The Story of Tom Holland's BERO

The Story of Tom Holland's BERO Speaker 1: Someone like Tom is probably also maybe busy filming a movie or whatever it may be. How do you kind of manage that balance of I'm building this and then person that you're building it with also is doing maybe 20 others or not. So I'm curious on how you mentally manage that. Speaker 2: So to this stage Tom is filming two of the biggest movies that will come out next year. Right now he's somewhere in the Mediterranean and like he'll text me from you know the stern of a Greek vessel and And, you know, he'll have an idea or I'll shoot him an image of like a new packaging render. So we stay in touch, but we align on the really important things, knowing that we weren't always going to have the same level of access. Speaker 3: When it comes to working with a celebrity influencer like that, what's the working relationship when you go into that? How does that whole relationship go? Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Chew on This. Today we have the CEO and co-founder of BERO, which is a product we've been actually having in our office for some time. But more importantly, I think our relationship with John is something that we want to be able to capitalize on because he's somebody that's helped Obvi not only be able to find its path and its growth journey, being a formal advisor for us, but also Being able to see John and the legacy brands he's worked with from C4 to now working with BERO and building BERO, it's been incredible to see you both in the space of capitalizing on beverage, which has been incredible, but also just to be able to have you helping us and now for once being able to shine and help the audience that watches our podcast. John, thanks a lot for flying up here, taking time to be on our podcast. For the few people who don't know about you, what's that little bit of intro or background you can give? Speaker 2: First, thanks for having me. It's been fun to be involved in the Avi brand and fun to be here to talk about BERO. My quick background, I had been a few different careers over the years. Started out, it was apparel. Spent about over a decade being a merchant for a few different fashion brands. Then, not for a want of passion, more for need. My wife was living in a different city and it made sense that I should probably live with her full-time. Ended up making a move into sports nutrition and heading up sports nutrition for GMC. Did that for about four and a half years and that opened up a door Really into me joining the Nutribullet team and helping them scale from just under 200 million to an eventual investment event with Kerg Dr. Pepper and expanding into the energy drink space and ultimately achieving number four. I think as I reflect, what was a kind of a random hopscotch of a career was ultimately what is happening trend-wise in health and wellness, what people put in their body is very much similar to the trends that you had to read when you were in apparel, what people put on their bodies. People were really thinking about what it said about them, what it reflected about them. And how they would be perceived both, you know, in their feelings and how other people would see them. So it's been a fun ride. Speaker 1: It's amazing. I'd love to, you know, double down a little bit into your journey into BERO and how that happened. Because I know you also had a little bit of time to think about what you wanted to do next, right? Which I think is really cool because when we have a lot of founders that we talk to or a lot of people watch our podcast too, a lot of people, when they're thinking about their journey of exit and what to do next, Some people just get stuck and be like, I don't know if I know what I want to do next or if I do get the hopeful exit that I want, I don't know if I want to jump back in or get back into the driver's seat or wherever it may be. Give us a little bit of what that was like because you had the option of probably maybe retiring on a beach or maybe taking extended amount of time off, but you also were like, hey, I want to get back into building a beverage brand and that too in an incredible space being You know, the NA space. And so give us a little bit of color what that journey looked like. Speaker 2: I honestly, the eight years that I was with Nutribull, I was their president. I, you know, I loved so much of it. You know, the amount of innovation we were able to do, the relationships that we built every single year was a new challenge. I learned something. But, you know, all that growth wasn't necessarily Just easy. It was a lot of time on the road. It was a grind. I know hustle culture is what everybody likes to preach, but I think shortly after the Curry Dr Pepper investment, I knew there was a really bright future for Nutribull. I just wasn't excited about my role for that next stage. I think now I reflect and the further I get in my career, I now feel that I want to be part of smaller things because Even though you have this massive business ahead of you, you wear the weight of the employees. So when you have a bad year, you take personal responsibility for what will happen if the business doesn't shake out. And on top of that, at the time, I had a four-year-old little girl. I had that wife that I moved back across the country for. I left the meeting and I called my wife and said, I think I want to quit. And first, it wasn't about what I wanted to do next. It was literally reset, take some time off, took my daughter to soccer camp. Then I realized I probably would have lost my mind if I stayed home. And I was talking about a couple opportunities, a hundred-ish million in revenue, figured, okay, founder got to a point, can't operationalize the next stage, plug me in, I can take it from there. And none of them really excited me or really inspired me for the next phase. And it wasn't until I was speaking with Danny Stepper, who, you know, well-known name in the beverage space, And he was telling me, well, you're an entrepreneur. You do startup. And I'm