Storytelling Is the Last Skill AI Can’t Replace...

The importance of storytelling in today's world, especially in the AI world, I think is becoming even more and more important. It's that human connection. It's that something that the AI can't do. If you overleverage AI, what's everything going to sound like? The same stuff. Now, every story that you read, you see this a lot on LinkedIn. It's like the same thing. Well, where is, you know, your unique voice? It's gone. Why is that important? Not just so you stand out, so you can connect with your people better with what you have to sell. They have to hear something that triggers an emotion in them that says, "Ooh, I want to hear more about what he has to say or I want to buy what she has to offer because that spoke to me." That is why storytelling ever became popular with among humans was because it established trust with one another. Empathy, understanding, connection, and therefore trust. You're watching Marketing Misfits with Norm Ferrar and Kevin King. You know, Norm, you know I'm an Aggie, right? A Texas A&M Aggie. Is that a hockey team? No, that's a college football team where, you know, we have more people in our stands than you have at five of your hockey games up there in Canada on on game day. That's that's how important college football is here. But I always remember something. We have We don't have cheerleaders at Texas&M in the traditional sense of, you know, females with pom poms and stuff. We're one of the only schools that doesn't. We have what's called yell leaders. And before every home football game, uh, which is college games are typically on a Saturday for the most part. On the Friday before, we have what's called midnight yell practice. And this is literally at midnight. And about 20 so thousand or so students mostly show up in the stands at midnight to practice the yells that they're going to do during the game that these yell leaders have hand signals from the from the field that signal and the whole stadium does these yells in in unison. But the beginning of every one of these yell practices, the one of the yo leaders goes up there and he says something to the effect like, "Howdy, as how you and everybody goes back, howdy." And they say, "I got a little story for you." And he tells a little story about some sort of a story about maybe the next team we're playing or something like that just to engage the people and to get them kind of riled up. And you kind of do the same thing. You get you get me riled up whenever we're sitting around hanging a having a cigar. Uh you don't get me riled up. That's not that's not true. But you you fascinate me. That's probably the better way to say it. Because you've always got stories. You've always we're sitting around three or four hours shooting the bull, having a cigar, and another story comes out. And once I think I've known you for years, then another story comes out, then another story comes out. Storytelling, I think, is something that a lot of people in marketing completely overlook. And our guest today is someone who I've followed and who I've actually referenced people to uh because he wrote a book uh called six the six second story that I think is critical and you have taken that to heart because in your newsletter you do a story in every single one of your newsletters to kick it off and you tie that back. It's a personal story that's, you know, 10, eight, nine short little paragraphs long and that then you tie back to business. And I I was doing that in the beginning and I I've kind of gotten away from a little bit just because of content and stuff. But storytelling is amazing. So, I can't wait to speak uh with uh Rain Bennett today because I think this is going to be very enlightening and fascinating for a lot of people and it's going to play right into uh what you're really good at in storytelling. Yeah. And by the way, you're the one that got me to do that to make that newsletter stand out by doing something a little different by doing the storytelling. So, uh, I got to thank you for that one. Oh, you kept it up. You've kept it up. I actually got away from I did it the first like 20 issues or something like and I had a list of 87 of them and I kind of got away from it. Um, and you know, just before we bring him on, just real quick, one of the other things I know when you're you're telling stories one time and I remember when I looked at you and I said, "You know what, Norm, you need to put these stories down for your for your boys, for your kids, because one day you're not going to be here." And some of these stories they've never heard. Remember I told you my dad sat down and wrote all these little short stories for me about when he had to put his dog down, when he had to met my mom and all this kind of stuff and uh how valuable that little thing is. Uh, so storytelling is can be magic if you if you use it right in marketing. And so I think our guest today is going to have some tips and strategies uh that people can really go deep on. Uh, and so this is going to be cool, I think. Absolutely. And by the way, Kelsey comes back. He does a lot of the publishing for the newsletters and he comes back all the time and says, "I never knew about this story." So yeah, but uh, let's bring on Rain. Yeah, let's do it. There he is. Here I am, boys. There he is. How you doing, Rain? Listen, you guys got me riled up now. You got six seconds. Okay, let's You got six seconds. Go. No, but uh I mean you you you got into this I think uh by you had a story to I mean you got into this whole realm of the storytelling stuff uh by you had a story to tell and you worked for like you went all over the world or the country or something for like five or six or a long time, seven years or something uh to tell tell a pretty cool story. Can can you walk us through the your your background of how this kind of all evolved? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so my background is uh documentary film making. That's how I make my living and that's how I've made my living for about 20 years, not exclusively, but primarily. And so that means, you know, doing short documentaries or PSAs or longer documentaries for clients uh for many years. And around 2012, 2010, 2012, I had a story that was kind of brewing that I was interested in, a subculture that I wanted to explore. And and so I did. I spent my last money on a on a plane ticket and and basically put my stuff in storage. I was living in New York at the time and traveled the world for several years. And it took several more after the travels to to finish the film because it was all self uh self-funded and self-propelled. Uh didn't really have a team. That culture was a a street workout culture, a a freestyle calisthenics. Calisthenics is bodyweight exercise. And so it was this subculture that was born out of playgrounds in New York City and and all over the world. Uh and the concept was we, you know, we come from these areas that we can't necessarily afford these big uh expensive gyms like equinoxes with all the wall of televisions and air conditioning. So they're like, we're going to use whatever's around us. That could be monkey bars at the playground. That could be scaffolding, which is all over New York, park benches, whatever we can. The world is our gym. And it became this really beautiful tool for community building because people that wouldn't normally socialize together would congregate around the bar, the pull-up bar. Um, and it became this beautiful like community building healthy tool social movement. And so that's what interests me. At the same time, it started becoming organized and becoming this new sport. It's kind of like parkour if you're familiar with that. um but more exercise-based instead of just you know freestyle movement based and they started having world competitions. I traveled this is when I traveled all over the world for it. And basically the the thesis was or the question was uh you know will the commercialization of it or the or the inevitable commercialization of it kill the beauty the heart of the culture which is about changing the community and uplifting the kids, right? Getting them out of gangs and off the streets and into something healthy. Um and so yeah, that was my first feature documentary which was very much a passion project, labor, love, whatever you want to call it. And after I came back from that, I was like one exhausted and was like, "Okay, I don't want to do it like that again." Like just going out on a limb with no money and no backing, just, you know, a dream and an idea. Though I'm proud of myself that I did. So I started asking myself, okay, what did I learn in that