Get a FREE Sales Tax Assessment for LIFE

Get a FREE Sales Tax Assessment for LIFE Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Chew on This. Today's a special episode brought to you by Kintsugi. And we have the CEO and co-founder Poojan here, who's actually going to be talking to us about what's going on in the world of knowing your unit economics, actually leveraging debt and how to do it properly. And actually what's going on in this macro economy, because he gets to have a bird's eye view on thousands of brands that are dealing with tons of different issues when it comes to this economy. So first of all, Poojan, thank you so much for joining us, coming all the way from the West Coast to come and spend time and give our audience ton of value. For the few people that don't know you or didn't get to catch the other episode, give them a little bit of your background and what's Kintsugi? Speaker 2: A little bit about me. I was born and raised in India, represented India in International Math Olympiad and I'm a gold medalist. My life changed after that. I finished my undergrad in one year, graduated top of my class at Georgia Tech. I was a PhD student at Stanford in the CSAI department and then was the first machine learning engineer on this product which was called Facebook Stories. Now it's called Instagram Stories, WhatsApp Stories. By the time I left, We were ranking 30 billion times for people around the world because they use Facebook so much. Four billion people opening it at least eight times. It's crazy. Yeah, so a nerd through and through. Love math, love data, love computer science. Speaker 1: And sales tax. Speaker 2: Yeah, very unsexy product. But like, look, what Kintsugi does is we put your sales tax on autopilot in seven clicks and three minutes. We have built an AI tool that analyzes, calculates, like files and remits the right sales tax amount for your business in real time. Speaker 1: Before we get started, here's a quick word about today's sponsor, Kintsugi. Tax compliance is the last thing you can think about as growing a brand. At Obvi, we put it off for a long, long time. Until we crossed into 20 plus states and got hit with filing requirements we weren't prepared for, it finally started to become a serious liability that we cared about. That's why we started to use Kintsugi. Their platform automates everything. Nexus tracking, filing registrations, everything that you need to do in between, so we're never caught off guard. If you're scaling fast, don't wait until you're scrambling like we were. Check out Kintsugi's free tier at trykintsugi.com and get ahead of sales tax before it becomes a crisis. Now, let's get back to the episode. First of all, we're obviously power users of the tool, but more so putting the tool aside, I think just the amount of leverage you guys gave us for being a lean team and to be able to rely on something, I think it's super exciting. I think one of the really interesting pieces about you being in your seat, right? Not also just being a CEO of a tool like Kintsugi, but actually building the tool. You truly understand the problem that we have at hand and then you get to see that problem across a lot of these businesses. So what I want to jump into is there's this paradox when it comes to growth and brands. You can grow a lot, but things almost become worse when the problems do arise. And like, you know, but when you're smaller, it's almost like you have more problems, but they're smaller, just naturally. Give us this, give us this paradox from your view, right? And what does it really mean? And how do you see brands navigating through it? Speaker 2: Just like any other brand or any business starting out, right? There are like 100 problems that you could focus on. And we pick three, we pick our battles. And I see this time and time again, where a brand just starting out, they're focusing on sales, they're focusing on branding, they're starting to focus on ads. And suddenly, you know, the rocket ship takes off. And at that point, people are like, I've captured this lightning in a bottle. I want to run as quickly as possible, because this is my moment, before Facebook changes their algorithm. Or Google Ads does something or God forbid there's another tariff change. And so I've seen a bunch of really cool brands just become overnight success. But then comes the slump of like, hey, I took shortcuts when I decided to work with this agency or I decided to address this keyword or I decided to come up with this messaging. And one of the pieces that I get to see a lot is the back office or the lack of back office automation, because these brands become overnight success. They hit that like 10 million, 20 million, 50 million dollars, and then these paper cuts start to hurt. And that happens because now these brands, for lack of a better term, they're big fish. And when you're a big fish, everyone wants the piece of the pie of the revenue you're generating. So places like Florida and Texas have dedicated teams who will