How a Joke Turned Into a Cigar Empire...

What does it mean to be a cigar broker? You buy and sell cigars. You distribute cigars. You broker rare things between collectors. What does that mean? >> In today's world, in the cigar economy, there's essentially three ways you can do your business as a cigar manufacturer. >> It's some of our greatest ideas and some of the greatest people we know have come from sitting down and just talking, having a cigar. >> It's so little about the cigar and it's so much about the story and who you're supporting and what's behind that cigar than it is about the actual cigar itself. As long as it's a good scarf, >> a decent lounge, what can it turn over in sales per year and what what kind of margins can it actually make? >> Your watch from Marketing Misfits with Norm Ferrar and Kevin K. >> How do you do it, Norm? How do you run so many different businesses without pull Well, I was going to say without pulling your hair out, but that's not that I can't say that. But how do you run how many how do you run so many businesses at one time as an entrepreneur? You got dragonfish going on, you got your newsletter, you got uh all your agency stuff, you got uh you know, all this stuff and then you still find time to smoke cigars and all that as well. How do you do it? I mean, most entrepreneurs, they have one business. That's what they do. They they they own a dry cleaning place and they go to the dry cleaning place every day and then they come home and they go to the dry clean place and they come home. No, you got to wear all these hats and change your focus. >> 57 of them. >> I I do the same thing. But I'm just curious from you because our guest today likes to smoke cigars. And our guest today is running a lot of businesses um at the same time and involved in the community, involved in running businesses from cars to cigars to all kinds of cool stuff. How do you do it? >> Cigars. >> Cigars. That's That's what it is. And that's what it is. You taught me. >> No, no, I don't think you're joking because you taught me that just as Norm has been a big cigar smoker for I don't know several decades. >> Yeah. >> I smoked my first cigar in Cuba around 200 when was that about 2010 or so? 2009 2010. Occasionally smoked uh just you know socially or something maybe once a year or something after that. And then when I I met Norm at Amazon events 7 8 years ago, we started hanging out at different events and started smoking cigars and I still was only smoking socially, but Norm would always message me and say, "Hey, um, we got I got to break this call. I got to go out back and uh have a smoke." Uh, I'm like, "Okay." But so he was like smoking daily. And it wasn't until just recently that I actually integrated that into um into my habits where I go out on my balcony and smoke a cigar. And some of my best ideas on running the businesses and on running different things have come while I'm sitting there just relax smoking cigars. So Norm, I have to thank you for teaching me a valuable lesson in in life and in business that cigar smoking is how you do it. That's how you run multiple businesses. >> So are you telling me I had a good idea? >> Yeah, it's the second one of the decade. So you you're on the tool. >> Woo. >> But our but our guest today, I mean, is is doing doing that well, but probably at an even bigger scale than what that one we're what we're doing, >> right? Yeah. So, I mean, no joke, uh just like Kevin was saying, uh just to calm your mind down a little bit, think about, you know, what's going on. And sometimes your best ideas come from taking time. Other people might do meditation. You can do meditation and smoke a cigar later. But what I find uh is that going out on the balcony, you know, or patio, having a cigar, maybe two, you just get some of your best ideas. So, uh we actually met our guests at the Big Smoke in Vegas this year and asked him to come on the podcast. So, why don't we just get him on here? It's Brandon Wells. So, why don't we bring him on? There we go. Welcome, Brandon from Cigar Mechanic. >> What's going on, gentlemen? Happy uh happy what is it today? Tuesday. >> It is. It's a Tuesday. >> Yeah. >> Happy happy Tuesday. >> Happy faking snow day. That's >> again. I'm in Phoenix, Arizona, so I've been shoveling sunshine all day. I apologize. >> Here, the knife. You can take it right out of my back. This is the best time of year in Arizona when it's not humid. >> Yeah. >> I lived in Phoenix for uh about a year, like 25 years ago. I just remember the the best air conditioning was to roll your windows down in your car. I mean, you can go 40 miles over 40 miles an hour and roll your windows down. That was about as cool as you're going to get. >> You know, in the old cars, we called that the 240 air conditioning system. You know, two windows at 40 miles an hour. >> Oh, that's right. That's right. That's right. So, uh, before we, you know, get into the cigar business, cigar marketing, why don't you tell us a little about yourself? How did you get into, well, how did you create this cigar mechanic? >> I don't know. Um, no, to be honest with you, I I I it was during a time that I owned a mechanic shop and um I I was I had I had a mechanic shop. I had a nonprofit. I had these other businesses going and and I had Instagram and all that stuff for all these places. I wanted a place to post one of my passions, which was cigars. And I wanted to be able to post some of these things up. And so I went on to Instagram and I said, "Oh, what about Cigar Mechanic? Let's see if that's available." And lo and behold, the name was available. So I got the Instagram handle and one of my clients was working on his truck and he's a graphic designer and he says, "Man, I got an idea for you." And he creates a logo to fit in the Instagram bubble, you know, where your photo would be. And it was the logo today. It's this this cigar mechanic logo. And uh I was like, "Oh, that's really really cool, man." So I just posted it up there. And I was just I was really taking really crappy photos of cigars and overfiltering them. And people seem to like it and it was all on tools and and you know cars and so cars and cigars and it became a thing and that started in 2016 and it became a following and people were buying stickers and they wanted you know hydro flasks and different items that had this logo on it and they wanted to be a part of Cigar Mechanic which I found interesting. Um, and then you flash forward two years later. I had sold the the mechanic shop and I was in between things looking for something to do and really finding my spirituality to be honest and struggling with my faith. And um there was a moment when I had an opportunity. A guy that I've known through Instagram was in town and somebody said, "Hey man, you got to go meet him and talk to him." And there wasn't really going to be an opportunity. I had an 8 hour job on the books that I was going to be doing uh for a car and it got done in an hour and a half and done right, mind you. Like I didn't skip any corners, but in an hour and a half this thing just kind of fell together and a buddy of mine was over and he says, "I think God wants you to go meet this guy." And I was like, "Okay." So I showered and I'm on my way over there and I'm kind of having a mental breakdown in this moment in my life. And I was like, "If you think you can do something with my life, go for it. I'm going to go meet this guy." and we had a two-hour conversation and he turns out he was looking for a broker and I just kind of mumbled. I said, "Man, I've always thought about doing a cigar brokerage and he's like, "Dude, fire it up. Give me the paperwork. You have my business." Okay, cool. How do I name this, right? Like, what do I do? I don't Okay, cool. So, like to me in my faith and my spirituality, it was a total uh God thing. and all of a sudden I owned a cigar brokerage and cigar mechanic that was my Instagram handle and was getting attention worldwide became the name of my cigar brokerage. So I already had a logo, I already had a company, I already had all these things put together. I just had to put them together and make them an actual company. And um it it that's honestly how all this started. It was just a total here you go moment. And you know that that comes from years of becoming friends with people in the industry though and getting to know these people and and them wanting to trust somebody. And after just a two-hour conversation, man, this business was started and here we are. What is this? Seven years later, something like that. I don't know. >> Nine years. Nine years later. Yeah. >> What does it mean to be a cigar brokerage? What is what does what does that mean? Someone listening like what does that mean? You you buy and sell cigars. You distribute cigars. You you broker rare things between collectors. What is what does that mean? >> Essentially, the way to dumb