like a little pad, a leather pad, and you stick oils on it and then they affect your necklace so you can smell all nice and pretty. We sold those too. And we sold leather bracelets and I can't find any of my leather bracelets. I don't know where they went. Norm Farrar: But that essential oil bracelet necklace, that came from experience, right? From school, from teaching in school. Speaker 1: Yeah, that one and I sold it to my audience of if you can't carry oils with you. And we had like five different versions. And then this one was the one that got brand hijacked where like I designed that. But when it started selling a lot, the brand, the supplier, I mean, I think it was the supplier. I don't have any proof, but the supplier got the same boxes and the same designs. I drew that like that was my drawing that made that. And but now somebody else is selling it. Kevin King: Was that your thing, was driving social to commerce or were you just doing social to blogs or social to wherever you could monetize it? Speaker 1: I was just having fun driving social to anywhere. I was just having a grand old time driving social traffic. Unknown Speaker: So we drove it to websites. Speaker 1: Facebook traffic was my favorite and Pinterest. So the way Facebook works, you can get Facebook to spike really quickly. And then Pinterest is like a slow burn. So I wanted traffic to spike quickly so then I could get a slow burn on Pinterest. So I would get lots of people to come visit it. And if you put a post out on Pinterest and you don't like, Prime the pump. That's what I called it when you like make sure that people see it in the first 24 hours. If you put it on Pinterest without priming it, it's just going to always be at this level. But if you prime the pump, now it's going to start at a higher rate and now it's going to stay at a higher rate. So you like raise the level of what's possible. So we would get a post to go viral on Facebook. In the comments, I would say, you'll need to keep this for later. I'd link to the pin and now the pin would get incoming traffic. So now the pin rises in its search rankings. So now 3, 6, 12 months from now when someone's searching for Rainbow Loom Bracelets. They go to my blog post, not directly to Amazon. We used to go directly to Amazon, but then we kept selling out and that was a big nightmare of a mess. They go to my blog post, which then links to the products and then would sell those. And at the same time, I was monetizing the blog post with like e-books and courses and ads in the sidebar and all different types of things. Norm Farrar: Now, a quick word from our sponsor, LaVanta. Hey, Kevin, tell us a little bit about it. Kevin King: That's right, Amazon sellers. Do you want to skyrocket your sales and boost your organic rankings? Meet Levanta, Norm and I's secret weapon for driving high-quality external traffic straight to our Amazon storefronts using affiliate marketing. That's right. It's achieved through direct partnerships with leading media outlets like CNN, Wirecutter, and BuzzFeed, just to name a few, as well as top affiliates, influencers, bloggers, and media buyers, all in Levanta's marketplace, which is home to over 5,000 different creators that you get to choose from. Norm Farrar: So are you ready to elevate your business? Visit get.levanta.io slash misfits. That's get.levanta.io slash misfits and book a call and you'll get up to 20% off Levanta's gold plan today. That's get.levanta.io slash misfits. One of the things that we always get from our listeners is it's great to hear. And it's great to hear that you did, you know, a million views, 5 million views, but how can we do that? Can you give some action steps or something that, you know, from Facebook or whatever your favorite platform is. I know you just described a flow going from Facebook over to Pinterest, but what can people do to get some results similar to what you're doing? Speaker 1: The first thing they need to do is they need to think of who their person is and they need to learn how to talk for their person. So a lot of times we like to think about the problems that our product solves and we like to tell people about the benefits of that product and the problems and the features. And people don't really care about that. They care about who am I and how does this product identify me. So I'm a mom who's got crazy rambunctious kids and they love Star Wars. So I'm just like everyone else. I'm going to have the identity that comes by having the Star Wars anthem with your toothbrush. That's an identity. I'm not solving the problem of you need a two minute timer for your kids. I'm not solving the problem of this is soft and it won't hurt the gums of your kids. No, nobody cares about that. They care how does this toothbrush fit my identity and how does this toothbrush fit my child's identity. So once you can make it anything an identity post, then you can grow. So my essential oil ones, we did it with I'm a crunchy mom. Yeah, but they don't actually buy as much essential oil jewelry because they're staying at home with their kids. So the or like the mom ones that didn't resonate as well. I'm a teacher, a crunchy teacher. We had a teaching audience as well, so a smaller segment. They tended to buy our essential oils because they were able to see a need for it, but also we had the identity of a crunchy teacher. Kevin King: Isn't it on Facebook too? A lot of social media, there's like a warm-up period. So when you post, it goes out to a few of your friends or