The Hero Image Advantage: Amazon’s Hidden Profit Driver – Episode 56 of the Agency Operators Podcast

The Hero Image Advantage: Amazon’s Hidden Profit Driver – Episode 56 of the Agency Operators Podcast Speaker 1: Welcome, everybody, to the Agency Operators Podcast. Today I'm joined by John Aspinall of Aspie. How are you doing, John? Speaker 2: I'm tired. I'm tired and it's not even summer break yet with these kids that I love oh so much. But no, another Tuesday in the life of e-com where something's always on fire and you don't have enough water. So that's fun. Speaker 1: Are we having fire or are we having smoke? Which one do you prefer? Speaker 2: I prefer fire than smoke because smoke, I don't know what's going on. Where is it coming from? I don't like the unknown. I'd rather know, okay, my whole entire body is on fire. At least I can deal with it right now and let me put some water on it. I prefer the known even as extreme as it may be versus the question of the unknown. I don't like that. I don't like not knowing things. Speaker 1: I agree and I think that the not knowing things in many cases is so much more painful than the circumstance that we're actually afraid of in the first place. So it's funny how that works. Speaker 2: Just shoot me straight. Just tell me exactly what's the problem. I always like to ask going into any situation, and I don't consider this pessimistic. I consider it realistic. I don't go into things like, what's the best possible outcome? I immediately go to, what's the worst thing that can happen here? Oh, that? Well, that's not that bad. So it's only up from here. So that's, again, not pessimistic, just realistic. Speaker 1: Yeah, just set low expectations so you're always in surprise. You're always pleasantly surprised by everything. I agree. We put that on ourselves as founders, whether you're an agency or a brand or whatever. When you go into business, when you start working with other people, when you put money into something or time into some building something, and especially when you start taking responsibility on yourself, to say, all right, I'm going to provide the service or I'm going to do this thing. And, you know, I'm going to pay these people. Always something breaks. It's like inevitable, right? You're just kind of waiting around for that thing to break. And when it doesn't, we're almost like, oh, well, this is going to find impending doom. Speaker 2: I mean, I don't, I'm not, I'm not going to get into the specifics, but we were just talking about something right before we hit record and hopped on here where something so simple just went sideways from a simple link. And, um, Good thing that was nipped in the bud, I will say that. Speaker 1: Yeah, we had a fire this week. Client sent the invoice to the wrong place. So we're like sitting in like, Hey, the check didn't come through this month. And it's like, oops, sent it to Amazon advertising, not AMC optimized. Speaker 2: And it's like, Oh, Oh, see if they're going to pay it. Speaker 1: So we shall find out. Speaker 2: I mean, you know, that's a problem, but they sent payment there or you sent the invoice there? Speaker 1: No, they sent the payment. Yeah. So, you know, we didn't get paid and Amazon got paid. It should be the other way around. Speaker 2: All right. Amazon gets paid enough. Speaker 1: They get paid enough. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Anyhow, John, I'm really happy to have you on today. I know that very recently you started Aspie. Prior to that, you were working for, I think when we first spoke, you were working for my Amazon guy and then PickFu. I know you're still doing some work for PickFu as well. So, I mean, prior to Mag, I'm sure that you had a lot of other things that you did in the Amazon space. So, quite an interesting sequence of events that have unfolded to get you to Aspie. I'm really curious about that. Could you speak a little to your experience and kind of how you ended up where you are? Speaker 2: Yeah, so do you want like going backwards or going forwards? Because sometimes going backwards is a little bit funnier. So like I'm still at BigFu as a brand evangelist and also running Aspie, which is a merchandising creative consulting agency for Amazon and e-com. Prior to both of these, was at my Amazon guy for a handful of years. Prior to that, I was at Canopy Management. Prior to that, I was a New York City corrections officer on Rikers Island, which is like, what? Like, how do you go from corrections officer to working at a, you know, an Amazon Ecom agency? The funny thing is, is my world before corrections, because I was only there for about four years, because I couldn't take it. Came for me calm. So I think my very first job out of college was working for three Russian guys over a deli here in Staten Island that did automotive restyling parts. Now it's car ID calm. It's a monster, you know, website that does, you know, industry leading, you know, automotive resale and restyling stuff like that. So, but back then it was just a couple guys and, you know, slinging wood dash kits, the 