Is Selling on Amazon Dead?

Jeff Bezos, our margin is his opportunity. I mean, back then it was cheap to store your products to get them shipped out. You had more visibility on the search engine. They gave us all these things that made everyone want to do this business and then little by little like, oh, we're going to have these like long-term storage fees. Oh, we're going to increase the cost per shipment based upon the volume, not just the weight of this thing. The fact that we're no longer pushing straight towards Amazon makes finding a product easier. Cuz if you push straight towards Amazon, you have a whole list of things that you need to check off your list. the cost, the advertising, the competition, the reviews, the velocity. It's a whole formula. If you focus on buying the right product and you control the channel where you get people, like let's say Meta, you control where you're sending to your own landing page, no competition there. You control the whole experience. You control the customer lifetime value because you offer the upsells that you can't do on Amazon. You're no longer playing Amazon space. And so any product, any product could work right now. And it's not that Amazon's a bad channel. It just can't be your primary channel. You're watching the marketing misfits with Norm Ferrar and Kevin K. >> Hey, we got our Coke Zeros. I mean, right, right, Norm. Cheers. Norm drinks more Coke Zeros, I think, than What do you drink? About 12 a day. >> More than that? >> More than that? More? How? More? >> Yeah. So at least 12 a day >> and these are Canadian version so they're like that big right? >> Yeah these are small you know it's not like the Canadian currency where you know it's in pool these are yeah minor >> all I know is when we smoke a cigar on my balcony when you come to Austin you're always going through like three of these in one cigar and I'm still like halfway through my first one and I thought I drank a lot. >> Yep. Nope. That's me. So, what have you been doing the last every night since we've been here? You've been excited. You've been had like glow on your face like I'm out of here. What you been doing? >> Do you see me do this? >> I do. >> Okay. A few times. Well, one thing every night and if anybody wants to join us, we're always going out for cigars. >> Cigars. So, we Norm, as most of many of you know, or if you haven't figured out already, if you look at the little logo, Norm is huge into cigars. And Norm is I I've I smoked my first cigar in Cuba in 2008 cuz in Cuba you do what you do in Cuba and everybody said Cuba Cuba is the place for cigars. And then I I met Norm uh about 10 9 10 years ago at one of our events and didn't smoke a cigar there. I didn't realize he's cigar smoker but as we got to know each other at different events he's like I'm going for a cigar. Why don't you come with me? So, I started going and smoking cigars with him, and I would only smoke at events. And then I started getting into a little bit when I never smoked at my house, but I would buy stuff. I have a a habit of actually buying um things that I don't really need uh just because they're cool and I'm there. So, I've built up a collection about 1,500 cigars of some of these are like $200 per cigar. And so, um, just probably last October, I actually started smoking alone. And it's actually one of the best things that I've probably ever done because you I go out on my balcony. I have a balcony that overlooks the river in downtown in Austin. I take my little puppy, a little 11-month old puppy out there, and I sit there for about an hour, play with her so I have some bonding time with her and train her. And then I just smoke and I think. And some of my best ideas, they always say good ideas come when you're in the shower because you're clearing your mind. My best ideas come now when I'm smoking a cigar. >> You mean I gave you a good idea? >> That's the second one you've g 10 years. So it's it's really good. So it's it's to me that's what it's about now. And when you're in I mean Norm, when you're smoking a cigar like in a lounge, what is it about smoking a cigar that just brings people together? >> It was really bizarre. And we experienced this at the big smoke. So, this is a community of cigar crazies and there was a ton of people that we never met before and we all sat down. It was a networking session before the event. And guess what? We were talking, not us. We're too smart for that. Politics and religion came up. Now, in this day and age, you don't talk politics, you don't talk religion. And guess what? We didn't end up hating each other. We had really cool conversations. And that's what happens when you go into a cigar lounge. Like you might say, "Oh, cigar smoking is bad. It sucks." Well, it's something that you come in, you can watch this. A person come in stressed. It could be any walk of life, just stressed. They have a cigar, they go and sit down and it's completely eliminated. And you can talk to anybody at any time. And uh yeah, just >> Yeah. I mean, one of the the guys that works with us in Dragonfish, uh, Dan Curts, some of you may have met him out out of the booth or you saw him talk with Norm. We actually met him over cigar. We were at an event, an AI event in, uh, Orlando, and Norm and I were out smoking. He came out like, "Hey, what do you do?" And we just started and made a relationship. So, there's lots of relationships created off of that, too. And then Norm and I do an event called Collective Mind Society, or CMS for short. And the last one we did was in Tampa, Florida last November. And it was a cigar event. And you might be, why'd you do a cigar event in Tampa? Uh, isn't Cuba or Miami? Tampa is the capital of cigars in the world. There's more cigar culture. If you go to Austin, it's all barbecue. If you go other places, you know, it's different things, but Tampa is like a cigar mecca because about 100 years ago, 130,000 Cubans moved to Tampa and they set up all these factories. It just the culture pervaded. So, we actually did a event there. We had nine guys. Dan Ashurn was with us. Dan Kurts was with us. Abe it's here are speaking later today was with us and for a weekend basically a Thursday to a Sunday night. We hit three cigar bars a day. Went on a little cruise in the bay. Ate some really good steaks and good food. And the bonding that happened on over those days and that stories that were told, personal stories and business stories and some of the information that came out. Oh, have you tried this tool? Are you doing this? I'm like, oh, everybody's taking notes. It's crazy. >> Thank you. It was it was above what we thought would happen. The bonding between what 12 15 people. >> Yeah. >> All of a sudden we became like we didn't know each other and then we became great friends over cigars. So it's so weird how it works. So what we want to do as as many of you know we have the marketing Misfits podcast. We've been doing that for two years and every single Tuesday there's a brand new episode that comes out. Both Makina and uh Forbes that you've seen on the stage here have been guest. Uh se All Adley that spoke yesterday has been a guest. So if you want to hear some cool stuff, you can go back and listen to her. Um it's not an Amazon podcast and we do have a few Amazon guests like Gracie or a few others. U but they it's mostly marketing. So similar to like the psychology presentation I did, but then we just started something else, Norma, like a month ago. What was that? >> The newsletter. A lot of people don't realize that the marketing misfits has newsletters. If you got a great following, there's some really great content that would just blow your mind from some of the people that we've had on. And by the way, the way that they get on, they have to do one thing. They have to be something or somebody that thinks outside of the box. It's just not a marketer. They think out of the box to be successful or they had to overcome some crazy hurdle. We're not going to call it a failure, but a crazy hurdle to become successful. So each of these podcasts um are now in um is in a newsletter format. >> Yeah. So what we've done the podcasts are like an hour but not everybody doesn't have an hour to listen to the podcast. But if you can take the nuggets out of that and distill those down and that's what we've done in the newsletters. Two years worth of content plus the new stuff and grouped stuff together and put that in a newsletter that comes out for free every every single Wednesday. And there's just tons of value in there that a lot of you could apply to your