Amazon’s AI Doesn’t Care About Keywords Anymore

Most people think that they have one target audience. They don't. They have at least five or more. There's new science that just came out that says that suggestions from an LLM convert at nine times the rate of an ad. I think what we're at in this new AI world is back to fundamentals. The world is shifting. People are no longer typing in keywords. They're actually asking complicated questions. And we have to kind of train these algorithms so that they can understand our content and so that they can act on our behalf as our salespeople in convincing someone who is interested and has come to our doors to ask, hey, do you have this thing? Does it serve my need or not? You're watching Marketing Misfits with Norm Ferrar and Kevin K. Norm Ferrar, the man from the great white north. Did you Did you get that grow that beard just because you're from the great white north to match? Is that Is that like the symbol of Canada? No, actually I I grew it because I wanted to be the Travel Velocity gnome. That's it. You're You're a little big for that. That's a little That's a little squatty thing that sits in the yard. You're you're a little big for that. I idol the travel a little bobblehead doll of that. You need a little bobblehead doll that bounces back and forth. So, you know, we need bobblehead dolls. That would be cool. That would be that that would be that would be really really really funny. You know, you ever you ever see uh those quiet assassins? You know, those those unassuming, quiet, you think they're shy, but they're really not shy assassins. You you ever known someone like that? I I I do actually. That That's our guest today here. Uh I'm I'm really happy to have her cuz she's one of those quiet assassins. I remember learning about her like eight or nine years ago. She was working with uh Bernie Thompson, a guy who I've had on my other podcast. I think you might have had him on lunch with Norm, too. And and she was doing some stuff with Hill's like, "Who is this like really smart lady that's like making you all this money?" And he's like, "Oh, that's Ritu." And I I didn't realize who that was. I thought it's like, "Okay, it's some Filipino VA. He he got uh, you know, really good." I cuz I never met her. I hadn't seen a photo or anything. And then I met her at an event and I was like, "Oh, you're not like a Filipino VA. you're actually like a really like a I won't say normal person, but you're like you're like you're you're not a Filipino VA. Uh and and she's one of those people that's you know a lot of people are creative but they're bad with numbers or bad with logic or the flip side people are good with numbers or logic or programming but they're not creative. And she is one of those lucky ones that has both and and she uses that as a as a weapon. and she's someone that's been she came to I invited her to the first time to the virtual billion-dollar seller summit at a host host and she crushed it. she like won best speaker and which means she got to come to the uh on uh the inerson event and there I forget where she placed but I think it was second I think if I if I I believe or um and then this last one we just did you were at with me in Iceland earlier this year we had someone uh that we we uh we know that couldn't make it uh due to a family uh issue so I RT was coming and I asked her hey do you mind stepping in uh someone uh to was not able to come due to a family crisis the last minute and she said, "Oh yeah, no problem." So she stepped in like a trooper and she crushed it and placed again uh I think getting second. Uh she's a super smart person, technical, marketing savvy and I'm super stoked to have her on here today and I know you've had her on lunch with Norm too, right? A few times. Kev few time. A few times. Yeah. So you're You know what? Let's just get it out. You're you're a fanboy. I'm a fanboy. You are a fanboy. And I'm a fanboy. I read every word of her newsletter. Like every word. Like every word. And sometimes I read it backwards. I start at the end and I read it backwards just to make sure I comprehend it. Have you ever done that? I I I don't read. I I tried I tried to do that with your newsletter, but it's like some other language or something. So I Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I keep stumbling over cigar butts as I'm reading it backwards. I'm like, "What is this?" But I know for a fact you're a fanboy when I like I come over to your place all the time and you've got these custom reo pillows all over your couch. Hey. Hey. Don't tell her. Don't tell her that, Norm. We have to send the secret assassin after you. All right. Well, let's assassin after your gnome. Nobody touches the gnome. Is this the gnome or is that the gnome? This is the gnome. You guys are just cracking me out. How you doing, Ru? I'm doing great. I I I couldn't control myself. My I was trying to keep quiet behind the scenes and I was like cracking up. Oh my goodness. You guys, you're awesome. Who's awesome? Like this girl. Who's Who's more awesome? Who's more awesome? Come on now. Wait. But But wait, she's pointing like this. But who's on the left and who's on the right? Cuz the screen's reversed. If you have a mirror. Who is it, Norm? It's me. No, it's you. Oh, my glasses are steaming up. I can get closer to the mic and and kiss you, Norm. All right. Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do this whole episode in sexy voice. All right. Reu. Let's start talking BPC. No, no, no, no. We're talking about five levels. Reu, how are you? I am good. I am so excited to be here with these two boys. Just I don't know what else to call you guys. You're two boys, you know. Two two old men. Yep. Two men cigar boys. That's it. That's it. So, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Absolutely. So, I'm Ritu Java. I have an interesting last name. And often times people think that I'm a Java programmer and that's why I've kind of inserted that as my last name. I am not. Uh I like uh creatives and I also like a little bit of technical stuff like programming and stuff, but I'm not a programmer. I don't identify as a programmer. Uh I am the CEO of PPC Ninja. So we are an advertising agency uh for Amazon, Walmart, uh and Google, a little bit of Meta and stuff. So, but primarily we're an agency that advertises and we also do AI creatives. Uh we've recently launched um uh AI automation workflows. So, we help people that are stuck with AI automations and we kind of help them out because everybody wants to use uh AI in their businesses but sometimes don't know where to start. So, yeah, that's kind of a little bit about myself. Um, I'm originally from India as you can tell from my my face and my accent. Uh I was born in Delhi and I um when I grew up I went to Japan and I lived there for 17 years which is a very very very very long time. I didn't I I don't know how that happened because I just went for a year and I ended up you know extending and then went back to India for a bit and then went back again and ended up spending 17 long years but really fun years in Japan. I love Japan. Yeah. I I hear you're doing something like you didn't quite accomplish this task. So tell us a little bit more about the assassin, what you're going to be doing. Okay. So yeah, so this was um I tried I tried to climb Mount Fuji um I think 25 years ago and I I was able to go up to level 8.5 but I was so naive and so stupid back then. I did not prepare appropriately. Like my colleagues at work said, "Okay, you know, we're going to Mount Fuji tonight. Want to come?" And I was like, "Oh, yeah, sure." I was like, "Oh, it must be easy." So, I just packed up my warmest clothes. This is in the middle of summer, uh, when it's like absolutely, you know, sweltering heat. It's humid. It's like hot, 35° C, which is, I think, I don't know, wait, 100 something. Um, and and I was like, "Okay, let's go." And I go in my sneakers. I didn't even own a pair of hiking boots. This was like way back when. Um, and so I was extremely unprepared and extremely exhausted. By the time I reached 8.5, I was like, I'm done. I'm going. And 10 is the top uh level 10. Um, and so I, you know, I took a different route, came back the next morning. It was like a night hike and you're basically supposed to, you know, greet the the sun in the morning and then come down kind of thing. was like watching sunrise at the top of Mount Fuji and so I couldn't do it and now I have unfinished business. So this um this summer I am planning to try to go up again. I don't know if I'll be able to do it but I'm