The ICE Method: A Framework for Nine-Figure Business Growth | Josh Hadley

The ICE Method: A Framework for Nine-Figure Business Growth | Josh Hadley Josh Hadley: The word strategy is just the elimination of alternatives, which means this. There's unlimited number of ideas and ways that we could grow our brand. But which of the opportunities is going to provide the highest ROI among all the opportunities that present itself? Because we have limited resources and limited time. So strategy is being able to allocate unlimited opportunities with limited time and resources. Unknown Speaker: You're watching The Marketing Misfits with Norm Farrar and Kevin King. Kevin King: Mr. Farrar, I'm so happy you could figure out which button to hit to actually turn this live. You would think that after 60 episodes or whatever we've done, you would know which button. Do I need to get like a little sticker, like a Coca-Cola Zero sticker and put it on the button? Does your voice get on your nerves too? Every once in a while, but I just put it in 2X. How are you doing, man? I'm doing great. How about yourself? As my buddy Mark would say, I'm alive and kicking. Awesome. And that's your buddy who's on the friend list, right? Yeah, he made the shortlist. All right. Very good. He made the shortlist. Norm's so happy right now. Everybody's like, what are they talking about? If you go back and listen, I don't know exactly what's the episode with Adam Galaud. We recorded that and we were talking about different things and I talked about that. I went off I went to St. Bart's last week and I did a little sabbatical on myself. I spent four days sitting on the beach with a notepad in my hand and a cigar. Notepad in one hand and a cigar in the other hand just doing deep thought on business and personal stuff and somehow it came up in the conversation that I've made a list of actually who's my true friends. I have a lot of acquaintances, a lot of good buddies, a lot of good people, but who could I totally 100% count on? I announced on the podcast, Norm made that list. It's like four or five people on that list. Josh Hadley: That was it. Kevin King: Norm made that list. He's still in shock, I think, and still crying. He hasn't been able to tell his wife yet, so that's going to be dinner tonight. She's going to be like, guess what? I'm in the Dream 100, but I got something even bigger. Unknown Speaker: I made the list. I'm part of the team. Josh Hadley: You're part of the team. Kevin King: That's right. Speaking of someone that makes lists, our guest today is someone that makes every list. I think we just need to say, he needs to put on his bio, not an e-com breakthrough podcast, or not Hadley Designs, or not this. He needs to say Winner's Circle. This guy is always in the winner's circle. Everything that he touches turns to gold. I can't wait to see what happens. I think he's got 17 kids. I can't wait to see. One of them is probably going to be president or something one day because everything he touches, he and his wife touch, turn to gold. If you don't know Josh Hadley, Josh is one of the smartest guys out there. Entrepreneur at true heart. I think he'll tell us a story, but I think when he was in college, like a sophomore or something, I think it was, he was like head of the entrepreneur department. I don't know. He ran some big entrepreneur thing in his university, got out of school, went to work for American Airlines for a little while and said, the heck with this. His wife's a very talented artist and they formed a business and now they're just crushing it doing like eight figures a year. But not only are they good at business, but he's very good at We're going to talk about the marketing side and the psychology side and creating systems and streamlining because when you have 17 kids, you've got to figure out systems of how to manage it. I'm super excited to have our guest on today. When I say winner, I'm serious. He's spoken at several of my Billion Dollar Seller events. And he's always placing, he or his wife or both of them are always placing first or second. And I've had to pay him a lot of money over the years in winning. So I think he owes us some good stuff today. What do you think? All right. He'll deliver. He'll deliver. He better deliver. Where's the man? There we go. I hit the button. I hit the right button. Josh Hadley: You hit the right button What's up, gentlemen? Kevin King: How you doing Josh? Josh Hadley: I'm I'm good. Do you want me to bring my 17 kids in right now or was that? Kevin King: Just put them in the background Just have them all come in and wave that would be great. No, he doesn't have 17 kids. That's a joke. But yeah for at four, right? Josh Hadley: We have four kids. Kevin King: Yeah, four kids. Josh Hadley: I'm not trying to follow the path of Elon Musk. That's the way you made it seem at the beginning. It's like he's fathered a lot of children. Kevin King: How many does Elon have now? I just saw that the other day, like 17 or 18 or something like that. What? No, it is a lot. Josh Hadley: I don't know what the number is. I need to look that up. Kevin King: See, that's what we get to look forward to one day. If we become the richest person on earth, we get to have lots of kids, Norm. I mean, just imagine. You're not done yet. You just thought you were done. Maybe I have visions of banging all sorts of people. X day, Connie, X day. So Josh, for those that don't know you, tell us a little bit about yourself so just the audience that's never heard of you knows a little bit about who you are. Josh Hadley: Yeah, so Josh Hadley, my wife and I are e-commerce business owners. We have been running our own brand called Hadley Designs, which has really turned into a stationary empire. As Kevin mentioned, eight-figure brand and our focus and goal right now is to get to nine figures and become one of those brands that you will recognize and that you will see us on store shelves. You'll walk into Target And you will see our products there. That is like the vision that my wife and I have for our brand. And every day we get one step closer to that. So that's what we do. What originally got us into that though was my wife was originally designing custom wedding invitations for people. And so over the years, that was a decade ago, and we have just continued to pivot. Our journey has been filled with many ups and downs as any entrepreneur's world is. And in turn, about two or three years ago, Kevin, you and I were sitting at a dinner down in Austin. And I remember we were talking and you were like, you ask really good questions. You would actually be a really good podcast host. And I was like, you know, I've actually had that on my mind. And I think it was literally about six months later, I started my podcast. You were one of the first people on that podcast. And it was my version of just like being able to give back because I've learned a lot of this stuff that I, I'm an avid podcast listener. That's how I got started on my Amazon journey and in e-commerce as a whole was just listening to really smart people. Where were people winning? Where were they having success? And so that's what I do now with the Ecom Breakthrough Podcast is just trying to say, this is what I'm currently doing in my business. Here's other really smart people, what they're doing in their business. Here's how you could actually apply those into your own business today. So that's what keeps me busy in addition to the four children, not 17. Kevin King: Well, yeah, Kevin was close. Do you remember talking about podcasts back in the day, and I'm talking around, what, 2013 to 17? There's really only one Amazon podcast, and that was The Amazon Seller. I forget who the podcast host was, but if you were on Amazon and you were successful, you were on that podcast. Yeah, you had Kevin Reiser and you had The Amazon Seller. Oh, man. I know exactly what you're talking about. Josh Hadley: It was Kevin Reiser. He's no longer doing that. That was a long time ago. Kevin King: No, it was a different host. It was a different host. He came from the chiropractic world. I'm completely drawing a blank right now. But anyway, yeah, there was only a couple of them. Now it seems like, I think I'm tracking like 62 just to Amazon, specifically on Amazon. And if you add in all the marketing and The other stuff there, there's well into the two or 300 that are out there. So how do you, how do you, and podcasting is great, but the thing is. It's actually work. As you know, you got