I Asked a $450M VC Where to Invest in 2026

I Asked a $450M VC Where to Invest in 2026 Speaker 1: I could only lose 3 million bucks. I could gain 300 million bucks. Not much, man. Doing well. Speaker 2: Dude, always good having you on. You are, as always, I give you this title, the most interesting man in tech. You're a great investor. You're a tech investor. How big is the fund or how much total have you invested now at this point? Speaker 1: About $450 million total. Speaker 2: Okay, $450 million. So like, you know, I've learned a lot from poker, right? And in poker, you learn all these lessons that actually cross-apply totally outside the domain of poker. What would you say are the lessons from investing that apply to life? Speaker 1: I think, you know, one, Upside can be greater than downside. So if I invest in a company, let's say I put $3 million into a company, there is a possibility of it being $300 million. But the downside is capped at $3 million. I could only lose $3 million. I could gain $300 million. Speaker 2: Yeah, because if you don't work in investing or anywhere where you have that sort of asymmetric risk versus return, Let's just say you have an hourly wage job, right? Your mind gets trained into this linear. I put one in, I get one out, right? I can't put one in and get 50 hours of pay out of this next hour. That doesn't really ever happen in a normal job. But if your job is investing, you're like, of course, that happens all the time. I lose one times my money, but sometimes I gain 100 or 1,000 times my money back. And that kind of breaks the brain and you sort of like start to see, you know, other opportunities. Similarly, they have that, as they say, the asymmetry of risk return. All right, so that's one. There's something around this portfolio theory, like, you know, out of the $450 million you deploy, right? Like, what does winning look like? You probably need to return some multiple of that $450 million. So what does winning look like for you? You put in $450, what do you need to get out for this to be a success? Speaker 1: A couple billion dollars. Speaker 2: A couple billion dollars. Let's say $2 billion. Let's just use a rough math. Speaker 1: Let's say it's $500 billion, to make math easy. Speaker 2: Right, so $500 million for exit, that would be great over some 10-year period. Of that two billion, how many companies would you go into? And of those, how many companies would be responsible for returning all of that money? It's only gonna be a few, right? Give me the math there. Speaker 1: Yeah, so almost all of the returns are gonna come from like 10 companies out of hundreds that we will have invested in. Correct. Speaker 2: And so there's something like that in life too, right? Whether it's like people you meet or dating or like there's some portfolio theory, some power law where The few will drive like all of the joy, the value, the relationships, the opportunities, whatever. And then you just do the rest because you need a portfolio in order to find the few that are like the big outliers. Speaker 1: It's true. And it's also in a related note, there's like, if you increase the surface area of companies you meet, you have the better odds of finding that one, like where you really know it's going to work. And so in life, I think increasing surface area is good, like saying yes to stuff. Speaker 2: Right. There's a great blog post this guy wrote called Building Your Own Yacht. Have you ever read this blog post? It's like very obscure. I got this from some random Twitter account. The Real Estate G6, sorry. You know, like normally I'd be like pretty low expectations, but this, this over delivered. And so it basically argues the following. It says most people in their life, they don't do anything that compounds, right? Like most people are non-compounders in general. Okay. So And then we kind of know that, okay, money has this compounding thing, right? You can compound some interest or rate of return, 10% a year in the S&P 500, and over every 10 years, that's gonna, or every seven years, that's gonna double, great. So you sort of see compounding financially, but everything compounds, including relationships, skills, knowledge, everything else. And he has this story about building your own yacht. So let me read this out for you. Okay, so he goes, if you aren't familiar, Aristotle Onassis, by the way, this might be a totally fictitious person for all I know, but it doesn't matter. The story works either way. He was one of the wealthiest businessmen of the 20th century. He started off as a tobacco trader and he ends up, you know, being this big shipping magnate, right? So he makes his bones in the shipping industry. He's dating famous actresses. Okay, so he lives this life, but he has this one sort of hack for relationship building. He called it building your own yacht. So he basically talks about how This guy basically, one of his investments was this yacht, which seems just like a splurge purchase, like a discretionary purchase, but he argues like... Think about the power of having a yacht. And he goes, the way that humans are wired is like we are very suspicious of cold introductions, strangers on the street, people emailing you that you don't know. But like a warm introduction or a warm relationship is so much. You've already bypassed like 10 hurdles that come from taking somebody from cold to warm. And so he argues he's like, think about it this way. If you think about relationships, you would want to have, if you meet somebody, you want to do business with them or you just want to socially connect with them, you would want social proof. Like, is this person cool? Are they legit? Are they friends with people that I already am friends with or respect? And basically it's like, from the moment you step foot on a yacht, Social proof is done. Credibility is done. And he's like, on top of that, you enter their frame like you are literally on their turf. And from the end, he's like, there's also the law of reciprocity, which is like if I invite you or give you something, there's a part of you psychologically that will want to reciprocate and return in some way. And often the law of reciprocity, the way it works is like it's not one for one. So like if I, you know, just do you a quick favor, bring you a drink. And then I ask you for a much bigger ask than the drink, you're more likely to say yes to it. And so he talks about how, and he's like, yeah, okay, that works with the yacht. But he's like, in life, there's actually all these little yachts that you can create that don't cost the same amount as a yacht. So you host a dinner, right? You create an event. You send out free materials, a newsletter, content. These are all little yachts. You can create all this inbound luck and relationships and things that can compound because you create this asset that you get to use from there on out. So I thought that was a very interesting point. I'm curious what that brings up for you. Speaker 1: Totally. And I think like for you guys, the podcast is partially that. Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Speaker 1: Thanks to this conversation, I think I'm going to start doing more dinner parties. Because I think it's just like such an easy way you bring people together. Also, oftentimes I meet somebody and I'm like, I want to hang out with them again, but there's no real... Speaker 2: There's no excuse. Speaker 1: There's no excuse. But if you just invite them over, it's better. And I think actually, I think the best thing to do is invite them over to your house because then there's some feeling that like, it's a much stronger feeling than if you invite them to a restaurant. Speaker 2: Well, even as an investor, Sokka did this, right? Chris Sokka did this with his, he moved out of San Francisco where in San Francisco, you don't have a yacht. You know, you're just meeting at coffee shops and little, you know, little places like this. You have an office, but everybody has an office. There's nothing special about it. He moves to Tahoe in Truckee, actually, and he basically has like a cabin on the mountains with a hot tub and you can ski and his dog is there and his kids are there and he's got this guest house. And then he invited, you know, Travis from Uber over and they hung out for two or three days and invites Kevin Systrom. Hey, dude, come just work out of my place in Tahoe for the week. And then when they're on his turf in his yacht, obviously like the connection and the depth of the relationship built way faster. And he basically attributed that move to, you know, some of the best investments of his career is like having that little yacht. Speaker 1: It's great. Makes makes complete sense. Speaker 2: I've talked before about the way that I know how to make money, about how to build a money-making skill, about how to leverage your time and energy, and the team at Hubspot actually went through the video where I explained all that and turned it into a free, downloadable cheat sheet on my four rules of how to make money. Now, this is not, you know, give or take advice. It's just core principles, foundational principles about building wealth, things that I wish I knew when I was, you know, just getting started. And so if you want to download it, it's in the description below. It's totally free. You can go get it. Thanks to the folks at Hubspot for doing the research, making this document and making it available to all you guys. All right. Back to this episode. One person I know, they knew that Nick Gray is amazing at these two-hour cocktail parties. And so they just were like, hey, Nick, can I commission you to do the dinner party part for me? And he's like, great, I love doing this. And so they worked out a deal where he would do it for them. Or I know somebody else that did this with, if there's a conference in town, they would kind of free Airbnb. Actually, Travis from Uber used to do this. In his old blog post, he talked about what he called the jam pad, which was his house in San Francisco. He's like, hey, if you're in town for this, you could stay at the jam pad. And he's like, you know, what does it cost me to have some people on the couch? Nothing. A little inconvenience. I might have to put up some weirdness. But ultimately, like, I'm creating this magnet, this little bitty yacht where I'm just going to have this flow of interesting people coming through that might, who knows? Who knows what's going to happen? But the asymmetric upside was there for him. Speaker 1: I've got a friend, Satya, who does this poker game every week. And he'll invite anybody, all sorts of interesting people from like CEOs of like prominent companies to, I just went to this deli, had a sandwich, I loved it, was talking to the owner. And he knows Satya and he was like, yeah, he came in here, he loved the sandwich. And then he invited me to play poker. And I was like, that's so interesting. And this guy went to go play poker with these CEOs. You know, all sorts of interesting stuff has happened thanks to that. So I think that's his little yacht. Speaker 2: It's interesting. You know, these are all so obvious to host a dinner party or whatever. But if you kind of look, I know, at least for me, if I look at my life, I'm like, I'm. I'm very underweighted there. It's like, you know, I'm pretty overweighted on, I don't know, social media or, you know, other things that I spend a lot of time on. And these other things that I think if I, if I am honest with myself, like would clearly add value and I just don't make the time for them. Like, and then sometimes you need a reminder or in this case, like just the word of like, oh yeah, I'm just building a yacht here. Suddenly it elevates the importance of the thing I'm doing from like, I'm just posting some people over, we're going to have a dinner to like, no, no, this is part of my, this is part of my yacht. I'm like this Greek dude, you know, that's me right now. And so sometimes you just need to delude yourself. Speaker 1: Totally. Another one is, so, you know, we're both active on Twitter. There are folks that are like mutuals, folks that you like their stuff, they like your stuff. Recently, I would say like once a month, I meet somebody for the first time because there's somebody that is a mutual on Twitter, like we like each other, and they reach out to me and say, hey, let's grab lunch. And it's usually people in from out of town, like people who are in town, you just expect that you're going to see them. But if somebody's in from out of town, they're coming to San Francisco, they go on a mission to meet all their Twitter mutuals. And I think that's great. People should do that. When you're traveling, especially to San Francisco, if you have a lot of mutuals here, just reach out to them. Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, that's so true. It's like tourism, right? I've never been to Alcatraz. I've lived here for 15 years. But if I came to visit, I would have seen it that weekend. Speaker 1: Absolutely. Speaker 2: I was going to ask you about AI because I feel like you're pretty plugged in and you're a thoughtful dude. So I think you have opinions on kind of like where the world is going. So I want you to paint the picture. Like Game of Thrones style, you know, the intro of Game of Thrones, they have the big map. It's like you have this map first. So like the high level map for AI is like, well, here's what it appears to me. I'm curious your point of view. There's this race and I don't fully understand the idea of a race because it seems like whatever one company does, the other companies have six months later. So I'm not sure like if you got to the finish line, then what? What is the finish line and how do you win this supposed race? I'm not sure about that. But obviously so much money is being invested that somebody believes that there's like a victory condition of this race. So I'm curious about that part of it first, like the concept of an AI race. What do people actually mean and how is that going to play out? Speaker 1: So many things in life have been winner take all in tech, especially. So like there's one major search engine and there's one, you know, Facebook on social media. Of course, there are others. There's Twitter out there. But a lot of these businesses have scaling returns or network effects. And the same is true in AI probably, like one company is going to have all of the context they need to be your best assistant. And so I feel weird saying this because I use, I right now use Claude, Gemini, and ChatGPT every day. And certain queries, I'm doing the same query on each. But in the long run, that's not really sustainable. And also, not everybody's like me. Most people are probably just going to have one. And the context embedded into it, which is like all of your past conversations, or if it's Gemini, they have all your email, or if it ends up being meta somehow, they have all that context. That's going to be really valuable. Speaker 2: So the first idea is that everybody in the world is going to want, is going to have some ultra smart helpful assistant, which is some blend of like Google that just answers your questions for you, but then also like can make things for you, write things for you, create a plan for you, research a thing for you, like do the job for you. And like today, That's today the leader is ChatGPT. I think they're like close to like a billion MAUs. And, you know, Google's going to quickly try to like, you know, Google's trying their best to do that. It seems like nobody else is close in that race specifically, that specific part of the race that every human has an assistant. Speaker 1: OpenAI kind of launched ChatGPT and it was unexpectedly a hit for them. It's crazy to think now, but they didn't think it was going to work that well. