How Ariat Scaled with TV Advertising

How Ariat Scaled with TV Advertising Speaker 4: Has this helped lift performance in other areas of the business? Speaker 1: Yeah, the first year that we went on TV, we saw a huge surge in brand awareness. We were suddenly getting in front of these new audiences in a way that they had never seen our brand before. TV is also, it's a really unique medium for that. You have 15 or 30 seconds to really engage with a consumer. That's a lot longer than the half second that you might get as someone is, you know, scrolling through TikTok or Meta. Usually it's on a big screen. It's an immersive experience. There's audio and visuals. You really have that opportunity to build an emotional connection with the people that you're trying to reach. Speaker 2: Welcome to another episode of Chew on This. Today we have a special episode brought to you by Tatari. So today we're going to be able to be breaking down what exactly is Connected TV, why are brands using it, and what are some of the best ways to optimize it. Today we have Sam joining us, who is head of client services, and we have Tricia, who heads up brand media at Ariat. So, for something that we've all been waiting for, especially Selfishly at Obvi, where we're trying to figure out what does this world look like, we're excited to dive in. But before we do, Sam and Tricia, we'd love to get a little bit of background on your guys' end, a little bit more about what you guys do, and we can get jump-started right there. So, Tricia, we'll start with you, and we'd love a little bit more background on yourself and Ariat. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, of course. So Ariat was founded in 1993 with a pretty innovative idea to bring the comfort and performance of athletic shoe technology into cowboy boots and equestrian riding boots. So equestrian riding boots used to be really stiff, uncomfortable, just, you know, not really that fun to wear. And Ariat was really a disruptor in the equestrian footwear market. And that same innovation is really a key part of our brand DNA today. And we've expanded way beyond cowboy boots and equestrian boots. You know, we make everyday lifestyle boots and shoes, work wear, work boots. We really have a broad brand assortment now to serve everyone who works and lives outdoors. And we're not only a DTC brand, we actually started with much more traditional roots in mom and pop shops across the country. But over the last few years, we really have been growing our DTC business as well. And then I've been with Ariat for just over six years, but I've spent my career almost over 18 years now in marketing. I was able to really come up in marketing when digital marketing was starting to be a thing, right? And people were starting to think about paid social advertising and all of these digital channels that now is day in day out our regular kind of business. But I was working with a lot of brands that really had a strong sense of brand as well. So I've kind of got this Unique background of, you know, really brand focused, but with all of the kind of performance digital marketing chops as well. Unknown Speaker: Love that. Speaker 4: Thanks for being here. Sam, would love a quick intro and your role and how you're connected to this journey. Speaker 3: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for having me. My name is Sam Joachim. I'm the head of client services at Tatari. I've been here for approximately five years. We're coming up on five now. Yeah, Tatari works in the TV space. We work with over 300 brands across a variety of sectors and industry verticals. We work closely with Ariat and Tricia's team on their TV programs. So working through our managed service offering, managing their convergent TV experience. So this is managing They're linear in streaming efforts in the TV space. Speaker 2: That's awesome. And you know, I think one of the things that we're always super keen on is we live in the world where a lot of the DTC brands we talk to, and Tricia, I'm sure you get to see a lot of this from your lenses, Everyone's on this page of make meta work, make Google work, make meta work and then that same cycle again and again and you go through the ebbs and flows of oh today that's working, today it's horrible and you know you start to think like brands and especially you know when we talk about brands Diversification is like something that's almost like imminent now and although we know that we need to diversify, it feels like certain platforms just seem like they're so hard to even fathom in terms of testing and so I'm super excited to get your journey on how you guys even decided to test TV. It's really cool to have a brand that's obviously been Around for so many years, so I'm sure you guys have certain ways that were maybe give you that journey to that path a little bit easier. But give us a little bit of like where did that opportunity stem from and how you kind of brought that to life. Speaker 1: We were at a point in our business where we had a broad enough product offering that we could welcome in a wide range of consumers. And so we felt it was time to bring our brand to broader markets. You know, and TV is also, it's a really unique medium for that. It's a relatively long format. You have 15 or 30 seconds to really engage with a consumer. That's a lot longer than the half second that you might get as someone is, you know, scrolling through TikTok or Meta. And in that time, usually it's on a big screen. It's an immersive experience. There's audio and visual. So you really have that opportunity to build an emotional connection with the people that you're trying to reach. Speaker 2: And Sam, maybe you can paint some color into a little bit more from your lens, right, from the Tatari side. What are you guys doing to make this experience a little bit more streamlined? Tricia, thanks for that because I think it's such