training for it. So let's see. Let's see how high how high is I I know it's like the postcard picture from Tokyo when you see Mount Fuji out there. How high is it actually? What's a 10? Is that all the way? Is that the the summit? Is it 10? Uh it's I think it's 14,000 ft. So you need you start uh yeah I think you start at about five or something. So yeah you start at five go to 14. So it's a pretty uh substantial 9,000 ft of elevation in a night. Yeah. Yeah. And it's because it's so steep. It's a straightup trail. Like it's like 45° or something like that. It's really really tough. So, I I did Monaca in uh in Hawaii. I went to the top, but it wasn't that tough because uh you know, I took a car. Uh I didn't know what everybody's talking about all this crap about how tough it is just right up there. Oh my Yeah. That that that So, what you're So, what are you doing to train for that? Are you hiking? I mean, yeah, you're supposed to do a lot of things like uh go up Groud Grind, which is our local mountain here in Vancouver. Just go up that several times a week. Like, I haven't gotten to that point. I I still need to ramp up towards it, but I do have like 2 months and uh there's a very short window of opportunity because uh September 7th is the cut off date for climbing Mount Fuji and then they don't allow any uh any climbers. So, you have to do it within the next two months. Um, so yeah, I'll see if I'm trained enough then I'll attempt it. Otherwise, you know, I don't have anything to lose. It'll be good for my health, you know, doing all that training. So, so you said earlier, you said that one of the things that your agency does is a a lot of ad stuff for different places, but also some AI. And I think, and I know you've taught some uh stuff on AI and and your your newsletter is about AI, and you do an excellent job there. You're you're one of the leading um people when it comes to what's happening in AI, especially when it comes to e-commerce, but I think a lot of people see are using AI as a toy and and they don't really understand how to get the most from AI. And that's because they don't understand the fundamentals of marketing or of persuasion or of psychology and stuff. And I know you spoke at the your talk at the BDSS event uh was on some of this and I know you've done uh you've been uh kind of getting the word out there like look you know all these these tools are cool but if you don't understand the basics of uh persuasion uh or how to actually identify the right customer um it's not going to work. And so what what what are you seeing with your clients when it comes to when they come to you? Just everybody wants just a quick cure, right? And they they don't want to actually dig down the weeds and figure out what actually is moving the needle uh when it comes to getting people to buy or to do whatever you're trying to get them to do, right? Yeah. So here's what I've seen and uh it is um you know dismal the amount of content people put out. Uh so when it comes to describing a product for example uh they will have like the basics of you know this product has these features and maybe if they're slightly better they might say okay these are some of the benefits so everybody knows features and benefits and that part I think most people have figured out they know how to put put all of that in their listing in their images but that doesn't mean that you can actually target the right audiences uh because people might be in different stages uh in their awareness levels and uh they miss the the point about um letting people know what your product is about even before they've started their purchase journey. Like they may not be interested in buying from you at the moment. Um and uh unfortunately people don't know how to do that and so they just do a messy job of like a hodgepodge of like you know showcasing their benefits and showcasing their products and hoping that they'll be able to to win clients. Uh that doesn't happen you know. So, uh I think that we have a, you know, severe shortage of good content, uh that has like full coverage on the different levels of awareness that your ideal target audience uh might be at. And so, here's the opportunity we have with AI because AI helps you brainstorm all of those very quickly. Uh, in fact, if you um, you know, ask it for uh, different messages for different types of audiences, it'll give give you all those messages and then you can just create different pieces of content that will appeal to different audiences. And so that's kind of the the gist of what I'm trying to do with uh, with our agency. We're trying to get people um, you know, sensitized to this and and tell them that hey, your content isn't enough. Even with their ads, those ads are not enough. You need a variety and you need to have it be intentional, you know. So, is that positioning or is that stage of awareness or is that a funnel or what what is that exactly? What or what's the difference between those? Yeah, I think uh I'm glad you brought about the I brought up a funnel because u most people do understand funnels. So, let's let's talk about funnels and let's talk about the five levels of uh awareness. uh and you know there are overlaps but they're not identical. It's not the same thing when when you say you know you know a funnel mindset versus a five awareness uh mindset they are they have overlaps but they're not the same. So let me let me just go over like just a typical funnel right you so you have awareness at the top and then you have um consideration then you have intent and then you have purchase. So you're you're essentially driving people through your funnel uh by slowly working on them and taking them to the next level and then you know they they learn a little bit more and then you take them to the next level and they learn a little bit more and then they finally make their purchase. And typically a funnel is expected to be a longdrawn um process of walking people through different stages, right? For example um Kevin, you have a newsletter. might have a like a funnel that brings people in like cold audiences. You might be running let's say some uh some cold ads to cold audiences and you know get your name out there so people know that there's something uh you know that you're talking about and then they they they start noticing you and then they kind of step into your funnel. they they read more of your stuff and then one day you might be able to pitch them your billion dollar seller summit um you know ticket and and then they kind of make that purchase and then they stick to you and then they just you know become repeat purchasers for your funnel whereas so this is like the typical funnel and now we're talking about the five levels of awareness which uh uh I don't know if you guys are familiar with Eugene Schwarz but he's the author author of Breakthrough Advertising. Uh, it's a book from the 20th century. It's still applicable today, but I think it's hard to get. It's out of print. If you can find it, you pay $150 for it or something. I have more. Yeah. Or more. You do? Or more. Yeah. I heard I heard $500 last time. Uh, yeah. Yeah. So, it's hard to get that book, but I mean there's lots of documentaries on it. Lots of people have talked about it. uh Roland Frasier talked about like Molly like there's so many people that talk about um the the Eugene Schwarz model and it's so relevant in today's day and age because uh we you know have kind of steered away from the the fundamentals of marketing and we've kind of gone after like uh tactics more than you know the the spirit of what we're trying to achieve with with those kind of fundamentals. So, I think it's a good reminder to kind of go back to the basics and and study these concepts and try to understand um how your your ideal customer profile is uh well what they're thinking. Uh they might be behaving in a certain way in your funnel, but they might be thinking uh a certain way and you need to be able to tap into their minds and basically uh catch them where they are. Right? So, let me explain uh the the five levels of uh awareness. And so uh according to Eugene Schwarz there's like you know these five levels start from uh completely unaware to most aware and there's stages in between. Hey Norm, you'll love this man. I talked to a seller the other day doing 50k a month but when I asked them what their actual profit was they just kind of stared at me. Are you serious? That's kind of like driving blindfolded. Exactly, man. I told them, "You got to check out Sellerboard. This cool profit tool that's built just for Amazon