The Dark Truth About Amazon Supplements

Just doing the average white bottle is fine, but it's really the brands that create that brand image that are crushing it right now. Differentiation, sustainability, form factor, colors, all those things have to be different. There's a lot of manufacturing of supplements sold in the US, done in the US, or still some done overseas. The brand owner should be spending their time on building the brand, not worrying about and babysitting the manufacturer, which is what a ton of time goes into if they don't have the right partners. If somebody's going to launch something, what are they doing right now that's completely wrong when launching a supplement? You're watching Marketing Misfits with Norm Ferrar and Kevin King. Kevin King, are you ready? Uh, Norm, I'm born ready. Vamos, let's go. Uh, what's up everybody? How you doing, man? Welcome to another marketing misfits with uh your two misfits here. Uh, Mr. Norm Ferrar and Kevin King. Mr. Ferrar, h how be you? I'd be good. I'd be good, Kev. You be good. I'm happy. The weather is warming up. I get to go out with my cigars and have a, you know, a smoke now out on the balcony. See, I'm going to make you jealous. I'm having I'm having dinner tonight with some good friends of ours, with Rich, Isabella, uh, H, with Amy, with Mark. We're going to go to a steakhouse and like eat some steak. And we'll do a toast in honor of of the of the Ferrar. We'll say in toast in honor of the Ferrar 1, two, three, one be all, I'll all be king. something like that. You know what I what I really appreciate is invitations. But yeah. Well, you're welcome to fly. You're welcome to fly down. I'll send the jet. I'll send the Misfits Jet. Okay. Walk in the Misfits Jet. He'll pick you up. There's cigars and and Coke Zeros and Ginger Beers in the fridge in the jet. So, you're all good. And just make sure there's supplements. It's It's dog friendly. And there's there's supplements for people with bad hips and bad knees and uh and migraines and and everything else. You know what? Our guest today is like one of the kings in the supplement space. I think this guy has like done hundreds of millions of dollars in supplements, both his own brands and uh helping other people get into it. But you know what? It's kind of relevant that we're we're doing this just coincidentally. The last couple nights before I I go to sleep, I usually turn on the TV and I you know I I'm a late night person. I'm like 2:00 in the morning, 3:00 in the morning is my bedtime. And usually around 12, one o'clock, whenever I finish working, I'll actually go and watch an hour or two of TV. And I've been watching this documentary on Netflix about Tylenol. Uh, you know, I don't know if you remember, but back in like 1982 in the United States, Tylenol, um, there was a scare where seven people in the Chicago area died by taking extra strength Tylenol. And they were the the the theory was that some nutcase went into the stores and actually opened up Tylenol bottles and took the little capsules out and and put new capsules in there or unscrewed them or whatever and put cyanide in and put them back in and like three people in one family died. And then it became a big deal and then Johnson and Johnson was the company that made it was their number one sellers like $500 million a year back then which is in the billions today. and they freaked out and they basically denied anything. And then this this show goes through who is the potential killer. They found a couple different killers and they make this case that the case to this day is unsolved. Nobody knows. And it happened again like two years later, but there's this one guy that was a nutcase that did all this kind of stuff and they think he might be the killer. And then they're like, "No, Johnson actually did a bad m big cover up because it's a corporation and there's actually cyanide at Johnson and Johnson that got contaminated and someone inside did it." It's this whole fascinating thing. So it it it changed the whole industry where now we have all the bottles, you know, that have the the safety seals, the safety seals, like three different levels of safety seals that didn't exist back then. It comes in a box that's glued tight and then it goes into another thing that has a some sort of divider in there. A lot of times you got to use your nail or get something a pen jab it to get to get open and then on top of that it's sealed. So it got me thinking like our guest today is in supplements. Supple and it's going to be a question I'm going to ask him. Supplements are completely unregulated in the well not completely but highly unregulated in the United States. And I just saw a story uh it was in my newsletter about Amazon specifically where there's a lot of fake supplements on Amazon. And I'm I'm doing a routine now with a lot of supplements um over the summer where I'm taking some extra stuff to try to do some uh healthy healthy things. And makes me wonder like can I trust this stuff? You know, what am I putting in my mouth from some random company that I've never heard of? And uh it's going to be interesting to see uh his take on on some of this. Uh so I'm I'm excited for for our guests. Yeah. You know what some of the problems you might have, Kev, is when you open it uh with a chainsaw, it's those plastic particles that get in there. And when you take the supplement, you shouldn't be taking the I'm getting I I lost my grip. You know, my grip strength is down. So, I I just went to Dave Asper's thing last week and I got a little device to get my grip strength stronger because they say grip strength is an indicator of how long you're going to live. Uh so, I I'm like I'm trying I'm trying to fix this problem, Norm. Just give me a chance. Just give me a chance. Well, maybe our guest Adam will help you. Uh, let's see. Let's see if Let's see if he's got some uh Dr. No, he's not a doctor, but uh Mr. Adam has some advice. I don't think he's a doctor. Well, let's bring him on. And welcome, not Dr. Adam. Not a doctor. He plays one on TV. He plays one on YouTube. Right. How you doing, Adam? I'm good. I'm excited to be here. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. We've been talking about this for a while now. Uh we have we have uh glad to h glad to have you here. So for those that don't know who the heck you are, uh what what's your story? Who are you? Well, who are who are any of us, right? That's that's the question. But um in this reality, I am a full-time Amazon seller. I've been selling since 2013 like many of the viewers and listeners and you guys um have and been fortunate enough to have a lot of success in the supplement uh beauty and health space. And about two and a half years ago, I was extremely frustrated with the experiences I was having uh with manufacturers. And I actually went to the first person I ever bought a man a supplement from back in 2013, my business partner James, and he was out of the business. He had his own manufacturing facility. He said, "Hey man, listen, we there there is a need more now than ever uh for complete transparency and for uh you know a a company to come in and help founders, startups, uh existing brands navigate and simplify the Neutra Beauty and Pet Manufacturing space for a lot of the reasons that you just talked about, Kevin, right? like what am I putting in my body as a consumer and as a brand uh how do I navigate the process of finding the right manufacturers to work with that are going to deliver on what I think I'm putting in my in my product right because that's a big problem too and so over the last couple years founded turnkey health and beauty to do just that and it's been um it's been a lot of fun helping a lot of startups and existing brands scale their companies because on one on one hand you've got the manufacturing component which is making the product but then on the other side whereas my expertise comes in it's like how do I scale my brand uh what are the ways to be different in today's marketplace that isn't like everybody else and how to create differentiation and how to really use all the platforms available because there's so many uh to to start a new product and we're seeing more brands coming into the marketplace than ever before. I'm sure you guys are seeing it too. Yeah, there are there are some red flags on Amazon and this is this is perfect for the show because first of all, you've got to market your your you've got to be able to market and make sure that you address these red flags. But before we go anywhere, why don't we talk about some of these red flags so the listeners know what we're talking about? Yeah. I mean, first and foremost, well, it depends on which side you're talking about as a consumer or a brand owner. Um, but a lot of times the brand owners will try and uh, you know, they'll just do a basic Google search. You can do that and you're going to see hundreds of manufacturers come up, private label, which is just taking somebody else's product, putting your name on it, and selling it. And then you've got your custom formulations. But a lot of the times you'll you'll come