How Sending Free Products To Micro-influencers Can Scale Your Ecommerce Brand — William Gasner | Why Micro Influencers Matter, How To Find Influencers, What

How Sending Free Products To Micro-influencers Can Scale Your Ecommerce Brand — William Gasner | Why Micro Influencers Matter, How To Find Influencers, What Compensation Models Work, How To Manage Influencers, How Influencers Boost Speaker 3: This episode is sponsored by Bravo. Speaker 1: Time to take your marketing to the next level. Bravo is the all-in-one marketing platform that helps you connect with customers through email, SMS, WhatsApp, and automation – all from one easy-to-use platform. Keep your customer data organized, personalize every message, and drive real engagement effortlessly. Try Bravo for free or use eCB to save 50% on starter and business plans for the first three months of an annual subscription. Head to bravo.com slash eCB today. You will find a link also in the show notes. Hey there, welcome to the Ecommerce Coffee Break. I'm your host, Claus Lauter, and you're listening to the podcast that helps you become a smarter online seller. In today's episode, we talk about how sending free products to micro influencers can scale your eCommerce brand. Speaker 3: Now, as always, I have a guest with me today. It's William Gasner. He is the co-founder and chief marketing officer of Stack Influence. He's a six-time founder, a seven-figure eCommerce seller, and has been featured in leading publications like Forbes, Business Insider, and Wired for his thoughts on influencers and the eCommerce industry. So he has a vast background when it comes to influencer marketing, and I would like to welcome him to the show. Hi, William. How are you today? Speaker 2: I'm doing well. Thanks for having me on, Claus. Speaker 3: Influencer marketing has changed a lot in the past. Instead of paying big celebrities, it has shifted to micro influencers. Let me know why brands are moving away from celebrities and what's the advantage of working with micro influencers. Speaker 2: Absolutely. So influencer marketing, as you mentioned, really started with celebrity promotions and not for any unknown reason, right? As a celebrity, you have a large reach. So you promote a product, getting visibility or awareness across a huge amount of people and sell a lot of stuff. What has shifted is two things. One is trust and two is social platforms algorithms. So in the trust side of things, now consumers realize quite well that celebrities are getting paid a lot of money to do promotions for products. And obviously, there's Federal Trade Commission disclosures. You have to say that it's sponsored. It's an ad. It can't just be kind of an unknown promotion. But that reality of getting paid a lot of money, people or consumers now understand that if you're promoting a product and getting paid thousands, hundreds of thousands, sometimes millions of dollars, it's not a very trustworthy or authentic type of promotion, right? You might not really care about the product. You're doing something for money. Because of that lack of potential trust, those sales have diminished, right? Obviously, you'll still drive a whole bunch of sales. There's still some clout, you could say, that comes from a celebrity utilizing a product. But it became a bit more skeptical as far as, should I actually trust this celebrity with this product promotion? The second big issue with the larger celebrities, and I'll dive into why micros are actually becoming much more effective, But the other secondary issue is social media platform algorithms have changed quite a bit. It used to be the fact that if you had a million followers and every single one of those million followers was on social media the few days after you posted something, pretty much everyone would see it, or at least the majority. Now what has happened is that only followers who are highly engaged with a profile will end up seeing content that is posted by a profile. And the reason social platforms changed is that Accounts started following all these different people and maybe you followed someone because your friends were following it or you saw them on TV or something for some reason, but you didn't really care that much about their content. And so your feed started getting filled up with all this content you didn't really care about. And then you left Instagram or you left TikTok. And they didn't like that, obviously. They want you to stay kind of glued to those platforms. And so what they realized was We only want to show content to users or consumers that they actually are truly engaged with. A consumer is not engaged with a profile. They're really not going to see a lot of the content that's produced by them. And then secondarily, what's shifted is that someone, if you do produce really, really high quality content that is extremely engaging, not only your followers may see it, but also people outside of your follower base. And so you can have like 100 followers these days and have a post that actually gets millions of views. It goes viral if you produce enough content. So there's been this big shift from I'm a follower-based celebrityhood to honestly content curation and quality of content that is kind of king now. That has directed the shift towards what the industry calls nano or micro influencers. For those of you who don't know what those types of people are, usually the common definition is a nano influencer is someone with less than 10,000 followers. A micro is less than 100,000 followers. Two reasons why they've become much more effective or much more popular for types of product promotions. One is going back to very similar reasons I mentioned of why celebrity kind of promotions