Scaling Isn’t About Doing More — It’s About Doing Less (The Right Way) with Joaby Parker | Ep #798

Scaling Isn’t About Doing More — It’s About Doing Less (The Right Way) with Joaby Parker | Ep #798 Speaker 2: Hey, Joaby, welcome to the show. Speaker 1: Thanks. Thanks for having me. Speaker 2: Yeah. Excited to have you on. Tell us who you are, what you do. Speaker 1: My name is Joaby Parker. I'm a founder and CEO of Cover 3 Growth Partners out of Logan, Utah. We focus on food and CPG companies and helping them grow strategically and creatively as well. Speaker 2: Awesome. And how'd you get involved in the agency space? Accidental agency owner? Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, no, it was purposeful. My very first job out of college was with Icon Health and Fitness. They're the owners of NordicTrack and ProForm and Weider and Westlow. And I was in the marketing department there and got to work with lots of agencies like literally hand in hand. And I just loved what they did. And so after a few years there, the senior designer at Icon, him and I left and started our first agency. Speaker 2: Awesome. That's great. What was that like kind of going out on your own for the first couple of years? When did you start feeling some momentum? Speaker 1: I always say it's really funny because our very first client was a sod farm of everything. So that was our first client. I'll never forget that. Speaker 2: How do you market a sod farm? Speaker 1: You know what? We actually, we did awesome. We actually branded the grass. Speaker 2: The grass is greener on the sod farm. Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah. Yeah, it was a sod farm called Chanshare. You know, so we were just really, you know, you don't want just any grass you want, you know, Chanshare sod. So the question of when do we get some momentum? You know, it took a few years. I mean, we were young, really didn't even know what we were doing for a little while, but we did start to get some momentum. We ended up working for Chemdry, the carpet cleaning company, and helped to completely rebrand them. And soon after that, they were purchased by Home Depot. And so we got to work through an entire transition period with Chemdry franchisees all over the United States and helping them take advantage of the Home Depot partnership and made them all these kits where they could go and I stand outside on a Saturday morning in front of a Home Depot as people walked in and show them how the chem drive process worked and everything. And it was great. Speaker 2: Were you able to get Home Depot as a client from that? Speaker 1: No, no Home Depot. Speaker 2: That was an interesting company. I remember, so they were in Atlanta, right down the road from where I lived. And so we did work with them. They're an interesting company. Their headquarters was very nonchalant. It was right across the street from one of their home depots. But to get into this building, there was so much security. I felt like I was going in the FBI. And they always treated everything as just everything locked in. There was NDAs galore. It's pretty hard to get in. Speaker 1: It's extremely locked out. Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, come on. Like, it's just business. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: But they sure do not like their competition. I can tell you that. Speaker 1: Yeah. Blue is a swear word there. Speaker 2: So exactly. So you had the opportunity to go work with one of your clients and really kind of leave the agency that you created. Walk us through the thinking of that, because there's a lot of people that they're in the agency right now. They haven't solved everything, right? There's always something to be solved, but there's something that's pretty frustrating to them that they'd be like, man, if I just had an offer to go somewhere else, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Where were you at when this happened? Speaker 1: Man, that's a great question. So we had kind of plateaued, whether it was in our mind or anything like that, but I kind of felt like at that time, I felt like that geography was causing us the problem. We were in a small town and things like that. And truly, it wasn't as easy to do outreach as far as it is now. And so we had, you know, kind of bounced along this ceiling for, it was nine years that I ran that first agency. And for the last two years, we kind of bounced along the ceiling. And one of our clients, you know, I just got along great with, they were a snack company, snack food, popcorn snack food. And, you know, he just approached me one day on a side channel kind of and just said, look, you know, we're growing and we see a lot of opportunity ahead and we think, you know, you'd be a great key member of our team. And so, you know, I obviously didn't just jump right at it. You know, I hemmed and hawed at it for a little bit. And then soon after there, another party kind of entered into our relationship that I could tell kind of wanted to be part of the agency life. And it just became a really nice place to make a break. And it went really well. It was really smooth. And that agency still carries on. I mean, they changed the name, you know, to help with a, you know, a new identity and things like that. It still goes today. And so what was great was jumping from the agency side, you know, back to client side really helped me kind of buckle back down, you know, to like CMO style strategy and everything like that, like getting back to the foundation of a brand and everything like that. And that's been a long time ago now. You know, this agency, I started in 2010. So it's been a long time. Speaker 2: What do you think was making you kind of plateau at that point? If you can kind of pinpoint, was there one or two things that was you were hitting your head against that if