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 1: And OpenAI was an enterprise company and then through the success of ChatGPT became a consumer company. Google already has all of this context on you and they actually started this whole LLM thing. They screwed up along the way with BART and all sorts of funny stuff that they did, but now Gemini's really, really good. And so in that consumer race, they've done a very good job, Gemini has, and I think has the momentum on consumer right now. Then there's the enterprise piece, which is like, A lot of enterprise folks use clod and I personally use clod more than I use chat GPT and it just allows me to do more things like for for the kind of research I do on companies. Clod is just my partner. It's my sparring partner like all it's like having like we actually didn't hire somebody this year because. We're using Claude more than ever. Speaker 2: Well, you essentially did. You hired a person named Claude. Yes, exactly. OK, so there's the race to have. Everybody gets the sort of all intelligent, super helpful, always next to you chief of staff. That's that's the ChatGPT analogy. Then you have, you know, like in Game of Thrones, you'd have like whoever is like really good at the sea battles, right? The ocean stuff. That's let's say Enterprise and Anthropics doing pretty well there right now. And they're all going to compete for everything. But like they're doing pretty well right now. And then you have the King of the North. So you have Elon up there and he's marching and he's like, I'm going to put data centers in space and I'm going to catch up with Grok and we're going to win. And so what's your take on how that, where does he go? How does that work? Speaker 1: I would never, ever, ever bet against Elon. But as of right now, I find Grok to not be as useful. But I think, I think like it's possible that everyone has their favorite and Over time, people sort of slot into their favorites. Speaker 2: It's like Coke, Pepsi. Speaker 1: Yeah, like Coke, Pepsi. Right now, if you are working in code, you're probably using Anthropic. Speaker 2: Right, okay, so now, okay, let's keep going through the battle. Then you have all these SaaS companies. You've got Today Sponsor, Hubspot, you've got Salesforce, you've got Adobe, Figma, all these companies that are cranking on revenue and growth and earnings and then their stock is just plummeting because the market believes that they're gonna get somehow eaten away. I believe, it must be that that's why the stock is going down. The business fundamentals are strong, but there's this question of, 20 years in the future, is this company stronger or has it just been eaten away by AI that can do all these things? What do you think happens there? Is that overblown? Is it a buying opportunity or are you equally suspicious of the future of these companies? Speaker 1: I'm suspicious of the future of a lot of these companies and I just think about myself. Like right now, I already am doing a lot of image creation in Gemini, Nana Banana. I'm a paid user of Canva, A bunch of Adobe products. And yet, now most of my image generation is already on NanoBanana. It's just so much easier. So then, can those guys build it? Probably yes. Some of them already have pretty good stuff. Adobe's AI stuff is very good. Figma's good. But will there just be one model to rule them all? And I'll just leave everything in there. It's my assistant. My assistant's doing it for me. So what do you need To be successful as an independent company is a good question because if you look at all these like early AI companies, so there was like There were the ones that just helped you write. Jasper was one. There are some others. And those guys, I don't know how they're doing now, but I imagine not well because I don't need another tool to tell me how to write. ChatGPT can do that for me. And then I think the same is probably going to be true in image generation. And then all these other products, too. Even Law, there are these companies Harvey and Lagora, which are both doing phenomenally well. But Anthropic launched their own legal thing. So like, what are the businesses in which you're You have less to worry about being cannibalized from an existing AI. Speaker 2: Right. There was like a quote from Sam Allman, maybe two years ago or a year ago, where he said they were kind of asking him this question. Hey, developers are trying to build, but we're all worried we're going to get steamrolled. And he was like, yeah, you should think about what we're not going to build. He goes, here's a simple test. Like there's some companies that when we say there's a new model update, they get really excited because it made their existing things so much more valuable. And then there's other companies that are terrified when we say there's a new model update because we might have just swallowed what they did. And you should think really carefully. And their response is sort of like, OK, so what are those things that you're not going to do? Right. That's like it's like a meme where it's like, wait. So are you going to say what they are or we just need to guess, right? Because it seems like an ever-expanding scope. That's pretty tough. Seems like the lawyer one would probably be easier because A, lawyers, you know, it's a workflow specific thing. There's like security compliance. There's like really like a lot of nuance that you would have to build on top of that. Even if ChatGPT can quickly generate a document and write it or read it, Still, probably, there's enough domain-specific workflow and risk where somebody specializing in it will solve the hundred small problems that the lawyers care about that ChatGPT's product managers aren't going to care to do. Speaker 1: Totally. I think that's true. And I think in the case of HubSpot or Salesforce, I don't think those things are going to change overnight. I think it's going to be... People are going to keep using those systems of record for a long time. As a fund, we think about this a lot. My partner, Nihar, wrote a piece last week called The Last Mile Problem. Basically, we talk about what matters. It's what you just said, domain context and workflows. If you've got the specific terms and norms of a given field, if it's healthcare, legal, accounting, you can produce more trusted outcomes. And integrations, so like integrations into your Salesforce instance are valuable or in health EHRs or whatever the case may be. And then there's also some like compliance and human in the loop element that I think really matters. So it's hard to know, though. It really does feel like A lot of these businesses could at least be very challenged by the general models. Speaker 2: If I just gave you a million dollars and I'm like, you've got to invest this into any AI companies, public, private, anywhere, where do you have a lot of conviction? What would that portfolio look like? Where would you put the bets? Let's take a million dollars. Where are you putting the bets? Speaker 1: Yeah. Anthropic being valued at nearly $400 billion and OpenAI at like $800 billion. I'm not going to put it there. How big could those companies get and what's the risk reward? I think, could they be trillion dollar companies? Yeah, but they better be trillion dollar companies. If they're not, that's a failure. So I'm not putting it there. It's wild to think that We only had the first trillion dollar company like not that long ago. Speaker 2: Yeah, what, six, seven years ago, I feel like. Speaker 1: It was a really big deal. And now we have basically almost trillion dollar private companies that didn't even exist 10 years ago. It's crazy. Okay, so where would I put that money? So I think it'd go back to this, like, Where are the vertical opportunities that are very interesting? And I think on the general consumer side, I think it's tough for me to find one because on the consumer side, it feels like I probably am going to be using Gemini or ChatGPT or one of those generalized models. They're going to end up getting my context for the stuff I need. You know, there might be other interesting ones that do stuff like Suno for music is interesting. They've actually, they've grown like crazy to an amount that I would not have predicted. They're like hundreds of millions of revenue, I believe. Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a power user of Suna. Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing. It would be a fun project. I mean, a lot of people are obviously doing this, but a fun project for somebody would be to build a brand around a musician that you've created on AI and market it through Spotify and all that stuff. There are obviously a lot of them out there, but if I had more free time, I would probably do it. Speaker 2: That'd be a fun one to do. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I've played around with that idea as well. Like, what would it take to get on the charts, right? Can I take this song? Could I create an artist with an avatar? Can I build them up on Instagram? How would I do this? And just see like, totally get to play, you know, have this sort of like fantasy musician arc, you know, take you take six months, and just see what you could do. Like, I'm pretty sure I could do it if I just dedicated six months to doing it. Now, again, it's like, maybe it's not worth the time. It's fun. It's on my list. It's on my itch list here of possible projects. Speaker 1: Yeah. On a related note, I just saw this on Twitter, so I don't know if it's fully accurate, but there's an Epstein Files podcast that's entirely AI generated and apparently is now a top 50 podcast on the charts. Speaker 2: I saw when he launched it and he was like, it's getting downloaded like 1000 times an hour right now. And then it was like, update 3000 times an hour, right? It was like, but what is the actual podcast? What is it? Is reading the emails out loud? Like what is it trying to do? Speaker 1: I so after I saw the tweet, I went and I listened to the intro. And it's kind of like Notebook LM. So it's like, it's like they're two hosts talking back and forth about it. And they talk about a different thing each episode. Speaker 2: I wonder how many more things are going to be like this, right? So like, I'm not safe as a podcaster, right? Because you can, you can create podcasts about, you know, about anything. And now if you can auto create it, so what they did was they were basically like, here's the source material. That's very juicy. It's very dense and maybe it's gonna keep growing, right? So there's some runway here. And then you feed it into NotebookLM and then you create a podcast out of it automatically. You could do that about everything. I could do that about sports. I could do that about anything that has this big feed of, like you feed stock to put into the bottle, right? That's pretty wild. I thought about creating a podcast that was interviews with the great dead. So it's basically like, Could I do a podcast with Steve Jobs now with AI? Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Speaker 2: Maybe I could. Maybe the tools are now good enough where you could actually figure out, like, what would he say? And it actually has enough. It would give, like, sensible answers. You could copy his voice using 11 Labs. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: You could create a digital avatar using one of the video models. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: And you could do the whole thing. And so, like, that's kind of interesting. Like, well, what if I did that? That'd be cool. Like, you know, just me and Genghis Khan for today's episode. Speaker 1: Totally. Have you seen Delphi? Speaker 2: They're making like a clone, right? Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: What is it? Speaker 1: Yeah, so you can make it's Delphi.ai. You can basically make a digital clone of yourself and they have them with like I'm Arnold Schwarzenegger and other folks like that. You can talk to them, basically do kind of what you just said. Speaker 2: Are they pretty good? Speaker 1: They're pretty good. I haven't played around with it that much, but from what I saw, it was pretty good. And apparently the company's doing very well. They raised from Sequoia after the races. Wow. Speaker 2: So people are like, I just want to chat with Michael Ovitz on here. I want to chat with Michael Ovitz. Speaker 1: Yeah. I saw Lenny has one, Lenny Rogitsky. Your guy, Brian Halligan, has one and he does like founder coaching via Delphi. Speaker 2: So I think- So I just asked Michael Ovitz, the creator of CAA, the talent agency. I said, I was like, I'm having a meeting about our podcast deal to renegotiate. What should I do? And here we go. I got Michael Ovitz representing me now. This is fantastic. Speaker 1: That is incredible. Speaker 2: He's like, you're negotiating leverage, not just rates. And then he goes into this long strategy. Okay, this might be awesome, actually. I don't have to give this guy 10% either. This is fantastic. Today's episode is brought to you by Hubspot. Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book but then tearing out four-fifths of the pages. Point is, you miss a lot. And unless you're using Hubspot, the customer platform that gives you access to the data you need to grow your business, the insights that are trapped in emails, call logs, transcripts, all that unstructured data makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. And so if you want to read the whole book instead of just reading part of it, visit Hubspot.com. All right, so that's it. Are you personally using AI in any interesting ways? Speaker 1: I think there's some simple stuff that's just too annoying for me to do. My wife works at Metta. After five years there, you get a five-week break called recharge, and we're figuring out what to do. And there's a ton of research I'm trying to do, and one of the ideas is We're doing a road trip in a camper van in Europe. There are these things called relocation specials that I've done a bunch of times where they need to move a camper van from one place to another and they basically give you the camper van for free and you can move it over a couple of weeks. I've done it multiple times and it's fun because you take the camper van one way. Normally you have to take it and bring it back to the same place. This is both cheap and you don't have to bring it back to the same place. And it'll usually be like a new van. They have to move from the factory somewhere else. What is it? Speaker 2: Private jets? Empty legs? Speaker 1: Empty legs, yeah, kind of like empty legs, but for the normal people like us. So I've had AI do a bunch of research and find it for me, message the camper van places and ask them. That's been kind of fun and useful. For this event I had, I wanted to save some money and had AI do an exam for me to become a licensed travel person. I saved 16% on this big event. Speaker 2: So you needed to become a licensed travel agent, or what did you have to become? Speaker 1: Yeah, it was sort of a hack because one of my portfolio companies helped me that is in the travel space, but I had to do these exams. It was like, I don't remember how many hours. It was like 10 hours of training and then some exam. And I just, I had AI do it for me. Speaker 2: And so it goes through all the training material. It took the exam as well? It took the exam as well. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: That's amazing. All right. You had this tweet a little while back. I've been wanting to ask you about. So you were, somebody tweeted out, They said, the worst mistakes are decisions in human history. And they were, you know, Adam and Eve eating from the forbidden dream, the Mavs trading with Luka Doncic. So they're just going through random examples. And then you had a bunch from the business world. I wanted to go through this. I was curious if you have any, you know, tell some of these stories. I don't think all these stories are super well known. Speaker 1: Totally. A lot of them are this like innovators dilemma. That's kind of a broad theme, which is, So Kodak, they invented the digital camera, and then they didn't sell it because they were worried it would suppress their film sales. And then all these other companies started selling digital cameras, and then Kodak basically went out of business. Speaker 2: It's kind of the worst way to lose, right? That's my nightmare as a business person. Speaker 1: And then the same thing happened with Excite. So Google wanted to sell to Excite. For $750,000, very early on, it was just Larry and Sergey wanted to sell this idea to them. And Excite said, we don't want them to get answers. We want them to stay on the page so we can serve up ads. And then so obviously the rest is history there. So those are kind of like a theme is You would cannibalize our business, so we're not gonna do it. And that actually, back to our early discussion about AI, that's one that I was worried that Google would get into. I think a lot of people were worried Google would have that problem, and Google's stock was really in the shitter a year and a half ago. And then as Google, like Gemini became great and people realized, okay, like so there's not just sitting back saying, I'm not going to, I'm not going to do this. Like he's doing it too. And then Google stock has done really well. But I think that was a big worry people had because how Google makes money is on ads when you're searching for stuff. And if you're not searching for stuff, like their entire revenue model goes away. Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a good one. What about this story of it seems like another one is like selling early. That's the Ron Wayne story. So what's the what's the Ron Wayne story? Yeah. Speaker 1: Ron Wayne was a co-founder of Apple with Jobs and Wozniak. And very early on, he He had a 10% stake in the company and he thought it wasn't going to be worth anything and wanted to focus on other stuff. So he sold his stake back to them for $800. Which is cruel, yeah. Speaker 2: $800, not even like 800 grand. So he owned 10% of Apple. He's like kind of written out of history. I didn't know he was actually like a co-founder. What did he do? What was this guy's role? Wozniak's making the computer, Jobs is Jobs. Speaker 1: He worked at Atari. I'm with Jobs and Wozniak. He was actually one of the early people that brought them together. And he was like, let's figure out a new business opportunity. And I think it was actually like in his home that they created the idea for Apple. And it was like it was split between Wozniak and Jobs. Like I think they each owned 45 percent. But Wayne, for like bringing them together, he was like he was like the adult, the original adult in the room. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 1: And then I think there was something where like Steve Jobs got a line of credit that they would be personally liable for to purchase materials to fulfill an order. And so Ron Wayne was like, listen, I can't be personally liable for this. I'm out. And he sold his shares back for 800 bucks. Speaker 2: What happened to this guy? Has he talked about this? Did he end up doing okay? There was a guy who was a partner with Buffett and Munger. I forget what his name is. Rick something. And he got over leveraged. He had to sell his stake back to Buffett and Munger and basically missed out on Berkshire. And, you know, he ended up doing well outside of it. But like, you know, a cautionary tale for like kind of Buffett, I think said it best. He goes, you know, Rick was in a hurry. And he's like, me and Charlie, we were not. And that was the difference. Speaker 1: Yeah. I looked it up afterwards. Wayne ran a stamp shop. Speaker 2: And he'll be just going to be like a Netflix original someday. Speaker 1: Tell me about this one. Speaker 2: So you said SoftBank. They own five percent of Nvidia. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: And they sold it to plow all the money into WeWork. And what I'm interested to hear is actually your opinion on Masa. So I don't know a lot about the guy. But I can't tell, is this guy a genius or an idiot? Like, you know, when they, when he released like his, like, I believe in AI, raise the vision fund, he releases the deck and it's like a picture of like a unicorn flying. And it's like, there's not a two syllable word in this deck. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, this is made by children, but this is actually the deck and the vision of this, like the biggest venture fund in the world. Did he just get lucky? Is this just a guy who got lucky? And it's kind of like, you know, I've been to casinos where I play against, you know, some random, you know, guy who's an Asian guy who's got a huge chip stack. And then you you're like, wow, you assume he must be great. Then you realize like, oh, no, this guy is like, superstitious. And if this is happening, he goes all in and he just happened to win, right? Like, what's the story of Masa? Is he a genius or an idiot? Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, I know people who have pitched him and people who've worked with him who are still wondering the answer to that question. Unknown Speaker: I don't know. Speaker 1: I mean, so like the backstory for people who don't know is he had this legendary bet, which was on Alibaba. He invested them very early on after he met Jack Ma. He put in $20 million and it turned into $100 billion. So like, just like this massive... Speaker 2: And he had the $20 million from what? He created like CES, right? Was that the first thing? He created like these tech conferences or magazines or something? Speaker 1: SoftBank was like a software distributor and publisher. And it was like really big in Japan. And they partnered with Yahoo to create Yahoo Japan, which Yahoo Japan ended up being way more successful than Yahoo in the US. And so they, because it was a JV, Yahoo only owned a small part of it. I think SoftBank owned more. And they had a bunch of money from Yahoo Japan. And I think that's what he plowed into Alibaba. Speaker 2: Okay, so he was a good entrepreneur at least, right? A great entrepreneur. Speaker 1: I think he's like, and he's very risky. He's fully risk on. He lost all of his money, then gained it back, and then does it again. And he's like, he'll go full leverage. All out debt. And look, with the Vision Fund, $100 billion fund, what's crazy is $100 billion fund seemed so crazy that it was like, is it even real? Is this April Fool's Day? Like when it launched, whatever, six, seven years, I don't know, I guess now. We met eight or nine years ago, and they wrote massive checks into a bunch of companies, sometimes competing companies, and I never thought it would work, and my main reasoning for at the time thinking it wouldn't work was the companies that need a lot of money are not necessarily the companies that you want to plow money into. It ended up being a lot of money-losing companies that now, eventually, many of them ended up being successful, like Uber and DoorDash, You know, then there was WeWork, which I think they put the most money into. Speaker 2: Yeah, so what's the verdict on the Vision Fund? It did well? Are we just too early to say? Speaker 1: I think it ended up being okay. It's an okay fund. It's not great, but if you're looking to deploy a million dollars, there are ways you can get five, ten million dollars if you invest in a good fund. If you're deploying a hundred billion dollars, you're not expecting to 5X it. One and a half, two X it, maybe that's okay, depending on timeline. Speaker 2: Gotcha. What do you think people should be paying attention to? And maybe the better way of asking that is, what are things you're paying attention to right now that you don't think a lot of other people are? Or, you know, the masses, maybe, or even like general population of smart individuals, right? So not like literally the average American, but also not the guys at your VC dinner, so somebody in between, the general smart person. What are they underweighting, paying less