to get guests. You got to shoot it. What are you going to talk about? You got to edit it. You got to market it. You got to put it out. Marketing is not easy. Norm and I went to a podcast show last year and I think there was a staff that kind of surprised me. Yeah, this is a huge industry, but it was a very small percentage. What was the number, like three or four percent ever make it to seven episodes? Yeah. Or something like that. Do you do them in batches or do you do them every week? You're doing another one? How do you keep that schedule or do you keep a regular schedule? Is it every single week or is it when you can? Josh Hadley: Yeah. So we do come out with podcasts every single week. But as you would expect, you know, I do have a system behind the madness and I'm very like regimented with my time. And so I will I will batch the content. So I will go through six weeks. And I will record six months of episodes in those six weeks. And I've got back-to-back episodes lined up because like when I'm in podcast world, it's like I'm flying, right? Things are firing on all cylinders. And so I just want to keep that momentum going. So that is probably like if you were to ask some of the guests, I think somebody texted me and like we recorded back in I want to say January. He's like, dude, when does my podcast air? I was like, you got about a month or two. It comes with its drawbacks, but I'm not going to be the guy recording the podcast episode when. Kevin King: I don't know. Josh Hadley: The tariffs just come out and announcing, you know, breaking news. And I'm not the guy that's talking about, hey, Amazon just released this new update. I'm not. That's not me. You were talking about like podcast marketing, though. Here's kind of maybe I'm interested to get your guys's thoughts since you went to that podcast conference. This is kind of the path that I'm on with my podcast knowing that like look my full-time hustle right now is the brand and growing the brand. The podcast is almost like I'm sharing my journey from an eight-figure seller to a nine-figure seller and people get it kind of like it's almost gonna be like a diary or journal entry for myself when I look back on it at some point in life. But the main thing that I'm doing, here's the marketing that I am doing, because I'm not generating any revenue from this. I'm not doing any sponsorships, nothing, right? In fact, I pay a video editor, I pay a podcast editor, so I'm losing money for all intents and purposes, so why? Why do I do it? Well, number one, it allows me to network with really smart people, right? And that's one of the funny things is like I just had some of the founders from Simple Modern on my podcast. This is a $250 million brand, very well-known brand. And you just ask somebody, it's like, hey, would you like to be on a podcast? It doesn't matter how many followers I do or don't have. Just saying, do you want to come on my podcast adds a lot of credibility. So I love the networking aspect of it, number one. But number two, I feel like it's my version of golf, being able to stay in contact with people that I know are making waves and being able to say like, hey, let's talk again in another six months. And it gives me like a sense of purpose of like why I should reach out to those people, have them back on the show again. But like the only way I'm marketing the podcast, Kevin, is like, I'll go speak at events, right? And just raise awareness. Like, hey, I do this other thing called a podcast. Subscribe. That's about it. But like my core thing of marketing and this has been the mindset shift that I've had as I've learned from Alex Ramosi, which is if I can focus on putting out excellent content, That will just spread, that people will say like, holy cow, that episode was fire. I've got to go share this with my mastermind group or my business partner or my friend that's in the e-commerce space, right? That to me, like focusing on the product, my product in the podcast is like the content itself. Can people get actionable level insights from every episode? So I hope that that's what I'm trying to be known for and I went to a million-dollar seller networking dinner just a couple days ago here in Dallas. And three people, the first thing that they said is like, hey, I had your face like staring at me on the card drive here. And I was like, and some of these people I had never even met. And I was like, oh, that's cool. And then they then had shared it. They're like, yeah, I just shared it with my business partner. I was like, okay, like I'm doing something good. So it's like what I, the analogy I use is my podcast is like bamboo. The growth is extremely small and slow right now. And one day, the hope is that that thing will just shoot through the roof and just doesn't stop growing. It's like, where'd this guy come from? Kevin King: Well, I think everybody should have every brand should have a podcast and an app. Every branch, I just met, well, back on the, every branch should have a podcast for the exact, even if you're not gonna monetize it, like you said, you're not monetizing it right now. Eventually, maybe you will, but it opens that door. It actually gives you some authority and credibility and people will talk to you and you can, you're controlling the narrative when you're the host of where you go, what path, so you can ask questions and Norm and I will do this sometimes on Marketing, we'll ask questions for ourselves of the person on the podcast It's something that he and I are working on. This just happened earlier when we shot today. This is the third one we've recorded today. It happened earlier. We both asked a couple of questions that are more for us, but also it benefits the audience and we know where to go. I think podcasting and YouTube, what we found at this conference is that YouTube is the number one place for podcast discovery. It's not Apple. It's not Spotify. It's actually YouTube. So that's an area that we've doubled down on and are really working right now because we kind of neglected it and we're just posting stuff up there and just letting it sit. But actually we're making a concerted effort because that's where we think the biggest opportunity for growth is because something like 55% or 60% of all podcasts are either found or listened to on YouTube. And now a lot of people are watching it on big screen TVs in their house. Something like 40% of all YouTube videos are viewed on a 75 inch or larger screen. And so that's a big one. But another one that's big, and I don't know if you're doing this with Hadley Designs and if you're not, it's something that you and your wife should look into, is an app. I just met someone doing $21 million a year on TikTok. They don't even have their own brand. They're reselling. It's pants. It's some sort of women's pants that fit all different sizes of women. They have competition. They're not on Amazon at all. They're not on any other platform at all. That's something that Norm and I are going to be talking to them about and trying to help them out with. They're out of Houston doing $21 million a year. She's got a 25,000 square foot warehouse. And they just figured out TikTok and they're developing their own brand now to, you know, use that data. 9,000 SKUs or, you know, it's like a thousand parents, but then we add all the different sizes and stuff. And what she was saying that, look, we do well on TikTok, but where we make our money is on our app. We developed an app four years ago for our brand. And we can do all kinds of push notifications. We don't have problems with email, you know, going to the spam or this or that. She said, we've come out with a new item or a new sale or new whatever we push out on the app. We'll do $10 million this year off of our app. It's our customer's only app. So there's so much you can do as a brand. You don't have to think of podcasting or apps as something that, they're great brand supplements. And I think you get to talk about Hadley Designs. We get to talk about what we do. And I think everybody should be looking at those. Hey, you know what, Kev? I was talking to a client this morning about, he sells knives. But he has and he's made a gazillion dollars on apps. So I wasn't going to talk about this today, but since you brought it up, I told you about this tattoo app that the guy made. I have a couple of tattoos and I thought this was a pretty cool app. Do you know He was saying these are what these guys are making per month on this app, okay? $600,000 