across uh manufacturers who aren't overly established or you know they're not what are called you the things you want to look for are they NSF certified right are they FDA compliant and regulated do they have you know the CGMP certifications those are some of the things that are that are absolute musts today but a lot of brand owners don't know to ask or to verify or to look for. So you guys doing the manu? So you're you're you're actually a contract manufacturer. So you own the facilities. You own the whole whole line there. You're not like brokering out to somebody else like you guys have the the brick and the brick and mortar factory. Uh manufacturing. We're actually a hybrid. Uh we're a hybrid model. We do have our our own manufacturing facility in uh North Carol, excuse me, South Carolina where we do a lot of the capsule manufacturing. But then what was happening is we had so many other brands coming to us that were kind of outside of our scope of expertise but still needed help uh that we went out and we developed a nationwide network of manufacturers to do the gummies, the powders, the beauty products, the pet products. Um but what we've done is simplify that by building a proprietary software. Are you guys familiar with like lending tree by by by chance? Right. So the idea there is when banks compete, you win. Well, we took that same model and just put it into the supplement, beauty, and pet world. So for instance, if you wanted to create a product, you'd have to go out there and you'd have to try and find six or seven really good manufacturing partners to work with. And each one of them would be a very long process to develop a formulation with, right, and get pricing back. Our model is simple. You work with us, we get the we get the formulation dialed in, we put it into our proprietary software and then that goes out to bid. So within two weeks, you've got seven, eight, 10, 12 bids coming back, right? That we sift through. We identify the best two or three options based on the customer's criteria. And then we sit down and we have a call and we go through those options with them so they know they're getting the best price, best customer service, we just really simplify that process. And then once they want to move forward, we do the purchase order and then we introduce them uh to the manufacturer. But the best part is they don't pay any additional for that service because the commission that most of these manufacturers pay for an internal sales rep. They just redirect those commissions to us, but yet we oversee the entire process and we vet every manufacturer for them. So they know when they move forward, they're already working with the best. So this is more like you're acting as a liaison or a uh an a sourcing agent. Yeah, we're like an extension we're like an extension of these manufacturers in addition to our own facility because again the reason why I started the company is I was super frustrated with the lack of communication, poor customer service, missed deadlines, you know, the product not having in it what it's supposed to. So we figured well why not just eliminate all those headaches for a brand owner because us being marketers right on this call that's what we are amongst other things but us being marketers I know as a business owner you the brand owner should be spending their time on building the brand not worrying about and babysitting the manufacturer which is what a ton of time goes into if they don't have the right partners. Hey, Norm, you'll love this, man. I talked to a seller the other day doing 50K a month, but when I asked them what their actual profit was, they just kind of stared at me. Are you serious? That's kind of like driving blindfolded. Exactly, man. I told them you got to check out Sellerboard, this cool profit tool that's built just for Amazon sellers. It tracks everything like fees, PPC, refunds, promos, even changing cogs during using FIFO. Aha. But does it do FBM shipping costs, too? Sure does. That way, you can keep your quarter four chaos totally under control and know your numbers because not only does it do that, but it makes your PPC bids, it forecasts inventory, it sends review requests, and even helps you get reimbursements from Amazon. Now, that's like having a CFO in your back pocket. You know what? It's just $15 a month, but you got to go to sellerboard.commisfits.board.com/ sellerboard.com/misfits. And if you do that, they'll even throw in a free two-month trial. So, you want me to say go to sellerboard.com misfits and get your number straight before your accountant loses it? Exactly. All right. So, is a lot of manufacturing of supplements sold in the US, done in the US, or still some done overseas? I know a lot of the raw ingredients come from overseas, but can you walk me through the the that those two things of what's actually made here and where's where's the actual raw ingredients come from? Yeah, that's that's a great question. So, a lot of uh brands will, and this goes back to not knowing what you're putting into your body. I've done multiple quotes for companies recently where they were outsourcing their products uh from from China mainly, right? they were making it there, bringing in it, and selling it on Amazon. We started quoting the pricing of what they were paying versus what the raw ingredients are to bring in. Um, and what they were selling it on Amazon was what the product actually would cost with the right ingredients and the right packaging and everything. So, we tested the product and it turned out the product wasn't real. It wasn't what they were selling, okay? Sourcing it from China. Now, I'm not saying that's always the case. I'm just using a reference point to my most recent experience. And so, when we told the customer that, they were kind of shocked. Um, but never but we never heard from that that that customer again, right? Moving forward. So, it happens a lot. The way that we work and what I would always recommend is we source global ingredients mainly from India and from other countries. But as as those raw ingredients come in, they're always tested, right? So there there's like three levels of testing. So the raw ingredients come in, they're tested to make sure it is what it is, and a certificate of analysis is issued on the raws. Then the product goes into production and it all gets mixed together basing based on the blend. Again, it's tested once that's done. And then the final test done is is done when the product is completed. It's packaged. They grab a package, they open it up, and they test it again. So there's three layers of testing with all NSF, CMG, and FDA certified facilities in the US, or at least that should be done. So does that answer your question? Does that make sense? That's just one side, but what about the other side? As a consumer, if I'm buying something on Amazon, how do I know what I'm getting? Is there some I, you know, like with pH levels in water, uh, someone says this is pH level 7.0 you know, or above, you know, that core water. I can actually take a little iodine dropper, drop it in there, it'll change the color, and it's like a drug test and tells me this is uh yeah, this has the right amount or it doesn't. Is there something like that with supplements as a consumer where cuz I could be taking, you know, I'm not a big supplement person, but I could be taking whatever the big chromium and I'm like, this ain't doing nothing for my diabetes. Um, and I I I'm really not taking I'm taking a placebo or something. I'm taking something else and it's not chromium. I blame it on that. Is there a way for me to know or is there just a is it just a trust because that's marketing. Uh is it just a marketing trust of this company or the reviews or how can I protect myself as a consumer that I'm getting the real thing? Yeah, great question. So, ideally, you know, you're purchasing products from an estab from, you know, from a wellestablished brand um that you know kind of has nationwide reach. You would think that would be a a safe place to start, but even then it doesn't always uh end up being the case. You can ask the brand for certificate of analysis before you purchase a product. They they they need to be able to show that and prove that to you that you know they show they they you ask for it, they send it to you, you can see what's in it and then it's passed. Amazon for years has been the wild west. Recently, I would say over the past six months, Amazon is going through their entire catalog and they're beginning to require brands to send their product into a thirdparty testing facility. Okay, Euroins is the is one of the main testing facilities right now. So, for instance, a product will get flagged, that brand owner will have to send it into Europins. Euroins will test it based on label claims and what the supple supplement facts panel says. If it passes, Amazon gets that C certification and they keep the product on Amazon. If it fails, Amazon shuts down that listing maybe indefinitely or at least until the point where that man that that brand can prove that label claims are being met. And that's the only real way moving