a good point of like, 15 to 30 seconds, although seems short, it feels like an eternity in the world of performance and especially what we do on the advertising side. So Sam, how do you guys make that feel a little bit less daunting? I'm very curious from the Tatari side. Speaker 3: Of course, yeah. Listen, TV is a tried-and-true marketing channel. It works, right? It drives your strike from your consumer base and just serves as a source of credibility that bleeds into your other marketing channels. We call it the halo effect, and it's very real, right? Once you see a brand on TV, that credibility rises. Right, and that bleeds into all the rest of your other channels. It makes the consumer more likely to click on those direct response units after seeing a really beautiful brand piece that drives up awareness, whether it's in a 15 or 30 second format. Brand is inherently part of the television experience, right? At Tatari, we also want to make sure that we're offering our clients an opportunity to understand direct response performance. So we offer efficiency style metrics, and we always use that as an opportunity to make sure that we're speaking to our growth-minded clients as well. But in Ariat's case, you're using TV in a very beautiful sense, the traditional brand lifting sense. And yeah, we recognize that for some of the other channels, like Meta, You're Googles of the world. There can be a point where you're reaching diminishing returns. There's all these wide-ranging privacy issues that continue to, you know, stack onto each other over the year, as the years progress, as these tech organizations battle one another. And we just want to make sure that we're able to, you know, give the best value for our clients. And from a brand perspective, that bleeds into other strategies as well. Speaker 4: That's amazing. I have some questions for you, Tricia. I think from my perspective, and this is more of a selfish question than anything else, but there's a few things or kind of not hurdles, but things that are top of mind when it comes to maybe even diving into kind of this channel for us and maybe many others. Some of the things that I think about is, well, what is the type of content we have to come up with? How do we even track if this is working or not? You know, I'm curious if you guys had the same, you know, issues kind of going into it and how are you guys able to dive in and, you know, give some faith into this channel? Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. I mean, when we first dove into it, I'd say, especially having that digital marketing background that I had, you know, really thinking about how we were going to measure it was really a challenge that we were looking at. And that's where Tatari has really been the right partner to bring in. They have robust analytics where you can really compare all the different networks that we're running on, whether it's through connected TV or linear TV. We're looking right in platform, comparing between the networks and then making those shifts kind of in real time to really optimize the performance in a similar way that you might optimize it across your digital platforms. Speaker 4: Love that. One follow-up question there as well is like even and maybe even Sam you might have the answer for this but when is it the right time for brands to really start exploring something like this as well? Speaker 3: You know, it really ranges, right? We have clients who very well are in the enterprise sector, you know, leaning into, you know, large tune-in opportunities, you know, optimizing towards reach and frequency, making sure that they have, you know, different third-party measurement offerings such as a brand tracker, other types of experiments like MTA models, mixed media models, design of experiments that work well for their business, right? But we also have clients who are a little bit more entry as far as their budgets and their programs to begin to test the waters, right? That could be focusing on retargeting from a programmatic strategy. You know, doing some specific buys on run-of-site opportunities for certain publishers that are a little bit more price efficient and can work well within their budgets. So, as far as a range of budgets, we have clients who are definitely entering their TV experience and we have clients who are more established like Ariat who are You know, have an understanding of what their awareness goals are and know that this is a really big part of their strategy in a larger marketing and media operation. So it just depends on the marketer's mindset. It depends on the size of the business and where they stand. But in terms of our offering, we want to make sure that we're putting the power in our clients' hands and giving them the data that is relevant to the program and where they are in their lifespan in media and in TV more specifically. Speaker 4: If you don't mind going into it a bit more where, you know, when brands are coming into this and thinking, okay, well, TV, right? You know, we have a Facebook pixel. We know exactly what the data is telling us. You know, somebody makes a purchase. My dashboard says, you know, an order came in. But how do you guys go about, you know, ensuring, you know, success here? How are you guys tracking and how are you, you know, making marketers feel confident in their decision in investing in the channel? Sir? Speaker 3: Yeah, so we actually have a pixel that's implemented on the Tatari end as well. We have a baseline lift methodology that we use on the linear end. We have a one-to-one IP match on the streaming end. So, the goal for us in terms of how we are speaking to the majority of our partners is just making sure that we're capturing incrementality, new audiences, making sure that we're reaching new eyeballs, but doing so, you know, matched with efficiency. So, yeah, we partner with a ton of different data companies. So that