How to Make $70K in a Day Sending Emails | Nate Kennedy !!

The Email Resurrection Begins It's funny because email's been claimed dead by probably five different marketers, right? Email is dead probably about five, six different marketers over the years. And it just keeps resurrecting, man. Just keeps coming back. You're watching London Marketing Misfits with Norm Farrar and Kevin King. [Music] Mr. Norm Ferrar, you're back again. you had to show up again. One of these Song Debates times, you know, it it's just going to be just going to be me or just going to be you. But why is it always me and you or you and me? Or is it which way is it? You and me or me and you? That's a really good song, G. I could just see us skipping down the road, holding hands. It sounds like a great theme. That mental image is not working well for me. That's the theme song. That's what we can do. I You know what was actually a good mental image was actually yesterday. Um you know, we Behind the Scenes record we record these podcasts in in batches a lot of times and uh yesterday after after the podcast I got off and I did a little bit of business and you know what? I made about $70,000 yesterday and and I didn't I didn't I didn't sell a single physical product. I didn't do any consulting. Um do you know how I did it? your body. No, it wasn't on Only Fans. You know, that that gig, don't tell anybody about that stuff. Uh, no, it's actually remember our guest yesterday. He talked about two things. Jordan uh Hall or the guest we talked to yesterday may have been an episode or two back uh when people were listening to this. Uh, but he talked about two most important things in this new AI and this marketing world and that's distribution and and owning which is basically owning an audience is is part of the distribution side of it. And that's what you and I both do, not only with the podcast. And the podcast is great because people are tuning in and listening, but we don't really own them in in in the true sense of the word of own because we don't know who they are. They they know who we me and you are, but we don't know who they are. We don't have a way to directly reach to them. But when you started when you have an email list or an SMS list or a physical uh mailing address, you have a way to actually reach people. That's probably the most valuable asset to any business is a list of your customers. And in our world, email is probably the easiest one to do. And you have a newsletter, the lunchwithnorm newsletter comes out every Monday for those that haven't been checking it out. Lunchwithnorm.com. Um, no, lwn.news. Lwn, no, sorry, lw.news. Um, and then I have billiondollar sellers, billiondollarellers.com that comes out twice a week. And I've been doing this for about two years. You've been doing yours for a couple years as well. And we both leverage that not only as the audience to where we can reach people to tell them about our events, about the podcast, about things we're doing, but we also make money off of that. And yesterday I sold $70,000 worth List Assets: The Real Distribution Advantage of ads to my newsletter that has about $30,000 subscribers. Um, I'm actually only sent into 18,000 of them right now. I've had 50 something,000 sign up. I've kicked off 20,000 for not opening and clicking. And I've been doing some other finetuning and I'm down to 18,000 now core people and it's helping a lot on on a lot of stuff. Um, but to that 18,000 core people, I leverage that and sell advertising in the newsletter, but I also do what's called what I call dedicated emails where on the days that I'm not sending out the newsletter, and I think you you do this too, I'll send an email on behalf of a sponsor. So, it's a dedicated email. It's just them an email and I'll send that out and I charge $4,000 per email for that. Um I'm sold out for the next two two plus months. Uh and I had someone today say they want two spots or they wanted a discount uh because they're buying two spots and I said no. Uh and they said, "Well, I'm not sure I'll advertise." Says, "No problem. Someone else will fill it." Because these things work. And our guest today, this is what he does. I mean, he's one of the masters and one of the OGs when it comes to newsletters. And I think it he does micro newsletters and and leveraging these and monetizing them. And so I'm super super stoked to have uh Nate uh on on the show today because I think um he's going to be sharing a lot of valuable information with the audience and and and you and I uh probably learn a thing or two as well. 100%. And you know, one thing that uh we talked about in the other podcast and many other podcasts is building a community. And what I find is newsletters is probably the simplest way to really hone in and build that The Guest Reveal: Enter Nate Kennedy community. So, why don't we get to our guest? Let's do it. Let's bring on the man, the myth, the legend, Mr. Nate Kennedy. All right. There we go. Look at that. I did my job. You did. You You're getting good after a year of hitting the button. Normiled it. Nailed it. You nailed it. How you doing, Nate? I'm great. How are you guys? I I'm I'm good. We're good. So So uh Norm, the first time Norm meeting you, uh we met at a at a at a conference uh in in Austin, but I've been following you for Monetizing Newsletters & List Health for a while, and I really like what you're doing. Uh especially when it comes to the to the email and and marketing space, uh newsletter space, but that's not where you got your start. You've been like at this game selling millions and millions of dollars worth of stuff for a while, right? I have. I've uh I got introduced into the internet world uh into the interwebs back in 2006 and started as an affiliate marketer actually. So, and that parlayed into owning some products. I was in the real estate space. So, I you know flipping real estate deals and I productized that and you know back then we had to you like build and code pages ourselves, right? So, did all that. I learned a lot of how how to code and run ads and run paid ads and everything. Just kind of trial and error to figure it out and along the way I hired some people and stuff like that. But yeah, it was uh it it's it's been a while, man. I've been in the game for a little bit. So back in two 2006, we're having to actually go into the HTML code or the PHP code and actually actually like tweak it because there wasn't all these landing page builders and all this kind of stuff that we have now that just makes it one click or AI building it for you or whatever. Yeah. Way back then and like well shortly after I got in this thing came out called the butterfly script which was like the original like oneclick upsell. Mike Phil Same I think was the one who created it. Oh yeah. So yeah, it allowed us allowed us to do oneclick upsells without having to like code it. It was pretty cool. But yeah, that's uh we've come a massive we've I mean the we've come a long long way and AI is actually even accelerating you know the last 15 years will probably be feel like two years over the next year with AI. So it's wild for sure. So you and your focus now is it primarily the the email marketing and newsletter stuff or are you still doing a lot of the digital marketing and ad u agency capital stuff too? Yeah, that's it's uh we've evolved right over the years. I guess it kind of step back for you. So when I got in, I was buying and building out my own products and brands and then I ended up selling those off and just started an agency. Then I had the agency for quite a while for about just about 10 years and ran tons of traffic, built a bunch of funnels, did all that for our clients, kind of hired, you know, a hired gun at that point. And in 2020, I went in straight into email, launched, basically said, "Hey, I want to own all my audiences. I want to control that side of it because I know if I own the audience, people will come to me and buy traffic, right? I wanted a a little sliver of the pie of the paid ad world uh with doing that. And when you own your audience, you have that ability. So, for me now, I've done that for the last five years. I have a company called Click Movement that runs all that. And I've got a great great team of people over there. And then I also have I I still do run paid ads for myself and to grow my newsletters and then I have paid ads that I do like I've got my own info product um newsletter stuff that I sell as well. So I'm still involved in that side. You know what? I'm surprised that we have this podcast and you would think it reaches a lot of people and the sponsorship on this podcast I would have thought would have been or the money making abilities from the podcast would have been a lot bigger than any newsletter. And it's the complete opposite when we started building out these newsletters. Uh like Kevin was talking about this and he's like come on Kevin you know this is old news. Uh there's no way you can make money on this. And he's saying yeah look at and he he started to make some money. I looked at it and I started to build up mine and right now sponsorship wise that's probably one of the biggest revenue streams we have. It's just a shock. And even you talking about email, you talk to most sellers, they think email's dead or they don't want to, you know, uh uh annoy, I'll put it that way. I I'll say it the nice way, annoy their their customers, right? But this is it's still a year year and a half for me and I'm still absolutely shocked at even the new revenue streams that can come through uh newsletters, dedicated emails and just email clients as like just building lists. Yeah, it's it it's a massive opportunity, right? And