down my business is I drive around, smoke cigars, and talk to people for a living. Um, that's that's really how I dumb it down. And I I'll let I'll let everybody know here that cigar smokers like, it sounds great, but I'm willing to jump on that grenade for you. You guys don't have to worry about, you know, this spot being filled. I got it. Don't worry. Um, but it it really is it's just essentially what I am is a marketing company for cigar brands that don't have their own reps in house. So today in today's world in the cigar economy, there's there's essentially three ways you can do your business as a cigar manufacturer. You either go the route of pedron, which doesn't work for 99.9% of companies, where you just we are this and if you want it, you're going to call us and get it. What works for the other 99% of the people is we hire in-house. So, I'm going to go find my own reps. We're going to pay them a salary, pay all their expenses. Um, they get a little commission or a bonus at the end of the year, and they're going to be focused on solely our brand and representing our brands, earning consumer loyalty and shelf space and shops. Or you go the route of a broker. You say, "Listen, we're we're not quite big enough. We can't afford to pay all these salaries, you know, so we're going to hire somebody on a commission basis." um is a 1099. So, we're going to look for a broker or a company that is going to represent not just us, but also other brands, uh but do the best to represent us in the best light possible and essentially do what an in-house person would do, but for multiple companies. So, we're a shared a shared marketing for different cigar companies. Hey, Norm, you'll love this, man. I talked to a seller the other day doing 50k a month, but when I asked them what their actual profit was, they just kind of stared at me. >> Are you serious? That's kind of like driving blindfolded. >> Exactly, man. I told them you got to check out Sellerboard, this cool profit tool that's built just for Amazon sellers. It tracks everything like fees, PPC, refunds, promos, even changing cogs during using FIFO. >> Aha. But does it do FBM shipping cost too? Sure does. That way you can keep your quarter 4 chaos totally under control and know your numbers because not only does it do that, but it makes your PPC bids. It forecasts inventory. It sends review requests and even helps you get reimbursements from Amazon. >> Now, that's like having a CFO in your back pocket. >> You know what? It's just $15 a month. But you got to go to sellerboard.com/misfits. sellerboard.com/misfits. And if you do that, they'll even throw in a free two-month trial. >> So, you want me to say go to sellerboard.com misfits and get your number straight before your accountant loses it? >> Exactly. >> All right. Now, is that cigar company that you're representing, is it like in a specific country? Is there a specific niche? Uh what do you or could you take multiple different lines from multiple different countries and sell their products? >> Yeah. So I can essentially represent whoever I want. Um as long as they want me. So that that's the nice thing about it is they can fire me, I can fire them. Um I interview them just as much as they interview me. They're hiring my company to do marketing. So uh it doesn't matter really what brand it is or what country they're out of. Uh I own a territory. So, I my main territory is uh Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, and Nevada. I do some of the brands in Nebraska, and Wyoming since I'm kind of in the area. I guess um you know, if you've already driven, you know, 800 miles, what's another 400 to go to another state? >> Uh two more cigars, right? >> That's that's exactly what it is. >> In cigars, that's four cigars away or two cigars away, right? >> That that's how people ask me, "How long is the drive to Vegas?" And I go about two to three cigars >> or one lunatic. >> 100% right. >> That's a lunatic. >> So So I own I own the territory. Um I own the relationships with the different shops in the territory and then I partner with different brands to you know um to to represent those brands within that territory. So nobody can cross over with that brand. For instance uh Kasa Quuevas or you know Nobody else can come into Arizona or Colorado or any of those states and represent Kasa. We would have to enter a contract with each other and then they can come in and hire somebody new. >> What are you looking when you're when you go into that interview with that brand? What are you looking out out of them? Like what are some of the questions? What are some of the things that you're looking for before you represent a brand? You know, that's a great question because I think a lot of people fail in this space. Um, you know, when I first started the brand, I was hungry. I needed income and I I I needed brands to represent. And so, out of desperation, a lot of people will will partner with just about any brand. And without concern for integrity, uh, quality of product, you know, am I going to get paid? Uh, all these different items that you, you know, you have to be concerned with, right? Because if I go and I sell $10,000 of your product, are you going to write me the check in a month or two when that when the cigar shop checks clears, are you going to give me my check? And if you do, is it going to bounce or is it going to be good? Um, but one of the main things that I look at when I'm interviewing another company is one, uh, can I spend a week in a car with you? if I talk with you and you're just so freaking annoying or your stories are, you know, misogynistic and just, you know, they don't align with my morals and values and I've got to listen to you flapping your gums for a week about crap that I just don't really care about and I don't want in my life, that tells me a lot about you and I don't want you in my car. So, you're already off the docket and I don't care how much income you can provide for me. I I'm not going to work with you. Um, are you honest? Are you integrous? Do you care about the customer? Are you putting them first? Or is it all about you and how much money you can make? And then one of the main questions I ask as a cigar broker, um, and I'll preface this is as a as a broker, our concern is that we can build ourselves out of a job. So, if I get a company that maybe is doing 2-300,000 a year in this territory and we grow them to 1.5 million, they're now paying me more commission than they would pay somebody as an in-house rep. And a company's tendency is to say, "Well, we don't need you anymore. We're going to go hire our own guy and save some money." So my question I my main question I always ask is hey when we hit a million dollars in this territory and and hear me too I don't say if I say when because I anticipate that but when we hit a million dollars of sales in this territory what is your next step and I listen for their answer you know and I can tell you without fail everybody that I currently am partnered with their answer was, "How do we get to 2 million together?" >> If that's your mindset, then I know that I'm not working myself out of a job. Now, there's a lot of people that I've fired and a lot of people that I've said no to that are big companies. And their answer was, "Well, then we cut your commission down." And then when we hit 1.5 million, I offer I'll offer you an in-house position as if you're doing me a favor, >> right? Like, I'll tell you this right now. I am a horrible employee. Uh, I had Alec Bradley call me and they said, "Hey, man. We're looking for a company and we were referred to you and blah blah blah." And I said, "Okay, are you looking for in-house or for a broker?" And he says, "We're looking for in-house." And I said, "So, is this call an interview?" And he says, "Yeah, I guess so." And I said, "Well, can I start it?" And he says, "Yeah, start the interview." And I said, "Good. Let me start by saying this. I am a terrible employee." And I was just silent. And it's funny because he just goes, "That's not a good way to start an interview." And I said, 'It is if I'm not looking for a job. I don't want to waste your time. I don't want you to waste mine. I'm not looking for a job. I'm looking to partner with with companies that believe in me and that I believe in them. And if you're looking for an employee, I'm not your guy. I'm a terrible employee. And he was actually very appreciative and said, "Cool, interview over." Like, you're not what we're looking for. >> When did you start smoking cigars? What how old were you? Was it was it when you started the dirt company at 19 or was it after that? Uh when did you actually start actually becoming a somewhat regular or semi-regular or casual smoker? >> So I was probably 20 uh when I started um that. So 26 years ago. Um I I tell you my first cigar was given to me by by my dad when I was 16 I think. And it wasn't in the