Market Masters 3 4- Where Empires Get (re)Built

So, with Market Masters, what I've tried to do is try to bring all that together. And the last market masters, I think we finally got the formula right both of y'all were at the first one, and it was kind of like >> it was 12 hot seats. It was just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Uh, and then we did we did that again at the second one, and then the third one, we changed the format, which is similar to the format we're doing for the one next month. >> And now it's less hot seats. Uh, there were six at the last one. There's gonna be nine this time. And so >> yeah, you increased. >> Yeah. But what we've done is we've uh well I'll talk about that in a second, but there's gonna be nine hot seats. Uh there's one left right now uh that hasn't been sold. Eight of them are completely are sold. So there's one that's actually left. And then we've added workshops. And the workshops uh we're doing uh seven of them this time. Um and the workshops are more like hands-on. So like bring out your computer and like and actually do it. Not just listen to a PowerPoint presentation and take some notes, but actually actually do it on the spot. And then I remember last time, you know, Leo was showing how to do some UC uh UGC stuff and people are getting lost uh at the end. Some people got it down and some people were like, I I I need some help here. So after the workshop, people were taking their laptops up. He was by the the bar on the second floor of the mansion, I think, for like until midnight or something. uh helping people one by one by one get the whole thing completely set up. You're not going to get that at a normal conference. You're not gonna get that somewhere else. And so that's what we do. And then I bring out my uh I have a chef that's cooking for everybody. Uh it's all drinks. We do a party, a fun party on uh on Saturday night with lots of really cool stuff. Uh and then you know my masseuse is there if you want to get a massage and there's there my trainer. So, it's it's a it's a whole weekend geared around networking, having fun, and moving your business forward. I know Pollock, you said that the first one that you came to, you were doing around a million and a half dollars. >> Yeah. >> And and now that was about almost two years ago, uh was September of uh 2024, I believe. >> 24. Yeah. 2024. >> Yeah. And you came and you sat both of you have sat in the hot seat. Now, there's two ways to come to the event. You can actually sit in a hot seat, which means, and we'll talk about how that works and what it's like to be in that hot seat in a second with y'all, but I just want to explain for the audience. So, the hot seat, the way it works is you you sign up to be in a hot seat. You you pay a little bit extra money for that and then you fill out a form and then I take that form and I go and I curate experts based on what your needs are. So, if you tell me, hey, I'm trying to get on Tik Tok shop, I go try to find some Tik Tok people. If you tell me I'm I'm trying to I'm having trouble with cash flow. I try to get some money people if you're saying I or whatever it may be in a mix and then those people are invited in as experts and they for the they get a little dossier in advance so they can research the hot seat person look at their website and do a little bit of work uh in advance and then on the day you the first hour is nothing but questions. So, they're based on their research and them looking at your dossier, they're asking the hot seat person nothing but questions and it can be a little bit uncomfortable sometimes. I mean, a little bit nerve-wracking because some of these are personal questions. Some of these are, you know, you're having to be a little bit vulnerable. Uh, and then we take a break and then we come back and the next hour or so uh is nothing but solutions. So, the experts are telling you, oh, you need to talk to this person, you need to do this, quit doing that. uh and sometimes the experts disagree uh with each other and that's actually is is nice too. And then at the end of that you've got a game plan that's directly aimed uh and configured for your business. So you're not walking out of there with a bunch of notes from a bunch of different talks. You're walking out with notes about what you need to do for your business. Some people that goes in one ear and out the other ear. Um and some people fight back. Some people like, "No, you're telling me I need to fire my uncle? Uh no, I'm not going to fire my uncle. He's my uncle." like, "No, you need to fire your uncle." Um, and and so, you know, some people just dismiss some of it. Then some people actually take it to heart and actually do quite a bit of what people say. And then if you have questions after your hot seat, you can actually you have uh depends on what day your hot seat is, but usually you have a little bit of time to actually go and ask more questions of the experts like, "Hey, can we go a little deeper? We were talking about that, but you know, over lunch or over dinner." So, it's it's super valuable. And then the the hot seat person has the option of making their hot seat open or closed. And by open that means you can have an audience. So it's not up on a stage. It's kind of like conference setup. But this audience can watch. They can't participate but they can actually watch the hot seat happening. And what a lot you see a lot of times is I see heads shaking and nodding and oh my gosh and people writing notes because you get a lot of valuable information just watching somebody else's business kind of be torn apart and built back built back up and so that uh and then you see people on the expert panel you're like oh that guy's really good I need to go talk to him at at dinner uh I need to corner him and like uh ask him some questions because he might be able to help me. So that's that's the value of that. Uh, so what is it like? Uh, well actually before we do that, Pock, you you came in doing a million and a half and now you said earlier when you introduced yourself, you're on track to do 20 million uh between your your businesses and that's that's a pretty strong growth in two years from a million and a half to 20 million uh between the two businesses. I know market masters you one of the ones that actually implemented a lot of what you were told not not everything necessarily you didn't have to agree you didn't agree with everything probably you were told but you implemented quite a bit of what you're told how much of a difference do you think that actually made in the trajectory of your business >> um a lot uh so the biggest takeaway from uh market masters who um all the people from marketing space and from branding space on my panel told me very clearly and uh very categorically that with the kind of product and pricing that you have I have a premium home linen brand and they told me very specifically that you can't be an Amazon seller selling this price point you have to aspire to be a brand so the thing that I was telling you earlier that we want to be a brand that inspiration came from market masters because everyone was very clear about the fact that these kind of images that are very basic with specific infographics that are very common on Amazon