The SECRETS Behind Jaxxon's World-Class Customer Experience...

The SECRETS Behind Jaxxon's World-Class Customer Experience... Speaker 1: What is up, guys? Welcome to another episode of Chew on This. My name is Ankit Patel. I will be your host today, and we are joined by the brilliant Kayla Castillo. Kayla, thank you for joining me. Speaker 2: I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me on. Speaker 1: Absolutely. She is the head of customer experience at a brand called Jaxxon, which is a leading men's jewelry line known for their premium chains and customer-first approach. Kayla, I'd love to know a little bit about your background, your career path, and how you got to Jaxxon and what you're doing for them now. Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's been a really interesting journey. One that I didn't really imagine for myself, but kind of like the opportunities were just very open for me. My background actually is in fashion, but fashion history specifically. So I just kept continuing going to school. I really was into research and thought, you know, I could kind of go in a couple different paths here. But of course, I really was looking for jobs. Literally at the start of the shutdown in 2020. And so, you know, like a lot of us, you kind of have to pivot. And I actually, Jaxxon kind of came into my life because my brother, he was roommates in college with the co-founders. And so he started, he's like, you know, employee number one. And, you know, in 2020, I think it was like late 2020, they were growing really quickly. He's like, would you want to join our team? You know, like it would be on the customer experience side. I know you've worked, you know, I worked retail for years. I think, you know, anyone when you're going to grad school, you're pretty much focused in a lot of service level jobs. So for me, I'm like, sure, like, let's just dive into it. We'll see where this goes. I didn't really anticipate that, you know, at the start of 2021, I'd really be getting, you know, starting this journey where now I'm the director, it's been almost five years. And I've just put so much into this in ways that, like, it just makes so much sense for what I enjoy to do. You know, I like talking to people. I like jewelry. And, you know, kind of learning from other brands as well on like, hey, you can have a really customer focused strategy and, um, you know, have a lot of success with that. So it's been a really cool journey here. And, uh, I, I'm just, you know, excited for the next steps to take. Speaker 1: Oh, that's amazing. Um, I want to be completely transparent with you. So I never wear jewelry and that's not because I don't think it's cool. I think it's very cool. But I'm not cool. But I always get hit with your guys' ads. And I've added to cart a couple times because I'll start dreaming. I'll be like, wouldn't I look good rocking a Iced out human link chain. But you guys do such a great job with marketing. If you can get somebody who's never worn jewelry and get them to the point where you're literally adding to cart, I think a couple more ads and you guys may get a conversion. Speaker 2: Hey, I think you know it's one of those things you kind of have to just make a start and we've met so many people that they're like, you know, I never wear jewelry. I don't think it's going to look good on me. But now we sell watches. So hey, maybe a watch would work for you or even I've had guys like start off with like a beaded bracelet and they're like, oh, well now I've worn this for a while. I want to wear something different and I think it's just I mean, same thing with women. There's a lot of things where I'm like, I don't think I can pull that off. I'm not that type of girl. But if you take that, you know, first step and figure out, like, maybe this is for you, then, you know, that's what we're here to do, help you feel comfortable and test those new things out and then, you know, find you the right piece. Unknown Speaker: Before we get started, a quick word about today's sponsor, Instant. As a brand, you know you're spending real money to drive traffic to your site. Problem is, 90% of the traffic is anonymous. You don't know who they are, and once they leave, it's pretty much impossible to get them back. That's where Instant comes in. It identifies up to 10 times more of those lost shoppers, so you can send more abandonment emails, build stronger retargeting audiences, and actually win back that lost revenue. Liquid IV, 3rd Love, Truly Beauty, these massive brands use Instant to get an average ROI of 21.7X and Instant guarantees you a 4X ROI or your money back. That's right, 4X ROI. With the start of Q4, there's no time to waste. Triple your email sales and lock in smarter retention today. Just go to instant.one slash chew to claim 50% off your first 60 days before this offer expires. That's instant.one slash chew. Now, let's get back to the episode. Speaker 1: So Jaxxon is known for more than a product. It's known for how they treat their customers. What does great customer experience actually look like in e-commerce right now? Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this can be so different for different brands, but I think the one thing everyone's trying to focus on is balancing AI and efficiency with true authentic customer support, customer experience, that connection you want to make with your customers. And for me, that balance is ensuring that like the easiest types of questions can be answered with AI and automation, that also the people who literally never want to talk to a human, they just want like, hey, I want to, I don't want to deal with anyone, I want to do this, that they have that option. And then for the people who do really want to be able to have like dedicated care, or they just like to chat and they want to, you know, give their opinion. They want to get, you know, they want questions, like they have questions. They want to know how to, you know, like you said, maybe they don't know what to buy and they want someone's opinion who actually knows what they're talking about. And so being able to balance that and to not just be like, okay, we can do this 50%, 50%, you know, it's like you have to nurture that further. So I think for me, it's about Finding out what these customers are looking for and just taking that as far as possible. Speaker 1: Now, I really like what you said there about authenticity. How do you build a customer experience culture that scales without losing that authenticity? Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of what I do is it's a lot of being, I guess, open with your team. We communicate really well. We have some in-house members. We have some remote. We have some in other countries. And I think being able to Just connect with your team and be like, hey, this is, you know, teaching them what is Jaxxon? What is our brand voice and our tone? What are we selling? How do we want to treat our customers? But then also allowing everyone to be an individual. You know, we have some agents on our team who are just super caring and they're very nurturing. And they're the kind of people who can deescalate a situation. They can make sure that, hey, no matter what good or bad things have happened in the whole journey of your, you know, your shopping experience, We're there to make sure it goes well. And then we have other team members who are just super funny and chill and they'll talk to customers like they're their friends, you know, and I think also understanding too is not just being able to show your own individuality, but then learning what a customer might, you know, best, I guess, respond to, you know, because You could be on the phone and be like, well, I'm a super cool, chill person, but I'm talking to someone who's like a grandma and she wants to buy a gift for her grandson for Christmas. And she might not, you know, talk in the same way you do, but being able to understand, like, I need to meet my customer where they're at and still not change who I am to deliver that. Speaker 1: No, I like that. How big is the team now? The customer experience team? Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're a team of about 20. Okay. We've definitely had more, we've had less. I think it's one of those things that especially, you know, with how the economy has been this year, really trying to figure out like, Can we be a super lean team? Or can we hire more but then have a lot of focused roles and be able to do more projects and try out new strategies? So yeah, so maybe for some brands, 20 is a lot of people. And then sometimes I know where I'm like, man, I wish I would have had 10 or 20 more people on this team. But you kind of got to work with what you have. Speaker 1: No, it's crazy because, you know, I talked to a lot of brands and the variance between how many people is on that customer experience team, it varies so much because, you know, I'll talk to some brands. We're you know, there may be not there's not that much customer education needed or there's not many questions needed. And they'll have, you know, a very lean team of maybe two people. Yeah. And then you have brands like such yourself with 20 people. But you guys are such an experience focused brand, where you kind of need that to kind of push those levers. Speaker 2: Absolutely. It's, you know, it's very different from brand to brand. And I really like talking to other CX leaders to understand how they're doing it and maybe where things can help me learn. But it really is just so dependent on like what your product is, what your customers are looking for, and also like, yeah, what you can handle. Speaker 1: Yeah, 100%. So customer support used to be reactive. Now it's a key growth lever. How does Jaxxon use its CX team to drive customer retention and repeat purchases? Speaker 2: Absolutely. I'm very much like, I want to be proactive. You know, we ensure like, hey, if there's issues going on, we can reach out to our customers ahead of time, make sure we let them know of like, there will be an issue, but here's how we're going to take care of it so that you're not, you know, compromised. I think as well as we've done a lot of sales outreach. So we've reached out to customers who have abandoned carts or checkouts. We've tried this from an SMS and a phone perspective. We've definitely, you know, for me a big focus has been like how to deliver like a VIP or concierge type experience. And sometimes it's just being like, okay, here's all the people who bought this specific