like, no, Danny, I've never done startup. I'm not. And he goes, no, that's what you did with C4 with the energy drink. You should take a shot. By happenstance, I ended up making a connection with an amazing VC, Imaginary Ventures, incredible consumer fund. They introduced me to Tom Holland and I found myself debating if I really wanted to do a startup. And yeah, I was laying in bed tossing and turning one night and my wife turned over and she said, what's on your mind? And we had been together for 23 years at that point. And she said, you know, let's talk about it. We talked for six hours straight. And at the end, she said, you have to do this. It's a once-in-a-lifetime thing. Speaker 1: Wow. That's amazing. Powerful. Very powerful. Speaker 4: So, I mean, kicking off, right? I mean, we're trying all the flavors here today, but I'm curious what the history was behind kind of getting the flavors into the place that they are today, a little bit of the packaging. Walk us through what it actually takes to get a finished product like this ready for market. Speaker 2: So building a beverage brand is daunting but it felt familiar regardless of the category that you're playing in. You really have to come up with like how can you be distinct and differentiated from anyone else you're up against. In a fast-growing category like non-alcoholic beer, I think it's that much more important that you are distinct different with a high-quality product because the first preposition anyone will have is Oh God, this is gonna be O'Doul's because it's still so early and while brands like Athletic are doing a great job reconsidering what people think of flavor, you can't do them with an inferior product. So the first hire I made was a brewmaster. He had 40 years brewing experience, worked with Boston Beer, started up his own brewery in North Texas, sold that to Molson Coors and he was retired and I got introduced to him and Yeah, I was talking to him about on a consultancy to help with recipes. I like beer, I drink beer, don't know the first thing about making beer. Tom, similarly, likes beer, didn't know how to make beer. And about 10 minutes into the conversation, Grant, our brewmaster, said, well, I don't need to be retired. Like, you could pull me out of retirement for this. And I think from there, You know, one, he was a great human being, but two, he really understood the history of beer, the legacy of beer. And our goal wasn't to create a great non-alcoholic beer. We wanted to create beer. And we wanted it to taste like beer because it is beer. It's the same four ingredients. So first things first, we needed beer. Great product that met the expectations of their category. Next, we didn't want to create a craft beer from 2024 that had aliens and neon lights and funny names. We wanted something that felt like it always existed, that could tap into this multi-thousand year legacy category. And then third and not least at all, we wanted it to really feel one, premium, but then two, Tom Holland, my co-founder and partner, He wasn't doing this in such a way that it was going to be a sponsored by type relationship. This had to really strike a chord to his history. He's British. He has a deep story. We wanted to put Easter eggs in there too. Those were the boxes we were really trying to chuck along the way and thus far I think the feedback we're getting is we've done a pretty good job, got a lot of work to do, but getting there. Speaker 3: When it comes to working with a celebrity influencer like that, What's the working relationship when you go into that? You're both coming up with ideas and you're running it by each other. Are you coming up with ideas and then running it by him? How does that whole relationship go? Speaker 2: I think early on, the first conversation I had, it was just mutual respect and trust. It wasn't, you know, I'm in my 40s. I'm outside of the key demographic, although I will see every Spider-Man that comes out. So it wasn't this moment of like being starstruck. It was, you know, two guys talking about what they could potentially build together. And it was just like a real relationship on day one. So now, you know, he, you know, he respects my experience and my expertise. He has an incredible vision for what the opportunity of the category is. He knows his brand. He knows really how this can come across authentically. So there's just like a trust. And sometimes he'll throw out an idea, he'll love it. Sometimes he'll throw out an idea, I'll love it. Other times we disagree, but it kind of flows really naturally. Speaker 1: Chew on This is sponsored by. If you want to build a profitable e-com brand these days, then you need retention. Lifetime value is the lifeblood of your brand, especially when tax keep going up. Being first purchase profitable is great, but you only really start to print money when that customer comes back over and over and over again. It's why subscriptions are such a big piece of our strategy here at Opti. There's a big reason brands, no matter the size, are using a tool like Recharge. What we like is that they're not just adding a subscribe button on your site, they're a complete subscription engine, helping you convert buyers to subscribers, preventing cancellations, winning back churn customers, and they're even driving more revenue through smart upsells. That's why big brands such as Dr. Squatch and even Vital Proteins are using Recharge. So if you're looking for a powerful, all-in-one subscription platform, head over to Get Recharged today to see how you can pump up your LTV for your brand. Now let's get back to the episode. I feel like we've seen a good spectrum between celebrity backed brands versus celebrity led brands and then just brands that you know a celebrity kind of says hey I'm back I'm kind of the face of this or whatever it may be. And then you look at like the ones that have done really well and then you see the ones that have maybe kind of crumbled because they didn't have the right operational backing. When it comes down to like the operational workflow and even just how you guys think about who's going to do what, for the brands out there that are hoping to one day work with an influencer or celebrity or bring one on or be a co-founder with one, What are some of those key tips that you would have, some of those tactical takeaways of like, here's how to approach it. I love the fact that you mentioned like there needs to be a respect of who's good at what. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: But then there's also an element of like, you know, you're heading up the, you're steering the ship, you're the CEO, you're leading it. But then there's also like, hey, well, you know, someone like Tom is probably also maybe Busy filming a movie or whatever it may be. How do you kind of manage that balance of I'm building this and then the person that you're building it with Also is doing maybe 20 other things or not. So I'm curious on how you mentally manage that. Speaker 2: Fast forward five years and if this works, how we hope it does and how we think it will, you know, the reason why that will happen is because we have, the team is amazing. Like we have an operational team of just like superstars and yeah, I think first and foremost, celebrity is wonderful. It's a great top spin for a brand, for awareness and press. Um, but like, Beverage is very easy to go the wrong way. It's expensive to ship. It's hard to build. Quality is of the utmost importance. Your route to market requires DSD. We're six months into this. We already have 120 partners. It's cumbersome. First, it was setting up a real business over just a celebrity-backed brand. Next was making sure that we had the important conversations while we were both in a room so that when we weren't in the room together, we were operating to the same playbook. So to this stage, Tom is filming two of the biggest movies that will come out next year. Right now, he's somewhere in the Mediterranean. And, like, he'll text me from, you know, the stern of a Greek vessel. And, you know, he'll have an idea or I'll shoot him an image of, like, a new packaging render. So we stay in touch, but we align on the really important things, knowing that we weren't always going to have the same level of access. Unknown Speaker: Very, very cool. Speaker 1: That's super important. Speaker 4: So the journey initially started kind of in the retail space over DTC, right? Naturally, when it comes to beverage, DTC is tough, right? Weight, shipping, things like that. Retail just seems like a more natural play. For brands that are just starting, it's relatively difficult to go straight onto shelves, but you guys kind of did that. Obviously, with your background and your connections and Tom being who he is, it kind of opens those doors a little bit easier, right? What is that conversation that you have with retailers? Is it like, well, I am who I am. Tom is who he is. You guys should take this product and put it on the shelves? What does that journey look like? Speaker 2: You know, going back to that late night conversation with my wife, I'd put together my five-year plan. We've been executing that, but kind of identified early on who the right partners were. And then I think we surprised them the first time. We had a meeting where we ended up getting a meeting with the buyer and the director at Target, and it was going to be me, my VC partner, and them. And you know, last minute addition, having Tom come on, you know, he's charming. The authenticity of the story came across. I think it made us feel differentiated than just another brand coming to say like, hey, look, this is a beer and here's your celebrity. Like Tom told the story and they knew right away he was behind it. So that definitely made a big difference in opening the door. Then we ended up getting a few introductions to other key retailers and there were many things that had to work together. And our story really came down to a few things. Okay, do you believe in the category of growth and the consumer? If you do, that makes everything else a lot easier. And like the trend is there, you know, consumer behavior, alcoholic consumption, the growth of NA, the decline or a flatline of full strength. Like all of that was a good grounding. Okay, the next stage was, okay, we have this brand, we think we're distinct, differentiated, we want to be a premium in a world that we're not seeing this being addressed. Heads nod. Next. Beverage is really hard to grow. Business is hard to do. We're really well funded because I have a tremendous partner in the VC. Okay, next box checked. Operational capabilities, we're going to be easy to do business with. We've done this before. We know how to get you product. We know how to manage quality so that your consumers will be taken care of. And last but not least, we have this tremendous human being who has this authentic story and reason for it to exist. And as we kind of went through that story, it was easy for them to understand the narrative of why this would work. And a few customers, Target as an example, I've always dreamed of being able to build those relationships where you launch a brand, you have this end cap, and you have their full support. And I was never able to do it in my past. And this time, seeing that roll out in early January was phenomenal. Speaker 4: Do those conversations ever get like, well, we'll accept this if Tom is the face of it or is it like, you know, okay, well Tom has a vision for the brand. He wants to carry it out the way he wants to but may not necessarily want to be plastered everywhere, right? Do those conversations come up at all? I'm very curious because I'm sure with like some of these other creative back brands or celebrity back brands, it's like, well, they're gonna be talking about it on their YouTube channel and their Instagram story like every other day and it'll push traffic to Walmart, Target, whatever it is. Is there like. Speaker 2: Every relationship is a little bit different. So there are relationships where the first time you're on the call, it could just be me and