will not really work. You have to build very uh premium looking stack of images. Your first image has to look very premium. Uh kind of show why yours is more expensive. So you have to give your brand story not just the product. People have to know the founders. People have to know what they're buying. if it's a small business, if it's just like we we were a small just a husband wife team at that point of time. We didn't have any employees. Um so people need to see customers need to see who they're buying from if it's corporate or if it's just like a small, you know, it's a small unit. So I think that was one of the biggest things, my biggest takeaways was building a brand and then having that consistent brand voice, brand strategy, brand fonts and colors even on Amazon cuz normally you would think that that all applies to when you're selling on your own website but that's not true is Amazon can also be treated as a sales channel and you can build that brand on Amazon. So uh that was one thing that was one of the biggest takeaways from uh from you know market masters and then also pricing strategies kind of taking the pricing up and down how to play around with pricing like uh a very good insight that I got from Luba was that she mentioned that you have to make sure that you have two different kind of coupons or deals running on your products at any given point of time and that was a really good u suggestion because then you get traffic consistently coming in while without losing your uh margin. So that really helped us a lot as well. So they're like small advising and then uh for us the biggest win is adding products rather than just trying to build one single product. So we consistently we add 2.5 products every month. So, that's been a that's been our biggest game changer. >> Awesome. Welcome, Kate. >> Hey, Kate. >> Hi, Kate. >> You're muted. >> Hear me? Okay. >> Yeah, now we can hear you. Yeah. >> Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. It was such a late night last night. >> No worries. >> No worries. >> You're here. All good. >> I'm I'm alive. We're good. >> So, uh Kate Bray, everybody, uh welcome. Uh so we we were talking about conferences and uh and market m we're just starting to talk a little bit about market masters but uh I'll just we'll just since you just joined us I'll let you introduce yourself uh real quick uh to to everybody so go ahead and uh tell us who you are and what you do. Yeah. So, um I'm Kate. I'm late. Um and I I started my career in ecom about 10 years ago. Um and sort of I worked at a company called Netrush as an advertising strategist and kind of stuck with that for several years. um specialized in Amazon DSP for a while and then um I worked as a partner at an advertising agency called Incrementum Digital for about 5 years and um just kind of sat on my hands and and wanted to get in the game as an entrepreneur for quite a while. Um and about two years ago launched my first um business as sort of a I guess it was a DTOC Kickstarter pre-order model. Um, we generated about 1,500 pre-orders in the first few months. We ended up we couldn't we couldn't launch on Kickstarter and um, essentially my business we we make period pain relief and um, after we launched we went viral a couple times. Um, we got some mentions from influencers that really blew us up and um, ever since then that's what I've been focused on. That's what I've been doing. Um, and I love it. I don't. Yeah, it's I will never I will never go back to a nineto-5. >> Awesome. Well, let me ask you a question. We they uh Jonathan and Palaka answered it earlier, but just you have a little bit more experience here. Uh we're talking about conferences and the value of going to conferences, not necessarily market master, just conferences in general. And I know when especially when you were with Incrementalum, you went to quite a few conferences. Why should someone why do you think people should consider going to conferences? What's the value there? Is is it the content? Is it the networking? Is it What's the value? Why should someone get out of their house and actually go to an event? >> Yeah. So, that's actually um it's funny. I I asked myself that a lot because I personally just love conferences because I'm I'm such an extrovert. But my um recently actually um when I have been in sort of just a tricky spot with Reb and I I have so many questions because this is the first business I've ever sort of ventured out and ran on my own. um the number of people that I could text that could answer my questions so accurately and give me so many more resources than I could get if I were to Google it or YouTube it or look through Reddit for an answer was it actually blew me away at one point because it was like I just I could keep going down this rolodex of people that I had met specifically at Amazon Accelerate or Walmart Seller Summit or any of these conferences BDSS specifically um that I people that I had brought in my circle just over time. >> So that's so that the value is the connections and the networking then >> I would think yeah I would say so >> about content um it's about the networking. >> Yeah. And I think I think the content is for me just I my attention span just isn't isn't all there. So, like I usually end up watching the content on the plane ride home cuz when I go I'm I'm just talking the whole time. I'm just talking to people and making friends. Um, but yeah, I'd say definitely the networking. >> You can watch it in 2x or you can skip stuff. >> Exactly. >> Well, that's why I was saying we have uh close to 400 members in BDSC, but only a handful show up live. Most people watch it on on a replay and like 2x or like they watch 10 minutes of and go up, that's not for me. Uh on to the next one. Um but uh hey whatever works uh is is what works. So Jonathan um so what what um when it comes to like market masters why did you decide to actually attend the first market masters that you came to? What what was it? Um that said, you know what? I never heard of anything cuz you at that time the very first one and same Pollock I know you had Tim Jordan had to convince you I think uh to to actually come you weren't going. He's like you need to be there. So that was he was because he knew me but nobody had seen anybody thing like market masters in the space because there wasn't anything like it. Um, and so what what gave you the trust, Jonathan? Uh, and probably I think it's Tim that um that answer for you, but um if not, let me know. But Jonathan, what is what was it for you? >> Um, that's a good question. I I don't know that I remember um other than I was having because the first one I went to I did hot seat and and stayed in the mansion and I had that wonderful room by the bathroom there. But uh um I think I had I had that issue going on in the business that I wanted to solve and you know the hot seat the hot seat was the initial draw for me but then after I you know after I went you know I'll be going to all of them just because I enjoy the people and the the content and space venue all of it. Um but yeah the pro probably trying to solve that issue. Um, do you want me to talk about the hot seat now? >> Yeah. Yeah, you can get it. Go ahead. Yeah. What? So, what was your experience like? I mean, what? >> Um, well, I