have been diminishing is first off trust is when you have a smaller audience, it's people who really, really care, right? You don't have this kind of celebrity power. You're following someone because you actually really like their content. You either know them, you might be friends, family, close acquaintance and so when you post as a smaller influencer or social media user, your engagement levels, people look at your profile more, they take action on your profile, they like, they comment, they share at a much higher percentage base than a lot of the celebrities now. And that engagement metric correlates to sales, which is, at the end of the day, a main reason people are collaborating with influencers. And then the second thing, as I mentioned, is the social platforms are now really catered to those creators that create really good content, high-engaged content. And now their content is not only reaching a larger percentage of their audience, but it's also going beyond their audience and getting that celebrity reach. And they're cheaper. You don't always have to pay thousands of dollars. It's more cost effective, right? And you can spread a marketing budget out across a variety of different smaller accounts, diversify your risk as opposed to putting kind of all your eggs in one basket. I know that was a mouthful. Speaker 3: No, I think it was a very good overview of what the situation is. And I think many of our listeners can relate to that and me included. I probably follow very few celebrities on social media, but a lot of smaller influencers that are dealing with topics that I'm interested in. So I'm engaging more. So it makes perfect sense. Now, obviously, for a brand, you said you can get further with your marketing budget because you can involve more influencers in your marketing strategy. I think before we go into the next step, the first step, I think, is finding them. That's obviously an issue because how do you find them as a brand? What's your approach there? Speaker 2: Yeah, so two biggest challenges with micro and nano influencers is exactly what you said, finding the right people for you because not everyone's going to be the right fit. And the second thing is really scaling because unlike a celebrity, you do want to aggregate that smaller follower base. Not every person's going to create some content that goes viral. And so if you're subjugated to a smaller follower base, you want to aggregate those smaller follower bases so that you can potentially get a much larger reach. Finding people becomes a challenge. If you have no marketing budget, strategies simply are to use hashtags or kind of certain topic searches on Instagram. Figure out things, let's say you're selling a beauty product. You might want to be searching certain tags, say it's makeup specifically, around makeup tutorials, people who are creating these types of content, and using tags to identify themselves as this type of creator. And then a decent amount of manual effort here, and this becomes a challenge. This is actually one of the biggest reasons we built Stack Influence was to help with this scaling and management side to these types of collaborations. But again, going back to if you're having to do it yourself, figuring out a good process to create an influencer brief. You want to make sure that someone is following kind of your guidelines as a brand, talking about your product in the right way, educating influencer on what you're saying, figuring out a way to make sure that that person actually successfully completes a proper collaboration for you, and if you're sending them a product or paying them a small amount that they don't just kind of ghost you after you send the product, and then also just making sure that you're tracking actually results, getting rights to utilize maybe the content that they're creating, etc. So, a lot of different technologies out there. I mean, Doing it in a very bootstrapped way, you can use systems kind of like Airtable or spreadsheets to really track these things. Use some automated – there's one software called ManyChat, like automated DM systems or email outreach systems if you can compile a list. Use a VA to hire. But it does become a very difficult thing to really scale and manage in a decent amount of time. And that is one thing that our system We've built a system and a community of about 600,000 influencers so you can actually scale up to hundreds or thousands of collaborations a month as a brand. And every single thing is automated for you while still giving the brand control over, as I mentioned, curating specific content guidelines, what their goals are, what their timeframes are, and allowing them to kind of track everything as it progresses, download content assets, create further-term, longer-term relationships with influencers as affiliate or ambassadors. But yeah, that's basically... I can go deeper into any of those topics, but that's the long and short of it. Speaker 1: And now a quick break to thank the sponsors of today's episode. Are you looking to take your business marketing to the next level? Meet Brevo, the all-in-one marketing and CRM platform designed to help you connect with customers, drive engagement, and grow your business. With Brevo you can manage all your customer interactions in one place, nurture leads through their built-in CRM, reach them through email and SMS, and boost retention with powerful automation efforts. Effortlessly create personalized multi-channel campaigns that ensure every single customer gets the right message at the right time. And that's not all. Brevo offers AI-driven personalization, advanced analytics, seamless integrations, and more, giving you everything you need to market