process that might be helpful for folks? And just to condense it down to, you know, one sentence, I learned how to tell a powerful story when you don't have a lot of resources. So then I started looking who might benefit from that. Well, this was around 201617 when I came out of that and we sold the film. Everybody is being tasked with having to be a content creator at that point if you want to keep up with your competitors. But that does not mean that these people are trained and skilled in writing or film making or any of the arts. So would those people benefit from understanding how to create stories that connect with your audience quickly and deeply when you don't have a lot of technical knowhow or maybe budget or crew etc. Yeah, absolutely. So that's when I started the platform of teaching, storytelling, coaching and consulting brands, uh, writing the book, public speaking, sharing all these lessons I learned the hard way from documentary filmm. And let's let's be honest, even the top documentary films is it's not a lucrative business. It's still very, very challenging. It's not uncommon for documentaries to take 5 to 10 years to complete. Um, so it's it's a hard task and I say that to say you learn a lot of lessons the hard way. It's kind of like jazz, isn't it? It's not dead, but it smells funny. I mean, if you want to make money, you go to rock. But documentary I I love documentary film. Yeah. And we're in this golden era. I mean, people love documentary films. And now there are more places than ever to get them seen. But pretty much every doc filmmaker that I know has some sort of not side hustle, but they have to to have supplementary income. Now hopefully and generally that's in the field. So they might be an editor for commercials and then they go make their films. So this became my thing of okay, how am I going to pay the bills in the meantime? Because even if you're great at it and consistent with your work, it's still project based. So it's peaks and valleys. So in in those months where you're developing a project, you got to pay the bills, especially if you have kids to feed, right? So it's good to have something like that. For me, it became the platform of storytelling. Yeah. A lot of documentary films get they they find sponsors that just kind of donate or you know someone will say here's 200 grand almost like a grant not really a grant but like a donation and you'll see the little at the end uh funding and you know appreciation to XYZ Corporation or whatever for helping make this possible and u but now with places like Netflix documentaries are popular on Netflix I mean there's one after another uh coming out on Netflix cuz I watch a lot of them but that's the art and some of them are great and some of them are like h okay I'm I'm done. But I'll watch something that I have no I just watched one the other day, a documentary about American Apparel that was on Netflix. I have no interest in Netflix or in in in American Apparel and fashion, but the story was fascinating about the owner and his craziness and what they went through. And so they hooked me because they actually weave together a really good story and really good characters throughout the story to to propel that forward. And that's what uh just on that same note just real quick I just want to make a point here with in today's world of AI uh everybody's using AI to write stories or write whatever uh a lot of people are and there is an art to to writing story and there's a human creativity to it and I'm actually doing something right now with my newsletter. I haven't even told Norm. I don't think this yet, but I'm actually taking the newsletter and I'm creating little 60second to 120 second videos, animated videos where it's a character of me with a guest and we're like in a coffee shop where we're walking down the street and I take one section of the newsletter and then we it's almost like a notebook LM LLM where it's two characters talking back and forth to each other. But I I put out to try to find someone to do this. I could figure this out myself, but everybody was coming back with like they can make the tools look but they're not storytellers. So I end up going with a Hollywood company that actually is from the film industry. So they understand shadows and cuts and angles and and and one of the guys is a storyteller. So he can take these and turn them into a story. So the importance of storytelling in today's world, especially in the AI world, I think is becoming even more and more important. It's that human connection. It's that something that the AI can't do. AI can summarize. uh but to tell a but then on the flip side you see people like I'm writing stories for my kid to read to them at night using AI. So what's your opinion on on storytelling in this new AI world? I absolutely think it's it's going to be just as important and more important to understand my whole platform especially now I've been zeroing in on this um niche or perspective in storytelling for quite a while is you and I all three of us if we were tasked with telling a story about the same topic let's say we're going to make a documentary let's do that we were given the same amount of money same camera operator same topic. Go make your movie. All three of them would be, should be different because we are all different. We think differently. We perceive the world differently. We walk in the world. We're interested in different things, right? So, if we were to to, you know, to do a documentary about I got a little theraun here in my hand, a little, you know, massager. Uh, if we were to do one about that, well, one of us would do one about the history of Theun like as a as a corporation. one might do uh one about the evolution of m massage guns, right? And where we are with that, like we would come at it from a different angle. This is what people neglect and overlook so often, brands, specifically personal brands or or big companies. It's like, yeah, but how do we tell stories? So, if you leverage over if you overleverage AI to tell your stories, I'm not saying you shouldn't use it. It is a very efficient and effective tool, but if you overleverage AI, what's everything going to sound like? the same stuff. This is a problem when people in storytelling even before the age of AI followed uh the templates and formulas a little too much or a little too color by numbersy is that yeah now every story that you read and you see this a lot on LinkedIn is like the same thing. Well, where is the where is you know your unique voice? It's gone. Why is that important? Not just so you stand out. So you can connect with your people better with what you have to sell. They have to hear something that triggers an emotion in them that says, "Ooh, I want to hear more about what he has to say or I want to buy what she has to offer because that spoke to me." If we're all out there saying what chat GBT is writing for us, it's just pulling from other people, it's all going to be the same stuff. So if you understand, if you tap in to yourself, your heart and your head first and understand what's a Rain Bennett story versus a Kevin story or a Norm story, then I can use my GPT or train, you know, my AI to have that voice and maybe, you know, establish something in that in in that narrative tone, that style, that topic, whatever it might be. So, I think it's going to be more and more important because everybody's going to be using the same tool and it's going to we're going to get over it and it's it's going to allow you know the cream still rises to the top. This is the thing we've always faced. In the beginning of my career, it became really easy to buy and own camera equipment. Whereas the 10 or 20 years before that, it was super expensive. It was super heavy and big. Not everyone could be a filmmaker. Well, now everybody's got a camera on their phone that shoots 4K. Everybody's got a laptop that can edit a feature film. So, people were kind of like, uh, now there's no like barrier to entry. Anybody's going to be making a movie. And that's true. There's a ton of films out there, but the cream still rises to the top. You still have to have something to say at the end of the day. Hey, Norm, you'll love this, man. I talked to a seller the other day doing 50k a month, but when I asked them what their actual profit was, they just kind of stared at me. Are you serious? That's kind of like driving blindfolded. Exactly, man. I told them you got to check out Sellerboard, this cool profit tool that's built just for Amazon sellers. It tracks everything like fees, PPC, refunds, promos, even changing cogs during using FIFO. Aha. But does it do FBM shipping costs, too? Sure