watched a whole bunch of them at the first. I that that the one I went to there were 12 and I was number 12 and so I got to watch everybody most all of them and loved watching it and you know my brains just spending the whole time with all all types of ideas and different things and even you know I want to answer some of the questions that people are asking when I'm sitting out in the audience I'm like I know that let me let me talk but um with the with the hot was um let's see I wrote a word for it Um, I guess first word comes to mind. It was rough. It was rugged. Um, you kind of feel a little Norm Ferrar really beat me up. I felt like and I'm like, dude, I've been doing this 12 years. Like, I know how to write a listing, you know, and he's he's telling me my listing is crap and brings it up and looking at I'm like, that's not my listing. That couldn't be that bad, you know? And so, um, but it it but you know, you have to humble yourself and realize you're there to learn and and learn stuff. But, um, I made a mistake going in because I had two different brands. I was trying to introduce both brands and trying to solve two different issues. And that just went nowhere real fast. And so, you know, it it it came to a point that we had to pivot and go to the one burn brand, the burn product that I have. And that ended up really uh getting good traction and and catapulting. And what's interesting to your point is, you know, went around the group and had a lot of ideas. Um and I remember Brian Johnson specifically mentioned retail and distributorships and home health and other things for that product. And I'm like, you know, it's a good idea, but I didn't take action on it. And then I came to the next one, and I think it was in Kate's hot seat that um the the retail guy was there and I heard and I think he was I don't know if it was hers or somebody's but he was talking about the retail aspect of it and the lights and alarms and sirens just went off in my head. I'm like, I got to talk to this guy. And so, you know, it it it's definitely the play that I made. And, you know, I end up connecting with him and and that didn't give as much traction, but I've launched into retail and I've got several POS just came in recently. And so, that's really getting traction. So, you know, it's a good example of I didn't listen the first time. Maybe I wasn't ready. Maybe I, you know, didn't hear it correctly, but the second time it was like, you know, it's like going to church. you know, every time you go, you hear something different, you know, something that you probably need. But when I, you know, at that particular time, that retail aspect just really spoke to me. And so, after the second time, I took action on it and and it's really paying off. >> Awesome. When you you said your yours was nerve-wracking to to be in that uh what can you explain what that experience was and >> Oh, so it was like going through it. >> I'm the opposite of Kate. I'm extremely introverted and I kept saying that to her. I love her energy. I love the way she talks. But I'm the opposite. It's it's nerve-wracking for me to be in a room full room full of people who are looking at me directly and asking me questions and I have to answer. It's like my worst nightmare. And uh he was like going and I was like, "Oh god, please please save me." And I was telling all I I'd spoken to all the experts before and I'm like, "Please be nice to me. please be nice to me. I'm very scared. It's so funny. But at the end of the day, I realized that all the questions that they asked and um all the not they weren't brutal, but like the direct questions that were asked were for my benefit. uh and I kind of understood that the heart from which they are asking is in the right place and it's it's just because they want to know all the information till the very end and that's why all the information is all the questions are coming from there and that's where the suggestions are coming from as well and as Jonathan mentioned like I was told the same like the listing is just like crap and this this does not look like a brand this looks like a normal $9 cushion. >> Very amateur. So I was like, "No, I gave this one year." But >> so yeah, >> it's hard. It's hard though when someone So it's your baby. I mean, your product and it's your baby and you worked hard on it and you you spent some money >> maybe and then when someone says no, this is it's it's it's kind of a gut punch. Uh and you want to and you want to fight back. I remember Julie that first one Julie Nep taloney um she had dog products and I think it was Steve tore her apart. He's like he's like what's your margins and she didn't know and she finally figured out and said what's I'm losing like 8% or something. He's like well you shouldn't even be in business. Uh you don't know this. You don't know this. You don't know this. Maybe you need to go do something else. And she was like basically f you uh you know in in the session and it it got but at the end of the day she actually listened. Now she's pos she actually did a lot of what he says. She went reflected on it and like you know what maybe he actually is right. Let me actually do this this and this. And now she's positive 24%. Uh and so um but it's hard. I mean we've had people that leave and cry that sat there in the chair and like there's tears coming out of their eyes. We've had people I know there's one couple that came in one time. This is the first one $130 million brand I think they were. uh and and they were uh they they wanted to launch some new products and they brought samples of the products to pass around to everybody and they're like, "Okay, tell us how to launch this." And we start asking the experts start asking the questions and realized their margin is 4% on private label and there's a lot of things that they're not doing right. So the whole thing pivoted from we're not going to tell you how to launch products. You have no business launching any products until you get your house in order. And we went through that. They at the end of it, it was a couple. They left uh and went to a dive bar just to like escape and like decompress and ended up, you know, going coming down the dive bar and there's some sort of gift shop, bought me a really nice uh hard coverver book, like coffee table book and brought it back as a present in a bag and said, "Thank you. This was uh life-changing for us." And that's that's why I I do these is to help because I think everybody needs that little little helping hand. That's why the first one I did, I lost $70,000 on the event. I haven't made money on Market Masters yet. Uh hopefully this year I'll come close to breaking even. Um but it it's it's that's what what drives me to do it because it helps people. It'll pay off, you know, some other way uh down down down the road. But there's a lot of people that that don't listen to what is said and don't actually do it either. And um but Pollock and Jonathan, y'all both u come back. Um and Kate, you've been twice too, right? Or is it? Yeah. So you came first time as an audience and then the second time you did but so that's opposite. So Jonathan Pal first came as a hot seat and then came back as an audience member. What was the experience? How was the experience