we're able to provide a layer of IP tracking as well on the linear end. There's smart TV providers and such. And again, yeah, on the streaming end, it's all one-to-one match, given that these are all trafficked through digital publishers. So, yeah, we're able to offer real-time results, next-day results, and provide real insights in terms of how your TV program is progressing, similar to the types of metrics that you would see in a digital platform. Speaker 2: Love that. And then, Tricia, I'd be really curious. I mean, obviously, you're heading up a digital brand and the whole brand piece is obviously super important to making sure that your brand is relevant and you're following the guidelines of that. But then there's also a KPI element to it, right? And I feel like brand and KPI are Are tough to put in the same sentence, but it's still important because you still have budgeting and you still have, you know, so many different components that are important to look at. And I'm super curious, how do you kind of measure success on your end from the brand side? It looks like Tatari has a lot of the right tools and a lot of the things that you need to help with that. But maybe you can give us your journey of when you started versus where you are. Where does KPIs fit in and what does that look like? Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a little bit fuzzy. I think anything with brand advertising is always a little bit more fuzzy than that programmatic world. But if we go back to our primary goals, so our goal with TV is really to build awareness and build familiarity with those consumers. So outside of our Tatari measurement, you know, Sam mentioned some of the other tools that brands can have in their pocket. We do run a brand awareness tracker on an annual basis. And then we're also looking at things like search interest across Google, you know, either working with our Google partners or using some of the other tools that are available to us. And we're looking for just increases over time in the number of people that are actually going to Google and searching for Ariat or Ariat cowboy boots or things like that. These are all a little bit slower than what digital marketers are really used to having at their fingertips. But like Sam said, we're also really leveraging all the tools that are in the platform. You know, looking at baseline lift has been hugely helpful. For some of the premium spot buys we do, you see that lift immediately in platform. And you can see it in GA as well. You know, so if we're airing a spot In an NFL game, for example, which we did this past season, you're seeing that spike in visitors to the website in the immediate minutes following the airing, which is really exciting to see, right? Really exciting to be able to tie that direct performance right back to that spot. And then those kind of things are also helping to inform our MMM. We do have an internal MMM that our data science team has built as well. So they're taking all of these inputs from the Tatari platform, inputs from these immediate lifts that we see with these premium spots, and really using all of that to inform the entire effect of TV. Speaker 2: It's really cool. And then I think, Sam, I'd be curious on like when you're looking at some of these third-party measurement tools and the support you guys offer, I think there's probably, you know, you guys touch on a lot about having campaigns being a mixture of reach and frequency, right? Give us a little bit more from, you know, when you're talking to DTC brands that are considering this, right? What does that really mean and like, how do we really get over the hump of like, huh, this feels, still feels too vague. Tell us a little bit more about how to increase our confidence. Speaker 3: Totally, totally get that. In terms of reach and frequency, right, there are ways that a client can start to lean into that as more of an emerging primary metric. In terms of the way that we evaluate it, right, obviously the more reach the better, but you want to make sure that you're hitting your audience at the right pace, at that right frequency. What our internal technical team will make sure that we do is identify what is the correct mark of frequency and to drive that increased conversion for those DR-minded consumers. And just make sure that we're doing everything that we can in the media plan that we put together to hit those marks while still gaining a large stance on reach. Obviously, you want to make sure that your brand campaigns are hitting as many eyeballs as possible and in doing so with really beautiful tune-in moments, large brand opportunities, sports opportunities, awards shows, you name it. I think using Tatari, we always want to make sure that we're leaning into your objectives at the end of the day, while also providing you diagnostic measures. Like Tricia mentioned, we typically see this really beautiful lift in traffic right after a spot is aired. And then we can persistently follow those individuals and understand what their behaviors look like. And that's where you get that efficiency component. And you can start to understand what their purchase intent and purchase behavior looks like. Immediately after the spot aired, so you see this beautiful spike and then we follow those individuals and understand what those behaviors look like. And at the end of the day, right, for marketers who are a little nervous, right, we would always recommend external measurement to validate your findings. Cross-reference what you're seeing in the Tatari dashboard. We feel very confident about the metrics that we provide. But we also want to make sure that you feel confident using neutral parties, right? We'll give you the ability to port that data over to other vendors. We'll make sure that it's provided in the right format so that you can upload that properly and use that as another source of validation on top of your internal business metrics. Speaker 4: Love that. So we kind of tackled KPIs and tracking and attribution. Then you have the other side of it, right, which is the actual buying of the media, the content side of things. Tricia, for the actual content that's being delivered across these different mediums, especially across linear, and then you have streaming, and then you have online, does the strategy change at all? Are you doing different tactics per medium? I would love to hear a little bit more about that. Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, our TV strategy is really multifaceted and you almost end up with this like media mix just within your TV streaming and OLV world. So, we are doing all three. We're doing linear TV. Within linear, there's remnant buying, which is kind of across, it's run of network across a number of different networks where you're not necessarily picking the exact programs that you're showing up in. Then you've got your premium spot buys. These are things that are within, you know, major sporting events, award shows, things like that. Then you have your streaming TV, and then you also have your OLV. We are doing all of these and kind of looking at each of them uniquely. But as a whole, we're still looking to build brand awareness through scale, which means impressions, right? So we're trying to go after a pretty large impression count at a really cost efficient CPM. Your run of network CPM is going to be fairly low. Premium is going to be premium. Connected TV is going to be somewhere in the middle. But the other really important piece of this for us as a brand is the contextual alignment. So we're not just looking at, you know, the cost and the reach, but we're also looking at the content. Do we want to show up in a specific show? Do we want to show up on a specific network in order to reach the audiences that we really want to get in front of? Within streaming or connected TV, you know, that's also really a key part of our TV strategy. We know a lot of houses have cut the cord, right? They might be watching some live sporting events, but otherwise they are only streaming. So it's a really great way to get in front of those audiences. It can also be kind of a halo effect to those premium TV buys that you might be doing. Those streaming audiences also tend to be younger. So that's a part of, you know, what audience we're really trying to get in front of. Speaker 4: Sam, I mean, coming from the Tatari side, you guys have done a really good job at bringing all these placements under one platform. Some of the other guys I don't think have this functionality. I'm curious to know what your thoughts are in terms of brands having a strategy when it comes to getting across all these placements and why it's important to kind of have one place to do it all. Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. Our platform definitely permits a really holistic approach, right? We view TV as one ecosystem, you know, linear streaming, OLV, like Tricia mentioned, whereas some of our competitors in their respective spaces will stick to the ecosystems that they know well, right? Streaming and programmatic will stay in their lane, and linear offerings will tend to stay in their lane. At the end of the day, right, that's the TV that you are viewing from in your household, and plenty of users have access to both, right? Like Tricia mentioned, younger demographics tend to go more cord-cutting, with more cord-cutting behavior. You might have You know, slightly older demographics leaning towards the linear side. But it's always important to have a really blended strategy and have diverse placements, right? Making sure that you have big brand moments to showcase your brand while also leaning into more efficient, you know, run-of-site style buys on the streaming end. Or even rotators across linear. Being able to do all these efforts combined builds to a really strong approach to building awareness at the right level of frequency to make sure that you're reaching your end users and leading to a really successful converging TV experience. Speaker 2: Trisha, I want to get into what it really takes to create a successful TV by but before that I have a question just more so in terms of what you've seen the behavior be from the point of when you've ran an ad and let's say I'm sitting there and I'm watching Yellowstone and And now I've seen your ad, right? What have you seen be the typical journey of a customer who is now engaged or someone's attention that you got caught and you reference something where like within minutes after, you'll see traffic coming. Are these people that have like memorized the website you showed in the ad or are they just Googling something similar to your brand? Are they getting through a search and then ending up on your site? What have you kind of learned in terms of once I've seen this ad, put measurement and performance aside, what's the journey of an average viewer that does end up on a website? Speaker 1: Yeah, it can be really varied. I'd say the majority of people are coming in, they're going to Google, they're typing in Ariat, they may have never heard of our brand before, they just saw this commercial within an NFL game, and then they're coming through a PMAX or a paid search ad and landing on our site, usually on our homepage. And that's usually the first, you know, first exposure that they're really having to us as a brand. I think we're also in a unique position because we have so many retailers across the country. We could also have people walking into stores and encountering our brand there and then remembering, oh yeah, I saw them, you know, I saw that commercial from that brand. Oh cool, here's their product. So we've got kind of two very unique consumer journeys where someone can really get to know our brand. Speaker 2: Very cool. I think it'd be awesome to segue into walking us