attention to, thinking about the wrong way that you were paying attention to differently? Speaker 1: I think everyone, and I'm encouraging my parents to do it too, should just be, and this is like an easy answer, should be just using AI more. I think When my parents give me an assignment, like my parents often are like, hey, Sheel, can you book this for me? I'm their personal assistant. And now I'm trying to teach them to use AI and actually they're doing it. And it actually kind of surprised me, but they're able to look stuff up on AI that they weren't doing a month ago and they're getting answers. And I'm also encouraging them not to send me like stupid fake forwards and to look everything up and make sure it's legit. Speaker 2: Today's podcast is brought to you by my friends at Mercury. They make the world's best banking product. I think you know this already. I use Mercury for all of my businesses. I think I have like maybe seven or eight businesses. We use Mercury as our business banking across all of them. And now they actually just launched a personal banking account. So I have my personal account there. I moved off of Wells Fargo and Chase. I'm just all in on Mercury. Speaker 1: Why? Speaker 2: I like products that are easy to use. I like products that get me and the problems that I have. So like very easy to make a joint account with my wife. Very easy to spin up virtual cards. One click and I get savings yield. It just has all the stuff that I need in one place. So if you're looking for the best banking product on the market, it's definitely Mercury. I will fist fight anybody who disagrees with me on that. Go to mercury.com slash personal and learn more. Mercury is a FinTech, not an FDIC insured bank. Banking services are provided through Choice Financial Group in column NA, members FDIC. I'm curious if you have any non-consensus or contrarian opinions about something. So, for example, you know, most people think that X, Y, Z is, you know, kind of useless. But actually, I think that's wrong. I think this is amazing. I'll give you I'll give you a simple example. So Brian Johnson was initially, I would say, completely overlooked. The first time we had him on the podcast, he really wasn't like Brian Johnson, the kind of media personality at the time. He didn't have a big social media. He just had his website blog where he's uploading like his own like blood markers to. And we were like, oh, this is cool. This guy's like really tracking everything and he's publishing it on a blog. And then Brian Johnson became this like kind of like beacon of longevity. And then people are like, wait, is he a vampire? What's going on over here? Like, is this too much? And so he became this like polarized figure. And now he's like full on like YouTuber, content creator. And so one of my like opinions that I don't think a lot of people share or even have thought much about is I think Brian Johnson might be the best content creator on earth right now. You know, like I just think he's like running circles around everybody in the same way that when people saw what the Kardashians were doing early on. Speaker 1: We're the Paul brothers. Speaker 2: It was really easy to dismiss as, you know, sort of silly, stupid, useless, whatever. And then, like, you know, fast forward a decade and they built these really big empires off of that. I think what Brian Johnson is doing on social media is incredible. And it just literally is just a content creator. Like, I just think what he's done is genius. Speaker 1: I think a lot of folks, especially going into a new area they weren't before, they started on content and became successful that way. In my world of venture capital, Andreessen Horowitz, all of the storied venture firms are pretty old. They were around in the dot-com bubble. The only new one is Andreessen Horowitz. The way they did it was by owning and controlling the media. And they've done a really good job at it. They have a lot of people, they put out a lot of content, and it's worked for them. Speaker 2: And that was pretty strategic of them, right? So like, they enter the VC world, they want to do well. To do well in the VC world, you need to have brand that will either bring deals to you or get you access into a deal when you want it, to be able to go lead that round, right? Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: And so, I guess like, give me the inside baseball there. How did they approach that problem? How did they solve that problem? Speaker 1: Yeah, so you need a brand. You want to be recognized. And the way they did it, like, so first of all, it's only like 15 years old, Andrews & Horowitz. And if you if you look at the other storied firms, Benchmark, Sequoia, etc. They're a lot older and they really earned their reputation sequoia even earlier, but benchmark in the dot-com era. So these guys basically said like, we're going to do it differently. And we're going to provide, instead of just having one partner to work with, you're going to work with a whole team of people and we're going to support it with content. So we're going to promote our portfolio with content, but also people are going to listen to that content. They're going to think about Andreessen Horowitz and think like, those are smart people I want to raise from. And it really, before Andreessen Horowitz, there was not a lot of content on Venture. A couple guys had blogs, and Andreessen totally changed the game. And actually, they learned from Michael Ovitz. I think Ovitz did a lot in building this CAA into this, you have this whole team of support around you, and that's what Andreessen modeled it off of. Speaker 2: Right, right. Yeah, it seems like you had Fred Wilson have a blog or whatever. And I've seen this now in a couple spaces where We all think we're doing the thing. Like I would say at the time, there were some VCs who thought we were doing content. What do you mean? Oh yeah, I have my blog. And then they're like, somebody brings the gun to a knife fight where they're like, oh, here's what we're going to do. We're going to invest essentially, you know, like, I would, how much do you think they spend every year on just the media and content side? Like, what are you, what do you think is the expense part of the P&L for them? Speaker 1: It's got to be easily tens of millions. Speaker 2: Easily tens of millions. Exactly. Tens of millions of dollars on content. So you're like, we're doing content. And then they were like, well, here's what we're going to do. We're going to build this like a company. And we're going to like they made acquisitions in that space. They bought Eric's company. They have huge teams of people. They create multiple shows. They have studio sets. They go on tour. They're spending a huge portion of their time just going on other shows. And so They go in with just a level of seriousness and scale that just blows other people out of the water. And I've seen this over and over again, the Charlie Munger quote, take a simple idea, but take it seriously. Where it's like, we're doing this, right? And the Mr. Beast, like we got to know Jimmy recently, like the last few years. And like he did the same thing, like YouTubers were a thing and YouTubers would do these stunts or challenges. And he just took that simple idea. Way more seriously than everybody else. He's like, well, I'm going to put all the money into it. I'm going to build my own sets. If you've ever been to his place, I mean, it's like giant. He's got the biggest soundstage in North America. He's building the biggest sets. It's like a construction company when you walk through his area. He's got teams of people. Every dollar they make, they invest and more. They lose money on every video. YouTubers were like, hey, we're doing this, right? And then he did it at a different level of scale and seriousness. And so I always find that interesting because whenever you go into a new space, sometimes the right idea is actually there. It just hasn't been taken to the