different as an audience person versus uh for all any all three of you? Anybody can answer this versus a hot seat person. >> I mean I'll jump in. I love the audience part. I'm one of the first ones in line. I go get me a good seat every time because I want to listen. on here because I mean it's just content packed for and I'll I'll comment on one thing you said often the experts have differing opinions. It was in the last one. I forgot whose hot seat, but they were giving them like six different solutions to the issue. And I'm like, "Oh my god, that's mindboggling. How's she going to know what to do with it?" And as you said, they were battling going back and forth arguing about it. But at the end, I don't know if it was you or somebody brought it back and brought it back to one one plan of action, one POA to pick and choose. So it it but the I mean the um idea generation is just you know awesome >> and you would have to pay I mean for I mean for to come you know it's it's 9,000 bucks for the hot seat right now. There's you know some discounts sometimes you get or if you're an alumni you get discount and things like that. Um but people are paying well five grand and up for for sure now. I mean, when y'all first came, I had to do them. You know, they weren't that expensive because nobody knew what they were, so I had to give them away so people would do it. Uh, that's one of the reasons I lost a lot of money. But, um, it to get that level of experts, if you went and just hired these people, so you know, if you the six, seven, eight experts on your table, if you said, "Hey, Steve Simson, can I have two hours of your time?" Uh, one, he's may not even give it to you, but if he did, he's going to charge who knows what he would charge, but easily $500 to $1,000 an hour. uh just for that and then then it's not just the time at the hot seat but it's unfortunately Jonathan you were last so you didn't have as much time but uh a lot of people um can then follow up have time to to to follow up and and go into more detail which you're not going to get any other way and then like you said Jonathan I think the clash of the brains of the six different ideas and it's it's it's like a brainstorming session some of the smartest people that have been there before you and and what comes out of that is it's just it's it's Crazy. You're not going to get that hiring some consultants locally or something like that or or bouncing ideas off your family members or or your buddies. >> Well, I mean, look at look at Pal. You know, even if she paid 10 or 15 grand to get a 20x return on her business, maybe that wouldn't you know, maybe Market Masters wasn't everything that did it, but you know, you've had awesome growth. But that's what I was going to add to that that I'm very glad that I did the hot seat for us and I I think I had it on the second day. So what happened was um all the experts on my panel because we only had one hour for suggestions. I had a onetoone with most mostly all of them because everyone was like you know what I have a long list of notes that I I want to give it to you. I just didn't have time. I mean it was so sweet of Mary. She came to me and she said you know what I have to email you or I have to sit with you and send you all of these notes. I have so many thoughts and I want to give all of those to you. So even after the hot seat the next one and a half day just went in talking to everyone individually and getting all those notes together and getting taking all their brains individually. as you said um hiring any of them a lot of them are themselves entrepreneurs so they don't even have the bandwidth to kind of speak to anyone else about anything about any suggestions but just sitting with them >> having them know about my business and then having these pointers that are specifically catered to my business was really helpful and especially doing that in the first time and then you build that community and you you kind of start knowing people people start knowing you. There are so many every time that I came in I felt like I was coming back to family and then everyone kind of remembers you and you you start from there again and then it's back to sharing more discussion having more discussion sharing pointers with each other. So it just it felt like every time you just had you know two three of those big moments like oh my god this is brilliant I need to do this right now. So >> question for you Kevin. What do you think makes the experts so freely giving? Because you don't find that anywhere else. >> It's very unusual. >> Yeah, it's it's some of it is ego. Some of it I think on the experts, you know, they they've they've got an ego. Uh so and they want to one up their other fellow >> expert in the love. So the some of it is like they're like okay I I you know they're usually the most places they go in in around e-commerce they're probably one of the smartest if not the smartest in the room. Um and then when they get in a room where there's other allstars in there and they're like shoot this guy I got I got to up my game. So there there's a compet there's a competitive nature to it. But then a lot of times the experts it's a lot of work. I mean if they do the some of the experts actually do a lot of work. They look at the dossier, they go to your website, they spend some time. Some of them don't. Uh, you know, they just show up and the first time they even know your brand is when they're reading it at the table five minutes before. Um, but most of them, a lot most of them take it seriously and and it's work for them. You know, I remember Steve Simson at one time he had like the first thing I think I had experts doing three or four sessions and I don't do that anymore because it was too much. Um, and then someone like Vanessa Hung, I think it was, was only on one at the first one. She came to me and said, "Kevin, put me on every one of them. Put me in every This is so much fun." And they love giving back. So, they love sharing. And that's one of one of the reasons I curate some of the people. And, you know, you're going to get to [ __ ] every once in a while, but um it and then I go outside of I I'm doing this more and more now. This current next market masters will be over half the people are not from the Amazon world. So, they're not the people that you know or you've seen. So, it's I'm bringing people in from other other genres. And we have one guy doing a hot seat that doesn't even do uh uh Amazon at all. Um he does uh something else. It's going to be interesting. Uh it's more local business type of stuff. So, it's going to be interesting uh to see and he's bringing like two team members with him. But that's that's part of it. And so, the the experts, they get into it. Then some of the experts, they're not allowed to pitch. So, they're not allowed unless I had last time one sponsor. So he was they were allowed to because they were Tik Tok, but they're not allowed to pitch. But by default, it's going to happen. A lot of them offer services and so you're going to see somebody, you're going to go up to them and I go, "Well, I can help you with that. You know, I have an agency." That's okay if it's the reverse. I just don't want them uh doing a hard pitch. And some of them are there because that's, you know, they're hoping to get a client or something out of it, too. I mean, that's because I'm not paying them to be there. I cover their cost. Um um but this year, I'm not even paying their hotel. uh used to I they paid their airfare and I would cover their hotel and then they didn't pay to be at the event. So they get the advantage of networking and everything. This year they got to pay their own hotel uh to be there because now people are beating down the door wanting to be an expert um um at the event. So Kate, what was your hot seat was a little different. So what can you explain your your experience uh with it? Yeah, I think I will never forget the first time I went when I got a mini hot seat and we were we were sitting in the foyer or maybe it was kind of that front living room of the mansion. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And and everybody was just like you could hear a pin drop as I was explaining the mission and to me like I just assumed every entrepreneur thinks that their mission and their business is like the [ __ ] And so I'm like, "Yeah, of course." Like, "I'm going to tell you guys about this." You're like, "Okay, you think you're all that." But like the validation that I got the first year really, really fueled me for a long time. And I just I remember thinking like, "Okay, I have these 1500 pre-orders that first time. I'm going to come back with a full-blown business next year, and I'm going to get a hot seat." And that was a huge milestone for me was like, okay, I'm going to be ready for I'm not only going to be able to afford the hot seat, but I'm also going to be ready for advice that I can like implement into the business. And so that validation piece was huge. But then I think it just like it makes your problems, especially for me as a first- time entrepreneur, seems so much smaller than they are. And it reminds you that like the problem is the way like the the way through is the obstacle. And and having that many brains and brilliant people in a room just all thinking about and not only just like thinking about the problem, but making sure that you're identifying the specific problem that needs to be tackled is so helpful. And it like still like I want to come back and do the hot seat, but I'm the problem right now is like I'm still trying to overcome some of the hurdles that came up on my last hot seat. And um and I I'm already I'm getting out of a business deal that like that came up during the hot seat and would not have those red flags would not have been raised and I my business probably would not have survived that deal had all of that not come up during the last hot seat. So I think one validation and two just like identifying the right problem and making it seem so much smaller than you think it is in your head. >> That was they saved you didn't >> excuse me if I they saved you didn't they from that bad deal if I remember correctly investors or a couple people behind you that they questioned and you're like well no these are everything's okay and then but they're like no you need to make changes. >> Yeah. Yeah. And my instinct was like, "Okay, well, this is my team. Like, I got to stand up for him." Like, but the more I looked into it, the more I was like, "Man, you guys really are kind of screwing me over. Like, this is like I should look into this." And then and then it just kind of devolved from there. But like, and I'll probably like I'll I'll talk about it someday. But yeah, it was it was so helpful. >> Yeah. It's stressful when you hear that though because it's it's like someone saying you need to get you need to divorce your wife. you need you need or your husband or whatever. I mean, you need it's >> it's tough. I mean, we had one I think it was the second market masters uh really nice lady. She made a nice little presentation uh to show everybody uh about her business and really well professionally done. But we told her quit. You need to you need to quit. You just need to go do something else. Get out of this business. And she did u because after talking to her and so we probably saved her from losing a lot of money. So, it's not always it's not always like, "Okay, we're going to make you in the next multi-millionaire." It's sometimes it's like, "You need to go on and do something else." Uh, it's it's like a reality check. It's like a um- which is cool. What did you think last time um about adding the workshops? All of y'all have been to one where there weren't workshops and then we added the workshops element and that was the first time. This time we've refined it and fixed a couple of the issues like we had an audio issue that first day and we fixed a few things but um just generally mixing that in so it's not just all boom boom boom hot seats and some other it's a different style. What what was what are y'all's thoughts on that? >> That was the one thing I was I was bummed I didn't get to like participate in so much last time that I didn't make enough time for this time. that's that's something I'm going to um participate in a lot more especially because one of the best workshops was on AI creative and it it kind of shifted my thinking away from using AI as a brand um and and how to use it and I still use some of those tips that I that I pulled from that specific workshop and again like I'm very ADHD so I'm not one to to say that about a lot of workshops. Yeah, >> I put the workshop on the same level as the hot seat. I mean, it was very very valuable. >> Yeah, I I especially like Matt's uh hot seat because sorry, the workshop because uh he's been he's been someone who I have been seeing for a long time. So, hearing him talk and not just talk but actually showing how to do a lot of things, creatives and everything, it was so exciting to see. It was just it felt like something that is also doable like you know listening to people talk about AI it seems like it's so tough and it's so it's something that's so far-fetched uh you know like something that has to be done professionally but when you see people doing it you're like oh this I can do this as well you know it's not it's not rocket science it's just it has strategy you have to figure out how to use it but you can use it properly and you can actually use it to implement ment in your business and scale which like we're using it now a lot for our meta creatives but so that's where my brain wheels started going around like okay you know what this is doable it's not it's not that tough >> and we've got some cool ones on this one um we got a couple AI because that's the thing right now you know some some AI stuff and then one of them Rob Green is showing how he does like I forget the there's a insane number of uh videos like 5,000 I I I don't have the number right, but 5,000 videos a day, uh, UGC, and they test every single little angle. And so they sent they they create like 5,000 a day for each product, put them out there with like $5 budgets or something like that. So he's spending, you know, not a whole spending a decent amount of money, but it's a couple grand a day, but they're at scale. You know, you don't have to do it at scale. You could do 50 a day. Um, and then they're finding out which ones work, and then they're cancelelling all the others, and then they're getting humans to