forward that that's going to really shake out and be effective. you seeing the number that are actually not making it back on. Is it a high percentage that are are not making that if they don't if they get blocked, you mean? Or if they don't pass? Yeah. Yeah. You can take corrective measures to get back on. There is a protocol that that is required in order to do it. So, you're not you're not dead in the water if it doesn't pass. Yeah. But I guess what I'm asking is how many people were faking it? Oh, I I I don't know. You don't know that number? Okay. That's that's that's you know, that would be Euro Fins. Um, you know, and it's not that necessarily everyone's faking it. There could be, you know, there's a lot of variables that go into a product not meeting label claims, but yeah, it's it's it's a high number. And so that's why what about counterfeits are a big problem too, right? on Amazon with co-ing co-mingling of uh USPS and co-mingling stock where the legitimate brand who meets the standards that you just set and has passed and then some other reseller comes on and is selling actually a counterfeit version. There's there's been a lot of media and press around that on Amazon as well. Yeah, I think maybe you can answer that better, but being having brand registration and and brand ownership ideally should should eliminate a lot of that or all of that. Yeah, it it can eliminate some, but it's still it's still pretty rampant. I had a story in my newsletter a couple weeks ago about it. Uh where it was is it's pretty pretty crazy about how much it's still the wild west even though Amazon is is clamping down on it. Um but that's why you got to go like you said, you got to go legit people or people that showing their reports on their listing or something or or you're asking for it. Um, it it is because I think there's a probably a lot of people that are probably taking stuff that's just not what they think. And I think I think that's a great area for someone for brand owners to win, right? I think in the past transparency and good marketing lingo was more than enough uh to build a brand. But if you're either new coming in or you want to gain market share, the more transparent you can be, the more you just put that COA right up on the page for for someone to be able to view and verify and build confidence, that's only going to help your brand moving forward. I brought some uh I brought some supplements back and I showed them to my wife and it was a it was a sleeping product and I thought it was pretty cool because of the buzzword that they used. I'm just going to make something up like uh uh keto sleepoids, right? And I took a look. Oh, I'm going to have all these keto sleepoids. This is really cool. And my wife looked at she she's a registered nurse and she looked at it and she goes, "Norm, all you did was you bought melatonin and you bought the there's no such thing." And I thought, "Oh, good for the marketing company for these bloody supplements." They they hooked me. And I think that's really important that a lot of these uh supplements that are out there, it's a it's a great marketing ploy is you make up a word and you put a combination of ingredients in. Um I don't know how popular it is, but it caught me. Yeah. Uh what's interesting nowadays because we get asked all the time like, well, if you were starting a brand today or I wanted to launch a product in the supplement beauty or pet space, how would I how would I do it right now? And my whole my whole thought process is is focusing on symptombased solutions. Whereas in the past you could launch an evergreen brand. And an evergreen brand in my mind would have been know your turmeric, your fish oils, just kind of things that people use every single day. And to your point, Norm, you can still launch those products and be extremely successful in in um in a competitive landscape by focusing on symptom based solutions using those ingredients or a combination of those ingredients and using chat GPT is a great way to kind of find uh angles. uh you know AI I know has been been a big thing Kevin you've been talking about a lot lately just leveraging that technology to to create formulations that win and focus on what people are really dealing with and solving those problems. You know you just talked about if you were going to launch something nowadays and that's a common question. Uh my question is if somebody's going to launch something, what are they doing right now that's completely wrong when launching a supplement? Well, I think the main thing I see too much is just generic um they don't have this. It's about the in my mind it's about the story, right? like it goes back to the basics of being a good marketer and you I'd love to hear your guys' feedback on what you're seeing, but telling that unique story and building an audience and a community around the brand. So, for example, if you were to launch a sleep product, I wouldn't launch anything with melatonin, right? When everyone's going one way, I'd go the other. So, what are some ingredients that are non-melatonin based that I could build build a hero ingredient around? build a a sleeping supplement around non-melatonin based that I could build a community and a solutionbased problem to. So if you are if you deal with this X symptom right and build a comm this I've created a product that solves that particular symptom and it doesn't have this other stuff in it and you don't want that other stuff in it because this this and this right now that's interesting that's different than everybody else is you know what they're selling now marketing around claims that's very difficult you know especially on on Amazon so and we can talk about this in general, but on Amazon they're they're very strict. How do you market a supplement and get around without getting around the claim? Like if you you claim anything, you could be suspended. Correct. I think there's a lot of common sense that I that would hopefully go into this process, but you're not claiming to cure something, right? um you're you're basically saying I I you know I suffered from this issue therefore I went ahead and created a product that has this and this and this to help myself and I know if it helps me it could probably help a lot of other people too and it's more restful sleep so you have to talk around the symptom you can talk about the symptom but you're not talking about curing that symptom per se you know it can say it supports this or it may help with that. So you have to be careful. And then part of the the process that we do with all our customers, you create a label, it goes through quality control. And there's checks and balances there that we can say you can say this, you can't say that. And so it's just really massaging the language to create the desired result, right? Connecting the dots in the consumer's mind without crossing the line. And you can do stuff like Abby is a good example. OBVI, I think is how they spell it. They have a fat burner. Uh but you can't say that. Like Norm said, you can't say this, you know, burned 20% of your fat or whatever it is. You can't make those claims on Amazon or or Tik Tok or a lot of other places. But what they do is they show images of a stick of butter on fire and their slogan is melts like butter. And so that that image in your mind and then there's the bottle of Odby uh right there, you know, sub subset into the picture. Um and instantly like, oh, melts like butter. The butter is the fat. Uh and you get the message and like I want that. That's a brilliant way of doing it. In fact, and and I just pulled something up here in my June 2nd uh newsletter uh uh for BDSM. I had something about supplements. Um I don't know if you guys saw it or not, but a whole story about breaking down what Mary Ruth and Barrier is doing right now. I don't know if I said that right. U but it's about the market sophistication. I think to answer part of Norm's question, some of what you're saying is like you can't say lose weight or boost your immune system or feel energized. And like Norm was saying, these these slogans are just like how do I make it different? And there's five levels of market sophistication. And the supplement market is pretty sophisticated in a lot of ways. You could add an ingredient or make a different claim. But there's the new market which you can just come in, you can basically say you just what it does, you know. Uh then there's the the loud markets level two. The level three market is a skeptical market. The level four market is a jaded market. And the level five market is the burned market. And depending on where you're at with what you're doing in ingredients or the way you're delivering it, gummies became a hot delivery mechanism a few years ago and now everybody started doing gummies and like you said, y'all weren't set up to do that. So you you you help people get set up with ver uh good vendors to do that. So that that's part of like a a level one market is like fall asleep faster. You can just say that and you're new and it works. A level two marketer would be just louder. Fall asleep in under 10 minutes. So