EP #287] [ENG] - How to scale your brand on TikTok - Rafay MH

EP #287] [ENG] - How to scale your brand on TikTok - Rafay MH Unknown Speaker: Welcome to The Ecommerce Lab By Ecomcy. This is the place for everything related to Amazon private label and e-commerce. Learn exactly what you need to start or scale your business. Get insights from the top industry experts who will discuss the latest trends and best practices in the world of Amazon. From choosing products and sourcing from a supplier to setting up your Amazon account and marketing your business, you will hear it here. Let's get started. Here is your host, Vincenzo Toscano. Speaker 2: Hello, guys. Welcome to another episode of The Ecommerce Lab By Ecomcy, the place where everything related to Amazon, FBA, pro level, and e-commerce. My name is Vincenzo Toscano, founder and CEO of Ecomcy. And today we bring you a special close partner of mine, Rafay, from Optik, which is, I would say, the top consultancy out there when it comes to helping brands succeed on TikTok. And TikTok has been such an interesting conversation the last couple of days. We saw over the weekend how people were, you know, running like chicken with our heads, like really figuring out what is going to happen to my business. All my sales were coming from TikTok. On my traffic, but thankfully, a few hours later, we got the good news that TikTok is back. And I strongly believe this is the year where TikTok is really going to go to the moon when it comes to, you know, social commerce. And that's why I wanted to bring Rafay today to the podcast, because I know there's a lot of things you have to know as an Amazon brand or as an ecommerce brand when it comes to how to succeed on TikTok. And that's going to be all about today's conversation. So, Rafay, welcome to the show. How are you doing? Good, man. Thanks for having me, bro. Pleasure, pleasure. Thank you so much for being here. I'm super excited. I'm sure this weekend it was very stressful for you, but I'm sure now you're back on track. So, yeah, tell us a little bit about you, like, of course, the Uptick, which is an amazing company that you have with Graham when it comes to supporting brands on TikTok. And then we go with the topic. Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean, firstly, it actually wasn't as stressful this weekend for me because I want everyone to listen and hear this part out because I think it's super valuable. Everyone is obsessed about TikTok and TikTok shop because it's amazing. I'm going to talk about that, obviously. But the most important thing about what TikTok is demonstrating is the rise of social commerce. People are preferring to purchase from people that look like them, right, and talk like them and aren't All glamorous like they're on Instagram. And that's why it's so powerful. And so I wasn't that worried, to be honest, because nothing's stopping the social commerce wave. TikTok was just the boat that was leading it. I'm grateful that it's back, of course. But yeah, it wasn't as stressful as it was for maybe some other businesses. But a bit of context for me. I used to be a grade school teacher and my wife and I built our own brands and we exited those and Since then, I've been building out, I've built out external marketing systems for aggregators. I've been playing around in the TikTok space since almost four years now. We have a bit more than four years. So since 2020, driving traffic to Amazon because I knew Amazon at the time. And just this is before pre-ad platform, pre like TikTok shop, obviously. And then from there, it's just been being driving traffic consistently from TikTok and then building TikTok shop. And now we're here. Speaker 2: Awesome. Love it. Love it. Yeah, I agree. Like, I will say this pivotal moment in history when it comes to, you know, potential TikTok getting banned and then see how the whole world reacted is 100% approved that, you know, is definitely a platform and a marketplace as well that is impacting a lot of people's lives in different ways. And the reaction that we got effectively shows that You know, TikTok is here to stay. So I'm very excited to, you know, have this conversation today around, you know, what are some of the things people have to be aware of, you know, some of the basics. And then, of course, we can talk about what are some of the real world implementations when it comes to TikTok that Amazon sellers can start in, you know, taking action into. So I guess let's start with the basics, because a lot of people When they're, you know, having the conversation about TikTok, they really struggle to understand why they have to essentially implement TikTok as part of the strategy. Like they really struggle to understand why I should only focus on Amazon or why shouldn't I only focus on my website and now TikTok has to be part of the strategy. So I guess let's start with the foundation in terms of what is the importance of having a presence on a platform such as TikTok and what are some of the things you have to understand in terms of how the platform works in the first place. Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I'll answer the first question, like why should you even focus on TikTok if you're an Amazon seller? I think Amazon sellers need to realize that when they've launched a product on the platform, they're fulfilling existing demand. So if we think about a funnel from top of funnel awareness, so that's a customer who's not even aware they have a problem. And then you have middle of a funnel where somebody is starting to be aware of the problem. Maybe they're vaguely familiar with the solution and then bottom of funnel solution aware they're searching and ready to buy. That bottom part is Amazon buyers. So they're solution aware. They type in, let's say, a reusable water bottle. That's the example I use all the time. Type it in. They're not just looking at your product. They're looking at all your competitors' products because they already know that they need that solution. Leveraging something like TikTok will allow you to get the customer top of funnel, which means before they're even problem aware, you get to get in front of them. And when they do decide to buy, when they type in, In Amazon, they're not going to be typing in reusable water bottle. They'll type in your brand name, The Ecommerce Lab, reusable water bottle, and then that's where they're going to actually find your product. And by getting top funnel attention, which is 97% of your potential buyer pool, 3% is the buyer ready, 97%, your competitors aren't targeting them. And that makes your competition on the platform over time, Amazon, the platform over time, irrelevant. Speaker 2: Yes, I agree. I think some of the things I've figured out when it comes to TikTok and some of the results we've been seeing for some of our clients is that the beauty of TikTok as well, first of all, is that It allows you to tap into audiences that sometimes you are not able to tap in when it comes to Amazon. But the second thing is what you're saying, like the experience that they get through the platform in terms of, you know, maybe their interest around, let's say, a water bottle, right? And then they have this interaction around a very engaging piece of content, TikTok. In the first place, that's what will create that effect of going to Amazon and search for your brand. And effectively, that kind of behavior on Amazon, we have seen that has created a huge amount of positioning exposure that your competition is not going to be able to leverage. And then the game starts to become only focusing on keywords, which is what most Amazon sellers do, to actually build an actual brand, which I think is going to be pivotal to really help those brands achieve that kind of status. Speaker 1: Oh, 100%. Because when you're driving traffic off a top funnel awareness like TikTok, Look, you'll end up increasing your branded search. Like, let's use the reusable water bottle example once more. Why would someone buy that? Well, one reason could be because they're eco-conscious. They don't want microplastics in the water. That's one pathway. But another pathway could be, hey, they're hikers and bikers and they want to make sure that they have something sturdy that's on them. And another angle could be you're traveling often and you don't want to have one of those collapsible bottles. You want something that looks sleek, that fits with your kind of aesthetic as you're traveling. These are all different cohorts of interest for that exact same product. And on one Amazon listing, it would be very difficult to attract those people. And so if you can get them from all those interest cohorts, all pointing to your your Amazon listing, your competitors aren't doing that. And the amount of sales and the amount of branded searches that increase because of having a presence on that platform, like eventually no one will be able to catch you, right? Speaker 2: Exactly, yeah. I would say another thing that people bring to the table when it comes to TikTok is understanding for which type of product this will be the most effective. All right. Some people might say, oh, I feel maybe TikTok is not a right place for me because my price point is very high or because my type of category. So what is your take on that? Do you feel that specific process based on your experience, like maybe TikTok is not a place for it or based on your experimentation with your brands and clients, you feel like there's a place for everybody? Speaker 1: It's definitely not a place for everybody. So I think those people that might think, hey, you know, my product's not there, they might be right. But these are the filters that I use. And as you're listening to this, you guys can apply the same filter for your product or any brand you're thinking about launching. The first filter out of those three is, is your product demonstratable? Can I show it being used, like the water bottle being opened, the little land, the silicone bottle, bottom like that? Okay, cool. It's demonstratable because it's visual, right? It's a video-first platform. That's one. If it passes that filter, awesome. The next filter is, can you visually share a transformation? Is there a before and after? So if it's skin care, you can see like, you know, it's dry now, it's not, or even you're using plastic bottles and it's all crunchy in your bag, but now you have this, you know, metal bottle. Now you see the transformation, right? Or if you have a sleeping pill, you're, you know, You can't go to sleep in bed and then you have a restful night's sleep. It's visually demonstratable, right? There's a transformation of before and after. So demonstratable transformation before and after. And the last piece, and this is the most important one. If you don't have all three of these, it's going to be very difficult. But this third one is, is your passionate audience On that platform, is the problem space that your product lives in being discussed on that platform? Not for being sold to, but just being discussed. If you have those three, you have a very strong chance to make it work on TikTok. Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say the first one actually is something I always make sure every single time I'm going to launch a product or consulting for people that want to validate a product, I make sure it's part of their kind of product behavior in the sense that Every single time I'm going to launch a product on Amazon, I make sure that the product is very easy to demonstrate on camera and can be easy to find on camera and you can do a lot of lifestyle videos and things that people would engage because sometimes having a boring product, don't get me wrong, I have made a lot of money with boring products, It lacks the social commerce side of things. So effectively, if you launch a product that doesn't have that factor, automatically you're cutting one of the legs that you could proactively leverage to have more traffic and more exposure as a product or brand. So it's very good that you mentioned that. I would say the other thing I would like to briefly touch on is on the audiences. I think, to be honest, that's the beauty of TikTok. As I briefly mentioned at the beginning, I feel like with TikTok, and maybe you can build on top of that, you sometimes end up tapping on audiences that are just not on Amazon. They're just not on traditional DTC sites or Facebook or a platform. So what has been your experience with that? Have you noticed that sometimes you're able to tap into avatars that just like to interact with TikTok, and that's why you're able to have the edge over your competition as well? Speaker 1: For sure. I mean, the way I'd answer that would be take a step back. The customers prefer to buy where they prefer to buy. And if they have a Prime membership and you're on Amazon, but they see you on TikTok, they'll probably search you up on Amazon and buy there because, you know, why would they pay for shipping, right? But there are a large pool of people that either choose not to buy on Amazon or they're getting, you know, the free shipping, all the amazing promos and coupons that TikTok has for TikTok or even on Shopify, right? You're sending them there. And so, yeah, there is that pool. I think more importantly, it's not just the Like a segment that you won't be able to tap on elsewhere because that's true. But more importantly, you're able to find ways of communicating your product that you yourself would never have thought of because you're working with so many creators. You're trying so many different angles that you get a very unique way of communicating about your product that you just couldn't get on any other platform because it doesn't require that level of producing creators and angles. And I think that's even more valuable. Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think something else I would like to mention when it comes to that is when it comes to TikTok, which connects to some extent the fact of audiences and everything, I feel to really use to create an engaging kind of momentum on the platform, you need a lot of content that will also relate to this kind of avatar, right? And the reason why I make this quick intro to what I'm going to ask next is because a lot of the concerns when it comes to TikTok is people really struggling to understand, you know, how a content is a pivotal part of the success that you have on TikTok. Like, you really need to make sure that you have, you know, good pieces of videos and engaging kind of material that will make people hooked with your product and therefore take an action, either from an interaction point of view or making approaches of the product. What I wanted to ask you regarding this is how do you feel people that don't have experience when it comes to creating engaging video? Maybe they're not good on camera or they just don't know really how to convey a message around why the product is better than the competition. Get used to this because I feel in TikTok if you don't really do content, you're going to struggle. Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean, there's three things that I want to pull from there. I think the first thing is if you're a successful Amazon seller, you've been able to successfully launch in the existing stream of demand because you're fulfilling existing demand. People are searching for your product, right, with keywords or search terms. But what you haven't achieved, you've achieved product market fit there, but what you haven't achieved is product content market fit. How to visually and effectively communicate your product's USP and value. In that short form format. So that's step one. So how do we do that? Like, what is the way of doing that? Well, obviously we need to create content or get content created so that it's effectively communicating it. I always say that lowest and easiest, the lowest hanging fruit or the easiest on-ramp for brands starting on TikTok is to work with existing creators who have the skill set of already creating, engaging, converting content. Because like, I'm not a content creator, you're not a content creator, but not in that way, right? And so why waste our time? We're trying to build this as fast as possible. And so work with those creators first so that they can create enough content until something hits. So then you can be like, oh, I'm starting to achieve product content market fit. Now I have an example. Now every other creator I work with is going to be given that example. Then they're going to create more. And now you have all this stuff to be able to model your own content if you want to create it yourself or hire internal creators. So that's the second piece that I wanted to say. And the third piece is that everything is downstream of views, of course, but people think TikTok revenue is luck. It's not. It's actually an equation. It's the same equation every single time. So TikTok revenue equals views times CTR, which is click-through rate, times conversion. I'm going to say it one more time. It's