actually do the ones that work. sort of testing it with AI. AI is not going to do as well as a human. But if it works with AI and the angling and the then come back with a human, it's going to convert better. And they're having massive success. You can show you that whole system. We have someone else, Matt Harris, who's master getting press. So, this is not like, oh, go issue a press release and uh go do this and here's the tool to use and go contact help a reporter out. He's not doing that. He's he sells pearls. He imports pearls from Tahiti and the Cook Islands and stuff. and he's been on Oprah, he's been on Good Morning America, he's been on all this stuff and not by using an agent by doing it himself. He's going to show you the exact methodology to actually get press no matter what you're doing and four page stories and magazines. He's going to show you it's really smart. It's really brilliant. He hasn't really shared that ever before. So, he's going to be sharing that and walking you through that. And there's there's um you know some on images uh create how to use the AI to actually create your images really better or if you got existing images how to make them sparkle even more. And this it's just going to be it's going to be really really cool. I'm excited about it. Um >> I'm so sad to seeing it. >> Yeah, you're going to miss it. You're going to miss it. Anybody that's on this call that wants to come I had some coupons that that expired but I set one up. So, anybody a lot I know a lot of you are watching a replay. Um, but if you want to come either as an audience member or there's one hot seat left right now. There's just one of the nine is left. Um, the you can use the code MM50 off. So, market masters mm50F and that'll knock 50% off um of either an audience ticket or a the last hot seat if if someone wants that. So, that's only good for people that are on this. I'm not going to put that out on an email or put that on any those of you live here today or watching the replay can use that mm50 off. Um, another thing we're doing this time that's different is we're doing a curated dinner. So, I'm part of another mastermind called Four Rooms that Amber Spears does. She's a huge uh she's a she's a huge um affiliate marketer, but she has a a mastermind called Four Rooms. It's like 30 grand a year and I'm a member of that and it's all in it's mostly internet marketing people and e-commerce. It's not all it's not really that's probably four or five Amazon people in there but I get a lot of ideas and a lot of stuff from it. But she does something at her events u where she actually everybody that's attending fills out answers a few questions and and then she curates people together. So we're doing on Friday night we're sending everybody off. We're making reservations at uh like 10 different restaurants. So, it'll be under our name within like a 15 mile radius and we're going to say, "Kate, you and so and so and so and so and so and so and so and so are going to dinner together." And ideally, most of you don't know each other. >> Oh, we're going to have my table's going to be the funnest one for sure. >> And then then one of you is going to be the leader of the table and you're gonna get like a like an envelope that has like three or four questions in it. the icebreaker type of questions, you know, just to get to conversation. Paige, yours won't have a problem, but you know, Ple might need some icebreaker uh questions. >> I I would need that. >> So, and then you're going to go to dinner with uh I forget. It depends on how the numbers work out, but seven to 10 people, maybe six. Six to 10 people depends on how the you know the total final numbers work out. And you're going to have a two and a half hour dinner uh in that's at at a restaurant just with y'all. and you have to get and it and we paired you on purpose because we think you can help each other. So, you're not you don't even have to go find somebody in the house. It's it's a really cool thing. Uh I've gotten a lot of really good value out of it. And some of the conversation is not just business. It's like tell us, you know, crazy story. You know, people be like, "Yeah, when I was 18, I was thrown in jail for cutting down trees at the high school and whatever." So, you get you get to know people. It's it's going to be cool. So, we're we're mixing that in. And we're doing a couple other uh uh really cool things too that that that are new. So each time we have to we I have to up the game uh for what for what we're doing. So if you had to tell somebody what makes market masters different than if you had to sum it up really in like your elevator pitch, you're you're in the elevator. You just got on floor one and you're going up to floor 25 and you had just you know that amount of time to say why should someone go to market masters? What would you say? I'll let each one of you do it. Whoever wants to go first. >> I think my biggest the thing that keeps bringing me back is the it's the incubator sort of nature of it. And it what I mean by that is like in between the workshops and in between all of the other value that you're already getting, there's these couches and countertops and bar stool seats that you you end up, you know, you have to get an email sent or you have to go do something real quick. That's where a lot of value is is derived from me because just some of those side conversations you're just you're you're there the environment is nice and quiet like you can have those really deep dive conversations with people who are truly experts in their field and you can't get that at a conference. I mean, I just just even just with the noise element of a conference where you're trying to like speak over, you know, thousands of people also trying to do the same thing. Being in a an environment like that for 4 days straight where you develop these friendships and relationships that for me, these are lifelong friendships now. These are people that I call at 2 a.m. when I'm like, I have no idea what I'm going to do about this problem. and they pick up every time because of those four days that we've spent together just kind of getting to know each other and getting to know each other's problems and aligning on our values and that's what keeps I think bringing me back. >> Yeah, I I agree. I would say that this ecom business is a very alienating one like you're sitting alone all the time in your head uh berating yourself, keep beating yourself down about things you're not doing right. So, I think find your community who's uh pulling you up, who's telling you you're doing a damn good job, and uh who's going to support you whatever happens. So, find that community. >> I'll share one story. Um the first one there were several of us that got on a WhatsApp group or something and just agreed to meet downtown. We we all end up at the same hotel from the airport. We agreed to ride together. I didn't know either any of these guys and we met and just started going along and somehow the conversation evolved into my large very large inventory and you know 5,000 SKs trying to manage and Chad Rubin was in the car and you know he's another one of those smartest guys in the room that knows this stuff written many many software but um you know we just started having