business no matter what you're selling. >> And there's no selling. It's just there's no ads or anything in it as of now. There might be down the road, but as of now there there's there's no ads because we're just building it up. >> So, what we want to do right now is before we bring out our guest is a little special. If you subscribe to the newsletter, it's free. Uh if you subscribe to the newsletter, we're going to give away a prize at the end of this podcast. So, anybody that subscribed, if you already subscribed since you've been here, you're you're entered. But if you hasn't subscribed, just scan that QR code or just go to misfits.news. You can unsubscribe if you don't like it. You're like, "Oh, this is not for me." Just unsubscribe. You're not going to get spammed or anything like that. And then we're going to give away one of these three prizes at the bottom. So, someone here, you got to be present to win. So, if you walk out, you're not going to be able to get this, but I'm going to give a a billion dollar Sellers Club annual membership. It's worth about uh 1,200 bucks. Or you can choose a Market Masters audience ticket uh to to come to Austin in August. It's worth 4,000 bucks. Or you can come on, if you're a cigar smoker, like whiskey and cigars, you can come on our next CMS trip, uh, which is going to be in February, February 18th to the 22nd of next year. >> And you what's I want to scan. So I can >> You want to scan? You want Yeah. You want that one? >> Yeah. >> Um, so somebody's going to get their choice of one of those three if you sign up to the newsletter, whichever one you want. Uh, so we'll leave that up for just a second. But, you know, speaking of uh someone thinking outside the box, uh even the way he's dressed today is kind of thinking outside the box. >> Little Red Rooster. >> Little Red Rooster. Our our guest today is Mike McCclary. Some of you may know him. Um he's a Dream 100 member uh in my Dream 100. He's been around this space for quite some time and now he works heavily with amazing.com. um he was first like a a student of them and then he actually worked with them and now he's the CEO of amazing.com and uh he's got a lot of cool stories and I think you're going to really enjoy what we've talked about. So go ahead and uh Mike McLaren are you back there? Can you fly out? Whoop. >> Oh, man. How about you go, man? Good to see you. Good to see you. How you guys doing? All right. So, what's up with the 1980s jumpsuit? >> Well, most people aren't old enough to remember uh the Bne Man Steve Austin. So, I was challenged to to make a funny video at one point in time and so I got this I was actually doing something for Alibaba and and they said make it unique and I don't think they realized who they were talking to. And so, I decided I want to make this unique and do something that I'd never really done before. And so, I grew out a big handlebar mustache. I put this on and I made a video kind of marking one of their new tools out there that was me as handlebar mic, you know, 1980s action star. Um, and and just kind of doing every crazy thing I've ever wanted to do. And so it was fun just kind of being a different alter ego for a while cuz you don't have to like worry about being on stage and talking to people like this. And then I did this and I got on this outfit up here and I don't really know why I have it on right now, but it's darn comfortable. Oh, >> what do you got on under it? >> You'll find out. >> Okay. So, so, so Mike, tell us just a little bit what what is your background in this space? Why, why should someone uh listen to what you have to say? Um, well, one thing is like probably the most important reason is just as I was a student of the whole industry back in 2013. Um, typical corporate guy working a finance job and I was miserable. like, you know, I traveled an hour in traffic every single day, worked in an office, uh had, you know, employees that I was working with, had two weeks vacation, and it's it's exactly like some of you probably heard the story before, and like it hasn't changed. It's the exact same thing because I really was looking for a way out, and I happened to get like an email from from Matt Matt Clark, who I saw earlier, and it was the biggest scammy email I ever heard because called the amazing selling machine. never heard a worse, you know, title for a program my entire life because it just sounded like it's got to be fake. So, I didn't tell my wife I was signing up for it. Said, "I'm just gonna give it a shot." I got a refund period, so I'll give it a shot. >> That's was like $5,000 or something. >> Yeah. Well, it's it was 3500 startup pack. Uh it was like their biggest their first launch, not their biggest, their first one. And I figured out I got to just give it a shot because it sounds interesting. And then like everyone else here, it opened my eyes up to what's possible. I had no idea what private label was. I had no idea that you can actually buy products that are unbranded, have your own brand put onto them. There's manufacturers, you know, across the world in China or in here for like supplements that will make products for you. I assumed that all these big companies out there were had their own factories everywhere. I was like that clueless about this business back then. And once I realized they didn't, that there's this powerhouse of manufacturing in certain parts of the world and that they're looking for people to create brands because that's not their expertise, like a big light bulb went off my head and I I I just went all in. Uh, and you know, launched my own brand back in 2013. Did a leather conditioner. Uh, did really well for a while and then I got my my butt kicked by some people that ended up working with uh, like AJ Patel to like launch their zesty paws later on. So, if you're going to get your butt kicked, not a bad person to have that happen to. Uh, then I went and launched my own brand of like lanterns and flashlights. Still sell those today. Still operate my own business today. Uh because one of the things I always think that people in the space, which I love about you guys and so many people here, is you have to do what you teach. Otherwise, you're just one of the people with a Lambo and a red jumpsuit. Uh just cuz I teaching stuff out there. And so I always want to make sure that I I I do everything that I teach. That's why I don't like for example, I don't teach Tik Tok shop. I have several people come up to me and ask me like, "Hey, how do we get into like how do we start making sales on Tik Tok shop?" I haven't been able to. And so like you're asking the wrong person. That's not my specialty. Hopefully after this event, I'm going like give it another shot because I've learned a lot of things here. I'll give it a shot again. Uh but I think one of the most things most important things in the space is authenticity. You said it actually just a little bit earlier today too and it kind of resonated me. Being authentic, not wearing a red jumpsuit all the time, but being authentic, and maybe that is me, maybe I'm just goofy all the time. You guys know that being authentic is the most important thing in the space because you tell the good, the bad, all the true stories that can go well and all go wrong. Uh and I got a chance to experience that. And and believe me, like it has not been a pleasure cruise, not the love boat the entire time. There's been times where terrible things have happened in my business, other people's businesses, and you recover makes you stronger. And how many people can say they're still here after like 13 years industry? Not a lot of people. So if you're one of those people like give yourself a round of applause, you guys are have skins of steel to be still around. >> That's what makes an entrepreneur is resilience. >> Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, both of you guys, I owe what I'm doing to both of you. So, back in 2013, I went actually it was AMA prior to >> Basync Market AMM. Yes. >> Which was Kindle >> and we thought ah this Amazon things is just a fad and then uh I got involved with ASM but uh I spent some money and so this this is just crazy. I went over to Malora with Matt and Jason and met my group that I still hang around with Mel like uh to if he's here just a ton of people that are still in my community, my network, my mastermind. And then one week later, I went over to your event which I got no discount on. I didn't even know. Yes. The only thing we said was we looked at each other at one point. This is true. We just went, "What was up?" So, but