views times CTR times conversion. If you don't have views, you can't have CTR conversion. So if you are a brand that wants to ride the social commerce wave to take advantage of TikTok, you need to get your product in the hands of creators to create as much content as possible so you can achieve product content market fit and get your product out there. Speaker 2: I love it. Now, when it comes to finding these creators, that's a very interesting conversation to have because I feel at the beginning when you're getting started with TikTok, it can be overwhelming to figure out which influencer is the right one for me because Let's be honest, there's a lot of influencers out there that they might have sometimes millions of followers, but the audience is not really warm or it's not really going to be the same level of engagement that you need to kick off compared to micro-influencers, right? So how do you come around this situation when you're getting started and you really want to make sure you can maximize your dollars into working with the right influencers? Do you apply certain filters? Do you use certain tools? Where is your take on that? Speaker 1: I think it depends on where your conversion vehicle is. If you're driving from TikTok to TikTok shop, it's a completely different approach. So I'll do that and I'll do TikTok to Amazon. So if you're driving from TikTok to TikTok shop, there's so many tools out there that you can literally see which creators are driving actual GMV, actual revenue for adjacent brands or direct competitor brands to you or brands in the same niche. And so I would use that. So some of those tools are either CableData, there's FastMoss, there's ShopPlus. They all basically do the same thing. And they allow you to see what affiliates are creating content, what that content is, how much in a revenue they've driven. And then that's your startup list. You could find 2,000 in one afternoon to start reaching out to. So that's the way I do it if I'm driving from TikTok to TikTok shop. Driving from TikTok to Amazon, it has to be a bit more specific here because what you're looking for here is somebody who is an Amazon influencer or Amazon associate. Their account has consistently driving traffic to their Amazon storefront and their audience is aware of that. Plus, if you're driving from TikTok to Amazon, you need to have a paid budget immediately on the side to put behind any piece of content to get it going out there faster. You don't have to do that as fast or as often with TikTok to TikTok shops. Speaker 2: Cool. And some questions I'm sure people are going to be asking themselves now. Is the quantity of curators you have to work with? Because I'm also aware to some extent that, you know, when it comes to TikTok during the momentum of traffic, it's also about putting enough pieces of content out there to create that momentum. So is there maybe A minimum amount of creators you'd recommend to work with or this is very, you know, tailored toward the type of niche because some people might say, do I need five influencers? Do I need ten? Do I need to put five videos per week? Ten videos per week? How do you come across that balance to understand what is the right number to maximize, you know, the exposure you can get on the platform? Speaker 1: Great question, man. That depends on the category you're launching in. So I'll give you an example of a real extreme category and then one that won't require as much. So let's take supplements, for example. I think it's top one or two of the most competitive niches on the platform, and it's absolutely popping off, as you know. And the brands that are launching in this competitive space, they start launching It's not how many creators they're working with. It's more how many pieces of content are being shuffled, pieces of video are being posted per week. And they start anywhere from 100 to 150 shuffled posts per week. So that's the volume. If you're in the supplement space, it is what it is. If you want that hockey stick, that exponential growth on a platform like that in a competitive niche, that's baseline. But let's take something not as competitive. Let's say you're selling I'm a home and household items, maybe an organizer or something like that. I would start with at least 30 shuffle videos per week and then scale that up. And you could get one creator to create 30 shuffle videos, right? Or like three to create 10 each. Speaker 2: Different angles, different backgrounds, you know. Speaker 1: Exactly, exactly right, exactly right. So, but I'm a massive fan of letting the data dictate to me what is a benchmark for me to hit. So what I do is the tools that I mentioned earlier, I find products that are either exactly the same as mine or very close competing products or adjacent products serving the same avatar. And then I'd go historically from when they launched, how many shuffle videos, how many lives they had, how much ad spend they did month on month. So that creates my average benchmark. I'm going to at the very least hit that. Speaker 2: Nice, okay. Now another question I wanted to ask you to pick your brain on this is when it comes to TikTok, you know, a lot of people want to also understand how does it work when it comes from the marketplace side of things, right? Because, you know, the conversation can always be on both front. It can be how do I maximize my revenue on TikTok, which is making sales through the platform, or how do I actually use TikTok to generate traffic to send to Amazon? That's where I make my revenue. So with the conversations you're having on a daily basis with other brands, what do you feel is usually the approach you take, at least at the