Creative Optimization and Partnerships with Roku for Amazon Video Campaigns

Creative Optimization and Partnerships with Roku for Amazon Video Campaigns Speaker 2: What's going on, Badger Nation? Welcome to The PPC Den Podcast, the world's first and longest-running show all about how to make your Amazon advertising life a little bit easier and a little bit more profitable. Today on the show, we have Sam Lee from Trivium back on the show, and I'm going to be asking him some questions about the evolution of video. We all sort of start our product pages with static images. Then we add a video for our product pages that we generally repurpose for a sponsored brand video. He's going to comment on how that video changes and evolves and who should be thinking about moving up that sort of discovery funnel onto Online video, so like Amazon DSP, OLV, as well as streaming TV. So I think it's really interesting to hear how these videos can work and cannot work as we take them up the funnel. Let's jump in. Sam, welcome back to The PPC Den Podcast. Great to have you again. Speaker 1: Been a while. Thanks for having me. Speaker 2: How has your Amazon life been for you the last maybe 12 months since I last talked to you? Speaker 1: You know, it's always something new. I think the change is inevitable. So It's like a lot's been going on, but if you asked me at the same time last year, I would have also said a lot's been going on, so it's kind of standard. Speaker 2: I think, yeah, it's- It's not for the faint of heart. It is not. We move fast in this industry. Speaker 1: This is why people like you and I exist. Speaker 2: That's right. Speaker 1: Not everyone has to deal with this stuff. Speaker 2: That's right. What do you think it is about your personality that draws you to Amazon marketing? Speaker 1: I get bored easily. I think that's part of it, probably. I don't know. I mean, I think about jobs like, you know, I like numbers, but in finance and accounting and things like that, their job seems a lot more difficult than mine. And I think the variety and the spontaneity of it speaks to me a little bit. So I don't mind it. Speaker 2: Does getting bored easily, is that the reason why you have a Dave & Buster surfboard? Speaker 1: That's more of the spontaneity thing. It was for reference. I did a human claw machine where they lower you into a, you're the claw, and I pulled it out. And keep it interesting. Speaker 2: Speaking of keeping it interesting, I feel like so many e-commerce brands, they go about their business, they're doing their work, they're growing, they're finding ways to scale and optimize. And perhaps it's just the conversations that I end up having, you know, primarily focused on PPC. But I feel like if I were to step outside of Amazon, I talk to my friends and people outside of Amazon that do a lot of like media on social media. Video is like one of the biggest things that they talk about. And I feel like on Amazon, everyone sort of knows video is important. But I feel like this topic comes up periodically for me, and I think for listeners of this show, where it's like, what's a good video again? Or like, how do I structure this? And like, why is this? What kinds of what kinds of videos are possible? And like, how do we get these made? And like, what are the components of this? And I guess like, before we get into any specifics, Does it all matter? Does the quality of a video, the strategy behind it, what would you say the impact of a really great video is compared to one that is underperforming? Speaker 1: It's incredibly important. And I think that what you have to think about is where is this video showing and who is it being shown to? Because when you think about Video-based ads are as old as any sort of digital ad, really. And it used to be pretty straightforward in the sense of, like, it's mass reach. You're putting out a commercial, for example. How are people going to remember me and remember my brand? There's still a lot of truth to that today. However, now, because we have so much control over not only where the videos show, but who they show to, you have to be intentional with the type of content you're creating for that, right? There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution nowadays. The gift and the curse of this granular type of targeting is that you also need to be intentional with the content based on who you're serving it to. And we have so much data, especially referring to Amazon, we have so much data behind Who we're serving an ad to, where we're serving it, all that stuff. And the people that are doing the best are the ones that are customizing the content to the items, not just creating, we have a video, let's just use this, let's put it everywhere and see what works. Speaker 2: I'd probably say 90% of what I hear is similar to that. We have a video, let's use it. Speaker 1: Exactly. And it might work if it's a really good video. There are videos that have mass appeal and more power to you, but the more powerful videos Because of the targeting that we have in this capability, they're catered to the audience. And even beyond that, they're catered to the placement. Like when we think about a video that's showing on a Sponsored Brands ad that's triggered by a query versus a video that's showing online through Amazon DSP based on the audience or beyond that, streaming TV. It's like different things are going to work for these different platforms and these different people. Speaker 2: Talk to me about like You know, most people in the world of e-commerce, most people in the world of Amazon and marketing, everyone's wearing multiple hats, right? Like a PPC person might also be doing some SEO and also be doing some A-B testing and maybe some price optimization. When it comes to video creation, Like, who are the parties involved? Like, I'm curious in your own day to day, like, where do you come into this conversation? Like, obviously, there's a technical side of like, who sees this video? How much are we spending on it? What's the performance of it? That's sort of like technical marketing perspective. I know there's a whole other world of marketers out there who show up to meetings generally in suits and ties with a vision board talking about the look-feel of a brand and then you'll get a video editor. Who are these people involved? If I'm a brand thinking about leveling up my video game, Who needs to be in the room or at least what roles do we need to be thinking about in that room? Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I would say that the conversations that I've had in the relationships that I've had with brands running video ads that have performed the best usually have somebody that's pretty dedicated to the creative component of things. And sometimes they'll already have, you know, a war chest of video assets and we just have to pull them out and decide what goes where. In other instances, it's about talking to the person that makes these creative decisions, explaining the capabilities we have, and then we tailor content to what we can do. But either way, there's usually somebody involved that is pretty focused on the creative side of things. And usually, you know, they also have say into the social media creative. They have say into It doesn't necessarily have to be someone specific to Amazon, but it is a very specific skill set that's really useful for someone like me who does the targeting side of things to have somebody who I can speak to, we understand what each other do, and then that usually works the best. Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really interesting that you said that. And when that video or that creative person, and I agree with you, a lot of the successful brands that I talk to do have a dedicated Having you to have better creatives every single month, someone's thinking about them, someone's generating them. I think you just mentioned it. You do, like the technical marketer, the person who's like running DSP or thinking of video ads, is interacting with that creative person. And I imagine together, you're able to give them information, they're able to give you information, and you're able to sort of Engineer a really effective video times, you know, video crossed with audience crossed with product performance. Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And what it's about is if that person exists at that company, it's just about making sure they understand really what I do and what the capabilities are and that information they can run with and they can tailor content to that. And again, like not everybody's going to be able to do that. But it's still good to understand if you're going to be creating video content like UGC works in some places, very like product demonstration videos work in other places versus eye-catching ridiculous videos work in others. So it's good to make sure the creatives team understands what the targeting capabilities are so they're not just flying blind. Speaker 2: Yeah, and I would say it's rare to find a One person with all that knowledge, right? So you might understand the technical side of it, right? So because like even now, you know, my experience with video on Amazon is predominantly sponsored brand video, maybe video for the product page itself. I've done very little streaming TV. You can now run ads on Roku. And then, of course, there's DSP video ads that go outside of Amazon into the internet, OLV or online video. And all of those have different formats and styles and goals and performance metrics that you're looking at, I'm sure. So when you go into these conversations, out of those three, Where do you generally see like the most underutilized like where do you see the most untapped potential for a typical brand? Speaker 1: Yeah, so the way that I look at it I mean the most untapped is usually the I mean the higher you go up the funnel the less accessible it is less people typically use it and the more specific you need to be with the types of trade as you have but I What I would say is that the thing to think about is when you're looking into video content, you have to really think about who the person is that you're serving it to and where they're seeing it. So, for example, if we're thinking about a sponsored brand video or we're thinking about content, video content that lives within a product detail page, something like showing a product in action is going to be very valuable. Like, let's say we're selling, I don't know, a saw. If we're searching for saws and a video pops up that shows how clean it's cutting and somebody's actively looking for that product, that's going to be really valuable to them because they're looking for a product that fits this need. Same thing with the product detail page. It's going to be useful. They can see it works. But if we're running a streaming TV ad or an online video ad that's pretty much interrupting somebody's video watching experience and we're just showing them how well a saw works, They're not really going to be that interested in that video. It's not going to be archived. They're just going to wait for it to be over. Even if there's somebody that's looked at the product previously on Amazon or something like that. It's not as relevant. It needs to be a little bit more eye-catching. It needs to make somebody think. It needs to be, you know, the music and things like that are important. So it's a lot more intentional with things like Sponsored Brand and product detail page videos. Like TikTok is all UGC influencer-oriented. And then things like streaming TV and online video through DSP, they need to be a lot more just generally eye-catching and memorable. Speaker 2: Right. So I guess in terms of for a brand, you know, obviously I think anyone selling on Amazon can benefit from Sponsored