you could have figured out? Speaker 1: Like I mentioned, you know, we're kind of in a small town. In Logan, Utah, which is where Utah State University is. But looking back now, I truly think it was more allowing myself to, you know, let the geography feel like it limited us. The biggest reason that we plateaued was the same reason that any time my current agency has plateaued would be I didn't have any type of process that gave us a predictable flow of leads. And so after we'd gotten referrals and we were doing work for a bunch of the bigger companies around us and everything that kind of made sense that people use us, we just struggled to find new opportunities to get in front of people to do more work. That's where I just, I could feel us just constantly bouncing along there is, you know, we just need more referrals to come in because we just didn't spend enough time to build a lead flow. Speaker 2: You know, I posted something not too long ago and it says referrals just aren't scalable. And this one guy sitting in his mother's basement in his underwear eating Cheetos had to do a comment and was like, what are you talking about? Referrals are the best, you know, like that's how you grow business. And I said to him, I said, referrals can grow your business and they're nice. You just haven't hit the level where you're going to hit the plateau yet. Because I went through the same thing. We all do. Mine was a little different story because I kind of fell into this market by accident. You wanted the pain to start an agency. So you're like, yeah, give it to me, right? So you asked for it. So I don't feel bad for you back then. I'm just all joking aside. But as I was building the business and probably you too, like you do good work for your clients and then they refer you to someone else that is similar. We're smaller, never bigger. And so when you start out and you're doing it for a long time, you're never charging the prices that you should in the future. And so what I found happening was I had all these clients, I couldn't manage them physically myself, not even with the small team that I had. So I had to hire more people, which meant the business was making more money, top line, but The profit was just dwindling down because I had all these people, I had all these different layers. And then I realized one day I was like, man, if I wanted to double my business, why not just double my prices? And then say no to all the people that are paying the existing pricing. And like when we started doing that, then that was a switch for me. And I'm glad you're honest too with the geography, what really wasn't the one holding you back, other than what's between our ears. When I sold my first agency, I sold at a time where I thought I hit the plateau. I felt like that was the biggest that I'll ever get. I don't know what a business over 13 million would look like. That's how I was thinking. And then looking back, I'm like, no, dumbass. You just figure it out and you learn more. Looking back, I'm like, man, I could have grown that to $100 million agency. Right. Like just from over time learning, it's amazing how us as owners, we throttle the agency growth because we're too scared. If we really are true to ourself and we admit it, I'm sabotaging this deal because I don't trust the team can handle more work. That happened to you too? Speaker 1: Oh, a hundred percent. I found myself sabotaging it because I just felt like it'll all just end up on me. Yes, because I wasn't good enough yet at running an agency. I was just good at working in one. And so, you know, anytime extra work came, you know, like, I don't want to trouble those guys, you know what I mean? Like, this is my dream and everything like that. And so I would just take on the load. And 100% of what you're saying, I mean, you literally, you know, as you talk with people that have ran agencies and gone through this process, happens to all of us, you staff up, And now you have all these costs and you're like, holy cow, we're doing more work than we've ever done. I'm working more hours than I've ever done. And I'm making way less money than before we staffed up. And so that ceiling plateau, the other reason when that client asked was I thought it was an opportunity to take a break. I didn't necessarily know I was going to be taking a break, but you know, it was definitely like, okay, I could just go. I mean, forgive the term, but I could go be mindless and work for somebody else and do this sleep instead of having to be a superstar every single day. So that was an opportunity, a little bit of an escape of. You know, what I had built. Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a blessing and a curse. Yeah, altogether, right? Like, like, I just became a private pilot about a year ago. And one of my friends kids is about to go to college. He wants to be airline pilot. And so I asked him, I said, Why do you want to be an airline pilot? He goes, because when I shut off the aircraft, I don't have to think about anything I can think about. Everything but work. But you think about like, you know, Joaby, like, you think about it, my mind is always on work, even though I don't work as much, right? Like I work 20 hours a week, and people would kill for that. But the curse is my mind is always on it. I'm always thinking, what can I do to help agencies? I remember this one member that said this, and what can we do to improve that? My mind's always subconsciously thinking of that. We're like, what's a video I can create? I can never just shut off the airplane and then go think about something else. Speaker 1: We had a good friend that was older than us, maybe a little bit more, I wouldn't say a mentor, but a couple that we looked up to and stuff. And that guy worked at a glass shop his entire life. And I was just like, how does he do that? With a racing mind