She Built a Fortune 500 Skincare Brand From $0

You know, it's a funny life to be able to just have an idea and jump into it. Like, there are no rules. The fact that I have a Fortune 500 company, that's crazy. My husband and I, we we barely know what we're doing. We started this company with our own credit cards. We just own the company. It's just the two of us. How did you work with the manufacturer to come up with that unique formulation? We come from the hit your list. We are email crazies and we don't even have tons. is like maybe we only have like 10,000 people and yet we will make a couple million from our email list. You're watching Marketing Misfits with Norm Ferrar and Kevin King. Mr. King, Senor Ferrar, how are you? How be you? How be me? Uh be me is fine. How about you? I'm I'm I'm good. I'm good. But I'm down here in the warm of Texas. You're up there in the bitter cold of uh of uh Toronto. Uh freezing at what did you say it was? 27 24°. Yeah. No, it's 20 today. 20. So what's that in uh 70? What's that in American? What's that in American? American. I think that's 68 70 around there. Well, so that's a that's a Mediterranean tropical climate. Yeah, absolutely. You should be happy. That's that's that's like and that's why I don't live in the Mediterranean. That's easier to have your olive oil and your little bread baguettes and uh and uh some hummus and you should be good to go. So, hey, before we get into everything today, uh we've been spending a lot of time on something really cool and uh people you guys are going to hear about this a little bit more, but uh CMS, you know, let's just talk a bit about CMS and that's the collective mindsciety and how it got started and what we're doing. Yeah. So, Collective Minds start society started in 2022 when Norman and I were at a mastermind event in Paris and there's a lot of this is a high ticket mastermind. A lot of really good excuse me really good cigars. I know two uh really good speakers, but we found that the best content came uh at night because at this castle, we were actually in a castle just outside of Paris. They had a little uh courtyard and in the courtyard you could actually do a a real bonfire like with a stack of wood and put put it on there and we would stay out there nights till sometimes 2 or 3 in the morning smoking cigar having a a drink of wine whatever your whatever your uh vice may be and the best stuff came out of that and Norm's like and I were like why don't we do an event that's like this where there's no presentations there's no classroom stuff it's just people enjoying each other and uh sitting around a campfire telling personal stories, telling business stories, telling tactical stuff, whatever whatever comes out of it and making relationships. And so we started CMS and we did the first event was during the F1 in Austin. Second one we did a train ride across the Canadian Rockies this year in November, November 6th to the 10th. Uh and this is actually where we met our guest. We were in Tampa uh and scouting out what we're going to do uh November 6th to 10th and we went to a lunch with one of our mutual friends hook uh did a lunch hunt and we ended up being our guest today on the show. But we we actually are going to do a cigar weekend. So in Tampa and people were like Tampa, why of all places Tampa? Tampa is the cigar capital of the world. A lot of people don't realize that it's more cigars are manufactured there than in Cuba. It's a bigger culture than than in Miami. It's the place to be if if you're into that that cigar culture, which is a cool culture because Norm and I, we can go anywhere in the world. And we've met some of the best people actually at events, not at the event, not in the the mixer or the welcome party, the event, but Norm and I going out and like, "Hey, where can we smoke a cigar tonight after dinner?" And we're just going out of the hotel and, you know, sitting wherever the hotel allows you to smoke. and other people come out like, "Oh, you we smoke cigars, too. Do you mind if we join you?" And you almost you have an instant camaraderie, an instant bond, and we've made some really good business relationships out of that. Several. It's an instant bond, isn't it? Yeah, it's an instant. It's like an unspoken word. And just smoking cigars is just a chill thing to do it. I don't I don't know what it is, but it it's an instant instant thing. And so, that's what we're doing in uh in Tampa. So, we're doing 10 different cigar lounges, I think it is, or nine cigar lounges, plus another one where we can smoke on the balcony at the Tampa Club. Doing the Tampa Club. Doing a sunset cruise across St. Petersburg. I don't know if it's St. Petersburg or Tampa Tampa Bay, whatever that's called there, that piece of water. Uh, and and uh doing uh some really good dinners and so it's an entire weekend. So, if you're interested in in learning more about that and joining us, we only have 20 spots. Uh 19 technically, I think it is, but uh call it 20 spots. Uh you can go to collectivemindsocciety.com and see a sample of the schedule and some of the details and uh and apply to come join us and we'd love to have you. It's a mix of people from all kinds of walks of life, e-commerce and other business mostly business people. So it's a very good a good highle smart uh cool and casual crowd. Uh it's going to be a lot of fun. You know, I want to just kind of keep on this for a second. not so much marketing misfits, but just what we did. And it's something that you're very good at. And this also just provides the value, the extra value that you always have in a lot of your events is that spending the time to scope out what we're going to do. Scope out the 15 different cigar lounges that we went to to pick the select few. Scope out the hotels, the different restaurants. And it's so bloody important. And that's how and we we talk about marketing misfits. That's a misfit deal because I can guarantee you that most people that are putting on events are not doing that. And we spent the time to go and do that and call ahead and we went everywhere and and you know it takes extra time. after expert and then we end up meeting like we had a lot of good business meetings along the way there too and including meeting our guest today on the podcast who's her story is not a quick story either. I mean she's crushing it right now on uh a beauty brand that she's built and when when I when we met her I was like so you do a beauty brand you know there's a lot of people doing beauty brands but I was like so um what's the name of it? She said she told me uh the the name in your face and she's like look I'm in your face. This is me right here. And I was look I was looking I'm looking looking at her and I was like so um you're using the product. This clearly works because she was stunningly beautiful. And then she later told me her age. I was like you you you're lying girl you lie. And she's like no this is how old I am. I'm like there's no way. So this is a product that actually works but it wasn't an overnight success. I think she started building an audience I think in like 2007 or eight or something like that posting on Facebook and then she migrated that to I don't know Tik Tok or Instagram whatever it was another social media platform and then then she was able to use that audience or that following that she had had created and build a brand out of it that's now highly successful and she's doing uh really good marketing with live events and all kinds of stuff that I'm sure we'll get into um that uh it's an amazing story. All right. So, our guest today is Denise Duff. And Denise, let's have you get in our face. There we go. Love it. I love it. How you doing, Denise? I'm on Q. I'm on Q. I listen. Perfect. Denise, tell us a little bit about your background. Sure. Well, you did a really great job there, Kevin, because you're right in the fact that in 2007208 when Facebook came about when iPhones got a phone on it, I started sharing my life. I didn't Wait, when iPhones got a phone on it? You mean when they got a camera? I'm just kidding. Oh my gosh. Wait, wasn't it always a camera? That That's what this is? Yeah. I thought this was like one of those things