product. Let's reach out to them, you know, via email, give our phone number, see if there's anything else they want to learn about it. Do they need help? Do they know that we were here to assist them at any time? And then kind of go from there, you know, how can we get more reviews from them? Can we, you know, push them to a new product? Kind of just doing stuff where maybe it can be hard if you don't have like an automated process for it, but it's not impossible. I think just being able to know like when you can kind of schedule those things in, knowing the right time and then just having a process for it. Speaker 1: Now we run a brand called Avi and it's a women's supplement brand and something I wish we did a lot more of is the upsell on the customer experience end because I think it's such low-hanging fruit. Speaker 2: It is. Speaker 1: And like you guys do it so well and I see all these other brands doing it so well and it becomes incremental revenue at a certain point. What tools or processes help your team turn those conversations into conversions? Speaker 2: Yeah, I think being able to, you know, we use Gorgias for our help desk. I think being able to have kind of all that information right in front of you as you're talking to your customer is going to be like, okay, I know what products they've purchased. I know they've either given reviews or not, you know, maybe they're good, maybe they're bad, kind of understanding who that person is. And then also it's like product education. So like having your team just know a lot about your product. Also having like maybe a playbook or, you know, a guide for them to refer to. And yeah, I mean, just kind of having those tools ready to go. We also use Okendo for reviews. And I feel like that's really helped us as well. Just first of all, understanding if customers are giving feedback through there and then utilizing that to be like, hey, I saw you bought this chain. You loved it. You even mentioned you wanted to buy one for your friend. Well, guess what? We have that on sale and you can buy it in a bundle. Maybe you need to upgrade to a new chain or you never bought the bracelet to match it. Why don't we get that for you? Maybe we can throw in a discount. So I think it's just being able to use those tools to know exactly who your customer is. And I'm sure there's so much more we could do with the technology, but like I said, if you're able to learn that from what you've got, go ahead and push that. Speaker 1: So brand voice is very important, especially in customer experience. What goes into creating a consistent, authentic voice for an e-commerce brand such as yourself? Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such an important part of what we do. And I think when I started in 2021, we had such a small team. And we kind of all are wearing a lot of different hats working together. I did so much copy for our website, for the product pages, worked with the marketing team. And I think as we grew, we brought more people in who are adding their opinions and their experience into this, but it's still very much a collaborative process. And I think something I bring up a lot is, you know, I'm the one who sees what these customers, how are they receiving, you know, how we say things on the website or what we say in the emails or, you know, maybe something that was said on the podcast or in an Instagram post. And so being able to be like, hey, we gotta be consistent across all levels, it really takes communication within the team here at Jaxxon. And so, you know, making sure that your, you know, product education and things you're saying, Kind of follows with who we are and in Jaxxon, you know, we're a lot about, you know, people who are just really ambitious and they want to look their best and while we, you know, we focus a lot on men's jewelry, obviously, we also sell women's jewelry and women are the ones who are buying these gifts a lot of the times. So being able to understand too what's going to sound You know, really authentic and tie everything together to both men and women. And so for that, it's a lot about providing that feedback to your team. You know, for me, like, I'll get stuff from the product team and they'll say, hey, like, you know, does this make sense? Is there anything that you're, you know, you think we're missing? And for me, like I said, I studied fashion history and I still write a lot and I think being able to have some of that knowledge too, to be like, hey, I would say it this way, but I also need, you know, more information on like marketing. Are we trying to push a certain, you know, campaign right now? Is there something that you're working on that we need to tie and tease in? And so I really think it's the collaborative effort. You need to be able to talk to your team and Listen to what your customers say. And I think that's getting that feedback, being able to proactively bring that and be like, hey, it's not a bad thing if customers hate this or they love it. Like those all have a purpose, you know, to push the brand forward. Speaker 1: No, 100%. I think, you know, even us and when we talk to other brands, this is where they get stuck in the mud. You know, they'll have a great product. They'll have great visual branding. But