sellers. It tracks everything like fees, PPC, refunds, promos, even changing cogs during using FIFO." Aha. But does it do FBM shipping costs, too? Sure does. That way you can keep your quarter 4 chaos totally under control and know your numbers because not only does it do that, but automates your PPC bids, it forecasts inventory. It sends review requests and even helps you get reimbursements from Amazon. Now, that's like having a CFO in your back pocket. You know what? It's just $15 a month, but you got to go to sellerboard.commisfits. sellerboard.commisfits. And if you do that, they'll even throw in a free two-month trial. So, you want me to say, "Go to sellerboard.com, misfits, and get your number straight before your accountant loses it?" Exactly. All right. So, completely unaware audiences are people who don't even know they have a problem, right? So, um, they're like happily living their lives and and they don't think that they have a problem in a particular area and so they won't notice your products. Even if you show it to them, they don't know what it is for, right? They they'll just ignore it. And and that state of mind is is is the wrong time to show them uh, you know, uh, like try to sell them something based on features or benefits or any of that because it's not going to stick. it's not going to register with them because they're not uh even aware they have a problem. Then you have problem aware audiences. These are people who know that there's a problem that they they want to solve desperately but and they're sick of it. Like they're sick of things going wrong or something, but they still haven't figured out a solution. They don't even know that a solution for that problem exists out there, right? I mean of course if they start looking they might find it but most people will just operate with just the inertia of motion of like do the minimal stuff and just keep going through life and they're not going to make the effort unless it becomes a real pain you know then they start looking for a solution but till that point they remain blissfully in the state of problem uh I mean they know the problem but they're solution unaware right then we have a stage where they are solution aware these people know that their problem can be solved with a certain product or service and it's it's just um you know they're they're intrigued by the idea but they still don't know who to go to or which product to pick. They they know there's a solution but they don't know which product exact product will solve their problem perfectly. And then you have the stage of product aware. These are people who uh are aware of the different products out there that will solve their problem and now they're comparing. So that's kind of where the consideration marketing uh kind of comes in when they're actually in that state of mind where they're comparing uh different uh products and they're trying to figure out which one is going to solve their problem. And then you have Yeah, sorry. I was just going to say uh just to help us out can you give examples going through each one. Yeah in just a minute. Yeah. So I'll just wrap up the the last bit which is the most aware and the most aware audience is uh people who actually uh know you or know about your type of products and they're fully aware of like all the options that are out there. Now, it's just a matter of, you know, getting them to feel motivated motivated enough to kind of go and go and make that purchase, right? They're just waiting to be prompted, for example. Uh or they're waiting for an email from you saying, "Hey, we have a new product, you know, or we just launched this new thing. Go grab our 20% coupon or whatever." So, those people are just sitting around waiting for that email from you to kind of kick them into action, right? So as you can see these five stages are people uh in different states of mind and it's not necessary uh that they they're actually taking action on any of that stuff. They're just it's just who they are in in their state of mind. So now let me give you an example. So let's say you are uh selling uh stretch lids. And what are stretch lids? These are like um uh kind of silicone reusable flexible um covers that go on top of like your seal containers of various shapes and sizes or they go over like half cut fruit or whatever. It's like just a nice little, you know, stretchable uh lid that keeps your food, you know, kind of fresh for for a long period of time. So when it comes to stretch lids, um what would we say is an unaware audience? So, an unaware audience is still using like cling wrap uh like from 20 years ago. They're continuing to do cling wrap stuff. They're they're using and throwing and it it doesn't even keep your uh food from spilling. Uh and sometimes even with a cling wrap, you you still might have rotting fruit or whatever. So, these guys don't know that they have a problem. They're just continuing on. They're like, "Yeah, cling wrap is the thing to do. just keep going. Right? So, those are the unaware people. Then you have problem aware people. Problem aware people are sick of like, you know, these lids that don't match. Um, and they're they're sick of like uh food spills in the in the fridge, for example, or you know, things that went bad. Even though they thought they had preserved it, it's gone bad already. So, these guys know that they have a problem, but they don't know that this thing called a stretch lit exists. they they don't know about it. Then you have the solution aware audience. These are people who know about uh stretch lids and they are intrigued by they've seen it on Tik Tok or Instagram or something like yeah I know that thing that silicone thing that goes over your different shaped uh uh utensils or whatever and you know they they're just intrigued but uh they haven't yet come across products that might solve their problem. Then you have the product aware audience. These guys are the ones that know that there silicone uh lids. And now these guys are actually comparing uh the stretch range and then they're comparing how well it's going to like survive the dishwasher for example or whether they're actually food safe. And so they're looking up those attributes. They're trying to figure out you know that you know they they're trying to figure out the best option from among many. So these are in the product aware uh uh state of mind. And then the most aware guys are people who've already purchased ones. They have a stretch lid lying around in their uh in their kitchen somewhere and now they're saying, "Oh, that was a good purchase. Let me look for different sizes or let's see if my the brand that I purchased for is selling it on a discount or something. Are they doing something for Prime Day, for example?" So those are the most aware people who are kind of almost like ready to purchase if they just get the right uh trigger or the right message uh from you or from you know something that they see. So that's kind of the the simple kind of description of each of these uh different uh levels of awareness. Uh if that makes sense if you guys have any thoughts or questions. Yeah I do. So that's the fundamental. So you can actually create ads that target each of those stages and and in the old way of doing things like with PPC like what you did with your clients for Walmart and Amazon and and Google that was all around keywords. So someone going to Google the old thoughts is they're kind of in the mostly in the research stage or they're one they're they're in a different stage of this uh these five levels than someone who might be looking typing in keywords on Amazon or on Walmart. They're more like I'm looking for this specific thing and they might be still doing some research um or they may not know the product that but they're trying to solve the problem. So how does now AI change that from keyword based to everybody you know all these new looms are more intentbased and conversational based. So from the five levels of awareness point of view how does this shift of the way the world is changing to interact with with to buying products to buy or to buying solutions to your problem? How how do do marketers need to be changing their thought process with the underlying uh Eugene Schwarz framework on top of the new way of searching versus the old way? Yeah, I I love that question. So um even before we go to ads uh I think we have to start with content like just having different pieces of content that speak to all these different audiences or these different people sitting in different levels of awareness and meeting