you put on your skin like massages. Not working. See, at the time I was an actress and a photographer, so I was always carrying cameras and I would document my life um in between doing acting jobs and um and I would photograph many clients, different campaigns as a photographer. Um so I've been on both sides of the camera a lot. So, of course, when when uh very high resolution version came this small, it made it so much easier for me to share and to photograph. And so, I kind of came in this world of of um social media easily because number one, I'd made a living as an actress, so I'm not afraid to be in front of a camera and and being, you know, I didn't need a script. I didn't care if I was made up or not made up, but also using um using imagery to know that that's how you get attention and and making something um interesting for people to watch and not wasting people's time was always a real big thing that I wanted to and it was usually health related things that I was cooking. I'm Italian from New York living in LA and I just would share things and it had nothing to do with I had nothing to sell um but I just enjoyed creating this big family because I I don't have any siblings so I started to get a family and um and then by like 201617 um a lot of my friends started selling on Amazon and one of my dearest friends um Athena um who you know who introduced desk came and visited me in Manhattan and said, "You need to sell something and you need to augment your salary as an actress." And I'm like, "You're right. Um, but there isn't anything I want to sell." And she's like, "Well, this cream that you give away." Well, I had created a cream with a botanical um chemist about two years prior. Small little thing, me, her, I'd give it as gifts. She's like, "That's what you need to sell." And I thought, "But I can't do it on a large scale." and she's like, "Whatever scale you can do it on." So, we started with 300 of them. And then I had to create the name. And I came up with some really cool names, Mediterranean blah blah blah, you know, Sicilian something. And I told a couple friends of that and um and they were like, "Those are so stuffy." And then one dude said, "Denise, you're such an in-your-face kind of girl." And I'm like, "Oh, what am I going to call it? In your face cream?" And he went, "Yes, you are." I called my husband who had a a website marketing company and I said, "Is in your face cream like.com available?" And he paused and he paused and he went, "Nope, I just bought it for 19 bucks." And and that's how it started. And then we wound up having to buy in your face skin care from someone for like five grand. She wasn't doing anything with it. And I had never planned on doing a whole line. I just it was just this cream that helped my very dry face and I put it out on Facebook. I did a post, you know, one of those posts that uh that that you do. I'm doing a thing, right? That's that's the the hip. I'm doing a thing. And um and it sold out in a weekend. And at the time the cream was $75 a jar. It's a little more now there. We've improved and um but at $75 a jar to sell out 300 of them to just your friends. I was like, "Okay, let's see if strangers can buy it." And then then st then I we put like $20 on an ad and we boosted it. That was frightening. And then $100 and then and then strangers started buying it. And about a year later, I thought, "Okay, I I guess I guess I I am able to sell a thing and not just my art as an actress, as a photographer." And um but what what I found really worked was I needed to stay connected with it as the personality and that's what people liked. They they liked knowing the founder behind it. I I think that's so important. Uh what about the product itself? Is it ju is it not just is it a moisturizing cream? Yes, it's a we we take the the main thing you guys were uh talking Italian and Mediterranean and and hummus. It's almost like hummus for your face. Hummus for your I wonder if that's available. Yeah, let me see. Not anymore, Norm. Because I just bought it, but not hummus foryouface.com club. Let's take it, Norm. Sorry. Um, we take olive oil and we soak different botanical herbs for 30 days. So, it's it's kind of like wine in that things are marinating, they're fermenting, and and so it's a very alive formula. And that was my thing because as an actress in Hollywood, um, having done commercials, I see what goes into ingredients. And my mom raised me to read labels. And she was this New York Italian hippie in the 70s. And we were not allowed to buy anything that had sugar more than um higher than the fourth number on the ingredient deck. And so, right, if it was one, two, or three, we couldn't buy it. And so, I was always taught to read labels. And um and then you know I went to UCLA and I studied um chemistry and I studied uh Latin of all things. Those two classes and then I wound up bailing and going to NYU and studying photography and directing. But those two classes chemistry and Latin um helped me years later which I didn't realize to read labels in skin care and to be able to go oh damethone that's a silicone silicone that's rubber cement. Oh, that's the first ingredient which is comprising 90% of this formula. That's about 10 cents, you know. And so I've been able to and and acryates acrylic. Oh, acrylic is a plastic. Something that says acrylate is plastic derived. So it I got to kind of jump to the head um of the line in the area as a as a formulator. Um and then also understanding advertising from the entertainment side of the world. Um, and then just being Italian and being passionate and really and being a freaking woman who started this business at 52 years old. I'm 59 now. I'm 59. I'll be 60 in a month. And I wanted products that worked. Um, because I I I'm more than halfway over. I'm more than halfway done, guys. I am done. Stick a fork in. You need some We need you around longer. This takes some life. Hey, Norm, you'll love this man. I talked to a seller the other day doing 50k a month, but when I asked them what their actual profit was, they just kind of stared at me. Are you serious? That's kind of like driving blindfolded. Exactly, man. I told them, "You got to check out Sellerboard. This cool profit tool that's built just for Amazon sellers. It tracks everything like fees, PPC, refunds, promos, even changing cogs during using FIFO. Aha. But does it do FBM shipping costs too? Sure does. That way you can keep your quarter 4 chaos totally under control and know your numbers because not only does it do that, but automates your PPC bids. It forecasts inventory. It sends review requests and even helps you get reimbursements from Amazon. Now, that's like having a CFO in your back pocket. You know what? It's just $15 a month, but you got to go to sellerboard.commisfits. sellerboard.com/misfits. And if you do that, they'll even throw in a free two-month trial. So, you want me to say go to sellerboard.commisfits and get your number straight before your accountant loses it? Exactly. All right. Just in your face, Norm. That's the secret. Just in your face. You You need Just in your beard. Just in your beard, Norm. Just in your beard. New product line. Just in your beard or just in your hips. Just in your hip. So you you were act was it Days Over Lives or something? It's one of the bigger shows, right? I was in Days O Lives and Young and Restless. I was on Young and Restless longer, you know. Um I played McKenzie's mom, Amanda. Um, and then I I'm also um I I I get a lot of fan mail for um a vampire series I did called Subspecies with Full Moon Entertainment. So, I'm kind of a big deal during Halloween. And um yeah, you know, I do I go to autograph conventions, you know, people people pay $40 for my autograph, but I've auto I'm tattooed on a couple of people's arms and legs. Um, it's it's, you know, it's a funny life to be able to just have an idea and jump into it. Like there are no rules. You know, the fact that I have a Fortune 500 company, we were number 428 last year, that's crazy. My husband and I, we we barely know what we're doing, you know. Um, we have no we we started this company with our own credit cards and um and we it's just the we just own the