related people or people that follow you and they see kind of how it does and it slowly works its way out and out and out and then goes out into the big wild. And that's what a lot of people don't understand and it gets frustrating. I can have a Facebook group that has 400 members in it that are people that paid to come to my conference. I post in that group. These are people that want to see my stuff and they're following that group. I post something there and it shows me 35 people saw this. It went through 35 feeds. It doesn't even mean they saw it. These are people that asked for it and it's still not showing it. Can you explain how that works and how you can juice that and how maybe shares and Are more valuable than comments and likes and, you know, that kind of stuff? Speaker 1: Yeah. So typically it depends on the size of your page. Smaller pages have a slightly larger percentage of their followers that are able to see a post. Larger pages, like once you cross over the million threshold, your actual percentage drops. So if you're getting close to a million followers, you're typically going to want to start a second page so you can capitalize on the high view, high percentage views and the breadth of a wide audience. But basically it goes out to say 1% of your audience sees a piece of content whenever you post it. If that 1% gives Facebook positive signals, then Facebook knows who this post is for and how to drive it to more people. So let's say it goes out to 1% and those people give you thumbs ups. That's a micro reaction. So a thumbs up is a micro reaction. A single word is a micro reaction. I'm a like a click on the content. It's like a micro reaction. These are little things that people can do that take action on your content and signal to Facebook that I like this. Then there's connecting signals. So not only do I like this, I want to not only am I engaging in this, not only I'm going to stop and look, I'm going to take an action and connect to this author. I'm going to connect this to a friend. So that's when we leave a comment that's more than one word. So like here, we're F for following. That doesn't count in Facebook's mind. That counts as a micro-reaction. But if you leave a three-liner, if you tag someone, if you engage back and forth with somebody who commented earlier, that automatically says, oh, this is connecting content. We're going to rise it in the algorithm. We're going to make sure this is seen by more people. And then there's the personal stuff like saving posts or sharing posts or sending it over messenger that also rises it and reach. Now you said that shares are better. Well, it depends. The algorithm is really different. So the algorithm always kind of goes through like a little bit of a roller coaster. And I can, like, if you've been doing it for a while, you can start to see, oh, it's this, this season right now, or it's that season right now, whenever there's a lot of ads. So like from, November to December, video views are going to go down in ranking for organic and they're going to go up in ranking for ads. So like at that point, likes and those engagements rise in organic. Time on page. Well, right now, time on page is bigger because there's less ads in the market. So there's always a little bit of a dance as to which one is better for you. I like to tell people that you want to have all of those types of engagements. You don't want to be someone who just gets thumbs ups because you're never going to get somebody to join your email list. All they're going to say is, ha, liked it, liked it, liked it. They're not somebody who's going to buy. They're not somebody who's going to take action. You also don't want somebody who's comment camping because they're probably promoting themselves and using your audience to do it. So like comment camping is not necessarily helpful for you either. You probably want some people to comment, but not everybody, right? So you want to have a mixture of all of those things. Photos tend to get more likes, videos get time on page, like questions get responses and comments, so you're probably gonna wanna post a photo, a video, conversation starter, photo, video, conversation starter, kind of to cycle your content to make sure you're getting all of the different types of engagements. That way you can weather an algorithm storm and still be growing. So if the algorithm's like, this week really loves shares, well, great. You've got photos, and they tend to get more shares. And memes, they get shares. If they really like comments, well, great. You've got questions and conversation starters. Now you're getting more engagement on your content. So now they're going to see your next post. Any time that you're giving Facebook the engagements it's looking for, then it will push it out to more people. Kevin King: What about the people that put, if you want my, here's how to do something. If you want this, say, I want it in the comments. And you see a lot of people, some people say the same, the same thing over and over actually can hurt you or tell them to say some other phrase like where you're from. So everybody's like, I'm from Canada. I'm from Austin. I'm from Florida. So everything is different, but it's three or four words. What's the, is there any magic to any of that kind of little gaming the system? Speaker 1: Again, it depends on what you're looking for. So one word ones act like a like. So here, here, here, yes, yes, yes. Those are like micro reactions. But if they're like, oh, I