then when it gets to a level three competition, it's like you have to explain how it works. So it's more like fall asleep faster with melatonin plus ltheanine um uh to regulate your circadian rhythm. Uh and then the jaded market is more like sleep patches deliver melatonin transdermally, no pills, no digestion lag. And then when it gets really burned out market and it's just so saturated with competition, you have to go why most melatonin doesn't doesn't work and what we do differently with our sleep patch after the doctor told me to ditch the pills. And then what an example I gave was Mary Roose has a new thing uh and they go into dissolving strips you know the delivery mechanism from tablets to capsules to to to uh uh gummies and to so now they have uh they have a mood and co cognition uh thing. It's got folate and saffron vegan uh B12 and few other things in it. And they say these are dissolving strips. All you got to do no swallowing pills, no taking a shot, no whatever. Just stick it under your tongue. And that's how they're different differentiating. And then Berriair, they're not selling on Amazon. Um they but they have a mechanism for uh uh their supplement and they're like tattoos. So they're saying instead of taking something in your mouth, just put a patch on your on your shoulder and leave the patch on and the the medicine seeps out into your skin and gets into your blood. And these patches don't look like these, you know, diabetic patches that are circles or whatever. They don't look like band-aids. They're little like tattoos. they look like a butterfly or they look like a a car or they look like something cute. So, especially for women that want this for for beauty stuff, it it looks like it's an accessory and it's so from the marketing point of view, that's brilliant marketing that these guys are doing and staying on the cutting edge. So, I just wanted to throw that out there. If you want to read this whole thing, well, hold it a second. I I think Adam is going to take those ideas. You're going to see them with the under the tongue thing. But I would really appreciate it, Adam, if you could do a tattoo for marketing misfits that had some supplement. It would be like fat ass burner or something like that. You know, that would that would be cool. That would be really cool. Bases on it. I think we'd have to order a lot of units. It's got a little bit of a it has a little bit of cigar texture to it, you know? Right. When you you start feeling I think it's a nicotine patch is what you're talking about. Exact. Exactly. No. So that's I think that's And are you doing this kind of stuff? I mean I know you're doing helping with formulations but um and are you are you helping like them come of the marketing and like find the factories that can make a I don't know butterfly patch and the machinery that can knock this stuff off in that way or is that is that like the next level up of uh manufacturing? I mean, what we we pride ourselves I mean, our whole our whole tagline or slogan is like you bring your ideas and we'll handle the rest. We're really good at helping brand owners think outside the box and and figure out how to do something that's a bit complicated and challenging. We can do the easy stuff, no problem. But if there's certain thing that you want or you need or you have an idea, we we we can figure it out. But it's like you got to have the budget and you got to have Yeah. Right. the wherewithal to be able to pull it off. We're not miracle workers either at the same time. But but we can definitely help. I haven't done um the strips yet. I've seen them. I've seen the patches. I've seen all that. We just haven't had any requests for that. My only challenge with those delivery methods is that you're very limited on how much of the actual ingredients you can put into those delivery methods. It's very very small. That may be I agree with you that could be but you're if you're first to market to deliver that you can gain market share and then cross that across all your other supplements and stuff that are more the traditional or the gummies or the capsules or whatever. Absolutely. So yeah, I I think they're they're amazing. Um they're unique and and definitely will grow in popularity for sure. Hey, what's up everybody? Kevin and Norm here with a quick word from one of our sponsors, 8 fig. Let me tell you about a platform that's changing the game for Amazon sellers. That's right, it's called 8FIG. On average, sellers working with 8ig grow up to 400% in less than a year. 8FIG offers both funding and free tools for e-commerce growth and cash flow management. And here's how it works. 8FIG provides flexible data-driven funding tailored to your exact needs. You know, they could fund anywhere from up to $50,000 all the way up to 10 million. 8FIG gives you free tools to forecast demand, manage inventory, and analyze cash flow. Visit 8fig.co. That's 8fig.co co to learn more or check the link in the show notes below. Just mention marketing misfits and get 25% off your cost. That's 8fig.co. 8fig.co. See you on the other side. Are you familiar with what gobi's doing right now to promote their supplements? Mhm. You are? Yeah. With their affiliate program and everything? Yeah, they're massive. I had another story about that actually today uh in in the newsletter. I did read it by the way. I did read it. You did? Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, I was all over it. So, for uh you might go back on if you missed the June 2nd one that's about the dissolving strips. You might go back and look at that one. Okay. If you if you if you missed that. Um but yeah, Go Do you know what they're doing, Norm? Are you familiar? I read it in the newsletter today. All right. So, those of you listening from a marketing point of view, since this is a marketing show, um they're doing some brilliant stuff with on the creator side where a lot of the sellers that sell supplements, I mean supplements, correct me if I'm wrong, Adam, they typically have a pretty high margin. Uh I a lot of time I mean it depends on the ingredients but there's typically that's one things that draws a lot of people because they're small they're lightweight they're easier to ship and generally and there's usually a pretty decent margin and then the lifetime value on them is is if someone stays on can be pretty high so you can spend more money to get a customer. Exactly. Yeah. I mean if you can create if that's why I got into supplements from the be the very beginning. I just I always wanted to build a portfolio of repeat buyers, right? And that's the beauty of what the supplement beauty and pet space does. Yeah. And so what GOI is doing is they're they're just going balls to the wall on TikTok especially. And and for those who don't know, they're they're doing the a promotion during the month of June is they did one of these last fall, too. But the top prize is a million dollars cash. If you sell a million dollars worth of their supplements, they call it GMBB, gross merchandise value, uh, on Tik Tok shop, they will pay you a million dollars. So, they're basically giving you every dime they take, but they know the halo effect of that on Amazon is going to be big. Um, and they know that the the lifetime value of these guys are going to stay for x number of months. So, they're going to get that money back down the road. And then they're doing all kinds of crazy stuff below that where you can win win win a BMW or a condo in Miami or you know it goes down to the basic just sell a little bit and you get some energy drinks or something. But what that's done is they're getting thousands and thousands of affiliates. It's and affiliates are recruiting other affiliates. They're seeing it and and they're competing and it's a brilliant marketing thing if you have the budget uh and the the balls to do that. Um which they do. And so that that brings me back to like how competitive is it? I mean, you selling supplements, it's super competitive. I think they say the pet supplement space is one of the most competitive spaces on all of Amazon where cost per cost per click is like through the roof. What are you seeing on on on that? In regards to what just how competitive the competitiveness of of supplements on marketplaces like Amazon. Uh yeah, I mean it's it's insane. It's it's more competitive now than it ever has been, right? For a lot of different reasons. It's harder to get reviews. I feel like there's a ton of brands that have already kind of been entrenched into the space. But if you're going to get started, you just you just gave the blueprint on how to do it. And that is you got to have a two-pronged approach. And that is your Tik Tok shop and or social. And you got to have your Amazon page built out and you've got to drive sales through Tik Tok uh and then have that halo effect onto Amazon and you need to be running both simultaneously, but that requires uh you know capital and and time. And so I feel like the private label seller is going to have a harder time. Not that it's impossible. That comes back down to story and how you position. But this this is I'm