smarter, not harder. Get started for free or use code ECB to save 50% on starter and business plans for the first three months of an annual subscription. Head over to brevo.com slash ECB and take your marketing further with Brevo. You will find the link in the show notes. Speaker 3: So, with the influencers, obviously, you need to pay them in some kind of way. What are ways to do so? Speaker 2: Absolutely. So a variety of different ways to compensate influencers for their collaborations. At Stack Influence, we actually have what the industry calls a product seeding model. So it's product compensation in exchange for a social post. That obviously is the cheapest way to go about it. We find it to be the most also authentic way in the sense that if you're doing something for money, you might not care about a product. If you're doing it for a product itself, Obviously, it's kind of like you being a real consumer giving an authentic testimony, right? But it does limit the types of people who are going to collaborate with you, right? Because not everyone's going to do something just for a simple free product. And people do also absolutely deserve to get paid for their time. And in Stack Influence, we also have monetary kind of bonus structures to compensate influencers for certain actions they take, what type of content they create, the results of their social posts, etc. Now, the second most common way to pay someone is just a simple flat fee, right? Depending on your social follower base, usually the industry going rate is about $10 for every 1,000 followers you have. So, you've got 10,000 followers, you get paid $100, right? Third common way is affiliate commissions. So, you give someone a tracking link that's unique to that individual and negotiate a certain percentage of sales that they drive. So, no upfront payments, but if they drive a sale using that link from that social promotion, you give them 10% of that sale or 20% of that sale. We like to do even our fundamental Negotiation is just for a product, but we actually will incorporate all three aspects. If they do certain actions, as I mentioned, they're going to get some monetary extra payments. They also can create a longer-term relationship once that initial collaboration is done and if they've done pretty well to join some sort of affiliate program, whether that is on someone's website, a Shopify website, or that's through an online marketplace like Amazon. I highly recommend doing a combination of all three. Influencers will love it. Don't just do a one-off promotion. If you find someone who's really good for your brand and fits your kind of niche, creating longer-term partnerships with people is really the name of the game now. Having someone consistently promote over time. The last I would say is almost being sponsored by classic sponsorship like a lot of athletes are by a brand. You're not only getting a lot of free product perks, but you might even be getting a salary from that. That's a more evolved version of influencers. Speaker 3: Okay. Now that makes sense. I have heard about one example of a bigger DTC brand where exactly that happened. They started as an affiliate influencer, and the guy has become a full-time employee of the company because he started as an influencer. Speaker 2: Absolutely. Speaker 3: So you talk about also the different platforms – Amazon, Walmart, Target. How does that work if you're selling on these platforms? Speaker 2: Absolutely. Influencers work really, really well for online marketplaces. The reason being is that an online eCommerce marketplace at the end of the day is basically a search engine. Simple stat here, let's just take Amazon because it's the largest in the batch. About 2,500 new Amazon sellers join Amazon every single day. Insane. There's now millions of obviously sellers on the platform. Also, when someone, for those of you who shop on Amazon, which I assume most people do, when you search for something, about 75% of people don't go past the first page. There's 42 listings on the first page of Amazon on average. If you are not, as a seller, and you have a listing on Amazon, if you're not shown for when someone searches for something on that first page listing, right, you're only, and that drop-off rapidly drops off after the second, third page, right? Like you now, past the first page, you have 25% of the audience to even take advantage of. If you're on the 10th page, you might, no one may be seeing your product, right? And there's, for any given search term, there's sometimes thousands of pages. And so it becomes very difficult to get visibility. And that's kind of the gold standard on the marketplace. Otherwise, if you're not getting any visibility, these marketplaces sometimes aren't cheap. They're taking a decent cut of your margin. And so if you have no visibility, you're not taking advantage of kind of all of that awareness of that shopping presence. So the name of the game is how do you show up in the same way as when you optimize a website for its search presence, you want to basically rank and how do people actually find you? Now, there's something on marketplaces which they call the cold start problem. The cold start problem is that when you launch, it's a risk for Amazon or Walmart or Target to show you on a first page because if your product isn't very good and they show you and you don't make, consumers don't buy your product, they just lost out a whole bunch of money. There's a limited amount of listings on that page. They want those top listings to be the best selling products and best converting out of thousands, if not tens of thousands, if not millions of products. There's also a secondary risk, which is that if you have a