3M sticky dash kits that go on your car. So that's where I really got my like taste of like, it wasn't so much Amazon at that point. It was mostly eBay and DTC on the website. Like that was, this is back in, 2006, 2007, like Amazon wasn't like the hard hitter it was like today, right? So from there, went to go work in more automotive, went to go work with a manufacturer, then went to go work at another.com. And then I was like, hey, I got to get out of this. I don't want to do this anymore. So then I went to go work at a cell phone accessory resale company out of the back of a T-Mobile store in Tribeca on Church Street in New York City. And I said, OK, well, let's see how this goes. And that's where I learned Amazon. That's where I learned the ins and outs of Amazon on a resale perspective, because we were you want to talk about I'm pulling every stunt in the book. I mean, I could tell you stories about how the owner of the company would keep the storefront closed because it was a T-Mobile coded store just to be able to crank out the amount of Amazon business that they were doing. And then we had postal inspectors with their guns drawn coming in one day because our postage meter, because we were selling at that time, that was when the lightning cable came out for the iPhone and that was all the rage. And we were selling lightning cables individually for like a ton of money. And with the with the first class postage, you don't require a stamp on it. You don't require a tracking number on it if it's under a certain amount of weight. And those cables were like one ounce over, but we put them as one ounce under. But we were sending out like hundreds and hundreds of thousands, like a ton of cables to the point where they just came in guns drawn. They were like, let me see your postage meter. I was like, it's really not that serious. You can go. You can take anything you want from here. I didn't even know the post office had guns. Go ahead. That was around the time where, you know, if you had an Amazon Pillar Central account and then someone you knew logged in with their account, just by happenstance, the IP would conflict and your whole account would get shut down. It's not like that now, right? Because you've got permissions and all this other cool stuff. But I remember very clearly running down Broadway to electronic stores and getting Chromebooks and new computers, fresh computers, fresh hotspot routers, fresh bank accounts, the owner of the company getting his wife to open a bank. It's insanity. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. And then from there, I went to go... I was already in cell phones. I already knew stuff. So I went to go work at Iati, which is like a number one on Amazon selling smartphone car mount. I don't know where they're going to be now because everyone keeps their phone in their pocket with like car play and stuff like that. I don't know what they're doing now, but back then it was the number one best selling car mount. And I got a little bit of a taste of manufacturing, not reselling, but manufacturing and seeing how it looks from like the vendor central side of things. And that process of, I really learned when you have a vendor account and a seller central account, you can play the system. So what we would do is any new product would go on Seller Central and when they sunset it, they kicked it over to Vendor Central because they didn't care at that point. I thought that was a really cool way of doing things and interesting. Like Amazon would ask them, the Vendor Central managers ask them, oh, that's a new product. Can we have it? And they were like, no. Right. They want to get the most juice they could out of it without having to give concessions and all that kind of stuff to Vendor Central. And then I went to go work in the daily deal space because a company that we sold to over there for daily deals because they bought car mounts for daily deals was like, hey, do you want to be a senior buyer over here for electronics and toys? I was like, yeah. So I went to go work there in Manhattan and I sat in a cushy desk. And a little cubicle and I remember very clearly my hours were just be just be in before 11 and make sure you don't leave until 3 o'clock. I was like, wait, what? Like, it's just you could do whatever you want. It was such a When you say what a time to be alive, I was a senior buyer for this kind of stuff. I sat at the desk. They gave me my first MacBook ever. I was like, this is mine? They're like, yeah, it's yours. You just do whatever. I would have all these people calling me, all guys in the New York City area wanting to pitch Beats headphones, lightning cables, this, that, so many huge brands wanting to get on the website. The website was nomorerack.com, but then they rebranded to Choxy. Hmm. Hmm. For me, right, we're talking like 2014, 2013. I mean, me making like a $15,000 a month with commission is insane for me, for that kind of thing. On top of my base pay, that's insane, right? It felt like I was like, it felt like boiler room, you know? And for me, it was like, okay, this