Energy Drinks, Fire TV & the Future of Amazon Ads

Energy Drinks, Fire TV & the Future of Amazon Ads Speaker 2: Hello everyone and welcome back to Better Advertising with BTR Media. Today I have on BTR Media account director extraordinaire Sage Gorby. Sage, thank you so much for hopping on the podcast. Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. This is my first podcast ever. Speaker 2: And you're going to do exceptional. I have absolutely no doubt. I've had quite a few people hop on and they're always like, you know, how do I prepare? What do I do? I'm like, we're just going to talk. We're going to talk about your e-commerce superpowers and expertise. So no concerns whatsoever. That being said, you have an incredible track record in the space. You worked at Celsius and now you've worked for us for quite some time now. Do you want to give us just a quick backstory on how you got started and what brought you to Better Media? Speaker 1: Yes, of course. So I actually started at Celsius Energy Drinks. As an intern and I started when it was a time when there was like seven people on the marketing team. So I saw extraordinary growth there. I grew with it. I ended with Celsius five years later as a senior marketing manager managing the entire e-commerce portion of Celsius. So we worked across 13 different e-retailers supporting their marketing efforts. And then I decided to join Better Media and it was a great decision. I've been here for six months now. Speaker 2: How is it only six months? I know. Speaker 1: I was going to say it feels like so much longer, but like Celsius feels like a lifetime ago already. Speaker 2: That could be good or bad. We'll unpack that later. How many drinks did you have on average, you know, a week? A week. Did you take part in energy drinks? Speaker 1: I was never an energy drink gal until working there. But when I moved to Boca Raton to work in the office, they have like fridges everywhere full of it. And I was up to three a day plus coffee. There's a little bit of a problem. Speaker 2: Again, that could be good or bad, but if we're being honest, I think that's a little bit of what it takes. I remember I have this time hop photo that comes up frequently and it was maybe my fourth prime day and I remember running to the gas station and getting like four different flavors of Red Bull. I had like my go-to sugar-free Red Bull and then two other flavors and I had posted something along the lines of like, it's that time of year again. At that point, I was very heavy, hands on keyboard, updating bids at 1 a.m. because we didn't have incredible automations at that point in time. But sometimes when you get thrown into as much growth as you've had and we've had the last few years, you have to have some energy drinks to get you through it, good and bad. Speaker 1: Yep. You've got to, for sure. Yeah. Speaker 2: Do you still drink energy drinks or do you just stick with your coffee routine? Speaker 1: I just drink coffee now. I feel like I did the energy drink lifestyle for a while and now I'm on coffee. Speaker 2: We're adults now. Now we can just drink our iced oat milk latte, still have multiple of them throughout the day, but maybe we're paced a little bit better. Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. I will bring my Celsius on trips though, the powders. Speaker 2: You did. You actually gave that pro tip on our company meeting this week that we did a roundtable on what is your number one travel hack and yours was there's nothing worse than being on a trip and being exhausted, so you bring your Celsius energy packets, which is a fantastic solution. Not sponsored by Celsius. Well, knowing that you went from a rapidly growing brand to honestly was on a rocket ship and now you're on agency side. What's been the biggest difference of working brand side, working agency side? There's definitely a list of pros and cons for both. What have you really seen that stands out between the two of them? Speaker 1: You know, I would just say the people like when you're brand side, I will say like the retailers kind of almost bend over backward to give you exactly what you want. Um, something that I've noticed agency side is it's not always the same thing, but, uh, all of it to say it's, it actually is pretty similar. I feel like coming from brand side, I am able to empathize and understand what the brands need and, and their wants and what their leadership might want to see. Instead, but overall it definitely all meshes together nicely. Speaker 2: It does. And I think to your point, that's one of the, you've brought so many incredible things to the agency, but your experience working with a brand who grew the reputation that they did, I think was really incredible. And I think one of the first conversations we had had was, you know, just chatting about activations. You know, going to events and handing out free drinks and things like that, and that kind of experiential marketing that you were really leaning into. Now, on the Amazon advertising side, we don't have as much opportunity to do that, but I think that's a lot of the vision you bring to the table when you're working with our brands is, you know, how do you think bigger? How do you create that demand? Rather than waiting for someone to search for you, if you're waiting on someone to search for your energy drink or your protein, it's going to be really competitive. I mean, in those categories, we're seeing CPCs averaging around $5 and that's for good placements. That's not even including top of search. So I feel like a lot of the value you've driven and some of the case studies that have been posted for your brands as well are really leaning into things like TV and things that are creating demand that are giving you an upper hand when it comes to search. Can you talk a little bit about that and how you tell that story to C-suite executives who are maybe incredibly ROAS driven? Speaker 1: Yeah, so something that Celsius did prepare me with is that they had a huge budget, which definitely helped, but I was able to test so many things. And I mean, from everything that Amazon had to offer, I was able to drop at least a little bit of that into my cap and say, this didn't work, this works, this. And with