through what a successful TV buy looks like, especially where did you air it? What were the results? You referenced Yellowstone, sport buys, and a few of those examples. If you had some particular examples that you can maybe hone in on, we'd love to unpack those. Speaker 1: Those would be our top two from this past fall. They really illustrate the marriage of the creative, the contextual brand alignment, and the content to really inform the buy. And those three pieces are all very important to a successful TV buy. I would say the success also starts with the creative, right? So at a high level, TV commercials need to appeal to a fairly broad audience. You can't get as targeted as you can in digital. Ideally, they need to be able to introduce the brand to that audience in a very short period of time. 15, 30 seconds, not very long, long compared to the digital world, but not long in the general sense of things. You know, DTC brands can really have an opportunity in that time to have a really tight direct response kind of message. So I'll kind of start there with our Yellowstone buy. So Yellowstone has been huge the last few years. One of the most watched shows on linear TV. And it was a really unique opportunity for our brand being firmly in the Western space. That contextual brand alignment was just perfect for our brand. And then this season, we had a really special collection of products where we actually did a collab partnership with Janetta Boone. She was a costume designer on Yellowstone. So we had our own Ariat x Yellowstone collab on our site, which was really exciting. We also had commercial buys within Yellowstone, and we were able to craft a 30-second commercial that featured Janetta, featured this beautiful collab, and directed people into our site. So that was really that perfect alignment of content, our brand, and kind of that direct response message that really resonated with people. And lucky for us, it was right before Cyber Week, too. So it was perfect timing to get all those users into our website. And then taking kind of more of a brand lens, because we actually did both this season. It was a really busy season. We had a really exciting partnership with 49ers quarterback Brock Purdy. And we know that sports is a really important placement for us. And we know that's where a lot of viewers are tuning in live, real-time, watching sports. You don't get a lot of people, you know, DVRing it and then fast-forwarding through the commercials. So your commercials really get seen in sports. So with Brock Purdy, we had a world-class athlete and he had a true authentic connection to our brand. He grew up wearing our boots. So he was already a brand fan. It was a no-brainer for us to partner with him. And then we knew that a key pillar of this integrated campaign that we built with him was going to be TV commercials. And then it was really my job to build a media plan around this creative strategy and this partnership. So, of course, going looking for the best contextual alignment. It's really football. NFL can be really expensive, of course. So we were also really anchoring on college football. And then working really closely with the Tatari team, they have amazing relationships across all of these networks, and they were really able to bring us a lot of opportunities that otherwise we wouldn't have been able to have. And so, I mean, we're on Slack with my team day in, day out when we are in-season flighting TV, and they're coming to me constantly with, hey, do you want this spot? Hey, we just got this deal. Hey, what do you think of this? And I'm answering them back as quickly as I possibly can to be securing placements throughout the season. Unknown Speaker: Love that. Speaker 4: So we talked about what makes a successful buy and very, very impressive. When you actually have these go live, right, how are you guys measuring the success? What are you guys looking for for the brand from these buys? Speaker 1: We're definitely looking for those spikes in traffic with these premium spot buys especially because you're getting in front of huge audiences whether it's an NFL game or a college football game. Viewership is going to be high. So we're looking at the response rate in terms of visitors coming to site. Now, I will say that's still a secondary metric for us because ultimately brand awareness really is our ultimate goal here. But like I said, that takes longer to measure. We're measuring that a few months later in our annual brand tracker. So, we are really using and relying on Tatari's measurement to look at that user lift, look at that response rate. To determine, you know, was the spot buy good for us, as well as network comparisons. And we're in real time, you know, week to week, we're changing our buys across networks based on what we're seeing in the Tatari platforms for response rates, cost per visitor, all those kind of metrics that we're more familiar with in the digital world. Speaker 4: Love that. Sam, I would imagine clients of Tatari have different ways of measuring success, right? How are you guys supporting the various ways that brands are attributing success to their campaigns? Speaker 3: Yeah, as Tricia mentioned, she has some key KPIs and secondary metrics that help You know, round out the story for brand. We also have a wide range of direct response focused marketers and partners that we provide those efficiency style metrics, return on ad spend, and lean into, you know, more of those lifetime value style metrics. At the end of the day, we always want to make sure that we're providing recommendations that work best for our partners. And we can always provide recommendations on external partners as well. We welcome the opportunity to provide our POV on that. We have a really robust technical team that can support advanced analyses and run, you know, M&Ms like Tricia mentioned. And also validate external partner results. Happy