is great. Something's, the other shoe's gonna drop soon. Something's up, right? And I remember they were saying, oh, we're in talks of Alibaba acquiring us. Now we'll hold off. We'll wait for more money. Oh, we're in talks of this one buying us. Oh, wait. And then it all came to a screeching halt because then they had to have a boardroom or what's it called? Board takeover. Right. And basically money was being mismanaged, whatever it was. I don't really know. But I remember very clearly coming into work one day and the legal head for the company was like, hey, everyone, sit down. We don't know if we can give you your check anymore. And today's your last last day on the job. And I was like, what? And they said, hey, just on your way out, just drop your computers off at the front desk and we'll try and get you whatever money we can for the companies out of business. I was like, if you think I'm giving you this computer, you're wild. I'm taking this and anything else that I see with me, but it was like it's such a high and then such a low, right? And at that point, I was like, I got to get into the city system. I got to get a city job. I want stability. So for a period of time, I then went to go work as an e-comm manager for Newton Baby, which is like a very expensive leading crib mattress for babies, you know, for cribs. At that time, I was still going through the corrections process and I remember very clearly that the owner, super nice guy, for Newton Baby, I told him, I was like, hey, I'm going to have to give my two weeks notice. He's like, why, why? Is something wrong? I'm like, no, I'm going to work as a corrections officer. He's like, you're going to go to jail? He's like, I'm like, yeah, it's a city job, a city benefits and stuff like that. And anyone that's listening or watching, it might not sound that way, but in New York City, if you're a sanitation worker, if you're a fireman, if you're a cop, if you're corrections, as long as you're on the job for more than five years, you're making over $100,000. What they don't tell you is that most folks don't make it that long. Because it's absolutely miserable being on Rikers Island. So I remember his face so clearly that was like, what did I do that you'd rather be in jail than work here? I'm like, it's not you. It's like I want the city job. I went to go to corrections. COVID hit. I was absolutely miserable. My boss at the daily deal site said, Hey, I'm over here now in the agency space. Do you want to come work from home and make money? I was like, sign me up. I'm out. Unknown Speaker: I'll go right now. Speaker 2: Just send me whatever I need. And then that's when I went to canopy. And yeah, the rest is history. Speaker 1: Very cool, man. Yeah, you and I come from a very similar origin. Because I also in New York City started selling cell phone accessories. So all that stuff about new computers, cross contaminating seller accounts and getting suspended and all that kind of stuff. I was in that era. Speaker 2: PTSD, I want to talk about. Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Yeah. 100%. Like, you know, then you'd like, you know, People would resell those notebooks on eBay after they're done with them and open up other accounts because it's like a lot of the guys wanted to rinse and repeat that business model, right? Just open more LLCs because it's limitless. You take the money, you reinvest it into more product lines and whatnot. Speaker 2: The funny thing with that was the storefront was a T-Mobile store, but it used to be an AT&T coded authorized store. So what happens is, I don't know if you remember the name of this company, it's called Tesco. And Tesco is like a distributor for OEM accessories for AT&T stores. So like Otterbox would go through Tesco for going into AT&T. So Otterbox would have specific colors of their Otterbox cases that was only for AT&T corporate stores, right? So we would, there would be no packaging because we weren't an AT&T store, but we found loopholes that you were able to order them if you manually typed in the SKU. So we would get these like lists from like all AT&T corporate stores of stuff we weren't supposed to buy and we were buying it. I remember very clearly it was like a purple and teal Otterbox defender case for an iPhone. We were selling it at one point for like $140 for one because nobody could get it because it was for the global corporate stores. I remember like a giant box and we're just pulling them out and they're all in bulk and we're just slinging them. Unknown Speaker: It was insane. Speaker 1: Yeah. It was a mad time on Amazon and that was pre-PPC days. In those days, you just put up a listing, honestly, if you're a reseller of like a really hot item and you have the best price. Speaker 2: Those were the days of like repricing was huge. Speaker 1: That was the only thing. You're the buy box, you get the sale. That's it. Speaker 2: And people would do sneaky stuff. People would have repricers and they wouldn't know how to properly do them because certain people wouldn't put the floor properly on the repricer. So