Creating Demand with Amazon DSP

Creating Demand with Amazon DSP Speaker 2: Hello everyone and welcome back to the Better Advertising with BTR Media podcast. Today I am incredibly excited to have another BTR-er, BTR-er, Bester, there's no great way to say this, but today we have Alyssa Guzman on the team and she is here to talk about all things DSP and we'll see where the conversation goes. Alyssa's been managing DSP for three years now and Amazon advertising in general for going on five years. So very well versed in this space, a fun and dynamic background. So excited to hear what you have to say today, Alyssa, and thank you so much for joining. Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited to be here on the podcast. I know it's been a minute since I joined BTR, but I'm excited to kind of get my feet wet with our podcast and see where that goes. Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. And DSP is a fun topic. I mean, there is a lot of changes in the space. I still think there's a lack of education in the space when it comes to DSP, which is maybe an area that we can start with. Why do you feel as if there's lack of education around DSP? Just in general, in this space, where do you think that's driven from? Or lack of understanding of maybe what DSP is? Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that comes from the hyper focus on PPC, honestly. Speaker 2: Yes. Speaker 1: I've been putting it for, I would say, at least when I first started, it was on the back burner for a long time. But now I feel like it's something that people really want to I have a part of their funnel, their strategy and their funnel right off the bat. So it's really cool to see that. I know we had previously talked about how people, we kind of had to explain to them like, hey, this is your next step for kind of your strategy, especially on Amazon. Are you ready for DSP? And sometimes they just kind of I fall into it, but now it's like, no, I want it right now. I mean that we want part of our funnel. So we don't really have to, um, per se sell our clients on it more so or tell them that they're ready for it. They are full, um, 10 toes in wanting to start their DSP because they know that it's something that's crucial to their overall success on Amazon. Speaker 2: I agree. I also would say that one BTR perspective in general, we provide a lot of transparency around reporting, which is something that I feel like other agencies or brands maybe don't always have a great experience with because DSP isn't available for everyone. It's kept behind an access wall in terms of getting your own DSP seat. That people sometimes don't trust the information they're getting. But thankfully, you know, we've built out the tech. We are API enabled in this regard. So we're able to, I think, provide a level of transparency with DSP that maybe most brands aren't. Familiar with, so when they do start working with us, like you said, we don't always have to sell it. It's like, hey, here's a really big opportunity for you. You have complete visibility into metrics. You have control over strategy, you know, recommendations from us, but this is what you would get in return. I think that helps a little bit. Speaker 1: Honestly, in the day-to-day management, I never think of that because I'm just so hands-on on the DSP. Speaker 2: You're in the weeds. You see it all. Speaker 1: I love that because it helps get like them at ease with the numbers because when they aren't able to see it, they will be asking, especially at my last company, they ask a lot more like, hey, how's it going? How's it going? How's it doing? What's going on? Whereas we're like, hey, this is your access to Nexus and You can peek in at any time, but you're able to see everything there. So that's a great call out. Speaker 2: Absolutely. DSP is probably one of the more difficult roles in the company just because of all the changes, I would say. Is there anything that you're really excited about when it comes to DSP and like the most recent rollouts or the future of DSP that you think brands are really latching onto or that you are recommending to your brands? Speaker 1: Yeah, I think first and foremost, AMC. I know everyone's talking about AMC these days. Speaker 2: As they should be. Speaker 1: But I think like for me, just like making sure I'm building upon every day what I know about DSP and then applying it. And the thing that I do like is the trust is always there. So whatever I want to try, Our clients are okay with. Also, STV and OLV. We talk about that a lot internally with myself and Gibby, who's head of DSP, but we're talking to the clients. They're like, yeah, lead-in period. Yeah, that sounds good. Awareness. So it's super easy for them to obviously buy in. I think once they buy in, it makes it easier for us to get our expertise to the next level. So I love that. Speaker 2: Let's pause there actually. I mean, those are two huge call-outs. They probably deserve their own podcast. I mean, Amazon had the announcement at Cannes Lions this year that they're expanding their TV partnership to both Roku and Disney. That's a huge opportunity because now brands have the ability to take a commercial or take a video. AI is also making that video creation much easier and serve to a much larger audience. Something we've been talking about very frequently within BTR Media is creating demand, not just capturing demand. I think all of us who