way that you think of like sitting in the backyard smoking together like, "Oh, let's have a cigar together, son." It was he caught me smoking cigarettes. So, they tried some reverse psychology crap on me. They said I wanted to smoke cigarettes cuz I wanted to be cool. And they said, "Well, you can do it. You just can't do it on our property." I said, "Okay." So, went to my cousin's house and was smoking a cigarette and he caught me, shredded my cigarettes. I went home, went to bed. He wakes me up in the middle of the night with the biggest, nastiest gas station cigar he can find. And he said, "You either eat it or you inhale it." >> Oh, man. >> No. >> I mean, come on, dude. I'm 16, right? I'm cool, right? So, it's like, oh, I'll inhale it. Yeah, I'll show you. And oh, boy, man, that thing, it was beautiful. Oh, boy. >> So, you picked it back up at 20? >> Yeah, it was about 20 when a buddy of mine comes out and says, "Hey, man. You want to smoke cigars?" And I was like, "Yeah, sure. Why not? Let's do it." you know, we grabbed some cigars, went to the lake, and we smoked. But the the great thing is is like now I look at my dad. I was fishing with him one time smoking a cigar, and he doesn't smoke cigars. He doesn't like any of it. And I looked at him and I said, "Hey, Dad, you know, I was just thinking, how does it make you feel to know you introduced me to this?" And he just says, "I'm proud of you, son." You know, >> I I was lucky when in at my one of my first companies, our receptionist, uh, her boyfriend at the time was the rep for Monty Cristo in Canada or in Ontario and he'd be dropping off cases. These are like these are the Cuban cigars, not the and not knockoffs. And so I was um I was sort of spoiled for about two or three years because I'd always get a case of Montani Cristos if I ran out. Oh, there's another one or you know some other uh Cuban cigar. It was it was awesome. Now I I do have a question about the evolving uh market. So, if you've got a a new company that's coming to or if you're just talking to any brand, a newer brand, let's stick with that, and you know that this market is changing. So, you know, Big Smoke, they were talking about bigger cigars, oversized cigars, but changing. It could be in tobacco, it could be in whatever. Are you asking those questions as as well? Are you sticking with this or are you going to evolve? What are your thoughts on evolving? You know, something along those lines. So, you know that if the market evolves, you're not stuck with X. >> Um, no, that's not really something that I focus on because this this industry is different. Now, if I was in, you know, some other widget, um, I would probably be concerned with that. But in in the cigar industry, um, as you know, this is very much a relationship industry. And people may like, you know, they may like a larger ring gauge or uh, you know, whatever it is, right? Um, you name it. But there's a market for every cigar that's out there as long as it's a good cigar. Uh, and arguably there's actually market for terrible cigars, too. I see them all the time. But, uh, there's people that, "Oh, man. I only smoke this." And you're like, "Bro, like, go cut your lawn and roll that up. You'll have a bad experience." You know, make sure to get a dog turd or two in there, you know, but for flavor, but >> that's the rapper. >> Yeah, the rapper is dog turd and tonic, you know, but it's >> Yeah, >> it's I I don't find that as as as important because one thing that I noticed is I I created my own cigar last year. Um, and it was a blend that was already done, but I created five sizes that weren't done in that blend. And we put them into a 50count box, and I only made 50 boxes, but it was a collaboration with Grand Hobano, and it had my logo on it. And there's stores that I sold that packaging to that they didn't think they would sell, but they bought them because they were buying from me to support Cigar Mechanic. And what they didn't realize is that when they put that on the shelf, because of the time that I've spent with their customer base and at the events and making events fun instead of just being a yard sale behind a table, we actually have fun. You know, listen, we're dudes primarily in this industry. And if we're not talking to each other, then there's a bigger problem, right? Like that's really what this industry is about. Like we got to sit here and talk crap to each other. We got to beat each other up a little bit, have fun, we laugh, you know, have some bourbon, stay late, whatever. And so in those stores, they put them out and that cigar sold, I mean, quick. And they were sizes that they insisted they could never sell, like a Lancero or a Corona. And they sold out and they're asking me for more. And that really just reinvigorated me to realize that it's so little about the cigar and it's so much about the story and who you're supporting and what's behind that cigar than it is about the actual cigar itself. as long as it's a good cigar. >> So, packaging doesn't matter then. I mean, the nice pops, nice labels, I mean, I would think that's a major thing. Now, to a serious afficionado, they're going to go for a stick that they know is good. But the average person that's not a huge cigar smoker, they're going to buy on packaging first, aren't they? Or on a recommendation from a a someone they trust >> more so on the second than on the first. Now where we have a major failure in this industry where packaging does play a huge huge role is because we have so many hobbyists not cigar you know not cigar shop owners and tobaconists we've we've lost a lot of these these owners they want to they think it's a retirement gig right they think they can open a cigar shop and sit on a couch and guys are going to walk in they're going to buy a cigar at the humidor and then they get grouchy when they have to get up and ring the register and They're not actually tobaconists in they're building their relationship with their clients and saying, "Hey, I recommend this. Hey, by the way, here's something new. Hey, you know, cigar mechanic is carrying this new line. You know, you should try it." That really is what affects a cigar. Most of the cigars that I've tried and really enjoyed is because I've been introduced to them by someone, not because I thought that the band was pretty. Now that being said, there are lines like, you know, Rojos has the street taco line and that packaging just stands out. It's called the street taco and all the barbcoa and the carnitas and you know the al pastor and the breakfast tacos and you kind of like, you know, puts a smile on your face and you're like, I got to try a breakfast taco. But again, that's an emotional response more than it is just the packaging. And you can get that same emotional response from a relationship uh with the retailer versus just having a pretty box. I >> mean, we were just on a trip, Norm and I, in Tampa. We did an event called uh CMS, Collective Mind Society. We had nine cigar smokers and we spent a whole weekend in Tampa. We're doing it again in February of 2027. Um but it was really cool. But one of the guys, we were talking, one of the guys said, "Have you ever tried the the David off chef's edition?" And we were talking, he's like, "They're freaking amazing. all these these chefs that as you smoke the cigar, the flavor, you know, changes uh to these chefs. And one of the other guys walked in and they had uh the newest edition on the shelf, like two cases. He bought a case, brought it back out, and he's like what, 80, 100 bucks a stick or something like that. >> 300. >> 300 300. Yeah. Whatever it was, it was expensive. Uh and just said, "Here, everybody, take take one." But that's marketing. Not so much is that necessarily a good cigar or we're trusting the one guy who said he smoked one. But that's the marketing of oh this must be good because it's Michelin Star chefs and it's this cool concept and this cool thing. So and like on yours you you have like you said you have a badass cool logo. So I wonder how many people bought it because it's a cool logo because not knowing who the hell you were. Uh just just like you said on Instagram people are going nuts over the logo there. So, I'm just wondering from the marketing side, how important is that? Because like Norm knows, I collect some of the boxes. You know, if it's a badass looking box, like the Tommy Bahama box or a couple of these others, I I actually collect the box. I don't know what the hell I'm going to do with them. He suggested I make a table out of them or something, and that's probably what I'll end up doing at some point. But, um, I'm buying it sometimes just because of that box. But, I also enjoy the the smoke. Yeah, I found a lot of terrible cigars in really pretty boxes. >> Yeah, there have been, >> you know, and then I found a lot of great cigars in terribly ugly boxes. Um, but it's >> but even like your story with