How Can I Elevate My Copywriting In My Amazon PPC Campaign? (Classic)

How Can I Elevate My Copywriting In My Amazon PPC Campaign? (Classic) Unknown Speaker: What's up Badger Nation? Hold on to your hats because we're about to unleash a ferocious classic episode from the deep dark archives of The PPC Den podcast. This episode is guaranteed to set your Amazon PPC instincts on fire. Get ready to navigate the chaos, madness, and mayhem of Amazon advertising and unleash your inner badger. Speaker 1: What's going on, Vagination? Welcome to The PPC Den podcast, the world's first and longest running podcast all about Amazon advertising to make your Amazon PPC life a little bit easier and a little bit more profitable. Today, I am joined by one of the greats, Emma from Marketing by Emma. She's going to be talking to us about how to become excellent at product page optimization from a creative and brand perspective, some of the benefits of doing that and how Tools like ChatGPT can get you from becoming a poor copywriter to becoming an average or above average copywriter. We're going to be talking about what happens when copywriting becomes table stakes and how to push table stakes copywriting into excellent copywriting. It's a good one. We'll definitely level up your perspective on using tools like ChatGPT for the purposes of Amazon. And of course, you're probably like me, you're probably a technical marketer. You like optimizing the nitty gritty. You like making cool spreadsheets and cool visualizations of your data. You want to know what levers to pull on. We're going to step back and really talk about the creative component of acquiring customers on Amazon. If you're new around here, we've got a whole bunch of episodes. There's a spreadsheet in the description here that you can go get with all of our episodes categorized so you can actually go back and listen to the first episode that we did with Emma years ago and see how that's progressed because a lot of those principles are still valid today. Without further ado, let's jump in to the episode. Unknown Speaker: And picked keywords. I've got my bits. Some placements too. And bad mistakes. I've made a few. I've had my share of wrong keywords. We are the creepy shooting light frail. We are the PPC Den. No time for medicals, cause we fixed the game. Speaker 1: Emma, welcome back to the show. It is so nice to have you. Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Speaker 1: It's been, it's been a while since you've last been on the show. Um, what has been new that you would like to give us an update on? Cause I think last time maybe, um, you just moved and you're getting settled to a new place and I'm curious sometimes too, as an entrepreneur, I feel like your location matters a lot, especially when you move. Has it helped you being in a spot for an extended period of time? Speaker 2: Okay. Funny enough, I just recently started a YouTube channel and I have a video in the wings that I'm getting ready to post, which is a little bit of a departure from most of the content that I've been creating. It's essentially why you should move. It really touches on that because When we are entrepreneurs, who we are in our lives influences who we show up, how we show up as business owners and leaders. And moving to Las Vegas has been such a valuable move for me as an individual, for my relationship and for my businesses. For for you reasons, one being that there is a pretty large. Uh, Internet online business community here. And so the majority of my friends that I've created. Are also really business driven, even if they don't have their own businesses there. I'm the CEO of The PPC Den. I work with a lot of people who are still in very high drive entrepreneurial kinds of roles in their businesses. And so it's been amazing to be surrounded by all of these people that are ambitious and smart and even have different perspectives from the different industries that they're in, that when I'm talking with them about a challenge I'm having, they're really able to relate but also bring in some outside information And then also just as a person, Las Vegas, I think most people consider it to just be the Strip. And it's actually, there's a lot beyond the Strip. There's incredible hiking very close by. There's amazing food that's even in the suburbs. This is a great place to eat. And there's just always so much going on, whether you're interested in music or theater or Art, it's all here. And so I feel very fed as a human, which then makes me able to have a lot more enthusiasm for my work. Whereas before, we were living in a college town, much smaller, more traditional. And I almost felt like my entire being was my business. And I didn't really have a lot going on outside of that. And so I was always thinking about my business in a way that I think We went beyond what was healthy and started to just kind of be more of, you know, obsessive quality. And so being able to get that distance, being able to be excited about different things and really develop myself has just been an incredible experience. Speaker 1: That was wonderful. We should just end the podcast there. We got it. That's great. I mean, so much wisdom there. So number one, excited for your YouTube channel. And it sounds like it's going to be a sort of a personal entrepreneurial YouTube channel, which is that right? You're going to launch... Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm kind of dabbling in a lot of things in general. I'm not a narrow focus kind of person. I'm very curious and I love learning about a lot of things. Right now I'm still kind of experimenting with different kinds of content, but yeah, very, very much focused on the entrepreneurship personal journey alongside marketing, psychology and e-commerce. So kind of a blend of those. Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, you mentioned something that triggered I, this is my favorite entrepreneurial book ever written called Reboot. by Jerry Colonna, Leadership in the Art of Growing Up. And it talks a lot about how leaders carry a lot of baggage into their companies. And that baggage comes out in a variety of ways. Being short with your team members, wanting to achieve a certain level of success, scorched earth style. So we carry a lot of this baggage and that book helps unpack that. So maybe look at the environment that you're in. What is that actually doing to you on a personal level? And then how do you carry that into your business? One of my favorite, favorite entrepreneurial books. Speaker 2: I can't wait to read that. I think that It's not what people anticipate when they go into business, but it really is, it shines a spotlight on all of the sort of challenges that we have personally in a way that if we don't invest the time and effort into addressing those, they oftentimes end up being the hurdles that really either set us back or, or keep us from achieving what it is that we are setting out to achieve. Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, you know, ultimately, we are just, you know, we have a lot of automatic responses. And it's like, how did we how did we acquire those automatic responses, you know, something happened to us at some point in our lives. And now we think a certain way when certain things happen. And Anyway, it's all just fascinating. Anyway, this is good content for your YouTube channel. You are, you know, you have been one of the preeminent people in the Amazon marketing space centered and focused on really strategic thinking when it comes to copywriting, to creating product pages that really resonate with customers that land there. I think 90% of the time, 95% of the time, anytime copywriting, product page optimization, what your title should be, what your bullet points should be, what your A-plus content looks like, 99% of the time, it's very paint by numbers, formulaic, And I'm guilty of this too because so much of Amazon marketing is very technical. What's the new feature? What's the new report? How can I combine this data? What do I do? To the point where it's almost like you're playing money ball instead of marketing. It's like, let me just engineer success. And I think You are the 1% that sort of says, hmm, let's take a breath and really create product pages that are going to resonate with customers. And I think that's such a refreshing perspective to have. So the episodes that we've done before are perhaps some of my favorite because I hope they help Amazon marketers take a step back and remember like, hey, we're marketing and like so much of marketing is like thinking of the customer journey and what they're thinking. Um, so I appreciate what you do for the Amazon community. Um, so thank you. Um, now we're just gonna get right into it because I feel like that paint by numbers Focusing a lot more on keyword strategy and bidding and SEO and how do I format my title for maximum SEO and all of those things. I've gotten exacerbated with AI using ChatGPT because now I can just be like, hey, here are 10 keywords that do really well for me. Please just give me an Amazon title. And I'm seeing people produce titles now that are like fine, but like you squint your eyes a little bit at them and you look at them and it's like, this reads like someone wrote it and, you know, it's missing some human element in that. So I'm just curious, like what you've seen from that over the last, you know, we're a year now living with ChatGPT. So I'm curious what your first exposure was and where you land on now. Like, tell me a little bit about the journey there. Speaker 2: Oh, well, it's definitely been an emotional journey alongside of a learning journey. First of all, AI as a marketing tool isn't new. But ChatGPT was what really brought AI to the masses. So things like Jasper had been around prior to this. It was clear that this was going to be something that would be influencing how we create. And now we're just all way more aware of that. I think the first time a friend showed me ChatGPT came over to our I was actually somebody pretty well known in the e-commerce space and my first feelings were actually like, well, I guess I'm becoming obsolete. All of the skills that I've invested years into honing and learning are gone and I'm just going to have to reinvent myself, which It still could very well be the case, but I think like any advance, things happen both quickly and slowly. And so AI is certainly in the process of fundamentally changing almost every aspect of our lives as humans. And at the same time, it's not necessarily doing that at the speed that everybody was speaking about a year ago or Nine months ago or whenever, like really started to, to catch on. And so when it comes to Amazon listings and creating copy and, and, and just being a marketer, we really entered into an experiment, experimental Stage where we said, let's just try all the things and see what works, what doesn't work, where this can be valuable and leaving any pre-existing feelings or notions on outside because they weren't really going to help us. And so we've tested Pretty much every listing building AI, we've tested all the different prompting that you can do with the different, we've also tested all of the different chats, you know, the ChatGPT and Claude and Bard and all of those against each other with the same prompting to see if different AIs do better in different types of tasks, which is the case. But they're also always changing, so it's never stagnant. So I think the best way of working with these tools is to constantly bring curiosity, but