really want that. That sounds great. That's a good one. And that's going to go up in ranking. Now, what Facebook loves is a back and forth dialogue. So I might I don't do this every time because I want to make sure I'm getting all the different types of engagements. I might say I have this up for grabs. Who wants it? Whenever they comment, I'll pick the one that has the most words on it and I'll reply back and I'll tag the other people in that comment and say, here it is for you guys. Let me know if you didn't get it. Let me know if the links don't work because last time they were broken. And now those people that I tag see it and then they reply, oh yeah, it works fine for me. Or actually, no, your link is still broken, girl, which has happened. So now I have this back and forth dialogue, which now pushes it out to more people. Kevin King: What about the link in the post, actually in the body of the post? A lot of people say, don't do that. They don't want you going off the site. They say, wait five minutes or 10 minutes or something. Everybody's got a different rule and then put it in the comments. Speaker 1: I tend to, if I'm going to put it in the comments, unless I'm turning it into an ad. So Facebook wants people to stay on Facebook. So you have to kind of play by its rules a little bit. Yeah. Norm Farrar: I'm just thinking about what you just said about putting it in the comments. Does it harm you at all if you're putting that link in? I've been doing that with my posts, linking it over. And the reason I'm doing it is I'm trying to juice Google business profile. So that's my URL. That's my anchor URL. So they say that you should put it in your post. So now I'm just listening to you answer and going, crap, am I hurting myself? Speaker 1: Well, it doesn't hurt you to have like it linked. I usually wait to put the link into the comments until I have a little bit of engagement. So Facebook knows who to show that post to. And then I like to do a back and forth. If I'm going to put a link into the post, I'll put it like after it's been live, I might re-edit it and put it in and then I might turn add money on it. So it has organic on it and it has the link. So it's going out to more people. Norm Farrar: Here's another one, and that's region. So I'm in Canada and you got the states. TikTok, for example. I know this for a fact that we made a big mistake opening up a TikTok account in Canada trying to reach the US. You can do it. But what you need, the way that it works is that people in Canada are going to see it. If they have followers in the States, then they're going to see it. But it takes a hell of a lot of time before you can get to where you are in the States. Does that happen on Facebook or Instagram or any of these other platforms? Speaker 1: Yes, you do have a little bit of a bump in the place where the person's posting from. Now, if you have a VA that's from Philippines or from Cambodia and or Vietnam or wherever, and they're posting on your page, it also tends to push it into their space. So this is something to be aware of that just that wherever your admins are active, that's it tends to also see that as your country. Norm Farrar: So VPN, have them into how would you do it? Speaker 1: I mean, Facebook can tell you're on a VPN and they downgrade you for that. Just use the country you're living in as your home base. I know, Norm. I'm sorry. But here's the thing. Canada is also a pretty good market to grab an audience from. Norm Farrar: Yeah, but again, just going from our experience, if you're in the States, you can build it a lot quicker than in Canada. And especially I'm talking about TikTok. Speaker 1: So yeah, that's true actually with all of the platforms. You can grow faster in the States than you can from outside the States. If you're trying to grow in US audience, it's best to be in that country when you're posting. Kevin King: I just saw Marla Jack speak at the internet marketing party last night. I don't know if you know who she is or not. And she was breaking down how to actually do YouTube and grow. And one of the things that she said is that a lot of people make a mistake as they post the same type of stuff and you should actually bury it up. Like if you should actually show, here's me with my family, you know, if you're willing to do this, here's me with my family. And then you post something else as a provocative question, like, what do you think, you know, It could be political or it could be something else just to get that back and forth and then mix in, oh, by the way, I have this PDF of seven things that can, whatever, make your car go faster, whatever it is you're selling. And she's like, you need to mix it in and constantly surprise because you get in these habits of posting the same type of stuff over and over and over. The algorithm starts zoning you out and the audience starts zoning you out. Speaker 1: I would agree with that on some level, especially on Facebook. Like you need to have a different type of any of photos, videos, conversation starters. And some of those photos might be behind the scenes. Some of them might be memes. Some of them might be like a selfie style or you're like your family or connecting piece. Like it's good to have a variety of content. But think about the channels that you follow the most on YouTube. Like I'm thinking of two of the channels I follow the most. Pat Finnerty. Why this song sucks. Like every single video is why this song sucks. He's hilarious by the way. I love him to pieces. You