limit. And if you took it to the limit, which is also what Brian Johnson did, by the way, like biohacking, quantified self, that was an existing community. And he just took it to the limit. And when you take it to the limit, you get a whole new thing, a whole new level of success can emerge. Speaker 1: I think a lot of these folks, if you're starting something new, you have to take it to the limit. Speaker 2: Yeah. You just sent me this thing. I've seen this before. Explain what this is. Explain this tweet. Speaker 1: I thought this might be fun. Basically, two weeks ago, I saw that the Breaking Bad house, the house that Brian Cranston throws the pizza on top of, was for sale in Albuquerque. Speaker 2: Iconic. Speaker 1: Iconic house for anybody who's seen Breaking Bad. And so a friend of mine, a friend of mine told me it was for sale and I was like, we need to buy this. Speaker 2: Was this like very publicized or like kind of a friend just noticed, hey, that's the house? Unknown Speaker: Like how popular was it? Speaker 1: It was publicized. Like it got out there and it was listed at $400,000 because that's kind of, it's kind of like a small, it's like a 1900 square foot house in the suburbs of Albuquerque, like 25 minutes from downtown. And I immediately was like, we need to buy this house. It was listed at 400,000. And so we like booked a flight to Albuquerque like an hour later. And we like built this model around what are we going to do with this house? How much can we spend on it? Speaker 2: So you go to the house. Does it look like the show inside still or it looks totally different? Speaker 1: It looks totally different on the inside. Speaker 2: OK, so they changed the inside. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: Huge mistake. When they did the show, that was just someone's home, basically. Speaker 1: And it's this family that's lived in the house since the 70s. They bought it for almost nothing in the 70s. And then they they like got a call from the show saying, like, hey, your house looks like a normal house in Albuquerque that we might want to use. Wow. They only use the exterior of the house. They didn't use the interior of the house for filming. Speaker 2: Oh, okay, gotcha. And were they just annoyed people kept taking pictures of the house? Because in San Francisco, there's like the full house house that was a couple blocks from me, and just people were constantly stopping and taking photos of it. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. It's extremely annoying for them. So much so that they built a fence around the house so you couldn't actually throw pizza over. And then The Neighbors Are Pissed. It's not a good situation. So they were like, let's sell this house. And they listed it for like, fair market value might be $350,000, like looking at comps, and they listed at $400,000. And they tried to do like a museum or something, but they got shut down by the city. And so it's been, you know, the show's been off for what, like 12 years. They could have turned it into something amazing in the meantime, but they did. They just continued to live there. And so they list it for $400,000. We say, okay, like, how much can we make off this thing if we turn it into an Airbnb? And I love experiences that are also the house. I stayed in Brian Chesky's house. I've stayed in a bunch of architects' homes around the world. I love unique architecture. So I thought, I could turn this into an Airbnb. What do we do? So we built this model around it. We assumed we could charge $800 a night versus, it's a four-bedroom place. In the area, you might be able to charge $250 a night, but given Given that it's an iconic place, if I went to Albuquerque with some friends, I would definitely want to stay in the house. It would be worth it for the story. We assumed 60% occupancy. We made a bunch of assumptions based on information we learned. We looked up what the Stranger Things house is going for, all sorts of stuff like that. And then also what the rules around short-term listings are. We actually spent time with an Airbnb consultant. I called up an Airbnb consultant and spoke to her for an hour and got some ideas there. I had this other idea of, I'll build an RV like his RV and just park it out front. That'll be another bedroom because there's not enough space in the house. And so we basically got comfortable that we could spend $900,000 for this thing and it'd be worth it. I'm sorry. Speaker 2: So the math was, you thought worst case scenario, well worst case scenario is ridiculously low. So you didn't even need to worry about that one too much, but you were basically, the expected case was that it would make like 175 grand a year of rental income off the Airbnb. And that it would cost $120K to run. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: And you'd net something like $55K, $60K a year off this rental property that you own in Albuquerque. And more importantly, an epic story. Speaker 1: An epic story. Absolutely epic story. It was honestly so fun. Actually, part of what I love about my job is I get to do this. I get to do due diligence on a space I don't know much about. Over the course of the next day, I learned a lot about Airbnb's. I learned a lot about Breaking Bad, a lot about this house. Speaker 2: To be clear, does this have anything to do with your job? This has nothing to do with your job. Speaker 1: Due diligence. My job is like doing due diligence. Speaker 2: Use the same skills. Gotcha. Speaker 1: Yeah, same skills. So we decided we could spend around $900,000 and it would be worthwhile. It would make us a decent return and then also, to your point, be just an epic story, be so fun to own it. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 1: But then the major risk was Albuquerque has these short-term rental laws where neighbors can Call this hotline and basically shut you down if they're unhappy. And so there was some concern that that happens. And if the short-term rental ability goes away, this house becomes worth $350,000, like exactly, you know, what every other house around it is. And so there was some risk there that it's hard to price in. But basically we decided we could spend up to $900,000 and Ultimately, the house went for over a million. We don't know exactly how much, but it was sold to Aiden Ross, who, for those who don't know, who's a popular streamer. And, you know, for him, he's got a totally different revenue stream, which is like he can make a ton of money streaming to this audience. He can market to this audience. So he came at it with something that we just don't have and can't compete with. But it was really fun doing this. Speaker 2: So somebody who owns the Stranger Things house, what are they making? Speaker 1: It's like $2,000 a night and it's fully booked. 100% occupancy. Speaker 2: Did they make the inside match the show? Speaker 1: Yeah, they made the inside match the show and put a bunch of other memorabilia in. That was our plan too, was like reconfigure it to make it look more like the original. Like some of the rooms will look like the original parts of the show and then the other rooms will just have like breaking bad memorabilia. Speaker 2: We had talked a long time ago about buying Michael Jordan's house, which was on sale for like a very long time in Chicago. It had like started at like 20 something million and then had dropped all the way down to like 13, 12. And on one of the early episodes of this podcast, we're like, should we buy Michael Jordan's house? And like, can we turn it into whether it's an Airbnb, it's like a We were like, you know, you could fractionally like you could use an NFT basically to fractionally own it. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: And so it's not an Airbnb, actually. It's a bunch of people who co-own this thing. And ultimately, we kind of took our eye off it. It ended up selling for like. I think like seven or eight million dollars. I ended up going for like kind of a steal to this guy who was just like a business guy in the area who was like, dude, I can buy Michael Jordan's house. This is amazing. And he's turned it into like, you know, a short term rental sort of deal as well. Speaker 1: I have one more thing, which is I had another business idea for people. OK, so, you know, we've we've talked about parents before. I think my dad is kind of a funny guy and I'm always trying to get him to work out to like, you know, live longer. And you know people like us do stuff like berries bootcamp soul cycle like these classes and the idea is. Just a Barry's Bootcamp style class for old people. And you could. Unknown Speaker: Isn't it Zumba? Speaker 2: Isn't that what Zumba is? Speaker 1: It's not exactly geared towards old people. I think I think you can. Speaker 2: Easier. Speaker 1: Make it easier, like sort of. Speaker 2: Yes. Speaker 1: Lighter contact and emphasize stuff like balance, joint work and even like maybe even cognitive exercises. And you basically have this like welcoming place for people 55 plus who have a lot of free time and want to stay active and healthy. And maybe you you build like a club around it is the idea. Speaker 2: So that's, I think it's a great idea. I'll tell you why. So I have a trainer who basically was like, you know, kind of like had a bodybuilding era, trained a bunch of brides trying to get in shape for weddings, all the classic models, right? Then like, you know, me, like tech guy trying to, you know, work out. So he comes to my house. I've been working with him for, I don't know, five, six years now. So I was like, I really want my mom to work out. Like, I think it'd be great for her. And she's too cheap to like, you know, be like, oh, a personal trainer, like 100 bucks for a session. That's like three months at the gym over here, like at the YMCA. Like, I'm not doing that. And so for Christmas, I got her like, I was like, I paid for it. My trainer will train you for a little bit. She got hooked. So then she started like, oh, I'm definitely going to make this investment. And she loves it. She's been doing it for years now and she's been in great shape. So my trainer basically like suddenly his clientele over the last couple of years has totally pivoted where his entire network is basically like aunties and uncles of like the Indian community. And so like my mom was doing it and then my father-in-law started doing it. I posted this video of him running and my father-in-law, I think he's like 79 years old. And he, um, I see this video on Instagram of him running and I'm like, what, like, what is going on here? And he's like, he feels so good. He's moving again. He was having like blood pressure and headaches and things like that. This has really been helping him. He fell at our house. We had this stool that's like, kind of like we shouldn't have this stool, like a little risky. Like, I don't even know why we have it, but he was, he's sitting on a fell. And literally the first thing he says when he falls is like, good thing I've been training. Cause he like bounced back right away. Didn't like break a hip. So we were like, this is amazing. So then his brother, his, and so like my trainer basically goes from my house. To like people who are literally like learning to walk again, stand straight again, like just be able to move, rotate, because one thing that you lose a lot as you grow old is you stiffen up. So you lose rotational ability, which if you go to the gym and you sit on one of the machines or elliptical, like the things that older people do at the gym, it's all rigid, no rotation type of exercise. And if you do rotation unsupervised, you can also really get hurt. Anyways, he's been doing this, and I've been telling him the same idea. I'm like, bro, this is a real act of service that you're doing for the world. There's not other great options for people who are 50 to 80 years old who want some form of organized, tell-me-what-to-do movement, ideally in a social format where you're with a group of people, you got out of the house. There are so many benefits. My grandparents used to just go to Costco every day because it was like, It's like a place to go. They would walk around. They would see people. They could get like a $2 meal. It was awesome. And so that was a huge deal for them. They don't really have third spaces the same way that younger people have. So I kind of love this idea. Speaker 1: Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. I'm surprised it doesn't exist already. I kind of did a little bit of research. I couldn't find anything. So I knew something here. Speaker 2: Well, there's no like killer brand, even if obviously there's going to be something that exists. There's nobody's built like SoulCycle, who's built Barry's, who's built just like a really fun. And by the way, this playbook has been done 50 times now, right? Like SolidCore and F45 or whatever. There's like so many of these. You could literally just copy the blueprint. You just change the demo. I also wonder if you could like get the insurance to cover it in some way. Is there some like Medicaid? Speaker 1: Medicare Advantage plans should cover something. So there is there's something called Silver Sneakers, which is a great name, which is a fitness program for older adults through Medicare Advantage plans. Speaker 2: But it's like a P90X, like digital or? Speaker 1: No, it's actually it gives members access to gyms. And actually my dad does this. I think that's how he pays for his YMCA. But it doesn't it's not like They don't have this specific thing, which I'm thinking about, which is like a bootcamp around low-impact and senior-friendly stuff. Speaker 2: This is great. Wait, so SilverSneakers, that's a private company. And they're basically saying, you get access, so they kind of class passed it. They went and did partnerships. Is that how they did this? Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah. classes. But it's different. It's videos. And then they have partnerships with gyms. Speaker 2: Yeah, this is interesting. Speaker 1: Like these guys, the silver sneakers, like they're not going to do, you know, like the modern way of doing things. They're like an old school company. Speaker 2: Right. But it says here 19 million Americans available to more than 19 million Americans through Medicare Advantage plans, supplement carriers and group retiree plans. That's cool. Yeah, there's definitely an opportunity here. I like these because I feel like with AI, Let's look like, you know, with AI, you kind of want AI proof businesses. If you're going to if you're going to start something new, either you need to be a big beneficiary of AI or you need to be AI proof. You want to be on either end of the spectrum. You don't want to be in the middle. And so AI proof, like, you know, there's not going to be AI that works your body out for you. Like even if it's if it's smarter, it guides you, you're still going to have to do the workout. Speaker 1: Totally. Speaker 2: And so giving people a place to go, especially if AI gives people more free time or more income, like anything like that, it could be a big beneficiary of that. I like this idea. Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a fun one. Speaker 2: Cool. All right, Sheel, I appreciate you coming on and sharing ideas, insights and all that stuff, man. Always good to hang. Speaker 1: Likewise, man. That was fun. Unknown Speaker: All right, my friends, I have a new podcast for you guys to check out. It's called Content is Profit and it's hosted by Luis and Fonzie Cameo. After years of building content teams and frameworks for companies like Red Bull and Orange Theory Fitness, Luis and Fonzie are on a mission to bridge the gap between content and revenue. In each episode, you're going to hear from top entrepreneurs and creators and you're going to hear them share their secrets and strategies to turn their content into profit. So you can check out content is profit wherever you get your podcasts.