never be dependent on them, because that's where I think you can start getting into trouble of making mistakes. And when it comes to what you're talking about with the titles that you're seeing, or really anything that we see with AI, We always kind of notice when something is AI created, imagery included. Like there's just always something and it's not always a tangible thing that we can point to, but we just know that it doesn't feel right. But I think aside from that, aside from our personal responses to it, one of the interesting things about AI is that it's very much leveled the playing field. So an advantage that a lot of Businesses had in either having native English skills in-house or just having a little bit of extra money to invest. That's not as much of an advantage now. Now, regardless of where you are in the world, even if you don't have a budget, you can get something that is possible. Now, is it something that's going to allow you to Will you be able to capture huge market share? No. But will you be able to pass some of those challenges like no longer having an unintelligible listing, which a lot of companies still have on Amazon, to be frank, but there's less of an excuse or reason why that should be the case now. Which means that it actually puts even more significance and importance on figuring out some of these other creative choices. If the lower bar has been raised, then what do you do to make sure that you are still being heard, that you are still connecting and resonating? And there's also more opportunity for a lot more noise because people can create high volumes of content everywhere. So it's the same challenge in some ways, but a different challenge at the same time. It will be interesting to see the way that it shapes even how we make decisions as customers. I don't think that we've, I think we're still in an early evolution of that as well. So yeah, that was high level and hopefully a little bit more. Speaker 1: Yes. So the one point that you mentioned is like no one has an excuse anymore to be an F-level copywriter. Yeah. Meaning you're able to pass the test with AI tools, which should get you closer to where you want to get. And I think that's been one of the biggest impacts with, I think it was Boston Consulting Group that came out with a study about Impact of performance with AI and I think the summary of it was that it turns below average performers into average or above average performers, but it cannot make them excellent. And I thought that was a really interesting thing. And then you mentioned something about using it like just another creative tool, like another spot to sort of We're going to talk a little bit about how you can test and see how you can incorporate it. So I guess the question is, what was the conclusion of that exercise? You're someone who I would consider to be in that excellent copywriting bucket. How has AI changed your process or has it changed your process? Speaker 2: It has absolutely changed our process. I would say the biggest areas where it's changed our processes, and again, this isn't a finite thing. We're testing different things and I imagine it will continue to evolve as the AI gets better and things change. But right now, some of the main ways that we are leveraging AI is certainly when it comes to research. It's great at being able, at pattern recognition. So if you are wanting it to review a bunch of reviews or survey a lot of data or information, it can do that very effectively. The PPC Den is a great place to start and give you some great insights that you might not have even recognized if you were doing it manually. So that's definitely one of the places that it really shines. I think it can also be helpful at identifying blind spots or just making sure that you're really considering everything in the ideation stage of things. It's pretty formulaic and lacking, but sometimes those outputs can still be helpful for triggering an idea that you wouldn't have thought of otherwise. And so for brainstorming, for when you are feeling stuck, it can be fantastic. It's great for rephrasing or if you're wanting to kind of We're going to talk a little bit about how you can see what different voices might be like. So you can very quickly get a lot of different examples to then be able to pick and choose and synthesize. And maybe sometimes there will be a phrase that just really stands out that you're like, Oh, I like that. And if I made this adjustment, then I could incorporate that really well. And so using it to be able to, to do more comprehensive research on how often you're just stuck staring at a blank page. For us, those have been the biggest benefits. We also, we really like WordTune, which is an extension app on Google. I imagine they probably have it for other, in other platforms as well, but that's what we use. And it's, it's, it's almost like an editor. So you have the Grammarly component where it's reading your work for grammatical elements, but it also makes suggestions based on tone or if you want to make something more concise. And it's almost like a living breathing thesaurus as well. So if you want to reword something, then you're able to reword from directly within that. So that's one of the few Specific tools that we actually pay for that we use in addition to ChatGPT and Claude are our two main chat tools that we like. Speaker 1: So the first thing I heard there was really amplifying a process that you already followed. So for example, you would refer to reviews for inspiration and you would grab as much data as you could manually reading through them. And now you can synthesize an even deeper summary with that kind of thing, having it summarized and pull insight from there. So sort of amplifying the existing workflow that you already