like mine, I never could have done it. And at the same time, you're like, but how peaceful would that be? You'd just be like, I'm done. I go home, you know, because my mind, just like yours, you know, it's never going to turn off. But that's why we are where we are. Speaker 2: That's exactly right. Speaker 1: It definitely doesn't mean that we're in a higher place than him because he has found like the ultimate joy of life and peace of this family and everything. So I'm still working towards that. It's just at a much more frantic pace. Speaker 2: Hey, agency owners, if you're sticking with one platform for every project, you're probably stuck in a growth bottleneck. More clients means more hires, which adds noise and cuts into profits. To break the loop, you need a more flexible tool that doesn't stretch your resources. Now, Wix Studio is a smart addition to your agency's toolkit. Intuitive by design, your team can quickly master the platform and focus on the work that matters the most. Now, with robust native business solutions, Like booking, e-com, and events, you can take on any project at any scale without adding cost to third-party plugins. Plus, Wix Studio is a low-maintenance platform, meaning you can redirect client budget toward real growth initiatives. Think more value for your clients, steady income stream, and stronger relationships. Scale your agency at wixstudio.com. Well, the one thing that I think is the solution to that challenge that we just talked about, and it took me many years to realize this. Do you think you're a good manager or a bad manager of people? I'm not talking about a leader. I'm talking about a manager. Speaker 1: I would say for most of my career, I've been a bad manager of people, even though I've been a football coach for over 20 years in high school. And on a football field, I'm an incredible manager, like very successful, never had a losing season as a football coach or anything like that. I just don't know how to apply all those same principles as a business manager, and I can't make anybody do burpees. Speaker 2: All right, let's drill into that a little bit because I want people to think on this because I'm a horrible manager as well. I'm glad you said that. I think anybody that owns an agency that's successful is going to be a bad manager if you're more the visionary type. Now, there could be partners, right? But the visionary ones coming up with ideas, because how I look at it is, I'm like, you have to do it this way. And it should be done yesterday. I don't have any patience. I explained it to you one time, you should get it. I just showed you how to fly the plane. Now you go fly the plane, right? Like that's a horrible manager. That's why I'm also not an instructor for flying either. I'd be like, yeah, just go take off. Let's just put the throttle in and figure it out. Versus what What freed me up in my agency and freed me up in this agency is hiring people that can manage them themselves. And being the leader, right, like your football coach, you just put the right players, the great players in the right positions. And they manage on the field. You give them leadership and direction. Go to that fucking touchdown. Get the ball. Stop this. Here's the plays that we've already rehearsed. We prepared for this. And that's how I looked at when I got freedom in my agency in the businesses I've had. I started hiring people that could manage themselves. Or I hired managers for the people that couldn't manage them themselves, because there's also those people too. So make decisions based on that. I will always back you up, either if it's a right or a wrong decision. We'll learn from it together. And that was the total freedom. If anybody thinks about that, and then they're like, then people go, well, I don't have the money to pay for them. Yeah, you do. Charge more. And in order to charge more, you got to narrow down your focus. Who can you help? Who can you help better? It's little baby steps that make the biggest differences over time. But that's what freed everything for me. So hopefully this unlocks something. I appreciate you being honest. I'm glad you said, I'm a pretty bad manager. Like if you said a good manager, I'm like, how do I take this? I want to change focus a little bit. How did you get out of the day-to-day for the creative stuff? You were like me, rolling up your sleeves for everything and dealing with all the clients, which is overwhelming too, right? Then you're focused on sales, then you're focused on delivery and focused on sales and focused on delivery. What process that you did or what, looking back, what worked for you to get out of it? Speaker 1: Well, I would say that it ebbs and flows still, but it's definitely in... I'm very much out of the creative as compared to what I used to be. Most of the creative still needed to come across my desk in some way or another for most of the entire time of both agencies. Speaker 2: Was that an ego thing or people didn't have the capability to do it or what? Speaker 1: And frankly, people having the capability to do it is still sometimes a problem because good ones are expensive. But they're worth it. You know, I mean, like you said, I mean, if you can do good work, and I don't. The one thing, you know, I have a business partner, he's a minority partner. And the one thing that we just over and over realized is that when I wasn't stuck running a mouse, we grew. When I could focus on our growth, then we grew. And as soon as I got behind under the hood, then our growth stagnated. And so, you know, we just have been working constantly over the last two years. I shouldn't say that, three years, but the last year has been the most successful we've had in getting me out of it. But it's still a struggle for me to trust, to trust that the work will be at a level that I know that I can just, you know, look