the David off, right? That that is it's the story that sold the cigar. It wasn't the box that it was in. And for me, like the cigar mechanic logo is recognizable. I I'm the first brokerage ever to market my own my brokerage. And so people, they know me and and the cigars that I did were sold only within my territory. And so everybody and the consumers have met me. So the cigars sold well because they associate the cigar mechanic brand with meeting me and times that we've had. Um I go out of my way to make sure that if a guy's having a hear somewhere, I try to go and join that in Colorado one night, you know, and show up. or I hang out at lounges for a longer period of time than what most reps do because I get my business done and then we're bsing with the customers or I'll work the humidor and and have fun. So, they they've smiled and had a good experience hopefully with me with cigar mechanic wearing the shirt and I've given them a sticker and so when that brand hit the shelf they go I want to support him. Um, there are cigars that I love and I think are fantastic, but I refuse to smoke them because of the people that are behind them. >> Well, speaking of that, a lot of people listening to this may be like, "Oh, cigars, that's gross." But that there's something about the cigar culture about when you sit down in a lounge or you're norm at events and we go out find some place where we can smoke outside the hotel or something and there's something a couple other people come up and it's an instant attraction. It's like they're, "Oh, do you mind if we sit with you and have a smoke, too? We got a couple cigars." And you're instantly almost like long- lost friends. And the conversations never get too well, not say never, but most of the time, don't get too political, don't get too religious, don't get too whatever. And it's just a chill thing. And it's like an unspoken fraternity or something. There's there's something just about it. Uh, how do you describe that? How do you describe that to someone that doesn't smoke and doesn't understand it's not just about the smoke? >> Not going out for a cigarette. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Right. Yeah. When's the last time you saw a guy in the cold like sucking down a cigar as quick as he could on his 15 did that on the back of a ship. On the back of >> Oh, yeah. >> We'll tell you that story in a bit. But go ahead. What is it about the cig the cigar that that unwritten culture that unwritten bond that unwritten thing that happens with cigar smokers? >> So it's it's a couple things. One, there's a lot of there's actually a lot of medical benefits to natural tobacco and natural nicotine. Um and the number one the number one cause of disease in men is stress. And the number one way for men to reduce stress healthy is through cigars. Because what it does is it forces you to sit down and build a relationship with a cigar. It forces you to sit down and and slow your mind and just relax for a moment. And typically, especially as men, we have a hard time doing that. Um, I love something John Eldridge talks about in one of the books I read, but he says that any picture of a man standing still is just not a pretty picture. But you can have a picture of a beautiful woman on a beach and it's gorgeous and you're like, "Wow, check that out." But a man standing still just doesn't look good. But men in motion look good. And so we are typically in motion. That's just how we operate. But when we can slow down and just enjoy a cigar, it does a couple things. One, the natural nicotine is actually, you know, gets into your receptors and it it actually reduces your stress levels. It reduces inflammation and it helps you just to slow down your mind. But in that time of smoking the cigar, I find that when I am jonesing for a cigar, it's because I'm mentally struggling with something and I need a good conversation. It's not because I need a cigar for a fix. So, what I'm addicted to in cigars is not so much the nicotine and it's not a cigar itself because I can go I mean, I don't think I've smoked a cigar in like three days now. >> I'm I'm there with you. Yeah. >> Right. But like what I do miss are the conversations, the camaraderie, the getting together. That that's what I'm addicted to is the emotion of it. And when you're sitting in a room together, you have two choices as men. You could sit there and stare at each other awkwardly and just can't wait till you're getting done with this cigar. But when you're not addicted to the cigar, then you you're there for a reason. And so you end up striking up conversation and hey man, what's going on with you? you know, how are you doing? What do you do? Let me get to know you. And before you know it, this conversation's just led into either laughter or seriousness or tears, wherever it is, which rarely do I leave a cigar lounge going, "Man, that was a miserable experience." >> You know, Brandon, just what you said there about, you know, talking back and forth, you know what rarely comes up? you might like 20 minutes into it, 10 minutes into it, but I I don't often hear people talking about what do you do right off the bat. I hear them talking about other things, you know, and that's secondary where in a lot of other events that you go to and sit around, second question out of your mind or out out of out of your mouth is what do you do? And that I think is a huge difference. And you know what sucks is I'm in Ontario. Canada and for some reason. >> Yeah, it absolutely sucks and they closed all the cigar lounges. >> They've closed all the cigar lounges. >> So, you're it's outlawed. And if you want a cigar, you can go out on your balcony at minus30° and you have a cigar, but it takes that away from you. And the tobaconist. So, that's the other thing. Like here, we only have a couple of good tobaconists. And it's weird because a lot of people, especially if you're new into it, they're just ordering online. I have to I have to because uh I go to the States and that's where I buy my cigars usually bring them back with me. But uh they miss that experience of going to the tobaconist and that tobaconist has the knowledge of telling them you know what this is all about or try this experience this what are you looking for and that's half of it when you know you want to go and have that conversation with that expert you know I I I really um miss that when I'm going into the states like where I get that feeling is when I do go to the states and I get to the big smoke or I get to these other people. But um one other thing I want to talk about is the labels. So uh we don't if we get cigars here in in Toronto um they're all brownle labeled. >> Yep. >> All brownlabeled. We're not allowed to look at the cigar label. Like and this is another like I'm a I have a big big pet peeve about this. The cigar industry and and this is just misrepresentation. You've got cigarette tobacco, which is light tobacco, completely different. It absorbs into your system. You inhale it. It's under pH. It's a pH level of under seven. Then you've got dark tobacco. And people really don't understand what you were talking about. I can guarantee anybody who's out there that's listening and is an anti-smoker is going to say, "Oh, that's tobacco. That's going into your system." Blah blah blah blah blah. But it's such a different type of tobacco. But we were kind of all put into one kettle and >> it goes into your system if you're 16. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Or like if you eat it or if you inhale it. Yes. >> If your dad comes in the middle of the night and says eat this, it goes into your system. >> But that's a that's a bit of a rant, but the thing is I'd like to go. So we went to Quebec. We went to a cigar lounge. Overpriced cigar lounge there. Much overpriced. you would believe the prices. And they were all brown labels. Now, I wonder what the average is in a regular cigar uh um uh lounge in Austin, Texas, compared to the brands that are picked in Montreal, Quebec, because there's no marketing. The labels are covered. I I wonder what that would be, you know, or if they only buy a Padron because people know Padron or a Cohiba. But, uh, it would be interesting to see an interesting stat. >> Yeah. And I'm sure I could probably find out that data. Um, the difficult thing is is that you don't have the number of options that we have here either. And so you are looking at limited to, you know, Altus, General, Drew Estate, you know, uh, you know, you got the Alec Bradley's, which are now general, but you're limited to what is actually up there because it is harder to sell the smaller brands in Canada. one, are you going to spend with your with your taxation up there um and the limitations that they've put on you guys, are you going to spend, you know, $35, $40 on a cigar to take a risk, or are you going to go to the one that you've always smoked that you