they'll say, look, love the brand, can't wait to carry you. You'll also have calls where as soon as you're on, they say, well, you know, if we do this event, Tom has to show up or else we won't carry you. It's like, okay, this feels transactional, let's just not. And then there are the deeper relationships where you can truly tell like, Press, events, in-store, all marketing is leaning in together. And like, yeah, it ends up being a little bit of a, there are contractual obligations on both sides for execution. But it's grounded in like kind of a shared value exchange as opposed to being one-sided. But it's not a one-size-fits-all. Speaker 4: Yeah, love that. Speaker 1: I'm really curious. So fast forward now to launch week. I think you were here at our office, which is really cool. But fast forward to launch week and I remember the first comment you had made was like, you're kind of just looking at your Instagram page and it was growing right out of the gate. And I think you had maybe even made a post and you're starting to accumulate your views and stuff. Walk me through kind of that feeling of that launch week and what were kind of the next things after you kind of do all these things to get to launch and then you realize like okay now business starts? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: So walk me through that switch right where it's like all right well you did so much to lead up to that point and now you know even once someone like Tom posts and you get a lot of your marketing now you know in gear, what was kind of the point after that? Speaker 2: So leading up to launch week I think it was it was going to be the Wednesday so it's like when it was gonna be Wednesday October the 9th because that was gonna be the teaser the unveil was gonna be two days later on my birthday I remember I inspired my team and I said if we miss my birthday you've all failed me and then the hurricanes were coming up through North Carolina and really there's a balance right like We have real people's lives in danger, and you have a non-alcoholic beer brand that we're passionate about, but you really can't weigh them the same way. So we decided to hold it. And we knew we were making the right decision, but on the same note, it was a little deflating. You were building to this moment. And we're watching, like, how bad is the damage? How are people handling? And we get into Sunday, and I remember I was shopping in a Target with my daughter. I texted Tom. I'm like, I think we might be able to go live with this thing tonight. He goes, all right, mate, let's do it. Picked up my daughter, went to checkout, ran home. You know, at the same time, we needed to make sure that our Instagram was ready to be up, our pre-order landing pages were up and running. It's funny how you expected to launch five days earlier, but your landing pages don't work. So, team's in a fire drill to make it happen, and Tom and I are on FaceTime, and he's like, dude, I'm shaking. I'm so nervous. I was like, you think you did it right. Brand building for all these years. But we did research, we got feedback, and it's nervous. You put your baby out into the world. And then all of a sudden you start getting, you know, likes, comments, and it was surreal. So then fast forward a few days, we actually launch, we're starting to transact, and we had a full press and launch week. And I call it the week of pinch me moments we had. Launch parties at some of the hottest restaurants and bars in New York. Tom and Tern, the team, we were on Jimmy Fallon, Seth Meyers, Good Morning America. We were on the Times Square billboard thanks to Shopify icons team. And like the whole week was just, oh my God, like it's out there. People see it and it seems to be positive. That week wrapped. The adrenaline was completely shot because I'm an extrovert, but I had networked nonstop for five days straight. And then that Saturday I had the holy shit moment of like, oh God, now we're a business. We need KPIs. What are we going to do? What's our revenue? How are we going to manage cash? But yeah, no, it was immediately you went from this like, Okay, I hope people like it to like okay now we're business. Speaker 3: Did you mentally like let's say they didn't like it like what if this shit sucks? Speaker 2: Did you were you mentally prepared for that at all or I think I will say I was but you know I think yeah, you know one of my learnings from mutual and in general is like I try to I'm generally pretty optimistic and everything I do like I always try to find the silver lining like I always downplay the negative, and I really wanted to come into this being not a pessimist because I think as the CEO, co-founder, you need to believe more than anyone else. But at the same point, I needed to be able to look at things and say, this is wrong. We need to do this better. And optimism would blind me from potential weakness. In my head, I was prepared for people not to like it because then I wanted to react and adjust. But it wouldn't have been easier. Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I just think about it because like, you know, when we launched Avi, we were backed with $5,000 and it didn't really make a difference if this was a success or not. Maybe we won't be able to pay our rent, but that's the biggest damage that that could happen. But you're backed by a VC and you've put all this effort in, you know, you got the PR going, you got, you know, just the whole rollout strategy and for that to not hit, it did hit, by the way, but if that didn't hit, I feel like, I mean, we've never been in that position, but I feel like that is one of those pivotal moments. Speaker 2: It was, yeah. And I had the opportunity to meet a lot of amazing, like, experienced people at my time at Nutribull, and I called up every single one of them, like, should I do this? What should I be thinking about? And, you know, I got a range from you absolutely need to do this to you're out of your effing mind. Why do you not love your family? Why do you want to be around them? But then