beginning, is focusing on building first revenue in TikTok and then focusing on awareness that could eventually go towards Amazon? Or you would say you start with both at the same time and see which one starts to get more traction? What do you usually prioritize when it comes to? Speaker 1: It depends on the risk profile of the business owner, right? So if this is a brand new product that's launching, if you're creating a brand new product, I would make sure that you have those three filters built in already. You know, it's demonstrable, before and after transformation, passionate audience on TikTok. And I would focus on TikTok, but have an Amazon listing set up there, you know, based, like obviously just optimized, but nothing crazy. Because again, people prefer to buy what they prefer to buy. Now, if you're already an Amazon seller, and you're established, then it obviously makes sense to just focus on TikTok. The reason why both those answers are focusing on TikTok is because you're getting the customer before they're ready to buy, before they're looking at your competitors. And when you're able to convert them from problem unaware to solution ready to buy within a 45 second video, the leverage on that is, you know what I mean? It's crazy. Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. And now when you're getting started on TikTok, let's say, I mean, of course, you're going to start with zero followers, you're going to have essentially a brand new profile. Like, do you recommend always, in this case, going back to a conversation with creators to create all your exposure with that? Or if you as a founder actually enjoy creating content to also combine that with some organic content that you post yourself within your profile? Like, do you see that also creating a To some extent, some good momentum in the long term, or you feel the fastest way to grow on TikTok is usually the creator way, which is paying creators to do content on your behalf. Speaker 1: The brands that grow the fastest on TikTok and TikTok Shop leverage all three traffic levers. So we have borrowed traffic, which is working with influencers slash affiliates. We have paid traffic, which is obviously ads on TikTok, and then owned traffic, where you create your own content on your own branded account. I always recommend, even if you're mainly focusing on creators, to at least have five to seven pieces of content posted on your TikTok. Run a follower campaign, which is called a community interaction campaign. You can get followers for 10 to 15 cents. They're not quality followers, by the way, at all. It's much better than looking at zero followers, or at least a thousand. When an affiliate looks at you, they don't think, okay, this person is not on this platform. They're not taking it seriously. They have zero followers or three followers. They're like, okay, you're legitimate. But the most important thing and most exciting thing for brands who are taking top of funnel awareness seriously is if you create content consistently on your own account, then what that will do, this is not buying followers, this is just creating content that's relevant to your space. What that does is it creates a lookalike audience for TikTok to start pushing affiliate content that you're working with, you know, the influencers and creators you're working with here, push with that lookalike audience as an initial map. And so you end up getting in front of the right audience faster because you're providing additional data to TikTok as a platform. So it's just, yeah, it's a no-brainer, no-brainer. Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. And I think that factor of the first impression is very important. I agree. Like if I go to a profile to buy something from a brand and they have no content of their own or no followers, that's definitely a red flag to some extent to me. So yeah, you need to make sure that first impression is there. Cool. Now, going back as well to ads. You mentioned ads and this is something I haven't touched on. I briefly want to tap into this. Tell us a little bit about the foundation and how ads work on TikTok because I know that's a bit different than other platforms. So tell us what are some of the things you should know when it comes to that. Speaker 1: I think unless you've achieved product content market fit, you shouldn't run ads on TikTok because you're going to be wasting money. Because creatives, like on meta, I don't know if you've ever run ads on meta before, but you could have the same picture or the same video and it could run for six months, one year, two years and still like printing, which is great. TikTok isn't like that. Creatives exhaust maybe two weeks, 21 days if you're lucky. And so you need to be really dialed in on that before you start putting ad spend behind that type of traffic. Now, if you have a lot of Shuffle videos being posted and you're posting it from TikTok to TikTok Shop, then you can run what's called a GMV Max campaign. What that does is TikTok collects all those creatives and then it just shows the one that makes the most sense for the customer who they think exactly is ready to buy. And so that can be quite profitable, but it only works when you have a certain amount of Shuffle videos that are posted. So I would say if I were someone new starting, I would say work with affiliates and creators first. Get some organic content on your own owned account. Get a few pieces of content getting organic traction, then create variations of that to run for ads. Cool. Speaker 2: And for these creators, do you recommend using the connector kind of approach within TikTok itself to find these influencers and creators? Or you recommend