to give our POV on those at any point. We also have mechanisms in place to make sure that we can create design of experiments, do correlation analyses, and any special types of analytics requests. And can do so in a manner to, in both exporting our data to our partners and also importing data as needed for those types of analyses. Speaker 2: Tricia, you went over a lot of incredible things in terms of just how you guys thought about getting on and testing TV, how you guys chose Tatari as a partner, some of the campaigns you've ran that have been super successful. I think especially for a brand like us who've been kind of on the brink of thinking about it, I think you really made it a lot more clear of how to approach it and then what to look for, especially working with a partner like Tatari. If you had to, you know, chalk it up to the biggest benefit you saw working with Tatari as your lead partner to test TV, what would you chalk that up to? Speaker 1: I think it's the speed in measurement and the speed in results. That's not something that you typically think of when you think of TV advertising or connected TV advertising. And they've really brought a digital first, analytical first approach. To looking at all your results across TV. So that's really been the biggest key to our success. Speaker 2: And then, you know, Sam, I think working with so many brands that you guys do, are there certain ways where, you know, different classes of brands or different categories of brands, do you work with each one in a almost like a custom scenario where, you know, there probably isn't a one-size-fits-all scenario for all the brands, but, you know, give us a little bit of that experience on the back end of Once we're coming to you and kind of looking with the deer in headlights, how do you guys kind of pave that path for us? Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, listen, whenever we begin working with a client, we want to make sure that we understand their business, understand their pain points, their concerns, their goals, what are their KPIs, what are they looking to accomplish by working with us. Because at the end of the day, our success is defined by our client's success, so it's really important for us to get a full breakdown of What's the goal? Why are we now working together? We're really excited about this next step. Let's make sure that we're doing everything in our power to make you look like champions. And at the end of the day, we want to make sure that that's powered by our measurement and powered by just the nimble nature of our offering, right? We have a really special place in the media world to be able to pass over awesome, terrific deals to our clients. So we want to just make sure that we're always providing better opportunities, making sure that we're constantly moving the mark on our measurement offering, and just continuing to advise our clients in the best way possible. There's no one-size-fits-all, right? We want to make sure that we're doing the best job and reacting and working best to lead our clients to success. Speaker 2: Awesome. Speaker 4: So my my use case or rather our use case for for Avi in terms of you know advertising, you know on TV would be to Find newer audiences that we just simply can't using some of the traditional paid, you know channels like meta and Google Want to get that that mass awareness in the hopes that it Improves performance across the board, you know lifts, you know all ships, you know, Amazon retail, etc, etc So Tricia I'm curious, has this helped lift performance in other areas of the business? Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah, the first year that we went on TV, we saw a huge surge in brand awareness. You can even see this within Google Trends. If you search Ariat as a Google Trend, we were suddenly getting in front of these new audiences in a way that they had never seen our brand before. And just saw that really big spike in overall brand awareness. And then within our digital channels, I'd say it's harder to really pinpoint a performance shift because we are constantly making improvements, right? We run our brand media almost like brand performance, and then we're working really closely with our e-commerce performance team as well to make sure those consumers are getting pulled all the way down the funnel. So we're constantly making optimizations to those channels anyway. So it's a little bit harder to necessarily see it there. But we, our entire business has grown significantly in the last few years. You know, it's not all because of TV. We've also opened a lot of new retail doors. So people are, are encountering our brands in more and more retail spaces out there. Speaker 4: Sam, I'm curious is, do you hear the similar story across the clients that come in to Tatari? Are they, are they looking to, you know, make this a single channel and it's like, all right, we're going to drive sales from TV or are they expecting, you know, a lift in, in other areas? Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, like we always advise our clients to, and Tricia, you know, it's so awesome to hear that TV's, you know, supported your business efforts and we're hearing, you know, examples of it improving on foot traffic, right? It's amazing and it's always awesome to hear that from our partners. Yeah, in terms of TV, we always advise our clients to look at the blended conversion across the entirety of the business. How many total conversions are you capturing over how many total media dollars that you're spending? Because we do feel very strongly that TV can impact, you know, brick and mortar to Amazon sales to the wider goal. Across the board, increases to click-through rates on digital and so forth. Listen, along the way, right, we totally recognize that a lot of our partners You know, you're doing a lot of work in other channels as well. Most of our partners