I think there's a lot of attention being pushed out on social and podcast and everything else, but if you can drive them into your newsletter and own that audience and have that communication, you're right. A lot of people I talked to a lot of people like, "Well, I don't want to email. They might unsubscribe." I was like, "That's all right, man. They're just telling you, you know, they're they're improving your metrics because they're leaving better open, you know what I mean? Yeah. They're having you get in other inboxes by unsubscribing." Exactly. Yeah. So, it's, you know, it's it's pretty wild that, you know, a lot of people don't use email. And it's funny because email's been claimed dead by probably five different marketers, right? Email is dead probably about five, six different marketers over the years. And it just keeps resurrecting, man. Just keeps coming back. It's one of the oldest forms of of internet communication. I mean, it's one of the original. I mean, you had the Digital Beginnings & Affiliate Discoveries little B2B boards and like where you had to go like on little dollop modem and like it's almost like an old school kind of like walkie-talkie chat kind of thing. And then then but email was one of the first I think it was the first mass way to communicate. Uh and I I did a newsletter back in in the late 1990s, early 2000s. We had 250,000 people on this newsletter. This is before can spam and it was daily and we we built crown jobs to send it out at certain hours of the day when when they wanted it. They could actually pick I wanted at 3:00 every day my local time and we would send it at that time and it did did really well and then can spam kind of killed it because uh there weren't all the tools and stuff and figure out how the how everything works now. So I went away from it and I came back and like Norm said when I launched it uh two year my newsletter two years ago a lot of people were like uh there's no way you can keep up with the content. You know, this first I sent a couple out and they're like, "This is pretty good. It wasn't AI written or I was and to this day I still personally write them personally twice a week and lay them out. It's not a a team." Uh, and I I enjoy the process. It keeps me up to date on everything. Uh, and uh, people were like, "h, why are you doing email?" And my my wife at the time was like, "That's stupid." Uh, everybody's on social media. And it took a while. I mean, the the problem is it's work, you know, and when I first was doing it, it was like four or five hours to write each one, and I was a a curator. I I I I call it like being a DJ. You're like a DJ, and the way you mix the music and the way you mix it, uh, is is how people perceive it. And it took a while. And consistency, I never missed a Monday or Thursday. I still haven't in two years. Always. Uh, and a lot of people will start and you know my trainer uh started one after me, a couple other people I know and they flake out just like on podcast you know most podcasts don't make it like oh this is work but it took about a year to build this up and then it really started taking off to where now literally yesterday that's not a exaggeration $70,000 worth of dedicated emails sold to six different people. It wasn't like one guy just came in and bought a bunch uh because they work uh and I keep the list very clean. So, when you're teaching people, I know you have your course and what you have these things called micro newsletters and you're using some AI. Can you can you walk us through the process of someone that's listening? Yeah. Okay. This sounds cool. I've got a list or maybe I don't or both ways. I have a list or I don't have a list. If they want to get into establishing a newsletter either for their brand or for their category of what they sell in, what what are some of the steps that that they should take? Because I think a lot of people don't quite understand or when they hear newsletter, they think marketing email or promotional email. And you have all these companies in our space in Amazon where Norm and I are heavily involved. Everybody's got a newsletter, but they're not newsletters, just marketing email. It's like here here's our latest release and here's our newest thing and Johnny just got promoted. Um, so can you explain what is a newsletter and what your approach and like the micro newsletters and the way you you are enabling people with a list and without a list? Yeah, I think it's important to How Newsletters Build Real Community understand the difference between the two, right? You you are correct. A lot of people when they send email, it's all promo based, right? So, when I first got into sending emails, it literally was, you know, that one guy told me, he's like, you know, as you grow your list, a couple things are going to happen. They're going to buy, they're going to unsubscribe, or they're going to die. And uh I was like, he's like, so just keep mailing. And it was always promo based. It was all sales driven. And a lot of that is done the same way now, right? It's still some people have not evolved through that process. For me, I think you mentioned earlier Nor about community, right? I think a newsletter is a great way to build your audience and your community of people that understand you, that follow you, that look up to you, that look to you for guidance, right? If you're an expert. And a newsletter, the way that I like to do it is more, it doesn't have to be a daily thing as you even mentioned, Kevin, you do Monday, Thursday, right? So it doesn't have to be daily, but it it should be consistent and it should be valued driven. So a micro newsletter to me is a way for somebody to showcase their expertise and put information in front of somebody that is valuedriven as opposed to by. So, as long as you Now, don't get me wrong, there's always definitely a time to sell and there's opportunity to sell, but if you're giving somebody the ability to learn or teach or educate them, like you're educating them on whatever it is you're you're great at, right? And if you're putting that in front of them, you instantly are kind not instantly, but over time, you're developing this rapport. you're developing this, you know, leadership with them by doing that to where now when you make recommendations or you do a sponsorship or you do a dedicated email, you're going to get higher performance. And so the micro newsletter to me is a the ability to take your knowledge and expertise, package it into a weekly email, send it out, high value driven content. Now, this is even great for people with podcast because they can leverage AI to take that podcast episode, have a highv value email written by AI and pushed out to their subscribers, right? So, there's a lot of different ways to make it much easier now. So, that's one way of doing it, right? That is one way that I think the market is evolving to. I think the large email list, news driven stuff, sponsorship only driven stuff on faceless brands is definitely an opportunity, but it's but it's changing a little bit. So to look at the other avenue of it, I own a my media company owns a bunch of different brands. I'm not attached to any of them. They're faceless newsletters really. there are these brands that we mail and we mail updated, curated content to and those do well and we have sponsors and affiliates and all that stuff that run inside of that. But I see that market shifting very dramatically to where it's moving into where people want to be around experts or they want to follow somebody Newsletter Content: Value vs. Pitch who's giving highle content, not just quick tips and news that of what's going on in that day. So I do think the evolution of people wanting more community, people want to be a part of a brand. Now you don't get me wrong, you can still have a brand, right? So Kevin, you probably your newsletter probably has a name to it, right? Yeah. Kevin, it's billion dollar sellers. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So it's billion dollar sellers. So people are tuning in. You just happen to be the editor, right? And so people do know you and start following you. So you know, for me, I think it's that's really how we're doing it. We're taking that expert content. We're building a a niche newsletter around that content and delivering that value to those subscribers. And then that's obviously building leadership. It's helping you own your audience and even control and become a well a thought leader really kind of in that domain and whatever that niche is that you're you you are in, right? Are you looking to quickly boost new Amazon product launches or scale up existing listings to reach first page positioning? The influencer platform Stack Influence can help. That's right. Stack Influence pushes high volume external traffic sales straight to Amazon listings using micro influencers that you only have to pay with your products. They've helped upandcoming brands like Magic Spoon compete with Cheerios for top category positioning while also helping Fortune 500 brands like Unilver launch their new products. Right now is one of the best times to get started with Stack Influence. You can sign up at stackinfluence.com or click the link in this video down in the description notes below and mention Misfits. That's m i sf ts to get 10% off your first campaign. stackinfluence.com. Norm and I are both I mean we've been in the Amazon that's where we come from the Amazon world. Uh we both have podcasts that spoke each individually that focus in that world. We've both done a lot of training in in that world. And I I've had a course the freedom ticket how to sell on Amazon. 