#632 - Life-Saving Amazon Business

#632 - Life-Saving Amazon Business Bradley Sutton: Today we've got a newer seller who talks about how he started on Amazon. It all started by trying to develop products to be able to save his own dog and that launched a brand for him that even got him on the radar of Amazon who's featured his story on their website. How cool is that? Pretty cool, I think. Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Serious Sellers Podcast by Helium 10. I'm your host, Bradley Sutton, and this is the show that's a completely BS-free, unscripted and unrehearsed, organic conversation about serious strategies for serious sellers of any level in the e-commerce world. And for the first time on Serious Sellers Podcast in English, not the first time Serious Sellers Podcast overall because he's been on our Spanish one, we've got Santiago in the house. How's it going, Santiago? Santiago Gelvez: Really good, really good. I appreciate you having me over. Bradley Sutton: Now, where are you located? You just said it was like 9.30 p.m. over there. Where are you at right now? Santiago Gelvez: I'm in Paris, France. Bradley Sutton: So, this is your first time on the show. Let's dive in to how you got there. Santiago Gelvez is not exactly a French name there. So, where were you born and raised? Santiago Gelvez: Yes, I was born and raised in Colombia. I went to high school in Colombia and after high school, I moved to the States and went to universities there. I worked for Procter & Gamble for a few years. I was in Bogota for the rest of my life. Bradley Sutton: I was 19 when I moved to the States. Santiago Gelvez: It was mainly because I wanted to go to an aviation school, right? And I actually got my first degree in aviation maintenance. So, I used to work for fixed planes. I used to work for VHL and fix their planes and stuff like that. But then, you know, everything changed when everything became kind of like a union in the aviation industry and then I was not a big fan of the union. So, I switched to business and I got my degree in business. Where did you go? I went to Xavier University in Cincinnati for my undergrad. Bradley Sutton: I know that mascot. What is the mascot there? Santiago Gelvez: The Musketeers. Bradley Sutton: The Musketeers, yes. They've always had a good basketball team. Santiago Gelvez: March Madness is my month. Bradley Sutton: There you go. Did you get a bachelor's degree from there then? Santiago Gelvez: Yes, I got a bachelor's degree there and then right when I graduated, that's when Procter & Gamble offered me a position and I worked for Procter & Gamble for about 15 years really developing their brands and doing some We're a global expansion for the USA brands into Asia. It's a great, great, great company. Great learnings and really built me up on really how to develop a brand from scratch to a multi-billion brand. Bradley Sutton: You were working a full-time job for Procter & Gamble and then from there you went to another company or you started being an entrepreneur or what was the transition? Santiago Gelvez: One of the times that I was working for Procter & Gamble, that's when I moved to Phoenix, Arizona, and I got my grad school there in Phoenix for Thunderbird. And once I finished that, I actually worked for PepsiCo for about three years as a director of the C&G convenience and gas channel. In the USA and then after that I did work for ADM on the supplements arena for humans. At the time, that's the time that my dog got sick and it pretty much lead me into really deep dive down into the pet industry and how to really help my dog because he got a bacteria in his bloodstream and I was just trying to come out with a solution and nothing on the shelf was really working. Bradley Sutton: What year are we talking about right now? Santiago Gelvez: That was three years ago, so that was 2022. And you were still in the U.S. Bradley Sutton: at this time or you were already in Europe? Santiago Gelvez: I was in the U.S., I was in the U.S., yes. Bradley Sutton: Okay, so you're working for a company and then your dog started having these health issues and then so at the time you were just looking into like solutions just for yourself as a consumer to like help your dog out and then so what did that lead to? Santiago Gelvez: Yeah, so then nothing was really helping him and one of my friends was a vet and he told me like, listen, this is what's happening in the market. The probiotics that are right now in the market are probiotics or good bacteria that doesn't survive when it gets to the digestive tract of the dog. Because of X amount of reasons, I was like, man, let's just save my dog, man. Let's do whatever it takes. Bradley Sutton: You have no kids, right? Santiago Gelvez: No, no kids. Bradley Sutton: Your dog is like your kid. Santiago Gelvez: Yeah, he's my kid. Yeah, Tango. He's right now 14 years old and kicking, so I'm happy about that. Yeah, bring your spaniel. I was working for this company at the time that I was doing the research and building this formula to save the dog. We created some samples, we gave it to the dog and that was the only thing to help them. So that was a huge shift in my life when I said like, listen, I always wanted to have my own thing. This is, I mean, sad that my dog got sick, but this is a huge opportunity that it was brought upon me by destiny and have a new formula that is actually going to help the dogs. And we build it in my quick my job and literally just 100% interpreter. Bradley Sutton: So you're working full time full time employment now. Were you like, I'm just going to focus on this or I'm just going to quit my job with no income yet on Amazon or did you already start getting Amazon or other online income or were you just like, no, I got to focus on this and that's why I quit my job or you quit your job because you already started having some replacement income? Santiago Gelvez: No, no, I have a mentality that I was going to be perfect to cross the road. So if I start like tasting the waters, I might just do 10% here and then 10% there. So my mentality was like, let's just go full on, right? So I can really focus on it. So, I quit my job and then within two months is when I launched my brand. Bradley Sutton: And now are we still about three years ago or where are we at about? Santiago Gelvez: Yeah, about two and a half years ago when we launched. Bradley Sutton: So, you had some savings. I would assume, you know, like it's not like your bank account was zero and you're just like, oh, I'm going all in and if I become homeless, I'm homeless. But okay, you had some savings and then you're like, let's do it. And then, manufactured in USA or? Santiago Gelvez: Yes. Yes. In Oklahoma City. So, it's really close to Dallas. Yes. Where I was based at the time. And yes. No. So, I had some savings and I just wanted to give it, you know, a hundred percent. Don't half-ass it, you know. I just went for it and it's a decision that I would never regret. I am the happiest guy. I'm helping