per month. In product sales or in membership sales or what? In membership sales and he says he hasn't even touched the tip of the iceberg yet. And with no code software, with AI now, you can do an app. Yeah. I mean if you have some basic technology, You don't have to be an expert. You can do some pretty cool stuff. Is this something that you've looked into at Hadley Designs at all? Josh, are you putting that, did you just make a note like app? Yeah. Josh Hadley: For real. You know, Kevin, it's a great, like, I agree 100%. And here's what I love about marketing, right? And I learned this too early on. One of the first mastermind groups that my wife ever joined, My first meeting was War Room with Ryan Dice, Perry Belcher. That's how I met you. Kevin King: You were in Austin and I think Rich Goldstein actually. We went to dinner at a sushi place and that's where I first met you, I think. Josh Hadley: Yep, exactly. So that was like 2017 when we first joined that and here's the thing, right? Everybody like there's some wicked smart marketing tactics out there. Here's what I did learn from this is everybody's kind of got their like a zone of genius. Like I think if we decide to double down on an app, I think we can make it work. If we decide to double down on podcasts for Hadley Designs, we could make it work. If we decide to double down on TikTok with Hadley Designs, we could make that work. What I have learned is that business strategy is nothing more. The word strategy is just the elimination of alternatives, which means this. There's unlimited number of ideas and ways that we could grow our brand. But which of the opportunities is going to provide the highest ROI among all the opportunities that present itself? Because we have limited resources and limited time. So strategy is being able to allocate unlimited opportunities with limited time and resources. Kevin King: Hey, what's up, everybody? Kevin and Norm here with a quick word from one of our sponsors, 8Fig. Let me tell you about a platform that's changing the game for Amazon sellers. That's right. Unknown Speaker: It's called 8Fig. Kevin King: On average, sellers working with 8Fig grow up to 400% in less than a year. 8Fig offers both funding and free tools for e-commerce growth and cash flow management. And here's how it works. 8Fig provides flexible data-driven funding tailored to your exact needs. You know, they could fund anywhere from up to $50,000 all the way up to 10 million. 8Fig gives you free tools to forecast demand, manage inventory and analyze cash flow. Visit 8Fig.co, that's 8Fig.co to learn more or check the link in the show notes below. Just mention Marketing Misfits and get 25% off your cost. That's 8Fig.co, 8Fig.co. See you on the other side. Josh Hadley: And so one of my favorite things is just to like be able to say like, yes, love this idea. We go through a scoring mechanism, which is the ICE scoring framework, which is how what is the impact? ICE stands for the impact that this idea can have, which is this could actually be game changing for our business, right? This could be the iPhone. As it was for Apple, right? So impact is one. C is going to be its complexity, right? Like how easy is it for me to spin up, you know? An app, right? With AI, it's easier, but I have no technological background. Like, I'm not a coder. I'm not a developer. So, like, let's say it's going to be moderately more difficult, right? And then E is, like, it's ease of implementation into your existing systems, right? It's like, do we have anybody, like, is app development, customer service and things like that something that we could easily bolt on? Or is that like, you kind of need to hire more people, new specialists in order to Maintain that system. So as we score different ideas and priorities, we're able to see, like, which of the opportunities that we have in front of us make the most sense, can drive the highest ROI, so that we can focus on doing the best thing with our time and limited resources. So, Kevin, to answer your question, that was a long answer to a short question, which is, I've added it to my list. Kevin King: I like that ICE framework. That's something a lot of entrepreneurs, they keep chasing shiny objects. Yes. The new thing, the new, oh, everybody, you know, like right now in the Amazon space, everybody's, you got to be on TikTok. You got to be on TikTok. You got to be on TikTok. It might make, it makes sense for some people to go on TikTok. Other people, no, you're not ready or stay in your lane or whatever. And it, Just like this person I just mentioned, I just met that's doing 21 million and she's like, I'm tired. You know, I'm running like cragged. If I take a break, I can't, you know, the business, I couldn't be gone for more than a week, you know, and so she doesn't have the systems in place and she's like, I don't want to learn Amazon. I know I need to be on Amazon. I know there's a halo effect and I could be making a lot more money. I want to learn that. Can you help me? So staying in that lane, I think that's hard for a lot of entrepreneurs. It's been hard even for me. And one of the things that I just did on this little sabbatical thing I went on is like, what am I worth per hour? And so I'm willing right now to spend an hour or two a day doing stuff that's below my pay grade. You know, like, you know, answering a customer service email or what at this point, you know, that needs to eliminate. I'm willing to do that. But all the other times in my day and that includes down to if Norm and I do a webinar, you know, for Dragonfish, what is the ROI? If I'm going to put in five hours to create this webinar and we're only going to generate $7,000 off the webinar, that's way below my hourly rate. I'm not going to do it. We have to find other opportunities that will exceed that rate. And that's, I think, hard for a lot of people to do. And you're not going to always hit. Sometimes you think this is going to be a big payoff and it's going to turn into a mess or not hit. But I think that's a shift that a lot of entrepreneurs do. How did you make that shift or have you always had that in you? Josh Hadley: Yeah, I think it's a shift as you level up in business to be honest with you because I was the guy with the shiny object syndrome and that's kind of like one of the things I think our brand could be at least double if not triple the size that it is today had we not got distracted with shiny object syndrome. Hey, and I think the challenge was like as I went to like all these war room events I heard of all these people that were making money selling digital courses or they were selling membership sites or they were selling like who know like just the most random stuff like but they were just crushing it. And so one of the distractions that occurred to us that completely derailed us, to be honest with you, was like, we're like, oh, wow, these people are crushing it with the digital sales, digital products. Maybe there's like a course component to it. Why don't we do that for our own brand? So what we did is we started taking, look, we've been producing physical products and then all of a sudden we're gonna flip and start doing these digital products, sell them on Etsy, sell them on our own website. We're also gonna drive traffic from a blog. But yet, this isn't feeding the beast. The beast at the time that produced a million dollars in revenue its first year in business was Amazon for us. But yet, I had heard all these other shiny objects and cool things. I was like, oh, I got to go do that. And we distracted ourselves. We invested two and a half years of our time focused on this digital membership business, creating a blog, hiring people for that business that ended up making us maybe $10,000 at most. And we actually lost money, like that's $10,000 in revenue. That doesn't include the salaried people that we had. So like we probably lost over $300,000. And the wake up call came to us during COVID. Because at COVID, primarily we were a party oriented business, party supplies, wedding invitations, parties, you know, invitations, etc. Well, when COVID hit us in the face, we watched our business decline on Amazon 90% overnight. And so when that happened, like you're brought to your knees and you're like, what am I going to do now? Right? And so it was back to the drawing board. That's when, you know, my wife and I had the wake up call to be like, okay, screw the digital products. We're done. Like it hasn't even been making us money. We've