then um that was in Cancun. So, I had to go to my wife and I said, "Oh, I want to get in this Amazon thing. I'm going to spend 40 grand." I did. >> Yeah. This back in the day when people were paying and they in 2015 2016, we're talking around 2017 is what he's talking about. But there were all the there weren't there's Prosper was just starting. There weren't a lot of conferences and people were paying 10,000. and y'all charge like 15 or 20,000 to go to >> 19,000 >> for 19,000. It was crazy prices that where people were paying because there wasn't all the tools you have now. There wasn't all the data and so it was like the only way to figure out what the heck was going on cuz someone had had hacked a system or gotten some keyword data from uh from somebody in China that got leaked out. But I remember you Mike around 2015 2016 you might not have been doing stuff working at amazing at that point but you were doing some coaching or something with them because I remember you did a webinar where it was like $197 and you hacked like Amazon advertising. It's cuz you used to be like what was it two different types of advertising they got rid of one of them. >> Yeah. Yeah. And they figured out like oh you can reveal if you do this you can reveal all the keywords of your competition and yet y'all did a webinar and crushed it. It was still to this day I think the biggest selling webinar we had at amazing there there's two in a row. One was called launch and rank uh and that's when Facebook came out with their coupons. They had offers where you could actually put in uh individual coupons and Amazon had their individual coupons that most people weren't using cuz it's kind of a pain in the butt to like hand those out and they were promotions actually with coupon codes. And I remember talking to Matt and he was like you know we really need to generate revenue cuz this having one launch a year kind of sucks. You know what I like you have a great big launch and then there's nothing else going on the rest of the time and I said I had an idea like I want to try this it worked for me maybe it worked for everyone else and so we tied together you know kind of like the super URL if remember who remembers the super URL oh yeah that so that that was a fun thing that worked great for a while and then the Facebook offers and then Amazon promotions and we had a webinar and we had I don't know how many people are on like must been at least a thousand or something like that on there uh at $197 a piece >> yeah it was webinar And then we did the whole uh vendor express. That was a whole another market or business you get you with Amazon. Not the vendor program, not Amazon FBA, but vendor express was kind of the same thing where you tell them you have product to sell, they'll send you a perch if they like it, but you get access to Amazon marketing tools, which at that point in time everyone wanted. They had they had sponsor brand video. They gave you the Amazon homepage like tell you what what people actually were searching for when they found you. Uh, and that worked great. Side story of that one is that like after I started teaching in a webinar, we went to to Maui and I was going to also teach some advanced strategies on that. The ex like like a month later. When we got to Maui, Amazon shut that down like the day before. I'm like, what? I had this whole super secret strategy I'm going to share and it did not work anymore. Um, so we had to develop a workaround for it right there live at the event and we did. Um, but it was a little little frightening when you're up on stage ready to achieve something that doesn't work anymore. So, back in the day it was super easy like it was gold rush. Now it's a lot tougher. What's changed and what is so misunderstood right now that people are still going after. Um, and the one thing I think and it's probably true in every single industry is the marketers came in, right? So once they realized opportunity on Amazon, FBA, private label that com combination right there. Once the marketing folks really came in and saw the opportunity that it wasn't just digital products anymore, it was physical products which had more brand value like you could build an asset, build cash flow. That's when I think got really competitive like every everyone started coming in and teaching in the space and also flooding it with sellers in the space. Uh then you had manufacturers who you know were struggling to really get enough sales because they always want to find sellers but they started also getting into the space as well. those that those two combinations um started it but I don't think that was a real waste. I think the real thing that made it harder was what you had mentioned about Jeff Bezos. Our margin is his opportunity. And Amazon, I mean, they pretty much executed a perfect playbook of giving this honeypot to everyone come in. We have this awesome platform. We have customers. We have FBA, which is the, you know, the the cheapest way to have a 3PL to store and sell your products. I mean, back then it was cheap to store your products, get them shipped out. you got more visibility on the search engine. They gave us all these things that made everyone want to do this business and then little by little like, oh, we're going to have these like long-term storage fees. Oh, we're going to increase the the cost per shipment based upon the volume, not just the weight of this thing. And then advertising came in and PPC, I mean, those of us who who started off when PBC came out, it was awesome. It was like 12 cents a click and you were getting sales like no one else could because they weren't even they didn't even was available. But again, as soon as the competition came for that one then PPC now it's most people it's got to be at least like 20 30% of your sale right now. You start adding all those things up and the margins gotten so much lower the competition's so much higher and it's not that Amazon's a bad channel it just can't be your primary channel. I think that's the same thing. We still get a lot of people who come to Amazing and they're like, I want a passive income business so I can make a million by tomorrow and I only want to sell on Amazon. I'm like, I don't know what to tell you. Like that's not that's not the model right now. People still want that. And you hear people still talking about that, but that is not a real business anymore. You do it for cash earlier. Not anymore. Man, things are getting tough out there. Our dudes are getting squeezed. Things are changing. AI is playing a big role in what's going on in the e-commerce world and there's a lot of people that are that are pretty worried. What what should they consider doing? >> Well, I think one of the best things they could probably do is go to an expert that understands the market sentiment right now. First one that comes to mind is is Quiet Brokerage. And here's why. They're going to build you up. They're going to understand your company. And at the end of the day, you're going to know how to maximize your valuation. So, the very first thing you need to do is go and get your free confidential valuation at quietite.com and then, you know, let the games begin. Awesome. What was that website again? >> It's quiet.com. Awesome. I'm going to head over there. >> You guys had amazing switched. I mean, you used to have a lot of big sellers and kind of focus on on that and the new people. Now, you've told me recently that all you really do is new people. >> Yeah. >> So, that you're not really you you let the other people go to MDS or Titan or something else. >> What why are you focusing on the new people? Because this I hear from service providers, you know, the software tools and stuff, it's harder and harder right now to actually get new people and the churn rate. So, why focus on the new people? That's kind of a personal mission of mine. So, we had a big decision to make maybe two years ago where we had, you know, like like Matt is just a genius at everything that he does. It really is like one of the smartest marketing minds that I know. And he's always on the cutting edge of what's working, what's not working. And he's really able to take people from seven figures to 8 figures, eight figures to nine figures. That's kind of his specialty. And we started going down that route because existing sellers, they are more engaged. they're going to if you tell them what to do, they'll do it because they'll take action. Uh they have money to invest in their own business. They'll stick around for longer. It is a much better market to