guys should all listen to him and watch how he styles his videos. He's awesome. But his videos all have the same theme. Like you can watch one and it's a different song and it's... One's about this songwriter and that songwriter. And some of them even have the same thing. They use the same chord projection as the last two videos we talked about. Anyways, he basically, but he's fun. And we like him because he has a system. Another person I like to follow is Peter Zion, who he's a global economist. And every single time he's like, here's the demographics of this country and the demographics of this country. Like the economic results of the GDP of China versus this country. I love that stuff. And so I follow each of them for the specific thing that they're giving to me. Right. And I think, yes, we should have a variety of content, but at the same time, we should be known for something specific. So people have a reason to follow us. One of my friends, he is in London and he's a rugby fanatic. And he is also an ad or like a thought leader on the internet. He is an amazing human and he was like, great reach, great reach, great reach, great reach. Well, now it's rugby season or whenever it was that we talked. It was rugby season. And all of a sudden, his reach on his profile plummeted. And he's like, Rachel, can you just check what's going on? And I look at his page. I'm like, well, you usually talk about ads and you talk about Facebook and you talk about AI news. And now all of a sudden you're talking about rugby and your last three posts have been about rugby. And then you got your family in there, too. But you went four posts without talking about ads. And frankly, we're following you because you're a Facebook and a meta ads. I'm a marketing AI expert. We're not following you for rugby. And so we're really confused what we're seeing here. So people are unfollowing you. They're not unfriending you. They're not da-da-da because they don't want you to know, but they're just quietly like, why do I care about this? Like hide? Who's this? I don't know who that is. It's not a sport. I know what that is. And next thing you know, now you have no reach and I'm sorry, you're not going to get that back. Like those people unfollowed you, you gave a lot of negative signals to Facebook and you had a really large audience. And if you have more than 50 people unfollow or hide in a short period of time, well, that's a huge signal to Facebook that you're now starting back down here. And so it's going to take you about three weeks to get back out of that hole. And you're going to get back out of the hole. By talking about the thing your people come to you for. So yes, change up the type of content, but stay in the lane that you pick because they expect something from you. If you guys were talking about cats, we would be like, wait, The Marketing Misfits, how does cats fit with marketing? Oh no, Kevin just now is adopting seven cats. Like that's awesome, I guess. Kevin King: One more cigar talk. We're confusing the algorithm. Speaker 1: Well, I mean, it's okay. If you're known for cigars and marketing, that makes sense. But if all of a sudden- It's in our logo. Kevin King: It's in our logo. Look at the, I read the logo. Speaker 1: But if you all of a sudden adopt seven cats and you tell everybody how now you're the greatest cat cat- Who smokes cigars. Maybe the cats do want some cigars. Norm Farrar: Yeah, who knows? Kevin King: Hey, Kevin King and Norm Farrar here. If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits, thanks for listening this far. Continue listening. We've got some more valuable stuff coming up. Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify, make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of The Marketing Misfits. Have you subscribed yet, Norm? Norm Farrar: Well, this is an old guy alert. Should I subscribe to my own podcast? Kevin King: Yeah, but what if you forget to show up one time and it's just me on here? You're not going to know what I say. Norm Farrar: I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair too. We'll just, you can go back and forth with one another. Unknown Speaker: Yikes! Norm Farrar: But that being said, don't forget to subscribe, share it. Oh, and if you really like this content, somewhere up there, there's a banner. Click on it and you'll go to another episode of The Marketing Misfits. Kevin King: Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm. Norm Farrar: So, uh, we are getting close to the end, but I got a question. This is so basic, but I have a profile. Most people see Norm Farrar or Kevin King. They go to the profile and they have a friend request, but on my profile, I don't want to put all this stuff that I want family trips, Kevin and me smoking a cigar, whatever it is. And then. That gets mixed up with my profile page. So the business page of Norm or Lunch with Norm or Marketing Misfits. And then you have a group. Is there some sort of progression or something that I should do to help with that? Or what should I do? Like specifically on the profile page? Speaker 1: Yeah. So on the profile, I think you should still have marketing, but you're also going to put some of the stuff that you're interested in. So I would probably do, Half personal, half business on there. And I would never promote on your, so you wouldn't say, here's my lead magnet for you. You would never say, I've got this for sale for you. I mean, once in a blue moon you can, but you just limit that on your personal