know? >> Yeah. >> At at $10, you'll take the risk. At $35, probably not, right? Because you want to make sure you're enjoying that because at $10, you can say, "Oh, this was terrible. Put it out and go grab another one. not so much at the 35. And so it would be interesting to see. I think it'd be a little bit of a skewed experiment just simply because we're not just talking plain packaging versus open packaging, but we're also talking about limited in the products and pricing, >> right? So, and I'm assuming, and I know you guys are limited to like me coming up there and doing an event and standing there and promoting our cigar line because they clearly think that, you know, every child in the state is or in the area is walking into that store and buying cigars premium and smoking. >> But, you can smoke weed anywhere. It's that's fine. Like, don't smoke a cigar. But, uh, yeah, smoke weed anywhere. >> It's it's ridiculous. It's and and the studies that come out specifically on cigars and raw tobacco, it's scary to show that there that actual nicotine like from raw tobacco from what we consume. Remember, there's only two ingredients in every cigar, right? It's tobacco and pectin. And pectin is a fruit paste you can buy at your grocery store and it's what they use for food glue. And it's literally fruit paste. It uses fruit to make a glue. >> That's all it is. And that's only used to hold the leaves together. Like that's it. That's all you have in a cigar. And when you look at the studies of raw tobacco, there's actually studies in other countries other than in ours who was like, we're obviously have medical issues here, right? We don't want to cure people in the United States. We just want to take their money and keep them sick. But there's studies showing about how nicotine is actually a cure for a lot of things. During COVID, they were talking about using nicotine as a as a good way to get um the the vaccines and to help cure the COVID and to fight that. The first thing that a virus attacks is the the same thing that is your nicotine receptors in your body. And so when you're providing that, I mean, I know a doctor that wears a nicotine patch every single day because it keeps him from getting sick. and he gets sick far less than he used to since he started having nicotine in his system. >> It all comes down to the marketing, doesn't it? >> So, you know, we're we're not not we, but the cigar lobbyists, I guess I I guess the I guess the US government uh is probably a little bit bigger than the cigar lobbyists. And uh we it's it's the marketing like no matter how you market this, you're going to be the bad guy. >> Yeah. And yet we have vape we have vapes running willy-nilly. We got weed doing whatever they want to do which were finding adverse effects on weed. Um you know vapes man popcorn lung and the way it's killing and and you're seeing high school students standing outside their store sucking down or their school sucking down vapes like crazy, you know. It's like and yet we're attacking the cigar industry which we've made a lot of headway especially here in the US we've made in the recent years by having a definition of what a real cigar is and all that kind of stuff. We've made a lot of headway but there's so much more to go and the damage has been done on a lot of society believing that this is bad when actually there's a lot of health benefits to cigars. Like let's just be realistic about it. If you step away from everything you've been taught and you look at the truth, kind of like most things, there's a lot of benefits to it. Um, you can't always just believe everything that you're fed. You know, it comes down to control. It comes down to dollars and dollars in control. They they want their money. They want to control people. And that goes not just with the US, but all governments. Are you looking to quickly boost new Amazon product launches or scale up existing listings to reach first page positioning? The influencer platform Stack Influence can help. >> That's right. Stack Influence pushes high volume external traffic sales straight to Amazon listings using micro influencers that you only have to pay with your products. They've helped upand cominging brands like Magic Spoon compete with Cheerios for top category positioning while also helping Fortune 500 brands like Unilver launch their new products. Right now is one of the best times to get started with Stack Influence. You can sign up at stackinfluence.com or click the link in this video down in the description notes below and mention misfits, that's misfitts, to get 10% off your first campaign. stackinfluence.com. Another big trend in marketing right now, just in general marketing in general, is vintage. Everything is, you know, going back. It's the vintage look right now is is hot. The vintage things are are hot. >> That also applies to cigars too, right? I mean, not just and I know you do vintage cars, so you're familiar with that. >> But vintage can be marketed as not old, but as premium in a lot of ways. And that's what a lot of brands are doing now. Louis Vuitton's doing that, a lot of these guys. But you're see starting to see some of that in the cigar industry, too, right? >> Yeah, somewhat. the cigar industry is so far behind, man. We're I mean, the way I like to explain it, and it's not gonna hopefully I don't offend anybody. If you're offended, then I'm sorry. Grow grow a pair, but um you know, we're just a bunch of dumb guys, you know, selling tobacco leaves that are rolled up. And ultimately, the majority of our cigar companies are just a bunch of guys that came from Cuba that didn't grow up running businesses and all, you know, we know what Cuba with Castro and how that's ran. So there's not a lot of like training and they were good at doing something and they were able to get out and do it and have created success. So that being said, there's a lot of people that are pretty far behind the curve when it comes to marketing in this industry. Like it's still very very old school. So I would argue almost every cigar company is vintage just in their thinking. So when vintage isn't cool anymore, cigar companies will start promoting vintage, right? Some are moving. What's it? What's it? Cohiba, right? Where the Chinese came in, bought it, and like quadrupled the price or something, and are now selling it as more of a premium even though it's the same thing. And that's that's a marketing thing. Um, with mixing the mixing old with the new, right? >> Yeah. And that doesn't affect us in the US. It does in Canada because the Chinese bought the whole Cuban market. So, they own that that side of of Cohiba, not the US. There's two separate kind of evens. You have the Cuban and the US. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What What's the typical cigar smoker? Is it You mentioned earlier it's usually a bunch of dudes. I mean, there's a few women in the space, but it's usually it is usually male. Is it typically a more successful business person? Is it the good old boy? Is it a mix? I think someone told me once they What's the guy that we met in uh at Monte Cristom at the big >> Raphael? Noell. >> Raphael. He's like, "Yeah, the average smoker. it skews higher income like 200,000 or something like that or um he was giving us some some stats on it. What what's who's typically the target demographic for for the average stick? everybody there there. I don't see a t now if you're talking about typical target demographic for David off who tends to be higher priced and yeah you're looking at you 150k plus a year income blah blah blah but just for cigar smoking in general I I see everything from a guy that just turned 21 and he's excited to be able to go into a cigar lounge to and that that works part-time at Walmart um and this is his one cigar a week that he gets to enjoy and it's his splurge to the guy that can go buy a box of $300 a piece cigars and not even bat an eye. it. That's what I love about this industry is you have the multi-millionaire, you know, billionaire sitting right next to the the kid that's washing dishes at the local, you know, Chili's and they're having a great conversation and you actually can watch in a lot of these times that younger person gaining knowledge and wisdom from the older individual. And the older individual who's successful typically is gaining some humility and some other, you know, other parts that he needs um in his life. And so you're seeing the two feed each other, but I I can't say there's a I mean I I see them all. I see >> that's what happened. >> Yeah. I mean I see a guy come in humidor and I'm like, "Hey man, if you buy 10 of my cigars, I'll give you two for free." And he's like, "Man, I just I can't afford more than two right now." I'm like, "Dude, no problem." Perfect. to the guy that's like, "Well, what happens if I buy a hundred?" You know? >> Yeah. I give you more free, you know. >> You get