be in if you're in this space right here. Existing sellers because they have cash flow coming in. They see the value of it. New sellers don't like they're limited on capital, they're limited on knowledge, they're limited on time because most job. Uh and we had to make a decision and we're very clear very close to saying let's just go all in on advanced because that is the way to go if we this we are all all been around selling for a long time. But then I realized that like there's there's no good place for a brand new person, you know, there's not a lot of good place for a brand new person where to come in and get authentic training and coaching from because if they're just watching YouTube, they're going to see all kinds of strategies, not know what to do. They're going to think they can have a Lambo. They're going to think it's a passive income. This business is not passive income. This business takes real work. And so I just realized, you know what? It's kind of the space that I've always been. I love teaching, love coaching. That's how I got involved in it. like I just did it organically. >> And you're awesome, Adam. >> Well, I I thank you. I mean, I I appreciate that. I mean, I love doing it. I really do. As as stressed as I get about the feeling I get about someone who's not being successful, like that like when you talked about you about like you want people come back in a year and they want to tell you their success stories. That's how I feel when new people are trying out. And I was I was like, I'm going to throw myself into it. And sometimes it's very stressful because it's a hard business. You know that there's a large percentage aren't going to make it. they're not going to they're not going to follow through. Even if you do follow through, it's a risk, but someone has to be there to help them and give them every single thing they have. And I think that Amazing's kind of been in that spot. And like that there's probably no one here that I'm like selling anything to, but I feel like that's kind of our place. That's like where we really want to be. And does it mean that everyone who comes to our program is going to be successful? Heck no. That's just that's not the way this business works. >> And you say like 40% of the people that buy don't even ever open the open the the training. >> It's it's probably even higher than that. We I mean people would spend five grand in the day to buy our program and we can see the stats on who logs in and over half the people wouldn't even log in and then another large percentage would log in, watch a video and never come back to it. >> It's easy, >> right? I mean, I wish I had that kind of money back then just to throw around and spend five grand and I don't understand it. It's it's disheartening. You know, you kind of feel like is it me? Like is the training that bad? Is that not like it? And I don't think it is. I think like the people the results we've gotten are good. the people actually pile through. I just think people want something easy. >> That's like here. >> Yeah, >> we had some incredible speakers. We've we've told everybody or you told everybody at the beginning, just take down these action points. Just do something with it. At the end of the day, probably the high majority of people that are in this room have incredible great intentions. But intentions doesn't get you anywhere. You just got to do something. And that's right. You you log in one, you once you watch a video. I I do have a question about if you go back in history. So back in the Matt Clark, Jason Katzenbeck era, right? They kind of were opposites, I think. >> What or how did they get this incredible like this surge in marketing? How did everybody get to know ASM? Uh one, it was the first one that went mass market. The first like FBA private label program did uh two unique skill sets. You had Jason who had a large audience already because he was doing a lot of SEO network work. Uh Matt who just had like the marketing mind and he had kind of unlocked what did work on Amazon and what didn't work cuz he was like 100 grand in debt to his AMX bill with doing wholesale that wasn't where you're looking for him. But once he realized what was working on the Amazon side, they met at a mastermind and I think it was one of the ones like uh that Richard Branson still does some involvement in over there. Um, they met at the mastermind, just kind of hooked up and they're like, "I got a list. I know how to email people." Matt's like, "I got a strategy. It's working. I'm making like a hundred grand a month right now on just launching Garcinia Cambosia." And once they took off and they had proof, like once they had proof to show and a list of distribution, like distribution huge, proof, social proof huge, that just exploded. And so the first launch was probably 500 people, something like that. But once you started people seeing people in the group, we had a Facebook group back then actually sharing the results like, "Hey, I just got $10,000. We had badges back then. I made 10K. I made 15K, 25K." And I remember the time where when you hit 25K a month, you were a rock star that and you should still be today. Uh because back then profit margins were high. Most people had never done anything like this. That was huge, huge accomplishment. And when you have people sharing that like organically, that just explodes everywhere. Everyone feels that power. We had so many people, you know, that generated lifechanging businesses where like they still like they built wealth for them and their family generations. That really just helps it all expand around organically cuz you know you don't have to sell it. It's the people who get the results that are doing it for you. >> You know what I forgot about that uh was your what I loved about it simple easy courses bit by bit you know bite-sized pieces but was different was your gamification. And when you said those badges, you know, you and you were put on a pedestal and >> Yeah, that that was pretty cool. >> Everyone wanted their badge. And if they didn't get their badge, like, hey, I submit my, you know, that little screenshot on Amazon that tells you like your seven 30-day sales. As soon as they got that, they were submitting that to us and they wanted their badge. They had it on their profile. That gamification is still a real thing. Like a lot of business, if you put that into your business, it will get people to take action. And I think even today, taking action, even imperfect action, is so much more important than almost anything else. >> Let's talk about that. Gamification is something that that anybody in this room could do, no matter what their brand is. Back 25 years ago or so, I had a newsletter, of course, uh, and we the newsletter was about beautiful women. Uh, so it wasn't porn. It was about what did Vanna White do or what did Hugh Hefner do or what did the Dallas Cowboy jerseys. It was aimed at young men, at men that just like beautiful women. And one of the things we did is we gified and it's kind of like a phallic symbol a little bit, but we actually had a sword on our website. And this sword was really small. And if you answered trivia questions or did certain things on the website or looked at certain pictures, it would grow and it would grow and it would grow. And if it got to all the way to the top, you won a free DVD or a CD or a calendar or something like that. It was a huge freaking hit and it worked like magic to actually get people engaged to get them coming back and and we would sell them stuff. So gamification, you speaking of that from thinking outside the box as a misfit is something that works and then you want to make it applicable though to what you're doing. So if you can customize it or think in terms of like how can I get creative and do this not just a simple little lotteryies thing or click here to see if you're the winner. Um but get get creative with it, it can do really well. I mean, just someone who's bought multiple products that could be like a special award or a badge. Yeah. You know, people I mean, what is it with Porsches? With certain handbags, you can't even buy the most expensive ones until you've purchased a certain amount of them. That's another way of doing it. Hermes bags to buy a $30,000 Hermes bags, you got to be invited to buy it. Same thing. And Hermes does no marketing. They they have a zero marketing budget for the whole company. It's all because of that that created demand. And it's it's crazy what they do. They do billions of dollars off of that. >> What is the Rolex Mariner