profile and you add more like flavor of your life on it. Cause they're coming from the page or they're coming from the group thinking, who is this Norm guy? I want to know who he is. So they give them something to look at. On your page, you're going to want to have more of your ad content, but they don't want just your ad content. So make sure like one fourth is ad content. One fourth is helpful and two bits are letting them talk. In a group, they're coming to connect not with you as much as you want them to. They're coming to connect with each other. So give them opportunities to talk to each other. That's the primary difference. But again, I balance it and I still have a variety of content that goes in each. Norm Farrar: You're so bang on. I just take a look. I started this WhatsApp group for the podcast. This thing is just driving itself. I don't even have to be part of it. Everybody's talking to one another. It's so great. I'm learning a ton just from everybody who's a member. I know even with Kevin's group, he's got the BDSS group. People are just holding their own, put it that way. Speaker 1: I love that. Norm Farrar: Yeah. It's great. Speaker 1: Yeah. Groups. Once you have a group running and it's like, it can become a self-sustained thing. That's like what Kevin talks about. He talks about you make these experiences for people. And the purpose of an experience is one to have like a moment where they can like stake a claim in their life and be like, I was there. I had this core memory. I went to this event and they had circus delay people. Unknown Speaker: I remember that one. 40 years later, I'm like, that's you have like these these pivotal like moments, but also these pivotal connections, because the people that are there at those events, they have this shared experience that other people don't can't relate to. So just like he crafts those experiences in real life, you just craft them in a virtual space. Norm Farrar: Okay. Kevin, any other questions? Kevin King: I can sit here and talk for another three hours with Rachel. I know. All kinds of stuff. I was just getting warmed up. Damn. Looking at the time, this is too much fun. Norm Farrar: I do want to do one thing, though. You never even touched on it. You've got this incredible app that's out there. You want to touch on it and what it can do? Speaker 1: We can build someone's product, digital product, the page that they promote that product on, and any social post to share and tell people about that product. And we build it for them with AI. So it's AI enabled, but you The human create it and it can be created in minutes because AI is the power behind you. And you come up with the idea, like I have yoga mats and I want to create a checklist to go along with my yoga mats about what people, what gear people need. So they go to my store and buy more of my yoga gear. You can create that handout, put it on the landing page, link to your products, and it takes minutes. Norm Farrar: And it creates a landing page too. Both Kevin and I had a chance to take a look at it and this app is truly amazing. What would take you a lot of time to do is literally type in a few words and hit a button and it's there for you. Speaker 1: I've had so much fun building it and also using it for my own businesses. Norm Farrar: Right. Yeah. And what's the name of it? Speaker 1: Pagewheel. Norm Farrar: And how do they get a hold of this? Speaker 1: Pagewheel.com. Norm Farrar: Very good. Okay. I think that's it. Speaker 1: Thank you. Norm Farrar: Are you exhausted yet? Speaker 1: Oh no, I was just getting started. I could have done this for three more hours, just like Kevin. Norm Farrar: A three part series. There we go. Unknown Speaker: Let's go. Kevin King: Let's go until midnight. We're good. Norm Farrar: There we go. Yeah, sure. Kevin King: I'll clear my schedule. For Rachel. Unknown Speaker: I did have leftovers on the schedule for today, so my kids already ate their dinner. Norm Farrar: Now, he said he'd clear his schedule. Now, he won't do that for me, but for Rachel, he'll clear his schedule. Kevin King: I have stories to hear from her. I've heard all your stories, Norm. Norm Farrar: Oh, gosh. Kevin King: No, I actually haven't. In fairness to Norm, I don't know how many nights, if you add them up over the years, 150 nights of sitting out smoking cigar at the end of a day and telling stories and just talking business and life and whatever. It never fails that there's always something new that comes up. Sometimes we have to preface each other like, stop me if I told you this before. Did I tell you about the time? Because we're getting old. We can't remember who we told what to. Did I tell you about the time I did blah, blah, blah? He's like, yeah, I've heard that one. What about this one? Let me tell you this one. It's like constant. I love that. We should be recording these and turning these into a book. We should be putting an applaud on that, Norm, and turning these into a book or something. Norm Farrar: You've told me that. This is just something, especially, Rachel, I know how many children you have, and this would just benefit them so much, but Kevin's told me We've talked countless times, why are you not putting these stories into a book so your kids can enjoy them, you know, later on? And it's, it's so true. We've, we've, I don't know, we've sat in Alaska with three blankets over us watching icebergs go by, smoking cigars and these stories come up. Speaker 1: You're freezing your patooties off. Kevin