really, really good product that might be better than every single product in your category, and they don't show you, they're now potentially losing out on sales as well. So there's this, and that's what they call this cold start problem, is like, how do you figure out what products are good and what products aren't? What Amazon does initially and what pretty much all the algorithm marketplaces will do is they'll test you. You launch a product. They'll show you maybe on a first page or a top page for a few hours and then they'll drop you back down. See how consumers relate to the product because what they're trying to get is data from consumers. When someone comes to you, do people click into your listing? When they click into your listing, what do they do? Do they add the product to the cart? Do they buy the product? How do they interact with your listing? How long do they spend on the page? They're obviously tracking an insane amount of metrics, including most likely where your mouse is actually moving, where you're hovering over things. Now, going back to why influencer marketing can be really, really effective is any external traffic sale that comes from off Amazon to a marketplace listing and drives an actual conversion there is giving that marketplace the data it needs to determine where to place you, right? It's giving that very valuable click-through rate data, sales data, you name it. And if you can provide that very fast to the algorithm, the algorithm is going to take notice and say, wow, these products are really high converting. They just started generating a whole bunch of sales. They could perform as well when we put them at this higher position within a keyword, you name it. And influencers are fantastic for that because they're a trusted audience, right? So they convert at a higher rate than kind of normal ads. You can drive a lot of traffic. And so it becomes a very effective way to not only just simply drive sales, get awareness for your brand, but also kind of become a top listing within one of these marketplaces, which just gains you a huge amount of consumer visibility and can make you a crazy amount of ROI as well. Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that was a masterclass on what's happening on these platforms. So thank you for that. And I learned something. So I think it's very important to understand that obviously somebody who goes to a platform like Amazon, they come with a buyer's intent. So they are most likely to go there to buy something. And now as a brand, if you can really promote your product through influencer marketing on Amazon, that's a synergy effect. Now everyone wins. I have never seen it from this view, but it's really interesting. And obviously, it totally makes sense. Now, I want to go back a little bit to how to deal with micro influencers as a brand. Most of them might not be marketing professionals. They might do this as a side hustle. How do you deal with them? What are the most mistakes you see from influencers and how do you fix these? Speaker 2: Great question. It becomes difficult to deal with sometimes micro influencers. We sometimes call it herding cats because they're all over the place. As you mentioned, not every single person is a professional. A lot of these people are doing it as a part-time hustle gig. So, one of the biggest difficulties is actually getting people to nail the kind of brand brief, you could say. So, like how you're trying to convey your brand, create some quality content. And a second thing people actually, in the product seeding world, so going back to exchanging just a product for a post, one issue that people actually face quite often is getting someone to post in general and not actually stealing a product. Sometimes, a lot of time, it's not malicious when people do that, when you simply ship a product to someone and say, hey, this is what I want you to post, this is what I want you to do. Since it's not their full-time gig, sometimes they forget they did it or life becomes busy, they have a full-time job and then you just never end up getting anything and you're chasing after them consistently. So one roundabout way we actually solve this is get our influencers, and this is something a brand can do themselves, it becomes difficult to Today, we're going to talk about how to create trust in this process, but we get our influencers to actually purchase our clients' products or become a real consumer of a brand, whether that's from a website or some other online presence, before they actually collaborate with the brand. So instead of simply getting someone's interest and then getting their address and sending the product, we're like, great. You want to collaborate with this brand. Here's a link to their website. Go buy their product with your own money. And then once you successfully – here's the influencer posting guidelines. If you successfully follow all of these things, Submit that final social post to our platform. We make sure you did everything correctly. I'll send you your money back for your expenses. So you got the product for free, but there was some skin in the game, right? And that becomes a very effective process. Again, convincing someone to trust you that you're actually going to send that money back is a difficult thing in that process. However, if you're a trusted brand, people will go along with this. And it really solves a lot of these issues with People ghosting you, with people not following the exact guidelines that you want, and making sure that you're educating them the right way. The last thing I'll say is just really giving people direction because you'd be surprised. Some of these people are extremely, extremely creative. I also do