them where they are so that anytime any of these people come across any piece of content from you they are immediately kind of compelled or u kind of nudged to go check you out, right? So that's that's basically the goal. The goal is to have different pieces of content ready for all different types of awareness levels. So once you have those different pieces of content ready, then you can put a little bit of money behind them. Sometimes you can combine two uh awareness levels into one ad instead of just keeping them as like five and then you have so many ads. you can sometimes combine them into um like a single ad uh but use the right sort of keywords so that they can reach the right audience because still um you know all these um uh you know platforms like Amazon, Facebook, Google they still operate on the keyword uh level. Uh they still haven't kind of switched entirely to being uh audience driven. Uh now even with the audience-driven uh kind of uh platforms like DSP for example, you still don't have the ability to target um in in the way that I'm describing. They they're still limited to things like um you know age or demographic or location and and things like that. Uh but there is an opportunity with um uh remarketing based on past behavior. So for example, you can uh look for people who have previously visited certain types of pages and you can guess from from that what they might be interested in. Again, it's not one to one with with what I'm describing. My approach here is uh going to start heavily on organic first like making sure that you you have enough coverage in in the way you describe your product and the way you do social media marketing where you're um kind of um like almost every other post is about every other um audience type. uh so that you can catch them uh you know with with frequency of course you want to catch them uh in in whatever frame of mind they are or awareness they are uh and bring them in to your funnel. So that way you can compress the the the cycle uh and and you know quickly get them in into your to to be interested in your in your products and and services. So um and the question that you ask about Rufus and uh other types of kind of AI based you know um conversational e-commerce um uh opportunities that we have now I think more than ever before we've got to structure our content in in that that format of um structured snippets or Q&A uh prompt and response and so just thinking of everything that we put out or every piece of content that we put out in that format. Uh it helps to train those those sorts of conversational um e-commerce chat bots and and you know uh services around that so that we can get discoverability through them because the world is shifting. People are no longer typing in keywords. They're actually asking complicated questions and we have to kind of train these algorithms so that they can understand our content and so that they can act on our behalf as our salespeople. uh in convincing uh someone who is interested and has come to our doors to ask, hey, do you have this thing uh or not? Does it does it serve my my need or not? Right? So, um yeah. Uh so, I I guess I I just maybe want to give you an example from ads, like two types of ads that you could use uh that will uh reach different audience types. So for example, let's say you're selling uh uh like let's say you're selling a host pipe for example. Uh and this host pipe has certain feature set. It's like 10 ft long. It's made of a certain material. It has some internal braiding that keeps it solid and strong. And then it has nozzles that you know can be adjusted and you can have different types of like spray uh spray whatever configurations. Now, if you were to market this through ads to different audience types, uh you could consider different uh visuals or different videos, for example, that will speak to audiences that are in different levels of your um awareness. So for example, in order to um attract someone who is let's say totally unaware of uh a very common problem of freezing in in in the winter, you have like frozen pipes, right? Uh you have frozen pipes and often it'll be covered in ice and you have to kind of literally hammer it uh to kind of release the the the hose from from its ice cage. and and that visual of like someone hammering, it's actually an ad that I actually saw where they're hammering at it and then they kind of break the the the ice and the the message there was that um you know what we're selling is an all-weather uh high performance host pipe, right? So uh so what they're doing with this ad is essentially they are uh creating this sense of um curiosity. uh they're informing people who are unaware of this thing called all perform all weather performance uh host bite like it it seems like wow I wouldn't need that like I don't need an all-weather high performance host bite but the moment I see it when I when I see it being frozen and the problems then you start to identify with it you're like oh yeah it it actually does happen it does freeze and then I can't straighten it out and it's you know the water goes all crooked or it doesn't flow properly etc. So there you've got them in that moment thinking that hey now I know there is a problem here. Now a quick word from our sponsor Lavanta. Hey Kevin tell us a little bit about it. That's right Amazon sellers. Do you want to skyrocket your sales and boost your organic rankings? 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But even if they look at it and they think they need a host pipe right now, they're probably going to look for this brand because this brand has done a great job of explaining that this is solving a problem that they have in their minds, right? Uh, and then if you were to target someone who's, let's say, product aware, uh, solution aware, product aware, and most aware, you probably want to have this ad showing very minute, uh, details about this host pipe. You want to say, oh, this has like metallic um, you know, uh, so so let's say you have a metallic point which can be swapped out for this and that. uh and you have like a very sturdy handle that can, you know, hold and and kind of let you um maneuver it easily, etc. Those are features and they're like extra nice things that only a person who's already interested in a host pipe will be looking for, right? they are the people who are further along and they they know everything about you know how these host pipes the the all weather types can help you but then now they're being uh pitched some special features and stuff. Now for the most part people are good at this type of ad. They're they're good at showing their features and their benefits, but they're not good at the first type of ad where you're, you know, generating curiosity and they're they're you're showing a visual of something that is so identifiable like a frozen uh ice cage for for your for your host pipe. So again, even with two simple visuals, you can target like all five stages of the awareness. Um and and of course you can do hyperargeting with keywords uh and pick the right keywords for for this this range so that you can uh reach those people uh more easily. So how do you do that though in a marketplace? How do you do that on a marketplace? Because on a marketplace like Amazon or Walmart, you have a single listing and that single listing yeah you have a few different video options and different things but you are you mixing different levels of awareness in each of the pictures? I know when you run the ads, you could target different people, but they're going to end up at the same places, which is basically where you they're that hyper where you want to to sell them, right? Now, if you're running Shopify or you're running your own blogs, your own stuff, you could have different landing pages and different gateways that are hyperargeted to each one of those. It's much easier to do. So, how do you do this? uh are you using the DSP and the the ads and video ads to to train them, but then when they click through that they go to a place that's at a diff trying to convert them at a different stage of awareness and so how do you balance this or how do you how do you handle that? Yeah. So on Amazon for example, we always use single funnel uh ads. So, if you have a video ad, we're leading them to a special purpose landing page where all we're doing is talking about that product and the depending on where they came from, which keyword combination, uh, we're just talking about that. So, I know it's it's very hard for for a lot of people to set up separate pages for, uh, you