220,000 people have gone through it. We've both spoken on tons of stages, attended lots of conferences and I think I can I can know I can speak for me and I think I can and speak somewhat for Norm too is the newsletter has been the most powerful authority building thing that we've done. Um it takes a little time but people start to look forward to it because like you said you are providing real value in there. It's Micro Newsletters vs Media Titans not just marketing and yeah there's an ad or two here there an affiliate link or or whatever but they're getting value. And I've had people tell me that they they print mine out and clip it and put it in a in a binder uh and organize it, you know, and it gets forwarded on to other people or um and because there's actionable tactical stuff in there. It's not just it's not just fluff, but how but creating the content is can be a challenge for some. I come from a media background. I was editor of my high school paper 17,000 years ago when I was young. Um, and so I have some and I I published a magazine for a while and Norm is the same. Um, so we have a little bit of background there, but the average person, they may not be a good writer or they may not be a good curator of content or a good sourcer of what's content. Like you said, if it's easy to do like have AI pull everything about sewing and have a newsletter go out about for people that love to sew, but if there's not an authority figure or someone that's curating that, it it's hard to make that last. So how what's your how do you approach that? Do you have with all these newsletters, do you have a human that's like editing it and like guiding it or is it a lot of AIdriven stuff or what's your approach on on that? So so we started developing out content intelligent agents and uh some so the CIA, right? But uh we started developing AI, Automations & Tool Hacks these these out where we're able to take your voice, your brand, the things you talk about, the the language you use and develop and I for myself I've created that right the content intelligent agent where I can now plug in new topics, new content and stuff that I like and it'll create my version of that of what it's taking your past writings or talks or whatever and that creating a past writings products uh videos, trainings, all that stuff, right? And I plug it in to create this this uh content intelligent agent. And then from there, I now have the ability to take a couple core like, hey, I'm going to create around this topic today. And I'll plug it in, it'll create and write for me. And then I look at that and obviously lot when you know, it does about 90 95% of the work for me. I still have to come in and edit, but it's gotten really good and train I've trained it really well to actually write and speak like me. So, and it saves me countless countless hours. It took me a long time to kind of define the process and build the frameworks around getting it right and making sure that the the agent is actually writing properly and formatting and all that good stuff, right? take take takes quite a bit time to set it up, but in the long term it's saving me countless hours. I don't know how many times you guys have done this, but I've gotten in front of a computer where I've had to write and I start typing away and it's just blank for a while, right? Like it takes me a while to get into mode to think of ideas. So AI has made things so much easier than back in 2007 when I was sending an email every day, you know, when I'd have to figure out what am I writing about today? 2000. Yeah. 2022. Yeah. Yeah. Even then, what's the difference between you talk about a micro newsletter and a regular newsletter? What's the difference? So, I've got what I would call like a a media brand, right? So, for example, we've got one called uh it's called News Flash, and it's just curated content of what's going on around the the US, right? So it's curated content, it's it's articles, it's more news driven. So we have a lot of that stuff and a newsletter in that aspect, right? So no no one knows well I guess people know I own it now but uh at the point like my name's not attached to it and that to me is a media type newsletter, right? It's a similar to like you know you're going to get newsletters from there's a brand out there called Join 1440, right? That's general news, right, without the spin. And it's a very large brand. Yeah. So, they are they they grew that and it's all just news-driven. It's curated content. Morning Brew, The Hustle, like all those kind of brands are are newsletters to me, but they're curated content from around the web. And it's a a brand in itself, right? And they're in a specific niche. For me, the micro newsletter is more of a if you're a let's say I want to say an expert in a in something, a coach, a consultant or service provider, right? This is an opportunity for you to though an opportunity for you to create a newsletter and a brand around your content and mail. You don't even have to mail every day. It could be once a week of just a good highle content piece that goes out. And then the second email in the week could also, you know, be more of about what you're doing in service-wise, right? So, you still promote inside of a micro newsletter. And whereas you're going to sell your own products and services for the most part with a micro newsletter, as a other side of it, the media type newsletter is going to sell sponsorships, dedicated uh to different types of brands as well. Now, you can still send dedicated into your micro newsletter if you want to, but for me, the way that I run it, I tend to spend more time on it selling my own products and services or my, you know, other people's product, my client's products and services, right? A lot of people say that now there's been a big over the last couple years because, you know, the morning brew sold for millions of dollars. You had the hustle. Uh, you had, you know, Sam the my first million podcast. Both those guys had newsletters. you know, the crypto newsletter that uh they had that sold for like 10 million bucks and you see these others. What was that one that sold for like 625 million? Um you get all these Yeah. industry dive. Um you see all these big things and that's attracted. Then you have tools like Beehive and Convert Kit that have come in that make it much simpler and they're geared towards newsletters versus just a standard Mailchimp or something that has some of the features but it's not really dialed into to newsletters. And so there's been a big fad like a get-richqu kind of thing with a lot of people like hey everybody should start a newsletter but a lot of people they don't realize even with AI and I remember Perry Belchure a couple years ago did a big thing and his AI bot is like hey newsletters are the next hot thing look at all these numbers and with AI I'm running 19 newsletters a day and I'm not touching a thing I got one VA in the Philippines that checks it and hits a button and we're spitting these out uh to my list and I was like that's just not going to last. Um, it it'll work for a little while, but there's no way that's going to stick. And I I proved to be right and he's moved away from that. Um, so back to so back to your curation, like with yours, you have the the agent that has your tone. and it can write your tone, which that's really cool. But then what is do you have another agent that's going out and sourcing the content or is it sometimes you just have a topic like hey I think we should talk about this and you just plug that in and maybe you write a little bit and then AI fills in the gaps or how are you how are you come coming up with the topics especially across multiple newsletters and keeping that fresh and current and not stale. So on the for if I we're talking about a micro Curation, Voice, & Consistency newsletter, I'm for me, I'm sourcing my topics, right? Okay. I'm I'm seeing stuff when I So I talked about this uh when we first met is like I don't when I use social or if I'm on YouTube, I'm there to to find creative ideas, not consume. Right? Like a lot of times it's like people just watching and flipping and scrolling and scrolling, right? I'm looking at I look at social as a way for to get creative ideas and stuff that makes sense. I'm a firm believer that at this point in time, most content has already been created and recreated with someone else's take on it at least 17 times probably. You know, there's a lot of content out there and a lot of opinions. So, a lot of times what I'll do is if I see a content piece I like, I'll take that content piece, I'll put my twist on it, put my thoughts on it, and then recreate how I want to put it out, right? My AI agent will put it out in my voice and how I want it to be and how my views are on it, right? So, that's one way. And then there's sometimes too where I'll I'll be, you know, I I try to walk every day because when I walk I think and I get ideas and everything else and I have this little whisper app uh on my phone and when it pops up I'll just talk into it. So I'll record a threem minute blur while I'm walking and then I'll plug that into my AI agent and that will pump out the content piece for me. So that's how I'm doing my micro newsletter. My if if you're moving over and you wanted to be more of like a media brand, right? like we talked about and hopefully not confusing our our listeners, but the the media brand itself, like I actually have created a tool that writes content on a daily. It sources content daily. If the top headlines and top news articles are going on, it rewrites that content and posts to our site. So, we've leveraged that to automate that process. And it is so