does. That way you can keep your quarter four chaos totally under control and know your numbers because not only does it do that, but automates your PPC bids. It forecasts inventory. It sends review requests and even helps you get reimbursements from Amazon. Now, that's like having a CFO in your back pocket. You know what? It's just $15 a month. But you got to go to sellerboard.commisfits. sellerboard.com/misfits. And if you do that, they'll even throw in a free two-month trial. So, you want me to say go to sellerboard.com misfits and get your number straight before your accountant loses it? Exactly. All right. I like what you mentioned uh about the three of us. This is like an artist. You you can have Deli in the room doing, you know, painting some flowers, sunflowers. You can have Van Go. Yeah. Yeah. The clocks. Uh you can have Van Go. You can have Rimbrandt. You can have whoever. You're going to come up with something completely different. I know. Um when and I've seen this quite a bit when people run content through AI generally you can tell it's got some it's generic. It's got long hyphens. It's got long, you know, M dash even if they take the long M dash. That's an instant sign it's AI. Man, I hate that, Kevin, so bad because I am an M dash user and I know how to use it and I I know that's a thing now and I'm like everybody's going to be thinking I'm AI in this. Sorry. Sorry, Norm. No, no, no. I was just saying that it does come off so generic and unless you can use it for a story to give you an idea maybe to give you some creative thoughts but you have to like really inject yourself your own personality and if if you don't do it then people are going to know and there story norm that I wrote back when I was doing this like we said at the beginning I wrote about the the naked girl on the balcony uh you in the in the in my newsletter. So, just rain real quick and for the listeners, I was I I live in a high-rise in downtown Austin and I went out to let my dog uh use the bathroom on the on the little grass pad on the balcony and I look over and there's a naked girl on the big tall building next to me on the b on the balcony just sitting there talking to a dude that's fully dressed. And so I I I wrote a little story about it and said and tied it back to business how you know sometimes you're just naked floating in the wind or whatever. But I wrote the story and then I put it into AI and I said this was like two years ago and I said rewrite this story and it rewrote the story. But then what I did is I went line by line and I kept about 80% of what I wrote and a couple things it said a little bit better. It put it in a little bit different phrase. is almost like what you said Norm was the brainstorming and so I changed a little bit of it kept it kept me and I think that's a good use of it or like you said Norm and and R is take if you've written a bunch of like Norm you now you've done what a hund of these or something in your newsletter if you took all those and put it into your own little LLM and say okay this is my style now write something you're going to get much better results and that could be and you still I think need that human touch though. Yeah, I I love it, Kevin, as like a writing assistant, right? Yeah. In years past, you would pay somebody to do research to find case studies for I'm writing a new book right now. It's coming out next year. Uh, and there's a lot of research. There's a lot of brand examples that I'm using. Well, I'm either going to pay someone 10 years ago to be a a writing assistant, research assistant to find that stuff out, or I can use AI. You still need to do your due diligence and and and cross reference and and and you know look it up yourself. Um but it's really helpful for that. It's very helpful for organizing thoughts. Hey, here's where I'm thinking about going. Do these flow well? You know, outlining. We used theor thesaurus for years. I mean, that's effectively what you're talking about, Kevin. Like, hey, what's a different word for this, right? I mean in a way you know using chat GPT to come up with that is no different than just looking at thesaurus.com or you know having the old manual one. So it's it's just a tool and but there are going to be there are and there will continue to be a lot of people who just say oh well I can just put that out but we already can tell that as Norm said so easily so quickly. We spotted a mile away and when you do that brands this is the most important part and then I'll shut up. you're gonna erode the trust. That is why storytelling ever became popular with among humans was because it established trust with one another. Empathy, understanding, connection, and therefore trust. You go to a website and they've got misspelled words. What happens? You already feel like it's a scam and you won't come back. even if it's not a scam and it's a great product. If you see any little in the armor, like something that's clearly AI or you've seen it before, that's the biggest thing that you're going the biggest thing that's at stake is you're going to start to lose people's trust. And once you do that, it's almost impossible to gain it back. I've gone to a a bunch of parties and let's say you could right from high school right up until, you know, a few You look like you have, Norm. I have. I have. And in these during these parties, you have the people that can tell a story and then you or a joke and you can you have these people that can tell a story and tell a joke. One's really well done, one's not like what's the difference? What works? That's a great question. I mean, it's at the end of the day, what you want to do is conjure up some emotion. That is the goal of any story. And if it that is not included, it doesn't land. It doesn't hit. It doesn't work. Now the objective of that story might be to deliver some information or a message or to inspire action. But it in order to do either of those or to achieve those objectives, you have to evoke emotion. So there are many ways to uh not do that or to do that unsuccessfully. And one of them is this is the classic like terrible storyteller who won't stop telling stories. That's I should make that a character. That's a great like recurring sketch. Uh is they drone on and like you get bored. They drone on and on and on. They give you needless information. Was it 6:15? No, I think it was 6. It was 6:45. You've lost me already. I I stopped carrying. Here's the thing. And whether you're telling a story, watching a movie, reading a book, you want the listener, the audience, the the watcher, whatever you want to call them, you want them to be immersed into that story. So much so that they don't realize they're being told a story. If as soon as they realize they're being told a story, that suspension of disbelief is gone and they tuned out. So, there are many things that cause that. One is the droning on and on and you're giving me too much information. I'm bored. up is this I'm not paying attention. Uh another is not giving me anything to relate to or you know emotion conjured up as I mentioned earlier. Anything if you're using visuals of the movie if I see the same shot over and over again and that's and it's unintentional or the same uh graphic or anything like that. Repetition repetition can there's a thin line too much repetition uh can can pull you out of that. But I think the biggest mistake those terrible storytellers uh do is that it's just a flat line. Like it goes nowhere, right? Stories are like roller coasters, too. It's not tension the whole time. It's not a straight drop the whole time. You got to have that little click click click click to get to the top. You got to have that turn that slow and beautiful right before you dive bomb. Right? It's changing tempo. It's changing pace. It's increasing tension and releasing tension. that starts to play to the the neurochemicals in our brain and that attracts us. If you have these stories that nothing happens, there's no transformation, nobody cares. So that's usually the person that's droning on and on and on. You're like, where is this going? Nowhere is the answer. Then you have that person that now listen that person that's good also just might be entertaining. like they just can make voices and characters that helps but that's just delivery of the story. You can't do that but for so long without some substance right or else we you know we get kind of tired of that. So there's a lot of different things but it I'll tell you one thing it doesn't take a storytelling expert to know within the first minute maybe a lot sooner if it's going to be a good story or not or if this is a good storyteller or not. You