because there's no real brand voice or tone, it's tough to get that trust across to the consumer. So how does that brand tone impact the customer's trust and loyalty over time? Speaker 2: Definitely. I think it's, first, you have to be confident in your brand and in your product. And if something goes wrong, know that you're going to back it up. You know, you're going to back up your customers. You're going to say, hey, if something went wrong, we're going to take care of it. Or alternatively, like, I know how good this is. Here's how we're going to show that to you. And it's not just the tone, too. You've got to have, you know, your evidence to back that up. For us, it's reviews. It's our policies. And also telling customers, no matter what our policy says, we're still gonna listen to you. Because there's always situations where things don't always fit within the box. You gotta be able to be like, okay, well, I can understand this situation, let's fix this for you. And I think too, like I said, we're very much about authenticity and from a customer experience and support point of view, I think you have to lead with that and you have to lead with empathy You know, warmth as well. I mean, that kind of sounds, maybe, I don't know if that sounds silly, but like, you got to, like, your customers have to know that, like, they will, like, our team will stick up for you and whatever you need, that, like, you're going to continue to purchase or you're going to tell your friends, you're going to do those referrals and write those reviews and, you know, maybe share our Instagram posts, tell people about the podcast. And it's all about creating those, like, those brand fans as well, but through, Just through that connection, like, I don't need to promise you, you know, these insane discounts. It's not like, here, me, Kayla, I'm, me and my team, we're here to take care of you. And I think that goes a long way and that's like the kind of thing that I know when I shop somewhere, I wanna know that I'm gonna be taken care of and that like I'm shopping with people who have integrity as well, you know what I mean? And like there's a level of care there just beyond the image of your brand. Speaker 1: No, yeah, I don't think it's silly at all to lead with warmth and empathy because I think at the end of the day, the consumer just wants to feel heard and not that they're just being shrugged off and talking to a bot or something. Unknown Speaker: Quick break to talk more about today's sponsor, Instant. Are your abandonment flows making at least 20% of your site's revenue? If not, you're in trouble. 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And I know we have the holidays coming up now, so I'm sure you guys are kind of getting those front lines ready because you are the front lines for a lot of that stuff. So speak to me about that. Speaker 2: I think the first and foremost, you have to be in sync with your ops team. And thankfully, we have a wonderful ops team. We actually do. We don't have a 3PL. We do all our fulfillment in-house. And, you know, my associate director of operations, she's wonderful. I've actually worked with her since I started here. And that's what you got to have that foundational for it. Like, first, you need to understand what they do, what their timelines are, what their constraints are, how things may, you know, like, hey, we can't be bombarding them with all these questions, because that's just going to slow them down. So being able to proactively create, like, here's a plan, here's how we're going to communicate on this. I think for us too, we learn year after year. You know, there's like, oh, there was that one crazy, you know, strike in Canada last year. We couldn't get anything out to Canada. You know, things like we knew this went wrong, but here's how we're going to fix it this year. And then also just being like, we understand things happen. Here's how we can work together. So for us, you know, my team is like, we have to be very educated on what those procedures are for them so that we're not bugging them when we know, hey, this is in process. Like, we're not going to, there's nothing we're going to do to speed this up. That we know how to talk to customers so that they're not complaining about shipping. I think as well as like me, I'm always just willing to get my hands dirty. Thankfully, our warehouse is pretty close by. So, you know, usually during this time of the year, I'm there a few times throughout the process and being like, okay, what are we going to do? Usually it's a lot of engraving questions. We have so many engraving requests for jewelry and that can be hard. You don't want to mess that up. So yeah, I think it's just really Just having such great communication. Never be afraid to get your hands dirty either, you know what I mean? If you have to reach out to a customer yourself, you have to go in there and maybe help with certain things. Just be willing to do it and I feel like it goes such a long way. Speaker 1: No, that's incredible. I mean, you're definitely getting your hands dirty by going to the warehouse and boots to the ground, so kudos to you. What advice do you have for bridging the gap between CX and Ops teams? Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, like I said, communication is big. I think having both, like for me, I think what I do is I explain, this may not seem like a problem to the ops team, but here's how customers perceive it. Here's what they're saying. So in order to compromise as well, I don't want them to feel like, oh my God, they have to change up all their things for us. We work together and how are we going to make this better for everyone? I think listening, you know, and also understanding the software too. Like, you know, my team gets really trained on the fulfillment software we use that nothing's messed up in the process. We understand who are the people we need to go to to ask for help. And I think that's not done just at your busiest time of the year. You do it all throughout the year. And you have to have understanding because things work differently. For us, we're just like, we want to take care of our customers. And on their end, they're like, hey, we're doing everything right. We've got thousands of orders. We're pumping them out. And we can't just pause everything because one person has this issue. So I think it's, you know, Leveling with them, having them understand where, you know, if this happens, this is how customers may feel about it. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: But also it's not a big deal because we know how to fix it as well. So, um, you know, having those kinds of plans in place and yeah, being able, being able to work with your team. And I know that could be harder if you have a 3PL, but I don't think that's, it's not going to stop you either. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 2: Just open up the, you know, open up that communication channel. Um, We want to talk through things before it gets crazy so that everyone feels like we've set a plan. And then, you know, just have understanding because as much as we get stressed with customers, you know, we've got tens of thousands of tickets piling up, but they also have all those things. And for us, we're behind a screen. Maybe we're comfortably, you know, at our desk answering tickets while they're in a warehouse and they're packing boxes and, you know, it gets hot, it gets cold. We're in Southern California. We don't know what the weather's going to be like from day to day. So, you know, It's a lot of understanding there too. Speaker 1: Yeah. No, a hundred percent. So we do have a 3PO and I know this time of year, I mean, it's about to get crazy. Our head of customer experience and our contact there at the 3PL, they're just texting each other all day, every day. And it is an understanding of, listen, I'm stressed, you're stressed. Let's not stress each other out. Let's try to de-stress each other. But I like how you said it. It's a little bit of a push and pull and it's a lot of compromise. And I think everybody has the same goal at the end of the day. Speaker 2: Absolutely. And I think too, if you just, you know, open yourself up to being there for when they meet, you know, they have questions. And also, I think a lot of treats tend to go a long way, you know, bringing some for the team and being like, maybe some candy or cookies this time of year might just really, you know, help you out. So that does not go unnoticed. Speaker 1: That's awesome. Let's shift a little bit to technology. So in e-commerce, speed is everything. Instant is a technology company on a mission to help innovate brands, drive revenue and retention automatically, reconnecting with shoppers before they disappear. How does having access to tools that accelerate operations impact how CX teams deliver great experience? Speaker 2: This is such an important question. I think it's a big one. For us, you know, we want to make sure that, like I said, AI and automation is super important. Though, like I say, I don't think everything has to be at the speed of light. We definitely want to have all the options, like hopefully we can have information on the site, things you can go do for self-service that like you'll be able to find this out quickly. So for me, having that technology, knowing where Where it makes sense as well, you know, I think there's, I've talked to other brands who are like, we need 70 to 80% automation and AI, you know, and for us, we just, I don't think we can get to that level, but also I don't know if I want to get to that level. For me, like we, we've, we found a lot of different ways to use AI. We use it with Gorgias. We also use it with Flip with our phone, for our phone team. And it helps so much. And I think I try to test it out too. Like if I'm a customer getting this, do I like it? Is it working for me? But I think where it comes really important, you know, like we had to tighten up our budgets this year, you know, and I think CX is the one who feels that tightening up first, you know, because It's marketing there. They need the money for ads and stuff. And you know, all these other teams, that's where all the funding goes for us. I'm like, where can I make cuts? Where can I tighten things up? And for me, I'm like, how can I do it without letting any of my team go, you know? So if I can continue to have certain things taken care of and sped up by AI and automation, but then use my team to do sales outreach, to do retention