that, I was able to kind of understand and apply that to the brands that I work on now. Something that they don't really talk about too often is fire TV. And I think that is my absolute favorite upper funnel initiative that they offer. It's just. It works so well. It drives sales, which isn't really even an upper funnel thing. It does everything that you need STV to do, but it also normally drives sales. So I just love it. It's my favorite. Speaker 2: Why do you think that is? What do you think the competitive advantage of Fire TV is over a traditional streaming TV? Speaker 1: Well, it's Amazon owned and operated. So the CPCs are much, much lower. So you can reach a greater amount of people for less money. And I'm not really sure I have a fire TV as well. And I just feel like the like what I even get served is so specific to what I'm searching on Amazon. I just feel like the targeting is better suited. Then I don't know what a normal STV ad might be, but they do a really good job and you can buy it on your TV because it's connected to your Amazon account. Speaker 2: That's a great point. Amazon has really cracked the code with relevancy. I think that's what's given them a huge competitive advantage. I see it frequently that brands are spoiled by how good sponsored products perform and this may be the case with Fire TV as well. Amazon's done a great job of taking something traditionally upper funnel, Brand marketing focused on reach and impressions and of course making it a little bit more performance focused and giving you things like the pause ads where you can go immediately buy the product, which is dangerous because again, Sage, to your point, I think what's made you so successful is the test and learn and getting in quickly. The moment something becomes too successful, our team's definitely posting about it. I think more people are going to lean into it. And it's going to become a bit more competitive. So I don't want that point to be lost, that what's made you so successful, what's made others so successful, you know, all the disruptor brands we're seeing in this space, the dude wipes. Elf Cosmetics, I would still say, is a disruptor brand, just judging by their quarterly earnings and how quickly they're growing. The Liquid Deaths, they do things that aren't by the playbook. They test and learn. And I think that that's something that, to your point, is what's made your brand experience so incredible. Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree. And I do think Liquid Death specifically, even with their Super Bowl ad, they just, they do things that are different and it gets people talking and it just, it really is what marketing is all about. I just love it. Speaker 2: Getting people talking. You know, we've heard frequently we're in the attention economy. I think the touch points across your phone and all the digital media, it's overwhelming. So, when you can get people authentically talking about your brands, that is a huge competitive advantage and that requires people to lean into some of these different platforms, the TikTok shops, the upper funnel TV initiatives and the UGC as well has been a really key driver because I think it drives authenticity that customers are craving and maybe they lost a little bit in the last 20 years. Speaker 1: Yeah, I have noticed that everyone is kind of like almost not turned off by AI, but almost craving, you're right, like craving the authenticity that's kind of going away right now. Speaker 2: It's an interesting time seeing, you know, The AI commercials at the Super Bowl, they did not get a good reputation. And it's a struggle for me because yes, AI has a really bad reputation across the board, but it's also unlocked a lot of incredible opportunities for some of our smaller brands. I mean, just yesterday, you posted a graphic and you didn't create the graphic with AI, but you made a small tweak that allowed the graphic to fit into a format that we were needing and the brand didn't currently have. Historically, that would cost a brand quite a bit of money. You were able to get it turned around in, again, less than 24 hours. Your speed to market is incredible, Sage. It's a huge unlock for smaller brands and I hate that customers just inherently see it as a negative and don't understand how it's leveling the playing field and there's got to be a happy medium somewhere that we figure out. Speaker 1: Yes, I am a big user of the Amazon AI creative tool. I love it because I feel like Amazon is going so much more towards video creative and kind of not doing the static image. But most brands, since they're on socials, there's a lot of static images that we should be using. And I've noticed that the Amazon AI tool does take a static image and animate it very, very well. Speaker 2: And that's a perfect middle ground. You don't have to go into Creative Agent trying to get a streaming TV quality output. There's obviously negative consumer sentiment around that and it can take a lot of work. But taking something as a brand asset that's already curated and just adopting it to a new format, whether it is the sponsor brands video or sponsor products video or sponsor TV, all of those easily accessible formats that you can now curate on your own. Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah. Speaker 2: So when it comes to testing and learning, how do you educate the teams that you're working with? How do you get them to lean in on something that might not work? You know, what is their narrative? Because sometimes things don't work and it can cause a negative outlook towards that product or that ad type, especially if expectations aren't set. So what are the conversations you're typically having to overcome that hurdle? Speaker 1: Yeah, and I remember sitting with the CEO of the brand who I was pitching Amazon Fire TV to. And I remember saying it worked really, really well for Celsius. We did great, great things. We were part of the beta. And I honestly just told her about my experience with it. And I also let her know that this is a very different category. It might not work the same way, but I do think that it's worth a test. And Amazon also did a really great deal that it was like we got a bunch of added value if we were to test