know, for the landing page, but that's the right thing to do. And so now on Amazon, you're you're doing that on Amazon. So different. So how are you doing a different landing page on Amazon because you have the storefront and you have the the PDP. Are you doing separate PDPs that target slightly different? They're different or how are you doing that? Yeah. So we have uh on the storefront you have the option of creating levels. So you can have the top menu item and then from within that you can go drill down to the second or third or fourth. And sometimes you can even target pages that are not even visible on the top. So we we create hidden pages like it's almost like a hidden page deep down in in the hierarchy and you send traffic to those pages. That's what we've been doing with our ads. Yeah. We don't show them the homepage ever. Like we never lead uh let's say a sponsored brand video ad. We never lead them to a homepage because a homepage has everything like all your products. It's so distracting. like they came in looking for one particular product and then you're showing them everything. That's like, you know, releasing a kind of a kid in a candy shop. They're like, "Oh, they have this, they have that, they have this." And then they get distracted. Norman Robins. That's when they when they have 32 flavors, I walk out. There you go. Yeah. So, that's the homepage. The 32 flavors of BaskinRobins is right there. So, you never want to do that. You never want to lead people to a general purpose page. You always need special purpose landing pages. And so that that's the way you control your audience. Uh otherwise, yeah, that that's how we we do it. And can you do that on Walmart, too? Can you do that on Walmart, too? Oh, Walmart. Uh no, Walmart not yet. I don't think so. Yeah. Yeah. Walmart is always several um years behind Amazon. So, so can we go back to the social media side of things? So, you were saying that, you know, you were doing different levels and showing uh just filling up the feed that hopefully you're going to hit somebody's um uh wherever they are at that um awareness level. Now, when we put out something on social media, we usually try to mix it up, try to use around seven different types of content. So, it could be a fact, it could be a recipe, it could be whatever it is. Do you do that with each of the layers? So you've got five time seven basically. So you know when you have a question like fact or myth for example this is intriguing. It is talking to uh perhaps uh level one or level two depending on how you word it. The copy also matters right. So you're kind of killing two birds with one stone right there. So that can be like your brand unaware or aware sorry problem unaware and problem aware uh audience. Um, and then you can mix that in with something different tomorrow. And or if you're posting several times a day, each of your posts can be uh speaking to a different audience. And that way you have rich content and no matter who like if they see it, they'll self-identify because that that's the idea of self-identification. All right. What about uh on timing? So, a lot of brands or sellers will go out there and they might not be hitting their market. They might be off, you know, they might be at a different level. How do you address this? Mhm. Yeah. So that's that's the whole point like uh everybody's going to be on different timing and you need to just find the the right timing by not finding out who these people are but you put putting out timing for different people who are ready for that level and you basically create a match right there. So if someone is uh even slightly aware of um you know uh your let's say your uh cigar group or something they they've heard about it or they're kind of aware and they're intrigued and now you present them you know if you present them with um like options about you know the what is it you guys are doing in uh October November something November 6th to 10th uh There we go. Shameless post anxiety. Yeah. So, so, so, so that post will mean nothing to someone who know who doesn't know you for example or doesn't even know that they could be enjoying like cigars with you guys or so. So, but the moment you put that uh out and the way you word it uh speaking to that particular audience that is uh you know kind of solution aware uh now they're just looking for the right products. They can see your product and they will they will want uh they will be interested in it. And the rest of the audience who uh don't care about cigars, they will just blow by it and that's fine. Uh they will see other pieces of content that are relevant to them. uh and and you know that way you can you can have many messages as well because there's many audiences. You don't you don't have one avatar, you actually have many, right? And so that's where people get confused. Yeah. Everybody loves cigars. Oh, there's one demograph you're you're going to come out and you're going to have at least cigars. It's about the people. It's about the people, not the cigars. Remember? So, yeah. There you go. Yeah, we're going to send you a personalized invitation. There you go. So, so, so yeah. So, so like that. See, the thing is most people think that they have one target audience. They don't. They don't. They have at least five or more because everybody is a different avatar. All these people in different levels of awareness are different avatars that you need to So, it sounds like you're controlling this now by ad spend, but where we're headed, and I've been studying this a lot. Norm and I are about to do a whole lot of stuff and probably be talking to you about well not probably we are going to be talking to you about this um is on the AEO AEO side of things where with I see you know Rufus is is just basic this is like I this is like the very first uh iPod that was a brick that held 10,000 songs that's what Roffus is where this is going the writing's on the wall and I've been studying this extensively we're about to see a massive shift and the people that are on the cutting edge of this are going to make a lot of money and going to help a lot of people and And what you're saying is fundamental I think and it just hit me when you're talking about this. It needs to be a core part of some of what we're doing is let them select themselves. Right now you're having to go find them with advertising. The way LLMs work is they they are looking for trust signals. So they're looking for social media posts and comments. They're reading Reddit posts. They're reading you Tik Tok stuff. They're looking for press releases. They're looking for um blog posts from reputable sites. They're looking for articles. So, what you should be doing is taking these five levels of awareness and actually putting out a massive amount of content, not to try to necessarily drive traffic as your first goal back to your site to make the sale. It's an investment into training these LLMs. And there's some other stuff you got to do here. I'm not going to go into right now because Norman, I have to keep that for Dragonfish. Um, but you I thought you were gonna spill the beans. But but you but you you do that and then these LLMs it's a long play. It's not a short it's not a short-term win. Um but it's a it's a long play and these LLM will start picking up on that. And when they make a suggestion as to when you go in and you type uh this hose thing that you're saying about you know it's going to be freezing up here in Canada. I need a a hose protector or hose thing to keep my stuff. And you type in that question. You want to be the only one that suggests because you've put out all these signals and no matter what stage the people are in, you've got it covered and that it's going to suggest you. And the LLM, there's new science that just came out that says that uh suggestions from an LLM convert at nine times uh the rate of an ad. Um and so it's crazy um right what you can do here. So these fundamental things is what people need to be paying attention to. the brands that are in this for the long term, not the ones that want a quick hack, a quick win, a quick whatever, they need to be doing this right now and and putting aside their budget that's there's no a cost or tacos or any of this other bull on on it deep they're actually investing in what actually is going to matter six months, two years, three years, whatever it may be from now. And still, like you said earlier, you still got to ride that line. Like you said, you know, this the Walmart and the Amazons are still doing the old search keyword game right now, but it's