company. It's just the two of us with, you know, a staff of 10. We do our own marketing. I do my own photography and imagery. We work on we do our own packaging. I, you know, I make little inspirational quotes that are different on every box because I can. Um, every single box is different. Every single box has a different set of So, you're doing print print on demand packaging basically. It's a customized print on demand packaging. No, no, no, no. I mean every product. I mean, oh, every product. Okay. All right. All right. Creams have um and I think it's 12 two to three word inspirational phrases. So, we have to come up with 12 of them every time we make a new product. So, how many products are in the skew in the line? There's about Yeah, there's 21, you know, like whatever. Not including a headband and a makeup brush or a, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So, did you have the idea of brand expansion when you first had the moisturizing cream going? No, I I'm I'm an artist, right? I'm a I'm a photographer. I'm a storyteller. I'm an actress. I did not plan to because that to me means business and computer and desk and death, right? Like that's what in my mind what all of that meant. And um and it was my husband who's the real like nerdy he loves a spreadsheet, you know. Um I don't I don't like any of that stuff. And but he's the one that just kept, you know, you you got to have that ying and yang. You got it's really such a two- terminal universe when you're small and starting a company. And you've got to have someone I found that has different strengths, you know, and um uh and you know, he believed in things more than I did, but I was passionate about formulas and I was passionate about women um really getting what they're paying for because that's where I felt betrayed as a woman b spending money on something and I know what's in it. And when they say all these things, I know it's BS because I also know it's a topical. I know there's so many other things that go into it. And so my passion is is really transforming women's skin with super concentrated ingredients that take a very long time to curate. And no, they're not $12 items, but they're also not $5 or $600. And he's the one that ensures that we make a a little profit at the end of the day so we could keep the lights on. So, are you just in ret are you just going direct to consumers right now? Are you doing any are you in a Sephora or any of those type of No, it it was tough especially with the cream because it can separate if it sits very long time in a in a heated warehouse. You know, it's kind of like um that that we don't put those emulsifiers. There's certain plastics that you put in that just keep the formula from separating. And not that it it disrupts the actual activives, but it just may not look as good and someone's got to stir it, you know. And um and if you're paying $15, you don't mind storing it because you got it from a flea market or a a natural botanical fair. But if you're paying $100 for our cream, I don't want women to have to go, "Whoa, what's that oil on the top?" And um and so we we used to do Amazon Prime with our cream for the first month, but there warehouses were either too cold or too hot. Of course, now I'm learning that I can I can cater to that. But we didn't know that back then. And so we still sell on Amazon, but it all comes from our warehouse where we can control the environment and we can control the whole shipping experience. So, I've got cute little notes on our packaging, you know, on the inside. Um, I write, you know, I have these little notes that are sort of pre-written and then I and then we put the person's name on it. By the way, I do have blank notes, but while you were talking, I had to write this. The cigar The cigar is is in the golf. Is the new Oh, the new golf is Oh, is the new golf cigar is a new golf. Ah, I love it. I love it. I was listening to you guys. I I see. I I love it. Uh, so speaking of that packaging, I mean, how important a lot of people skimp on the packaging. I know when it comes to beauty products, they don't skimp quite as much, especially at a $100 price point, but you're taking it not just pretty perfumeish bottle type of packaging, but you're you're cut you're making it personal with these quotes and with these notes and stuff. How important do you think that is to your success and to your branding? Uh because a lot of people don't take the effort to do that. It it re I I I wish it wasn't appreciated as much because I could save a few dimes with every order. And yet just when I feel like why are we doing all this? I get another slew of DMs and emails or some influencer talking about like their cream. It's so good. But guys, get this. you get this custom letter to you. Look at how cute the box. Like, it's nuts how much people talk about it. And and even if I have some friends that want to do a review on it, I literally tell them, you don't have to talk about the box. You don't have to talk about the cute note or the little bag that the cream like I actually just get right to what is it doing for your skin. You're like, dang it. I'm a chemist and talk about what I put together here and what it does while you're talking about my stupid little box. like like because me personally like it's nice and it's fluff but I just want to know that it's going to do something for me you know of course I'm an artist and I like that presentation but I was amazed at how many people spend you know whatever if they have five minutes they want to do a review and four minutes is just talking about the unboxing I'm like all right already like you know but that's that's key I I I like talking about retail packaging or just packaging in general and what you can do. Forget the box, forget the bottle, but the little things. So, it could be the colored bottles, it could be the matte finish, it could be the the the notes. There's tons of little things. And this is all psychological. When people open up and they pay, let's say it's a hundredx. Yeah. Well, that note made it that extra $25 that they would spend on it. I know, right? Sitting right in there. I mean, even even our our freebies, you get a little sample if you do a first time order. I don't want to give you a little packet, a little plastic packet. You get this babies. You get this. Like, this is this is our free little discovery size. Is it a pain in the ass to fill this and buy it and put it to Yes. But does it make women happy? Does it make them go give them enough to experience it to then become a customer for life? Heck yeah. You know, you don't tell them about that when they buy. It's a surprise. I mean, they may send an influencer talking about it, but it's a surprise. It's so that when they get like, "Oh, what is this?" and oh, gift for you or whatever. Yeah. And they're like, "Oh my gosh, it really is. It's a Oh my gosh." You know, and that's I love I I I would jump into every box, you know. This is the the little thing that it comes. I would I I want to be in the box with every customer. You know, inside of the the cream, we have a little note card, and it I think I showed it to you. I don't have one right here, but it says, "Yay, we were strangers 10 seconds ago, and now we're connected by our love of 100% natural, highly effective skinare." Right. So, I I communication. Where does this come from? Did you Did you someone inspire you to do this? Is it your husband's marketing background? Is it something that you saw another product do or you just woke had a dream and like we got to do this? Uh where did this where did this come from? I it really I think it comes from my grandparents who my whole life have been so loving and complimentary and passionate. I just come from a very um loving complimentary everything I did in to my grandmother and my grandfather and my aunt my uncle was the most beautiful thing and and complimenting people and telling them how wonderful and lovely they are is something I I took for granted. I thought everyone had that in life until you sort of grow up and you meet other people and you see what's sitting on them and how they don't think they're lovely. And I photographed tons of thousands of