what they would do is at nighttime, they would drop their price and test and see how low yours would go. And if you didn't have the floor, it would just keep on going down and then they would just buy your inventory at like lower, less than their cost. And you'd wake up and be like, I made all these sales and you're selling them at a loss. But you knew when you didn't have the buy box back then and there, right? You knew that if you got one on. If someone got one over on you, if you were doing 2,000, 3,000 orders of OtterBox a day, and then you came in on a Tuesday and you have seven orders, you don't have to check. I know I don't have to buy a box on this, right? Yeah. Speaker 1: So after being a reseller, we eventually started just private labeling. And that was the real goldmine because there's no more buy box competition. You own the buy box, nobody else. Then, of course, other people want to hop on your listing. You have to fight everybody off. But private labeling back then was like a Eureka thing. This is pre Alibaba going public. Now private label is like. Old news, like you're competing with China at this point, they have the best price, what's the point? So, game has changed. Speaker 2: Yeah, like, I still think private label, I don't think private label is dead, I think commoditized items are dead. I think the easy way of getting, oh, I want to sell a soup ladle, or I want to sell a can opener, or I want to sell scissors, or I want to sell Bluetooth headphones, like, those days are long gone, right? Unless you're able to develop something, That's better. Yeah, you're showing why it's better whether it's materials or quality or whatever it is. But I'm still a big fan of like need item versus want item. I think anyone that goes into selling on Amazon or private label, if it's the kind of item that if my paycheck didn't hit and I had to scrounge around my last couple bucks, do I need to buy that or do I want to buy that? And if it's a want to buy, that means I can wait until I get more money and I don't need to buy your product right now. That's why I'm always a big fan of need to buy. So what's like need to buy? Need to buy is like, baby wipes, you know, puppy pads for the floor for the dog. So, you know, beauty wellness stuff, those are things you can't You know, you think in your head, oh, beauty skincare product that you don't need that. That's a nice to have. No, people want to get in regiments. They need that all the time. When I say nice to have, it's like a tent for your backyard. I don't need that right now. I'm low on funds. That's a nice to have. That's not a need to have. Oh, wait, my toilet paper roll in my bathroom broke. Unknown Speaker: Well, I need that now. Speaker 2: Like, I'm not going to sit there and hold my toilet paper, you know? Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, I think that You have to have some type of innovation. Like, it's so easy right now with these AI tools to go and do some kind of scan on the reviews to find opportunity and then just try to develop that. I think too many people right now are still like in these days from maybe five years ago. I mean, this stuff moves fast where everybody was trying to sell you courses on how to sell on Amazon and they just said, yes, stick a label, you know, go on 99designs, pick a logo you like, slap it on some product that you can find and then just sell it. So yeah, that's long gone. I mean, you really have to think outside the box, you have to be creative. And it costs more money than ever to get ahead and to break into the market. So it's just like really pay to play more than ever. Speaker 2: And whereas where I tell people, I tell them, you know, my friends come up to me and they say, John, you work for Amazon, right? I hate that. I hate when people go, oh, you work for Amazon, so what's going on? I don't work for Amazon. I'm like, please, no. Everyone misconceived idea of like people in e-com selling on Amazon or helping people with Amazon, you work for Amazon. But they always come up to me and they say, I want to make money on Amazon too. What should I sell? You know everything. What should I sell? And I said, I don't know everything I should sell. I'm not a brand owner. I give brand owners that sell on Amazon a ton of credit because I don't want that stress. I've had enough stress in my life. I don't need the stress of having to put something out there, all my equity in something and if one person has to come under me for a dollar less than me, I'm screwed. I give brand owners on Amazon 2025 a lot of credit because I could not do it and I wouldn't want to do it. But I always tell people when they ask me what should I do, I say small, light and cheap. Those are your parameters for getting started on Amazon. There's a lot of gurus out there that say, no, go for high ticket items. Go for the $150 price point, the $100 price point. Go for this. That's cool if you're more seasoned, but if you're not, you don't know how to juggle long-term storage fees. You don't know how to juggle pricing. You don't know how to juggle PPC. You