something consistent was like, you know, when you launch this in a small region, because that's what you do in beverage, you launch regionally. And I thought, like, This is like a once opportunity. We think we have the right pieces. We think the liquid is right. Okay, we're going to launch. We're going into this cultural moment when the category is getting more crowded, which is dry January. It felt like a push the chips to the center of the table moment. Speaker 3: Yeah, that's sick. Speaker 4: Some of the activations you mentioned, right, so like going on these talk shows, you know, the billboards and, you know, the PR kind of side of things. Walk us through, like, what is the strategy for that? Like, how do you plan for an unveiling that massive so that it gets out to the masses? What really goes into that? Speaker 2: So going back to the team, a lot of our like integrated marketing was led by, she's our head of marketing. Her name is Jackie Widman. Like she's just insane. The amount she can take on, like the ability for her to just integrate marketing. So like not anything is dropped is insane. But then Tom has an incredible team around him too. So great publicist team that is unbelievably connected, Endeavor, and then even our partnership with Imaginary. There were so many great people in the room that made like, you know, at C4, everything felt very blue-collar. It's like, you get a spot, you get a slot, you prove it, you get the next one. And it was very grind, grind, grind. I think, not to say this isn't blue-collar because it's beverage and you still have to do that, but like, you do get the occasional jump ball, which was completely new to me. Wait, you mean if he does a post, you might be able to get a billboard? That's interesting. Okay. So like these doors opened up, but like, honestly, the integration and the collaboration between the team has been phenomenal. And I think the one thing that in anything I will pat myself on the back for one thing, like the culture of the team, I wanted to make sure we had a bunch of people that would just like be driven towards winning, not winning for themselves, but winning together. And I'll say that like the team was just We're running to the same beat and we were all focused on just delivering the best experience and best launch we could. So the culture, I think, really drove it too. Speaker 4: Love that. Speaker 1: Really curious on some of the tactics. So we talked about launch week and the oh shit moment of now we've got to build a business. To now six months of that journey, right, to those building in beverage or thinking about building in beverage, which is actually a good amount of our audience, what are some of those key pieces that you've got to focus on fundamentally, right? I feel like some people don't understand their economics, but then some people don't understand how much you have to invest in partnerships. Then you have brokers, you have distribution centers, you have, if you're trying to go into liquor stores, I know it's managed in very different ways. How much work has to go into that and what are some of those key fundamentals? Speaker 2: Well, I think even though you're launching, you know, this upcoming week or month for the future year, like having a long-term view on the business, you know, the five-year plan that we rolled out Really in January of 2024, so almost like a full year before we launched, it's still pretty much intact. Like there were placeholders. We didn't know what we didn't know, but you know, what is the COGS improvement that we can get for gross profit? What are the cost center synergies that we can get? When can we turn this thing to be in break even? So yes, it's going to be very resource intensive on headcount up front, but over time we'll be able to, you know, really make that work. And then like, you know, what are the key narratives of where you want this to grow? You know, how do you tell the story as a startup of top line, hockey stick growth, healthy gross profit, and eventually in EBITDA that turns positive? And what are the building blocks of what you want to get? Because I think ultimately, there's a lot of ways to build a beverage brand. And it's not saying be rigid, because I think we're learning every single moment, but where do you want your volume to come from? What's the quality of the volume? We're building a beer brand, so we wanted to build it in the on-premise. So we're really focused on 55% of total beer is drink in bars, restaurants, and hospitality. That's where I want people to drink BERO. So how are we strategically going to build to that? But I think having a long-term perspective, even though you're really managing what's happening tomorrow, was really important. Speaker 1: I want to tap into now, you talked a little bit about the fundamentals you need into making sure that your business is going to be built correctly. Now, once you start to get into some of these doors, and I know a big one was with Target, of course, for you guys, the next big piece that is important that everyone says is half the battle is getting in, but the other half is selling. And there's an impact of like, of course, utilizing your prowess and using Tom's prowess, getting in helps. But you know, you guys aren't standing outside the store saying, hey guys, go buy BERO inside. What was like the, how you guys kind of focused on making sure this product also sells through, right? And making sure people know where to discover it and whatnot, because there's also not so much real estate of sharing all of this news all at once. I'd love to understand that a little bit too, especially with new brands where they have so much to share and you're probably getting into a new store or a new chain almost every few weeks. How do you manage sharing that information but still making sure that your customers aren't just inundated with go buy, go buy, go buy? Speaker 2: There's a balance between the storytelling of the brand and the commercial now available. When we first launched, we were just a direct-to-consumer