have incredibly large media and marketing teams that are focused on those channels. Some managing, you know, their meta buys in-house or, you know, working with a partner agency, whatever it may be. But we always want to make sure that we're helping answer questions in terms of the validity of TV. So we, you know, in many cases, we set up test constructs. Whether that's a correlation analysis to your in-store foot traffic or mixed media tests where we advise clients to make certain changes to budget levels, perhaps from a regional perspective, across your full media stack to understand what channel drives the most impact. I'd call it kind of like a Rubik's Cube, so to speak. And there's just tons of other designs of experiments that we can provide. And make sure that you feel very confident. You know, throughout your path on television. Speaker 2: So, you know, looking ahead to 2025, Tricia, in terms of when you look at Ariat and to be approaching TV, like how are you guys looking at 2025 compared to what you learned in 2024 and the successes you've had? Are there new goals, directions, things that you'll definitely be doing more of? Tell us a little bit more as you go into this new year. Speaker 1: Well, we'll definitely still have goals centered on really growing that brand awareness. We have not tapped out by any means. I still run into plenty of people that have never heard of our brand before, right? So, growing brand awareness is still going to be a big key focus for us over the next few years. And then we really evolve based on our strategic growth areas, what part of the business we're trying to grow, what creative we're going to be developing. That creative goes hand in hand with that buy. And we've learned so much working with Tatari and being able to have all that measurement right in our fingertips. So all of that really works together to develop our TV strategies going into the future. I'd say in the streaming world, you know, I expect those ad-supported audiences will be growing and continuing to grow. So we'll be continuing to test across networks there and be able to make really quick optimizations anytime that we are in, you know, a big campaign flight and just really looking for the best opportunities that make the most sense for our brand. Speaker 2: It's amazing. Sam, anything that's exciting from the Tatari front you guys are looking into the new year for? Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean just continued emergence of into the streaming world You know, for example, right to be this year is covering the Super Bowl, right? There's tons of Sports League coverage now leaning into the streaming spectrum wider ad supported experiences through the likes of you know, Amazon Netflix YouTube and And your more traditional players in the streaming world like Hulu, Peacock and beyond. And yeah, I'd say what we're also really excited about is continuing to create more emerging opportunities with more direct supply opportunities from the demand side and just making sure that we continue to Create more parody on the measurement end from across linear and streaming, making it continue to feel more comfortable for clients to look at it as one singular TV experience. At the end of the day, we just want to make sure that TV is viewed as a singular opportunity. And yeah, linear is still a tremendously powerful medium, but streaming continues to grow and we want to make sure that we're riding that along on those trends. Unknown Speaker: Love that. Speaker 4: I mean, I'm sure the viewers and listeners who were considering, you know, diversifying their media budget, you know, from the paid digital and maybe getting into more TV, A lot of value packed in this episode, so thank you guys for that. Before we let you go, we'd love one final chew from the both of you. Something to give back to the viewers and listeners to take back and implement in their business today. What would that one thing be? Tricia, we'll start with you. Speaker 1: I think as, you know, as digital is getting harder and harder to target, you know, targeting within meta, within TikTok, those platforms is getting harder and harder to be exact. And we are all really relying on AI. I think the importance of your creative and the importance of your creative in the contextual alignment is really, really key. Make sure your brand is showing up the way you want it to and where you want it to. You know, and that's one thing that TV has been able to really help us do is show up exactly where we want to. So yeah. Speaker 4: Awesome. Speaker 2: Sam? Speaker 3: I would just say don't be scared of television, right? There's a lot of perceptions that TV is really expensive, that the CPMs are through the roof because it's television. It's actually quite affordable and CPMs can be Astronomically less than most of your digital channels. It's also not complex. I think it can be daunting to think of connecting with publishers and networks directly, but using our platform, we've already established all those relationships and you can do your buys at the click of a button. It's actually not a very complicated ecosystem. We make it really easy to be able to lean into those buys. And at the end of the day, right, If your business is not ready to lean into a brand strategy, using Tatari's methodology in our platform, you can really focus on outcome-focused measurement experiences. A direct response-focused marketing and media practice can really find a ton of success earlier than you think. In the evolution of your media practice, it doesn't have to be at the point of diminishing returns for your digital channels. Consider it as a healthy part of your media mix and you'll find some really terrific results in most cases. Speaker 2: Chew on that. Speaker 4: If you want more from us, follow us on Twitter, follow us on Instagram, follow us on TikTok and check out the website ChewOnThis.io.