don't know how to juggle any of that kind of stuff, right? And then what about logistics and freight and all that kind of stuff? You're going to wait six to eight weeks. What if you go out of stock and your BSR tanks? What are you going to do? So that's why I tell people and I was talking to someone a couple months ago and they actually wound up launching it and they're doing well. Now they're not doing well like we think as well, like, you know, Mary Ruth's or someone like crushing it, but they're buying something for 30 cents and they're profiting $1.40 on every one. That's good, right? For someone's getting started on Amazon because they're selling, and I'm going to drop a little bit of a, you know, blurb and someone wants to steal it. Go ahead. Try, um, engraved prayer cards. That go inside your wallet because they're very, very thin. They're metal, but they're very, very thin metal. And they have like a prayer written on them for like firemen or police, whatever. And you just take that and you put it in your wallet. But guess what? You can get a box of a box this size and get like 400 inside of them and it gets aired over. You don't have to deal with ocean free, none of that kind of stuff. Right? So when you talk about tariffs, who really cares? Like it's this big and it doesn't cost you much of anything. So it's all relative to what it is. So when you're making, buying something for 20 or 30 cents and you're making a dollar 30 profit, like net, net, net, That's good numbers wise. Sure, the guy's not crushing it. He's not a millionaire, right? But that's baby steps, right? Because then that profit is going to go into something else. Maybe they're going to expand and maybe do things further. So also looking at it like I see so many China direct sellers doing things that the American brand should be doing. Case in point, skins. That go on your debit card or credit card to make it look like a funny meme or something like that like They cost literally four to five cents for a three-pack four to five cents because all it is a piece of vinyl that goes on your debit card to make it look like an American Express black card or to make it look like a funny Donald Trump meme or to make it look like the American flag and Do you understand how many forget about that box of four to five hundred for the metal cards themselves? But for the vinyls you can get like 5,000 And at four to five cents, so nobody wants to go to that realm of Amazon, right, when we're talking to agencies and stuff, because there's not enough meat on the bones to make it worthwhile. That's why I'm saying for someone getting started on Amazon, you can take a thousand bucks. You could take 500 bucks and procure inventory to learn, to learn to navigate through Seller Central, to learn the ups and downs, to learn that kind of, because at the end of the day, If you mess up, if you screw up, you're not screwing up with, you know, all these gurus want to talk about, you know, get the $150 high ticket item, Bluetooth, you know, all this kind of stuff. Bluetooth items, I historically call those boomerang items. There's a reason I call them boomerang items because You've heard what Bluetooth that doesn't come from JBL, Sony, Apple, what is that? The Bluetooth speaker, it all sounds the same. It doesn't sound natural. They never pair correctly and what happens is when someone gets the Bluetooth and they don't know how to pair it and it's not easy, like everyone's used to Apple. When I get my AirPods, I just open them up near my phone, it's connected. Amazing. Now, when you get the knockoff ones, you have to hold the button down until the blinking stops and then you have to go on your phone and type in 000. A lot of folks aren't going to do that. If they get frustrated, they're savvy to Amazon. They're just going to be like, no, I don't want to do it. Boom, send it back to you. That's why Bluetooth, anything Bluetooth, I would stay away from. Speaker 1: Yeah, also compliance. You have to have paperwork now from the FCC is regulating all this Bluetooth stuff coming from China. You have to provide Amazon compliance paperwork that says that you have the chip ID or something like that. Speaker 2: It's not worth it. Unless you're Nutribullet, unless you're like Cuisinart, like that's your business. The other thing too is everyone thinks that the baby category, oh, baby is booming. There's so much compliance now in the last couple of years around baby products, like bibs, baby bibs or pacifiers or chew things for babies. You have to have so much testing done over and over on it to not get suppressed, restricted, taken down, stuff like that. So the grass isn't always greener when you look and see someone crushing it. You don't know the underlying testing and constant testing and more testing and testing for people that don't know. It's free and expensive and it takes a long time and you have to do it annually or buy annually, whatever it is. I always look for something that is small, light and cheap. You're not putting it in your mouth like for chewing on purposes. The other good thing is