Brand videos on their product pages. At what point does the switch happen to where that more top of funnel video ad through something like DSP where You know, it's not just direct keyword searching. Now we're doing like demographic-based targeting. We're going out into the internet and serving them video ads. Where do you generally see that switch point happen for brands? Speaker 1: It's when they plot out. Honestly, because what I, and this is what I say about generally launching DSP across the board. It's like, you do this when you start to plateau. Because everyone on Amazon that's looking to grow, there's a kink in the chain somewhere, right? It's either you have a ton of traffic and it's not converting. And that's one fix. It's the traffic that comes to your page usually buys. That's another fix. And there are different things that you do based on the situation you're facing, right? And in the early stages or, you know, for some people a long time, it's you want to scale PPC spend, scale intentional content creation, scale all of these things that are closer to the dollar, pretty much to the point where any incremental dollar is not going to get you revenue in return. You scale it until it tapers off and you're like, I could throw more money at this, but I'm not going to get any back. What do I do next? And for one, that's usually sometimes a little earlier than that, but usually that's when we roll in DSP, generally speaking, for some, you know, mid funnel stuff, cleaning up, not to bring traffic, all that. But when brands have plateaued and they can't just pump more money into queries, they can't because Amazon is ultimately, or at least especially it was on PPC, is a demand capture platform. So you're capturing the demand for either your brand or the category, whatever it is. So at a certain point when that tailors off or you've capitalized on it to the extent you think you can, now you have to generate demand. And that's where DSP comes in. And that's, you know, one really one step beyond static displays. That's where things like video ads come in. So it's a great lever for brands to grow when they feel they've maxed out everything that they can do with their current structure. And it lifts all things together. Speaker 2: So let's say someone is running Sponsored Brand video and I've seen Sponsored Brand video like all over the map. I've seen Sponsored Brand video sometimes be the best campaign in an account, sometimes be the worst campaign in an account. And ever since you mentioned Someone's selling a saw. I've searched tree saw and I've just been watching this video on the loop of someone. Let's actually pull this up and let's actually talk about this video because one thing I think is interesting to give people some perspective here is the evolution of creative. I think most people, when they first Get started. You know, they're thinking a lot of the static images, like their product images, their A-plus content, all that static stuff. And then, of course, we evolved to now let's get some video, right? And I would say the first step that a lot of people take is like the table stakes step, which is like the binary of like, do I have a video or not? Let me just start a video. Speaker 1: I need something or like the AI generated ones for sponsored brands to highlight your product, which can work, but it's a For a good first step, right. Speaker 2: You see that a lot on like, because like Google ads makes that really easy. Like sometimes if I go on YouTube, I will see those auto-generated video ads, which is really just like a text ad that they just have. Speaker 1: A lot of people do that on accident too. I used to run Google ads for a long time and people don't even realize their text ads are showing up on YouTube. It's pretty funny. Speaker 2: As an animated video. Yeah. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 2: So of course, like, so then the Amazon seller evolves to You know, either get like an AI-generated video or like a, like the video that we're seeing on screen right here. This is an actual video. Like someone took this saw into the woods and is destroying their local forest, just chopping trees down. Speaker 1: Just haphazardly. Speaker 2: Where's the permit to chop down these trees? So this is a A video that I would say might be like a step or two beyond just, I have the still photo, dragging it in, and that video might be beneficial in circumstances where you have that animated still image of your product and your competitors don't, so you get a little bit more inventory. I would say those days are just slipping away from us where you need a little bit more production. And any thoughts or reactions to like this stage of like the video creative game, if you do get involved with like a Sponsored Brands, like something like this is probably only suitable for this stage of the funnel, someone searching for TreeSaw. And I wouldn't be able to necessarily like take this beyond somebody who I know is searching for TreeSaw. Speaker 1: Exactly. So that's the thing. When I look at it, there's sponsored brand videos triggered by a query. There's online videos, which are audience-based, and you can get creative with the way you do that. There's streaming TV, which is also audience-based. However, It's generally, you know, it's more expensive for CPMs. It's more top of funnel than OLV in my eyes. It's not clickable. Well, technically with a Fire TV, but nobody's buying things on their TV. So this is a perfect example because this is a great video for this query. Like if I'm looking for a tree saw, this is fantastic. It shows it works. Like I am obviously in the market for this. I'm looking it up. I'm sure it performs incredibly well. Online video, it can work if you're targeting specific. And this is one of the unique things that I think is so valuable about things like Amazon DSP video is we can take Like a