Make Better Decisions for Your Agency with George Arabian | Ep #776

Make Better Decisions for Your Agency with George Arabian | Ep #776 Speaker 2: I want you to stop working for free. If you're tired of getting ghosted on proposals, the endless follow-ups and We'll think about it as a response. There's a better way. The top agencies aren't sending proposals. They're getting paid to pitch and close bigger deals way faster. I want you to grab this free resource I just put together at agencymastery360.com slash strategy. That's agencymastery360.com slash strategy and you'll learn how to flip the script if you want to get paid for your expertise instead of giving it away for free. Speaker 3: Hey, George, welcome to the show. Speaker 1: Thanks, Jason. How are you, man? Speaker 3: Yeah, man. I'm excited to have you on. So tell us who you are, what you do. Speaker 1: Cool. Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker 1: George Arabian. I am the CEO founder of Envision. We are a full service digital marketing agency up here in Toronto, Canada. Speaker 3: How'd you start an agency? Accidental? Planned? What? Speaker 1: You know what, it was very accidental in the way I started. I used to build computers when I was like 12, 13 years old. So I was a big tech nerd, I guess. So I used to build computers up until the age of like 17, 18. Somebody came up to me in the early stages of the internet and said, hey, I need you to build me an internet. What are you talking about? We need an internet. It's like, yeah, man, I've got this hockey shop down in Toronto. We need an internet. Like, you mean the web thing? Like the sites? He's like, yeah, this is like early 90s. Everyone started buying HTML for dummies, JavaScript for dummies books. And put in about 500 hours into my first web project for his little hockey shop, pay me 400 bucks. Speaker 2: 400 bucks. Speaker 3: I got your beat. Mine was 500. So I paid him 400 bucks. Speaker 1: I was like, this is the best 400 bucks I ever earned, man, because I learned so much about the world of internet coding and whatnot. And so that led to like, yeah, I got, I know a guy who needs one of these things. Speaker 3: What'd you charge for that one? Speaker 1: That one, I charged probably 800 bucks. Speaker 3: I doubled my rates and I thought I was being like, so you went from 75 cents an hour to a dollar 50 an hour. Speaker 1: Yeah, I did it faster. I did it much faster. So I started to learn to kind of repeat some of the same things and leverage some of those assets and whatnot. Yeah. I mean, then one thing led to another and here, here I am, I guess now 30 years after that, but I started the agency about 21 years, but it was building web for about 30 years now. Speaker 3: It's really cool how things have changed and not changed. Everyone needs a website and the basics are still there, but obviously now you can have AI create a website like that. It's really cool how technology has changed, you know, over the years. What was it like, like when you hit the decade mark, where was the agency, where was your mindset and how is that different from today? Speaker 1: I think one of the things I really love about the space that we're in is that we're kind of like we're math scientists. We're always experimenting. We have a hypothesis and then we explore and we experiment. So a decade in is no different than it is today, where I'm still kind of experimenting. You know, it's some mornings I wake up and I'm like, I'm still unclear what the future looks like in this space because it adapts and evolves and AI obviously is changing the landscape. But 10 years in, we were probably at about Five to eight employees, I can't remember exactly. We're a small little firm doing, you know, projects in the range of, you know, five to 20 grand. So nothing, no big six figure projects or multimillion dollar projects or anything like that. It was really like we're building custom websites. And then we started sprinkling in marketing. You know what I'm getting at? Now you have this entity out in the world that you've got to attract. We're going to attract audiences to come to this entity to ultimately convert them, right? So we started toying with integration of SEO and ad advertising and social, and that led to email and CRM and our content marketing initiative. What are we for? And I know your big thing is niching, you know, you're really finding your niche. And, you know, that's been way heavy on me to really like try to define that. And it's so challenging when you kind of want to do a lot. Speaker 3: What's the challenging part about what do you think you were fearful of or maybe still fearful of with niching down? Speaker 1: Getting bored. I think I've like part of, you know, I've had interviews with my staff. One of them in particular, the first thing she asked me when I interviewed her eight or nine years ago was, What's your niche? And I'm like, oh, niche. Like, I don't want a niche. Like, you want me to build websites for like the real estate industry and just focus on that? I mean, there's players out there who do that great. I just don't think I'm caught that way. I think I would get very bored of the same old rinse and repeat. I love continual challenge. So my niching has like, you know, through And being part of Agency Mastery, like my mission has become there, really centering our products and services around creating human connection. And I'm not sure how to necessarily tell that narrative yet, but that's where our agency is going. We are human to human. Speaker 3: I like that too, right? And I always tell people there's so many different ways to niche down. You know, it's not all about picking like your example, a real estate market and just doing that. And it's also, you can build multiple niches. You just have to have people in charge of those. And when we first started off and really kind of niching down, it was more for around the technology first. And then as we got a lot of momentum, then we started adding industries or different things out there. But it just, it gives you a huge leg up, but it does take a while to figure it out. You know, I was chatting with, you know, Jack, one of your fellow members, And he went to me eight years ago, he niched down to the landscaper market. And he goes, it was the best thing I've ever done, but it was the scariest thing I've ever done in the business. Cause he was the same thing. I felt like I'd get bored, but now he's like a local celebrity, um, in the landscaper market. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 3: And George, I think that's the best kind of celebrity, right? You can go to the events and be the celebrity there, but then you can go out to go get a cup of coffee, go to a movie, go to a restaurant. No one ever bothers you. Like I would hate to be the rock. We're someone really famous. Or like we were talking about Hulk Hogan, like how George met Hulk Hogan in Tampa when he went down to Florida. We were talking about it in the pre-show. Like imagine being him, like you can't go anywhere without, you know, his people going, get away, brother. What has it been like transforming from the agency owner to the agency CEO? Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what, the challenge is kind of like compound, right? As the larger your agency gets, the more complex the challenges become. And it's really difficult. It was for me. I know others, you know, peers of mine who struggle with the same sorts of things. And it's, you know, reassuring when I hear their stories. But for me, there's such an emotional connection because I started this thing 21 years ago. And I was intimately involved and I know how to let go and delegate. I mean, I'm not certainly come a long way. But one of the things that's always challenging is how do you ensure that you're still caring for the people here, but making the right choices for the agency as well. And you know, you got to set emotion aside. And that's something that's, you know, for me, based on who I am and my upbringing, very challenging, a very challenging thing to do. Because we genuinely, I think most agency owners, the ones I talked to in the group, The ones I talked to who I've known for years, we generally do care. Most agency owners do care about the people they work with. So I had to develop a second persona, which is like an alter ego. Speaker 3: Like full-blown conversatory, right? Speaker 1: Yeah, it was interesting because for me, a lot of the decisions I was making were based solely on emotion and solely on how do I ensure the well-being of this individual that's involved in this particular scenario, good, bad, or indifferent. It's not always, you know. Doom and gloom, in this particular scenario, emotion plays a large part of our decision-making process. So I said, okay, one morning I woke up and I said to my wife, hey, I'm going to work. My first day on the job, I said, what are you talking about? I'm like, I just got hired by this agency who wants me to come run the company. I'm going into with literally that mindset and I had to do it that way because I knew no other way. And so I get to work and I didn't tell any of the staff. I'm not introducing myself. I'm just kind of there as I'm observing everything around me and I'm just making notes. I'm sitting in on meetings that I wouldn't necessarily sit in on. I'm just inviting myself. Check out what goes on in these meetings. I just want to feel it, you know, like kind of inefficiencies there maybe, or maybe there's great efficiency. So, you know, this took about a quarter of observation and then it really allowed me to identify gaps and issues without putting the bullshitting first. So that was my solution to trying to get me as a guy who wears his heart on his sleeve Put that aside and to be like, dude, the agency is an entity as well that needs to be catered and taken care of. You cannot treat it as it's just the thing. It is an entity just like a human being is an entity. Speaker 3: I like that you said, I'm starting my new job today. Now, have you gone through the process of being a little bit depressed? Like, have you gone into a meeting and be like, George, I don't need you. I'm good. And then go another one. I'm good. Speaker 1: Yeah. I, I, no, no word of a lie. I literally had this happen to me today. I'm not even joking this morning. I sat in on a meeting and two of my senior staff are like, You don't need to be part of these. Stop being part of these. And I'm like, huh, so I'm not needed? You know, the feeling of like not being needed? Speaker 3: Which is our worst fear. I mean, remember like going back to, you know, grade school and people were picking like everyone picking and you never want to be the one pick last or not picked. Right. With the team. Speaker 1: But, you know, putting on. So again, in that particular scenario, when I put on the new CEO persona, when I'm that guy and it's, it's so absurd. Conceptually, maybe for people listening, but when I'm that guy, I get to decide if I'm sitting in on that meeting or not. Because if I find it important to be part of a meeting because I'm trying to course correct something that I don't see going the way I want, then I'll make that decision versus the other guy who's the emotional heart on his sleeve guy who's like, Okay, not wanted. Let me step aside and let them do their thing and hope for the best. And I think the one thing that we, again, I failed to realize, I think at one point along