you want to try and get subscribe and save. Right. So like consumables. But that's also very hard, too, because, you know, think of any consumable. You're not reinventing the wheel. Think of any consumable. It's like, what if I did a protein bar? There's a million of them. There's billion dollar companies doing them out there. What's going to make yours different? Right. A lot of times people fall in love, they romanticize about the product and they forget about the actual business. They're like, oh no, this is the perfect water. It's been filtered through the Appalachian Mountains and a deer kissed the side of it. You guys don't know. This is perfect. But no one cares. No one cares and no one wants it and they fall in love with the product and they forget the fact that they're there to sell and make money. Speaker 1: So, tell me about the hero image. So, I know that you're one of the top guys in our space when it comes to conversion rate for Amazon listings, specifically focusing on the first image and then maybe some of the second, third, fourth. But the hero, I know, that's like, that's gold, right? Because that's the main thing that everybody sees even before they click. So that thumbnail and everything the way that appears like when people are comparing listings like it's really front and center. So what would you say is the absolute best way to get the biggest squeeze for that hero image? Speaker 2: I think it's important to know what SERP you land in because you could be in a 1x SERP or a 5x SERP. So like if you're in electronics or electronic accessories, it's a 1x SERP. So you don't have five items across, you have one, one, one straight down. So when you're looking at the search engine result page for USB-C data cable, you're only seeing before you scroll two, maybe three listings versus if you're searching vitamin C gummies or supplements, you might see 10 because you might see two rows of five across. So I think it's super important to know where you land on the SERP and then seeing what it looks like. A lot of people, they design in a vacuum and they'll have graphic designers and they'll just have that one image in their face and they'd only zoom it out. They're looking very, very closely. Look, we're putting this perfect thing here. Cool. Zoom out 10 times. Can I read that? No, I can't. Then there's no point in putting it there. Right. So if it's not optimized for mobile, for readability, what's the point of putting it there? A lot of people will do what I say is put the box, put packaging behind the product. Like for example, if it's Mary Ruth does this, a lot of other brands do this, they'll have the bottle and they'll have the box behind it, the retail packaging behind it, and then we'll have the capsule or whatever it is next to it. So it's multi levels of transparency. I see what's in the bottle and I see what the bottle comes in, but that's also taking up more real estate. On the box, a lot of times people will just put Stephen King novels in size 7 font. You might as well put nothing. If I can't read it very clearly, then that's the whole goal. The whole goal is to see a good hero image I can buy that product from just that image. That's a good hero image. For a period of time, Amazon was testing in the supplement category, buy now from the SERP, which was wild. So basically, if you're on the search engine result page in supplements and you had add to cart, where it is right now, right next to it was buy now. That was your one shot. And they stopped doing that after like two months because I think people just like crying to Amazon like, please, please, please, I spent all this money on this product detail page in this a plus, can you at least give them a shot to see it? But in my head, it's like, you should have that option there. You should have by now right there next to add to cart, because the people who do mean hero images, well, should get rewarded with Not having to go to the PDP if they know that's exactly what they want. If you are selling great flavored melatonin gummies that have 500 milligrams of melatonin and XYZ and it's made in the US and I could see everything I need to see from that main hero image, I don't need to go to your product detail page. For what? So you can show me gummies raining down on top of someone smiling and then you're telling me more about you know specs that I don't care about. So I think a good main hero image You can shop directly from it. Now there are exceptions, right? Expensive items, high ticket electronics, things like amplifiers, right? You can't, you need to see the specs. You need to see is this mono, is this stereo, is this, what is the adapter? So there is exceptions to it, but I think for most things you should be able to shop from the main hero image. Now, once you click on the main hero image, click through rate is gone. Now you're talking about conversion rate. So once you get the click, that's over. The CTR wins and he goes in the corner somewhere and hangs out and now CVR stands up and he gets tagged in. So what's affecting your CVR? So there's a lot of