like we've mentioned, and the number one feedback was, it's great, I really want to find it in-store. So when we had that curtains up, first it was Sprouts and then Target. Having those destinations was really powerful and we called it out. But then on top of that, for any new brand, the most important money you can spend in marketing ...is in-store discoverability and Target gave us end caps in 1400 stores that we were able to merchandise and BERO colors and library. We need to make sure that was executed. And I had a sales team of one person. You know, we worked with brokers, merchandisers to really go out there and help execute. But like that end cap was the biggest single piece of marketing. After the press, that was kind of earned media. And then I can't say enough, like Target leaning in on their social channels, production, press release, it really, you know, it really got the flywheel spinning and turning where You heard it in the press, you saw it on social, you went to the store, you couldn't miss it, and it was like the perfect, you know. Speaker 1: Any recommendations on what to ask for if you're a new brand going into some of these bigger chains, whether it's Walmart, Target, whatever it may be, how to kind of make sure that you're not just somebody that's just a yes man, but also, you know, asking for a seat at the table and choosing what you want. Speaker 2: I think the most important thing, and this doesn't matter if you have a celebrity backer or not, Don't celebrate getting the listing. Getting a listing and launching a brand are two very different things. Not every brand is going to have the same playbook open to them for that launch. If all you do is get the shelf and if you're selling beverage, if all you are is on the ambient shelf or if all you are is in the dark bottom row, that's not enough. It's not doing a service to your brand. It's not doing a service for the retailer because yes, you're going to celebrate when the first opening PO comes in, but when it doesn't turn and you're talking about markdown six months later. So turn down business if you can't launch the brand. I think that'd be the hardest thing to say no to, but I think it's an important one. Speaker 4: One thing we spoke about with at least Avi, right, is kind of like surveying customers and getting that feedback to develop the new product roadmap, right, the future of the brand. One thing that you guys mentioned was, all right, you got the feedback from DTC that, hey, we want to find this in store and shop there. Now, being in retail dominantly, Do you still get that same level of feedback to kind of improve on the product and you know create that roadmap or is that a little bit more difficult now? Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a constant loop. I think We're, you know, whether it be social media and, you know, sliding into the DMs, as the kids say, or, you know, we look at the product reviews, we're constantly tweaking. So it could be new innovation, like people are really interested in maybe a dark beer. Okay, let's develop into it. When can that fit into our pipeline? Maybe some people don't like certain elements of the flavor. So then our brewmaster can say, okay, If there's too much of this, maybe I tone that back in a future BERO or regionally if there's a specific account that maybe they're really interested in finding it. We are really trying to listen. And make the brand something that will be, you know, again, distinct, different and really, really special. Speaker 4: So most of that is probably just like listening on social, on the Instagram page, comments and things like that. Speaker 2: A hundred percent. Speaker 4: Yeah. Speaker 2: And it's a very vocal group. So, you know, we get a lot of emails too and I made the mistake of making my email address way too easy. So they figure it out often with mostly, yeah, the complaints they find my email address, the positive comments they keep to Amazon. Speaker 4: Yeah, fair enough. Speaker 1: I'm very curious. We talked a lot about obviously Tom and his role in this. At the flip side of this though is also where if you have somebody who's too attached to the brand and like are, you know, you almost can't diversify away, right? One thing I love is like, you know, I've gotten your guys' ads and I probably would say I've seen less of Tom than I have seen others, which is awesome because it doesn't feel like it's like You know, hey, it's just this one person's identity leading something. How are you guys balancing that and how are you guys approaching that? Because I've seen so many people then sometimes have an influencer or celebrity and they're kind of like, this is all we have, you know? And so how do you guys kind of, maybe if it's in your paid marketing strategy, how are you guys approaching that? Speaker 2: I think more holistically, I think some of my first conversations with Tom, it was, okay, year one, We're going to lean more on this story of why you created this brand than we probably will in any other year. So, completely arbitrary percents, but if year one is 80% Tom, 20% lifestyle and brand, maybe year two is 60-40, year three is 50-50. But over time, you know, the brand needs to stand on its own. You look at like a Casamigos. You almost forget today that George Clooney was the face of it. I think creating a brand that felt distinct with a lifestyle that people want to be part of that just seemed cool, that could live without Tom one day. And it wasn't because he doesn't want to be involved in this. I mean, talk about growing old and you know. Being involved in BERO for a very long time, but I think it was important that the brand could live without him too. Speaker 4: We spoke about the in-store activations and the marketing side, and now we're kind of moving towards the paid, but I'm selfishly asking, but what does the paid strategy really look like when you are in different retailers and across different, maybe it's liquor stores or retail stores and things like that? Speaker 2: From a paid media