do, look at the most up and coming brands and people who are hiring a lot, who are, they have all these internal tools that they work with these marketplaces, who's the hot new brand. And they do an audit and they're like, are they compliant on payroll? Are they compliant on sales tax? Are they compliant on like accounting? And that's where I see a lot of people Especially like people who are passionate about what they have built struggle on these unsexy, non-revenue generating things that every business has to deal with. Speaker 1: That's a great quote. You know, I think that also reminds me a lot of like the shift into how brands look at capital, how they're measuring debt, how they're looking at working capital. I mean, Ravi, maybe it'd be good for you to kind of explain even just Our situation, right, where when it came to looking at some of these numbers that we were looking at, we're like, hey, revenue is looking good, growth is looking good. And you start to scale certain parts of the other things, which is ordering more inventory, right? We start to become a little bit more looser with cash because it's coming in. And then you kind of hit a wall one day and you're like, wait, we had one slow week and like, now things are rough for everything. Give the purview from your end, being in the finance seat, What do you kind of look at and say, holy shit, now we got to go and think about all these solutions. Why does that problem come so quickly? Speaker 3: One thing that stands out is like when we started to really scale and we were managing our entire supply chain on Google Sheets, I remember we were closing the books and our accountants came to us and they're basically saying like, hey, like, The inventory balance that we're telling them we have just based off, hey, this is what we have in our 3PLs and this is our COGS, this is just what it should be valued at. They're saying that's not what we're matching up with when we're seeing, hey, how much inventory did you buy minus how many COGS or cost of goods sold did you sell throughout the year? That should be the remaining inventory. And there was over a six-figure discrepancy there. There was a six-figure discrepancy. And I remember like, you know, that was kind of like our oh shit moment where it's just like, okay, we need to automate everything on our back office. We can't have things just be so manual. Because when you are like now in a position where you are scaling, these things, they do come up, like these big discrepancies come up and they can be a major loss or write off on your P&L. Then you have to report that back to the board and it becomes, you know, this whole can of worms that you've opened up. I remember also one thing that was pretty interesting is when we prior to Kintsugi the partner that we were with. I think we were talking about it is like they don't look back, like more than maybe like 12 months at your state tax account and. For Wisconsin, we have our 3PL there. And maybe to your point, maybe it's Wisconsin just becoming, you know, a bit more forward on like auditing businesses, or maybe we had scaled past like the threshold and now we got flagged, or maybe just the partner, maybe this was always an issue and the partner never caught it, but we got a letter from Wisconsin saying we owe them taxes from 2021, 2022, 2023. And I was like, and I was like, what the fuck do we owe them taxes for? And I sent it to your team and I'm like, I thought you guys were on top of this. And you're like, do you have a physical location? And then I'm like, yeah, and they're like, ah, that's it. That'll be it. And it's just like these little tiny nuances, you know, again, whether it's like you just now have too much inventory in that state, or maybe it's just you have grown to a size where the state is now you're on their radar. Yeah, these things just come up. And I feel like If we don't have professionals and expertise to lean on and it's suddenly just on our internal team to manage, you're bound to make mistakes. You're wasting so much time trying to learn it where it's such a huge blessing just to be like, hey, this is a scary letter I just got from this state's Department of Revenue. Let me just send it to you and then you just now make me feel better about it. Speaker 2: The whole trust me bro does not go far. It works in certain industries but I think like taxes and numbers that comes and bites you. You're absolutely right. You know, like there has been change in rules. And even the states, just like, you know, brands are facing the heat of like, where do we generate revenue to fix our roads, to build up the infrastructure? And so now they are deploying all these creative like solutions of being like, let's go audit every company that sells in my jurisdiction and see if they're compliant or not. Speaker 1: It's crazy. Speaker 2: It makes sense. Speaker 1: They're a business too, right? Speaker 2: Exactly, right? Speaker 3: And I think even getting more accurate down to the detail, you were mentioning