the ways, There's a huge dependency on the leadership team and the CEO to set the path, to provide a clear message and direction, and make sure that that's articulated all the way down to the most junior staff. And I think that accountability is on you. Speaker 2: Hi there, agency owners. Let me ask you, are you ready to scale your agency without increasing your overhead costs? If yes, then you need to know about E2M Solutions. Now, E2M is the number one most reliable white label partner for agencies. They specialize in web design, WordPress development, e-commerce, SEO, and content writing. They basically do all the heavy lifting, which frees you up to focus on growing your agency. Now, here's the best part. E2M is just not another vendor. With over 10 years of experience, their team of over 300 experts has a track record of delivering for more than 300 agencies. They're your strategic partner. They deliver on time every time so you can focus on what you do best. Now, E2M's mission is simple, to help 500 agencies increase their revenue and profit margins with white label services that actually work. And to help you get started, they're offering a special deal, 10% off for the first three months. But act fast because it's only a limited time offer. So head over to e2msolutions.com slash Smart Agency to check out their transparent and their flexible pricing. Trust me, if you're ready to grow without burning out, e2m is the partner you've been looking for. That's e2msolutions.com slash Smart Agency. Go check them out and tell them Jason Swenk sent you. Speaker 3: It all starts with the leadership and the realization of going, you know, like I would say in the mastermind, when people are like, well, how do I do this? I'm like, you're asking the wrong question. It should be who. Who do you need to have to do this? I can figure this out. Or who do you need to become in order to give the power to your team in order to do this? Because if you think back at your 21 years of growing the agency and Bravo for 21 years, right? Like we just hit 10 years. I was excited. And then the agency I sold hit 12 years. So like, I can only imagine when we hit 20 years, like how excited I'll be. But when you're, you're doing it, you have to kind of step back. And I like how you said, take out the emotions and be like, here is where we're going. And then I felt like there was a transition where my team wasn't working for me. I was working for them. Right. Did you, have you gone through that yet? Like where you're like, how can I support these guys and gals in order to help them get to where they need to be both personally and on the business side and take the agency to the next level where they start making the right decisions. They become the leaders and then you can kind of step back and you get that freedom that we've always wanted. Speaker 1: For sure. To answer your question. Yes. But it was done with crayons. So as you mature as a business owner, the crayons evolve to pencil crayons and pens, and then eventually formal documents. And then your ability to articulate and communicate effectively becomes better and more honed in. So I think it's an evolution, man. I think when I first started, it was like, we've been doing this annual retreat thing for probably We've been together 16 of the last 21 years, right? So every year we get together. And the first year, I'm sure if I would recall 60 years ago if I were sitting there, it was a dinner and it was like, okay, this year. Here's the goal. High five, let's have dinner, let's have some drinks and celebrate. And then a year would pass and be like, hey, we did pretty good this year, but we didn't really... Did anybody write it down? What were we doing this year? What were we supposed to be tracking? And now we have tools and we have formal documentation of what we're trying to accomplish. What are our OKRs? What are our main KPIs? I think that takes a level of maturing. If you were to ask me, tell me your KPI when I'm in my early 20s versus today. Speaker 3: You'd be like, what's the KPI? Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, it comes with being part of communities, learning from others, reading. I mean, I'm kind of a, you know, I read a ton of books and whatever. So you try to learn from every little place you can, right? I think you said evolution, man. Speaker 3: Yeah. Other than setting the vision and communicating it to your team, what are your other roles now that you're the true CEO in your mind? Speaker 1: Yeah. So I used one of the techniques. I think it was part of, I'm pretty sure it was part of a conversation within the group again. And it was, so I was so grateful that this came up. It was, what do you want to do? What do you want to do? Document this. I think you might've said it to us. And so I drew up my circle and I put it down and I shared it with the whole group. And one of the things I love to do is I love to mentor. I love to create content. I love to go after and support landing the big whales. Like the minnows and the fish are great, but I want the challenges. So there's really defining the things I love to do versus those I don't. So it's allowed me to do that, to focus on the big things that I need to do to move the agency forward. That is the new role is having clear boundaries of that's not a me thing. That's a you thing. You got to take care of this. Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody thinks, and there's so much of the wrong content out there of talking about, here's how to get the best clients. Here's how to generate, you know, the biggest pipeline, all that kind of stuff. When you have to think about if you're struggling with that, do you have clarity, both clarity for the business, but also clarity for your role and what your role needs to be in the agency, right? You know, the exercise that you went through was really kind of happened when I went to a job interview when I was about to close down my agency. And they asked me, what do you want to do? What don't you never want to do? And so that's what gave me clarity of going like hit rock bottom. And I heard a great quote. I don't know who said this, but it was kind of cool. It's like when you feel the world is like crashing in on you and all this dirt and you're buried in the ground, you're not buried, you're planted. And I thought that the coolest thing of being like, Hey, I'm planning in this ground, I can actually grow. And so when I actually started thinking of those questions, I was like, well, like you just said, I love mentoring people. I love being the face of the organization. I love assisting on big relationships. And then, you know, I knew I had to be forced to understand the KPIs of the financials or understand the spreadsheets that, you know, my fellow nerds that I love are sending me. Right. And then you can grow, but like, do you feel like you have more freedom now that now that you have that clarity? Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's getting there. I mean, I'm not exactly where I'd like to be just yet, but I've certainly taken strides in the right direction. And now my ability to convey this to the leadership team in a cohesive, concise manner is much better than it was before because I'm looking at things very objectively and putting the emotion aside. I can't, if I'm speaking honestly, some days are harder than others. Some days you're just emotionally attached to something or a situation, you know, so context matters. But yeah, I would say I'm better equipped today than I was, say, six months ago. Speaker 3: And people think when you hit there or you have certain level, all your challenges go away. The solutions that solve your challenges yesterday are going to create new problems. And don't get into this business if you don't like solving problems, like it's just constant and there's constant ups and downs. I mean, we're, we're all on this hamster wheel. And the bigger you get, the more challenges you get. And then it's like, all right, how do I figure this out? But it's all about just trying to get around that wheel a little bit quicker the second time and then a little bit quicker the third time. And then you like recognize certain patterns in order to make better decisions. That's the beauty about what we do and that's why we get the freedoms because we're solving these big challenges rather than just going to a nine-to-five job. Speaker 1: Keeps it exciting, that's for sure. Speaker 3: George, this has been amazing. Is there anything I did not ask you that you think would benefit the listeners listening in? Speaker 1: I think the only thing that I would say for anybody who's struggling, who is an emotional individual, and there's a lot of us out there, Don't feel afraid to try to put on a new hat or create a new personality because I think it could help you look at things slightly differently and could help you make good decisions for whatever type of organization you're working in. Speaker 3: Yeah, I like that. You almost got to kind of develop an alter ego. And one of my coaches in a long time ago, he used to work with Kobe Bryant. And he helped develop the mentality of the Black Mamba of like, I am on the court, I will seek and destroy, you know, I will be the best and all that. But then off the court, because you can't be that, right? You can't be cutthroat in one and then go back to your other life. You have that same persona, like you kind of transform into that. And I really do like that you mentioned that, George, about kind of have these two personas. You know, I have this hat on, I'm going to do this. And it just keeps you focused. And then you're like, when you go home, you can take the hat off and you're not always thinking about the business, even though it's kind of hard to shut it off. Speaker 2: But for certain times, depending on what you're doing, right? Speaker 3: That's why I learned how to fly a plane. Like when I'm in a plane, I don't think about anything about agency mastery. I'm just trying to think, how do I not die? Or yeah, I got into pickleball, like when I played pickleball, which is hilarious because I grew up playing tennis. I played in college. I'm like, pickleball is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. I'm addicted to it. It's crazy. I love it. Speaker 2: I love it. I love it. Speaker 3: But when I'm playing, I don't think about anything else. So I'd like the different hats. And then it gives you that freedom to not have to worry, damn, am I going to make payroll today? Speaker 1: Might sound foolish, but it helps. It's helped me tremendously. Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, awesome. Speaker 3: What's the agency website? People can go and check you guys out. Speaker 1: Go to Envision.co and we're on all the main channels, all the main social channels as well under slash Envision at Envision at Envision Solutions. Speaker 3: Well, cool. Well, George, thanks so much for coming on and sharing what your new hats are that you're wearing and your story. And if you guys enjoyed this episode and you want to be around other amazing agency owners and be in a community where people can see the things That you might see because they're not emotionally attached to them. I'd love to invite you guys to have a conversation with us. Go to agencymastery.io and see if you're right for the community. Speaker 2: If we can help you out, point you in the right direction. And until next time, have a Swenk day.