at it and be like, nice, great job. You know, you've thought of all the things. And that does come from, you got to get the right people. And finding those people that you feel you can trust, it can be hard. Speaker 2: You creating a way for them to be successful, like meaning, like, for example, you chat with Darby a little bit, right? Darby's been with us as an agency scale specialist for four years. Didn't even know what an agency was. His best friend, which was a good friend of mine, introduced us. He used to sell like flooring. Never knew what an agency was. And I was like, there is no way that this guy could ever help out agencies. And in chatting with him, I was like, oh no, I could. And then I started thinking about what are the things that I know that he has to know? And it was stories going back to you, right? Like you can go back and going, we worked with this one ice cream brand and we did this, this and this. Like you have a story in there and a methodology that you put in place. So what I realized is for everyone on the team, what are the stories of success? What are the stories of failure that We had that I know, and how do I document them? And then how do I share that with them? And then over the time, as he's meeting and shadowing me on client calls, then he gets his own story. Like he knows way more stories than I know now. Like I have a short term, right? And then I also realized 80% Of someone fully doing it is better than my 20% here, here, here, here, and here. Speaker 1: That part there right there took me a long time to learn. Especially when it comes to, you know, not only was I doing creative, but, you know, I was like the main account manager too, because, you know, I'm the one that brought the client in and everything like that. And, and, um, my account management was not good, you know, because I couldn't focus on it enough. You know, that one we figured out years, years ago, but I still remember in the, in the earlier stages when we didn't have, you know, there was only a few of us and I was kind of spinning every plate. And I remember sitting down with some of our biggest clients and at times, you know, them sitting me down and saying, you know, how much they love our work. And it's never the work, but it's the deadlines and, you know, things like that. In essence, they're like, man, we don't want to lose you, but we're letting you know what could be frustrating about working with you, you know? And so you're like, okay, thank you. And I'll go fix it. And I did, you know, and I was like, I just got to get real account managers, people that can be all over. Speaker 2: You kind of get people that I think it starts to defining your core values. When we bring people into work for us, or we bring people into the agency master, like I had someone today goes, how do you judge who you let in to the mastermind? I said, it's really easy. If I can have a dinner with this person, and like I want to have another dinner afterwards, and I would invite them to my home. That's a telltale sign, right? And that's what I told Darby when we were qualifying people to come to the agency experience at my house, when we used to have it at my house. And then I started thinking, I was like, well, this is my values I believe in. That's why everyone on my team, we're not identical, but we believe in the same thing, which is nice because I'm all over the fucking place all the time. And then I have my team that's really regimen, and then they kind of pull me back into place, but we all want the same thing. That was kind of another unlock that really helped me out with really changing everything around, being like, oh, God, I got a lot of shit off my back. I can actually climb a little bit better. Not as much weight. Well, this has all been amazing. Is there anything I did not ask you that you think would benefit the listeners listening in? Speaker 1: The one thing that I have learned is as far as, you know, the growth of an agency and especially delivering to a client is it's a little bit maybe even overtaught a little bit. It's the old Henry Ford thing of salting the fries. Probably the biggest thing I did when I was younger was when we'd be in front of a client for the first time or especially if they'd hire us, feel such great pressure to come in And show them what we could do and try to make, you know, all these changes, everything like that, including like, oh, your brand needs a complete update and everything like that. And I would say my experience has taught me that I wouldn't say the exact opposite. I mean, you need to make, you know, you know, you need to make change. But I would say there's so many companies that a lot of people that work with us that may not even have an actual marketing budget down in Excel, you know, and they're spending a lot of money on marketing, but they don't have a budget itself and or consider themselves like we've grown without a lot of marketing. And I would say one of the greatest things that I've learned is to Learn first, like whenever we started with a client and things like that is really dive into like what has made them successful and use that as your home base and build out from that. And so I think we need to do those things within our own agencies. Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show. And if you guys really kind of feel like you're stuck in the grind and you're ready for To kind of stop working your ass off and you know stop playing the guessing game And you want to kind of escape that burnout I'd love for you guys to get agency mastery dot io and check out our community check out what we have to offer And it just might be the thing that you need. I'll take it out for sure I was talking to them, but you could check it out, too All right, well, thanks so much Joby for coming on the show and until next time have a swank day.