four. >> Yeah. >> But I, you know, I'm curious about the quality versus price ratio. So, you've got these cigars that are $10, you know, right up 300 bucks. And, you know, are they worth it? And Kevin and I have talked about this a lot. Is a $300 cigar worth it or, you know, can you get $20 cigars that are awesome? Uh, what are your thoughts on that? >> Well, Norm, it's a is a year of the dragon better than a little $10 stick. >> Well, I like my $10 sticks. >> You like the Year of the Dragon when you're not paying for it at my house, too. He really liked him a lot. >> What do I think? >> Thank you, Sarah. May I have another response? >> The the answer to that is is really actually quite simple. Um value comes to the consumer, comes from the consumer. And so if you get more joy out of that $300 cigar than you do out of that $20 cigar or that $10 cigar, then yes, it's ab absolutely worth it. Now, me personally, have I smoked $10 cigars that are 10 times better than the $150 cigars, you know, whatever. Oh, absolutely. Like, so to me, in my mind, the price doesn't dictate how good a cigar is. However, your pallet's different than mine, Kevin. You know, you guys, each of you guys pallets are different than mine. And where are you finding your enjoyment? And where are you finding that value? That's what I love about this is we're buying a product that's to be consumed. >> So, is the steak at your local Denny's or whatever your local, you know, inexpensive restaurant is, is that as good as the steak at Ruth Chris that you paid $300 for your meal versus $20, right? Like some would argue that Ruth Chris is way better and I would probably agree with them, but some people like their local place better because the experience or because of whatever they get from that, right? They walk in and they say, "Hey, Norm, welcome back, buddy." You know, do you want the usual? You know, and that makes that steak better. So, it it really is I get asked that question a lot, but there's a reason why, you know, like I find the acid cigars to be just repulsive. But that doesn't mean that I got to bash people that smoke them, right? And that and I'm happy that people are enjoying the industry with us and they're smoking the ass. Even if it's an acid cigar, they're still smoking a cigar. They're still joining a conversation. Just don't sit next to me and ruin my cigar. Okay, that's all I ask. >> What? How Nor and I have just sat there and done the math. You know, typical cigar takes 30 minutes to an hour to smoke. um you know depending on the size and the number of things but 30 minutes to an hour is let's say it's a $10 or $20 cigar the margin on that I'm assuming is keystone I'm assuming they're paying about 10 bucks for that um to sell it for 20 or you correct me if I'm wrong but let's just assume that um that take and someone there that's not you typically don't drink as heavily when you're smoking cigar you might have a whiskey you might have something there but someone could send spend three hours taking up a chair in a lounge and and potentially spend 50, 60, 70 bucks. And the turnover in those lounges, some of these lounges, like in Austin, they freaking close at like 7 o'clock at night or 8:00 at night. It's not like Tampa where they're open at till 1. It's ridiculous here. You can't finish watching Monday Night Football. Um, so, um, but doing the math on that, it's like, how are they actually making money? Is it It's got to be people taking cases or regular customers coming in. They're buying their supply from them instead of buying online from one of the mail order houses or something. How what can a cigar business actually a decent lounge, not your mom and pop, but a decent lounge, what can it turn over in sales per year and what what kind of margins can it actually make? >> Um, the margins could actually be pretty it's funny because you're asking a cigar shop owner and they'll just complain. Uh, but their margins are far better than what I was making with the mechanic shop or some of my other businesses. Um, it's going back to like the lounge concept, right? And is there is there value in the lounge? Um, you know, are they are they profitable in the lounge? No, it's a loss leader. U it's I don't think McDonald's makes money on the play place by the time they, you know, they have the expense of, you know, expanding the building, putting in the play area, cleaning the play area. If they do, >> you know, the maintenance, all that stuff, it they don't make any money for the play place. But that's not the point of it, right? That's an attraction. It's a added value. It's a thing that's given. It's a loss leader for them. And much like the same way that that's how cigar lounges are. It's a place for you guys to go and for all for all of us to go to have conversation, to build a relationship, and then the the majority of the money is made on the guy coming in and buying and leaving. And at the end of the day, if you can have a lounge, and some of them operate this way where there's just there's nowhere to sit. You come in, you get your crap, and you leave. >> Canada. >> Yeah. And we have that in the States, too. Like some of our lounges after co they never reopen their lounges other than for you know special people or private events or whatever but they never reopen because there's not a profitability in there unless you're serving alcohol and then that seat has a profitability. But um you know the best way to make a million dollars in the cigar industry is to start with two million. And it's if if you're if you're not going to be a business owner, and I think that's what sets my brokerage aside from a lot of other brokerages out there, >> is that people got into being a cigar broker because they thought it would be fun, not because they saw it as a business, as an opportunity to run a company, to do marketing, and to build brands. You know, it's going to be fun to drive around and smoke cigars. So, I treat this like a company first, and then I get to sell something that I enjoy. But this is a business and my business is relationships. And the widget that I sell for those relationships or to those relationships is cigars. And so it's a different level than where most people come in and they go it's cigars or this is my retirement. It's a place I can avoid my wife. And you know it's it doesn't work that way. And you might make your your money to fund your lifestyle, but you're not going to grow and become large. I think I heard a stat that if you're doing over a million dollars a year in the cigar industry um or in the in a cigar shop that I think you're in the top like it was five or 10% I can't remember of all shops in the country. >> Wow. So that uh when I go into a cigar lounge when I go into just uh a tobaconist and I check out their humidors I don't know how they turn over their inventory. So, I know in our business, which is in e-commerce, we want to constantly turn over our inventory to make money. And we've talked about it, like Kevin and I have talked about this, but you know, where where do you make the money? Because there's so many different brands. >> People are looking for top brands. Usually, they're usually big bucks. If they're keying it, there's a ton of um cigars and I'm sure there's spoilage, too. you know that uh if if they're not rotating the cigars or if they're too close or too low uh to the top or to the bottom. I mean, there could be some spoilage there. I'm not sure, but it doesn't make sense to me that you can have that big of inventory and still make a profit. Like, how do you turn over the inventory? You know, the the ideal is to turn every 30, you know, you want to look at your 30, 60, 90day rotation. And the problem is most of these guys don't. So, they the I could tell you this right now, and I'm not trying to bash all these guys, but this is really how this industry works, man. It is so just archaic. It it blows my mind. Some of these guys actually have systems that like I I have a whole CRM system to operate my company. like all these things that these other guys are running off of like Quickbooks and and note cards, you know, and I'm like, h how do you how long has that cigar been on the shelf? And and so when I walk into a store and they go, oh, that box is half full and I don't have a backstock. Okay, I need that. Well, what if that was the only box and you bought it three years ago and it's only gone through half the box in the last three years? Why are you reordering that product? >> Yeah, >> but they have no clue because they they're they're not marketing. They're not following. They're not They're just kind of blind. A lot of these guys go into this thing blind and they just go, "Oh, I got some money at the end of the month. Cool. Let's buy some stuff." You know, it's just it's not a lot of these guys are not operated as a business. Now, the guys that operate as a real company, they know what