different product categories are taxed different ways, right? So I'll be mainly a supplement brand, but you could go on and buy a hoodie, you can go on and make Maybe get a free frother or a shaker. And those are taxed differently. And I think if you're just putting like a blanket like here, 7% for this entire state, you're not only just collecting taxes wrong and filing wrong, but you're probably like filing too much. There's probably a lot of savings there, which even if you're now charging your customers less, probably a little increase in conversion rate there too. So that whole like just not handling it correctly when you do scale and like you start to see volume, it really makes a huge impact. Speaker 2: I could not have said that better myself. One of the key unlocks that we had with AI is our Kintsugi AI product classification system. As soon as you install our app, we know what you sell. We have the description, you're selling it on any ERP or the Shopify's or Magento's or BigCommerce or WooCommerce, wherever. We are able to go in and pre-approve your products and say, hey, this is the best classification for you. And oftentimes when people are moving away from different platforms or they're moving away from manual, you know, doing sales tax, They're like, your sales tax numbers are actually lower than what we pay. Why is that? And we are like, so here's a fun crash course. We can get you all these exemption certificates. We can help you solve this, this and this and move these things around. And essentially, because you're selling these hoodies, but yes, you're a nutrition company, but what you were doing was you were doing a lump sum thing. So this whole trust me bro doesn't work. We actually like, Open, like, and look behind the curtain and we do things right. And with that transparency, on average, it's not just like one to two percent. On average, we save customers like three percent in their, like, profit margins. Speaker 1: Incredible. It's insane. Speaker 2: Because two ways. One is paying the right amount of sales tax to the government and number two, passing the right amount of sales tax at the time of invoicing to the end customer so that it doesn't come out of your profit margins. Right. Because if you're playing it loose and you're running as a startup and you're doing like 10, 20, $50 million in revenue, that 3% is huge. And then again, sales tax, unlike other taxes, needs to be paid monthly. So that's money coming out of your bank account on the 15th. Speaker 1: And I think this is a really, really interesting point because I think this kind of It brings up this point of there's so many of these hidden expenses that are killing you because you should be boiling everything down to unit economics. Whether it's an overhead cost or it's a fixed cost or it's a variable expense or it's sales tax, at the end of the day, you can really boil down things to What does this really make you? You sell one of these things, what are you really making off of it? Maybe touch on, again, your purview on this, which is there are so many hidden costs. There's compliance costs, there's fees here, there's transaction costs, there's platform fees, returns, chargebacks, et cetera. What are the ones that are crippling? What are you seeing that maybe brands are most often the most nonchalant about but that are very important? How should brand founders think about their unit economics when it really comes down to it? Speaker 2: Yeah, I was not even gonna bring up sales tax, but your question is actually like, just has like sales tax written all over it. And I'll walk you through my reasoning why. Like, number one is like really understanding your supply chain, right? I see that time and time again, because it's a chicken and egg problem. When you're a startup, you can't afford certain things in your supply chain. You can't afford like redundancies, you can't afford The branding that you want. So you start somewhere and then you improve, right? Just like any business, iteration always wins. So I think the best thing I've seen people to do is they come up with these like revenue milestones of when I hit this, I'm going to go back to the drawing board and I'm going to level up and I'm going to look at whatever my cost is. So I see that with exceptional founders and brand owners, What I don't see them is cleaning up their books because it's again captured lightning in a bottle. I know that I need to get compliant. I know I need to keep my books clean, but I'll do it when I'm thinking about selling a brand. I'm going to do it when I do my next fundraise. But what ends up happening is, especially with sales taxes, you become, before you know it, you're selling all across the U.S. or all across the world. And then all these government agencies Come and they start like biting on your ankles, right? You're trying to run. You're saying bold. You're like, I have found a way to make all the money that I could and create something that is mine. And then you're slowed down