had. And then the second one being Copywriting is difficult for humans. It's a lot. I've only ever sat down and really racked my brain. Let me refer back to, I think one of my favorite books was Cashvertising. And it's just like, let me thumb through that. Let me think about it. All of that kind of thing. And it's really a lot of work. And it's like, if I can make that a little bit, have ChatGBT or have an AI, I do some of that heavy lifting so that I can sort of jump over those hurdles a little bit faster, but still knowing like the end result that I want for that particular customer, for that particular page that I'm working on is really, really valuable. Speaker 2: Exactly. Great summary. Speaker 1: So that's really cool. Also, I saw a, I think it was Neil Patel, who I think lives in Las Vegas. Neil Patel. Speaker 2: He just moved actually, but he did. Speaker 1: He left. They created a thousand blog posts, 500 with ChatGPT, 500 with BARD, or it might've been 10,000, 5,000, 5,000. He's got scale. And I forget the percentage of what... And then he asked people, like, do you prefer the blog posts on the same topic from BARD or ChatGPT? And it was like BARD by a mile. I think it was like 70% of people preferred. I'm paraphrasing, but like that was the general gist. So you found Bard to be pretty strong. I noticed that you originally said ChatGPT, Claude, and Bard. And then when you just said you're using those chat-based tools, you did not mention Bard. I'm curious, is that your stack that you're using, ChatGPT and Claude? Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say more heavily leaning towards ChatGPT. We have the plus. So the ChatGPT 4, I would say, is our go-to. Claude is valuable at times and sometimes if you just want a little bit of a different spin, then it's helpful. But I think it's really interesting what he did. I would love to see the human component added into that as well. That to me would be fascinating. And obviously at a magnitude that would be really hard and expensive. To accomplish unless I guess you were having all of your articles that you are, he probably has over a thousand articles in his catalog, very prolific with their content. But that's my question. Like, okay, well, we can maybe choose the one that's the best at writing blogs, but is that even the right Question to be asking, uh, and, and also what, what is ultimately our goal? So if our goal is to quickly create an archive of information as a starting point for establishing your SEO presence, and now we're kind of talking off Amazon stuff. Then you could use AI to very quickly do that and then maybe have a human go back through and begin to really strengthen and tighten those up. But also, at the end of the day, you need to be creating content that people are actually going to want to read and interact with. And so if you're just creating a lot of noise, you're not necessarily Helping things. So if we know that humans prefer one AI blog over another AI blog, but actually they don't want to read either. It's just that they're getting compensated for this study. So they need to read them and rate them. Then that it's just always helpful to kind of ask maybe the questions that aren't even being brought into the conversation that are also very important. Speaker 1: So to shift back towards Amazon, I agree with you. I think AI tools will help a really below average copywriter get average. What would you say is, and this might be a repeat of what you've mentioned last time you were on the show, but what will separate the excellent pages, the excellent creative components of a product page What will push those into the 1%? So we're talking about resonates with customer, earns high conversion rate because of that intense solving of that need that that product page does. So it hits a lot of the things that a lot of technical marketers are looking for. It's like, wow, this page converts so well. This product ad gets such a huge click-through rate because people are just magnetized towards it. What would you say are those elements As we sit in late 2023, early 2024, what are those elements that we should be paying attention to if just the writing of a fairly well-formatted Text block is now table stakes. What will push us into that sort of upper echelon? Speaker 2: Great question. Of course, fantastic imagery is a must and really making sure that if we're remembering that there's now an opportunity for a lot more content, then it's important to also consider that the customer is likely on the verge of The PPC Den is constantly being overwhelmed by too many choices. And so being very concise and clear is, I would argue, even more important now than it was before. And particularly being able to leverage that with imagery and making sure that when you are putting together all of the different elements of your product page, 2023, 2024, you're, it's just foolish. There's really no excuse at this stage. And I would argue that there's a really also no excuse why you shouldn't be using premium A-plus content because it's very accessible for, for brands now. And premium A-plus gives you so much more that you can do that you are limited by With Standard A+, and Amazon has also reported that the sales are higher. I think they said average 20% increase of sales by upgrading to Premium A+, which is quite significant. Speaker 1: It's crazy. I just witnessed my wife was searching on Amazon, found a product, only two reviews, right? So two reviews, pretty questionable. Would be avoided, but after scrolling down and seeing like, oh, this is a real product. This is like a real company. Like look at all this stuff associated with it. It like pushed it over the edge. Like this is a real company. And you know, how many, you know, companies struggle with. So