been investing the majority of our time and energy on this side of the business. Wherein, if we would have just focused more on the feeding the beast, the thing that was actually working for us, We could have been double the size we are now, but instead we're not. So we came back. We had our kind of like moment to be like, what in the world are we doing? So now we laser focused on Amazon and we grew our, we did not stop focusing exclusively on Amazon in launching new products until we hit the eight figure mark. And I believe that's kind of like the threshold people need to reach to Until you begin considering other channels, I feel like that is like you should be doing a million dollars a month. In whatever channel you choose and stay in that lane until you've hit that eight-figure annual revenue run rate. Because then at that point, you can then, yes, explore and be like, okay, I'm crushing it on Amazon, but now I can go turn my attention over to TikTok. Because as soon as you turn your attention somewhere else, You're stopping the focus on the main thing that's actually driving the majority of your revenue. And so that was kind of like the breakthrough for me. And so what I've done is like surrounded myself with a good team to say like, okay, before I go pivot and I go focus on another aspect. Or another sales channel for the business, I'm going to ensure that we have leadership and that that channel can operate on its own. If not, I cannot divert my time and energy until I've got that one under lock and key. Does that make sense? Kevin King: Yeah, it does. In my opinion, a leopard never changes their spots. Entrepreneurs, they're always looking for those shiny objects. I'm glad to hear that you've got some checks and balances in there, but what's really going to stop you from going out and seeing these 10 other shiny objects? Have you mastered that yet? Josh Hadley: No, because I go to Kevin's conferences, I go listen to your guys' podcasts, and I've got more ideas, right? And that's any entrepreneur, right? But I think it's being able to take those ideas and then being able to say like, okay, how do I build a team around me that can support that? So let's take, for example, like, all right, TikTok shop. If you are interested in scaling TikTok shop, right? And you're already having success on Amazon. And by the way, my rule of hitting eight figures like it's not a hard and fast rule. It's just a it's like a ballpark, right? You want to say like you've hit some decent momentum in that business. And really the reason why I say eight figures is like if you've hit eight figures, you should have a good enough net income. To be able to support hiring leaders and staff that can continue to support the growth of that main channel, right? So Norm, as I look at these additional channels and when I do have these new ideas, a lot of the times I'm adding them to my to-do list and what I'm doing is I begin networking. And I begin networking, figuring out who's the right who that I need to bring into the business that can go execute that strategy for me. What I have learned personally for myself is that I'm never going to be the person that is going to be the master of TikTok. I'm not going to be the master of Amazon. I would rather have team members that know it inside and out and they could even run circles around me. But what I feel like a good entrepreneur is able to do and the people that have been able to surpass nine figures ...is they've established a team around themselves and they have hired the right people that can come knock their socks off. So Norm, at the Billion Dollar Seller Summit, I talked about my TikTok strategy, right? But guess what I've done since then? Like I was able to get TikTok maybe off the ground, but my whole focus has been can I hire somebody that's like a six-figure plus salary person that can come master this and run circles around me? And we were able to do that. We were able to find somebody that again, Kevin, you talked about this other lady doing 21 million. I found one of the guys that ran L'Oreal's brands. Right. And getting some just amazing people that know their stuff, hiring them and creating incentives that align both parties. And then we're off to the races. So, I mean, that's that's kind of like I take my shiny objects and then I'm like, who's the right person that could actually run that? Because it's not myself. Kevin King: So this first level or second level tier, right? So you've got you and your wife and then you've got this executive tier. Now, I've seen you and I've heard you talk about your hiring policy in the past, but are these all, would you consider them all six figure people? Like you just talked about L'Oreal and then the next tier down, you can go to the Philippines, India, wherever you want to go. How are you structuring that? Josh Hadley: Yeah, great question. So we have like 80% of our team is in the Philippines. We also have Mexico. We also have some in the US. Here, like ultimately, here's what I do. The best who's, I have my hiring process and it's really like if you need a customer service person, I know I can go find like one of the top customer service people through my normal process. When it comes to like really like wicked smart, like I'll call them growth marketers for all intents and purposes, right? These are people that can basically be like the GM of a single channel and just like get you blown up. Those from my experience have all come from networking. Which then goes back to another reason why I do the podcast, like I said, forces me to network with really smart people. So I could say, and that's where this TikTok lead came from. It's like somebody else that I had on my podcast that I just reached out and said like, hey, by the way, I'm looking at this. Do you know anybody? He's like, actually, I just had a conversation with this guy yesterday. Would you be interested in talking with him? So I feel like when it gets to that level of leadership, it's less about, Those type of leaders you're not going to find through a job post on Upwork or LinkedIn. It's going to be from somebody that's already working somewhere else that you're going to have to convince of your vision, your strategy, and poach them, so to speak. Kevin King: Now, a quick word from our sponsor, LaVanta. Hey, Kevin, tell us a little bit about it. That's right, Amazon sellers. Do you want to skyrocket your sales and boost your organic rankings? Meet Levanta, Norm and I's secret weapon for driving high-quality external traffic straight to our Amazon storefronts using affiliate marketing. That's right. It's achieved through direct partnerships with leading media outlets like CNN, Wirecutter, and BuzzFeed, just to name a few, as well as top affiliates, influencers, bloggers, and media buyers all in Levanta's marketplace, which is home to over 5,000 different creators that you get to choose from. So are you ready to elevate your business? Visit get.levanta.io slash misfits. That's get.levanta, L-E-V-A-N-T-A dot IO slash misfits and book a call and you'll get up to 20% off Levanta's gold plan today. That's get.levanta.io slash misfits. You've outlaid that at some webinars and at different events, but you've got a pretty sophisticated for finding the lower level people or the customer service type of people. You've got a really good process for actually vetting them. I remember even on your TikTok, what you laid out at BDSS and ended up winning. What was your whole process? Like most people reach out and then they send out samples. You're like, no, they're going to fill out a 30 page questionnaire or whatever the heck it is and answer these five questions. They're going to do all this. They're going to prove that they actually want to work with me. And you had this whole process and then you'll send them the samples because there's, you know, like on TikTok shop, there's a lot of people just want free samples and they're not going to ever do anything. Your processes, where does that come from, the system stuff? It's not just the employees, but you've talked about it in other places, in Market Masters and other events and stuff. Where does that come from? Is that something you learned in a war room? Is that something that's been inherent? Did you hear a podcast somewhere where someone talks about it and inspires you? Josh Hadley: Where did that come from? Yeah, so that's where the shiny objects are actually very, very helpful. So to answer your question about like my hiring