that's one way, but I I agree with you. It's my team is still involved in before the publishing goes out before it gets sent you know there's it's there's that whole process is not perfect right and so there's still a team involved in there going that route I I do agree that the AI press send type thing is you know you don't even have to look at it you know I'm not a I agree with you like that that has gone away and I think people want and that our people want good quality content. They don't want um they don't want this fast AI push button stuff that goes out. They're not looking for that. So, going back to your agents, do you have an agent you just click one button or do you have multiple agents? One going for sourcing or researching the content, one coming back writing, one being a senior editor and then putting it all together. So, right now I have the content. it gets pushed into content and then it gets published as a draft to our sites. What we're trying and then I have one that pulls the content. What I'm actually doing is now trying to put that into one tool. So my developer is putting that into one right now and it's so once we have that done it'll it'll literally be every morning my team will wake up. They'll have ideally the drafts already in our site for them to publish. Right. Nice. And so how many newsletters I saw somewhere, maybe you mentioned it somewhere, you're sending millions of emails a day. Um so um how many newsletters is that? Content Ideas: From Social Surfing to Walking Wisely Is that one a couple really big ones and a lot of micro ones are a little bit more niche down or is that uh is that hundreds of newsletters or 20 different ones? Yeah, so it's it's uh right now it's 12 different brands that we have. Okay. These are all yours or you some of these are client? No, those ones are all mine. I'm not like all the micro newsletters I have partnerships in. We I have six of those. Okay. And the me so the media side where we're sending like general news stuff. I've got 12 of those. And at one point in time we we had 30 running. So we've consolidated simplified and just took our best performers and we and we keep and we kept those. And as the micro newsletter stuff, that's a little bit different. We I've got my I have two that I personally run that I own. One's a brand new one that I just started actually trying to um really solidify the authority in a very specific niche. We may or may not be talking about that stuff right now, but uh and then I have a you know, my uncommented, you know, my other one that I've always run that's that goes out once a week too. So, it's a and then I have partnerships and four others where I I've helped other people launch theirs and then we've come in and we've partnered on their their their idea because I think it's really big. I think the two people leading the the charge in the space of newsletters mostly is Matt McGary and you um I would say the two bigger ones that um are are getting some traction, it's more the authority figures on what works and what doesn't work when it comes to newsletters. Yeah, Matt's done some really cool stuff. like he's taken it to events and he kind of works in that creator crowd, right? It seems like he works on the creator side and he's done some really really cool stuff. But uh you know and he he he's got that going on. And I think you know we kind of tackled it in a different aspect. And I think my my experience comes from a whole different world of building out those media properties and doing mass lead generation for what we were doing and going from zero to three million subscribers in my own brand and my own company, right? And then now taking what all those resources and things that we learned building our own stuff and helping other people do that themselves. But uh yeah, I think it's you know, thank you. I guess that's appreciate that. Uh I'm trying trying to you know, just give value and and help as many people as I can in the space because there's huge opportunity. And you know, for me, one of the biggest things that why I got into that uh back into the email is because it became more of a I wanted to focus more on lifestyle, right? A lot of times we build a business and then all of a sudden the business starts consuming us and I wanted to flip that. So in 2020 my goal is to flip that and actually make and that started happening in my agency. I was running my agency. was controlling my time. And when I created the newsletter business that I have now, it became more where all right, you know, I I I can control my time and my business is now my business is now built around my life instead of my life designed around my business, right? That was a new notice for me. You know, back in the day, well, still today, um, I'm involved with press releases. And I go out and I talk to people about press releases and they only have one thing in mind, a product launch. And I'm sitting there going, there's tons of different things, different types of content for press releases. I even wrote a a PDF. Here's 108 different things. Well, even with your newsletter, is there things is there different type of content? Like with uh social media, you you don't just do quotes, you have to mix it up. Can you give us some examples of different things that you can put into your uh newsletter, not just the basic article? Well, it's more than a basic article. It's a thought leadership uh you know, piece. But uh yeah, it's uh it is. So for me, I like to mix things in too. So I have I've got kind of a section I call daily dose, which is like a quick thought. I've got a thing I've been testing where I'm actually highlighting other newsletters, right? So newsletter highlight where we're talking about what other people are doing good. Uh my the first like personal brand newsletter that I launched re like the first one I Ad Read: Stack Influence Secret Sauce did a couple years back was a you know we we talked about a lot of different things. So, I had three sections when I first started that. It was like a marketing section, marketing review, uh, thought, you know, a marketing tactic, and then a so almost like reviewing a product or an ad, then having a tactic, and then having a what I still like to call the daily dose, which is which comes down is uh my buddy used to always say this, when you get in a conversation with me, but thank you so much for my daily dose. who gives a and uh so so it's always stuck with me so I I I put that in my uh in my newsletter. So I do have different sections and you'll see a lot of people will do like one of our things we have is a a fact like an American fact for the day right like something that happened that day inside. So there are some stuff and things that you can do. We also some other components you can put into your newsletter are a pro you can create a a giveaway and then in that giveaway when people refer somebody into your newsletter it automatically gives them that gift right or whatever that you know magnet lead magnet is we like to put surveys inside of our newsletters right and see if what people are thinking. So that's another thing that we like putting in there. So there's stuff you can put in there to break it up as well for sure. What's up everybody? Your good old buddies Norm and Kevin here and I've got an Amazon creative team that I want to introduce you to. That's right Kevin. It's called the House of Amz and it's the leading provider in combining marketing and branding with laser focus on Amazon. Hey Norm, they do a lot of really cool stuff if you haven't seen what they do like full listing graphics, premium A+ content, storefront design, branding, photography, renderings, packaging design, and a whole lot of other stuff that Amazon sellers need. Yeah. And guess what? They have 9 years active in this space. So, you can skip the guesswork, trust the experts, there's no fees, there's no retainers, you pay per project. So, if you want to take your product to the next level, check out House of AMZ. That's houseofamz.com. House of AMZ. Yeah. I think a lot of people think it the newsletter just has to be written words, but you look at Charter, Charter is almost all charts, graphical stuff. You look at Smart uh what's it called? smarty pants or something like that and they take cartoons and they they have these characters and they they explain something like why does what does iodine do or why why do hippos have pimples on their butt or whatever and they'll break it down all these cartoon things and you just follow it all the way down or you have uh ones that are like uh Sean Pur I think it does the the five best tweets of the week and he just takes content of the five most and so there's all kinds Case Studies & Authority: Real Results of things you can do for a newsletter but some of these some What what is your take on should a newsletter be a quick one two minute read? Sometimes you'll see people that this newsletter can be read in 1 minute and 23 seconds. What is your take on what what's the optimal length because people are getting hundreds of emails a day and hopefully they're opening yours and some of the your diehard fans are going to read every single word. They're going to save it till the weekend and catch up on it or whatever. I see that happen when my open rates go up on the weekends from past, you know, earlier in the week. Um, other ones are going to just skim it. So, what's an ideal length and how and h how does formatting and a look because I I always say people eat with their eyes first that you know the look of it is it need to be skimable and does it be easily digestible and a lot of people don't have good design when it comes to newsletters