efforts, like reviews and Help with exchanges and upsells like that's where it makes the difference. So I think understanding like it's not about you need everything to be so fast and cut humans out of everything. It's just Put things where you need them to go. Speaker 1: No, that's, that's a great way to put it, especially when, you know, people are scared to lose their jobs to AI. I think AI can help and you can almost move those bodies to other revenue generating places. So that, I mean, that's a great tip. Why is it so important for brands to respond quickly, whether it's resolving customer issues, restocking or scaling campaigns? Speaker 2: Yes. I think, you know, when you do take too long for these things, you're going to lose customers. They're going to go somewhere else. They're, you know, people have very short attention spans. They're going to forget about it. I know for me, sometimes I'm like, I'll see an ad. I like it. And then I move on to my next activity. And I don't remember that ever again, unless like a month later and I'm like, oh, there's that one thing I thought about. You know, so I think that on the other hand, you have to be You have to be proactive. You do have to be like, just, you got to keep moving. Maybe it's not like, hey, we answer every ticket within five seconds, but it's, hey, I noticed there's an issue on the website. It comes to me. I talked to our web team. We fixed the issue. So that maybe only one person was impacted rather than like tens, hundreds, you know, thousands of customers. I think when it comes to restocking as well, we don't want customers to reach out multiple times like, did it get restocked yet? Did it get restocked? Because also I think that's where you start to lose trust. If you start giving answers like, this is going to get done ASAP, it's going to get done tomorrow, they're going to believe it because they trust you. And then if you lose that trust, then they're going to start to think that everything you say isn't true or you're just making stuff up on the fly. So yes, I think you really have to, I mean, it's all about the team communication. You know, we have, we use Slack. We have like so many Slack channels and I think that probably would freak some people out. It's a lot. But then we know, like, if this has a specific reason, it's going to a specific channel and it's not going to get lost in the, you know, the whole thing of like, what are we talking about here? Speaker 1: Yeah, a hundred percent. No, it's a, it's a great tip. I want to move to loyalty before we get into our rapid fire questions. So loyalty isn't built through discounts, it's built through experiences. What's one thing Jaxxon does differently to keep customers coming back? Speaker 2: Definitely. I think it's a lot of community building within our brand, and I think it happens in a few different ways. Definitely, you know, listening to what customers say, making sure we're bringing products out that, you know, they're asking for, that when they, you know, they like things, they don't like things, that we're discussing that and making choices based on that. I think also having consistency between teams where, you know, my team handles a lot of social media engagement. However, I will work closely with our, you know, like our TikTok team. And so, like, I'll get feedback from the TikTok live team and I'm like, oh, that was a great point. Let's make sure we're taking care of this. And, you know, sometimes if someone has an issue, I'm like, send them directly my way. Like, I'll make sure they're taken care of. I think, too, another way is Offering people, like I said before, you see who this customer is you're talking to, you see what they've purchased, maybe they're ones who reach out a lot, they like to give you feedback, and then being able to say, hey, we're not gonna charge you any handling fees, let's keep exchanging your chain out for the one you really love, you know what I mean? Let's do this until we can get it. Because you have some customers who maybe they're not interested in that, and some who they really want your product. Maybe they're having a hard time figuring out what they want. And so I think kind of meeting them, like I said, meeting them where they're at, I think trying to find things like a VIP, like working on a VIP concierge program, giving customers maybe a more elevated level of service, and understanding what customers want that and which ones are like, I'm just buying a chain, I'm just want to Order this. I want to get it. I don't want to talk to any people. And that's cool too. You just got to be able to know who those customers are and deliver what they're looking for. Speaker 1: Yeah, 100%. It's more about turning those one-time buyers into long-term shoppers. I think a lot of brands get it twisted where they're acquisition, acquisition, acquisition, but retention really starts at that first touch point. So you definitely want to make sure that, yeah. Speaker 2: And I think too, for us, we want to make customers feel connected. You know, for them, it's always like, do you want us to do this for you? If not, here's how you can take care of it. If you come back next time, ask for me and I'd be happy to help you. And I think kind of bringing that human