women. I have photographed thousands of women. You know, I've made probably $2 million just as a headshot photographer in my 20s, 30s, and 40s. Like that was my waitressing job as an actress. And and I was paid well to photograph people because I I bring the best out in them. Because you I can Photoshop and fix a tooth. I can pull 10 pounds off of you by pushing your shoulders down and liquefy, you know? But what I can't Photoshop is that confidence in your eye. And so I've just had this love of bringing out the best in someone and and by complimenting them and finding out what's great about them. And so if I'm going to sell skin care, I can't not have that part of me be a part of it because that's all I am, you know. Well, in photography too, it's in the details. A lot of uh it's not anybody can compos. It's in the details. I mean, I can I example I gave is me and my brother were on a trip in New Zealand 15 years ago staying on the exact same ledge side by shouldertosh shoulder photographing this beautiful valley. He takes a picture on his his camera or phone or whatever it was at the time and then I take the exact same picture and they're completely different because of composition of where I position things because of details of shadows of knowing how to like oh the sun is coming this way so I need to move it this way a little bit. He just took it. It's the same thing in business. And so you that I think that photography creative background is subconsciously playing a major role in everything that you're doing here. fully aware of it. Fully aware. Okay. Fully aware, but also it's inherent in who you are. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, of course, it's not a secret that, you know, I've got some stuff here, but it's cozy back, you know, but and it's well lit from the front, so I don't look haggarded. like it's all correct and and I know how to do it to and and it's it's effortless when you understand that but it's what impinges so that your communication actually reaches the audience with the way you intended it to. Let's go back to not even the packaging. Let's go back to the beginning when you were trying to create this formula. How did you come up with it? Did you how did you work with the manufacturer to come up with that unique formulation? You know, I I'm a big fan of tea and you know, my mom in the 70s would actually um it was kombucha, but we didn't know it was kombucha. She called it mushroom water because it's that slippery thing and it was in a pot and it was in the cabinet. And um that the idea of fermentation and ironically, we didn't drink wine growing up. Um, but my mother was very big into soaking and tinctures and herbal infusions. And so knowing that you get the most out of something when you can pull all those antioxidants out of it as opposed to stick the tea bag in, take it out, and now you've got slightly brown water, but you don't have any of the nutrition in it. And that was the thing. If I if I'm going to put something on, I want it to be filled with nutrition. I wanted to have some anti-aging. I didn't want it to just be coconut oil and hoba oil because go buy koba oil, go to the, you know, the health food store. I wanted something that had some science like CoQ10 and DMAE and alphalapoic ac certain things that I knew really helped to stimulate the skin, but I wanted the base of it to be um I compare it to, you know, you could eat iceberg lettuce and it's not going to kill you, but it's got no nutrition, right? It's just kind of like water. Or you can kind of pack down some spinach and kale and and and don't use those examples. I know. I heard you talking about green and I was like, "Oh, yeah. Norm doesn't do green." Sorry. You were just my husband. My Well, actually, my husband puts it after we've been married 36 years. So, for the first 25 years, zero vegetables, and now at least I get him to put it in a blender, drink it, and get it over with. And then he's potato chips and sandwich. The only green I'll do are Claro cigars. That's the ones that have the green tobacco. Not even pickle. He'll do a pickle on his burger and call that a green. Yeah. Oh, there we go. There you go. You got a pickle there. Don't say my husband never helped you with anything. So, yes, it really came from wanting to to make sure that everything that was in there was something that was uh body recognizable, skin recognizable, and no cheap fluff. like what if money was no option? What would you want to put on your face? And when people say, you know, it's healthy, it's good if you're pregnant or if you're nursing. And I always had that concept of like, wouldn't you always want to put stuff on your body that would be good for if you were a nursing mother? Because your whole life your why wouldn't you want to treat your own pancreas the way you would want to treat your a baby fetus, you know, in your body? So that concept of like well I'm pregnant so I can only use clean as opposed to I'm not pregnant I can have crap right so that that standard I kept that pregnant standard I'm always pregnant I'm in my mind I'm always carrying I'm always with child so if this ferments does the shelf life is it's what 90 days or or less or something I mean well there's the business person in me because that would be insane right I'd a pilgrim, you know, or we wouldn't have made the fortune that the ink 500. Um there are um uh there's a couple there's enzymes in there and there there are clean um there are clean preservatives that are used in food that that because if if it's got bacteria, that's not good for anybody. So, we've made sure to have preservation and enzyatic preservation systems that that are clean but absolutely keep bacteria from from going in. What's up everybody? Your good old buddies Norm and Kevin here and I've got an Amazon creative team that I want to introduce you to. That's right, Kevin. It's called the House of Amz and it's the leading provider in combining marketing and branding with laser focus on Amazon. Hey, Norm. They do a lot of really cool stuff if you haven't seen what they do, like full listing, graphics, premium A+ content, storefront design, branding, photography, renderings, packaging design, and a whole lot of other stuff that Amazon sellers need. Yeah. And guess what? They have nine years active in this space. So, you can skip the guesswork, trust the experts, there's no fees, there's no retainers. You pay per project. So, if you want to take your product to the next level, check out House of AMZ. That's houseofamz.com. House of AMZ. Prior to the coming on to the podcast today, uh, we were just talking about your sample pack and I'm kind of curious that you've got 21 or 22 different products and then you have your sample pack. How many people just go out there and buy that sample pack? Well, we have we're releasing it tomorrow. Oh, there you go. We're lit right now. We're making a landing page. Like, it's crazy what's going on here. We're act this this they were these the this comes in there's like there's this part which just arrived from Uline today. Um the box and the insert just arrived this morning. We are all here folding it. I just been folding this during lunch, pushing the inserts in. And right now, we're in there filling each individual with se with little bags, little squeeze tubes. So, we're we're creating all of these. Of course, I had to do a little handwritten note. Well, handwritten, but a communication again because I always want to be I want to pop out of every product. So, the point with this, I filmed a video of me showing how to use them and then narrated it. And when you um click on it might have even been you Kevin at that lunch that said get that little QR code so that they make it right in the front so that they can see it. And so when they go to it there'll be a little video saying congratulations. Now I'm going to show you how to use it. So you you've already been helping me, Kevin. Oh awesome. I'm glad somebody listens to me, Norm. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody listens to me, Norm. I won't, but he does. So, so you're you're putting these you don't have a fulfillment place doing this. You're putting these together. Do you do that with all the all the SKUs or do you manufacture right there in your So, you're getting I think you told me New Mexico or somewhere is where the original that's where the original cream the bulk of that and then we do all the other, you know, you're doing all your own tubing and and uh what do you call it? Glass filling or whatever that process is called, dude. Yes. Oh, wow. And how come you decide? Is that for a quality control reason? Is that for a cost reason? Is that for It's cost. Look. See, they're making them right there. Oh, wow. And And here is I don't know. Look. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. And then here's my Tik Tok area. And here's where I the green screen. Okay. I mean, it's it's actually I pull I pull this over and then I do have my little rolling and then this is where I uh where I say, "Hey, for five hours and and do my um do my TikTok and and um and all my all my live selling." We've got some lights here that are up on the ceiling and I pop those on. Um Yes. So, you have you have multiple channels that you're selling. One is right there on Tik Tok. The other What what are your other channels? Well, we um we do I I broadcast at the same time. I broadcast I know this is very un um people probably don't walk around. I have two I have um I have three iPads. Well, I have a phone and two iPads. And then we have a big screen that displays the Tik Tok bigger. It makes it easier to read because Tik Tok has got the shop so people can immediately buy and then we but I still have Instagram and Facebook running and I give them a a special code for them to go to our site because there is no um there is no shop for Facebook or shop for Instagram. They have to go to our homepage Facebook marketplace and tie that in. Facebook Marketplace, I think, has a way to tie it into uh to the chat, right? I mean, there you can order right on there, which then ties into your your Shopify or whatever WooCommerce or whatever you're using, right? I think. But yeah, but anyway, um yeah, that um but so are you when you're doing these, so you said you're doing five hours every Wednesday night. Yeah. Is that is it just you or do you have some guys managing managing the chat and checking the lighting and everything? Yes, I have my guy Anthony sitting next to me and he does things like he pops up if I start talking about something, he pops that up so that it's it's shown, right? And then we do a giveaway like every hour we'll do one giveaway and so he does the you don't have to like if you're starting out, you absolutely can do it on your own. Of course, it's it gets easier when you've got someone, but you literally can just go, "Okay, guys, hold on. I'm going to set up the giveaway." Okay, good. There's the giveaway. All right. You just have to um you know, make sure you're joining me and you'll you'll enter the giveaway. And Tik Tok sends out Tik Tok picks the winner. Tik Tok, you know, you mail it out to the to it. It it does it all for you. You don't have to pick a winner. Um and we ship all from here. All of our Tik Tok orders um we fill fulfill here. And we just have to be careful about not talking. We you don't if you're if you're recording from Tik Tok, they don't want you to talk about go to my website. So what you say is go to our home. Here's the code for our home because the algorithm doesn't like you to say go to my website. It doesn't want you take um directing people off of Tik Tok. So that's been a bit of a dance. There's been a few times we get a little violation. They may knock you off and we have to shut down and come back up. You know what? Well, they do that in real time. They knock you off in real time. They knock you off in real time. Yeah. Oh, okay. So, they slap your hand and put you in timeout. Huh. That's right. That's right. And but and and the I can do that with Kevin, too. It's just like that. You hit the right button on that one, didn't you, Norm? I want you to hit I want you to hit that button that tickles my butt in my chair, but you didn't hit that one. So Oh, no. There we go. All right. He's enjoying the tickle. Stop it. Stop it. No. How was it? You just can't say anything to Rated, but you can have the experience. Yeah. Yeah. Wait till you see the other button. Kevin, I want to go back to that sample pack. Oh, I love that you want to because we're about to launch this. We're going to launch it. I came up with this idea this morning if we could launch it on Tik Tok first and my husband's head went. So, tomorrow night, we're just gonna We got 200 We only got 200 boxes uh FedEx from China. Um the next will come in in two weeks. We'll be able to blast those 200 out on TikTok. But but it's it's something that a lot of brands don't think about. You have to have a few products, but I I love Labau. And Shantel 33, by the way, Labau. Yeah. And what do you do with Labau? If you want to get that full experience, you buy the sample packs and then you figure out what you want. And this is where a lot of brands don't understand that you don't give it away. People are buying it. I buy little bau samp s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s sample pack, you What do you pay for their sample pack? What do you think? Uh it's 135, I think. Something like that. Uhhuh. Yeah. But it's it's it's not bad because you get a bunch of different scents that you can pick from and quality scents like last that smell. Yeah. And you pick what you want. So what you're doing there, so many brands could get so much more exposure because, you know, I might buy the cream and I I don't get any other experience with what you have except for the cream. This is giving them the opportunity to to choose whatever they want. Eye cream, you're getting our face wash, you're getting our vitamin C serum, you're getting an exfoliating enzyme, glycolic acid cleanser, and a little bit of a mineral mask. And then you get um on the back the instructions and the ingredients, right? And what we do is we put because you have to have a um an expiration date, right, for legal rudiments. And we'll put a sticker the lot number. So instead of putting a lot number on every single thing, we looked up what you have to do. As long as you they're all filled the same day, we'll put a sticker lot number right there. And so each batch will have its own lot number. Um, and then what we're able to do is close this up. The last thing we'll do is fill the cream because we don't like the cream to sit too long. The soaps are okay. Yeah. Um, but and then we'll just put the sticker right there. Bam. Okay. I follow up to this because what I see there is this. Can you market this as a step process? The fivestep or sixstep process. So everybody that uses it, well, maybe it'll last for 15 days, but the but the real product and you market that as the sevenstep process in your face, you know, uh, process because every one of those products that you just talked about, I have back over here in step processes that I used to market for people. And it sounds like that's the exact same thing. Well, yeah. I mean, it's exactly. And and in the video that I did, I show you how to use them all, right? And then I even gave a few bonuses like we have our face oil, which is not here. I gave it, but I show that you can also use the face oil as a makeup remover by putting a few drops on a cotton round. It doesn't you you know, you can mix it with the cream for extra hydration and cocooning moisture at night. You know, I show um yeah, but I go through first wash with this, then do your exfoliating wash. Um, then you can do a mask. The mask you just get like three uses out of. It's fine, but you only want to do that once a week. Then you apply your vitamin C serum. Then you apply your cream, um, your eye cream. Then you apply your face. I would add something to that. Well, first of all, there's no sugar as more than the fourth ingredient in any of that stuff, right? I'm just I'm just making sure because my my grandmother does I won't disappoint I won't disappoint mom. But we have a sugar polish that you I mean this smells This is pineapple and peach. This right here. Oh my. This is our pineapple peach. This just smells like like a a