things. People don't realize it. It's your image stack. It's all the images in your image stack. It's your, what a lot of people don't realize is sometimes if they have a parentage and a variation, that can be a conversion killer. Because if you have a very messy parentage where I've seen them before and they're like so cockamamie where it's like we have three different sizes but only one of them is available in this flavor and these two are only available in this configuration. Well then it's like I'm getting really confused and I don't want to buy this anymore, right? Like you're making me work as a customer and it's like that's the reason when I go to like Target or Walmart. I don't go to self-checkout. I don't work here. I'm coming here to spend my money. I don't want to scan stuff and check it out. No, you do it, right? That's part of the process. I'm just not one of those people. So I don't want to work. If someone makes me work hard to find the information that I want, I see it in myself as I'm doing it. I notice it when I'm shopping on Amazon. By the way, I'm on my computer probably 20 hours a day. I have never made one purchase on my computer on Amazon. I've never made one purchase on my computer in the last five years. Every single purchase that I make is directly on my phone. Do you know why? Speaker 1: Why? Speaker 2: It's like, oh, I need this. Got to have it. I need this. Got to have it. Right. It's I'm never just like I don't sit down at my desk and I'm like, I have a little like grocery list of like, OK, here's what I have to buy today. Right. I always buy as it's needed. So if we need more, you know, laundry pods, it's as I'm running out of them, we're doing laundry and I just go on my phone, order them. Right. So I know it never. The journey never makes it back to my computer because I have the brain of like a caffeinated squirrel. Like it's gonna be like, I'll forget about, you know, by the time I get to my computer and then I have to do work and stuff. So for me, and I think a lot of other shoppers, it's the convenience of it's in my hand. I'm just gonna, oop, I need that. I'm gonna order, order, order it. So now knowing that, everything we just talked about needs to be dialed in even further. Because if you think your main hero image looks good on desktop, Cool. How does it look on mobile? Is it not readable on mobile? And if it's not readable on mobile, fix it. So I always tell people optimize for mobile first. Cause what's the worst thing that could happen? Oh, it's too big on desktop. So what? So people could see it easily. That's fine. Always optimize for mobile, especially since a huge percentage or portion of sales is coming from mobile. But I did notice there were some statistics out there that said mobile has a lot of traffic. But desktop still has more purchases. I don't know where I saw that. But there was a weird concept, because who goes on their phone to just browse, and then it's like, I'll wait till I get back at my computer to buy it. It's weird. I don't know anyone that does that. Speaker 1: Well, I like that format, John. If somebody wanted a little bit of help doing some of this testing and kind of figuring out these configurations and maybe creating some of the content or getting advice on this, is that what you do? And if so, how can people find you? Speaker 2: Yeah. So at Aspie, I do creative merchandising and optimization consulting. So I work with a lot of big brands where they come to me and they have The agency are ready. Maybe they have the in-house graphic designer. And we're working with rock star teams that have stellar graphic designers, but they don't know merchandising. So not every really good graphic designer is a really good merchandiser. So they're taking the processes and they're executing really well with Adobe, with Photoshop, with this and that, but they don't understand Hey, you know, color psychology, you can't you can't put white text online green packaging and expect it to be visible. When you're looking at it like this, sure, it's visible, but we're not looking at it like that. So yeah, so GoAspy.com is my site. I'm on LinkedIn doing a lot of cool stuff for the next couple of weeks on LinkedIn with giveaways of lead generation for some AI stuff. So if you find me on LinkedIn, I'm doing a lot of cool stuff with that. And we also have AspyCon coming up on June 24th to 27th. So it's 40 plus speakers. Pretty much everyone, everybody knows 40 plus speakers talking only about creative assets, design, merchandising. So it's the first one of its kind. And it's only eight bucks for four days of 40 speakers. I mean, that's cheaper than salted caramel latte from Starbucks that everyone's drinking. Speaker 1: Wow, that's good value. Go check it out, everybody. All right, John, I appreciate the nugget of gold, nuggets of gold that you shared here today. Speaker 2: I thought you said negative gold. I said, excuse me. Speaker 1: Nuggets, good nuggets. Yeah, maybe even some diamonds in there too. So yeah, everybody go check it out and we'll catch you on the next one. Thanks again.