curious what you guys think. But I just feel like the private label seller that that 500 unit the thousand unit order which which we get a lot of requests for and I just say listen unless you've got some real power to stay in the game it's hard it's getting harder to compete just trying to make it on Amazon alone you know you've got to have multiple approaches to do it. I think if I was going into it I would go the pet supplement way for a couple reasons. one well one I would niche way down like the 500 to a,000 I would go I would find something that's a supplement for left-handed uh people with one eye or something I don't know something about dogs left-handed dogs you have to be a left-handed oneeyed dog owner yeah exactly a dog with a exactly but then if that was humans but then if it was it was pets because pets don't don't know if it's working or not a human taking something I feel better I have more energy or I'm losing right on a dog. The dog I mean the human has to decide is this working or not and it may may be or may not. So I would think the lifetime value uh might be a little stronger on a pet and a lot of people will spend money on their pet sometimes more than they'll spend on their own health. they'll actually spend it on a pet and if you position it like a you saying with the story properly and you don't have to get as crazy with the delivery mechanisms um I think that could be even though it's competitive there that might be where I go and there's less liability because pets are property uh you know you give a supplement to a human and they die you can get sued for murder uh you know according to this Tylenol thing uh but if a pet if you a pet takes a supplement and dies you it's property damage it's a it's a whole different whole different thing. It's um not criminal. It's civil. So that's why that's where I would go if if I was doing it and try to compete um and position the product as if the human was taking it, but this is for your dog and appeal on those emotions that everybody wants to treat their dog like a princess. I don't disagree. I I think I think first thing anyone listening to this, if you're looking to do it or you're already in is this passion. What are you What are you passionate about? If you are passionate about your dog and your animals and you and you can put everything into that, that that would be the first thing. And then to your point, ne niching down and figuring out, okay, where is a market I can I can create? Is something going on with my own dog, my own pet that I can create a relatable, believable story and connect that to the brand in some way. And then you start to build community. Once that product's been developed and you've got your story, then you go out there and you start finding groups uh of people online that have animals that are dealing with that same issue and then you start to become part of it and the next thing you know you've got some organic traction. You've got a following and that's where it really starts to kick in on your Amazon brand. I guess one of the things that uh you got to look at as well, you were talking about the the new seller that's coming in and doing the 500 to a,000, you know, bottles. Well, you really got to look at, you know, is there is there a USP? Uh is there a different bottle? Is there a different label? Can I afford all that? What type of marketing am I going to do? It's not just going to be coming in from Amazon PPC. So, I'm kind of curious, what type of budget? Now, I know this is how long is a piece of string, but on average, if I were to come to you and say, "I have this great idea for this really cool uh supplement, what do you got to what do you got to look at?" And and also, we've got to put in, like you just said, that community cost. So, we want to build that up as well. But are you looking at in, you know, 15,000? Are you looking at 50,000? What do you need? Yeah. So I'm in this I'm in this exact situation myself right now. I'm launching a new brand and you know I've got my budget around at you know just just in product cost alone I'm at 40 I'm at 40,000 you know now normally I would say in the past I would launch a brand with a thousand units or 1500 units if I was just doing Amazon but I'm not going that path I'm doing the exact strategy that I told you. So, I need about 5,000 units. I need to do all my seating with my influencers. I need to, you know, get my Vine reviews built up. Uh, so that's just on the the the product side. And then I've allocated another 30 give or take, uh, towards building out all the other infrastructure that I need, all my websites, my Shopify stores, my bundles, uh, my Amazon pages, and then getting the right team members, right? You got to have the right people sitting on the bus because it's not practical for one person to do all these things efficiently. So, you got to have a, you know, a couple of team members to help you navigate this stuff. So, and I'm budgeting between 70 and 90,000 for my product uh launch, right? But, but I want to go big with it. Like, that's my goal. You've launched hundreds of brands. Can you just give us one product launch that you're really proud of? Um, one product launch that I'm really proud of. Yeah. And why? Um, well, I think that's really You're putting me on the spot here. I've got I got I got a I got a couple. I I think the one I've I've had a bunch like you said. I'm I'm more excited about the one I'm about to do actually more than the others. And and I know that isn't an example of one, but I'm excited about the one I'm about to do because it it takes into consideration all the things I've talked about. My father um you know suffered from early on onset Alzheimer's. Okay. And so I didn't want to suffer from that same fate. So I started doing a ton of research. This is about three years ago. And I came up I started reading this and I I I truly believe in manifestation. So, I'm reading this uh industry magazine around supplements and the the term gutbrain, I don't know if you guys have ever heard of this before, but gutbrain access, psychobiotics, was like on the cover. And I'm like, gutbrain? What the hell is that all about? So, I started doing a ton of research and I figured out, and I'll get to the point, uh, is that the gut and the brain have a symbiotic relationship. And 90% of people feel that if something's going on with the brain, they need to fix the brain first. But in reality, over I think 85% of our body's ability to fight disease comes from in our immunity comes from our stomach. Proper gut health. And so if you want to fix the brain, inflammation, uh, depression disorder, all these other things, you actually need to fix the gut first. So, on a whim, I filed for a trademark gutbrain uh for supplements, never thinking I'd actually would get it. But six months later, I got the the trademark for the term gutbrain. And I'm now launching a brand. It's a it's a nropic product that is focused on helping people with shortterm and long-term memory, but using ingredients that fix the microbiome, the gut, which in turn fixes the brain for clarity, memory, focus, um you know, all the other amazing attributes that go along with it. So, why am I excited about that? Because it's a story. It's it's relatable. It is real. and I I'm developing a product for myself, but that that will what will help and benefit millions of other people. And so that brand has a lot of intention behind it, right? And if you're listening to this podcast, I would say build your brand and your community community with intention, right? With the right emotions around it because that's what will resonate with people more now than ever because there's so many products out there that are confusing and misleading. But and then and I just feel like if you have authenticity to the brand that's going to resonate with people more than ever. Yeah. Yeah. What's a neutropic? Just a you said that word just for people who don't understand. What's a neutropic? A neutropic product is is really um a brain it can be considered like a brain stimulate. So a bunch of like neurohackers. David Aspbury as an example. Yeah. His products were neotropics like brain hacking. How do you how do you maximize uh the output of the brain with supplementation? Okay. Yeah. And so my product is a neutropic. It's a brain product, but it's the first in the world to actually combine a psychobiotic, which is a probiotic that breaks the blood brain barrier. So that that probiotic communicates with the brain and and does a whole bunch of really really cool stuff. I'm going to bore you with it, but it's different. It's unique and it works. Uh, and so yeah, to answer your your question, Norm, that's that's what I'm really excited about right now. Well, just listening to, you know, you getting gut um gut brain, right? Gut brain and getting that trademark. I was just thinking I don't know, Kevin, maybe we could talk about it right here, but we could put out a supplement called fat ass. What do you think? Yeah, I think I think it would be good. We could we could probably sell a lot. Yeah, we could sell a lot, especially into some