connection between your team, even though you're like, it's a support team, but you're there to provide an experience. So if John shops with us and he's like, I want to talk to Kayla again, We're going to make that happen. And then you feel like, oh, well, I always shop with her because she always helps me. And then you have that experience of like, if you're in a store or, you know, whether it's a small store or a department store, you want to feel like you have someone there who's going to give you the experience you're looking for. Speaker 1: 100%. I always say it's like going to a barbershop. You know, you have the barbershop, but there's that one barber that you want to get the haircut from every single time. And it's not that he's better than everybody else, it's that you know what experience you're going to get with that barber. Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. You know what to expect and that's what you're looking for. Speaker 1: Yeah, 100%. So what's one CX metric brands obsess over that doesn't actually matter? Speaker 2: I think it's an NPS score. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: I think, yeah, for me, NPS is one of those things where it can be so skewed. People drop off so quickly. So you have like two questions answered and there's 10 to go from. And you don't have a ton of people who are actually answering those surveys. So it's one of those ones it's like, it's cool to look at, but I don't, you know, I don't focus on it. Speaker 1: You're not the first person to tell me that that NPS score is very skewed. Yeah, if you had to cut every CX tool except one which stays It would have to be gorgeous. Yeah, that's kind of like the North Star here hundred percent Faster response times or personalized replies what wins? Speaker 2: Personalized replies. Speaker 1: Yeah one thing most brands get wrong about customer loyalty is. Speaker 2: I think that brands get wrong that people need to accrue points to feel like they're, you know, they're building loyalty. I think it can be done so many other ways. Speaker 1: Interesting. What's one CX trend you think is overhyped right now? Speaker 2: I think it has to be that nobody wants to talk on the phone. Speaker 1: Oh wow, bringing the phone. Speaker 2: I don't know if it's a trend or a hot take right there, but I hear that a lot about nobody wants to talk on the phone anymore and I don't believe it. Speaker 1: No, 100%. Even here, we do a lot of CX on the phones, and it depends on who your audience is. We have a little bit of an older demographic. They feel like they need to call in, so 100%. And I have added this sixth question, and I'm asking for a friend. Is there a confidence ratio based on how big your chain is? Speaker 2: That's a funny question. I don't know. I've seen guys pull off like a three millimeter, you know, Cuban and two and a half millimeter rope. And I'm like, that just looks like it was designed for you. Speaker 1: I don't need a 10 pound. Unknown Speaker: Yeah. Speaker 2: Whereas some guys, maybe it's like, I don't know your build too, which is like, like I'm a, I'm a very short person. So I feel like I'm not going to wear anything that looks too overwhelming on me. Cause you're going to be like, what is she doing? But I think for guys to like, We have some athletes coming in here wearing the 10 millimeter iced out chain, but then I've seen the same guys rock a chain stack with some thinner chains. So it's what works for you. I think that You just have to have the confidence to know you can pull it off. And I think any guy can pull off whatever they're looking for. I'll let him know. Unknown Speaker: Before we wrap up, just a quick reminder about Instant. A good abandonment email can make all the difference, but 88% of shoppers never get one. With Instant, you can send up to 10 times more retention emails and use AI to personalize every single message. Fast-growing brands like Higher Dose, Garrett Popcorn and Karen Kane have tripled their abandonment flow revenue since going live. You could be next. Don't miss out. Book a demo today at instant.one slash Chew and receive 50% off your first 60 days. That's instant.one slash Chew. Now, let's get back to the episode. Speaker 1: Well, Kayla, thank you so much for being with us today. If you had to, and we always do this at the end of every segment, if you had to leave the audience with one piece of advice around customer experience, what would that be? Something for them to chew on. Speaker 2: I think the thing I would say is CX shouldn't be overlooked. It is something that maybe you have to find what your shareholders are looking for, the other departments. And be able to nurture that too. There's a lot of initiatives I have that I know is going to be really successful, but maybe it doesn't sound great to other people. So that's okay. Still focus on those things because you know what is going to make your team successful. But then also find those ways to bring the data to them, those really great I think qualitative examples and don't stop. Don't stop, you know, kind of pushing the needs of your team. Speaker 1: Chew on that. If you want more from us, follow us on Twitter, follow us on Instagram, follow us on TikTok and check out the website ChewOnThis.io.