retargeting audience, we can take a competitor audience based on tree saws and we can show them online videos. And even if they're not on Amazon, if they're watching a highlight reel on ESPN.com and they get interrupted by this, this person was looking at tree saws. So like this is going to be some relevant content for them. But this isn't the type of video that you're going to do just a general like prime video by. Like if I was sitting and watching something on prime video with ads and this ad popped up, Like, what is this doing here? Like, I have no interest in the tree cell whatsoever. Speaker 2: That'd be really poor targeting, right? Speaker 1: Exactly. And that's where the that's the beauty of the audience and the query targeting. So this totally warps. It's just this to me is a good sponsored brand ad. Good OLV ad with the right targeting. Wouldn't use it for streaming. Like, you could use it, but you gotta be pretty specific with the targeting for this. So that's kind of where, like, yeah. Speaker 2: You know, I'm also inclined to ask you about, like, this ad, which is the top one here after searching Treesaw. You know, this is from a large company like Friskers. They're, like, in Home Depot and so on and so forth. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: And what I think is interesting about this is, like, you know, you mentioned the audience targeting, of course. Do you see a reality where this company takes a video like this and goes out and targets homeowners in the spring, like whenever tree cutting season is? Speaker 1: You know, yes. It's just, it's top of funnel, right? And what I, what I think about is this, this could definitely be a larger scale demographic. You know, it's well, like it's well made. It very clearly demonstrates the benefits of the product. It's just, you're going to serve a lot of impressions to people that even if you're a homeowner, you're not cutting trees. I'd venture to say probably most owners aren't often cutting trees enough to buy something like this. So for an awareness play, Sure. It's just if you're a brand that's focused on at least some degree of return on ad spend directly, then you need to keep the targeting tight with this sort of specific product. Speaker 2: So what kind of brand? So like obviously we touched on the retargeting, right? And I think retargeting is probably the ultimate audience that anyone can go after. But when we move beyond that and we begin to say, well, First, let's talk client type or product type or brand type. A lot of these are cheap, like $14. Some of them get a little bit more expensive. But I guess the question is, you probably would never serve a mid or top of funnel ad to a cold audience for a $12 saw or a $20 saw, right? Am I correct in that? Speaker 1: I feel two ways about it, right? Because when you think about top of funnel, what you're looking for is mass appeal. Right, so like if I'm, you know, things that have mass appeal are like headphones. Pretty much everyone needs headphones. If you're thinking about mass appeal, right, this is not a mass appeal category. They're saws. So I would actually venture to say maybe the other way around. Because if you're going for a top of funnel audience and you're selling a super expensive saw, you're even getting more specific. Because I would say the people that need a $14 saw, ...are probably a bigger audience than, like, the people that are looking for, like, a $300 saw. That is a very, very, very specific audience. Like, that's not only someone that owns a home and has some trees. Like, they must have a lot of trees. They must live in the woods. So, to me, that's shrinking the audience. So, I think that I would say that cheaper products probably, as just a general rule of thumb, have more mass appeal than really expensive products because Another example is if you're someone who works out, is a $20 muscle milk protein going to have more mass appeal than the $100 protein with all these super specific benefits that only bodybuilders know what they mean? Yeah. So I would say muscle milk has the opportunity to go very top of the funnel with video. The $100 protein, they need to have a much more defined audience because the higher your price, the smaller. Speaker 2: So, could you give any, like, examples from – that makes a lot of sense. So, as you move up the funnel here, how does the video change? Like, could you give maybe an example of how that video got produced, you know, for maybe some of your current clients, or how do they evolve their video game? Speaker 1: When you're starting like usually the the court the roadmap is Sponsored Brand video comes first slash products that you put on your PDP. And then next would be something like online video because the CPMs are much cheaper. And then beyond that, it's streaming TV. And if you're tapping into things like TikTok, that's probably, you know, it lands somewhere in there as well. And that's all CPG content. But the lower in the funnel you are, it's benefit and product specifications. Like this saw is this long. And it cuts through trees in this amount of time and whatever. And then the higher you get, it's more about you're selling the benefit of, you're selling the concept. When somebody's already looking at the category, when they've already searched a similar category, then you're saying, why is this saw better than other saws? Right? But then if you're going to the top of the funnel, you're selling the saw category. Maybe Saws is the best example for this, but it's like you're selling the benefits of the category at the top of the funnel because you are likely talking to people who hadn't been thinking about that product very much versus Sponsored Brand. Somebody's already looking at the category. You're saying, why am I better than these other ones? Speaker 2: What's the last category you ran a successful DSP video to cold audiences