are good. So, what are your thoughts on those two? The length and the design aspects of a newsletter. Yeah. So, you definitely have we handle it a couple different ways depending on what we're doing. But I think for me, I I still use the direct response style when I write when I put my newsletter together, right? I it's it's not long paragraphs. It's, you know, you might have a you're going to have some headlines throughout there. You're going to have a really, you know, one to two maybe three sentences if one of them short max in regards into a paragraph. So, I'm kind of following that because they are skimming. So, I want them to be able to get that point across, right? If they're not going to read the whole thing. So, on a high level content piece, I'm doing it that way. So, you can also definitely have something unique and it comes down to what your market wants. And and I I'm a I'm a firm believer that should it should look good. There's times that people send newsletters and it looks just to me it's terrible. It's it's it's horrible. I find unreadable. It's just a mess of mess. It's like who's going to read this? So for me, I like to use sections. So if I have if if I have one that has sections in it, I want it to be clearly known that each section is there, right? Yeah. So I'll use, you know, in design wise, I mean, simple things, I'll use borders. I'll use uh you know some spacing elements and things along those lines that make it stand out and people know all right here's my section. I'll use headlines to call that section out potentially, you know? So, I don't get too crazy in regards to, you know, design like you're going to see in an ecom newsletter, right? Because at the end of the day, it's content drier newsletter is content driven. So, I want them to either read or read, click, and read again, right? So, you know, I just try and make sure it's it's readable, the sections are broken up and look good, it's formatted properly, you don't got five spaces in between two sentences, you know, and and I'm not and I and I hate to have it. I try to remove any long dash, you know, the the chat GPT long, whatever that Sectioned Success: Format, Design & Skimmability thing's called, right? Soon as you see it, you're like, "Yeah, soon as you see it, you're like, "Yeah, I build that into my prompts. Yeah. One of the other things uh especially if you've never you've never had a a newsletter, you want to get into it, you might have a small list. How do you organically what are your recommendations on just building an audience, building a subscriber base? Are there any tips that you can give us? Yeah. Number one is if you have a social following or you're building out and posting on social and don't have anyone on your newsletter list, I would make your number one and only call to action on your social profiles to subscribe to your newsletter, right? And very simple to to do that. And also you can get into depending on where your where are your people hanging out too. So, I I was posting a ton of Instagram stuff a while back and videos and we didn't get a whole lot of traction on it, but my audience at the same time wasn't really hanging out there, right? And so, my audience is more on Twitter and LinkedIn. Twitter's got a little tougher uh I think to to scale quickly on the organic side. LinkedIn, if you're in a professional space, I think there's opportunity over there for sure. And you know, if it's B2B or you're looking for professional stuff, right? You know, it depends who your consumer is or your or who your subscriber is. And I really I I mean, nothing beats paid ads, right? You don't have to spend thousands of dollars a day when you have a newsletter. If you want to start growing your audience, you can literally spend 10, 20, 30, $40 a day and get some subscribers coming in regularly. So, like if somebody's new to it and if you have a small list now, great. That's awesome. Communicate with them. You know, like a lot of people go, "Oh, my list isn't that big. I don't want to send an email, you know, like it's not that big. No one's going to listen." But you, you know, there's people and you know, you mentioned Jordan in the very beginning of this, right? Like Jordan's got a process. You could have hundred subscribers and learn how to generate revenue from that. So, it doesn't take a lot of subscribers. It takes the right subscribers. And that's what I like about the micro newsletter, too, is it's more filtered towards getting the right subscribers as opposed to the most subscribers. Yeah, I think a lot of people look at that as a vanity metric. How many subscribers do you have and how what's your open rate? And neither of those really m I mean, they're they're both important metrics, but they're not the most important uh at at all because it's exactly what you said. I'd rather have 8,000 subscribers that are opening and clicking and and buying than 80,000 subscribers and I'm constantly fighting the ESPs to get get them out of spam. Hey, remember when we went to the podcast show and we were sitting there and somebody NPR was up there and they were talking about some huge membership program they had and then there was that lady sitting beside and she had under a thousand followers and she was making $18,000 a month from those 800 uh subscribers or followers. Yeah. So you don't have to have a ton of subscri It's always kind of nice. I don't mind. So, so what what what are you doing? Like you're sending millions a day. I mean, one thing is you own the distribution. So, you own you can you can hit that send button almost anytime you want to talk to them. But that doesn't mean they're actually going to see it. Because in today's world, that was true 20 years ago when I did my original newsletter way back when, uh, everybody pretty much got it. Open rates were probably like 95%. Um, but now with e the ESPs are making decisions and gate gate, they're the gatekeepers of whether someone's going to go into junk or spam or just completely blocked period. And so a lot of people I think don't understand how to clean their list uh and how to actually really stay on top of it. So what are your techniques for keeping those millions that you're seeing a day landing in the right spot? What what are you doing uh from a a DKM point of view and from a ESP and uh deleting people that don't open or click and stuff? What what are what are your tactics on on that to keep clean? Email list health, man. The most boring topic in the world, but the most important topic if you're in email, right? So, yeah, I mean, you obviously want to follow all the DKM protocols. You can literally Google and it'll give you the process to do it, right? Jad CPTt, whatever you want to use and but yeah, so we you definitely have to set your all those pieces out properly on the front end and those they're identifiers basically right so DKIM and all that it's and your SPF records is they're all identifying real and not being you know being you know trying to steal someone else's email and get into the inbox right so that's what these big ISPs are looking for do you have that information is it set up properly so you definitely want to do that and the next thing is if people aren't paying attention, we just don't mail them anymore. So, we will we will change our segmenting, right? So, we've got our different segmenting kind of protocols that we follow. So, the biggest one that we've used over the years is called is our sunset policy. So we would only mail to people that had clicked an email in 90 days, opened an email in 60 days or had been newly added in 30 days. So we had the what we call our 90 6030 sunset. So that is one way as well is you can figure out like all right if people aren't paying attention there's no sense in mailing to them because it's only negatively impacting your deliverability and List Hygiene Systems: The 90/60/30 Policy so you you can just remove them out. Now people stress about that right like how I've spent money to get these people. there's a process, right? So, not everyone that you mail is actually gonna not everyone that subscribes will always open. And so those people that never open and they they subscribe but never open like it's you might as well just not mail them and and go forward. So, we leverage a sunset policy. Now, I've also am looking at a little bit deeper though, right? So, a lot of times people look at my open rate, my click rate. I like to look and go the major ISPs are we inboxing and at what percentage and what's our open rates. So if I have a 100,000 subscribers and 50,000 are Gmail which tends to be the bulk of a lot of email in my inboxing and by that I can say all right well maybe only 90 you know of those 50,000 maybe I only got a 50% delivery rate. Okay, well, I got an issue I got to solve, right? They're blocking that email. Could be for a couple different reasons. Or let's say Yahoo recently kind of changed their deliverability uh parameters, which you probably you guys both probably experienced, right? Seeing some issues getting into the Yahoo inbounds. Yep. So, it's it's paying attention on not only just the opens and clicks, but it's also paying attention at the ISP level and understanding are you inboxing there and at what percentage and what opens are you getting. So, if you're sending 10,000 emails to Yahoo and you're getting zero opens, you're clearly not getting the inbox. So, you can spot that and then you can start solving for it, right? Yeah. I think it's AOL, Hotmail, Yahoo, and Gmail that are the four biggest that account for about 70 80% of all email in the world. So, those are the ones in Yeah, those are the ones you you got to really pay