like, yeah, so I'm just confirming the impact of A-plus content for sure. Speaker 2: Yeah. And, and, and thinking about how you can use A-plus, premium A-plus for different kinds of ways, because Let's say that you're selling a very feature dense product. Having the hotspot module, which is essentially like a lot of little dots that it's interactive and you can hover over the different dots that are on the image of the product and it will give you some text and a zoomed in view of that particular part. So for any technical products or highly feature dense products, That's fantastic. Premium A-plus is essentially giving us ways to be able to present our products as we would choose to present them on our own websites, and now being able to do that on Amazon, where Amazon product pages really had been quite limiting up until this point, even with standard A-plus, just because you weren't able to have some of those different interactive types of modules that would allow you to be able to present your product in the way that you would want it to and so that's really powerful what you said that even though this product didn't have a lot of reviews because it had a professional looking page that automatically gave a high degree of trust. And part of that is because you probably want to have decent images if you're taking the time to create premium A plus content. So now you have nice imagery, you have something that just visually looks good. And I think that's probably one of the main reasons why Amazon has started to make premium A plus content so much more available for sellers is because they recognize that it helps with some of the legitimacy and trust issues of kind of being considered the marketplace of, you know, counterfeiters. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: And garbage products and everything. And so it's not And of course, also, if you're going to be selling more than they're going to be making more money, so it's win-win in that respect as well. Also, to get premium A-plus content, you have to have a brand story, which is another fantastic tool that was not so available all that long ago and allows you not only to communicate who you are as a brand, but also to cross-promote Other products. So it it's great for a variety of reasons. So those both of those pieces, I would say, are pretty indispensable to what any brand should be thinking about in in really setting themselves up for a successful 2024 is making sure that all those pieces are really honed and and and capitalized on. Speaker 1: So to sort of use the Las Vegas reference, the table stakes now are the words. Like words will probably be, like good words will probably become more ubiquitous. And it's almost of the advantage of the company. I want to say I saw a study one time where people make up their mind about a particular product, like within like two seconds. If they make it up within two seconds, in the sense of, you know, I think my wife's experience was pretty atypical in the sense of like, oh, two reviews, I'm out of here. And it's, you know, it takes work to sort of take someone who was on the fence and bring them over. And if you premium A plus content sort of does that automatically, it's almost like subconsciously. And that's where some of that thought process goes in. Really knowing the customer, really knowing like what their fears are can be really valuable in sort of addressing those in a visual way to sort of ease some of those doubts. Let's talk to people who maybe have not set up or put a lot of effort into their brand story or their A-plus content or thinking about getting on premium A-plus content. What steps would you recommend that they take today. Speaker 2: Fantastic question. I would say in order to make sure that you are, well, first of all, Start working on it and it doesn't have to be perfect. It can be an iterative process. So what you put up doesn't have to be the best thing that you've ever done, but it will be an improvement probably upon what you have. So don't allow this to balloon out into some big thing that then it's a year from now and you still haven't done it because it overwhelms you. So it doesn't have to be an all or nothing type of project. But if you're really wanting to make the most of these, pieces, I would say there's a few critical steps to do before you even get to the creative visioning for what these pieces are going to look like. One of those pieces is to gain clarity on who your customers are. And if you're already selling on Amazon, then you have insights into that. You have customer reviews. You even have, what are the most common questions that people are coming to you after the fact? What are the kinds of issues that are causing people to return your product? All of those insights become very valuable pieces of information that you should be considering when you sit down to create your listing. And I'm here to talk to you about how you can make sure that you're not getting confused. Whether it's your A-plus content or updating your images or what have you, are there things that you can better clarify for people so they don't get confused? Are there types of customers that really love this that you want to make feel even more seen and centered around with your content and your images so that it's all reinforcing who is your target customer? We're here to survey your competition and to understand who you're going up against and how you fit into that. So there's no shortage of other options for customers. What does it actually feel like to be a customer searching in one of your main We're going to be talking about putting keywords into Amazon and considering the top options and how are they, what are they considering, how are the competitors addressing that and where might