process, my hiring process is basically a culmination of reading some books, but mostly attending conferences. And either it's a speaker that says something that I'm like, that's a really good question to ask, or that's a really good stage of how they hire people. I'm going to add that to my process. And in turn, I've been able to create a more fleshed out system. But it wasn't like, oh, I followed somebody else's playbook. It was somebody had this idea. I'm really good at that. Like, here's where my creativity shines through. And my wife says, like, I don't know where this creativity comes from. But I'm not like, artistically, I'm horrendous. Like, I'm not creative that way. But from a business perspective, like I'm I'm fairly creative. So like with the TikTok stuff, right, I had heard what other people were doing. And then I just applied some of those things that, you know, I had learned from Perry Belcher, things that I had learned from Ryan Dice, things that I have learned from, you know, your Market Masters events, Kevin. And then I just like, I drip them in. And I test them out. And so really like I think like here's the lesson learned is people should always be learning. Always be learning. And be in the right rooms with the smart people so that you can learn these things. And I don't think it's necessarily like I can't pinpoint anything to it was this one presentation that changed my life. It's a culmination of all these things that I've learned that I've then been able to adapt into my own filters and systems that have made it as powerful as it is today. Kevin King: It's interesting you say that because as you and Norm both know, I go to a lot of events. I'm cutting that back some and being more selective. I've got some new rules. What I get from them is not necessarily a new shiny object. The only one really in the last five years is to do a newsletter. But that's something I did 20 years ago and it just reminded me as a kick in the butt like, hey, Kevin, you're missing this. You should do it. So I started a newsletter. That's the only like new business channel that's come from it recently. But I hear stuff and I treat them like brainstorming sessions and I'll listen to podcasts or I'll watch webinars in 2x or 3x. I'm just looking for that one little thing that I can apply and it's a curation. It's like exactly what you said where you heard this one person say this, you heard this person say this, this one say this. Let me put them all together. And if you're not constantly learning and constantly listening to stuff or going to these events, you're not going to get that. You're going to get a very myopic view of stuff and I think that's what happens with a lot of entrepreneurs because they don't do the learning or they say they're going to and they subscribe to stuff but they never listen. They're too busy. And I think that's what sets the big ones apart. I think it was – who was it? It was one of the guys on Shark Tank, the guy from Canada. Robert? Robert, yeah. He recently said something. I saw something come across TikTok and someone was interviewing him and it was a little short and he's like, these are the three things that – we analyzed all the billionaires, all 237 billionaires or whatever they are in the world. And these are the three characters we found in common. One of them was discipline. But a second one, I can't remember exactly the third one, but the second one was constantly learning. Constantly learning. And not just in their field, but in other fields as well. And like you said, they don't have to be the expert, but they can put the dots together. And I think that's a skill that a lot of people don't have and a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with. Josh Hadley: I think that in general for anybody, whether you're in the marketing space or you're just an entrepreneur at heart, the main thing that you should be focused on is casting a vision and knowing where you're going. I hear a lot of people, Kevin, especially in the Amazon space where I first started, They see this as just like their break for financial freedom, right? And there's a lot of these people that create these, you know, they cross seven figures, maybe eight figures. And then guess what I hear? They're starting yet again, another brand, another brand, another brand, another brand. I feel like a lot of people do themselves a disservice when they're not willing to to learn and do the hard things. That's been something that I've tried to teach my team. We were literally just talking about this yesterday. Last year was a very challenging year for our business. For the first time ever, I had to invest my own personal funds back into the business to be able to fund payroll. Right. So it was a very, like, very down year, very challenging year for us. And so it was stressful and it was painful. Well, guess what? On the flip side, this year we're up 75, 100% and we're doing great. But guess what? It's still painful and it's still stressful. And so the realization has come to this. Look, business, life is stressful. It means you're living, right? I would much rather have the stress and the pain that comes from growing Then I would from declining. But do you know where that growth really comes from? It's when you lean in and you have to do the hard things. And my favorite analogy is this in the business world, which is just like playing a video game. And you go back and you had to like, you had to beat levels, right? And there was always a boss. Alex Ramosi talks about this. There was a boss at the end of every level and were a difficult challenge that you had to overcome. And guess what? You are probably going to die nine times Before you actually succeeded on the 10th time. And that's where I feel like people give up too often is they can't beat this boss. They're able to beat the first boss, which is like, okay, I crossed a million dollars on Amazon or whatever it is. But then, you know, maybe your friend on the TikTok side of things, right? The next boss that you have to beat is going to be a challenging boss, right? If they're doing 21 million on TikTok, They might be stretched thin now, but guess what? The boss is that they need to beat. They need to beat the boss of guess what? You need to be able to hire somebody, a growth marketer or a COO that can come in here and run your existing TikTok business. Keep that afloat while you then go say, guess what? And then I could double my brand if we go over here to Amazon. So let me, I'm making $21 million. Their net's probably what? At least two, five million bucks. Kevin King: No, it's 6%. Josh Hadley: You're still doing well, right? You're still above a million dollars, so you take that and you go invest it into hiring a six-figure entrepreneur or growth marketer that can go run an Amazon for you, and you go give them that playbook. Long story short is this, I feel like too many people give up. And they're not willing to go through figuring out how to beat that boss, level up. And so the grass is always greener. They say, well, I know how to go make a couple million bucks. I'll just go start a new brand. But if you were to really cast that true long vision, that's why I say for myself, it's nine figures. So for me, I know that's my vision and I've got a lot of obstacles. I got a lot of bosses that I need to beat. I'm at level one right now and I got to get to level 10. But it's being willing to be patient with myself and knowing the amount of growth that comes as I just continue to do and focus on the hard things because most people don't. Kevin, I shared that at Billion Dollar Seller Summit. That's the way I wrapped up my presentation. Do the hard things because most people won't. That's why my hiring process is ridiculously hard for people to come through. That's why my creator process, it's ridiculously hard because most people won't do it. But the people I attract and that ultimately come through that, they're worth their weight in gold. Kevin King: I listened to what you said there and very insightful. There are a bunch of people that get into Amazon, Walmart, whatever, building a brand and they don't understand what it takes. They watch a YouTube video and now they're all in with one toe and they get kicked between the legs and they're down. There's a lot of people that are in business right now that should not be in business and they should get out and fail quickly. And you know, if you, if you can't stand there and get kicked two, three, four, five