have been in this space for over three years, as you know, it's gotten a lot more complicated. Top of search is much more competitive. The players on a digital shelf are bigger names with bigger budgets, and that makes it a lot more competitive. So a lot of what we've been talking about is you don't want to just wait for a customer to Type in your keyword and find your products. Now being compared to every single other product on the shelf, every other brand that has better reviews or a lower price than you. So a lot of the conversation we're having with brands is how do you lean into TV to create demand prior? When you're serving an ad to someone that is sitting on a couch at home, they're not overwhelmed with the 300 other options on the digital shelf. So it allows you to drive awareness that hopefully does turn into a conversion if you target your audience well. All of that to say, you know, it's a side note and a little soapbox for the audience listening, but that's why things like OLV and Streaming TV are so excited for us at BTR. And to your point, when we have a 95% brand retention rate, the trust is there and the playbook works. So when we have that trust and that buy-in and we're able to, you know, navigate the best plans for our brands, I think it makes a big difference. The second thing you mentioned was ANC. And I mentioned, as you should be, because everyone's talking about AMC. Because I think it unlocks a lot of opportunity for the smallest brands and also the largest brands. So it's actually one of the first rollouts from Amazon that's accessible to everyone in terms of opportunities. That being said, I think it can be really restrictive for a few different reasons. Do you want to dive into some of the maybe the cons you've seen with AMC or the things that brands should consider when investing in AMC? Speaker 1: Right. Um, yes, I think for AMC people, It's like a shiny new object. Yes, I want you to see but there's a lot of that goes into making sure that AMC audience is number one big enough and then number two worth like investing in. So I would really recommend especially on our end what we're doing is we're investing heavily in prospecting and those tactics that are like in market, lifestyle, STV, OLV, making sure that there's anyone that has Interactive with us gets captured through AMC and that will only happen if we build on the prospecting side. So really those audiences get small if you're not investing in prospecting, essentially is like my biggest thing with AMC. Like, yeah, it's great. We get good returns and those audiences are high intent, high value to whatever brand we're applying it to. But if you're not investing in those upper level tactics because AMC is really lower funnel, then we're not going to see AMC perform as good as it can. So that's it in a nutshell, to be honest. Speaker 2: That's a fantastic point. And I think that this could be expanded to, you know, DSP in general. It's something that we frequently see brands make the mistake of is They get too caught up in maybe the ROAS or the ACOS and they only want to run retargeting strategies. Same thing with AMC. And what happens is that audience is so small because you're just trying to serve another ad to an audience that's already aware of your product. So you think about how small that audience gets as you stack on other variables like AMC audiences. And yes, your ROAS may be incredibly high, But you're only driving a small number of sales, which doesn't really move your overall needle. And I think that's really important to consider because like you said, AMC is actually a decently heavy operational lift, I would say. You need to create the audience and if you're building it with SQL and it's a custom audience, it's going to be a heavy lift. You then need to apply it. On the DSP side, it's a little bit easier to apply. On the search side, sponsored side, you have to apply it specifically to a unique campaign With its own bid, its own keyword, its own targeting, its own placements. So it gets relatively difficult to scale. Now, at BTR Media, I would say we love these micro-targeting opportunities because it gives us a competitive advantage over everyone else who's not gonna take the time to do that. So we're not afraid of the operational efficiency. We've actually built a lot of this out into our tech already. We can report on AMC audiences. We have a lot of the build-outs built into our tech, so it's easy. But the problem is if brands aren't creating that demand and creating a larger audience pool, as Alyssa mentioned, Then that $30 ROAS is going to do nothing because it's only driving 2% of your sales. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 2: That's something that we always try to balance and you know I will say I think that's also the advantage of working with an agency is they typically understand the scalability With, you know, the granular targeting side really well. We have our operations down in that regard. So what we're always trying to find is, you know, maybe our audience isn't as small, but it's going to capture a wider net and actually move the needle top line, which is really important to consider. Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. And I, it's like, once you've worked with so many DSP accounts, you just play out. And then if they want to, it's, it's really a dance. I know that there's seasonality comes into play and just tentpole events, all these things that where you want to change strategy. But if you're not changing strategy, your line is going to be like this, going downhill because you're not investing in any other thing than remarketing, you know? So. Speaker 2: Absolutely. And then what typically happens is you get a message of, you know, my ROAS looks fantastic, but my total sales aren't increasing. Is DSP working or is it stealing credit? I get that all the time of like DSP attributions, a hot topic in this space. Is DSP just taking a credit for my organic sales? And I'm like, well, what type of ads are you running? We're retargeting. So you're only serving ads to people who have already viewed your listing. Yes. Yes, there is probably an attribution issue there and that's one of the reasons why we are so big on education because Alyssa mentioned earlier of like we don't have to sell our clients on a lot of things and this is something we see in the space is people try to sell DSP to their clients and they do it by advertising a shiny ROAS. Like we'll get you a $30 ROAS. You can get a $30 ROAS, I promise you, if you're only serving ads to people who've already viewed your product multiple times. And that's what DSP retargeting does. But the real value in DSP, in my opinion, is like Alyssa said, you're going out and getting new customers. You're targeting people that maybe haven't viewed your listing yet. And yes, you're going to have a lower ROAS. It's a more disruptive style of marketing. They're not going to convert near as highly as someone who's viewed you 17 times. But it's a really big opportunity, I think, to outpace your competitors and to capture your customers in different stages of the journey rather than waiting for them to decide they want your product, type in your search term, and then come across your listing, I would say. Speaker 1: Right. And I will say sometimes people may view audiences as a negative thing versus it's like you can target specific keywords. But being able to target audiences that are curated by Amazon and then you get to target them, it's kind of like having an upper hand because Amazon's going to fit that towards you, you know, so. Speaker 2: I completely agree. I got into this discussion yesterday and you know, some people have been burned in the past by new rollouts on Amazon, so maybe they don't have a lot of trust. But anyone who plays around with AI can see the direction AI is going, just personally. My personal ChatGPT has so much context. It knows my Enneagram, it knows my food preferences, it knows my job, career, my schedule. So when I ask it a question, it serves a response that's contextual to my needs. Amazon has so much customer insights. They have demographic data. They have audience data. They know exactly what someone purchased. Last year and well, five years ago, AMC Look Back is five years ago. And they understand if someone purchased rabbit food six months ago, they probably have a higher propensity to purchase a chicken coop in that timeframe. I don't know. I totally pulled that out. All of that to say Amazon has the data and insights and Amazon's incentivized to show a strong return because how do you get advertisers to spend more money? You give them incredible results. How does Amazon make money? Advertising revenue and orders being driven. They want people to convert on your ads. So leaning into some of the audience insights that Amazon has can be really, really powerful because they understand their customers and now we know how enabled AI is. That's a huge advantage for brands. Speaker 1: Yeah, I think for me on the DSP side it does feel a little bit scary just because we know that e-commerce creatives are like what people, like we've tested lifestyle versus creatives you could say. Versus e-commerce, responsive e-commerce and the responsive e-commerce always does well. So I'm really interested to see how we can apply that to the DSP side because I know it's applicable on the PPC side. We've seen it with brands and the videos that AI has created for us, etc. So it's it's definitely like, yeah, on the scary side for DSP, but I don't see why it won't work. It's just testing and then bringing that data forward. Speaker 2: I completely agree and I do think a lot of it is dependent on brand. I think a rec is very traditional to on platform so it gets those clicks. It's more trustworthy to customers. But I mean, I've seen the Geico ads. You know, Geico used to spend, maybe still does spend a lot of money on non-endemic DSP. And every time I'm scrolling Amazon and I see the ad next to the Buy Box with Geico, it does capture my attention. I don't click on it, but I know the ad is there. So I think there is a time and a place. And I think that's going to be a big unlock as we start incorporating AI creative with audiences. Just creating an ad that's native to that user. They're already testing it on the search side with sponsored brand ads. They have the carousel images and they're suggesting dynamic copy now. So I expect it to be that much more powerful, but the same conversation you and I just had, it's all about balancing what's actually scalable with granular targeting. I think Amazon's probably in that same boat. Like how customized do you create your ad or do you go broader so that way you have more aligned brand guidelines and you know, I don't know. It's going to be interesting. It's a fun space to be in over the next few years. That's for