a conversation about it and from the downtown Austin to the mansion he basically laid out the entire solution to my problem. And there was two other people in the car. They were like fiercely taking notes about how to do it. And beyond that, I I went back and set up a spreadsheet and then he said, "Send it to me." He he did it and he redlined it and fixed it and da da da da and I ended up with a fantastic tool to use from that. So that's the way almost everybody is. Everybody's just very open and giving and you don't get that anywhere else. I've I've seen I think maybe it's the intimacy, maybe it's the collective brain power. I don't know. >> Yeah, Jonathan, I'm going to need that from you as well. The age to I I was just working on that. I think I'm going to pick your brain on that now after. There you go. See the small BDSS circle just worked. >> That that's the benefit, you know, we're here to help each other out. we we're not we're not necessarily competing or we're you know it used to be people were like didn't you want to share their brands that was one of the biggest issues for someone's in the hot seat like what if my competitors in the room what if someone's going to steal my ideas and and now if it's like what you said earlier like if you got brand around it you're fine uh and I wouldn't worry you know someone else is selling uh um you know homegoods okay are they gonna they might get some ideas but that applies to them not it's it's not the same uh as applying to you so that's not something really to to worry about, but people used to be really really scared to actually say what they what they were selling because they thought someone's going to steal their idea uh and run with it. And not to say that doesn't happen. Usually Amazon's the one who usually steals the ideas. Um but but it's it's the one you need to worry about. Um but but yeah, so um if do you have I'm gonna open it up just before we close out here just a last few questions. Do you all have a question for each other? So, um, pallet, do you have a question for Jonathan or Kate or for the group, uh, that you just want to throw out there about conferences or market masters or business in general or anything that, uh, you might want to throw out that they can they can answer? >> Uh, yeah, I want to ask Jonathan, what's the biggest win that he got from all these years going to Market Masters? like what's this one biggest win that he considers like that's worth all the money that he spent on it? >> Um I mean I I I like to go back to the trip to Iceland because that was just a phenomenal trip. Um, and still lots lot of content there. But with Market Masters, you know, just having that aha moment, um, you know, hearing it in my first and I think it may have been Rob Green that gave that suggestion and then hearing it the second time and then taking action on it, which I expect to lead to a 10X. So, I I think a 10X is in in the works now. So, I'm going to go ahead and claim that as a win on that. But there's many, many little wins along the way from solving the inventory issue to um well, working on the inventory issue, not solving it. It's an ongoing fight. Um but yeah, just yeah, just the camaraderie and the the the brotherhood, sisterhood, you know, I I think is a win. >> Hey, do you have a question? >> Yeah. What what would you guys say for um if you were looking back and you were in my shoes and you're kind of just I still feel like I'm just starting out like what is the biggest mistake that you would steer me away from? >> I think not forecasting properly. Inventory >> that's so relevant right now. >> I I I made that biggest mistake. I was so bad at inventory forecasting. I finished all my inventory right before prime right before sorry Black Friday the first year and I was for December and it was the shittiest month. I was so sad. >> Oh my god, I'm so close to that same mistake right now. >> And I'll throw in part and parcel to that is cash flow planning right in right in beside that. So they go together. So I just and I've been doing this a long time and I I I remember when I was a very young entrepreneur, somebody gave me a a very simple Excel spreadsheet with cash flow planning percentages almost like >> I want to get that from you. >> But I mean it was so simple and it just worked so well. But until recently I just with the help of AI learned how to do you know advanced cash flow forecasting like why didn't I know this you know why didn't I have been doing this 10 years ago because it just made life so much less stressful you know the money is there you just got you got to use it you got to time it and you know forecast it plan it so every dollar has a name so >> that's so relevant right now yeah I appreciate that >> my question for Pock is Um, you know, what do you would you attribute the top one or two things that helped you realize a one and a half million to 20 million in threeyear jump the quantum leap >> uh adding products consistently. I don't have a very big TAM so I have to keep adding more products uh and that helps in compounding. So, I launch 2.5 products every month and then uh it's obviously not all of them are million-dollar listings, but then some of them just shoot up and some of them just become not fizzle out, but some of them stay at this mid level and then some of them fizzle out. So, I do a lot of test and trial and then uh the second thing is finding more complimentary products that are more massy. So I have a very niche product but then I uh we ended up now like not ended up but we are starting to sell um pillow inserts. So we used to do pillow covers and now we start selling inserts. So, it's a very massy product, but uh it's going to get us into a lot more doors uh into our customers houses compared to this brand, but it'll also open doors to more eyeballs on this brand when a more massy product goes in their houses. So, just brand visibility increases with a more massy product. And then uh other the biggest thing for us that's worked has been influencer marketing and we've been very consistent in since day one because that's our biggest uh growth driver with the lowest cost because we only do uh we don't do paid we only do uh product collaborations and they've been very consistent about that. We've not even if it's a it's a influencer with 1 million followers, we're still sticking to our guns and stay sticking to one uh theory like one strategy. >> So that's helped us because otherwise >> they all talk to each other and they say you know if you're giving money to that influencer why are you saying no? So all they kind of know that this is our brand strategy now they don't even ask. So um I think those are a couple of things that we've and just like trying new things and we've burned like a lot of money in trying new products but till the time we don't try we're not going to know which ones are going to work which ones are not going to work >> always be launching and always be learning right >> always >> ABL ABL >> one of the things that y'all said earlier was the environment can you talk about the environment this is not in a conference hall or in a hotel and Market Masters is in 18,000 square foot mansion that's decorated like the Gatsby from the 1920s. Has a pickle indoor pickle ball courts