also other platforms where you can find TikTok to do like a private contract approach with them? What is your recommendation when it comes to working with creators as well? Speaker 1: If you're driving from TikTok to TikTok shop, those creators are getting inundated with tens, hundreds of messages every single week. And so if you're a brand new product, you have no sales on there, they're not going to want to listen to you or pay attention to you, especially through the affiliate center. So you can identify them for sure, but then find their email, find their LinkedIn, DM them on Instagram, create a retainer so that they can create multiple pieces of content, not just one in exchange for the product. Because for that creator, it's an opportunity cost. They're like, okay, if I'm working at this brand new brand that isn't going to, I haven't got any sales, my ability to get commission is low versus this other one that's blowing out. I need to make that choice. So you need to make the deal sweet enough for them to work with you. And over time, all that effort you go to get those creators go out there, they end up coming to you because now you're getting sales and then you'll be able to do just, you know, product for post commission relationships moving forward, no retainers. Speaker 2: Cool. Now, let's jump a little bit into, you know, mistakes to avoid when it comes to TikTok because we've been talking about strategy, the foundation, everything, but I'm sure there's a lot of mistakes people do that you'd see every single day that, you know, it's definitely affecting their growth on TikTok. So what are some of those things that you say, I really think people shouldn't be doing that when it comes to TikTok? Speaker 1: I think when you're on TikTok, driving a TikTok shop, people Let's start with the lowest commissions. Like they'll go 5% or 10%. They've got zero sales. Like no one's going to want to work with you. It's a different platform. And so kind of dovetailing with what I said last, you need to make the offer sweet enough so that the affiliate wants to work with you. Because if you can solve the affiliate's problem about getting regular income and having an opportunity to create, get commission in sales, then they're going to solve your problem, which is, you know, being on the platform and making money from the platform. So that's mistake number one. Mistake number two is most brands will launch every single product of their suite on the platform. Don't do that because it takes, and this number comes directly from TikTok, it takes a customer 5.4 times to see your product on that platform before they decide to buy. And so if you have 20 products, the amount of shuffle videos you need is just so much more, right? It just takes way longer. So focus on one or two, the ones that fit those three filters the best. Start with those and push really hard on those and then introduce the subsequent ones slowly afterwards. Speaker 2: Cool, cool. Thank you. Nice. So I guess to come to a closure, is there any last, you know, a piece of advice you want to give to everybody listening this or watching like, you know, that you think you guys really need to implement to have a successful journey on TikTok in 2025? Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean, social commerce is the wave. TikTok is just the boat, the boat furthest ahead on that wave. And so it's not going anywhere. The genie's out of the bottle. People prefer to buy where they prefer to buy. So if I were you as an ecommerce seller, I'm launching two new brands again. So like I'm an ecommerce seller again as well. So this is exactly everything that I'm going to be doing and am doing. Keep your ability to make your product engaging visually, front of mind. Think of attention distribution from the moment you create your product and think how could I get this to be shared without forcing someone to share it for me. If you have that in mind, then word-of-mouth advertising digitally can scale, which is really exciting. And that's what we do, you know, here at The Uptick. We help brands implement these systems like borrowed, paid, and owned into their own business. So they're not just reliant on a third party. So they can, them and their team can understand this internally. And then if they do decide to work with you, done for your agency, at least they know what to look out for and what's actually important. So yeah. Speaker 2: Awesome. That's great, Rafay. So thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a pleasure. And I'm sure people learn a lot from you. And again, I'm sure we're only scratching the surface. So some people might want to, you know, reach out to you, work with the uptake, figuring out how to really maximize their growth on TikTok. So tell us how people can get in contact with you. Speaker 1: Just go to theuptik.com. That's t-h-e-u-p-t-i-k.com. Just fill out the form or jump on a call with myself or Graeme and we can have a chat. Speaker 2: Awesome, Rafay. So it's been a pleasure. Hopefully, I'll see you soon at one of the upcoming events. Let's keep in touch. Yeah, it's been a pleasure. Speaker 1: Thanks, man. Speaker 2: Thank you. Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Ecommerce Lab By Ecomcy. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. While you are at it, we would appreciate it if you could leave an honest rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. That will make it easier for others to find out about the show and benefit from it. Want more? Visit our website at www.ecomcy.com where you can get your first consultation for free or find us on Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn at Ecomcy.