watch? You can't buy that new. You got to buy used one or buying misfits podcast. >> Marketing misfit. >> Can't buy that new. >> Well, speaking of that, if you haven't signed this QR code and actually signed up, make sure you do that cuz here at the end, we're going to award somebody. We're going to spin a wheel. Kelsey's going to go over uh to the AV and hook up his computer and spin a wheel. He's going to download all everybody that signed up since uh this event started. and uh we'll you'll get to choose the winner will get to choose one of those uh awards there on the bottom. So Mike, so what are you seeing with the new people? What what's the challenges for people like in this room? There's a few people that some of you are very experienced in here and then there's some people that are are brand new just getting into this. What what does it take to win in this game? Uh there's two challenges and one really surprised me and that is as as much as like I say that we're marketing to new people over the past couple months. We've got a resurgence of old school ASM members. People that bought 5 10 years ago and they never got off their butt. Like they went through the training, they maybe found a product but they couldn't really make that decision. Uh, and so they finally decided after enough of like our videos like kind of beating over the head that they really want to give this a shot. Like they and the one thing that I see them and the new people, they need um help making the right decisions. Like they want to know that they are making the right decisions and that they're not alone in making the decision. And I think it's true for the new people and the existing people. Is that because their wife or husband or somebody's telling them don't spend this 10 grand on that that thing? Is it's >> Yeah. No one understands this business. To this date, I have relatives and family that still think I sell on eBay. I'm sure the people around here like the same question. No one gets what we do. You know, we're not selling on eBay. We're not talking, you know, resold products. Um, we're building brands, but most people don't understand. And that's okay. It's totally fine. But since they don't understand it, they also don't have faith in it, you know, and and I've had a hard time telling lots of people what it is that I do in my personal life. And so, imagine a new person that they see people being successful. to hear about people at these events that are now, you know, seven, eight figure sellers and they want to do that, but they're talking to family members or cousins or friends and like, "Hey, I'm thinking about starting a brand." People are naturally going to like shoot that down. And I think they just need someone to tell them, "Yes, you can do this. It is possible." And it is possible. It's totally possible. Today, I think like what Jason said yesterday, we're at this inflection point where it's actually a bigger opportunity than what we had back in 2012, 2013. It may not feel like it yet. Just it doesn't feel like it yet because we're all kind of like at the beginning of it, but as soon as it takes off, as soon as you start seeing something scale on its own because of AI, you will recognize that what he's talking about. >> And we're at that point. And I think that new people should get in. I think existing people need to go all in and really go deep on this. Like this is one of those things you're not going to see the results in a day or two. You're going to see the results 30, 60, 90 days. And the more you do that, the more you kind of stack things up into this flywheel, AI is going to take that and like power it up for everyone. New existing seven figure eight for your sellers. It's going to create wealth like we saw back then in the days, but it's going to be even bigger than that. History repeats itself, right? So you got the early adopters, then you got the followers, and then you got the people that come in at the very end and they get nothing. they get the, as you say, Ubie stacks, you know, which is nuts because it's there. It's laid out for us. The training is there. It's pretty much free. You know, you can go to places like Skill Leap or Fruit, um, Futureedia, learn everything you need to know to really get a grasp on AI 100%. You know, it's and training isn't even isn't even the hard part. As much as we like put our effort into creating it, that's not the hard part. Hard part is just following through. You know, I don't think there's there's no magic to find the right product. The fact that we're no longer pushing straight towards Amazon makes finding a product easier because if you push straight towards Amazon, you have a whole list of things that you need to check off your list. The cost, the advertising, the competition, the reviews, the velocity, there's it's a whole formula. But if you focus on your own market, like forget about Amazon, it it is an overflow channel. If you focus on putting the right product and you control the channel where you get people like let's say meta, you control where you're sending to your own landing page, there's no no competition there. You control the whole experience, you control the customer lifetime value because you offer the upsells that you can't do on Amazon. You're no longer playing in Amazon space. And so any product any product to work right now, that's why it's it's it's easier right now, but it almost makes it harder because now that the world is your oyster to choose from and me saying that any product can work doesn't really help. You just got to figure out what are you passionate about? How do you want to help people? How do you solve people's problems? And then find a product that does that. You can make it work. >> So you're saying be on your channel. >> Yeah, 100%. Yeah, absolutely. Be everywhere, anywhere, all the time. It doesn't mean you're going to be successful everywhere. But then how do you do that? How do I do that? I mean, you that's easy to say be on your channel. You need to be on Amazon and Shopify and Tik Tok shop and wherever else. But those are different skill sets. So how do you actually do that? Because you can't just take your Amazon listing and throw it on Shopify. A lot of people do, but it doesn't work that way. It you're not going to have the chance of success go way down. So, what how do you how do you wear all these hats or how's someone that's new or even an existing business manage that? Well, I mean, for me, like I still run my own business and I and I have to like fit that in with everything else in my life with amazing. I'm doing creating tools right now. I have a family that sometimes wants to spend time with me when I'm not wearing this. And so, I have to figure out how to make that all work, too. And I think that that's where AI can come in as well. You don't toss your life and schedule over to AI, but you let it help you structure your life. Um, I, you know, I talk to it all the time so it knows what my priorities are, personal, business, uh, you know, like even my own like self-improvement. I talk to it so it knows me and it kind of helps me. It helps me guide where I should focus that day. Uh, I think that's one thing like use AI to help you focus and then if you want like a game plan for me the game plan is find your people, find their problem, find a product that solves their problem that you're passionate about and then find someone to make that product for you. You do those you got your product and then start off selling on your own website. I mean that's the easiest way to go. And while you're doing that have your product on Amazon and it and they'll sound very oversimplified. AI can help you do each one of those better than ever could. You don't just say create me a landing page. You say, "Follow the 11st step killer formula for the best landing page ever." And then it'll create it for you. And then you do the same thing on Amazon. Have a well optimized title, bullet points, um, images. Like, it can walk you through all those steps. Even without our training, it can walk you through the steps if you prompt it the right way. And then you send them to Shopify. The overflow goes to Amazon. And then once you have both those going, Amazon sales there are very profitable because you're not blowing up money on search terms that are very competitive. Now it's just brand search. Shopify, you control the game over there. If you can sell something for like a $50 average order value, the numbers just work out. Just the way it works out. You can get 50 bucks average order value, it works out over