standpoint, we're really focused on driving the funnel for discovery ultimately on our website. Get to know the brand, why the brand exists, come to the website to learn more. And we of course have store finder and things like that, but we're not doing a ton of paid media that would then drive to retail. You just lose them from your funnel. It's hard to really keep track of like, was that a successful ad or not? You know, we have a few different, you know, versions of story and like, they're not, They're not interchangeable necessarily, but like, you know, Tom Holland, why he founded it, his story, him talking about it to the lifestyle of the brand, the premium, the new gold standard, to the history of the beer, why the beer tastes like it does. But we're really trying to ground in more of the brand fundamentals. Take you to the website and then hopefully you can find us from there. Speaker 1: You can touch a little bit on when you're looking at content, especially for the messaging and angle you're going for, right? I think there is two worlds that this kind of NA space lives in. One is like, there's a lot of people who are like, alcohol is bad, have this. And then there's some people like, you can do whatever you want, you're really sure the alcohol to be but You can also have a balance with this, right? And I'm very curious on like, how did you guys choose a path on that? How are you kind of utilizing your messaging for that? Speaker 2: So again, first conversation I had with Tom, he told me at that point, a year and a half sobriety journey, his personal decision, how it was a struggle. And then when he got there after six months, he had never felt better. And my first reaction was, well, I really respect that. Like, that's incredible. I'm not on that same journey. I enjoy wine. I enjoy a glass of whiskey, but I'm in my forties now. I have a little girl. I'm doing this company. I try to stay fit. There are too many reasons why I can't wake up tomorrow feeling awful. You know, I did find over time, especially on this journey where, hey, maybe I do take sober October off. Maybe I don't drink in January. That launch week when I mentioned it was like back to back to back to back, I only drank beer the whole week. And had I actually had a full strength drink, I probably would have woke up the next day like not being able to function that well. So when I started realizing this brand isn't created for me, but like, I started thinking there were probably a lot of people like me, where it's like, maybe I need a night off. I'm a social creature. Maybe I'm on a business trip and I want to do dinner, but I don't want to feel awful the next day. That feels like something that could really, you know, be something a lot of people attach to. And then, you know, just throughout time, like I remember I had a friend over early in the journey and we hadn't seen them in a while. And as soon as she walked through the door, the first thing you do when you have a house guest is, hey, can I get you a drink? And her comment to me was, no, you know, I've had one too many, one too many times. I'm taking a little bit of a break. And throughout that journey, it really occurred to me like, there are a lot of people this can mean something to. The addressable market of this is huge. And I'm not talking to the X percent of people that gave up alcohol. You can talk to the 90% of people that are maybe saying, hey, I just want to drink a little bit less. And then, you know, the original idea of the brand for Tom was I want a brand that can look like it's appropriately in place and in a pub where I can hold it and not be judged, where it doesn't have a big blue double zero on it. And yeah, it's, you know, we're creating something premium and aspirational, but we also want to be inclusive where if you choose to drink that and I choose to drink something full-strength, that's cool. You're here. We're sharing a drink together. Speaker 1: It's awesome. Speaker 3: It makes such a difference when you hold it and it looks inclusive versus some of those NAs that... Speaker 4: The Heinekens. With the double zero on it. Speaker 3: But then there's like the crazy ones with the crazy neon colors and you look like you're drinking a soda. It's like, ah, just give me a beer. Speaker 2: It looks like a beer. Yeah, it looks like a beer. Speaker 1: Can you talk through some of the challenges you have faced in these first six months? And maybe some of them you're still going through, but maybe a couple that normalizes even having, you know, a relationship with like a celebrity co-founder and having the experience you do, the challenges are normal. Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the first one, I think this is unique to like the NA space. ...is non-alcoholic beer. You think, oh, that's like water or energy drinks. It's not. You're governed by the TTB, which is the Federal Governmental Agency for Alcohol, and then every state is essentially its own little nation, and they all have their own rules, and, you know, that can be being carded in California to, you know, basically this could be a can of vodka, and it's treated the same way in the state of Georgia. Speaker 1: Wow. Speaker 2: So, the amount I've had to spend on legal regulatory advice blew my mind. That's really unique to this. I think knowing cash and managing cash responsibly, even when you're starting with a strategic partner, ultimately, I owe it to myself. I owe it to Tom. I owe it to every single employee that came aboard that holds equity. I don't want to dilute the brand too soon. And I think managing cash really, really tightly and looking at everything going out, building inventory for the downside more so than the upside, that was a critical learning point. And, you know, we came into the year and, you know, the launch of Target was really great. But it could have also not been really great. And, you know, having the risk of What happens if I need to pull forward a raise or how do I make this paycheck if I'm out of cash because of payment terms? That was