their their burnthrough rate is, no pun intended, but they know what their burnthrough rate is on these cigars, and they go, "Oh, that one hasn't turned in 90 days, so let's try a different size or a different line. Let's blow this one out. let's get it out, recover my money, and put something else in its place, you know, or hey, Mr. Rep, or hey you, hey, Brandon, what can we do to help move this product along? We need to get it in people's hands. And a lot of times I walk in and I say, you brought the product in and you put it in a bottom corner where nobody sees it. Have you told anybody about the product? Did you put it in a primary placement for a while? What is taking up your primary space? Is it Oliva and Padrone that you can put behind the toilet and people will still buy it? you know, and then you're wondering why patina isn't selling. Well, it's your placement. So, let's try moving it here and see if that changes. So, it's, you know, my job is to get in and help these guys to operate their companies you with my brands. I went into a shop the other day, not the other day, it was a couple months ago, and he says, "Oh, yeah, your West Tampa line, man, it just stopped selling. I don't know what happened. All of a sudden, it just people were buying it. We were reordering and now all of a sudden we're not I haven't ordered in a while." So I said, "Well, let's go in the humidor." And he had moved West Tampa brand down a shelf and put something up where it was. And I said, 'How's this brand doing up here? And he goes, "Man, people can't get enough of it." No, no kidding. So, let's do an experiment. Let's switch them back and then tell me how that brand's still doing and how West Tampa is doing. A week later, the guy calls me and orders four boxes and he's like, "Man, it's doing really well." And I said, "Are you telling people about it? Are you giving it good placement? Where are you putting it? And the dead spot. So, we just found a dead spot in your humidor. That's where you need to put the product that people are looking for or the product that you don't really go in and promote. The acid cigar, the Padron, the Oliva, and nothing against those companies, but they have huge marketing budgets and people are looking for them. Why are you putting them in your primary spots? put the brands people haven't heard of in the primary spot so you can turn those brands because you're not doing me any good by ordering from me and not reordering it. I don't get paid until the third reorder. Like I get paid but like I I'm losing money until you reorder at least three times because the time spent to get that there and all the stuff that we've gone through needs to be recovered in a within the next couple orders and then we're starting to make money together. Hey, Kevin King and Norm Ferrar here. If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits, thanks for listening this far. Continue listening. We got some more valuable stuff coming up. Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player. Or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify, make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of The Marketing Misfits. Have you subscribed yet, Norm? >> Well, this is an old guy alert. Should I subscribe to my own podcast? Yeah, but what if you forget to show up one time? It's just me on here. You're not going to know what I say. >> I'll I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair, too. We'll just You can go back and forth with one another. Yikes. But that being said, don't forget to subscribe, share it. Oh, and if you really like this content, somewhere up there there's a banner. Click on it and you'll go to another episode of the marketing misfits. >> Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm. >> Is there some rule or tradition in the cigar industry that you deliberately break? >> That we that I deliver what >> that you deliberately break or go against? Is there some like uh good old boys uh custom or rule or something that you actually like, no, that's old school. We're going to do it this way now. Uh we're going to we're going to market it this way. We're going to position it this way. >> Something where you're going against the grain and going against the conventional wisdom of the industry. >> You know, it's that's a very interesting question because I feel like actually what I do is I go I go back to basics. So, I go against the current grain, which is actually the correct grain. I feel like everybody today is currently going against the grain and they're trying to, you know, oh, another limited release, another limited release, and how do we get people excited and another limit? It's like, bro, you haven't even spent the time to build your core brand. Why are you coming out with limiteds and thinking people care? So, let's go back to basics. Let's build the relationships. Let's get into what this industry is about. Let's find creative ways to make this happen. How do I build brands without me being in the store? You know, and what creative things can we do? And we find those those ways. And that's what the old school way was. I mean, Norm, you've been smoking for a while and you've probably been to some cigar events. And what if you showed up to Big Smoke? So you guys are both there and you show up to Big Smoke and it was nothing more than a bunch of just sad people sitting behind a booth, which don't get me wrong, there some of them are there, but a bunch of just mopey people sitting behind a booth going, "Well, here's your cigar." Or you showed up and you just got a bag of cigars and you walked around and had no experience. It was just cool. I got my bag and now I got to go find out what to do with the rest of my life. But there's not. There's a live band, there's booze, there's food, there's an experience, there's, you know, you come to my booth, I'm talking crap to you. You know, you're handing me five tickets, I'm trying to give you four cigars to mess with you. Like, I try to give an experience to make you smile and enjoy yourself and and that's been lost in our industry and we need to get back to that because that's what people smoke is the memory more than the cigar. >> And that what Red Phone booth is doing in Red Phone booth kind of trying to make that speak easy experience. So, it's not just Isn't that something that they're kind of trying to do? >> Yeah. And there's some great companies out there doing that. I I would argue here in Phoenix, we have Fox Cigar Bar. And he's got two locations. He's building a third. You see them online, they give a great experience. You know, you walk in, you're welcomed. They have liquor, the clean location, Ashtray is clean. Like, it's an experience. Um, and that that's that's what guys want. We we want to smile. You know, there's a thing called u smemory, believe it or not, and it happens in the cigar industry, and what it what it does is it's kind of um unique is that you could be on your holiday, have a cigar, come back, and you've probably heard about this, Brandon, you know, quite a bit, but it's the best cigar I've ever had, and then they take it and they smoke it outside their balcony just after business and they can't believe it's a different cigar. They don't like it or it's just nothing like they remembered. And it's because the cigar that you smoke a lot of the time links to the memory and the experience of where you're at. Could be the exact same cigar, but all of a sudden that completely changes. >> Yep. Yeah. One of my favorite cigars I've ever smoked was a cherry flavored cigar. Now, I just got done saying I don't like flavored cigars, but it's one of the first ones that I smoked and it was with my best friend and we were on the side of the lake and we had jumped off the cliffs into the water and he was getting sick because we bought really crappy cheese to put on our burgers that were undercooked and like there's this whole experience of being a dude and we're smoking these cherry flavored cigars after the guy that sold them to us sounded like death walking. I mean, the guy's hacking along and I'm like, do we want to really get into this, dude? Like, this guy's dying and selling us cigars and that whole experience came into that cigar, right? So, I smell that cherry flavor in the air now, and it reminds me of it. I'm not going to go smoke a cherry cigar again. But I'll tell you this, there was a a moment a couple years ago. I was representing Espinosa Cigars and uh we're out in our sales meeting in Miami and one of the days we go to Guy Fiiet's house in Miami there and he's got this beautiful home and backs up to the water big boat dock and we're we're hanging out in his backyard and you know we get there and he's like ah this is your house guys like I open up the garage there's beers in the fridge go help yourself and it's like no rules like just respect the home and you can go wherever you want right