there. And then you overflow, it's just pure cash on top of that. For me, I'd drop those two. And then then I'd really go to the checkbox side. And again, that's me telling you that because I haven't solved it yet. So maybe that's not the third step. Maybe it's step two for you. Um, but then you have those three. And then Walmart, I checked it off the list because I'm still there. I don't have products in their in their version of FBA anymore because it was a pain in the butt. I sold like 3% of what I do everywhere else. But now that they have embraced chat GBT, I'm going back there. That's the first note I made here. I'm going back and loading up products over there because they are playing the game with AI where Amazon is I don't know what Amazon is doing. They're flip they're in their own little, you know, silo for it. But Walmart's going to make a push and so that'll be the a good fourth channel that is very easy to do. They tell you how to optimize your listing on Walmart. Um, you just got to follow their instructions. >> Hey, Norm, you'll love this man. I talked to a seller the other day doing 50K a month, but when I asked them what their actual profit was, they just kind of stared at me. >> Are you serious? That's kind of like driving blindfolded. >> Exactly, man. I told them you got to check out Sellerboard. This cool profit tool that's built just for Amazon sellers. It tracks everything like fees, PPC, refunds, promos, even changing cogs during using FIFO. >> Aha. But does it do FBM shipping costs too? >> Sure does. That way you can keep your quarter 4 kaos totally under control and know your numbers because not only does it do that, but automates your PPC bids. It forecasts inventory. It sends review requests and even helps you get reimbursements from Amazon. Now, that's like having a CFO in your back pocket. You know what? It's just $15 a month, but you got to go to sellerboard.commisfits. sellerboard.com/misfits. And if you do that, they'll even throw in a free two-month trial. >> So, you want me to say go to sellerboard.commisfits and get your number straight before your accountant loses it? >> Exactly. >> All right. So, two things. One is just a comment. The other one is going to take us down a different rabbit hole, but the comment is anybody who's sitting out here who's trying to do this on their own. A lot of you might be involved with Kevin's BDSC, which is great. You have to get involved. It this is a must. Entrepreneurship is very lonely. If you're trying to do it yourself, you are 99.9% going to fail. You have to join some form of a community and then that way I was because when you were talking I know I could reach out to you. I've reached out to you before and said how the hell did you do that within minutes you're always responding and it's great. Same thing with Kevin. Same thing with a lot of little shapers who are well no they don't >> especially if it's on teamwork >> within days Kevin refs what's it and teamwork that's a whole lot of short but he's critical. You're right about that. Yeah, it you have to do it. And it sounds, you know, maybe it's corny, but you have to do it. And and it's at least you can push your ideas off of people. Now, the other thing I want to do, uh, and this is just a a different topic altogether and, uh, we talked a little bit about it back there is you have to sometimes get outside your comfort zone. Like for me doing this years ago, there was no way in h I turned down my uh my sister-in-law to do her master ceremonies. I couldn't do this. But you get outside your comfort zone, you learn a new skill. And sometimes you have to job that out. But if you can do it, if you can do that, you know, video or if you can do whatever it is, uh like I you got me on stage for the first time. >> Yeah. You're I mean those you may not know that but Norm was speaking at one of our one of our early events and the first I didn't realize it was first time ever on stage right >> yeah silicon the silicon event that was a big event too I think we had a couple thousand people there first >> and what what did you do on your way there >> well other than having an ulcer in sitting in the audience going the day before going what the am I doing here I don't belong here they this is crazy I'm beh I'm behind the camera. Never in front of the camera. I'm shaking like this. Next day I like that night I broke a tooth. So I I get out on stage and I'm lisping broken this tooth. But uh yeah, that started. And then um Manny Coach called up because of that and he said, "Hey, you want to be a co-host on AM podcast?" And I went on there twice uh twice a month and that was me. That was my getting out of my comfort zone. But it's so important. Maybe you can talk about that as well. >> Oh god. I mean, look at me. I'm clearly able now to get out of my comfort zone, right? Like I wouldn't be able to do this 10, 15 years ago. And I think part of it, it's not cuz I just like I think life is meant to be enjoyed. You know what I mean? Like I don't want to spend my life just being serious and business and corporate all the time. I've done that. I just want to have fun, meet people, have a good time. And in doing that, you have to get out of your comfort zone. Um, we have a a lot of the speakers here, they got their first chance also with one of our events or a podcast like that and they didn't realize how much they could do it. We saw it. We saw it in you. I mean, Kevin saw it in you. Everyone sees it in you like everyone here sees it in you. But people don't see it in themselves and that's natural. And I'm sure that 90% of the people in this room don't see something in themselves that we see right now. >> So you didn't see anything in me because I solar equation vision to see something in you. But >> I've seen the vision. No, I mean you give me numb, >> but everyone, you know, here's here's the biggest thing that everyone there was an eye openener for me. My son who's like, you know, 25 years old right now, he's kind of like struggled going into big groups of people as well. And so he came on a trip with me to kind of see what it was like. And then for him, he was a different person. Once he got around this big group of people, he opened up. And what I told him, the secret I told him is true for everyone here. Whenever you walk into a room like this or a private mastermind like with in the Gatsby mansion with 50 100 people, you every single person in the room, and I mean every single person feels out of place. Every person feels like when you walk in that everyone's already involved in a conversation. They're already kind of paired up in twos or threes. They're talking about things that they want to talk about. They don't know who you are and that they have every single thing figured out. And I guarantee you that is not the case. every person there feels a lot of what you do everywhere you go. And that for me that was an eye openener. Like when I go to events now I'm like you know what they may look like they got things figured out. I may look like I don't care what I you know how I present myself on day but I do. I care what I you know I care about that. Everyone has the same insecurities. Every single person does. And once you realize that it's a lot easier get comfort zone. Even Tik Tockers even people who do these millions billions of views they still have insecurities about doing it. You know what? They still have nine out of 10 duties that don't make it. You don't see those because they don't make it. But everyone out there, you know, Mark Maguire, you know, missed swinging, hitting home runs, you know, twothirds of the time, even hitting the ball. Like all these stars, they they miss more times than they make it. But we don't see that. We think everyone's got it figured out. They don't. Everyone's messed up a little bit. Everyone. Yeah. And that's how I got into this space is I was just minding my business as a seller back in 2015 launching five brands and Manny Coats Helium 10 had a Facebook group called FBA how rollers I think it was called. >> Yeah. >> And there he had built it. He was building that to u for his podcast at the time which later became Helium 10. And that I there were some people posting in there some misinformation and it was getting just parited. So someone was posting like never use a landing page that hurts your conversion rate on Amazon. don't ever send the traffic because it's going to hurt your conversion rate. I was like, you guys are full of crap. You have no idea what you're talking about. So, I posted something to that effect in