Hawaiian freaking surfer girl who's ripped and tan and uh and that's and she's glistening and it's just this Hawaiian delicious body polish full of sugar. full of sugar. You know, that's something that's something that Kevin and I have in common is that um sugar has to be the actual first ingredient, too, is I would consider adding a product that's unique to the box. You cannot buy it uh you cannot buy it in the jars or in a cream. It's only in there. And what that will do is it will if it's a good product, people will buy the sample sample box just to get that product. And if the product takes off, people are like, "I wish they would do this in a big bottle. I would use this every day and I got to buy another sample box and I I don't need it because I got the big bottles. I'll give the samples to my my girlfriend for her to try." Uh and and then then eventually you put that out as a limited release. Like, "All right, we heard everybody talking. You like this eighth blah blah blah blah thing that's only in sample boxes. We got you." But but this is hard to get. Whether it's hard to get or not, it this is hard to get. And we only have 200 of them that we could make. Totally. You know, they're $150 a piece and then then uh you know, you build off of that that I think could launch something and make it like the premier exclusive product. Hey, what's up everybody? Kevin and Norm here with a quick word from one of our sponsors, 8 fig. Let me tell you about a platform that's changing the game for Amazon sellers. That's right, it's called 8Fig. On average, sellers working with 8ig grow up to 400% in less than a year. 8FIG offers both funding and free tools for e-commerce growth and cash flow management. And here's how it works. 8ig provides flexible datadriven funding tailored to your exact needs. You know, they can fund anywhere from up to $50,000 all the way up to 10 million. 8fig gives you free tools to forecast demand, manage inventory, and analyze cash flow. Visit 8fig.co, that's 8fig.co, to learn more or check the link in the show notes below. Just mention marketing misfits and get 25% off your cost. That's 8fig.co 8fig.co. See you on the other side. Yes. Well, you will then be proud because um in October we're going to release another one because we have 20 products. And so the um the original face cream will be we have two creams. We have one that's richer and one that's lighter. See there's one that's white, the marine pearl, and then our original rich cream and the marine pearl. So, the next set will have the marine pearl. And instead of this face wash, it's going to be our exfoliating bamboo polish. Instead of the marine powdered mineral mask, it's going to be a pumpkin mask. Instead of the eye cream, it's going to be our mandarin melt cleansing balm. Instead of the vitamin C serum, it will be our retinol buchial serum. And then December, we'll do another box that's going to have our um our peptide. We bought little bottles of our um very expensive uh peptide growth factor. So there'll be a sample pack with that and and some of our other So we have enough products that we're going to make I I think we it's four different um discovery size kits that we will and that way customers that already have another thing you could do with that is you could have them you have the since you're DTOC you know all your customers already well you don't know them on Amazon u but you know them you know them maybe you do this on Amazon it's like okay in the sample pack there's a card on shop uh that they can either mail in um and it's postage paid or they can there's a URL or QR code and they go to the website and it's hey we have this eighth one that's uh XYZ and it does this. It's not available anywhere else. The only way to get it is to recommend three friends to the product or or get three friends to sign up on our our newsletter or to order a sample pack or whatever. Uh and then we send this to you as a gift for free. it's worth $89 and it cost you like five bucks and you just got three really good leads. There's all kinds of stuff that you could do like that that would be I think really cool uh and really grow you and get you from number 420 to number 200 on that list of uh because you gave an idea that I want to employ about be that nice friend. Yeah, I think I mentioned something like that. Yeah, I forgot I said that. Yeah. Yeah, there there's there's some cool stuff. So, I mean the it's endless what you can do when you start thinking as a misfit as in marketing and especially when you have something a product that works that's fundamentally a lot of people try to sell things and they can sell stuff but that whatever they're selling is crap or it doesn't work. But when you have something that works and that people believe in and has a loyal following, you can get very creative with the market to really grow that when you got raving fans like you do and and blow that up to where you're going to have to get a new warehouse. Um because those 10 pe the 25 people aren't going to fit in that 10 person spot that you're gonna need. Um but that that so talk about these Tik Tok lives. So why five hours? People are like, "Well, just why don't you just go on there for like 20 minutes?" Why is it five hours? Well, it's because I have a lot of bills to pay and the longer I'm on, the more money I make. I mean, that's just it. like you know I I'm in a at least in my profession money's just not coming in all the time if I'm not there like when I go when I'm on Tik Tok that's when I sell right yes we have our Tik Tok out there someone can come to it accidentally or maybe by a $100 a day ad we put maybe we've got an influencer out there and she happens to say something about ours and we get a couple sales but really um it's me talking about these products and um you know for me to talk about something for five hours um you know I do these autograph conventions where I'll sit there for 10 hours and I'll sit I'll sit down for 10 hours talking to fans signing autographs and um and I could do that all day because it's it's easy. I'm not digging a ditch. I'm not out in sweltering weather hauling bricks. I'm I'm sitting and I'm talking to people about things that I'm passionate about. And it's to me it's sort of no different than doing these autograph horror sci-fi conventions where you're the longer you sit there, the more bills you get paid off and the more people you meet and the more you find out that what you're doing is appreciated. And I know it seems weird that I'm comparing selling my skincare on TikTok to doing a horror convention meeting fans, but do you just once a week or do you do it more than once a week or is it just that's what you just timed off in your schedule to do? It's what I timed off my schedule. I will pop on sometimes on a a Sunday or a Tuesday morning. Um and really I should do it every day. Like I really should. and um and but I'm I'm so in the weeds in my company helping with the copy and the photography and um yeah, but it it became this cool thing and it's been almost two years now where people just they get excited for this Wednesday thing. So, I definitely keep that in and I and I sort of feel like God, if I did it every day, will I like drain them or, you know, I have a little bit of that because when I go on, no matter what we have, they love to to buy it. They love to be a part of it. Um, and it's and I'm constantly answering questions. And with Tik Tok, unlike Facebook or Instagram, Tik Tok is feeding you new eyeballs. And so the longer you're on and the more um participation people are giving you and you've got to tell them like tap on the screen the the tapping creates the algorithm excitement so you get you get um put out to to more um women in their 40s who are looking for skincare. So, it's one of those things that just when I'm ready to sort of end, I'm like, "Wow, now it's 8:00 in LA and I'm here in Florida and now there's a whole new slew of women who've ended their day and are ready to sit and talk about skincare and they have questions and they're 50 and and and my my heart is like, "Oh my gosh, you've come here. You have a question. I've answered that question 17 times in the last four