attention to. Um, but yeah. Um, yeah, that's that's a challenge for a lot of people because they don't understand that or uh like you said, they're or Norm said, they're afraid to take them off. Um, and what I do is I keep my email, my newsletter list, it's on Beehive and that's all I do is send the newsletter on Monday and Thursday and all my marketing stuff is on Aweber and Clavio. Uh, and so those are on completely separate domains, completely separate ISPs and everything so that one doesn't affect the other. Um, so that and if if I sunset somebody off of my newsletter, I give them a longer runway on the marketing side. So, I will continue to keep, you know, like you said, if it's a 90-day thing, I might keep them 180 days on on the market marketing one and before I take them off, uh because that might be negatively affecting me a little bit, but I'm willing to take a chance over there versus ruin the open the deliverability of the the of the the crown jewel. Uh basically. Yep. Yeah. And she can you can maneuver and kind of create different segments based on who you're battling to, right? Yeah. Can that can that affect by Kevin doing your strategy where you're protecting the beehive and you're sending out these other ones uh these marketing emails on Clavio let's say and all of a sudden the person's I've had enough. There's too many marketing emails coming on. Unsubscribe. And then Monday comes along, Thursday comes along, and the person sees, oh, here's the, you know, billion-dollar seller newsletter. I unsubscribe to, you know, that prick. Boom. I I'll do it again. And now I'm going to report them for spam. Could that like I'm just thinking out loud. No, that's a valid there. That probably does happen from time to time, but it's a chance that it it's working for me. So, it's a chance I'm willing to take, but I'm sure there is an occasion that that that that does happen. Or there's also people that that legitimately want the content, but don't want the marketing. And so, they're like, I'm happy with the content. I'll take some ads in there, but I I don't want all these Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday emails that you're sending out on behalf of other people. And so, there's a lot of that, too. Um, and so, and it it's it's working. Um, how are you setting your your So, so like you said with the micro, that's mostly the people are monetizing because they have their own product. They have their own book or their own course or their own agency or something that they're selling. On on the on the mass ones, are you doing a CPM model? Are you doing a flat fee? Are you doing a per open or per click? What how do you how do you monetize on those? So, that's evolved over the last five years, too. So we started where it was CPM based. So we were charging for every thousand emails we sent, right? And at the end of the day, they still needed performance because even on a CPM basis, if they don't get performance, they don't buy again. Yeah. So we've kind of evolved now. We say, "All right, well, we've got an I we know what we can send for, right? We know what it cost us to send and so we know we'll charge but at the same time we also ask and and we define with our client what their goals are. So what are your performance goals? So back in the day it used to be someone would come in and go, "Hey, I'm going to buy these these five lists from you twice a month. So I want 10 drops. It's, you know, I want to pay $1,500 for each one." And then we, you know, so they buy, they pay $3,000 per list for two different emails that to that list, right? Go out, you have five for what, 15, right? So then you have some that'll come in and they'll want to buy more than that, right? So like it's all just that's how it used to run, but then they'd come back and say, "Hey, I need a make good." Right? Like it didn't perform. Can you send another email for me? And along that way, I kind of got frustrated. I was like, you know, you can't go to the grocery store and return half a loaf of bread. You can't go to Facebook and ask them for your money back because your offer didn't convert, right? And so me being a direct response marketer, I started getting kind of like, all right, this is frustrating me a little bit. So I started moving towards something different. It's like, all right, tell me what performance you need. Let's just set a budget and let us mail when we want to mail. And so we now have a budget for the month and we just mail for our clients based on what budget we hit. And then if we hit it quicker, they reup. If it takes a little bit longer, they reup again as well. But usually our goal is to hit it within 30 days, their budget. But we want to be able to maneuver and control when our dedicated are going out, when our sponsorships are going out, as opposed to being locked into a day specifically with them. So this actually has made things much much easier for us and our advertisers. So it's kind of a mix it's kind of a combo Monetization Models: From CPM to High Ticket model now on the CPM side, right? And so we also at the same time do a lot of CPA stuff as well where we have clients where we know all right we've been working with them long enough to where we're just basically moving towards a CPA model where they'll just pay us for every every lead or every customer. Is there a time of day that you found to be the best to send to email? A time of day or a What's a good day of the week and a bad day of the week to send? Every day is a good day. I love that. Just send it. Just just hit send. Uh what about time? What about time of day? Time of day. So, you know, we send morning, afternoon, and evening. So we find that we've got openers multiple different times in the day. Keep in mind that's two different worlds, right? Like so let's talk business one over here which is mass media. We're sending three times a day. Over here on the micro newsletter we're sending once a week to twice a week. Yeah. And you know one time per day but they have two separate goals. Right. So our large email list that we had that we're sending millions of emails a day in that's our CPM performance model that we have all that going on. Our micro side is more of more thought leadership and the goal is to drive it's it's the new way to drive high ticket sales. It's a new way to drive product sales. It's it's it's the new way to drive and increase revenue without having to it's an easier way of growing a list and driving more applications and more sales as opposed to having to do the low ticket ascension all the way through. So are you driving new subscribers through ads or through referrals or through stuff like instantly or like intention based uh stuff or how are you growing that my on brand based you know the the micro newsletter model we are drive we're running ads to those right so we're driving subscribers to that we survey those subscribers when they come in and then we have an a thank you page offer for them as well so we got a whole little newsletter funnel that we've designed and built And so we have that in place and then from there we follow we have some follow-up campaigns that all get triggered and happen where they subscribe and then so yes we are doing that and one thing I'm getting ready to test that's the one thing with me you know I I'm in it uh this isn't really you know I don't really like talking theory and stuff so like I'm in the trenches every day I'm building my own stuff along with our client stuff right so one thing I'm testing and I'm really curious to see how these leads perform versus just the optins. But I'm put I I do have a bookfunnel that I run. And I'm going to make a bonus of joining that book, the newsletter. H and and so I want to see how those book buyers specifically perform on opens and clicks and high ticket sales on the back end from coming from that newsletter. So, I think you can also get paid if you have the right offer to grow your newsletter, right? Hey, what's up everybody? Kevin and Norm here with a quick word from one of our sponsors, 8 fig. Let me tell you about a platform that's changing the game for Amazon sellers. That's right, it's called 8Fig. On average, sellers working with 8ig grow up to 400% in less than a year. 8FIG offers both funding and free tools for e-commerce growth and cash flow management. And here's how it works. 8ig provides flexible data-driven funding tailored to your exact needs. You know, they can fund anywhere from up to $50,000 all the way up to 10 million. 