times in between the legs and not get up, brush it off and you can learn to do it. But if you don't have that risk evaluation, then being an entrepreneur is not for you. On that same note, how do you know when to give up? You just said you got these bosses and you might have 10 levels to go. How do you know like, okay, I got past one, I'm past two. All right, this just ain't working. How do you know? And that's what Norm is referring to is like a lot of people should be giving up and moving on to something else, and they're not. So in your mind, What is, how do you make that judgment of that decision? Josh Hadley: Yeah, I think it's fantastic. So I think like when you go through that ICE scoring method, right, as I look at my different priorities, like I've got to have a goal that gets into it, right? So here was our goal for TikTok shop last year, right? Because that was our Hail Mary. When times were tough, I was like, all right, we got to figure something else out. Kevin King: Which is when usually the best stuff happens is when times are tough. Josh Hadley: 100%. Yeah. Kevin King: Best ideas come out at that time. Josh Hadley: Backs are up against the wall. So Kevin, this is the answer. My back was up against the dang wall. It's up against the wall. I can either figure this thing out or guess what? It's probably going to be a really rough year and we're going to have to start laying off more people and maybe that's the end of our business, right? So if you approach, and what I learned It's a matter of volume. Most people do this and people will ask me about TikTok shop. They're like, how are you having success on TikTok? And I'm like, well, we reach out to a bunch of creators. And so they're like, yeah, I've done that. Man, the videos they create are terrible and I've generated like maybe two cells. This is a question I ask them. Well, how many samples did you give out? Like how many creators are we talking about? And the answer is oftentimes Fifty, maybe a hundred, and they're impressed. They feel pretty good about themselves if they can say a hundred. And then I laugh and I say, okay, that's like, try a thousand, right? Try 10x that. And what I've learned from this is like, I went all in, Kevin. I was messaging creators thousands of creators to try to pitch my product, right? To try to get them to promote my product. And it was not easy. And it was a lot of hours myself trying to get this out. But most people give up. And that's why I go back to like, the boss was, oh, I tried this. The easy button didn't work, Kevin. I tried this. I clicked a few different people. I said, okay, I'll send you out some samples. But that only took him just a few hours to do that. I'm talking about a full month where it's like I'm all in on this thing and I'm not going to stop until I've got somebody that's going to like actually move the needle for me. The best and then I'll come back and circle to like, okay, so when do you know when you actually should give up? But the last portion is this. When you look at the volume that YouTubers, the amount of time that they take planning the number of videos and the number of ideas that they kill, but most importantly, the number of YouTube thumbnails that they create. Kevin King: Are you looking to quickly boost new Amazon product launches or scale up existing listings to reach first-page positioning? The influencer platform Stack Influence can help. That's right. Stack Influence pushes high-volume external traffic sales straight to Amazon listings using micro-influencers that you only have to pay with your products. They've helped up-and-coming brands like Magic Spoon compete with Cheerios for top category positioning while also helping Fortune 500 brands like Unilever launch their new products. Right now is one of the best times to get started with Stack Influence. You can sign up at stackinfluence.com or click the link in this video down in the description or notes below and mention Misfits, that's M-I-S-F-I-T-S, to get 10% off your first campaign. stackinfluence.com. Josh Hadley: Before they even publish the video, they will test thousands of pieces of thumbnails. Like, Mr. Beast will test a thousand different pieces of thumbnails to see which one will work before he'll actually, like, release that video, right? And it performs well. Like, that's the level of scale. I think, like, people just dismiss that. They think that Mr. Beast Shoots a video on his phone and posts it and people just love him and they just flock to him. It's like, you don't understand the amount of volume and time that that guy has put into every video. Most people think they're like, oh, for a one hour video, what? I spent three hours, maybe some light editing. It's like, no. Try a hundred hours that got Edited down to an hour. So to circle back to like, so at what point do you give up? I feel like for me, anything that we've done, like you heard my earlier story, like I invested two and a half years into something and I didn't give up, Kevin. I think you keep going until you have a better alternative. So my alternative to TikTok last year was like, I knew it was this. It's either going to be retail for our business or it's going to be TikTok shop that helps us break out. Unknown Speaker: Two thumbs up. Josh Hadley: There's the balloon. Those of you listening to this podcast now got to go check out the YouTube video. Unknown Speaker: That was hilarious. Josh Hadley: It's a celebration. But I knew what my alternative was, Kevin, right? That it was like, okay, if this doesn't work, then this is my alternative. But I also know that going into retail is not going to be easy. And so it's still on my plate. It's still it's still on my roadmap of something that we will do, but like I'm going to go all in. And I want thousands of hours invested into this thing before I'm going to say like, it doesn't work for me. So I don't know, Kevin. I don't think it's like a hard and fast rule of like, it's not a numbers. It's not like a defined X amount of revenue. It's not a number of X amount of hours that I've invested into it. I would just say this. If you're gonna go into something, you have to say like, I went all in. Because if you said, like, I gave it a C plus effort, well, of course it didn't work. But it may have worked if you went all in and gave it an A plus effort. And so, like, I think that that's where most entrepreneurs go wrong is they try to dip their toes into every little water or every idea that comes their way, but nothing ever gets their best. They're not all in on one thing. Kevin King: I think, yeah, a lot of them are looking for that easy button, like you said. Exactly. You've spent years developing your brand. We understand what happened back during COVID. But a lot of entrepreneurs, when they're moving forward, they see good years of growth. But then they have that bad year. And I'm kind of curious, you're like, we've talked for years. What happened last year and then all of a sudden now you're back? I'm just curious. Why did you have such a bad year? He's back because he listened to a podcast on the drive home. Remember, Norm, the value of listening to podcasts that he said in the beginning. Marketingmisfits.co. Josh Hadley: It's true. It's true. And again, I'll always give credit where credit's due. Like I say every time I speak, I'm a man of faith and I do not dismiss that it was a stroke of inspiration and that the Lord answered my prayer, right? Gave me the stroke of inspiration, enlightened my mind to pursue the route that we pursued. But Norm, to answer your question which was, why was last year such a bad year? Here's where we went wrong, okay? And this is a very important lesson. We went wrong because our number one growth lever has always been launching new products. Okay, always launching new products. Here's where we kind of started to go wrong. Our manufacturer, we've always sourced our products in the U.S. and we started to really hit like, we started to cap out the number of products that we could produce here in the U.S. at an affordable rate and I was not willing to confront the boss. Here's the boss that I needed to confront. I needed to be able to source products elsewhere, outside of the U.S. And I was unwilling to confront that boss because logistics sounded challenging. I'm not interested in that. I also don't want to fly 16, 17, 18 hours to go tour different factories and things like that. I was content with the way things were. But guess what happened? My product pipeline