recommend giving them decent creative control because you never know what someone's going to actually produce, but still pushing them in that right direction, giving them some example content of what's worked for you in the past. Some ideas for certain tags that you'd like to use, some talking points or different kind of either video or image prompts. Those, while still kind of giving a little bit of open creativity for them to customize that stuff, that is also very key to making sure the content that's getting produced and the post that's going live is conducive to your niche, your brand, your image, your aesthetic. Speaker 3: Now, most of our listeners are in the eCommerce game. They're either merchants, online sellers, or work for DTC companies as marketeers. What steps do they need to follow to get started with Stack Influence? Speaker 2: Absolutely. So go to stackinfluence.com. We have a very simple signup form. We prefer jumping on a quick call with someone on our team so we can discuss your growth goals, what your objectives are, what products you're launching, what products you already have that might you want to push up extra growth for. And then very simply, all you do on our platform is you set a goal for how many on a per product basis How many influencers you'd like to achieve and how many influencers you'd like to achieve in what time frame. So setting kind of what we call a campaign time frame goal. Once that's done, you're going to upload your product info to the platform. So brand details, product info, posting guidelines. We actually will assign every single brand a dedicated manager team to actually help you with this. So kind of best practices, etc. We're going to build out custom landing pages. And then once all of that's done, we get you access to a tracking system. We're going to be able to monitor the whole campaign. Once you approve how everything looks, we go live. It's a very quick setup. You usually can get live. As long as you give us content and upload all that stuff in about three days, but very simple to sign up. Again, check out stackinfluence.com and yeah, we'd love to help you. If you're at that stage of scaling and need some help with automating and want to invest in a way that you don't have to pay every single influencer and negotiate fees and do it on a product compensation basis, especially we have some, as I mentioned, unique aspects in the online marketplace world like Amazon, et cetera, we'd love to talk to you. Speaker 3: Can you share some success stories or case studies? You don't need to name the brands that have effectively worked with you. Speaker 2: Absolutely. So brand, very recently, it was in a baby niche, right? We helped them about 13x their recurring revenue. And this is specifically on Amazon. So like absurd ROI, right? But the simple Reality behind that was due to that fact of higher visibility with the marketplace because it's also like a new ish launch product they're doing about fifty hundred sales per month and then thirty next that due to the fact that. They just increased visibility across a variety of top keywords, across their category positioning, and now all of a sudden just had all these new eyeballs on their product and sales started flooding in. The beautiful thing about doing that on a marketplace is that when our campaign ends, as long as your product – we call being sticky – as long as your product performs at that new position, you have a good price point, you're competitive, good A-plus content like images, descriptions, etc. Our campaign may end, but your sales are not going to end as long as you're now converting on those new consumers. That's an amazing thing to see because it's like, very different from investing in performance marketing like Amazon ads, Facebook ads, TikTok, you name it. You shut off those ads, those benefits stop, right? Investing in influencing is very much a long-term, lots of long-term benefits there, especially in the online marketplaces and also creating those longer-term relationships as affiliates or ambassadors with these influencers themselves. That's another use case that we've seen some really good results from. Someone worked with only even 100 influencers and they found two people who have now provided them with a very big ROI in a long-term fashion. Two out of 100, very small percentage, but Just those two people were fantastic in the long run for them and now they're driving like a huge amount of sales and paid for our campaign like tenfold. So yeah, those are some simple results. We have a lot of different case studies on our website. Feel free to also reach out to myself. My email is william.stackinfluence.com and I'm always happy to share some success results too. Speaker 3: Okay. 13 times more revenue. I mean, that's sort of a champagne problem because you need to be prepared to deal with that. Who's your perfect customers? Are there specific industries or niches that you use to work more with than others? Speaker 2: Absolutely. Before I go into the ideal ones, there are some niches that actually do not work for our platform. I would say there are people out there that will promote any product. But if you're trying to do something at scale with smaller influencers, it becomes difficult. So as a very simple example, beauty products work fantastic for our platform. By the way, the influencer industry is pretty skewed female. So female-centric products or more focused products usually are able to scale more than male-focused products. But across the board, beauty products work really well. Now, Athlete's Foot Cream. It doesn't work that well because people are very skeptical to go on social media and say, check out my foot fungus. This is