know immediately. You're like get me out of here. Save me. Oh, hey Amber. Yeah. So, what did is there a is there a a framework that someone's trying to write a story should do or you said earlier you see all these people fall in the same framework and it falls flat that a lot of people talk about the hero's journey or they talk about the the emotional up and down or the payoff at the end or so is there some tips that you can give to people writing especially in in a business or marketing sales context of how they can actually make their stories perhaps better? Yeah, for sure. There are lots of formulas, lots of frameworks that we can use, but they all tend to um not completely mirror each other, but they're very similar if you break it down to the foundation. The hero's journey is yes, a very common one. I actually stray away from that a little bit in in the brand storytelling business context because this is this is for films and myths that we've been told, right? Joseph Campbell's heroes journey. This is Star Wars. And almost always your brand storytellers are not out there to create some masterpiece like George Lucas's Star Wars saga, his the Empire, right? Um the Empire of Star Wars, not necessarily the Empire of uh the galaxy there. Um so you can use that, but dude, the the original hero's journey is 17 steps. The a bridged version is 12 steps. It's too complicated, man. Aristotle in poetics said a story is a beginning, middle, and end. That might be too vague, but that is probably more helpful to folks than the hero's journey than sitting down and like what was the call to adventure? What was the refusal of the call? Like it's just too esoteric, right? Um ultimately it's a sequence of events that has created change, transformation, right? That's the biggest key that you need. Something has to be different. A six-second story can be like Amazing Grace. I once was lost but now I'm found. Right? Transformation. You might you have to fill in that act too. But that's still that is a story. So generally you have someone that has a goal, something stopping them from that goal, then the journey they go on to overcome that obstacle to achieve that goal. and then the lesson they learned or the transformation they experienced. That's pretty much what a story is. Now that's making it very very crude, right? All the way down to the foundation. Then you doll it up and make it you know that make the house a home right? If we think about what a house is, you think about the foundation, the framework, the pitch of the ceiling maybe and that's about it. And in that way, every house is pretty much the same, right? Is that fair to say? But then you start to add on the things that make it a home and make it unique, right? You start to add on the certain the bay windows. You start to add on carpet or hardwood floors. You start to add on the certain types of walls, etc., etc. That's when you bring the art to the science. It's both. And so that is when someone who's a really good storyteller, norm can can really spike those peaks and those valleys to make them even more engaging and more exciting. But ultimately, if I'm telling story for in a business sense, I'm thinking about who I want to hear this story and what I want it to do to them, which generally is going to be some sort of call to action. buy, you know, buy this product, of course, but it might be click this link, subscribe to the newsletter, Kevin, yada yada yada. Something you want them to do. So, you have to make them feel the emotion that's going to inspire that action. What's the story that's going to do that? Are you going to tell them a story of someone who is similar to them? Are you going to tell, you know, what does that look like? But ultimately, the framework is there's a there's a person with a goal or a problem they want to solve. Something is stopping them. They have to do something. they have to make a change to overcome that thing that's blocking them. Then they achieve the goal or something close to it and they are transformed in a way that leads them to a new world. One of the ways I was using stories in the beginning is I would try to lead it into something else I was covered in the newsletter. So the newsletter is very tactical and actionable Amazon selling or ecom selling type of stuff. So I would talk tell a story about my dog and the whole idea was to engage them and it's almost back to your we'll talk about that in a second the six second story thing just to bring them in and then it continued and once they scrolled down it got them engaged in the newsletter and they continued down then they still have story about how to market this dog bowl in a totally different way and it tied back to the original story at the top uh because that product was inspired by the dog and so that's how I I was I was doing it. Yeah, that's sequencing. That's uh I love that strategy. Awesome. Uh and so what is it? What is a six-second story? I mean that's something that that you you wrote a book on and you talk about a lot. What what is a six-second story and h how do I do that? Uh a six-second story, it it's both literal and figurative. Okay. At that time when I wrote this book, we were seeing actual prime time ads that were reduced to 6 seconds. Historically, it's been 30 seconds, some 60 seconds, then it started getting down to 15 and 10, and then all the way down to six. Uh, that started with, I think, YouTube's like non-s skippable bumper ads at the beginning of um at the beginning of videos, but then you started seeing on like the Super Bowl or the World Series, you'd see and sometimes they're just window within a window and sometimes we jump away for six seconds while there was just an inning change or something like that. So that's what sparked the idea of like okay there's a new ad set there's a you know a a new there are new parameters that are put up that's very challenging like how do we connect with people like I want to connect with people in storytelling which is to say emotionally right connecting to them on a deeper level in six seconds it's not necessarily hard to make someone laugh in six seconds you can think about the old app Vine um it's not necessarily It's certainly not difficult to do something visual like you know Skittles uh exploding rainbow and it turns into Skittles and falls into the bag or something like that. It is very challenging to to evoke real emotion and make someone cry for example in six seconds. So how do we do that? That was the kind of the the the question that I was asking. And then the figurative version is it's just talking about how do we connect with people as quickly as possible through story. Because regardless of if it's an actual six-second format, there is so much demand for our attention these days that you can't have this preamble where you lose people, right? They're going to scroll right past. You got to grab them quickly. So the sixsecond story is is basically how do we tell a story that connects with our people as quickly as possible and that is where you can use certain frameworks. So if we actually were talking about a sixsecond story it might be something like I always struggle with this until I found blank right and that's it. And that's the promp. It's basically a hook. It's it's the it's not just the hook. It does hook them. Okay, so maybe let's back up a little bit. It h it it has that hook feature, but it's not a hook meaning just an intro, if that makes sense. Some people, I think, conflate the two and just say like, first you got to have your 3se secondond hook and then you go into yada yada yada. This actually tells you act one and act three of the story, right? I always struggled with this thing blank until I found blank. And we're like, great. And what that does to the audience is they lean in. They're like, "Oh, I also struggle with that problem. I also want that outcome. How did it happen? Now you've got them." Which is kind of what you were say saying, Kevin, is like they, you know, it's a trail of breadcrumbs. Now you've got their attention. Yes, you hooked them. Now they'll lean in and say, "Oh, tell me more about that. I'm so glad you asked, Kevin." Right? So it absolutely is a hook, but it does tell the story. If you look um at the before after photo in in any magazine, right? It's just two two columns, right? But that tells the story. Again, act two isn't filled in there. It makes us want to know what it is. If it's a weight loss thing, it might be before and after. Here's, you know, uh uh what did Billy Blanks do? Um what's the uh aerobics that he did? Why am I blanking on that? Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Ty Tybo was that y'all remember that commercial? Um, yeah. So, six second story is especially with social media is like how can I in an Instagram story, a Tik Tok video, etc., etc., tell a story very quickly that connects with people and inspires them and and and and makes them want to learn more. Now, a quick word from our sponsor, Lavanta. Hey Kevin, tell us a little bit about it. That's right, Amazon sellers. Do you want to skyrocket your sales and boost your organic rankings? Meet Levant, Norman and I's secret weapon for driving highquality external traffic straight to our Amazon storefronts using affiliate marketing. That's right. It's achieved through direct partnerships with leading media outlets like CNN, Wire Cutter, and Buzzfeed, just to name a few, as well as top affiliates, influencers, bloggers, and media buyers. All in Lavant's marketplace, which is home to over 5,000 different creators that you get to choose from. So, are you ready to elevate your business? Visit get.lav.io/misfits. That's get.lav van na.io/misfits and book a call and you'll get up to 20% off Lavanta's gold plan today. That's get.lav. lavanta.io/misfits. Uh, first of all, uh, Kev, is that your stomach again? No, it's uh, I'll be right back. My my little puppy needs to go outside, so I'll be right back. All right. Okay, we can keep it going. All right. Can we talk about him when he's going? All right. Yeah, absolutely. You know what I hate when he does? Hold on. He's not one yet. Get out of here, Kevin. Come on now. Hey, puppy. Um, the third marketing misfit. Yeah, there there we go. So, I do have a question kind of going back a little bit. Yeah. And I talk a lot to brands and they tell me their brand story or their origin story. Yeah. And I just go, that's not your story and nobody's going to believe it. You're you're exaggerating everything. So, how would you describe or tell a brand to go and find their origin story? And then secondly, when do you think they should start telling it publicly? Because there's a lot of these things that just suck. That is true and that's a great question. So the thing, one of the things that irks me about brands and the the thing you're talking about like tell your brand story is people say that as if you have one brand story and which is false in in in my strong opinion. You have countless brand stories just like I have countless life stories. Now sure I have a life story but buddy you're not going to stick around to hear it all, right? That's going to take forever. So, I liken it to a television series. What's a television series that you like, Norm, that's had several seasons? Oh, 90-Day Fiance, of course. No, I'm vetoing that one. Oh, okay. Tell my wife that's one of our guilty pleasures. No, no, no, no. Uh, a serial show. Not not an episodic one. Well, I mean, those are seasons, but like uh like a Sopranos or Breaking B like a a Yeah. Why don't we just pray? Uh, Sopranos was a great series. Yeah. So, not to bash 90-Day Fiance. You'll see where I'm going though. Okay. Um, 90-Day Fiance is the the the you could you could use this metaphor with the season because those characters continue. But the point that I want to illustrate is with a show like Sopranos, it's huge, right? I can't sum up Sopranos. That was five seasons, six seasons um in in 6 seconds or 30 seconds or even 60 seconds. But there's absolutely an overall narrative, right, and a story that happens. But within that big story of all six seasons, I think it was five A and five B, each season has its own arc and they all fit together like those Russian stacking dolls, the Matroka dolls, if you're familiar with those. You remember those? So each season has its own arc, which with its own rising action, conflict, and resolution. Each episode has its own arc, which mirrors the same shape, but fits within the big one. each uh each episode, each act in each episode, each scene in each act, right? So, you just keep getting in these smaller and smaller arcs. All of those are opportunities to tell a story. Anytime where a sequence of events that created some change happened, anytime where there was some transformation and it can be very small. It doesn't have to be epic is an opportunity to tell a story. So what I say to those brands is you should be continually storytelling always always always evolving consistent to brand right so to go back to your specific question about origin story now that is one that's plucked out of all of those infinite amount of stories in your overall brand story world we'll call it right story universe that is one of them that is the beginning of it so that might be like the pilot episode right if we're talking about the Sopranos Okay. Um, for me, nailing down an origin story, which I do think is important because it tells people why you're here, is important, and that's ultimately the question that it's trying to ask. Why? Why do you exist? Now, I also think there's a little bit too much weight put on it because that's all just me mess us us us. and you it's fine to tell stories about yourself as a brand, but it's always with the objective of impacting them. So, if it's just for me to make myself look cool, those don't land well, right? If it's this funny story about myself that might make me look cool, but is really to give you an insight that's going to help you on your journey, those are the ones that we're interested in. It's always for the audience because you can't tell a story to nobody. Rain, I gotta tell you. I gotta just tell you this because I know Kevin's gonna be asking, but uh it was actually Kevin who got me hooked on 90day Fiance and Love After Lockup. I And thank you Kevin for that. Oh, you're welcome. I guess I don't know. No. Yes, you should. Uh so, so storytelling is a collaborative medium, right? Each person is needed, the story listener and the storyteller. In fact, the story listener is more important. So, I say that to say dwelling on your origin story that's just focus if it's just focusing on you is not a waste of time, but you shouldn't spend too much time doing it. And you can change it. Now, I do agree with you that you don't need to rush something out just because your marketing person told you you need an origin story and you got it out there and it's I had a series that I did on TikTok for a little while that was dragging the our story sections on the back of products that I found in the store. Like I'd just be walking around Costco and like, "Oh, here's one." And I would just make a video about it. And they're all they're all terrible. First of all, they're rarely a story. It's just like in 1947, two brothers formed this hot dog company and ever since then, we've been creating the best hot dogs in New Jersey. Like, all right, says you. You know what does that tell me? Why does that make me want yours versus the Costco versus the Kirkland brand, which is a lot cheaper? It doesn't. So, I'm going to get the cheaper ones, right? Or whatever or whatever I'm looking for. Am I looking for uh hot dogs that are souped up in protein? might be if I'm a bodybuilder. So then that that hot dog packaging should have a story that speaks to that person, right? And this goes back to what I said in the very beginning about understanding why your product or service needs to be out there. Who is it for? Right? This is the thing brands get wrong all the time and they use AI and they their their commercials look the same as every other hot dog brand. Their logo looks the same, their marketing sounds the same and we can't tell the difference. So, what are we going to normally do? Go for the cheapest one. And if that's the race that you want to be in, go ahead, my friend. So, telling a short story is much more difficult than telling a long story. Yeah. A lot of people don't realize that, I don't think, to actually getting those words right and getting that story concise can take twice or three or four times as long as in as writing out a full book or or something like that. Absolutely. And and that was a lot of the reason of writing six-second stories is that even if you're writing even if you're making a 60inute story like a film, the goal is still to get from point A to point B as efficiently as possible, right? You don't want to lose anything that's necessary, but if it's not necessary, it needs to be gone, right? So the act that you like the process that you go through and learn in the book applies no matter how long the story is you're telling because the goal is always to cut the fat and be as efficient as possible. So to cut the fat and get down to six seconds. Yeah. It's it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. Can I tell you a quick story and you critique me