for? Speaker 1: There's Women's Beauty and then another one was a Melatonin supplement. With the Women's Beauty, we really just had to narrow it down to women. So it's a very still-atop-the-funnel audience. We're not going to everyone, but we just need to cater to women, right? And, you know, the video was done really well. It's glamorous. It's eye-catching, you know, all that good stuff. And then for the melatonin one, that is pretty much something that it's tough to narrow down like other than like people who are shopping other sleep supplements. It's tough to narrow down a demographic for something like melatonin, right? Pros and cons of that. The pro being that anybody could be interested if you have a good enough creative. The con being that you don't have a super specific audience segment to narrow in on. So, and again, the broader your audience is, the more important that creative becomes. Speaker 2: How did you structure that with the melatonin? For example, like, do you go after like biohackers or people like that category, like health conscious people, general population? Do you run both and see how they perform? Speaker 1: We did a In-market supplements for, or in-market segments for just general vitamins and supplements, pretty easy. I think that, you know, people that are looking to improve their health in any capacity might be looking to improve their sleep because they care about their health and sleep's important, so melatonin might be up their alley. Speaker 2: And when you run a video ad like that to An audience like that, like in-market people who are generally health conscious, like vitamins, what level of performance are you expecting to get from that? What was it successful and why was it successful? Speaker 1: I would say the KPIs for any of these videos, A, determine on what the brand's looking for, but B, it's dependent on when we go from Sponsored Brand Video to OLV to Streaming TV, you look for different things. So Sponsored Brand Video, while it is, depending on your targeting, it can be a solid awareness campaign, like you're looking to drive sales. OLV is a middle ground because honestly it's kind of underutilized and I see CPMs for OLV similar to static. And we honestly look for direct sales attribution from LLV as well because people can click on it and go right to Amazon. The bar might be a little bit lower. So we do consider, you know, cost per detail page view, total video completions, things like that versus streaming TV. You kind of just have to zoom all the way out because the attribution is going to be tough. Like the ability that Amazon has to Find users like I'm logged in on my phone and I'm logged in the same account on my TV. And now I'm seeing an ad based on my browsing behavior on my phone on my TV. Like that's incredible. But from what I've seen the attribution, it's just tricky. It truly is. So for like a streaming TV buy, we look at. What are we paying for a thousand impressions? We zoom out and it's like if we, I like to run limited tests with it. So it's like if we keep everything more or less the same and we do X amount of money into a streaming TV by did our sales, you know, you give it a little bit of wiggle room afterwards for people to come in, but how do our traffic increase? How did our sales increase? So you have to zoom out in that way. And I've definitely turned down brands before who wanted to run streaming TV when they really wanted to focus on getting a high ROAS. I'm like, it's not going to be directly reflected in that way. So it is really more or less the last step in that, you know, video to top of funnel placement strategy. Speaker 2: Have you found that Amazon Marketing Cloud you have faith in to be able to tell a little bit more about that story? Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it absolutely helps. I was mentioning this to you earlier. I think there is a little bit of an arms race with tech companies that integrate Amazon's AMC because they want to provide more data, make it more easily accessible. They want to factor in as many things as possible. AMC can be super beneficial. And I would honestly venture to say that if you're not utilizing AMC at all, Unless you're really just going, you have a lot of money to put behind this, you're looking to increase sales, you don't care about specific numbers, I wouldn't draw a streaming TV before you at least have AMC access or using it. So it's a big help. But again, even then by itself isn't perfect because I'm sure it's in a smaller capacity, but you also have to think about like DTC website sales. And that's something that a lot of companies are racing to try to implement is like figure out that attribution between this person saw this streaming TV ad and then they went on their computer right to your website and purchased it. And that's it's tricky to figure that out. It's it's always going to be imperfect. But That's why it's kind of like if the data isn't going to be totally perfect when you zoom in as far as you can, the next best thing is to zoom way out. I did this thing. I put this money behind it. What happened to my sales over that time? It's imperfect, but it can at least give you directionally, is this thing working for me or not? Speaker 2: Right. That's where good, well-ran companies are thinking about marketing's efficiency ratio. How much are we spending overall on our marketing and what is the ratio of that to our overall sales? Speaker 1: Think about when advertising was all billboards and commercials. Speaker 2: Super Bowl, yeah. Speaker 1: They weren't looking at, I mean, that is the beauty of digital marketing is all this data we have now. But that being said, these things are more akin to commercials, really. So sometimes the answer is, you know, maybe it'll become perfect someday, but sometimes the answer is to zoom out. And I encourage brands to look at that. Speaker 2: Yeah, I always find conversations fascinating when I get a chance to talk to someone that works for like a Fortune 100 company and hear the way that they do marketing versus the way that a lot of digital marketers do marketing. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: So I love the sort of the balance there. And I would say it's better with DSP than it is a Super Bowl ad. You know, it's not like we're completely shooting in the dark. Like it's all sort of somewhat integrated. Speaker 1: We have a lot of data for sure. It's just imperfect. Speaker 2: Is there anything else you think that people should know about video? I almost want to call it like the evolution of video up the funnel. I think we've talked about, you know, sponsored brand video, video structures, getting those videos made on this show quite a bit. But I think as people scale, they hit a plateau and they look for more opportunity to get their brand out there. You know, one question I haven't asked too, which is assuming someone has creatives, Assuming they're working their way up the funnel, you know, assuming they're moving past retargeting audiences, would you actually wager that a video would outperform a static image in a top of funnel environment? Speaker 1: In a top of funnel environment, absolutely. The only thing is, because obviously with the lower funnel environments, videos can perform super well. They're just a lot more expensive. And the only reason that static outperforms video in the bottom of the funnel is because you have more at-bats. If they were the same price showing in the same places, video is always going to beat static. It's just more expensive to run and get them in the places where you want them. And OLV, right, and OLV is kind of an interesting solve for that because there's, especially off Amazon, there's so much ad video real estate out there that I don't think enough people use it. But I would say absolutely that awareness video outperforms, provided you have the right, it's just the variable of having the right creative versus static. It's, you know, do you have the right product? It's going to, do you have enough reviews if you're using RECs, whatever, but There's the variable, which is the gift and the curse of video if you're only as good as your asset, but 100% I'd say that. I mean, I don't know the last time that I was targeted by a random static ad for a product unless I was browsing something super similar. A product that I had never heard of, I don't know the last time a static ad really persuaded me. They'll work for categorically similar products to what I look at, retargeting, like if I'm on it, like contextual targeting, if I'm on a page and there's a similar but better product, absolutely. But top of funnel, video over static all day. Speaker 2: Well, Sam, Thank you so much. I hope that people walk away with a little bit keener sense of video and video opportunity and scale and sort of the evolution as you take a video up the funnel. Final words about video or where can people find you? Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I've exhausted my videotape. I think, I mean, in reality, there's probably a lot more we can cover with it. But I would just say do video intentionally. Understand that there are options beyond things that require a 50K, 100K investment. There are steps to it, right? So I think a misconception is that, all right, we've done PPC For one, there's a misconception that we've done PPC, we need, you know, 20, 30, 40k a month to test DSP. Not true. In the same way that they think if they want to run video ads, they need to invest 50k and do streaming TV. Also not true. Like you can run limited online video tests through the DSP pretty affordably to like prove out the concept. And I always encourage Prove out the concept one step at a time before you do anything else. And what I mean by that is you're on Amazon. Start with PPC. Prove out the concept. Build up spend a little bit. Then you do static DSP. Prove out the concept. Then you move into OLV. And then from there, you move into streaming TV for at least, you know. Small to medium-sized brands. For bigger brands, they kind of do whatever, but that's how I encourage people to look at it. Speaker 2: When you say small or medium, can you define that a little bit? Speaker 1: I just look at budgeting. I mean, when I think about a brand who's spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a month on the Amazon environment specifically, then they can afford to pull $30K away to test video and test multiple things. If a brand is spending, let's say, $100K or less in aggregate, it's just more of a decision to put $10K, $20K behind something, right? So with any brand, I encourage them, like big or small, to do things one step at a time and go intentionally, but especially, you know, as brands are scaling, just be intentional with it. Yeah, as far as finding me, LinkedIn, my name's Sam Lee. There are probably a lot of Sam Lees. Speaker 2: There's probably one or two of them out there. Speaker 1: My first five companies I worked at had another Sam Lee. They were all women actually, which is pretty funny. But yeah, you can still probably find me on LinkedIn and then I'm vice president of Trivium Group, so you can find me there. More than happy to chat. I think it takes me a little longer to get on LinkedIn these days since AI has filled my inbox with nonsense, but I'll do my best. Speaker 2: Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Sam. Super appreciate you coming back on The PPC Den podcast. For everyone else, I'll see you next week here on the show. Unknown Speaker: I've campaigned and picked keywords I've got my bids, set placements too Now bad mistakes, I've made a few I've had my share of wrong keywords Oh yeah. The creepiest shit in my friends You two are the PPC Den. We talk about Amazon. No time for medicals, cause we fix the game.