beautiful, right? There are some nuances, right? Medical conditions, medical condition-related products can be very difficult. Our platform also only focuses on eCommerce physical goods at the moment. Not to say that digital goods can't be promoted, but that's just our unique angle. And then as far as things that work really, really well, as I mentioned, beauty, fitness, fashion products, food, consumables, home and goods, those are our kind of top niches. But we work with a wide spectrum from very niche things to like pets and specific pets. To kids' products, you name it. Influencer marketing spans pretty much most industries. But again, there are some nuances to certain things that don't work so well. If it's not social, we like to call it dinner table friendly, right? So if you're with people who let's – and not like dinner table where you're with your closest friends and you have no filter. But if you're with some people who you've just met for the first time, right? What are topics that you might be open to discussing? Things that you might be more skeptical about don't always have the ability to scale on social. Speaker 3: I think business that have specific products that need a little bit more explanation, they're aware of that. And other than that, I would just advise there's only one way to find out. Unknown Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. Speaker 2: There's products that surprise us completely. It's like, I don't know how this is going to work. And then it actually performs really, really well. So you got to sometimes throw it out there and see what works. Speaker 3: How does your pricing structure work? Speaker 2: So we have a pretty simple pricing structure. It's a flat fee per successful social post. So it's a pay-as-you-go system. Again, you set a goal. Let's say your goal is 300 influencers. You're going to pay on a weekly basis based off of how many people complete a post. Let's say the first week, five people post. You would pay us a flat fee per person. That fee ranges from about $25 to $45, depending on a few variety of factors, what category you are, how niche you are, how much you're scaling or committing to over time. Yeah, pretty simple. You pay us a flat fee. There's no monthly fees. There's no crazy retainer payments that you have to send us. Pay as you go system. Try to keep it low risk. Speaker 3: I like that. It's very straightforward. Before our coffee break comes to an end today, is there anything that you want to share with our listeners that we haven't covered yet? Unknown Speaker: I think we covered a lot. Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, if you want to, feel free to reach out to my personal email or check out our website and you can book a call directly with our team. But this is a great conversation and I look forward to helping some of you on your influencer journey. And if Stack Influence you feel like isn't the right fit for you right now, or you have a very, very low marketing budget, I highly recommend you invest in influencers In this day and age, they're a fantastic tactic, amazing for new product launches. It's not just about promotion, but it's also a big amount of brand building is the last kind of, I would say, tidbit I'll leave everyone with, is that you can generate a huge amount of content, social proof on a website, on online marketplace listings, on social media. It's invaluable these days. Consumers want to see other people like them. They perform better on online ads. So there's a huge amount of aspects that some people think of influencer marketing as just side by side to a Facebook ad, right? Like I'm going to take my only budget to a Facebook ad. I'm putting it towards this. There is comparison there, absolutely, but also see the other side to investing in influencer marketing to also build up kind of a plethora of content for you, of longer-term relationships as people who might be promoting you for affiliate commissions or ambassadorships. And it's really kind of this package of benefits that every single brand needs these days. Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally would agree. And I think that was a masterclass on influencer marketing. I think listeners need to listen at least twice to this episode to get all the golden nuggets out of it. But I think it's a must-have in your toolbox as a marketeer. And there are so many opportunities in there. And I think it's just a growing part of marketing overall. I will put the links in the show notes as always. Then you just click away. I hope a lot of people will reach out directly to you. And thanks for your time today and hope to talk to you soon again. Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on, Claus. Speaker 1: Before you leave, don't forget to visit the sponsor of today's episode. Time to take your marketing to the next level. Bravo is the all-in-one marketing platform that helps you connect with customers through email, SMS, WhatsApp, and automation, all from one easy-to-use platform. Keep your customer data organized, personalize every message, and drive real engagement effortlessly. Try Bravo for free or use eCB to save 50% on starter and business plans for the first three months of an annual subscription. Head to bravo.com slash eCB today. You will find the link also in the show notes. Hey, Claus here. Thank you for joining me on another episode of the Ecommerce Coffee Break podcast. Speaker 3: Before you go, I'd like to ask two things from you. Speaker 1: First, please help me with the algorithm so I can bring more impactful guests on the show. Speaker 3: It will also make it easier for others to discover the podcast. 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