this guy Fiieti bro like, you know, just his hair is a big deal. And, you know, I'm sitting in the guy's backyard and Hector Alfonso, who does a lot of the blending, most of the blending for Espinosa, takes a box of cigars out, cuts the the, you know, the the um the sticker on the front, opens it up, and puts it in front of me. And I'm a big Connecticut smoker. And this is the knuckle sandwich Connecticut, and it's not released yet, but it's in the final packaging. It's in the box. And Hector the blender is opening it to me and I'm looking around. I'm sitting here with Eric Espinoza, Eric Jr., Jack Torano, Guy Fiieti, you know, Hector Alfonso in this beautiful backyard and I'm like, he's like, would you like to try one? I'm like, dumb question, of course. So, I grab the first cigar out of this brand new box that nobody's ever smoked, and the rest of the sales team smokes them, and Hector looks at me later and he goes, "What do you think of that cigar?" And I said, ' Hector, all due respect, that could have been a dog turd with a freaking band on it and it would have been fantastic. Like, I'm sitting here reminiscing of my history in this industry and I'm in this space right here. Like, I never pictured I'd be with Eric and Jack and they're in my phone and they're friends, you know, cuz when you're new in the industry, these are rock stars. And I'm I'm with Guyetti. We're talking about tattoos and it's not like this like weird awkward. We're homies. We're, you know, hugging. were taking pictures and it can't be a bad cigar. So I said, "I think I need five more." And he goes, "Oh, of course." And I go, "No, I need to smoke one after my dog bit me. My wife yelled at me, you know, like somebody cut me off in traffic. I need to make sure this is a damn good cigar." Because it's a damn good cigar, but this environment is completely affecting it. And that's one of the best cigars I've ever smoked >> because of that memory. And it's still a damn good cigar, by the way. >> Yeah. No. And one of my favorite brands as well. Yeah, >> I I it's the top of the hour, but I got one last question, and it has to do with selling into uh large companies like General. Uh General's one of the the big conglomerates out there. They own a ton of cigar brands. Now, are you allowed to sell brands into like if I go to a general cigar cigars international, which is General, are you selling into Cigars International or do they just carry their own brands? I'm just curious. >> No. So, so General might own them, but they're still a cigar lounge, right? Um, and so there are a lot of brands. Kasakario is carried by Cigar International and Kasakario's Kasakaro. They're not owned by General. So, they still treat their stores as a store um and as a as a place to move product, but um yeah, we could still sell the brands into their stores. General themselves is not going to buy it, but Cigars International is a subsidiary of General will buy that for their stores. >> Ah, all right. Very good. >> Yeah. >> All right, sir. I got one question for you or we have one question for you at the end end of every podcast. Do you know a misfit? >> I know tons of misfits. >> We're always looking for a misfit to be on the podcast. >> I I should have asked you this before if you want another cigar industry guy or not, but um I Yeah, I know some great misfits and um but I could definitely I could definitely refer you to some great people in the cigar industry that um I think would be a hoot to have on your show and talk about a little bit more in depth than what I know. And uh one of them would probably I was just talking to him the other day and on a separate podcast with him, but if you want to get into some nitty-gritty depth of what's really going on in Nicaragua and all the distress and everything that could be affecting us in the cigar community, um Daniel Lance has started a new cigar brand in the last year. Um, and he is a fantastic just a plethora of information um that that you could pick a brain on and you need a three-hour podcast, but he'd be a great one. >> Oh, very good. >> Norm, you got to get get Brandon uh and those listen those listening as well as Brandon, we have a WhatsApp group. You want to tell them about that, Norm? Uh, for cigar smokers. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, Brandon, I didn't mention this uh when we've been talking back and forth, but uh we had a very successful uh collective mind society event. Uh we do it every year, but uh this year was about cigars. And one of the things that we learned was just like at every uh every lounge we go into, there's this cigar culture that comes out of it. And everybody came in not knowing anybody. And everybody over that four or five day period ended up becoming incredible friends and there was a lot of business opportunities. So we asked everybody what they would want at the end. It's not us, it was them. And they said, "Let's get a WhatsApp group going where we could have the virtual cigar lounge. We can have the share a smoke." So it's just what you're smoking and then events coming up and then indepth like uh cigar tasting uh cards and reports. So, um, if you're interested, I'll shoot you over the information. And anybody else that's listening, it's just called the cigar boardroom and it's on WhatsApp. >> About 36 people or something in there right now. >> 36 people in there right now few weeks ago. It's but it's very active with people sharing smokes and talking about stuff. It's It's pretty cool. >> That's awesome. That sounds great. >> Yeah. And how do people get a hold of you if they want to get in touch with you? So, I'll start off by saying this. In in the in the cigar world, I can't sell you cigars directly. So, don't get a hold of me and ask me to buy cigars. Okay? You don't carry a tobacco license, I'm not talking to you. But, uh, as far as cigar sales, but um, you can reach me on Instagram, uh, cigar mechanic, and you'll see my logo there. Um, we also have, uh, well, I have a YouTube channel that I never check with Cigar Mechanic. But um if you want to catch me also one of the good places lately has been my other YouTube channel which is called Voodoo Monkey Garage. And that's a another business that we're building where we do the custom cars and classics and how-to videos on automotive in the Voodoo Monkey Garage is another great place to catch me there. >> All right. Very good. All right, sir. Well, thanks for coming on and don't forget we're going to put you in the waiting room. Don't click off. >> I got you, brother. Thank you, man. Thank you guys very much. I appreciate the opportunity. Appreciate. >> All right. Thanks, Brandon. >> There you go. >> There's a lot of lessons there that from the cigar world that people listening, if they're not into cigars, can actually apply to their business. You know, the community aspect, the the experience aspect, creating experiences around your product. Uh there's a lot of really good lessons that can apply to anybody in business that came out of that talk. >> Yeah. You know what's uh interesting is there's one person in particular that uh uh he private messages me messages me uh from time to time saying you should stop promoting cigars. It's not good for you. And I hope it came across today is that you know you do whatever you want but something for us and it it's it's some of our greatest ideas and some of the greatest people we know have come from sitting down and just talking having a cigar. And you know, you have your own opinion. And I know there's a lots of you out there that have that opinion, but uh you know, I'm not saying just go out to a cigar lounge and try a cigar, but try it. You might change your mind, you know. >> Exactly. >> Or next time you're maybe out at an event and you see us, come and join us. You don't have to smoke, but come and join us. Have the rest of the experience. Uh and you're welcome to do that as well. >> All right. So, that's it for today, sir. >> Yeah. Something else you're welcome to do is uh subscribe to this podcaster and we have a new episode that comes out every single Tuesday. We also have about 90 or 100 or so uh over the last couple years that you can go back and listen to. Some really, really, really great guest. Uh how do they do that, Norm? Well, we got a few ways. So, first of all, you can go over to YouTube and you can listen to the long form video of uh Marketing Misfits podcast. Or if you just want clips that are uh little nuggets uh from every clip, three minutes and under, you can go back to YouTube and go marketing misfits clip clips. And you can also target uh Tik Tok. We got a bunch of uh uh clips on there as well. Uh whatever you like, whatever your favorite is, uh we got you covered. Uh so I think that's about it for today, Kev. >> I think so. Uh have a good rest of your day, everybody. and we'll see you next week. >> See you in the lounge, Kev. >> That's right.