moving away from that pretty quick in in a at a decent clip. And as soon as they just got to make sure they don't mess up their ad side of stuff. That's that's you look what Google did with overlays uh right now, you know, and it's so I think it's I think what we're at in this new AI world is back to fundamentals. Uh and those are the people that are going to win are the ones that understand the core principles and the core fundamentals and then know how to use the tools whether that's AI or or whatever to actually make this happen at lightning speed. And with Like you said earlier, brainstorming these uh these uh you said it, the AI will give you the positionings, the statements if you feed it right and where you don't have to have a committee. It's not me, Norm, and you sitting in a room with a blackboard going, "All right, let's make a list and brainstorm right on the board and scratch them out." It's like the world's knowledge right there. I am Schwarz and the prompt starts that way. Exactly. You know, and get that information like why not? Are you guys there? Yeah. Yeah, we're here. We lost your video. We lost your video. Oh, lovely. I might have to reboot. You guys always just wanted to get rid of me. But but the reason I'm saying this is the the prompting of this. I mean, it's so great that you could actually go in and understand these five levels uh and reference Eugene Schwarz, you know, and get get that information. I actually created a GPT that is basically based on you Jane Schwart. So I in fact Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I want to give it away for free if if your audience is interested. But yeah. Okay. So okay I before I introduce the GPD is it okay? I I'll just go over uh the the how to market to each of these um five levels and then I'll get into the GPD. Okay. So I'll go real quick because now I've repeated this a bunch of times. I think people are getting familiar with the the terminology here. So for unaware audiences, the way to market is to identify pain points, spark curiosity and educate them about solutions. So it's all about like educationy stuff. Like you really want to spark them and and show them something that they didn't know. That's the first thing. Um then in the problem aware um uh segment you want to uh market to them by highlighting the problem back at them. So they will selfidentify the moment you say uh oh you know how this happens and they'll be like yeah yeah yeah they'll be nodding their heads internally and saying yeah yeah I get that that that's how this happens. So you highlight the problem back to them. For example, if you have let's say if you're targeting women uh who have uh like let's say using foundation or whatever you you're basically saying something like have you noticed how your foundation cakes up in 2 hours or something and they're like yeah yeah of course girl I know what you're talking about. So and then you and then then immediately after that you present the solution which is that I got you covered you know this foundation doesn't do that you know so that's quickly moving them from you know just that state of uh of of u just problem aware to now knowing where to go uh for the solution. Then uh the the third one is um solution aware people who know that there's solutions that exist. How to market to them? You basically uh provide them with comparisons because these guys already know that you have uh the solution that there's a solution out there. So now you just show them here's different types of you know uh magnesium supplements for example. they they will be able to compare them then and then that kind of post will generate uh a reaction because they they already know that they want a magnesium supplement. They only just don't know which one and so you're saying uh do you know which magnesium supplement is the right one for you? So that you know that comparison will kind of help them to again u be interested in what you're saying. Then let's talk about the uh product aware uh people. These guys already know that there's products that will solve their problem. They know exactly what type of products will solve their problems. And to market to these guys, you have to basically build trust cuz all you want to do is to move them to um just show highlight your successes and and say how you're you're better than competition. So that's how you stand out by saying did you know that you know our brand does X times better than these other brands because of blah blah blah. And so that's how you market to product aaware audiences. Are you looking to quickly boost new Amazon product launches or scale up existing listings to reach first page positioning? The influencer platform Stack Influence can help. That's right. Stack Influence pushes high volume external traffic sales straight to Amazon listings using micro influencers that you only have to pay with your products. They've helped upandcoming brands like Magic Spoon compete with Cheerios for top category positioning while also helping Fortune 500 brands like Unilver launch their new products. Right now is one of the best times to get started with Stack Influence. You can sign up at stackinfluence.com or click the link in this video down in the description notes below and mention Misfits. That's m i sf ts to get 10% off your first campaign. stackinfluence.com. And then how do you market to brandaw aware audiences? Uh honestly the best way to to target a brand aware audience is to create the sense of um urgency with initiatives like give them freebies or like you know tell them about new launches or anything because they already know you they already know your brand. So, for example, if you are selling Apple, uh like let's say you you are Apple and you're selling um iPhones, uh you just create urgency by saying our next iPhone drops on this date or whatever. That's the way to get those uh brand aware audiences uh be interested in your content. So, that's how you kind of market to all of them. Now I want to give away a free kind of um audience obsession ad prompts uh GPT um and uh I will uh share the link with you guys and you can put it in the links uh but basically what this does is that it'll take any piece of uh any product any one image and it'll generate five pieces of content for you. So for example, if you have let's say um like a microfiber cloth or something, uh it it'll generate different use cases uh and it essentially it'll uh it'll tell you uh you know h how best to target these five different uh levels and it even gives you a proof of concept with the visual, with the headline, what goes below, what the tagline should be, etc. So I'm happy to kind of share that with you guys and that way you can at least break that. Yeah. Do you want to show a demo for the people watching this on YouTube right now? Uh like a real quick like quick two minute for the people on. Yeah, that would be great. Give me one second. While you're doing that, I I have one other question for you thinking about too. So if you know you're out there fishing, so you're running these different stages of awareness on uh Facebook or on Tik Tok shop and you're hoping that it the algorithm shifts you into wherever these people are. But what if you have an email list of 50,000 people and say these are not all buyers. They haven't all bought your product, but they've expressed some sort of interest in something that you've done in the past. You don't know what stage they may be in for your new product. So, are you doing would you say that you need to do five different emails to these? I mean, the ones that have bought you you can send a separate segment them out, but the ones that have not bought yet, you don't know exactly which stage. So, you bring them in. Maybe they already know they're the the first stage they've already passed. So you start them at stage two and then you hit them with that list with a stage two, a stage three, and a stage four email. So hoping that that way you've at least reached them because if I send them all a stage two and they're not in that stage right now, they're going to ignore it. But if they're in stage three and I send them a stage three email, they're going to pay attention the stage two might ignore it. So what do what's your approach there? So you know, anyone that's um definitely you want to segment your audience the right way. So if if they are already brand aware, I've got just take a let's take a list of I get a list of uh 10,000 Amazon sellers. Let's say I have a list of 10,000 Amazon sellers and I just I got this from you. Let's say you said, "Hey, Kevin, share