there. And Manny's like, who's this guy? So, so he called me up or and said, hey, come on the podcast. I'm like, no, I'm not going to come on the podcast. Uh, that's uh I'm just doing my investment. No, dude, just come on the podcast. So, I had a like a $10 headset microphone. And I was sitting in my garage with the worst audio in the it sound like I'm in a tin can and we did the podcast and it was like 2016 and it just resonated. It just cuz I just said it as it is. I was authentic and just said it as it is and saying stuff that nobody else would say. Uh and it just went crazy and then from that everybody started saying, "Hey, you need to come on my podcast and my podcast." And I didn't intend to get into this side of the business and just evolved that way. and then getting on stage and you know now I'm extremely comfortable on the stage but it it was tough at first getting outside >> who who here intended to do what they're doing right now. >> Yeah. Exactly. You know none of us and even people selling probably brands online. You know I've always intended ever since I saw Norm's picture always intended to be partners with Zoom. >> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So I got a question for anybody who's listening. Anybody in EO anybody? Anybody? Perfect. I knew you'd be that. Explain what that is to me. >> Leo is entrepreneur organization. It used to be called Young Entrepreneurs Organization. If you're doing over a million and a half, I highly, highly, highly recommend that you check out this organization. First of all, um it will get you out of your shell. There's meetings once a month. And that that's what helped me because I would never go up to anybody and talk to them. Now I I know how to do it. And then the second part is you get a forum and I was actually one of the original forum groups of eil and this is a group of non-competitive people that will this is uh this is part of my form group right here. So non-competitive people that will help you out. So you can go there, you can say whatever you want to say and you can say it with confidence and you don't have to worry about, you know, somebody trying to knock off what you're doing. Highly recommend Young Entrepreneur or Entrepreneurial Organization. If you don't know what it is, you want more information, just let me know. Very cool. You know, one thing I've noticed that's changed also since we got going, you mentioned that they're they they want to help you. They're not judging. They're they'll probably help you off. Um I think there's been a shift like people are much more open to sharing the products they have now like maybe not completely but back in our day in the ASM1 days no it's it was like fight club you don't talk about your product cuz no one you don't want to share that cuz you think you have like your idea of selling leather conditioner is going to change the whole world if someone else finds that out you and people didn't talk about it and I've seen it over the past couple years and maybe it's cuz going omni channel is part of that right there because you're not so beholden to one channel with ranking and reviews Um, but I I have seen so many people get better results when they're open to sharing the more like at Market Masters down in Austin. Highly recommend that event for anyone looking to really take their business to the next level. Uh, but they get out there and they share for two to three hours every little detail about their business. And if they were there like, I want your help with my business, but I don't want you to know where my product is. You couldn't do anything. And the same is true in rooms like this. Share where your product is. It's like you don't get to tell them the exact landing page with the ASN. If you don't want to, you can. I would show it to them. Um, but the more you share, the more people trust you, the more people want to help you, the better off that you will get better responses and advice because they know more about it. And I think it's been a really good trend industry. People are no longer secretive as as it used to be. And I don't I still to this day don't even know why we were that way. >> Yeah. That creators made sellers event never happened 5 years ago. Look, everybody was like, I'm not putting my stuff on a table. There's no way I'm going to go in another room with other people that are going to steal my ideas. There's there's no way. >> Well, that's why I like you a little bit. What? But we were in Hawaii. Well, first of all, I kind of liked you cuz we had cigars. But do you remember we both sold the same product? Bully six. >> Yeah. Bully six. And we're sharing information and it's like nobody in this industry would ever share what they're doing. and I'm were talking about my supplier and my marketing, you know, and then at the end of the day, if it was about traffic, >> I put you out of business shortly after that, right? >> Yeah, that son of a [ __ ] So, no, but whoever got the traffic won. So, it was up to the consumer, is they like his listing or my listing? >> Well, that's that's one thing a lot of people get obsessed with their competition. >> Yeah. >> And I don't I want to know what they're doing, but I don't get obsessed with them. I don't worry about what they're doing. I'm just I'm going to beat them uh and in marketing no matter what. Uh, that's what my focus is. Okay, I I'll do I I'll do I'm to do my I'm to do me and if it's not good enough, I'll do you. >> You just I think the reason I still know reason why we're that way back then, but if you just focus on yourself, it's it's kind of like self-improvement. Don't focus on all the people around you. Don't focus on what people think about you. Focus on yourself, then things just work out that way. Same thing with business. Focus on your brand, your product. What can you do to make it better? Pay attention. Don't obsess. And there's more than one top seller on Amazon. They don't have a they have a top 100 in every single product. They don't have a top one. And there's a reason for that. Like there's lots of space even on Amazon to still make a lot of money. Sure. Do you want to be on the first page of search results? Absolutely. But it's a page of results. It's not just one result. They don't have one page per product. And that's why back in the day, the same thing. John Gil, one of our sellers back then, he and I both sold lanterns. And so we shared we shared suppliers like, "Hey, my supplier's low, you know, he can't give me what I need. Can I share yours?" I'm like, "Sure, we did it. It did. We didn't care a single bit back then." And things like that kind of helped. We built a good relationship. We shared a lot of strategies. It It's more important to get people working with you and helping you than it is to like keep yourself in a silo. You know what was a big difference was back in the day, like I'm a fossil, you're semifossil. Um, we used to go to these trade shows and at the trade shows you'd always go out while there were your idiot comp competitors that you'd never invite out, but you'd have a whole group of competitors and they were your friends. These were friendly competitors. It was the norm to go out, break bread with these guys, and who knows, maybe later on you'd merge or you'd have some form of partnership and there was no fear. >> You just wouldn't talk to the idiots. Yes. No. And I'm talking about the guys that would try to just tap you for information and then go and try to duplicate what you're doing. But there were so many and I'd say the high percentage were friendly competitors. And when Amazon came about, those trade shows kind of dissolved. They're still there, but the Amazon sellers never went out to them. I think most people are good. I really do. You know, I think 90% of the people out there, maybe they're good. You know, there's a few bad actors. You do need to probably keep regard a little bit, but in general, you want to live your life that way. always worrying about the people that are just out to like suck something from you. No, just ignore those people. Let them do what they want to do. Most people are good. More you get to know people, they'll help you out. They empower you. Like this is a community. That's why we're all here right now. I mean, I can't imagine doing this by myself. I would go crazy. Sometimes I think like it'd be nice just to work in my basement by myself and not have other responsibilities. But every one of us would go crazy. And I guarantee people would not have a successful business doing this by yourself. Well, you don't release the stress by going into to the BDSS WhatsApp and just telling dad jokes. >> That's what I do. That's my therapy. The the WhatsApp group is my therapy right now. And every once in a while, someone laughs every once in a while. Not not that often. Not a lot. >> Is that Is that sense of humor ever caught upset somebody that doesn't understand you? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, it it does. It happens. And so I do try to temper it. Believe it or not, every joke that I make has already been threatened three times and pulled back until I get the not going to say that. Oh, that's what all those deletes delete right there. I see. >> So, from a marketing perspective, what is something that's you admire in marketing? Is there a brand or a company or a process? It doesn't have to be an Amazon. It could be an Amazon, but something that like, man, that was some brilliant out of the box thinking in marketing. Um, I would say that like like dude wipes. I know we already talked about one time, but that kind of opened my eyes to being able to take a product that is a commodity. You could not get more of a commodity. So, explain what dwy wipes are for something. >> Yes. So, wipes, uh, if you haven't heard about them, they're a brand of baby wipes. They're just baby wipes. There's really nothing different. They may market it as being more maybe nature friendly cuz they're biodegradable, whatever, but they're baby wipes. And baby wipes are a commodity that back in the day you could buy for $5.99 for a big pack of them at Walmart, Sam's, Costco, wherever. And these guys went on Shark Tank and decided that we're going to create baby wipes, but for dudes. And so, they created a brand called Dude Wipes. to wipe your your down there parts, right? >> This is Yeah. your your derriè. >> Um so like for for men who want to be clean and fresh uh but manly at the same time. I don't know if they go together, but let's say they do. So they decided to create these these products went on Shark Tank and they loved them, right? Yeah. And they realized that this product was no different than anything else, but they crushed it. Became, you know, hundred million dollar company very quickly. Now over a billion. Um, that's one company that because they just took the most common product out there and repositioned and completely repositioned it in which I think we all think our products are boring. I think we well we either think our products the best thing on earth or we think they're too boring to sell omni channel and neither is true. You know, it's not the best product on earth. Hardly any are. And any product can be repositioned. And that's like a good book is called positioning. I think um I actually read that one. Uh it it it's really good about how to position your product and to stand out. Like focus one thing, one person, one avatar and sell to that person. Doesn't mean you don't still address the masses, but really think about that one avatar. And that's what the dude the dude wives guys did. They talking about guys who wanted to be a little cleaner after doing their business and they sold to them. And that's I mean Tylenol is the same way. If you go into the drugstore and you get Tylenol, extra strains, Tylenol, migraine. If you look at the back, it's the same ingredients. >> Yeah. Uh and the same thing happens with when we were selling uh um Germ Shark with selling the you know the wipes. We we came out with uh basically Germ Shark uh for the gym to wipe down you know to and it's the same product and you just positioned it differently and just changed it changed it up. So that's uh that's a way to actually expand your reach and actually get more listings on Amazon too. >> Almost like almost every big brand does that you know look at Clorox, look at cereal, look at orange juice. Do they really have extra calcium in that one brand of orange juice? No, it's it's orange juice. It's got calcium already, but they have one bottle that is like with calcium like but they all have calcium. They do all that calcium. Um but they market it that way that you think more SKs, more coverage, more ways to launch your products. Easy easy unlock. Hey, Kevin King and Norm Ferrar here. If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits, thanks for listening this far. Continue listening. We got some more valuable stuff coming up. Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify. Make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of The Marketing Misfits. Have you subscribed yet, Norm? >> Well, this is an old guy alert. Should I subscribe to my own podcast? >> Yeah, but what if you forget to show up one time? It's just me on here. You're not going to know what I say. >> I'll I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair, too. We'll just You can go back and forth with one another. Yikes. But that being said, don't forget to subscribe, share it. Oh, and if you really like this content, somewhere up there there's a banner. Click on it and you'll go to another episode of the Marketing Misfits. >> Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm. Well, speaking of an unlock, we've got someone that's sponsoring this podcast, Linkrans. Um, I don't know. I think someone's out. If you want to come up and just introduce yourself real quick. They're one of the sponsors of the event. They actually sponsored this. So, let's give them a hand. They came all the way from China. >> So, they're going to tell you a little bit about themselves. >> Hi. Hi. Hi, guys. I'm Kathy. I'm the co-founder of Link Trans. I'm sitting there. I'm standing there. And uh we we we help sellers uh on the average help sellers to save uh s up to 30%age free charges. And uh today I'm bring some gifts there. Uh and anyone uh who catch the the panda uh come to our booth. We can give you $20. I'm give a car. Okay. Okay. Okay. >> Okay. Thank you guys. Thank you guys. Meeting meeting with you in the booth. Perfect. >> Oh, we'll take it. Thank you. >> Great. >> All right. Cool. Well, Mike, if people wanted to reach out to you, uh, how do they how do they do that? Mikemazing.com. That's my legit email. Mike, a hard one. Yeah, it's pretty hard to do. And no one's always got a question for our guests, too. for you. Ah, so at the this is kind of weird behind Zoom or whatever. So we always ask our guests at the end of every podcast if they know a misfit. >> If I know a misfit, >> a misfit. Somebody who thinks outside of the box to succeed. >> Well, he's thinking this is one of the ways that we get guests that we don't know. So you always wonder, how do you get guests on podcast? Sometimes it's people you know or you meet at a convention, but the best way is a referral from somebody else. It's the same thing in your business on on customers. The best is always a referral from somebody else. So when a guest will say somebody will actually follow up and get their contact and reach out to them and actually usually get them on. >> I would get I would get because he used to be so involved in the space and because he left it family reason. Jason Cat's back. Oh my god. Awesome guy. >> Built his own brand again. fellow Canadian one. You're >> the only Canadian that doesn't know how to skate. >> Exactly. Yeah. But no, I think it'd be perfect. He thinks outside the box. Went He went back old school. He quit teaching and built Roots to Table, which is like a a North American sourced manufacturer uh cheeseboard plate. >> He does this himself. Yeah, they said himself. >> You see videos of him like he's cutting stuff up and losing limbs and Yeah, he's doing great. >> Oh, that would be great. So, well, Norm, uh, so how do they follow the Misfits podcast or what do they do if they want to see more of the episodes that we >> All right, so you always give me these trick questions. So, if you want to see more of the Misfits, you can always go to our website, marketingmisfits.co.com.co. And if you want to see the long form uh videos, check us out on YouTube at marketingmisfits podcast. The nuggets, this is what a lot of people like. We extract the nuggets 3 minutes and under and that's marketing Miss Vitz lips. We're also recently on Tik Tok and we got a newsletter. That's right. So, new episodes are every Tuesday. So, I want to say thanks to everybody that's here and listening and hopefully you'll subscribe and we'll see you the next time. >> I want to thank you guys, too. You guys got me into this. I don't know if I should thank you or >> Sure. You want to thank us? We take donations. >> All right. Okay. All right. Appreciate everybody.