potential opportunities lie that are either things that are being ignored or people that are not being seen or, I mean, there could be a million what you're selling and the brands that you're going up against. And then that last piece is doing probably the thing that And what I think is going to feel most uncomfortable, which is getting strong clarity in who you want to be as a brand. And even if you've done some of that work before, it's worth revisiting that in when you're engaging in some of these pieces, because just like we as people change and evolve over time, our brands evolve and change over time. And some of that is just a natural maturation. Some of that is the way that our category is evolving. Some of it's that we never thought that people that were super enthusiastic about pickleball would be so excited about these bracelets. I don't know where that particular example came from. Speaker 1: Are you playing pickleball these days? Speaker 2: I'm not. Speaker 1: Me neither. Speaker 2: A lot of friends are. They're very into it. Speaker 1: I think you are describing things that Do take more effort than just simply like checking off boxes. Like, do I have a lifestyle picture? Do I have the product against a plain white background? Do I have this? Do I have... and like just sort of checking off boxes. When you think of the biggest e-commerce brands like Dollar Shave Club or Stitch Fix, I'm looking at a list, Casper, so on and so forth. When you think of those biggest e-commerce brands, you can tell that they've done it. You can tell that they've done a lot of that work and the output is huge. Dollar Shave Club is They're gigantic and they sell such a boring product. They sell razors or even Liquid Death, the water company. Liquid Death is the ultimate marketing case study for anyone who thinks that, do I have to do any of this? Do I really have to think about the problems and how my customer feels and what my brand stands for? Can I just get the product and sell it? You could see the impact with Liquid Death Water because it's insanely successful. That's all branding. That's all thinking about who the customer is, who would buy this, why would they buy this, how do they feel when they buy it, what sort of Enjoyment, what benefit are we bringing to people's lives to buy whatever heavy metal water, whatever, however they describe themselves. That's like the ultimate case study for, I've saw another thing that's like, you can just liquid death anything. So like whatever, candles, toilet paper, picture frames, cell phone cases. Whatever it might be, that's just like really thoughtful branding about like we're going to have a tone, we're going to have words that people associate when they think of us. And that's so much more beyond than just like, I'm selling water, I have a I have a video of someone drinking water. They're working out and they're sweaty and they drink the water. It's like night and day between the brands that rocket ship to the moon and certainly there is someone Very well paid at their company. Speaker 2: Lots of people I think are very well paid. They definitely have money behind them. Speaker 1: Yes. They're working with a creative agency. I think talking to the digital marketers out there that only do digital marketing, it's so crazy to go and meet people that work at creative agencies that do that big creative work that you meet with them and they ask you all these questions that as a technical digital marketer, just like, why are you asking me this? Don't we just care about click-through rate and conversion rate? You're telling me to describe how people feel when they think of my brand. What are 10 words that we want people to think of? Whatever. And then they go away for two weeks and they have another meeting with you and they're presenting things on big foam board. And you're just like, those people exist for a reason and the brands that they work with exist, grow for a reason. And I think it's really fascinating for the very technical Amazon marketer to consider those. So, I think that's one of the finer components of marketing. I think it's really fascinating. Speaker 2: And recognize what that gives you because Liquid Death and like a lot of these other successful brands, particularly the ones that are really not inventing anything new, What they're inventing is they're inventing a new category. They're taking a commodity, essentially, and creating a new offshoot of that that didn't exist before, but they understood that there was demand there. We see another example that I always love is Bulletproof Bulletproof Coffee and Black Rifle Coffee are both fantastic examples of the same thing in coffee, which is also not really reinventing the wheel in any new particular way. And so not only are you creating a new category and able to, as a result of that, develop this strong loyalty and brand recognition and all of the things that go along with that, but you also are able to ask a premium price tag. Which, if you are uncomfortable about the, you know, gushy human feeling, emotion types of things, that feels uncomfortable to you. Then think about how you can quantify that in your business. If you could charge a more premium price tag, or if you could generate an additional percentage of repeat customers, or if you could convert a subsection of customers into kind of nonstop word of mouth, marketers for you, what would be the impact on your business? And I think even more so in the day and age that we're in with rising fees and higher cost per click and all of those elements. And the fact that money is not available in the same way that it was from lenders or from venture capital or really anywhere. These are the areas that you can go into to build in additional profit back into your business. And not everybody has to be liquid death. I think that that is more of an outlier kind of thing. The PPC Den is a brand and they do have and began with a lot of money, which allowed them to be able to bring in celebrities and do things that a bootstrapped company is not necessarily going to be able to do. But there are still so many valuable lessons that you can take from that and apply to what it is that you're doing. If you get really clear about who your customer is and who you are, then there is really a significant growth opportunity as a result of that. Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I think if anyone's ever done digital marketing services, like down in the weeds, nitty gritty, conversion rate optimization, CPC optimization, looking at search term reports, rankings, like doing all this stuff for a brand that has invested in branding components and one that hasn't, I mean, it is so much easier to do it for the one that's invested in all those things because it's just like, wow, I launched a campaign here. With this strong brand that I launched a campaign here, with this company that maybe hasn't thought about branding as much, it's like, oh, it's way easier when people land on it and instantly they're set apart and we don't have to try to use technical marketing of like, what keywords are we going after? That almost becomes the easiest part of the whole equation. Speaker 2: Right. And some of that is leveraging basic human psychology principles to your advantage. So in the case of branding, it's not just about how you're positioning yourself, but it's the fact that if you're investing in this, then you're probably also making an effort to be more present and visible. So you are, you know, having different influencer campaigns on social media, and you are having a really thorough, full funnel advertising plan, and what that's doing is it's leveraging things like the mere exposure effect, which the mere exposure effect, to me, is one of the It's like one of the main reasons I think that advertising works, which is essentially states that we have a stronger liking for something that is familiar. So the more that we are exposed to it, the more predisposed we are to think favorably of it. So sometimes we don't, not sometimes, most of the time we're not even aware of this happening. But if we're bombarded all the time with ads and influencers, promoting these products and all these things, we're not necessarily even paying attention to that. However, when we get to wanting to actually be shopping for a product like that, We've primed the pump and now we have a favoritism towards that product without even maybe being aware that we have that. Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I think I saw, I forget what car company they worked for, but they're like, oh, our marketing starts. When the kid is like seven years old, in a sense of like, they're going to see Mercedes-Benz everywhere in certain specific places. They're doing movie placement. They're doing all this stuff that eventually they're going to have a brand vision for what it means to be Mercedes-Benz. I forget what car company it was, but people will graduate as humans. They're going to turn 18 and know our brand because we've been inundating it strategically for decades. I think we've done it. We talked about AI's impact, as well as hopefully we've inspired some people to go out and dust off their keyboard and use their creative muscles to improve their brand story and their A-plus content. And hey, let's check out this premium A-plus content. And maybe I approach the branding from not just a, let me mark off things off a checklist and really think about the things that excite my customers and set me apart. Speaker 2: Absolutely. Speaker 1: We've done it. It's amazing. Thank you, Emma. Emma, where can, because this is hard work. This is really hard for a lot of people that listen to a technical marketing show. Sometimes I'll meet people in person like, oh, what do you do? What field do you work in? I was like, marketing. They're like, oh, what about this, that? And I'm like, I'm looking at spreadsheets, man. I'm optimizing campaign structure. I'm doing a lot of nitty-gritty technical stuff. And I really look at companies like Liquid Death that have created that sort of Amazing. So this is tough stuff. Speaker 2: Yes. Speaker 1: It's the pinnacle of marketing. It's creating products that really sell themselves. And this is what you help with. So if someone's interested in sort of revolutionizing their if-less content, their copywriting, their overall branding, storefront content, where can people find you? Speaker 2: They can find us on our website, marketingbyemma.com. We also offer a free listing analysis. So if you heard all this and you're like, I don't know, this is overwhelming. I'm a little bit lost on even where I should start. We're always happy to take a look at your listing and provide you some feedback of the things that we see as good opportunities for improvement. And so whether you want to run with those or whether you'd like to work with us on improving those, we are happy to help. And also a little shameless plug, as I mentioned earlier, I recently launched a YouTube channel. And so if you're just looking to learn more about marketing psychology and how to leverage all of these different elements in your e-commerce strategy, I would love for you to join me over YouTube Marketing by Emma. Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I see it. I just searched it on YouTube. I just typed in Marketing by Emma. You got it. It's amazing. There you are. Congratulations on everything and thank you so much for coming back on The PPC Den Podcast. Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. This was a blast.