sure. Speaker 1: And I love that. Obviously there's like a playbook, especially for DSP. There's, you want to get prospecting, remarketing for your clients, but really once you get the base set up, there's so many different directions, especially on a brand by brand basis to where it's not the same. You can't just apply the same thing to each one because you're not going to get the same success. It, my mind goes straight to, um, Like those. Consumable products versus something a one time purchase. Um, we can hit them a different way versus ones that it's one time purchase or even two times a year purchase. Um, so I think that's probably what's exciting is like, I'm never, it's not a dull moment with DSP. It's like, let me try to get these things out and type of thing. Speaker 2: Not to mention how quickly the playbook changed. Cause Amazon's always rolling out something new and you know, Amazon keeps us on our toes and is chaotic. But one of the things that you mentioned before we even hopped on the podcast is outside of Amazon, you also have retailer expansion. That's something that's incredibly exciting. And before I kind of ask you my question related to that, I wanted to reiterate something you said, and that's The playbook is not the same for each brand. This is, I would say, like the definition, the vision, the foundation BTR was built on was because of that. We saw so many, you know, software companies that were just, you know, one size fits all solution for brands and they are really screwing up that performance. We saw so many agencies outsourcing to poor talents and just I was sending them through an SOP and only doing this and I was like, I want to be different. I want to provide strategic recommendations and management for every single brand we work with. Everything we do, we have a playbook for, but that playbook adjusts for the brand, the specific brand goals, the category it's in. All of our team members, as you can see here, we have Alyssa on the podcast for this reason. She's a well-spoken thought leader. She can lead strategy for her brands. That's something we're passionate about because that playbook does need to be different. And all we've talked about in this podcast is Amazon, which adds enough complexity and changes frequently. Something you brought up is your brands are coming to you talking about retailer expansion. Do you want to, you know, mention some of that on this as well? Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah. I think obviously anytime you're coming out of Amazon five years, I know you have more experience on Amazon than me, but you do get a little bit scared, but it's a good scared because Our clients, especially like the last three clients that I talked to this week, are wanting to do TikTok ads or just Lowe's ads, Home Depot ads, just ads outside of Amazon. And it really is a testament to Kind of our culture here at BTR and just kind of the trust that we have built with our team, but also with our clients, our brands that they're like, yeah, I want to be the first one that you test there. I want I want like I give you control over my brand and how we're presented on that platform. And I think that just gives amazing like insights into kind of how we manage and how we interact with our brands just because they give us We're going to go through the metrics together and roll it out, but it's just really exciting to know that we can expand and our brands are going to expand with us, not just us. Speaker 2: I absolutely agree. And there is no, I don't, I don't think perfect playbook for those retailer expansions because of everything you mentioned. When you trust a team because they're going to do what's in your best interest and they've proven that they are quick learners and they build the systems needed really fast, I think that says enough. I mean, in the last two years, I think our highest growth departments have been DSP, Walmart and Instacart. And that's been really cool. Like we're managing very substantial budgets in those areas. And then we have our brands coming to us saying, you know, what about Lowe's? What about Home Depot? What about TikTok? And that's just another opportunity. And again, the playbook is going to be different. But the foundation of, you know, incredible work ethic and strategic thinkers stays the same, which means if you already have that trust, like we can figure it out as we go. Speaker 1: Right. And I'm so excited for that, especially Knowing the team that we have, to be honest. Every time that I'm in a meeting, I get more enlightened, I can refine my craft because the people that I'm around are top-notch and I can't express that enough. I think the last company I was at, everyone was kind of steady and here it's like... Speaker 2: We're trying. Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really fun. It's fun to be a part of. Speaker 2: It is really fun and it's been incredible having you on the team and I think incredible having you on this podcast as well. So thank you so much for joining. As always, going to give a huge shout out. Alyssa does post content on LinkedIn of her own free will. So if you want to check out more, we're going to have this posted, of course, on podcast, YouTube and everywhere else, but feel free to give her a follow and to check us out. And Alyssa, thank you so much for joining. Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for having me and we'll talk soon.