because everyone's like, you did your Wisconsin return wrong. You did your Florida return wrong. Hey, you have sales tax or VAT obligations in Spain now. And I think I see a lot of founders, especially the more passionate ones, getting so disheartened because then they, you know, the chickens have come to roost. And now you have to pay all these like fines and penalties. But because they did not level up their compliance fees, they never collected that amount. So you can't go and like the government is not going to take an answer of like, hey, I never got compliant. So I don't have the money. And they'll be like, OK, I'm not allowing you to do business in the state. Yeah, done. And now with the click of a button, they can turn off your sales in a particular state. Speaker 1: Not so true. Right. No, great, great. Speaker 3: I've noticed like you guys also do a great job because like when you when we did on board with Kintsugi and you found A million things wrong with what we were doing. We got a lot of penalties and interest accrued. And I remember just like working with your team and I'm like, we're not really gonna have to pay all this. And they're like, you know, we're gonna talk to each state. And basically, I think the conversation basically goes like, hey, like this is a startup. They didn't realize they were incompliant. Now that we've caught it, we are going to make efforts to become compliant. And I'm pretty sure you guys waived like, if not more, more than 90% of like the interest and penalties. I don't recall really having to pay a lot because you have that conversation, maybe those like close, you know, networks with these guys. And yeah, I mean, that was a great experience for us to onboard. Speaker 2: Yeah, so look, I'll put my nerd hat on and like, I come with this unique experience of both my grandfather and my father worked in this in the field of like sales tax. And one of the things we realized is, number one, the states are not trying to like screw you over just because you made a mistake. And number two, they realized that The system is set up in a way where 99.99% of businesses are bound to fail and bound to make a mistake. What people do not realize is, you know, everyone says they put like sales tax on autopilot. I know of like four other competitors in this space. I'm sure there's like 14 other. But one of the things we do differently is because we have multi-channel attribution, we have 360 view of your revenue, whether you're selling on Amazon or Shopify or wholesale, we are able to download all of that report And all states offer something called as voluntary disclosure agreements, where we basically hide your identity, and we go to the state on your behalf. And we say, hey, I'm not going to tell you which business I'm representing. But they realize they fucked up and they want to draw a line in the sand and they want to say we are going to be doing the right thing going forward. But with that, we want you to waive all the penalties and only pay sales tax for the last three years or maximum four years. Some states have the four-year clause. But if you accept this agreement, You're not going to charge me any penalty and plus you're going to give us, you're going to waive the right to audit us ever. And that is something that if you were to ask a CPA to do, they would charge you $8,000 a state to do. Speaker 1: Yeah, like a lawyer. Speaker 3: Yes. Speaker 2: Do you know how much we charge at Kintsugi? On our premium plan, we charge $0. And we do it all in-house. And that is why it took us like, unlike other Trust Me Bro companies, it took us a year and a half to build this piece. I quit my job at Facebook. And like, look, I'm an immigrant. So I became a guest lecturer and a student at MIT and then later at Harvard and did sales tax by hand for 10 different brands for a year and a half. So before writing a single line of code, because again, I've said this before, everyone says that they are doing sales tax on autopilot, but ask them the questions. Are they doing registrations programmatically? Are they doing it in-house? Are they doing filings programmatically and in-house? Do they support exemption certificates? Do they support voluntary disclosure agreements? I am happy to say we are the only company in the world that does all of this in-house. So our full-time employees, not contracted out. So when you came up to us and you were like, Poojan, I get it. This is correct, but this is a lot. We were like, we have a solution for that. We'll take all our reports, which are broken down to transaction level. And we worked with the states and states are like, yeah, I want them to be compliant. Because this is money sitting on the table for future cash flow. And you're not telling me the identity, so it's not like I can go after these people, right? Speaker 1: So they're like, yeah, yeah, amazing. Incredible. Speaker 2: Yeah, but they realize that like, you know, it needs to be a solution. Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah. Speaker 2: And, and look, like, I think it always comes down to You do business with other people. And people who are working at these like government agencies are people, right? So they want to find a way forward. And they have given us the tools. It's just that it's boring as fuck. And it's not sexy as marketing. It's not sexy as increasing top line revenue, right? Speaker 1: No, you made a great point. At the end of the day, I mean, we all chalked some of this up to like just numbers and machines. And at the end of the day, there's still somebody sitting on the other side saying, hey, I'm going to say yes from now. That's super powerful. And again, I think To be able to build something with intention, I think is really, really important. Because if you don't build your tool with intention, then my brand that I'm building with intention is not getting the best. Let's take a quick break to talk about today's sponsor, Kintsugi. Sales tax feels like an annoying distraction, but it's a liability that can undermine your brand's future if it gets out of hand. The problem is this is not just an issue that you can solve in your sleep. Understanding the compliance policy for all 50 states ...is almost impossible. At Avdi, we weren't sure where we owed, what was due, or what we might be missing. It was a mental load that we carried constantly. Kintsugi took that off our plate. Now, we get one clear dashboard, smart alerts when we're approaching thresholds, and no more guesswork or last-minute filings. If tax compliance is living rent-free in your brain, take it off your plate and go to TryKintsugi.com today. Now, let's get back to the episode. You know, I want to pivot into a little bit around what's going on in the growth world in terms of, you know, when it comes to marketing from different channels. You have Meta, you have TikTok, AppLovin, Google, Snapchat, everything under the sun. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: There's traffic coming from everywhere. There's sales coming from everywhere. People are trying different funnels, landing pages, different types of creative, etc. And at the end of the day, you basically have this point of, you get to, you go home and you'll be like, all right, well, where did everything come from? And it kind of feels like this, you know, when you take a jigsaw puzzle and you take out all the pieces and you gotta be like, all right, where do I start? And you're just putting pieces together, see if they fit and make sense. I feel like that's where attribution sits today. I know from your guys' perspective, again, having such a large view on so many brands, I'd love for you to maybe give us any input that you see of why is it so complex? Are there ways to think about it differently? And then what tips and advice do you have to brands that are dealing with this problem day to day? Speaker 2: That's a great question. The way I would think about this and the way I categorize this is you should be thinking about running actually several mini companies of sorts. One for like, okay, I'm running ads on Google. This is my CAC, this is my CAC payback, these are the keywords I'm buying, this is what is performing well, this is not performing well. Okay, with those Google landing pages, where am I directing that traffic? Because again, sales tax comprising roughly 6% of the unit economics, would depend vastly different on are you selling on a marketplace? Is this an Amazon play where they're like charging and remitting sales tax or is this a Shopify play where you have better profit margins versus are you directly going to sell on TikTok shop where they're like taking care of everything because they're trying to grow? Oftentimes I see people just get inundated with data and then they try to create attribution versus what I suggest people is anything and everything that you're considering should be its own silo that should be viewed as, hey, this is one of the levers that I can turn where I put in cash and I print cash, right? And there's a ratio associated with it. And yes, there are mathematical models, but at the end of the day, you put in cash, there's some multiplier, hopefully that multiplier is more than one, otherwise you're losing money. And oftentimes people don't realize that there are specific channels where they lose money. Some channels are more seasonal, right? And you print money. So I think from an attribution basis, keep your data clean. Just keep your data clean, have a good hygiene of like, What is directing to what? The next pieces get into the habit of saying, how is Brand X doing on Amazon versus Fair versus Google versus TikTok Shop versus Snapchat versus Meta. NoisesXYZ. Oftentimes people also do not turn on retargeting, right? You can have a pixel that can follow when somebody lands on your website and you can set up like different campaigns in a way where you're not optimizing conversion but you're optimizing brand awareness, right? So like look, dealing with data It's boring. But if you crack that