King: Boy, you're all freezing one hand and trying to get the cigar in another. Speaker 1: Yeah. Norm Farrar: And the ship had kind of a non-smoking policy except for the very back where all the wind was. Oh my gosh. But that's another podcast. Rachel, it's been absolutely fantastic having you on the podcast today. Thank you. And I know that we're going to have you back on. You're just full of knowledge. Speaker 1: I would have a blast coming back. You guys are two of my favorite people. Norm Farrar: Now, now that you've returned my email. Speaker 1: Okay, for the record, I still don't actually fully have my email list back. I'm only able to email 12,000 people. So you have to like warm your list. Kevin King: You're going to make it into the 12,000, Norm. You're going to make it into the 12,000. Where am I? Speaker 1: 12,001? Such a nightmare, y'all. It was such a nightmare. I did not know how to protect myself. So I became a big girl. Norm Farrar: But you know, I just, let's talk about that for a second because you really got into this at DealCon, but this was because you put out a video. Somebody didn't agree. They put it into their group and it's not even what you meant. They misinterpreted what you said. Speaker 1: Well, it wasn't me that said it. Somebody else had said that they had used my tool to make a video, but my tool doesn't make videos. But they were just excited that they got their product out on the market. And there's a group that's anti-AI. And so the anti-AI people found out about it and they just kind of had fun. They had fun. They didn't kill me. I'm still alive. I'm going to be back stronger. I'm awesome. Norm Farrar: Yeah. It didn't faze you. You just got back up. I would have been in the fetal position, but, uh, just wanted to mention that before we signed off, but, uh, yeah, respect you for that. All right. Well, Rachel, we're going to remove you and, uh, we'll see you in just a second. Here we go. There, removed. I've got all the control. I've got the power, Kevin. Kevin King: Why do you always kick off our guests, Norm? You're always like kicking on to the curb. Norm Farrar: Because I see in the private chat, kick off. Right in the private chat, it says, Norm, kick off Rachel now. So I did. Kevin King: Now, Rachel's always a blast to talk to. She's always full of energy and full of ideas and full of proven tactics and techniques. She's just a blast. I could have kept that going for quite some time. Norm Farrar: Oh yeah. And you know, just being around people like that, you know, you just get, you can just feel the energy and you get energized as well. So that's always great. Kevin King: I'm ready to hang out on the park by now. I'm ready to like, you know, go, if I was a dog, I'd be killing a toy. I'd be go grabbing a toy and going... Killing that toy. Norm Farrar: Yeah. Kevin King: I'm all jacked up now after talking to Rachel. Norm Farrar: All right, so what I want you to do, Kev, is put a GoCam on your head while you're running around the blog. Okay, I want to see pictures. Kevin King: We'll walk in airplanes and helicopters. Norm Farrar: Yeah, yeah. Unknown Speaker: All right. Norm Farrar: All right, sir. So I think that is it. Is there anything else that you can think of? Kevin King: And now I can think of that if you like this episode, you should be checking out the other episodes. I think, you know, we've put out 20 something of these marketing misfits and new one comes out every single Tuesday. So if you're not subscribing to this channel, if you're watching this on YouTube, or maybe you're checking this out on Apple or Spotify, make sure you hit that subscribe button. And you know what that just we're just talking about the algorithm, you know, that helps us as reviews. If you write a little review, give us a few stars or tell us what you think about the podcast. That actually will help the algorithm and helps us. And if you share it, you know, if you know somebody like, hey, you should check this out, you know, someone that maybe trying to do some social media ads that you should check this out with Rachel. Listen to her or whatever it may be. Feel free to do that and you know if you if you want to know more about what we do or Check out everything we have a we have a little website called marketing misfits dot Say it go ahead not calm. What is it doc? I can never remember this because it's almost calm. Norm Farrar: It's dot-co. Kevin King: That's right, marketingmisfits.co. If you want to check out more about us or learn about Norm and I, by the time this comes out, who knows, we might be smoking cigars with a big smoke right now as you're listening to this in Vegas, but share it, like it, check us out, and looking forward to spending some time with you again next week. Norm Farrar: By the way, I think this will come out in a week. Kevin King: I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about the audience. Norm Farrar: Oh, okay. Yeah, I know. Kevin King: Not with you. Norm Farrar: Of course. But if you are, if this comes out, I believe it will, prior to the big smoke in Las Vegas at the end of October, come on over. Check us out. Say hi. Kevin King: First week in November. First and second November. Norm Farrar: Yeah, I know Rachel will be there for sure. She's going to smoke a few cigars with us. Kevin King: She's going to be there. We'll get some good ones for her. Norm Farrar: All right, everybody. We'll catch you next week. Kevin King: Take care. Ciao. Norm Farrar: See ya. Kevin King: Sayonara.