my list from my last webinar." I don't know how many of those people know who I am or or not. And so where do I where do I start? Do I Some of them probably already know me and very familiar. And so if I send them an email that says, "Hey, you should come to the BDSS." They're going to be like, "Yeah, I know about that. It's too expensive. I'm not coming." The other one's like, "What's BDSS? What's that? That sounds like some sexual thing." Uh BDSM, what what BDSS? What is it? Um so, but then others are like, "Yeah, I heard about that, but I don't know. I'm not quite at that level. I'm not sure if it's for me." So, they're at a different stage. So, how do you what do you do when you don't know? I understand the segmenting part, but when you don't know, what Yeah. How do you approach them? Wouldn't it wouldn't it start with an open rate? Like if somebody opens your email and then you know that they're interested. No, because uh Apple automatically opens all emails. So you can't you don't know that. Yeah, I would say subject line would be your best way of figuring out where they fall. like the subject line uh you know for example if your subject line is uh you know like a fact or myth kind of thing or uh did you know kind of thing then then that is like you know it's likely to be opened by someone who is unaware whereas some if you say um uh the BDSS registrations open this Friday for example uh people who who don't know you will probably ignore that they'll be like what BDS what I I get that. I get how you would tailor it to their stage, but Yeah. Yeah. But you don't know what stage they're in. So that means you got to send one email for each of those stages hoping that one of those lands. Basically, you have to Yeah. You have to do so much content so that one of them lands. Yeah. So much content that one of them lands. Yeah. And and everybody who is not in that stage will will either blow by it, they won't they'll ignore it. And that's fine because they're getting something from you. Uh and actually uh you might be doing this unknowingly already, right? Because I get a lot of email from you. Some of which I selfidentify with right away. I immediately open those. Uh whereas sometimes uh just to be honest, I I might read the subject line. I'm like, okay, this is not going to apply to me right now. Maybe I'll come back to it later, you know. So it's it's the more content you put out, the better. Like it's it's don't be afraid. I would say don't be afraid of putting up uh lots of content that speak to lots of different audiences and let them selfidentify. There's no I don't see a problem with uh with lots of pieces of content that speak to different uh people. I agree with you. I just wanted I just wanted you to say it. I agree. I just You're the master marketer. But but I'm I'm wondering is it possible? So, yeah, you might want to send out those five emails or whatever you want to do, but is it possible if you've got this general email that people are covering and you're hitting different points, different levels of awareness within the email and you see where they click. Well, that's what surveys are for. Ask the ask method. That Yeah, but I'm talking about topics, Kevin. Oh, okay. and you know and and how you phrase the topic so you kind of can gauge the people that are you know level one to level five throughout a longer email. So you know I also think that um you know your biggest funnel uh entry point is your title. So you'll get you you'll probably have to figure out what your title will be that encompasses all these different pieces. And I generally think that if you overload uh an an email with too many different pieces, then you're basically talking to no one. It's like talking to everyone, talking to no one kind of thing. So, I would tend to just keep one focus in a single email. Uh but if they know you then yes you can you know and if you have sub offers like you have your umbrella offer and that's you your brand and then within that you have sub offers for this or that then maybe u they can you know engage with different sections of of your of your content. Um but yeah I guess there's many creative ways to do it. There's no one single way. I would just ask JPT and say I want to do this. I want to do it with the Eugene shorts method. how do I go about it? It's probably going to give you a pretty good uh thing because all these um you know things written about uh Eugene Schwarz and his work are all indexed by LLM. They know it like the moment I said write it in the style of it it knows uh what what I'm talking about. So So you're saying it that I uh I had a good point. Hm. Kevin, absolutely. That's what copycoders does, Norm. The tool that we use that where you get the 20 different angles, 20 different positions. Each one of those subject lines is basically at a different uh tailor tail to a different uh point of trying to get that open. Uh and then the whole message uh validates the subject line. Basically, that's that's similar to what they're doing. Uh but it's what most people are not doing. Uh and that's where we started this with with Ritu's saying and she sees it with clients all the time and her agency that that they're just clueless. Uh and it's because I think a lot of people in ecom don't come from marketing. There are people who quit a job uh you know they were I don't know trash man they quit their job or they were working corporate somewhere uh and they quit their job and they fell into this. They don't come from a marketing background and I think that's that's why there's a big gap in e-commerce for actual real marketing. Yeah, I totally agree. I have your uh presentation here. Okay, great. Yeah. So, I have an example here. Oh, awesome. Let me know if uh you can see my screen. Yeah, I can. Yeah. Okay. Um yeah, so basically this GPD that I was talking about uh will take a piece of um anything any image that you have like one product and it's going to spit out five different pieces of content that um uh essentially speak to the five levels of awareness. So, if you look at it, this one, the first one, we're saying uh hey, uh like most towels use 100ear techund 100-y old technology uh slow to dry, quick to stink, and somehow still in your bathroom. So, that's kind of a nice hook for someone who is unaware uh and you're trying to educate them. So, it's almost like an educational piece that you know some this is what's happening to towels. Uh they use old technology. So, you're intrigued. You're like, "Oh, so there is a new technology. Like, what is what is it?" And so then it says, "Time for a towel glow up, right?" So that's a microfiber towel uh totally unaware audiences for people who don't know that they need it, right? Then you have the um the uh problem aware because they when they wipe their kitchen uh counters with um you know just paper towels, they get wet, ripped, and it's just gross on the hands. Uh and then you're just simply saying there's a better way. So again, this is identifying the pain point and then just showing them the better way and that's how you kind of get their attention and they go straight into your funnel. This third one is for um uh pro so problem aware solution aware. So these guys have they know about microfers and now you're saying tired of microf fibers that underdel because now they're in that frame of mind where they're comparing options, right? So, you're saying our premium towels absorb more, last longer, and never leave lint behind. So, you're basically highlighting some good qualities uh of your microfiber towel, and then they can they can see that you're better or the fact that you've self-claimed that better spot uh makes them wonder if you're if you're right, and they probably will believe you. I think a lot of marketing uh you know that begins with some sort of audacious um kind of stance of how we're better it actually helps because whether you're better or not they'll believe that you're better because you said so right um then um the the the fourth uh stage here is uh product aware so product aware this is uh what charge GPT spit out is still thinking about it thousands have already made the switch durable extra absorbent, worth it. So, here you're basically, you know, just kind of telling them that um you know, you don't need to be uh you know, there's other people who've done it. So, it's like a testimonial that you're kind of saying, uh this has been proven. Uh this is a good uh option. Uh why why are you still thinking about it? Let's move on. Right? And then the last one, it's it know it's almost like reading your mind. It's saying you already know it's the one because they've already encountered your brand. they already know uh your product and you're saying you already know it's the one. Don't wait. Your favorite microfiber towel is ready when you are. So that's kind of how the messaging goes down uh from the the five levels. And imagine having a GPT that allows you to do this uh and it can generate endless copy like this framework with endless copy and you can pick the one that makes the most sense. Now obviously you can give it more information uh you can guide it you can create guardrails around it and just use AI for coming up with this uh these mockups and whether you use use them as mockups or some sometimes they're even good enough for like prime time you can you can just use them as is uh of course you can kind of tell them that um I wanted a certain size give me aspect ratio 1 is to1 or whatever but anyway this GPT will do it for you it it'll take you through the five levels and it'll generate um a prompt that you can put into uh GPT4 with image and it generates the image for you. So uh hopefully that was helpful. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, there we go. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. That was cool. So yeah, this So I think the the moral of the story here is get back to fundamentals. makes me I've got two full bookcases here of marketing books. It makes me want to go back and start reading them uh to refresh my memory on some of these fundamental things and like, oh wow, that's right. I remember that from 20 years ago. I need to do that. I can Oh, cool. I can do this with AI now. Really, really cool. Um that's that's that's really awesome. Hey, Kevin King and Norm Ferrar here. If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits, thanks for listening this far. Continue listening. We got some more valuable stuff coming up. Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player. Or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify, make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of The Marketing Misfits. Have you subscribed yet, Norm? Well, this is an old guy alert. Should I subscribe to my own podcast? Yeah, but what if you forget to show up one time and it's just me on here? You're not gonna know what I say. I'll I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair, too. We'll just You can go back and forth with one another. Yikes. But that being said, don't forget to subscribe, share it. Oh, and if you really like this content, somewhere up there there's a banner. Click on it and you'll go to another episode of The Marketing Misfits. Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm. Oh, I'm glad. Yeah, it was the same. It hit me the same way uh when I started digging into the stuff. We've got to go back to the fundamentals, right? Marketing fundamentals. That's and it's a great time for doing that because previously we were kind of enslaved to this whole idea of like keyword ranking or some very you know kind of micro tactic of like yes all of those are still important but like you were saying earlier Kevin we need to train the algorithms now it's in our hands to train the algorithms with superior content and rich content that that speaks uh to to so many different people so that we don't know where it comes from but we need that visibility. I think you also have to train the entrepreneur or the seller because they're trained on keywords and keyword stuffing and you know everything that comes with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's frustrating because a lot of times they'll be so stuck in their ways. It takes them six months to a year to kind of shift gears even a little bit. You know, that's what I've noticed like I don't see people springing into action. In fact, they're opposing it. They're saying no, no, this is not true. who uses Rufus and you know things who uses uh AI for searching products and stuff like that. I I don't think I agree with Kevin and Norm you guys. Yeah, you guys have been uh you know thought leaders in the space and I totally agree with your stance here. So who do you where where does the needle go? Over to Kevin or over to Norm like uh it goes in this direction. Jeez, that's a broken needle. I think that needle is broken. Yeah, I do too. Need to recalibrate, huh? Get this thing recalibrated. Okay, we're at the top of the hour and uh we have one question. We always have one question for our guest or our misfit. Do they know a misfit? You know, I really admire Molly Pitman. I don't know if you guys have already met her or she's a Facebook guru. like I just love her and uh she yeah I followed her work for a very long time. So if you happen to have a chance to I don't personally know her but I follow her all the time. So okay very good. All right everybody. So uh let's see. Oh we forgot one thing. Your contact. Oh yeah. Okay. So um yeah my uh email is v2pbcninja.com. That's the best way to get in touch with me. But you can follow me on LinkedIn, uh, R2 Java, my full name. And, uh, I post a lot of content there. Uh, you can also go to ppcninja.com. Not the other PPC Ninja. There's another PPC Ninja. It's 10 minutes from my house. I can't believe it. I traced them down. Yeah, there's another PPC Ninja. They do Google ads only. And when we search for PPC Ninja, we always kind of see both our listings up. So, ah, whatever. But anyway, so this is ppcninja.com and uh uh we do advertising. We're an agency and um yeah, uh hit me up if you have any questions, readpinja.com. And if you got JavaScript questions especially, right? Yeah. Uh we'll see. I'll pass them on to my LLM assistant and give you an answer. Well, thanks for coming on, Rich. This has been fun. Thank you so much. Take care. Take care. Bye, guys. going to move you. All right. One of these days. Here we go. All right. Yeah, that that that's good stuff. I think it you and I have been both saying it for a while. You got to get back to the fundamentals. Uh and it's almost you got to know the fundamentals. You got to know the fundamentals. And it's almost like, you know, people have been poo pooing your press release. You have a press release company. And you've been you've been hyping that for years. Like, look guys, this works. This is, you know, it's not an instant thing. You're not going to like put a press release out and all of a sudden make a million bucks that people expect. But you do this you do this consistently and look where it's going to go. It's going back to it's it's it's coming back around. And that's why like at BDSS, you remember in Iceland uh I changed it from the hacks contest which to the smart marketer smart marketing contest because I'm like hacks are not where it's at anymore. It's more core fundamental things. So I think uh RT is on to something uh there and I think everybody listening needs to be rewind this and pay attention to what what she was saying and implement and implement. That's the key is implement. Don't go nod your head like most of us do when we're sitting in a conference. Take some notes and never look at them again. Uh but actually implement. Oh, did you say implement? Uh I said I said implement. Yeah, that's a big word. It is. Can you spell Can you spell that? Nope. Multi-elabic words. I keep away from You can smell that. I can It'll be more like implants or something. Yeah, it's uh No, that's that's good stuff. Ru is always uh always sharp and always got some good stuff. Um u cool. Well, you know, if you like good stuff, where can they find good stuff, Norm? Uh I think they can find it at marketingmisfits podcast. What do you think? Yeah, the marketing misfits podcast. Marketing Misfits.co. right dark marketingmisfits.co or they can head over to YouTube and we have two channels. One for the long form and that's under marketing misfits podcast, one for clips that are 3 minutes and under and that's marketing misfits clips. We also have a uh a Tik Tok channel that's uh doing actually quite well right now. That's it. If uh you like this episode, be sure to share it with a friend that might benefit from uh listening to it or check us out every Tuesday. Hey, brand new episodes come out every single Tuesday on Spotify, on Apple, on YouTube. And like Norm said, check us out on the interwebs, too. Especially if you want to see Ritu's little demo of what she showed here. If you're listening to this audio, you can see that in the video version on YouTube. Other than that, uh we're out. We'll see you again uh next Tuesday. See you later, everybody. Take care. Ciao. [Music]