8FIG gives you free tools to forecast demand, manage inventory, and analyze cash flow. Visit 8fig.co. That's 8fig.co co to learn more or check the link in the show notes below. Just mention marketing misfits and get 25% off your cost. That's 8fig.co. 8fig.co. See you on the other side. I met some guy at the conference we were at that that I don't know if you work with them or not. Those guys out of Chicago that do the high ticket sales. Um, and I did a little test. They said, "Hey, we could uh off your newsletter on your landing page. What are you doing right now?" I said, "I'm just saying thanks for subscribing, a little video of me thanking them and stuff that." Oh, man. That's a perfect place to be selling. You should have an upsell there or an offer. And I was like, "Yeah, I know. Let's try something out." So, they're like, "All right, just put let's give you some code and we put book a call uh and we'll just figure out if anybody's interested." And so we we did that for about 3 weeks and rather than selling them, they're just call people would call and they would just say, "Hey, what are you interested in? Oh, you learn want to know how to sell on Amazon?" Okay, just kind of getting a gauge if if there's a market. And they came back to me and said there's there's they think there's a market there uh where they could sell some 510 $15,000 coaching uh to to these people. And they Community Building: WhatsApp, Slack, & The 3-Referral Rule would go source the coaches and and do all this stuff. and I decided to not do it because I'm like that's my reputation. People are signing up for a newsletter that has like you said it's a micro newsletter by your definition and it's my name and what if someone pays 15 grand these guys go out and have someone do some coaching and it's not very good and then people start badmouthing oh that Kevin King newsletter like it's you know it's a scam or it's a this or that. So I I decided to not do it. I'm I'm probably leaving some money on the table. Um but that's okay. Um, so what what do you find that on landing pages they're the softer like, oh, upgrade to the book and for $9.95 or 1995 or the high-end coaching is best on landing pages or and welcome emails or thank you emails? What what are you finding that works or is it So, it varies. It varies on the person and in and the in the actual niche but right like for example we have a AI partner and we've got a book we just launched uh we do have a book on the thank you page and a book in the followup teaching the whole thing is about teaching uh parents how to how parents can keep their kids informed on AI right so I think the stat I just saw was something insane like 50% of the entrylevel white collar jobs will be gone on in like three years, right? And so that's a lot of kids right now. Well, you're having to have right now with kids coming out of college with a computer science and programming degree is having a hard time getting jobs right now. So, and it's only going to get worse, right? So, they're going to come out with even more debt because I don't see tuition dropping and they're going to come out with more debt and they're going to have less opportunity. So, it's it's very interesting that um so anyways, if that whole thing is built around helping these parents help their kids navigate that process, right? And we've got a book and we just started testing it. It's the price point I think we went with a little too high. So, we're going to try and test a lower price point on that. But, this is a physical book in the mail or a PD or a PDF or Kindle type of thing. It's a PDF book. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, it's 30 conversations to have with your kids about AI is the book. So, it is a lot of good feedback on the book. We just got to get people to actually pull out the card and pay for it now. But, uh, it is so we have that and then, you know, we're testing that, but we don't really have a high ticket offer over there. So there's other stuff where there's a high, you know, that that I run that I have a high ticket offer on and and that does well too, right? So just depends on what what the person has to offer. Are you doing any community building off the back of any of these newsletters? Like one of the things um um Norm and I both have WhatsApp channels for our personal newsletters in the Amazon space. Um we don't have actually we don't have one for marketing misfits. I just realized that Norm we we haven't that's your department Kev. We don't but uh how does that work for you? How does that go? Both of them are very active. Norm lets uh I think he's it's you just got to kind of sign up uh to to get into his and and they kick you have to answer some questions. Yeah, you answer some questions and they kick out the spammers. For me to get into mine, I have two. One is for people that have been to my high ticket events. I have a $5,000 plus event I call the billiond dollarar seller summit that I do. So just by attending that you get in that one's very active. Uh then I have one for the newsletter that you have to refer five uh five three people. You have to refer at least three people and then you get you can request access and then I approve you. So you have to actually refer. And that one is not quite as active but it's doing okay. But I'm about to start something on mine called the billiond dollar seller club which is going to be $99 a month. And it's going to include all the p a library of all the past issues, all my past podcast and content like this my own little custom LLM with a massive amount of data that they can query and ask me and experts and stuff and then some monthly training and u a mastermind call with me and bunch of other uh bells and whistles in there and I think that's going to do very well. Um, and then Norm and I are going to do it for Marketing Misfits as well. And then just like you said at the beginning, we're not doing it now, but it's it's on our road map this summer. It's actually to launch a newsletter off the back of this podcast where we'll take the podcast, have AI exactly what you said, summarize it, create an article, and then we'll append one or two other little sections to that Membership Models & Printable Value that's not in the newsletter to make it a little bit unique. Um, and and send that out, and it'll create this whole flywheel effect. Um, but I think I think that's a massive opportunity that I see with newsletters that you build that authority, you build that you're part of their daily life and then you make them some sort of community offer. Um, that's just irresistible or you can't say no to. And I think you can get a lot of people in there and you know, you just do the math on this. If I can get 500 people out of 30,000 that are active subscribers right now, um, that's not a high number. And when my avid audience is well over a thousand that are actively opening and clicking on and reading almost everything that that's decent that's that's uh you know it's a nice little chunk of change every year. Um uh and it could just continue to grow and so I think that's massive opportunity too for a lot of people. Are you doing anything along those lines? I am not I've been kicking around the idea. I just haven't figured out the best uh delivery mechanism. Right. I I've got a school thing that I push them into if they buy a book that they go into, but it doesn't get very active. And I've also looked at doing uh Slack, like I've done some courses like, you know, uh cohorts where I put them in Slack and communicated there. And I've actually been looking at WhatsApp lately. So, because I do want to add a $99 a month, interesting you say that, $100 a month kind of component to our front-end offer and put people, you know, have give a communication way for people and everything else. But would you do that in WhatsApp as well or you some other No, I'm going to probably do the community part in school. Not in school, sorry, in circle. Um, actually circle probably instead of school. there's just some more additional better features that I like in Circle. Um, but and then I'm doing a monthly training where I'll do a two-hour mastermind call, group call with me because a lot of these people want, you know, they want access to me, they want tech strategies and stuff. And then I'll bring in a a guest speaker once a month to actually deliver like an hour and a half tactical presentation. And I'm motivating those people rather than just coming, hey, come provide content. You know, I'm making all the money. I'm going to pay them uh you know say 2500 bucks to show up and actually give a presentation and then at the end of the presentation people will score them on a zero to se 0 to 10 basis. If they get a seven or below I'm just going to tell them you got a seven and here's your 2500 bucks. Thank you very much. If they got an eight that goes up to like 3500 bucks. If they get a nine goes up to like five grand. If they get a 10 out of 10 it goes up to like 10 grand. So, they're incentivized to provide massive value so that people that are paying this $99 a month, they're like, "Holy, holy cow." Uh, that's worth every little penny because I just got some technique or tactic to make more on Tik Tok shop or make more on Amazon or or whatever. So, I'm doing some things like that and then giving them discounts to my in-person events um and access to this massive database and um the the the community uh private community group where they can help each other that's outside of WhatsApp a little bit more exclusive and some other bells and whistles. Oh, a printed newsletter. I'm actually doing uh taking a Dan Kennedy approach uh and actually I'm going to do a quarterly printed newsletter sent physically through the mail uh you know 11 by7 sheets folded in half and stapled that's like 16 20 24 pages or something and that'll have additional content that's not in my newsletter like uh you know special stuff from some of my events or whatever and they'll get that as well and I think that at one point I thought about just charging separately for that and having that as an upsell um But I I decided to include it in in in this uh $99 thing and we'll see what happens just as a as a value stack. And I think I think that'll do well. And those the print newsletter, you know, it sits on their desk. They may not read it for 3 months, but it sits there on their desk or sits there in their bathroom or wherever they take it. And I think the the legs on that are going to be and it just something you hold in your hand just feels worth more than than an email. Um, so I'm pretty sure I still have some Dan Kennedy inner circle newsletters somewhere laying around in boxes after all my moves. Probably good. Yeah, but you don't have the His emails have long disappeared. But yeah. Yeah. So that there's so much you can do. I