communities and tattoos with just big asses on it, you know. There you go. Um, someone who can manufact you when you're ready. Okay. Yeah. All right. I know. I heard about this turnkey place somewhere. Uh, yeah. I It's interesting you say that. That's been a big trend lately. I remember my brother, he's big into the uh the stomach health gut stuff. And like seven year seven, eight years ago, before this was cool, he actually told me, "Hey, Kevin, you should check out this what they're doing in Israel. the rules are different on testing or lab work or whatever it is in Israel than they are in the US. And they're actually taking the poo poo of other humans and sticking it in in another human, like a healthy a healthy human's poo poo and somehow injecting that into a person that is sick. And it's actually it's actually healing them because these these gut whatever microbes or whatever the the technology the the thing is are actually then getting into the sick person and like killing all the bad ones and reh harvesting in a good way. And I'm like you got to be joking. And then I look at it's a real thing now and it's become it's come a long ways. So yes, that is true. That is a thing. I can verify that. I haven't I haven't participated in that at all. But don't worry, we're not going to do that. In essence, what you're doing is you're recolonizing your your your gut microbiome. So, they will take the fecal matter from healthy, you know, like someone who's really healthy, got like an unbelievable microbiome and they'll put that into people who who really don't have it and it will regenerate and recolonize and and they've seen amazing results with it. Yeah. So, it's interesting. So, how are you how are you doing the formulations now? Are you are like is it is you seeing a lot of ch this one that you just developed. I mean that can be years of research in a lab or is it you you you put on a white coat and you're in your kitchen like mixing stuff and the boil boiling water's over here or is it like go to chat GBT and say hey this is the issue do some deep research and spit something back out to me. I think it's a combination of all of it except for the lab coat part you know. So I ideally ideally you would you would go to chat and you would be like hey listen I want to create the world's best um no tropic formula and what I want to make sure it has is both shortterm and long-term benefits. I want some I want something that someone's going to feel within the first 45 minutes of taking it but that also has a lot of long-term health benefit. and I want it to have one trademarked ingredient and I want you know so I like to give it very specific requirements and then it kicks that back out to you and then you can just start to play with that formulation and that's where I would come in. So once that initial research was done, I'd sit down with you and say, "Okay, let me look at what you've developed. I'll put it through my own process, I'll analyze it, and then I'll start to look at it for feasibility." Like, how do those ingredients work together? Are they are they symbiotic? And do they have a good relationship? Do they pair well? What's the cost structure going to be? Like, are you giving me something that's going to cost $50 to make and just isn't feasible in the marketplace? And then once we've dialed that in and I think it's at a really good place, at least 85% 90% there, I'll then put that out to bid with my manufacturing partners and let's like let's start to see where the prices come back, what what we're thinking about, and then we can always refine it a bit more. And then we'll also double check that with our in-house uh doctor team or scientists because they may be able to close that 10% gap, right? They may say, "Okay, well, this is really good, but maybe add this or don't add this because it doesn't add as much value as maybe replacing it with this thing." Those are the things chat does doesn't totally get right. But I feel like we can get 90% of the way there and that final 10% is is really where we come in. What about testing it? I mean, is there a process where like like you just said earlier, your your new thing, you're like, "It works." You got all excited. It actually works. So, how do you is when you're doing supplements, like if you're going to get FDA approval, you got to go through all these rounds of testing. With supplements, is that the case or you can just like chat GBC said this, the doctor looked at, he said, "Yep, looks good. All right, let's put it out." And it depends on what you're using. A lot of the ingredients we recommend have clinical either clinical studies or clinical trials behind them. So, there's a difference between a trademarked ingredient and a generic ingredient. Now, a quick word from our sponsor, Lavanta. Hey, Kevin, tell us a little bit about it. That's right, Amazon sellers. Do you want to skyrocket your sales and boost your organic rankings? Meet Lavanta, Norman and I's secret weapon for driving highquality external traffic straight to our Amazon storefronts using affiliate marketing. That's right. is achieved through direct partnerships with leading media outlets like CNN, Wire Cutter, and Buzzfeed, just to name a few, as well as top affiliates, influencers, bloggers, and media buyers, all in Levant's marketplace, which is home to over 5,000 different creators that you get to choose from. So, are you ready to elevate your business? Visit get.lav.io/misfits. That's get.lov lavanta l van n ta.io/misfitvitz and book a call and you'll get up to 20% off Lavanta's gold plan today. That's get.lavont.io/misfits. So there's a difference between a trademarked ingredient and a generic ingredient. But like for example, fish oil, you can just use fish oil and there are hundreds of re, you know, uh trials that that verify fish oil is good if they meet these minimum requirements, right? Like if it has so much DHA and whatever in it. And then there's a trademarked ingredient like deep sea fish oil. That's not a thing. I just made that up. that would be a specific ingredient where they probably did a real trial and so they can say uh individuals who use this particular deep sea fish oil experience this this and this. Okay. So a as as you're developing your brand, the deep sea fish oil ingredient might be like five times more expensive than a generic fish oil, but you get to leverage those clinical trial claims in your marketing and branding versus just generic uh research that's been done. So there's a value ad to you as the brand owner depending on what what's important to you. I know I've seen a bunch of just crazy products that have uh you know over the years from Amazon sellers. Have you ever had just somebody a new seller wants to you know start selling supplements come up to you with just some stupid or crazy idea and you just shut them down right on the spot. Yeah, but I don't know if this show is is appropriate for that. Oh, I I can I guess I can imagine. All right, there we go. Yeah, we've definitely had some interesting uh things come up. Uh I got asked the other day, can I make a dog via a doggy Viagra? Right. So, I was like, you know, there's, you know, I got to draw the line somewhere like I can only picture that. Like, okay. Something little red things sticking out all the time. Yeah. Yeah. So that that's what about the interaction of ingredients. So I mean like in you know doctors medical doctors have when they're prescribing like oh make sure this this uh eedrin it if you take eedin at the same time as this other ingredient over here they can have an adverse reaction when they're combined. Is there some Bible of supplements like when you're when you're in there crafting them uh and uh and and make them like we can't put turmeric turmeric with cinnamon because uh that'll cause an explosion in the gut or or whatever. There's some sort of like rules and regulations around that. The there's there are no rules and or regulations in the sense of you know the FDA doesn't uh police each product that goes out the door, right? you as the brand owner take ownus and developing your formulation to know these these requirements. Um, a lot of times the lab themselves will catch these uh situations, but again not 100% their responsibility, but at the end of the day, that's why all supplements have the disclaimers. Make sure you talk to your health care professional before you take any supplements, right? And then and you really should be doing that like hey like here's my concoction of products will you please take a look make sure all these things don't interact with my diabetes medicine or my insulin or or you know those types of things. So it's it's the brand owner but it's also the consumer needs to be responsible too for what they're putting in their body ultimately. Okay, that's so when is there an ideal when when you're do from the marketing point of view is there an ideal number of units whether it's capsules or tablets or strips or gummies or whatever to be in a unit? Do do you want to do you want to package them 30 if it's a daily thing so that they have to come back to you every month or