and has a bar and a casino and a even a movie theater. We won't really use it, but a movie theater and it's like three stories. Can you talk about how that's how that helps the process of learning and networking? I think you kind of touched on earlier uh Kate where as you said it's quiet but >> but that I think that's an important thing and there's been people say hey you should move uh move move this off to do in another city or move it off to something else and we can't find anything better Mark and I have tried to find other locations and that some might kind of work but it's like it's just not the same. So, what is it about the mansion that uh that you could describe to people like that really helps? >> It's like the It's like the ghosts of the gangsters that came before us in that mansion. Like it feels very gangster. That's what it feels like cuz it's like there's like a cigar room. There's like gambling tables. Like it you just walk in and you're just like, "Oh, like this is legit." Like I just something about the energy of that space just makes it feel so it's like this is this is what dreams are made of. I love that mansion. Like someday I think my goal is to buy that mansion and just I'll just sponsor all the future market masters. >> That's a good goal. I'll be there. Yeah, >> I'd say the the intimacy of the of the event, number one, but then number two, there's so many different places you can, you know, get in private. You can sit on the couch, you go in the cigar bar, you can go on the on the pool deck, you can go on the raetball court or the pokeball court, you know, you there's a picnic table outside, you can go go for a walk down the street. There's just if you want to get away and have one-on-one with somebody, you know, there's hundred different varieties, you know, you can >> Yeah, it's it's it's so funny. I was I've always attended Market Masters and I was used to the environment of it being quiet and very relaxed and then went to the Seattle Accelerate and I was like, "Oh my god, this is so big. There's too many people." And my husband's like, "You cannot expect it to be the same when there's 20 people compared to 2,000 people." And I was like, "No, I can't do this. This is too much." So, yeah, it's like a huge huge difference to any conference where there are just so many people like Kate said, there's just so many people talking to each other. They're trying to put their word in and it's just it's hard to talk to each other while, you know, market mass is very chilled out, very quiet, very relaxed. You can have a chat while eating your food. You can do whatever. is like really relaxed. >> You can smoke a cigar. You can sit back in your chair. You can, you know. >> Yeah. >> 70 or so 70 or so people and half of them are experts. So the ratio is really good. >> And and there's even a helicopter pad. And this year we actually, I think, are going to use it. Um Oh my gosh. Someone's going to get a surprise. >> Uh uh and we're actually going to use the helicopter pad uh for something. I'm not going to spill the beans here, but >> that's a good idea. >> Going to You're going to take a trip somewhere and do something really cool with something one of the brands has built. Um, but >> how about a ride in the Gatsby Sports Coupe? >> Yeah, that that would be pretty cool, too. One that once in Oh, this year we're not doing So, this year um if you've been before and you're watching this, you've been before, we usually do the uh the the hot seats are done and there's like a garage. It's like a It's a nice garage, but it's like a separate building and it's getting too crowded in there. Uh, and so what we're doing is we're doing the hot seats in the pickle ball court. So, we're actually >> Oh, that's smart. >> Setting that up. >> It's an indoor pickle ball court. So, we're setting that up. One half of the court uh to actually do the hot seats there that are open. And then the ones that are closed because there's two right now of the eight that are sold, two of them want to be closed, those will be in the garage. Um, so >> did you guys get that approved by Janelle? Is she gonna be okay with the pickle ball courts being closed? >> Uh, well, there's still one of them will still be you still be able to use it. Yeah. >> Okay, good. >> I'm just now sending out the invites to the experts. Um, so uh um we'll see if she's I don't even know if she's coming yet because I wanted everybody in the past sometimes I would just seed it with some of the dream 100. I would say okay you and you and you you can come. And I would just make it work. This time I'm trying to force it more and not just like, okay, you're a dream 100 person. Uh, all right, you fit well with Johnson saying, but I'm like, no, you need to really fit. So, and and I'm cutting it to six experts instead of eight so that each one of them has more time. >> That's good. >> So, um, and so, and I'm wanting to make sure that they're they're on point. There's nobody there that's just like, you know, um, there was a chair open kind of thing or something. Um, so um I'm really trying to really hone it in. Um, so it's it should be it should be cool. Well, if any last words from from any of y'all before we wrap this up. >> May the force be with you. >> May the force be with you. >> If you have any any hesitancy, don't. Success won't wait. >> Yeah. Just go for it. I I tell everyone that Kevin, I'm your biggest pro uh marketing person. Okay, you need to give me a commission. I tell everyone, just do it. Go for it. Do the thing. >> I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Awesome. Well, I I appreciate all three of you joining today and taking some time out and and doing this. I appreciate those of you that are on here live. Those of you that are watching the replay, join us live sometime. It's cool when you when when it's live. Um but let me see. There's someone typic um Okay. Um Oh, is Frank still here? He asked a question. Oops. Oh, Frank still here. So, Frank, your question, uh you said you're coming to the event. You think your flight gets in kind of early on Thursday. Is it okay to come to the house noonish? Um it's we can't we're still setting up so um it you'll get an email but it'll be about uh 3:00 or so uh before you can check in. I think it says 4, but around 3 should be okay. But yeah, what a lot of people do is they just hang go downtown and grab go get some barbecue at Terry Blacks or something like that if you if you arrive too early or there will be a WhatsApp group as well that you will have access to before the event. So, you can post in there and you can say, "Hey, uh, I'm I'm uh I'm arriving at, you know, 10 a.m. Anybody else arriving early? Want to grab uh lunch together?" And you can do that. And then you can have a car ride out to the mansion because it's about 30 40 minutes from downtown. And maybe what happened with Jonathan will happen with you. Someone in the in the car will give you some life >> solve a problem, get give you something. >> Cool. Well, looking forward to seeing you there, uh, Frank. Uh thanks again uh and uh Kate and Jonathan. Appreciate uh you guys coming on today and uh take care everybody and have a great uh great rest of your day and great weekend. Appreciate it. >> Thanks everybody. All right.