nut, that will change you from being a business that, you know, maybe caps out at like $20 million, $50 million in revenue and actually go to $100 billion plus. Speaker 1: Right? That's great, great, great point. I think you break that down really, really helpful because I think a lot of brands, including us, sometimes it's just get caught up in trying to clean up the data after the mess has been made. And I think you have to almost create a point where, hey, as a mess is getting happening, you're cleaning up. Speaker 2: Can I tell you a funny story? Speaker 3: Yes. Speaker 2: There was a customer of ours, still a great customer. They kept on asking for all these features and I kept on like taking these features to our CTO Jeff and he's like, hold up. What's going on? Why are we building this? Because this does not make sense. We should be building more of like XYZ. And turns out prior to using Kintsugi, they had never seen all their data, all their like wholesale data, Amazon data, Shopify data, TikTok data, WooCommerce data sitting together. Speaker 1: Wow. Speaker 2: So the first time they logged in, they were like, This revenue number is super high. And I'm like, no, that's your revenue. And then they called in the controller. And they were like, yeah, that's the revenue. These are the breakdowns. And they're like, can you build all these different things for us? Because they're like, you actually have the cleanest form of data. And I'm just like, so, you know, Kintsugi is the art of like, Bringing broken pieces together with gold and joining them with gold. And I think the way we see ourselves is we don't see ourselves as a sales tax company that is applying tech to it. We see ourselves as a data company, which is solving sales tax, but there's so much more that we can provide from our platform to people, right? Which is why we actually offer our sales tax like exposure analysis for free for everyone. It's like, guys, I could care less if they use Kintsugi versus A, B, C, what have you. I do not want people to fall into this trap of like, hey, there's a tariff explosion now that's happening. And they need to, like, forecast cash flow and somebody comes into the room and be like, hey, are you compliant on sales tax? Because I have been in conversations where people have legitimately, like, not slept for, like, three days. That happened a lot in, like, April and, like, May and then in June. And they just, like, started bawling. They were like, I'll have to, like, I cannot make this work. Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it's scary. In that explanation, you said the T word. Yeah. And you know, I think tariffs have been looming. I feel like we haven't gotten too much impact from it. Yeah. Yet. Speaker 3: Yet. Speaker 2: You never know. Speaker 1: Yeah, you never know. Yeah. Things can happen while we're recording this pod, right? Yeah. Give us the viewpoint from your end again of like, How brands are handling this in different ways, how you maybe are also working with brands to be just conscious of becoming a little bit smarter on how you're thinking about things and whatnot. Because again, you guys are, like you said, which I really liked is you're here to create solutions for brands starting with data. And I think when you understand your data, you understand what to do next. So give us a little bit of color on this tariff situation from your view. Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, maybe I'll say something that might rub people off the wrong way. Speaker 1: That's okay. Speaker 2: I think the key differentiator that I see between somebody who is running a good brand versus a great phenomenal brand in the same category is actually how close and how neurotic they are about their data. And how often are they going through the data to basically say, What is working? What is not working? What can be improved? Where do I need to double down and where I do not need to double down? And this is so much more important right now where cash is king, especially in e-commerce world where like cash is tied up in like, you know, inventory, cogs, supply. Because I think First time like brand owners, they see success and they try to run and they try to improve the top line. But imagine that they have a leaky bucket or a bucket with holes and nobody knows how big each of the hole is. So yeah, you could increase your top line revenue with $5 million. I wish that for all our customers. But Do you understand what your cash machine is? And that is what differentiates somebody from like truly exceptional brands who are gonna outperform in a crazy market. Because if you think about it, unfortunately there are gonna be brands that are gonna go out of business. But that means customers are not gonna stop buying, right? So there's more opportunity to sell, there's more opportunity to grow. So that's number one. Number two, I think like, being iterative, oftentimes people just think, hey, these are my three levers that I'm going to control. But it's like, I don't know if you either one of you play video games, right? Speaker 1: It does a lot. Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker 2: But just like any RPG, right? At every level, as things get harder, you unlock a different tool set. Oftentimes people just they become victims of their own success because they don't realize that these like boring mundane things is where they can actually unlock 2%, 1%, 0.5% but when we are talking about like a 50 million dollars that 1% could actually afford you the entire inventory Um, for a brand that is maybe doing like $5 million, right? So it's, it's that piece of being like, I need to be very tight about my numbers. Speaker 1: That is a, that's a really, really brilliant explanation. I think, um, I think so much of what we all do is going through the motion of just worrying about what's next. Um, I don't think enough of us stop and worry about what we've gone through. Speaker 2: And I get it. Like, look, starting a company is exceptionally hard. Starting a brand, making it grow, it's like your own baby, right? And oftentimes you're just busy with like feeding the baby, changing the diapers, getting enough sleep and be ready for the next day. But you got to think about Okay, what are the next three things I can do to level up this baby and set my company up for success? And more often than not, I see like, you know, Facebook algorithms are ever changing. Google is ever changing. Same with TikTok. But if you can control your unit margins, if you can convince yourself and look at yourself in the mirror, And you can say, if I put in $10 on this channel, how much money will I get? If you can get to that core, you don't need any kind of degree for this. But if you can get to that number, that's your superpower. And then no one can take away your business from you. Everything else, you can automate, right? Speaker 1: I love that. I know we're going to wrap up here soon, but I want to do one more series of rapid fire. But this time I'm going to do true and false. True or false? MCA loans can kill businesses. Speaker 2: True. Speaker 1: True or false, we are in a recession. Speaker 2: True. Speaker 1: True or false, if you're a retail focused business, you don't need to worry about sales tax as much as an e-commerce business. Speaker 2: False. Speaker 1: Explain that one. Speaker 2: When you're in a recession, everyone is looking to get their piece of the pie, right? If you're like a retail business, and especially if you have brick and mortar, if anything, there's no way for you to figure out, you're selling the product and you know where the customer is coming to buy the product. If you're not compliant, the states, when they need revenue to build the roads outside, They're going to come knocking and they know where to find you. That's great. Speaker 1: Great, great point. I appreciate that because I was thinking about that as we're progressing, but you make a point. It's not just about you and your little ecosystem. Speaker 2: No. Speaker 1: It's about the world and the impact you have on it. Poojan, again, excellent, excellent episode. I think you have a knack on helping people understand how they should think about the problems they need to solve. Again, I love the fact that you came and nerded out with us. Leaving something else with our viewers would be really powerful. One thing to chew on, one thing to take away, one thing you want someone to apply to their business today, what would be that one thing? Speaker 2: Do not live in fear. I think there's a lot of fear about, hey, I'm not gonna figure out how this affects me because if I don't look at it, it's not, it's gonna magically disappear. People do that a lot with sales tax. They do a lot with like accounting, with just running a proper business. And I am yet to meet with a brand or a business owner where they do not regret that in the future because it always comes and bites them in the butt. So it's always good to know. And I think one of the core tenets and I think the biggest core tenets about Kintsugi is we always will deliver more value to our customers, even before we collect a credit card information. So I love that. Just even if you're like, I will never get compliant on sales tax, go connect your data and see how much you owe. Because eventually when you want to sell, when you want to raise, when you want to do anything with your business, Death in taxes, you can't avoid them. So I'm not going to sit here on a high moral ground and say everyone should be compliant. I personally think that people should be compliant and run a healthy business. But don't bury your head in the sand. The world right now is a very chaotic place. And the best thing you can do is arm yourself with the data. What is working? How much do I owe? Where do I owe? How can I get ahead of it? I love that. Speaker 3: Chew on that. Speaker 2: If you want more from us, follow us on Twitter, follow us on Instagram, follow us on TikTok, and check out the website chewonthis.io.