and tell me how I can make this story better just for an illustrative point? Yeah. So Norm was staying at my house. Um, you know the story, Norm. Uh, Norm was staying at my house. We were I already don't like it. on a He was standing in my guest room and we were doing some work on a project we're working on. And Norm is one of these guys who likes to go out at night. I mean, not go out at night, but go at night and get something to eat. You know, it's 1 2 in the morning. He gets the munchies and he likes to have some some gummy bears or a soda or some something to to to munch on. So he's in my guest guest room and he he walks out 2 or 3 in the morning, something like that, and opens up the fridge. And Norm is an ice cream lover. Ice cream is one of his favorite things to eat. So he reaches into the fridge and or opens the door and he sees in the fridge all these little individualsiz containers of ice cream. And Bluebell ice cream is a popular ice cream in Texas and they make these little vanilla ones in it. He sees one. It's got little like polka dot kind of colors and stuff on. He's like, "Oh, that's probably birthday cake ice cream." He grabs it, opens it up. you know, it's 2:00 in the morning. He's half asleep and and grabs a spoon and starts to eat it and he's like, "This is kind of weird tasting." And he and he looks at the looks at the the ice cream and he said looks and turning it around the container around. He's like, "Wait a second. Those aren't little like polka dots. Those are little pictures of like paws. This is dog ice cream." Uh, so he actually had eaten some dog ice cream that was made for dogs instead of regular ice cream. So what does Norm do? He doesn't just like spit it out and put it away. He's like, "There's no way Kevin can know about this because it's embarrassing." So, he goes to the trash and he takes it and he buries it in the trash, like buries it deep, like puts some, you know, shovels some stuff underneath it and so that it wouldn't be found. And then a couple days later, we're at dinner and he just couldn't keep it in anymore. So, he he he says, "What happens?" You were at the other end of the table. I was at the other end of the table and I heard pieces of it and then I said, "Tell it say what is it that again?" And then I could not stop laughing. It was so hilarious. So, how could I make that story better? Um, I think that's how harsh can I be, Kevin? Please no. Tear me up. Totally up. I just did off the top of my head. So, but use this for for an illustrative point. How could I make that a much more engaging or better story? So, yeah. I mean, it was entertaining. It's more of an anecdote, right? um it was entertaining. Like if you told that at the at the dinner table, like it'd get a few chuckles and that's cool. That's fine. That might be all that you're after. Again, when we're talking about storytelling here, it almost always has an objective, a reason for it, right? Now, yes, you can use storytelling just in normal communication, but that's usually to create a connection with the person listening, get a laugh, make a girl smile, whatever it might be. In business, you have a more specific objective. Um, so that one doesn't really have one except maybe maybe if it was to get a laugh. What I struggle with is like what what was really the problem that you or Norm was trying to overcome. At first, I couldn't tell if you were the character that the story was about and Norm created a problem for you by eating the ice cream or if Norm was the character. Either one's fine, but that that was something that we missed. Now, then later in the story, the a problem arose. I don't know if this was the central problem of the story of eating the ice cream that was uh the dog ice cream and that wasn't the problem. The problem was that uh he didn't want you to know about it. Right. Yeah. And why was that? Just because just embarrassed. Just embarrassed. Right. So if that's the problem forever about it. Yeah. So, if we're thinking about the story being, you know, sitting on top of a central problem we're trying to overcome, if that's it, it's introduced way too way too late. Or you can set it up a little bit like this might not work exactly with the story the way you said it, but like Kevin leaves and says, "Whatever you do, don't eat what you know, the ice cream in the fridge, and Norm might forget it or something." Again, I'm spitball. Yeah. Okay. Um or um a little hook at the beginning or something. A little setup. It's you bookend it, right? Like the ending. What? Which is what did he do? Sorry. To solve the uh like he put it into the trash and like bare put some stuff on top of on the top of the trash. Yeah. So, it's one of those stories that just like I mentioned earlier, it's just kind of like here the whole way. There's a little spike when you find out that he eats dog ice cream. Like that's going to get a reaction, right? And so you can play with that. Like I think that should be if you don't change anything else. That should be what you build it around because that's the thing that conjures up any emotion right now. The the beginning took way too long. You established you went off about Norm is this type of guy and he needs a snack. We don't need to know that unless it plays into the story, which I I know that he got a snack, but anybody can get a snack at midnight. Norm was hungry so he got a snack. I don't need to know his whole history to know that he wanted a snack when he was there. Unless, you know, there was, you know, orders not to have a snack because he was getting he was having an operation the next day, but he couldn't help himself. Right. Now, that's interesting. Keep it all keep it all relevant. Don't so the setup or the background maybe it's not so necessary. No, that's called exposition. And even in movies, you lose a little point. You lose some points when there's too much exposition that feels forced. right now. Usually that's to set up something so you know why he's the bad guy or whatever. In this case, it didn't really serve any purpose. So, I was like, "Okay, where's this going? Where's this going?" The story didn't really start until he opened the fridge. So, you could just be like, "Norm was staying at my house." And he opened the fridge and boom, get right into it. He wanted a midnight snack. So, that was that's again, you start to lose people very quickly. It's really hard to get them back, right? Because I don't know who Norm is. I don't know why I should care that he's a person who likes snacks at night. Like, you see what I'm saying? So, jump right into it. And doing that in a verbal sense, like sitting around a dinner table telling some buddies the story of the ice cream versus actually doing written in a written sense where I'm trying to Is there is there should there be a difference or is it very similar? Sure. It's they're they're different mediums, right? So, yeah, that's a very fair question and a fair point to to make there. It's like you have to work with with what you have to work with. So if you're sitting at the table and everybody knows Norm, then yeah, it might be like listen, y'all know Norm likes to snack, right? And everybody's like, "Yes, now you got him. Now it works." But you still didn't give me the history about him. You just teed it up and then you moved on, right? You move on as you you you give me just as much as I need to get to the next piece and then you go to the next piece. Any more time you spend is you're running the risk of losing me, right? You want to keep me turning the page. Keep me turning the page. Do it as quickly as possible. Uh I think it was Bill Burr that said it one time when talking about joke writing and he said you should reduce a joke down all the way to until the point that if you remove one word, one more word, the joke doesn't work. Does that make sense? And then you put that word back. So meaning reduce it all the way down to till it's it's still functional as the joke. and and lose all the rest because you don't need the fat, right? Um I do think it's funny, you know, that he made that he ate the dog ice cream. So that's what I would play with at this point. You Nancy, y'all know Nancy Dwarte from Dwarte Inc. She's a expert in presentations. She made her her fame um in a TED talk about presentations and she analyzed all the great speeches over time. uh Steve Jobs's, you know, iPhone launch, Gettysburg address, I have a dream, etc., etc. And she mentioned that each one has what's called a star moment, which is an acronym for something they'll always remember. In this story, that would have been the star moment, right? That twist where he's like, he eats this ice cream. Ooh, and I really like your setup when you're like, "Ooh, the polka dots. I bet this is funfetti." Like you, that is relevant. You're teeing them up because you're setting up an expectation and then you slam it down with the contrast of it wasn't funfetti, it was for dogs, right? That's going to get you laugh. That's the star moment. That's what you should expand it around. Now, that might mean setting up something with the dog in the beginning so we already know it's a player. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. or setting up something where Kevin uh Norm shouldn't have been eating ice cream that night, but he couldn't help himself because he loves snacks and he did it and then his punishment was it was dog ice cream. Told you you shouldn't have been eating ice cream, right? Something like that. So, not enough contrast if I had to reduce it down. Are you looking to quickly boost new Amazon product launches or scale up existing listings to reach first page positioning? The influencer platform Stack Influence can help. That's right. Stack Influence pushes high volume external traffic sales straight to Amazon listings using micro influencers that you only have to pay with your products. They've helped upandcoming brands like Magic Spoon compete with Cheerios for top category positioning while also helping Fortune 500 brands like Unilver launch their new products. Right now is one of the best times to get started with Stack Influence. You can sign up at stackinfluence.com or click the link in this video down in the description notes below and mention misfits, that's misfi, to get 10% off your first campaign. stackinfluence.com. What about on stage? I mean, one of the the some of the greatest speakers that are getting, you know, the the you know, the Navy Seal guy, what's his name that uh um Oh, Jesse um uh uh yeah, that that took uh the guy that started the jet the private jet company. I'm drawn completely. Yeah. And he's even Jesse Eisler. A lot of the best speakers, maybe this goes back to this uh uh star uh woman um Dwarte, um they they come on stage and they don't open up. They open up with a story. It has almost that it's a story about something that happened to them or it's a story about that the audience can relate to and then they go into whatever it is that they're going to be talking about and they bring it back to that story at the very end. Yeah. And close that loop. And I try I did this I tried doing that uh for about a year. I speak on a lot of stages and I I did a beginning at the end about a story about my divorce and I tied it back to business and about a buddy of mine that uh basically killed himself drinking and and I had a lot of people come to me afterwards and say that was very raw, very authentic, very open, you know what you said and I really identified with it. I love that part of your talk. So, how how can and then I So, how so how can people do this? Like when Norm uh goes on stage the next time to talk about, you know, I don't know, selling on Walmart, what what would you be your recommendation to him instead going, "All right, guys. Uh, you know, Walmart's a great place. Here's some stats. Here's some this. I'm going to show you some things." How should he maybe start that? Should he What What would be I know you don't know enough about it, but just general. Yeah. Well, what would he what what should he do when he first walked up on stage to get the audience? There's a reason why people came up to you afterwards and commented on that part. This is what this is the crux of what we're talking about today, folks. Exactly. This is emotionally connecting with people. And you do that. Listen, our whole lives, you know, people often treat it like emotional versus intellectual, and it's not. They're two sides of the same coin. They fit together. Storytelling is a way to deliver information through emotion. They're not mutually exclusive, right? So that story should in some way tie into the talk. You are going to have to deliver information. But story primes people. It gets their attention. It encourages their engagement like they're connected. And that's because there's a whole slew of things neurologically happening when you tell a story. And I can nerd out about that if you guys want me to. But the point is that they get connected on a brain level and emotionally on a on a heart level as well. And so they're listening and then you feed them the medicine. The story is the spoonful of sugar and the message is the medicine. So leading with a story is there's a reason why it's a common practice. Even the little quotes that you see at the beginning of chapters of a book, it's the same thing. It's just a to prime your brain to receive that information by evoking some emotion in you and it should lead into it. And then yes, if you come full circle, we love that because something you just said, Kevin, which is spot-on, chef's kiss, is closing the loop. This is all storytelling is is opening loops or asking questions and answering those questions or closing the loops. Another way to look at that is increasing the tension and releasing the tension. Your story about Norm and I know it was just an exercise. There was no tension. There was no contrast. There was no obstacle. There were no stakes. Why did I care? That's what we needed, right? You need something to encourage that tension and then you release it. Remember the roller coaster ride that we talked about. There is a model for speaking that sometimes I follow that I've seen I forget who said this uh that you can I mean because you you should not just tell stories at the beginning. You can use stories throughout Yeah. your presentation and you can tell the story and then you reinforce the point of that story and then you tell the audience how they apply that to their situation. And that's a cookie cutter template you can use throughout your whole presentation. Tell the story, reinforce the point of that story, and then show them how they can apply that point to their lives and then keep going. But yeah, the stories are what they're always going to come up and talk to you about. Now, they might write down the notes of those tangible takeaways that you gave them and they might actually, you know, use those and take action on those and that's great. But the things they they come up and talk to you afterwards are things they remember is that is the story. So how how do you tell some people have great stories but they just can't either they're too shy or they're too afraid or nervous about being judged or something or they just can't get the words out right. They kind of bumble around or stumble around or uh how how do those people do this or what do you recommend that they Sure. Yeah. Yeah. to actually get this down if they're not the best speaker, they're not the best pres presenter and not to just make this a a train wreck. Yeah, I got it. I got you, man. This is something I actually invented. Um it's really going to help people. It's nobody's even heard of this concept before. It's called practice. Ah, dude. I mean, I don't know what to tell that person. Oh, I feel this. I feel that. I mean, listen, I have empathy and I would be I would handle them delicately, but it's like, how do you get good at anything? Like, I don't know why I can't play basketball on the collegiic level, right? Yeah. You got to practice. I mean, so for I mean, I know that's easy to just say, and I won't be that flippant about it, but you have to have quantity first before you can ever get to quality. And this is what limits people is they think, uh, I can't tell a good story. what am I even doing? So, they don't do it. Nobody started yesterday and told a good story. Even that guy that you know that's so entertaining. Yeah, they might have been funny, but the good storytellers that we talk about on stage, they've been doing it forever. They've been doing it forever. Those speeches I alluded to that Nancy Dwarte analyzed, that wasn't Martin Luther King's first speech. You know, it just takes practice like anything. It's reps. And the sooner you get going, the sooner you can get that information, that the data that you need to understand how you can get better. But it's just like anything. How do you build muscle? You train it. How do you learn to play piano? You you learn the scales and then you practice every day for an hour for like three years and then you're okay. You know, I mean, that's all it is. So, first to you got to get over that hump of I'm afraid. And you got to understand that those people that you look up to that are good at whatever you want to be good at aren't superhuman. They don't have superpowers. They've