do you want no let's give them a 90-day supply so they can only order every 3 months or is there some psychology to the way you actually package these and to do the marketing to actually maximize value from a from a manufacturer to customer point of view? Yeah, great question. So I like to do 30-day supply of everything. So that could be a one or two capsule or you know if it's five capsules then you do the math and then you just do bundles from there and you and you start giving price breaks. So 30-day supply and a single bottle then you come back and if they want a 60-day or 90 day supply you just you just you know kind of pack them together, bundle them together and then you just give them a discount uh for ordering more. But that's what I would do. That's what I typically see works the best. What about the ones that take longer to take effect? I don't know. I'm just making something up here. Some hair growth supplement. And it it takes 90 days to actually before I start really seeing my hair growing back on my head. Working really well. Do people do people actually do you sell that as a 90-day supply or you sell that as a 30-day supply and they got to keep coming back or how many people give up? You know, they're like, I'm not seeing how many people with when it comes to supplements want instant results. They they want to feel better, want to have more energy now. They're not willing to play the long the long game. Yeah. I mean, there are certain products that that I personally never got into, and not that they're bad, but that is that is one of them. I mean, there's a difference between somebody feeling something uh short term and then someone actually seeing a real result like hair growth that doesn't work for everybody and it's very it's very scientific and you and I both know if you start getting negative reviews like you're done. Like that that's really difficult uh to sustain. Um, but to answer your question, I feel that giving them a 30-day supply and then having them come back and reorder is probably they are less likely to do that. That's why I think a 90-day supply would make sense in that scenario. So, you just give them the full amount. It might cost more, but after 30 days, if they don't see results, they write a negative review or they don't they don't buy the next 60 days worth. Right? So the likelihood of them coming back and repurchasing it is lower versus selling them the full amount all up front. So I want to talk a little bit about perception, perceived value. Kevin and I talk about this quite a bit and somebody comes to you, multiple people come to you with a very similar formula or it could be the exact formula. You're you're giving them the manufacturer, they're cutting the deal, I guess, and then it really comes down to the marketing side. You can have the, you know, the white, I call it the gen generic supplement bottle. You have very similar products, but then you have that person that does something completely different. And all of a sudden, and I'm asking you this, they can charge more. They spend a couple of nickels, you know, a dollar extra, and they can charge$10 or $20 more. Do you see that quite a bit? I do. Yeah. I mean, if you just go online right now, whether it's Instagram or Tik Tok, just doing the average white bottle is fine, but it's really the brands that create that that that brand image that are that are crushing it right now. You know, differentiation, sustainability, form factor, colors, all those things have to be different. They don't have to be, but but if you really want to stand out, they should be. So, yes. Is that why you use a trademark uh ingredient in your formulation? You said you're using one in yours. Does that give you some sort of IP protection or because you have an exclusive right to use that agreement or No, no. Anyone can anyone can use a trademark agreement or a trade the trademark uh product. Okay. Okay. So, what how what keeps somebody you come out with yours. What keeps someone else uh your competition from buying the the pill uh or the a bottle and reverse engineering it and like let's do our own version? Nothing. Nothing. It's just the marketing then, right? So that that so it comes down to to marketing and and being a leader and staying on the edge. Uh community and and community. Yeah. It goes back to that community, Kevin, that you were talking. Trust. Yeah. Community and trust. You got to build those two things and you're good and you know and you're good to go. Um but there is nothing stopping somebody from looking at my supplements panel and copying it. Huh. Uh, okay. Um, so, so that's why you're seeing Norm probably these people that are putting a different twist and calling it the Kumaran PX20 or something that and it's got a slightly different mix or it's got extra something in it. So, it's an extra boost. I mean, but a lot of times you look at like I think a lot of like eedran and Tylenol and stuff, it's all marketing because you you go to the Walgreens or the CVS to pick up a bottle of like Tylenol, there's Tylenol extra strength, Tylenol migraine, Tylenol uh this and that. A lot of them it's the exact same damn thing. You look at the ingredients on the back, it's the exact same thing in each one. They're just changing the packaging to go so you don't go Tylenol. I don't know. I need something for a migraine. Oh, Tylenol migraine. That's for me. let me buy that. It's the exact same thing as a regular Tylenol. Uh or maybe it's a slight variation of a little bit extra or something, but it's basically the same thing. So, that's a Do you see a lot of that marketing kind of stuff happen in the supplement space, too? Thousand%. If you're not doing that moving forward, that's that's the whole point I was trying to get at. You've got to, you know, someone who's got a migraine, yet it may be a smaller pool versus someone who's just looking for a Tylenol for a sore shoulder. But if you've got a migraine, you're you're gonna you're going to gravitate right towards that product, right? Because it's talking to you. It's specific. So, you should break down your whatever your your supplement does. If it solves these seven problems, you have one that's like a master bottle. Okay, we solve all these problems, it's the master mix. and then to have different packaging or different skew or different something that's the same thing just completely differently marketed uh towards migraines or towards gut health or towards uh brain fog or whatever it is and that that's that would be a really good strategy is to have multiple SKs of the same thing targeting different audiences. Yeah, you could. Just depends on your bandwidth. But, you know, if you created a brand that was specific in the audience, you could leverage that same brand on multiple symptoms too, right? But yeah, yes, I think the more you can be focused, the more you can be targeted, the better. Are you selling in retail? Uh, I'm not. Uh, my business partner is. I have not uh gone the retail route yet, but my goal would be with the new brand to do. So, have you considered uh retail packaging right off the bat? So, we've got our online packaging, which is could be completely different from retail. Do you kind of think about that before you uh launch your product? Yeah, I I actually have my new branding right here. I could I could show you guys. I don't know if you want me to get up or not, but um but yeah, I've I've done that. I've got I've I've already designed the packaging for retail even though I'm just starting online. Smart. Very good. Yeah. What's the hottest trends right now in supplements? What are people coming to you like you know three you always ask in the Amazon space the 3PLs like uh here's another weighted baby blanket, here's another weighted blanket, here's another uh fidget spinner. Um what is it in supplement? You you see it because everybody and their brothers coming to you for formulations or can you do this? What's hot? What what's hot right now? What's going to be the next gummies right now? Gummies are gummies are the hottest the hottest product. So, anything in gummies is is really doing well. There's like whey protein gummies, sleepy gummies, vitamins. Um, you know, just anything gummies is really good. Uh, what else? I've seen a lot of pet products like you said, like chews, joint joint products. Um, probiotics is is a really popular one. Seems to be doing really well still. So, I would say those types of products. Yeah. Hey, Kevin King and Norm Ferrar here. If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits, thanks for listening this far. Continue listening. We got some more valuable stuff coming up. Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify. Make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of the Marketing Misfits. Have you subscribed yet, Norm? Well, this is an old guy alert. Should I subscribe to my own podcast? Yeah, but what if you forget to show up one time? It's just me on here. You're not going to know what I say. I'll I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair, too. We'll just You can go back and forth with one another. Yikes. But that being said, don't forget to subscribe, share it. Oh, and if you really like this content, somewhere up there there's a banner. Click on it and you'll go to another episode of the Marketing Misfits. Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm. You know, just a a quick story. This goes back to 199798. I staying with a a buddy and he had these I think Yeah, there you go. I could tell that was the year I was born. Yeah. And I was 50. So much for Yeah, that's exactly it. But he had these giant schnowzers and both of them I think that's what you call them. uh both of them uh had really bad hip dysplasia and he got this nano uh water and it it it was from an MLM back in the day and he started using it and I was with him for three weeks. No crap. These dogs were running around after three weeks of drinking this bloody water. Now, it's no longer on the market, but uh it was it worked like a charm. I don't know why they didn't take it off. It had cocaine in it, Norm. That's why they took it off the market. That's it. Gave the dogs energy. That's why they could run around without pain. It was cocaine. Hey, it looks like it's at the top of the hour. Adam, I've got one question for you. Yes, sir. We always ask our misfits if they know a misfit. Yeah, I got I got a great person for you, Tommy Lynch. I would throw his I would throw his hat in the ring. I don't know if you've talked to Tommy before. Tik Tok uh tick tock guy that might be of interest to the audience. It seems to be a really hot topic right now and I think he would be a great fit. Yeah, his story. I just interviewed him yesterday for the AM podcast. Amazing. and his his story of living in a building furniture out of uh of pallets where he's grabbing them from when he's 15 and then living in a bus and going around doing the bus thing. Now Kevin Xate Xnate, you're spoiling it. There's a spoiler alert here. It's good. It's good. No, this there's more to it. There's I'm leaving a lot of things out. It's it's it's good. But yeah, Tommy's Tommy's good. He's a good dude. So that that's that would have been my pick, but you already got him. So, um I think we have we have for this podcast. Yeah, you might be a good fit. Uh I think Christa would be a great one. I know you you've met Christa before. Um she was Norm. You talked to her. Uh she was with me. I don't know if you have you interviewed her yet. No, we haven't. That's a good one. Get her on. Get her on. I think she'd be she'd be an awesome fit. Former Amazon employee for like seven or 11 years. She she she was in the belly of the beast. Um, and she's got a lot of lot of great insight um, for for that type of stuff. She's crazy smart as well. Just she's wicked smart. Yeah, she she's going to put you both to shame, but that's okay. Someone that someone that can put Norm to shame. Oh, yeah. Right. Freaking Dallas of the dog puts me to shame. There you go. All right. People want to reach out, where do they go? If they want to get into the sub business, learn more, where what's the website or how do they reach you or whatever? Yeah, just turnkeyalth andbeauty.com. turnkeyalth andbeauty.com. Um, and thank you. Thank you guys. I've always been huge fans you guys for for many many years and I appreciate the opportunity to actually spend some quality time in this format with you. So, it was my honor. Well, thank you. We're we're glad you're on the podcast. Yeah. I look forward to seeing you soon. All right. So, I'm going to remove you and we'll be back. Just Kevin and I now. Oh, where's the button? Oh, there we go. I did it. I almost thought I I took Adam right out of the left the studio. But, uh, all right. It's got me thinking. I I need to come up with a supplement. You know, I I lost my dog, my last dog last year to that liver disease. And I was, you know, the whole thing story behind that. But I wonder if uh could do some deep research and find something that would actually, you know, I was able to prolong her life. They they said that they usually live about two years and by using some uh creams and different things and having a special doctor I was able to get another 10 10 months out of her almost. Uh so I'm wondering if there's something out there. He's got me thinking like I should go do some research based from what I know there cuz that's a good story. Like you said, you need a story and then actually um do uh creating something along those lines and seeing uh seeing what might help. I mean, that's a pretty niche thing cuz that's a rare disease, but there's probably something that's a couple levels up that a lot more dogs have. Um, so no, I think I think uh, you know, with the tools now, like what he said was with chat GPT and some of these things that can do all this, uh, research for you that that cuts down the barrier to entry, I think, dramatically uh, on a lot of this stuff. 100%. You you should also launch the other supplement line more for uh well the the the ED one for dogs. No, no, no, no. I just take that one myself. I mean, no. Just something that you like. I know that you only take uh supplements that you can Well, they're um they're trying to say stick them up your ass. Uh yeah, those are the best cuz they melt really fast. Yeah, right. They they go in the no. No, but I actually I mean I'm someone that I can't I can't swallow pills of any kind of any size. Even the tiniest little asp baby as AS. Are you serious? I cannot swallow it. So everything every bit of my So if it's a time releaseleas medicine, uh I don't get time release. I I I have to take unscrew the little uh capsule, the little plastic, and I dump the little white powder onto a spoon, put a couple drops of water in there, and take it. or I have to get it I have to get it in a you know a different format tablet format that I can chew. So I actually have chaser you've seen them probably at my house I mean some of the medicines and vitamins I take you know if it's if it's Fll Flintstones flavored grape I can take that and chew it. I can't swallow it but I can chew it. But normal vitamins you put four or five in your mouth or or pill uh medicines it's nasty. So, I have a chaser. I have little pralines, like a little uh pralines with uh peanuts in them, and I just break off a small little piece, and I put the pills in my mouth, and I put that as a chaser to knock the nasty taste out cuz I can't I have to chew it. That's That's wild. Yeah. I I I almost drowned when I was young. Um so, that's uh I have a a version. It's not just pills. It's like if I'm eating fur and you know, you know when you're eating fur, there's some of those little leaves, those little uh leaves. if one of those gets stuck on the on my mouth on the way down, it freaks me out. Um, so it it's uh yeah, it's one of those things. I'm sure there's other people like that. So maybe I I should come up with a delivery mechanism uh for those kind of people. I mean, got my wheels turning here. Uh talking to Adam supposito. Let me write that down. Turnkey turnkey something something and something be Yeah. No, I'm just kidding. But uh no, that was great. That was great. So, if you like this podcast and you know someone in the supplement business maybe or someone that should hear this or someone that's got some good ideas or maybe even has a good story, forward this to them because I think they'll get a lot of value by listening to Adam and maybe they should they can even reach out to Adam and he can help you uh or help you or your friend or your colleague that's thinking about this and kind of put them on the right track and make sure they get hooked up with the right people. So, I think this could be a very valuable uh episode for for a lot of you. And if you like it, make sure you hit that subscribe button. Whether you're watching this on YouTube or whether you're on Apple Podcast or Spotify or wherever it may be, because every single Tuesday, Norm and I are here with a brand new episode that's really cool. Anything marketing related, we talk about everything from domains to email marketing to you saw supplement marketing to branding to you name it. And uh it it's all here. And now we even have another channel that Norm is like been busting on. He and the team have been working really hard on. It's really cool. What's that channel, Norm? That they should check out. It's on YouTube and you can get there. It's just marketing misfits clips and it's doing really well. Uh the And what we're doing with it is we're just extracting the nuggets 3 minutes or less. So, if you don't have time to listen to the long format, you can go over there and we're publishing around four clips a week right now. It'll be more a little bit later on, but um yeah, it's and getting lots of views. So, oh, and by the way, guys, if you subscribe here, don't forget to subscribe over there. That's right. You want to do it in both places. Yeah, exactly. Norm, we got we got we got things to do, money to make, people to talk to, things to research. Uh so I guess I'll see you again uh next week for another episode. All right, and don't forget marketingmisfits.co. That's right. Ciao. See you later. [Music]