started to dry up. And I knew this and I told my wife like, I know like, and I said this back in 2023, Man, if only we could get better products. If we actually had somebody sourcing something from Asia for us, we could be a totally different brand, but I didn't do it. And so it finally caught up to us when we launched a couple different products that were manufactured here in the US at like $6 a unit, when you could go manufacture that same product for maybe 50 cents overseas. And that product didn't go over very well. And we dropped six figures into that product launch and it just sucked up all the cash and had no return on it. And I was like, crap. So that's when our back was up against the wall. TikTok was that kind of stroke of genius for us. But at the same token, I took one of our best team members on our team and I said, your job is to go and source products from an Asian manufacturer. We have to figure this out. And so that started at that time. And so yes, we have, we started sourcing products overseas. So it's a combination of both things working for us. A, we've got, we have been able to increase like just brand awareness for our products, right? That's the reason why a good portion of our sales, like we're up 75% year over year is that brand awareness. But the second component is like, great. Now we're sourcing products that we could never have sourced before. And so we're back in the game. I'm launching products. I can compete in all of these other areas that I could see in the past, but I was not willing to confront that boss. And so Norm, like I had like my back was up against the wall. And so I had to do the hard things last year. Like I literally had to do all the hard things I did not want to previously do because I was I was just content. With the status quo and it was those ideas. So every year in business, that's why I say like you unlock levels even every year as a business owner. And for me that unlock was like beating the boss of just sourcing products overseas. Sounds stupid because anybody in the Amazon game, they're like, that's 101 bro, like come on. But for me it was like, I don't want to have to deal with this. US manufacturing was super easy for me. So that's the answer. Kevin King: Now you know Norm that Josh plays hockey, right? I heard. Josh Hadley: You play hockey though, Norm, right? Kevin King: Because you're in the Midnight League or something, right? You go at midnight and skate around the Galleria or something. Yeah, it's called the Fossil League. It's very popular up here in Canada. Josh Hadley: I play again and I make sure that I'm in that 35 plus year league so that I can play against people like Norm that have their... Norm, that is a very good hockey playoff beard. Kevin King: Yeah, I started it, you know, just last week when the playoffs started. Josh Hadley: For some reason, I don't feel like I've ever seen you clean-shaven. Kevin King: He's trying to be the Buffalo Bill in American football, the Buffalo Bill's mascot, you know, with the big— I get it. I put the horns on and nobody can tell what it is. It's going to be good when they go to the Super Bowl. Josh Hadley: Yeah, that's how I release my frustration and pent-up stress. I get to go shake it all out at midnight on this Friday night at the ice rink. Kevin King: Playing hockey, so just finding something. I used to play in the men's league as well, 35 plus. I played industrial league after, like when I was in my 20s, but that's freaking rough. You know, it's really tough hockey back then anyways. And it's being able to go out there, rub shoulders with other people. And most of the people that I played hockey with, We're senior vice presidents of this company, vice president over here. We were able to launch and maintain some Fortune 500 connections because of that, but it wasn't so much the hockey and, you know, putting somebody into the boards. It was afterwards, cracking a beer, you know, this is back in the day when you could do this, in the dressing room, having a drink, going out in the parking lot, bringing out the wings and actually creating that bond. And it's so important, like you just said it, you know, release that stress and you're able to go home and start the next day. Even though it's midnight and you've just had two pounds of wings. He comes back after the hockey and I get an email from him at 1.30 in the morning. I know if I message him at 4 there's gonna be no answer. I'm surprised he's doing this podcast in the middle of the afternoon. Can we do it at 12.30? Higher likelihood. Speaking of that, how do you balance faith, family and business? Josh Hadley: Yeah, I don't think there's any balance whatsoever. I think everything always shifts from one pendulum to another, but as I did mention, I'm very regimented with my time. I was talking to my wife about this yesterday. I look at all my friends in the corporate world because I worked at American Airlines The amount of just wasted time that is in corporate America is like beyond mind-blowing. But like they're texting about different like plays that we should execute at baseball or basketball throughout the day. But like my phone's on silent, right? And I'm just like, I don't get like why my phone's blowing up. How do people have this time to chat with people? So like the way it works for me is this. Every morning I'm up at 7 a.m. doing a workout until I go take my kids to school at 8 15 a.m. I get back home and at 9 a.m. is my kind of devotional scripture study meditation time prayer and then at 10 a.m. I've either will start like so my days are scheduled as such. Mondays are our meeting days and then Wednesdays are meeting days. Fridays like in the late afternoon will kind of be like a catch-all so like yours happened to be on a Friday so it ended up working out but like Mondays and Tuesdays are my meeting days and I stack my calendar. It's backloaded which means this. If I have to be out the door at five o'clock to go coach my kids baseball softball team, My last meeting will start at 4.30 or whatever. And then every meeting that needs to be stacked on top of that just goes backwards, right, till it gets to the front of the day, which starts at 10 a.m. So Mondays and Wednesdays, I backload my days until, like, to be honest with you, like, most Mondays and Wednesdays are like, I am on back-to-back calls. Like, literally, I don't even have enough time for lunch. So that's Mondays and Wednesdays. And then Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays, Are going to be my days where I actually get deep focused work done. And this is where I'm actually able to move mountains where I can like sit down and think about like a complex like hiring funnel or a TikTok creator outreach or the next product that we're going to launch on Amazon. I need that deep focus time that where like there's no distractions like the phone is on silent. And I'm not looking at email. Like email is like the stepchild. Email is something that I don't get to until 9 or 10 o'clock at night after the kids have gone to bed. And then as Kevin mentioned, like I'm often not going to bed until like 1 or 2 in the morning every day. And that's just because like I'm playing catch up at the end of each day because the emails are the least The least important thing in the business, the most important thing is me being able to focus on the key priorities, the three big rocks that we have in the business. And that requires my deep focus time. So I could ramble on forever, but I think it's just prioritizing all of that. And for me, I write down my goals every day. And one of my big goals is like, I will never sacrifice time with my family. And my kids for work, especially at this point, um, figuratively, like my, my 25 year old self would be so envious of the life that I'm living now. And so I need to be grateful for that. Although I have bigger aspirations, I'm also very grateful for like how far I've come. And so if I, if I would be envious of the life I'm living now, I could work more. There's always more things that can be done in work. But here's what I can never get back. I can never get back the time to be able to coach my son's 9U baseball team. I can never get the time back to watch my daughter compete in the state gymnastics competition. I can never get back that time to go to the tea party at my daughter's school for the toddlers, right? And so it's being able to recognize there are certain things that only happen at a very brief moment in time in life and being able to say like, look, these are the big rocks that I'm going to fill my jar with. And honestly, the work is going to be the sand that just needs to fill in the rest of the cracks. And then when I'm just too tired to work, Which is often that 1.30 a.m. That's when I'm done for the day because I'm too tired to work. So for me, it is faith, family. Those are the two top priorities of the day. And then, you know, work sits in between all of that. But it's always a juggle and it always ebbs and flows and no day is perfect by any means. But I try to keep that as like my prioritization. Kevin King: Hey, Kevin King and Norm Farrar here. If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits, thanks for listening this far. Continue listening. We've got some more valuable stuff coming up. Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify, make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of The Marketing Misfits. Have you subscribed yet, Norm? Well, this is an old guy alert. Should I subscribe to my own podcast? Yeah, but what if you forget to show up one time and it's just me on here? You're not gonna know what I say. I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair too. You can go back and forth with one another. Unknown Speaker: Yikes! Kevin King: But that being said, don't forget to subscribe, share it. Oh, and if you really like this content, somewhere up there, there's a banner. Click on it and you'll go to another episode of The Marketing Misfits. Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm. What's the ultimate dream on that before we wrap up? Is it to build this to nine figures and then exit and then move your family to life on a beach or with a hockey rink nearby and a gymnastics arena? What's the ultimate end goal? Josh Hadley: Yeah. To be honest, here's my ultimate end goal. I think achieving nine figures adds the credibility to who I am and what I can build as a businessman. I want to become the Alex Ramosi of the e-commerce industry. That people know, like, this guy can move mountains. But specific, Alex Ramosi's very broad business-based topics. Love it. Love it. Absolutely love it. But I want to be that guy in the e-com space specifically. And it's not necessarily to go retire or to exit and to have this big payday. I mean, one day that would be great. And when that happens, my time will then be devoted exclusively to just giving back. Giving back to help other business owners succeed. Because I am a culmination of giants that were before me. I came from a middle income home. Great parents. But neither of them were entrepreneurs. I was fortunate enough because I worked my freaking butt off in college that I paid my way through college through gaining scholarships. And those scholarships came from the man I'm talking about, Pierre Lassonde, who was an extremely wealthy diamond miner. And he gave back. And then he would go teach those entrepreneurs. So to me, I don't see myself ever retiring. I see myself being able to continue to teach, inspire, and educate the next generation of entrepreneurs to make a difference in the world. That is one thing I know is that entrepreneurs can be and should be the biggest difference makers that can change the world. Kevin King: Perfect way to end the podcast, sir. I got a question for you. This is a easy one. At the end of every podcast, we ask our misfits if they know a misfit. Josh Hadley: I do know. I know lots of misfits. That's why I'm on this. Okay. Had this guy on my podcast. Super interesting guy. He is the author of the book Marketing for Supervillains. Jesse James Robluski. You know him? Kevin King: No. No. Josh Hadley: Okay. You should have him on the show. Kevin King: All right. Well, we look forward to that intro. And sir, thank you for being on the show today. It was awesome. Josh Hadley: Hey, always a pleasure. Thank you. You guys are entertaining. Love what you guys are doing. Keep it up. Kevin King: If people want to find you or reach out, is e-com Breakthrough on all the podcast platforms, YouTube and stuff or if they want you on LinkedIn or what's the best way if someone wants to connect with you? Josh Hadley: Yeah, if you want to connect with me, Josh at ecomBreakthrough.com. That's e-com with two M's and then follow me on YouTube, any podcast platform. That's where I share all the good stuff. Kevin King: All right, Josh. Well, I'm going to do my job. I'm going to remove you, but don't go away. We'll be right back. So see, Kev, here's the button. No Coke Zero button or sticker, nothing. I got it right there. Oh, wow. Wow, Norm. Norm, you've grown up and it's like training a dog. Oops, I didn't get it right. It's like training a dog, you know, just enough repetitions and you finally get it. Yeah, that's right. Just don't pee in the house, please. I won't pee in your house, but I'll eat some of your ice cream. Yeah, you'll do that. Josh is really good and I think he's on a mission there, not only business-wise but personally. I love the fact that he's going to give back. I've talked a couple of times about my little My little, little bont to St. Bart's to actually get my mind clear and we talked in one of the other episodes how I have some chapters in my life and I'm in chapter 8 right now and that's going to be, I'll tell you about that when we meet personally and I think you'll like it. But chapter 9 is another one, but chapter 10, the final, is I want to do exactly what Josh just says. I don't think I'll ever completely retire and just go sit on a beach and watch Oprah all day. I'll actually be giving back and I want to actually give back and help people in that same way. And I think all entrepreneurs should actually, I think that's one of the best things you can do when you're successful is not go out and just treat yourself and buy a lot of fancy stuff, but make a difference in the world. And the way you make a difference in the world is by helping other people and giving them that lifting hand or that little advice. And that's to me, it just happened at this event I was just at in Fort Lauderdale yesterday. I was walking by to get a Coke Zero from the little tienda place and there's a couple of girls sitting there that recognized me from this Rainmakers group. That's another like Amazon group and I didn't know who they were but they knew me because I'd been on there a few years ago and they stopped me and they We just started talking and she asked, one of them asked a question about, she works for this company and she asked a question and I took about five minutes and gave her a bunch of free advice. And at the end of that, you know, gave her some ideas. At the end of that, she said, this just made the entire, me coming to this event entirely worth it. And to me, that's what, when you're at the level of success or notoriety or That you and I and Josh and others are, that I think that's an important thing that a lot of people don't think about or don't give back. And you don't want people taking advantage of you. But to help someone out like that, it's very rewarding. Yeah, I agree 100%. Okay, sir. If you want to learn some more stuff that's rewarding and really good, you can check out themarketingmisfits.co. I think I got that right now. You know, you bugged me about the bloody remove button here. It's .co. It's .co, not .com. So check out the site. There's some information. You might see me and Norm smoking a cigar there or something. Who knows what you might see. But you can find all the links to everything that we do, including the CMS trip that's coming up. It looks like in November. We'll have more information on that coming soon, as well as look for at some point mid to late summer, we should have a newsletter for Marketing Misfits as well. So you'll be able to subscribe to that. And a lot of more cool episodes. Every Tuesday, a brand new episode comes out. So if you like this one with Josh, feel free to share it. Send that on to other people or check out the channel and listen to some of the other ones. We've got a lot of really good ones. And don't forget, don't forget the new YouTube channel. Unknown Speaker: We've got two new channels. Kevin King: And so what we're doing, we've got long form on one and then we've got All the nuggets on the other, all the short form on the other. So check it out. That one is called Marketing Misfits Clips. Josh Hadley: Awesome. Kevin King: So check that out and then we'll see you again, you ladies and gentlemen, again next week, next Tuesday. Ciao. See you.