just been doing it longer. That's it. And storytelling is innately human. This is something we are all designed to do. Oh, I'm not a good storyteller. Yeah, that's cuz you've never really done it, right? We can tell stories because we know what we care about. This is no other animals telling stories. We are the only ones, right? This is how we communicate as people for hundreds of thousands of years. This is how we communicate by sharing stories. As soon as we began being able to have any kind of language, we were using narrative. This happened over there. Don't go over there. You might get eaten by a bear. Right? That's a story, right? So, we've been doing this for a long, long time. And if people feel like they can't do it or can't do it well, they just haven't done it enough. You got to get out there and take rep after rep after rep after rep. Then come back and look at what you learned and what you should do differently and then you improve. It just takes time. Now you've got the six-second stories, you've got your podcast, the story uh telling lab where storytellers come on, right? And they just you just kind of talk with them. Do you have any courses that you you offer? I do have a course out there. I I I didn't sunset it completely, but I don't um it's it is um you know, helping people uncover their story for their personal brand, which has kind of always been my thing. Uh but I don't really market it too much anymore. I do more one-on-one consulting, fractional work with brands, uh and speaking gigs. Um so I usually come in and work with brands. video production is still my primary um my primary business. Um so a lot of times I'm working with brands and I might be doing workshops in in their company and then also helping them with a documentary series or something like that. Hey Kevin King and Norm Ferrar here. If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits, thanks for listening this far. Continue listening. We got some more valuable stuff coming up. Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify. Make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of the Marketing Misfits. Have you subscribed yet, Norm? Well, this is an old guy alert. Should I subscribe to my own podcast? Yeah, but what if you forget to show up one time? It's just me on here. You're not going to know what I say. I'll I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair, too. We'll just You can go back and forth with one another. Yikes. But that being said, don't forget to subscribe, share it. Oh, and if you really like this content, somewhere up there there's a banner. Click on it and you'll go to another episode of the Marketing Misfits. Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm. All right. So, we're at the top of the hour and I always ask one question or we always ask one question of our misfit. Do they happen to know a misfit? I know lots of misfits, buddy. Um, in the marketing context. Yes. Uh, yeah. I I would say and to answer your question about the courses. However, I have tons of free content online on my on my social media and as you said, the storytelling lab, the podcast, which is where I'm going to go for the the misfit question because I have great guests on every week. And most recently, if I had thinking about the the the misfit, I had on the owner of Cali Cali Barbecue in San Diego. His name is Shawn Walchef. and also the owner of Cali Barbecq Media. This is why it's important for you guys. Um Sean created a barbecue restaurant 17 years ago. Then he started creating content, telling his stories and has a several podcast and now he's created a media empire on top of that. Still got the successful restaurant, but interviews people like Shaquille O'Neal now on his podcast. like killing it with several uh mostly restaurant or entrepreneurbased shows and is so inspiring because I was just like how do you I mean I know I know the restaurant business and how arduous and timeconuming it is. So my main question for him was how do you work a successful restaurant that going on 20 years, right? That is certainly successful and a media company. Um so he's got a lot to say about how to continue to share your story in a way that brings people back to your space and one hand feeds the other. the company, the the the barbecue restaurant is continuing to be successful because the media company is growing and becoming successful. And I just thought that was a really cool marriage of um of his two passions. Multi-misfit. Yeah, multi misfit. Yeah, Sean Walchef. He's he's awesome. Very good. So, thank you so much. Now, how do people get a hold of you? So, I always uh give my mother credit for this. There are very few Rain Bennett in the world and none of them um are really really public facing to my knowledge. There was one time an 11-year-old girl that I got in a fight with on Instagram over who was the real Rain Bennett. Uh but I digress. Uh so I say that to say Google Rain Bennett and and I I'll come up quickly. Uh rainbennett.com. The Storytelling Lab is the podcast. We um are Oh, we're about to have our 200th episode. Um, so we've been going at it for a long time. Amazing people, amazing writers and marketers and entrepreneurs have been on that show. Um, something that's been uh that I'm very grateful for, all free. And um, you can you can watch those videos or listen to those shows. And if you want to reach out to me or your brand is interested in reaching out to me, um, rainbennett.com is the easiest place. I have an upcoming book called Cso on the go which is talking about the chief storytelling officer which ties back norm to all these things we were talking about about establishing your brand narrative like the Soprano show and understanding how to weave that narrative through all your communications and engagement. So internally and externally everybody is unified through the overall brand story and now there is a role called the chief storyteller uh that does that but most companies can't afford that role. So this book is going to be a manual or kind of a guide book for those companies to uh to still carry out those tasks. All right. Very good. Awesome. That's awesome. Well, appreciate you coming on, Rain. Appreciate you. This is fun, man. Appreciate you doing this. This was this was a blast. Yeah, I agree. I appreciate y'all. Now I'm going to do my next thing. There's only two things I have to do here. Remove you again. All right. Thank you. Bye, guys. I got I got I got to work on my stories, Norm. What's that? I got to work on my stories. Yeah. Or you know what? There is one other thing I can do to help you with your stories. Tell me more. You know, I could just go and not really have you tell me any stories and I could just run this solo. What do you think about that? I think that uh would be pretty good. It saves me a little bit of work. Who saves me a little bit of work. Don't don't bite the hand that feeds you, right? Yes, exactly. Um that that was that was good. I like that episode. Um that was that was good stuff. Uh as you can see here on the Misfits, we cover it all. So, it's not just, you know, straight up traditional stuff. We cover the storytelling. We cover domains. We cover AI. We cover uh affiliate marketing. We cover everything. So, if you want to know more about this really fascinating world of marketing, check out all of our past episodes because we got a ton of them up on where are they at, Norm? You can find them on YouTube and Tik Tok. But on YouTube, we have just created um a long- form channel called Marketing Well, it's just Marketing Misfits podcast. And if you want those really great little snippets, 3 minutes and under, we've got Marketing Misfits shorts or clips clips. That's right. Uh and then we have here we're on Spotify, we're on Apple. Uh and like you said, we're on YouTube and uh the what's the talk tickers? The the clock one. What's the name of that? Yeah, that that's I think it's called Tik Tok. It's a Yeah, it's a little small platform. We have We have a few things on there. So, check us out there. Look for our newsletter coming soon. Marketing Misfits newsletter uh at marketingmisfits uh No, it's misfits.news, I think it is, right? It's going to be a misfits.news. So, check that out. We may may even have a story or two for you in there. You just just never know. Might have one. But hey, we're here every Tuesday, right, Nor? Yes, sir. Every Tuesday, new published. All right. So, uh, subscribe, hit that like button, leave us a comment, forward this this episode to a friend if you liked it, and check out the rest of our channel. But until then, we will see you again next week. Ciao. See you later. [Music]