hours, and I will happily answer it again." You know, what is that retention rate? How long do they usually stay on? Do you know? Um, it it the majority stay on for like 10 minutes. Yeah. But I will have a couple dozen or so women that will stay on for those four hours. It's insane. And I adore them and they answer questions for the new women that come on. So, you know, someone Yeah. They'll they they become the fans that will say, "Oh, trust me, you'll want to get that Mandarin melt. you will, you know, you've never had such a fun experience washing your face and I don't even have to answer them. You know, I I love that you can do it for five hours, but one of the concerns I would have uh and just because I've I've been through this if this is one of your main um revenue streams. No, it's not. It's not. Oh, it's not. Okay. Email is Email is email is 80% of our the millions we make. So, how are you using email then? What are you doing? Because a lot of people, Norman and I have talked about this in other misfits podcasts, people are afraid to use their list. They're afraid to send emails. They're afraid like someone's going to get upset or unsubscribe or call them dirty names. What do what do you what do you do? No, we come from the hit your list. We come from the hit your list. We are email crazies and we don't even have tons. like maybe we only have like 10,000 people and yet we will make a couple million just from like that's you know from our email list. Um yeah, it's the tens of thousands just uh from from emailing. We do we do an ingredient spotlight. We I do founder letters on certain holidays. I write stories about um my Italian family um about growing older and what what that's like um we um great photography everything has to be delicious um and a little humor but we pretty much people are getting hit every day I mean I subscribe to your emails and um and you know in fact I got one today that said oh good you're still there the hustle or someone you recommend there it was like making sure that you're opening it up. Um, so we do Clavio Clavio. However, we may be switching to another one that we just found out a lot of our skincare companies um actually use a different Omnis email. What? Omnisend or Mailchimp or Aweber or I'll tell you it it all the we did a little search and we found out that seven of our competitors use Michael. What's the email? What's the email company that the competitors use that? That Oh, hang on. So, here's Mailjet. Mailjet. Mailjet. Mailjet. It's located in France. I'm not familiar with Mail, but that did you use like did you use like I'm not either like True Botanicals, Tata Harper like Cool. Yeah. Yes. Now, are you using any form? Like I know you're in publications, but do you also leverage uh gift guides? you know, we don't um I'm we for a while we were um like we've done we paid for ad space on airplanes, you know, like the hemispheres and and we've had um some publicists make some put us in some gift guides like we were doing that in 2020 2021 when people like really like were wanting content and it was it was easier to get in and um but we we haven't really leveraged that. I think that's a good opportunity there especially for what you're doing. Gift guides are perfect for uh skinincare products. Yeah. So other like companies like magazines gift guides, right? Yeah. It could well it could be any any news uh organization, any channel that you see on TV usually has their own gift guides. And then they have um any big blogs will have a gift guide. Uh newspapers uh and all you have to do is type gift guides like skincare gift guides and you'll see a ton of them. And some of them like I I know uh I was working with a pillow company and all of a sudden every quarter we'd see $100,000 in extra sales and it was because Wired or Wire Cutter uh put us into their gift guide. And we didn't even know it at that time. there. It was free. They just did that. There's a website called help a reporter out harrow. Yeah. And that uh actually people post like around the holidays especially. They'll be reporter. Sometimes it's Good Morning America. Sometimes it's uh some local just Pittsburgh gazette, but they'll say, "Hey, we're doing a gift guide for the holidays. We're looking for children and beauty products. Uh if you have anything, let us know." And it's totally free. I mean, they have a paid version of it, but you can just get on the free version. And they send out emails. Uh um it used to be three times a day, but they just yeah, they changed hands recently, so I'm not sure what their uh cadence is right now. Um but they they yeah, you can just go and reply to people say, "Hey, I've got something. I'll be happy to send you a sample." And a lot of times they'll they'll feature you and um that stuff can be hit or miss. Sometimes, okay, I got two sales off of this one. Other times it's like holy cow I got like a 200 sales and brands brand awareness and it's good for the it's good for AI as AI as if nothing else as AI search becomes a bigger thing than people going to Google and type in what's a good skincare for over 50 they're going to be asking we'll bring that back it's true we kind of let that go like we we've probably been in maybe a a couple dozen gift guides from like 2020 to maybe 2023 and we sort of let that go and um and don't search it out or anything. And so, but you're right, especially now with this too. Well, going along with that, uh a press release like every single product that you launch, you should be putting out a press release, a good quality press release. There's cheap crappy ones out there for 49 bucks, but a good one would range usually from around 7 something up. It could be as high as 3,000, but anywhere around a,000 bucks, you know you're getting something good. Okay. And that is it's full circle. It went away. It came back. It went away. It came back. I used to use uh press releases for product launches and it worked incredibly well, but now it's just uh Google's looking for unique content. And if you can do that and if you're using uh even for like a a Google business profile or even LinkedIn, but just put just create an event or just ad events for your Tik Tok stuff too, your Tik Tok lives. Yeah. So what will happen Google event? Uh yeah Google well in Google business profile you can create an event. Uh it it's similar to a post. You'll have an option for a post offer or event. You just post an event. You tell it the times. Uh so you know it could be one day it could be 30 days and uh Google will uh weigh that a little heavier so you'll get more exposure uh based on those keywords. Wow. All right. All right. you for any any new product launch that could work. Yeah, it could work for the weekly the Tik Toks too and just just get an audience in there over it might take a little while for it to kind of get going rocking and rolling but over time it should start snowballing and uh then that that'll be seen as credibility and Google's AI uh mind and all kinds of stuff that yeah there's there's a lot of cool stuff that you could do there to grow it organic. Hey, Kevin King and Norm Ferrar here. If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits, thanks for listening this far. Continue listening. We got some more valuable stuff coming up. Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player. Or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify, make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of The Marketing Misfits. Have you subscribed yet, Norm? Well, this is an old guy alert. Should I subscribe to my own podcast? Yeah, but what if you forget to show up one time and it's just me on here? You're not going to know what I say. I'll I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair, too. We'll just You can go back and forth with one another. Yikes. But that being said, don't forget to subscribe, share it. Oh, and if you really like this content, somewhere up there there's a banner. Click on it and you'll go to another episode of the marketing misfits. Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm. Where do you see this going? Are you want to keep doing this uh for years or do you hope to sell this to one of the big uh beauty brands at some point or what's what's your goal with this? Are you just having too much fun right now? I I I am having fun and um you know, of course, it it would be my husband definitely sees selling it to a big company. Um, you know, I'm still I still get torn of of um can they really maintain what in the way that I've created these formulas because um you know it's it's not always like the huge profit margin because of how we formulate and how we do it. And we would probably certain things might need to be reformulated if a big brand wanted to put these in big warehouses on hot warehouse shelves. Um, so I'm I'm always torn a bit with that, you know, but my gosh, I mean, Ferraris are made and they're not made in mass production and they're doing okay, you know, so there's where there's a will, there is a way. And if this is going to be a more curated, smaller batch, but still um be able to continue on as a legacy brand, I'm I'm all for that. It's a little tough for me to see that right now, but um right now I'm I'm I'm enjoying creating and making all these new sisters and people that really want makeup optional skin. ELF just sold for two billion dollars with a B. You could you who knows? I may be reading a press release. U like Nor said in like three years in your face sells for $1.2 billion. Uh there there you go. We'll go we'll go have cigars and you know white and brown and beige. But you know you know what's going to make it billion dollars. It's that in your in your beard cream. The in your beard cream is what's going to put it over the top. So that's that's that's what you got to do. The in your beard cream. I'll promote it for you. I want to get some merch, you know. And I was thinking like I mean a baseball cap's not very and I thought you know a visor is good because a visor allows sun to come from top of your head which is a good thing and I right well it's it's good the pineal gland it's good to and so so I want the advisor and then maybe I could say not in your face. Ah there we go. I see what you're doing you know. So I I like the fake beards though. The fake beard. Yeah. Fake beard like mine. The fake beard. We could Well, we I don't have our oil here, but our oil comes in a jar like this, a clear, and it's our it's our it's our oil. In fact, we're making a newsletter right now that um for Father's Day and we talk about all the different ways, you know, that men use our cucumber toner, you know, as a after shave, the oil as a beard oil. Ah, now that's that's an interesting uh question. This is an interesting question because we've seen the female side of everything that you're doing. Men's grooming is a fast growing segment in the market. And what are you doing for that? You know, we're just going to package it the same formulas and put them in black and gray there. Send them out and the word steel and chrome and rubber and exhaust and turbo on it. Ah, there we go. It like I literally do say that to them because so many women, this is what they say to me. They go, "My husband loves the cream. He's always sticking his paws in it." They always call the husband's paw. Like, it is amazing. Twice a week for five years, there's going to be an email where the word paw and it's in um a description of a husband's hands. He's always putting his paws in. I told him to get his own. And so then they say, "When are you going to come out with a men's line?" I'm like, "But you've told me that he loves using it and at the end of the day, just buy him his own." And they're like, "I know." Okay. So, that's really like could I change the packaging and say it's for men and the um formulas are no different. I do know companies that do that. I feel a little sketchy about doing that. Um, you know, I mean, I suppose I could have made a lot more money if I made a lot of different decisions with this company and the way even it's the same. It's made for men. It's made for men. I'm not using a Okay, I understand. using a female's product. I'm not some, you know, guys get things in their head that I I ain't this or I ain't that. I ain't. So, I don't agree too much very often with Kevin, but yeah, I would agree on that, Norm. I got I got I That's two this month. That's two times you agree with me this month. I'm This is good. Maybe this is good for me. Maybe in like, you know, eight months I can come back. I hope to bring a little There we There we go. Now we are at the top of the hour. That flew by. And there's one question we always ask our misfit if they know a misfit. Oh my gosh. I the the gentleman um who basically told me the the marketing guy who said, "Those names are not good for you. You're such an in-your-face kind of girl. Um he is a marketing genius. He has a company, a new company that uh um called Capsule and um and I and Dominic and Nick. Dominic and Nick and I think you need to meet them because they are doing things with with AI and with create finding your avatar of your customer from every little aspect of the buying habits. And I think they would give a a really um they're they're just doing things all the correctly wrong ways. If if people want to reach out to you, uh is it inyourface dokincare.com or inyourface.com or where do they go? It's inyour-yourfacekinare.com and your Tik Tok channel if they want to tune in on a Wednesday night to see what you're doing in yourface skincare Tik Tok. Inyourface skincare. Get that skin care in there because I think in your face might be like I don't know whoever owns it probably wants a half a million by now. In your face. Um so get the word skincare on there. In your face skincare. All right. Very good. Well Denise, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It was great having you on. Oh my gosh. Many good takeaways with you guys. All right. All right. We're gonna remove you and hit the wrong button again. Norm. Just a sec. I just I gotta do it, Denise. I'm just gonna give him that moment by himself. Okay. We We can talk. We can talk. Like extra power or something that Oh, yeah. That's exactly what it was. All right, Denise. We'll see you later. So, that was that that was great. That was uh uh Denise is is a lot of fun. and she's doing a lot of really cool stuff when it comes to branding and uh and and marketing and and you can see it. Uh she's passionate about it. Um and it's it's working really really well. And I think there's a lot to learn the people, those of you watching and listening, uh there's a lot to learn uh and be inspired by what uh Denise has has done and is continuing to do uh with with her brand. 100%. You can feel that passion for her product. That's for sure. I remember uh sitting in that uh what were we Cassie or something like that and she came over and just you could feel her energy. Oh. Oh yeah. No, she's it's it's great. It's it's uh it rubs off on you. But especially, you know, the misfits can rub off too off on you too. If if you're listening to the marketing misfits and you like this episode with Denise, make sure you check out all the other episodes. We got 60some of them. Uh we do one every single Tuesday. 60s something of them in the past. a new one coming every Tuesday. You can do that at marketingmisfits.co. Uh or you can That's correct. Head over to the YouTube channel, MarketingMisfits. And there's even something new there that uh Norm has got for you. What What's that over there, uh Nor? We got a special channel. It's a YouTube channel, and all you have to do is Marketing Misfits clips, and what you'll see are the best nuggets. I don't like the word nuggets, but it's 3 minutes or under clips of all the best uh uh all the best segments of each podcast. So, check it out. Yeah. And uh make sure you hit that subscribe button if you like this episode. If you if you got inspired by it, share this episode uh with a friend or with a colleague or or someone that you know that might be inspired by Denise's what she's doing and her story and get some ideas. And uh be sure to subscribe on Apple or Shopify or wherever you're listening to this because every single Tuesday, including next Tuesday, we'll be back with a brand new episode. All right, so that's it for today. We will see you next Tuesday. Thanks, guys.