something that I was really wracking my head around. I think we ended up in a great spot and it helped that we overperformed our forecast, but in reality, that was a challenge. And then you're dealing with For me, this is a very important part of my professional journey. For Tom, this is his personal brand. It's the only time he's ever really put his name behind a brand. He has a tremendous reputation that is earned because he's a good human being. So knowing who he was working with, having trust in the decisions being made, you're building relationships and it's ongoing. And we got to a wonderful spot, but I think early on, making those decisions and putting the trust in how I'm represented, it's a big ask of someone. Speaker 4: Ultimately, what is the goal for the brand? Is it kind of sticking with the core products and getting it into as many stores as possible? New products, you know, maybe, I don't know, seltzers or the spirits of the world. What does that look like for you guys and what's the goal? Speaker 2: So, early on we debated, are we a non-alcoholic beer brand or a non-alcoholic beverage brand? And we landed on non-alcoholic beverage, even though 100% focused on the beer aspect right now. But we're absolutely non-alc. So, we're less than 0.5% which is technically non-alc. You see this rising trend of low alcohol like 2.5. We're not going to play there. You know, really focused on beer and I don't think that means proliferation of SKUs into 20 different styles and varieties. But like, there's a lot of ways you can innovate. You know, packaging. You know, we are looking at a very premiumized glass bottle. That we think can really elevate us for the highest end of establishments. Over in the UK, there's a brand called Lucky Saint, which is a really good non-alcoholic beer brand. They figured out draft and non-alc. That's actually really complicated because alcohol kills bacteria. So figuring out format is a major innovation play that we need to work on. We have styles. We don't have a West Coast IPA in our current mix. I think it's easy to say we will. Dark beer makes sense. And then long term, I'd love to look at what is that next category and opportunity. Right now, I think how we can premiumize the brand and really make these unique positions that support that, that's going to be the near-term focus. Speaker 4: Yeah, makes sense. Speaker 1: I have a question. This is more, I think, from the standpoint of your personal journey in building. When it comes to the The outlook of food and beverage, right? You look at the average consumer or even if you look at the non-alcoholic category, do you see a lot of like how much are you studying the market you're going after? Because I'm curious. You look at market economics and you look at the macroeconomy and you look at some of the things that are going on which have been kind of going on and things are shifting so much. Do you kind of ever get worried about like well, Is this too novel? Is this going too deep into something that only some people can afford or think about versus going after something that's like a mass appeal, something that more people would just take? And how do you think of like that, you know, you talk about TAM, but like how do you think about it from also just from a data point of view and making those decisions? I'm always curious because Sometimes when even when we're thinking about even SKUs, right, it's like, yeah, well is this just like just solving for too small of a population or how do you kind of think about that piece across the journey of you choosing to build BERO? Speaker 2: So I think the first is there are more and more really good non-alcoholic beer brands out there. So you got to be aware of your competition. It's critical. But beer has existed for thousands of years. There's a legacy that we want to tap into. So while I appreciate the new brand that is trying to expand this space, there's a history of how you tell beer, the ritual of drinking beer, when you want to enjoy it. That is something we want to tap. Then you get into the dichotomy of price point and premium. I'm a believer, and I think it's been proven time and time again, that in economic downturn, The low winds and the high winds, the middle dies. And I think us going after premium and being really Religious to that in the early days is going to be critical long term. And, you know, going back to the whole thousand year beer history, you know, you think of Stella Artois, Stella can sit perfectly fine in the highest end of establishment in their chalice, or it can be in the dive bar down the street. And like, it really, it really can stand on both sides of the line. And I think early on, we've really got to focus on the high so that one day we can go there. Because once you start down, it's hard to go back up. Unknown Speaker: Well said. Speaker 4: I mean your journey has been inspirational. It's been amazing to have you kind of on the obvious side and helping us and seeing what you're also building with this. So I appreciate your involvement in all that. For those who are listening, I would love for you to give them one piece of advice or one thing to bring back and implement in their business right after listening or watching this episode. Speaker 2: Probably the biggest thing is if you don't ask, you'll never get. So if it's an unreasonable ask of a partner, if it's an unreasonable ask of like how you can approach a formula differently, the answer might be no, or there might be creative solutions because you have people that are at the table with you. And that's not saying pound your fist and be unreasonable, but like You know, if you want to figure out a way to get better cogs, or if you want to find out if you can get capacity that you otherwise didn't think you could have, if you don't ask, you don't get. And people generally want to please other people. Unknown Speaker: So, Chew on That. Speaker 4: If you want more from us, follow us on Twitter, follow us on Instagram, follow us on TikTok, and check out the website ChewOnThis.io.