mean, we've just barely touched the surface here in in this chat over the last hour. We could keep going for for hours on this. I got a quick question uh for Norm actually. Norm, how's your WhatsApp working? My WhatsApp's working great. Uh we've we had some problems with spammers at the beginning and now we have brought in some extra moderators and we've added um four additional questions. So they have to really prove themselves to get in the group. Then once they're in the group, uh what's nice about it is I'm busy, you know, just like h Kevin's group, but The Authority Multiplier: Print, Events, and Data Libraries people just I don't have to be there for the group to carry on. So I'll wake up in the morning and there might be 10 questions or 10 things going on and I didn't have to get involved which was really nice. So once you have the community uh you know people just take off. That's the difference a lot of people don't understand what's an difference between audience and community. Yeah. An audience is where the creator me you um norm have to be involved or it dies. But community runs without you uh and you you peak in. So that's what you definitely want to always try to build community and WhatsApp is great. You you're capped to I think 100,024 people in a WhatsApp group. I think I think that's the cap. Uh so it can't grow infinitely. You might have to have separate community. So that is one limitation. But um it's nice because it it actually it it gets through to everybody. There's no there's no spam filters or anything unless they unsubscribe or you know they might have that little dot there for a week because they haven't checked it but eventually they're going to check and scroll through. The the downside is it can get unwieldy if you if you go on norm sometime and something was active in there and you you didn't log in over the weekend uh there's a hundred messages and you're like ah I I just going to quickly scroll through or something or you or you stop and read them all. Um that can be sometimes a little daunting. Yeah, we've broken ours. We've created uh separate uh groups as well. So, if somebody just wants to talk about general items, it's a PPC, another item sourcing, another group. So, we've got like I think there's five groups that are going on at any one time. Yeah. And it keeps that keeps that touch, you know, that that relationship uh and it keeps top top of mind. And uh we'll both occasionally promote something in there. Uh you know, a webinar, something that we're doing, an event that we're doing together. Um we we'll promote in there, but we keep it pretty clean and pretty much people helping each other out. Nice. The Power of Commitment: Never Miss a Send Hey, Kevin King and Norm Ferrar here. If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits, thanks for listening this far. Continue listening. We got some more valuable stuff coming up. Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player. Or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify, make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of the Marketing Misfits. Have you subscribed yet, Norm? Well, this is an old guy alert. Should I subscribe to my own podcast? Yeah, but what if you forget to show up one time? It's just me on here. You're not going to know what I say. I'll I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair, too. We'll just You can go back and forth with one another. Yikes. But that being said, don't forget to subscribe, share it. Oh, and if you really like this content, somewhere up there, there's a banner. Click on it, and you'll go to another episode of The Marketing Misfits. Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm. Oh. All right, guys. We are past the top of the hour. So Nate, I told you at the beginning of the uh webinar or webinar podcast, I always ask our guests one question and if they know a misfit, I know a lot of misfits but I'll give you one. So, I would say um you know there's Zack Zach Williams super smart with uh probably he's not really in the scene too much I think on the AE internet marketing world but super smart guy with some AI and you know he just showed me some stuff today that blew me away. He is great marketer Lightning Round: Misfits, Mentors & Recommends owns a large agency and doing some really really cool stuff. So, he's a good one. Um, and obviously another great one would be, and I'll give you two. Is two. Okay. Or Sure. Sure. All right. Another great one, obviously, I always recommend to him is Mark Evans. Uh, he's the one who got me into the marketing world, but Mark Evans DM, great dude. He's doing some really cool stuff. More uh has moved from marketer to business growth. Uh, he's doing a lot of unique things that way. just super big thinker and executor and getting things done. It's uh it's it's pretty cool to you know good friend of mine and been great to see his evolution even from introducing me. I'll never forget when I first got first time I met him he had he was doing a teleol to sell his real estate course via teleol. I remember those tele calls as before me it's like a group chat on a phone like what is this guy doing we just met he's on some call he's selling something you know and I was I owned a a mortgage company at that time so I I would was just learning about the online world so yeah he's another good dude another misfit be great that's awesome all right so if anybody wants to get a hold of you how do they do that yeah nate kennedy.com/ SL newswsletter is uh probably the best Where to Find the Experts best spot to go. Just get on the list and reach out, you know, shoot me an email. And if you want to get to me on social handles, I recommend going to nate kennedy.comnewsletter, but all my social handles are Nate Kennedy MD. So, perfect. All right, sir. Well, thanks for coming on the uh podcast today. This was awesome. All right. I appreciate it, guys. Thank you so much. Thanks, man. Appreciate it, man. Now I'm going to do my job. That's all you got to do is hit a button. Norm I'm doing it. There you did it. There should be like there The Balloons Moment & Outtakes should be like those balloons that go through the screen, right? I was just going to say if you do this, it's probably balloons will go up. No, I got to do thumbs I do do this. Where's the thumbs up? Oh no. So, I mean a newsletters, like we just talked about newsletters, but newsletters are powerful. Um, but the trick is you got to commit. And I think that's the thing where a lot of people like, "Yeah, it sounds good, but you got to commit." Like Nate said, you have to be regular. You and I, I don't think you've missed a Monday lunch with Norm. Um, I haven't missed a Monday or Thursday in 2 years of mine. Uh, even if we're out of town, even we're traveling. You know, sometimes we're somewhere I like, norm, I can't smoke till 3:00 in the morning today. I got to go finish the newsletter. Um, or I do them in advance. Um, or do a best of. Uh, but that's that's the key. Uh, and I but the power, if you haven't gotten anything Podcast & Newsletter Growth from what we just talked about with Nate, the power of these is is immense. And so, don't be don't be afraid to take a look under the hood. And Nate's got a great training course on it if you want to go and uh check check out what he does. Uh um and can kind of walk you through some of the process as well. But you know, that's what we like to do here on the marketing miss is like show people different ways and different angles of marketing. And I think we we pretty we pretty much done been doing that and we're going to continue doing that with a lot of great guests. So, if you like this episode or know someone that might want to do a newsletter, be sure to forward it this episode, a link to it to to them so they can check it out. Hit that subscribe button on uh on YouTube or on uh Apple or Spotify or wherever you're listening to this. And uh leave us a comment down below. Tell say, "Hey, uh Kevin, I agree with Norm. I'm tired of hearing your voice. Will you shut up and let Norm talk?" Yep. Or say, "Hey, I really like the I like the podcast. Uh this this is awesome. Keep it up." Whatever you want to say, we we love we love to hear from you. Like Kevin, does your voice get on your nerves, too? That's a There we go. There you go. That That That's the line. That's the line. But it's MarketingMisfits.co. Uh and we have another uh we have a couple other things coming up. We have the CMS Collectivemind Society trip where we're going to be smoking cigars in Tampa November 6th to the 10th. So, you can go to collectivemindsocciety.com and talk about that. We'll probably have a whole episode uh coming soon where we'll have a couple people that probably be joining us and we'll talk about the whole whole thing and it's it's really really cool. And we have a new uh what what's the the video other video channel we have of some sort YouTube channel and it's doing well. It's just for clips. So we'll take the best of and just make them 3 minutes or under clips. So if you just want to hear you just got a limited amount of time, you don't want to listen to the long form podcast, you can just head over there. that's on uh that's on YouTube and that is Marketing Misfits Clips. And uh soon watch for the Marketing Misfits newsletter. We just spoke about newsletters and we actually have one coming out uh this summer. So look for the announcement of that and uh and uh hopefully subscribe to that. But other than that, Norm, I think uh I think we'll see everybody next time, right? I think we will. All right, everybody. Thanks a lot. Tuesday and we'll see you next Tuesday. Take care. See you. [Music]