it. And I think that was what really. set the ball in motion for getting it live, which I feel like they do a lot of promotions for stuff like that for trying their. So it definitely helps. Speaker 2: Absolutely. One, I think the experience that you already had, the expectation setting is an important one. I think that's one that we always try to back into is understanding the differences in the funnel. As well as something that we call the mom test. Gabby, Jeff Cohen, and I were on stage at Accelerate a few years ago. And one of the things that we recommended is sometimes people get too focused on KPIs and metrics. They forget to act as if they were their customer. And we're always like, you know, act like you're your mother. Open up Amazon. Look at the experience. There's a very different interaction between a sponsored product ad and a fire TV ad and really making sure to set those expectations with the C-suite teams. And then also getting into things like stages of the funnel and the path to purchase is not linear. People are exposed to a TV ad and then they see your sponsor brand's video ad. I think that's a really important piece because if they just see the KPIs, they can be turned off by it. They don't necessarily realize that the Fire TV ad is going to influence their sponsor product performance. But then also again, just getting out of the advertising mindset and kind of transitioning to a general marketer mindset of how are customers finding my product and how are they interacting with my brand? A lot of people still miss that piece. Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. And I am the first person to ask my family to actually go look at stuff because I'm like, how does this look to you? Like, what are your thoughts? Because some of the brands that I work on, my sister just had a baby. So I'm constantly asking her questions on the baby brands that I work on. Because she's in it. Speaker 2: Does this resonate with you when you're up at 3am feeding? How do you feel about this ad format? Speaker 1: Exactly. I'm like, how does like, how does this resonate with what stage you're in right now? Also, with a few months ago? How do you feel about this? Speaker 2: I and I think that's incredibly important. You know, baby brand's a perfect example. There's multiple different stages of the journey. And historically, we haven't had the opportunity to connect with a customer throughout each of those stages in a scalable fashion. You know, from an advertising technology standpoint, we weren't able to do it. From a creative standpoint, we weren't able to do it. But now, again, through AI, whether it's AMC audience identification or creative utilization, you can tell a story and craft that customer journey from The prenatals to having the baby in the first three months to the toddler stage, they can all tell a different story. And, you know, it's an interesting place for us to be in because is that perfectly scalable? Not always, you know, to have a very specific story for each stage of the customer journey. But also when Fire TV is as relevant as it is and does such a great job of connecting to the right audience, I think it's a huge opportunity. In my opinion, that is what's made the Liquid Deaths, the Dude Wipes, the Elf Cosmetics so good at what they do is they've identified their audience and they've crafted a narrative for every single person within that journey. Again, not scalable always, but an incredible opportunity for brands that are willing to lean in and test and learn, I would say. Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely. Education is a very big proponent of a lot of brands and I think that that seems to be what a lot of brands normally lack. Speaker 2: Amazing. Well, we've talked about some of the bigger projects I would say you've been working on across TV and upper funnel initiatives and testing learning. Is there any predictions you have for the next 12 months when it comes to advertising in general or any recommendations you would give brands to really lean into to test and learn and take advantage of? Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say I feel like the way that Amazon is going, it's definitely more audience rather than specific keyword and also Just more video than static images. So I definitely think that there's a lot of opportunity with that. Amazon is always learning. Obviously, they know so much about you already, as you can see. Speaker 2: Take all my information so that way my chapstick can be delivered before I know I want it. Speaker 1: Exactly. But I mean, I love it. I personally love being told what I want. The amount of times that I've bought from a Fire TV ad is nothing. Speaker 2: You're really selling me on this. We're going to go put the Better Media assets out there at this point in time. Speaker 1: Yeah. But yeah. Speaker 2: That's a great point and we're actually doing a webinar on that exact topic. It's coming out in the next few weeks and the whole concept is from keywords to audiences and how you take advantage of these opportunities. Traditional search is changing. How Amazon wins the auction from a keyword perspective is completely changing. You can now apply AMC audiences to every single bid boost, which again, not always scalable. You have to have the right teams that are leaning in to really take advantage of these opportunities. Sage, you're obviously incredible at making these experiences happen for our brands. But I think it's important to note that you have to have your foundation first. You have to make sure you have an optimized product detail page. You have to make sure you're still targeting the right keywords and you know what your long-term goals are. Because all of these things are incredible opportunities for brands if you have the right team in place to make them happen. So that being said, I would give a huge shout out to Sage, all the work she's done for Better Media. You have been exceptional. All of the brands that you've worked on have been exceptionally happy as well. If anyone has any questions or comments, feel free to reach out to either of us on LinkedIn. And thank you so much for joining today, Sage. Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. This was very fun.