dogs. The best gratification thing is seeing comments and emails from dog owners when they say like, oh my God, Max is back in action or my dog is not having digestive problems anymore. It's like, man, those things are so gratifying. It just makes me happy. Bradley Sutton: I don't get those messages by selling coffin shelves. I can't relate. So then what was your first full calendar year of selling? Was 2023 or that was in the middle of 2023 you started, so was 2024 your first full calendar year? Santiago Gelvez: Full calendar year was 2023. Okay. Full calendar year, yes. Bradley Sutton: And then how did you do in sales that first year? Santiago Gelvez: I mean, it was about $40,000. You know what I mean? It was really starting up. Bradley Sutton: So then for profit then, you know, that's not enough obviously to have replaced your job. So like, did you just have lots of savings or did you have to like get other forms of income or how was the transition like then? Santiago Gelvez: Yeah, no, I had some savings. I had some savings that kind of kept me going until like we have more profitable, sustainable growth. At the beginning, especially for the supplements, It takes a lot of education to the consumer and it's a really competitive arena and there's also the other factor of you have to really understand if any of the listeners are in the supplements arena. You always have to keep in mind the lifetime value of the product, right? You might not make money on the first, you know, bag that you sell, but when the people come back and they continue to replenish their product, that's where you actually become sustainable. So, it does take some time to be able to, one, educate, and second, to be able to be profitable with the lifetime value of the consumer. Bradley Sutton: BlackBox by Helium 10 houses the largest database of Amazon products and keywords in the world outside of Amazon itself. We have over 2 billion products and many millions more keywords from different Amazon marketplaces from USA to Australia to Germany and more. Use our powerful filters to search through this database for pockets of opportunity that you might want to get into with your first or next product to sell on Amazon. For more information go to h10.me forward slash black box. Don't forget you can save 10% off for life on Helium 10 by using our special code SSP10. Before we get back into Amazon, I didn't see a part of the story like what brought you to Europe? What made you move to Europe then? Santiago Gelvez: It was more of a personal reason. I met a girl in Paris. Bradley Sutton: That sounds like a Netflix TV show or something. Santiago Gelvez: Yes, but things in life happen for a reason. When I moved to Europe, I started realizing the cost per acquisition for the consumers are way, way less. Why? Because the supplements arena It's more restricted here in Europe, so not all the brands actually are able to come in. So with less competition, the cost of customization is actually lower than in the States. So, that's one of the reasons like, okay, we're at a long-term growth. I'm here in Europe. It's something that I really want to kind of leverage is being able to leverage a lower cost per acquisition to be able to expand the business. Bradley Sutton: So, have you launched already in Europe or you're still planning to or you did already? Santiago Gelvez: Nope. Yeah. When did you start that? That was about three weeks ago. We started. Yeah, brand new. We literally just started. We are in UK. In UK, we are in a field by merchant from the USA, which is not sustainable because we're waiting for the VAT to come in for UK. For France, we are already FBA. Bradley Sutton: Now, is it the same ASINs or do you have to do different ASINs due to like maybe different formulation or different requirements or packaging or things like that or are you using the same exact ASINs as the U.S. marketplace? Santiago Gelvez: Yes, yes. That's a really good question. I am using the same exact ASIN for a couple of reasons. One is just the ability for Amazon to I share the reviews from one country to another. It makes it so much easier for your conversion rate in the new markets, right? So, that's something that I really wanted to leverage. The other reason why I was able to do that is because the formula that I have in the U.S. was the one, it's like the same one that was accepted here. So, I didn't have to change anything. I was really lucky about that. I am using the same essence all across Europe right now. There's really a huge benefit about it. That's something that I would recommend for any of the listeners. If you are in the supplements arena, try to continue with the same essence because that will help tremendously your conversion rate as you move forward with all the marketplaces. Bradley Sutton: Now, on the U.S. side, how long did it take to get profitable? Santiago Gelvez: A year. A year. In the supplements, yes. Mainly because education, bringing in a new brand, it's always challenging. It takes a lot of education. People don't want to just keep, like, my dog is my kid, right? It's the same for the pet parent, right? They want to make sure they're cautious. They want to make sure there's nothing that is going to even harm the dog, right? So it does take a lot of education, but after you see it in the orders in In Amazon, when like, okay, this username already had like 20 purchases, 30 purchases, it's like, okay, so then you build in the loyalty there and that's something that it takes time. So, for example, like a year to really become profitable in the supplementary. Bradley Sutton: Your story was also featured on the Amazon website where it talked about your brand and stuff and then I believe in there, in my notes here that someone gave me, it says, that even like 60% now of your purchases, I think, are from Subscribe and Save. Is that an accurate? Santiago Gelvez: Yes, it is the bread and butter. The Subscribe and Save is a tool that Amazon gives us. I see a price list. As soon as anybody sells a supplement there, if you are a new brand, especially in the private label, As soon as you can get into the subscribe and save, that's something that I highly recommend because they spend more money and more loyalty. You do have some drop-offs there because people sign up and then they just want to get the extra discount for the first order and then they don't come back and then you see them coming back later on but it's definitely bread and butter for the business. Bradley Sutton: So then was that the key? of maybe why it took a long time for you to be profitable is because your cost of acquisition was very high with PPC, but then as the subscribe and save grew, then it helped your profitability? Exactly. So then like pet supplements is very similar then to human supplements where your cost per click probably is insane, but then you're just like banking on getting that recurring revenue from the subscriptions. Santiago Gelvez: Exactly, exactly. That's the long-term value and that's why I was mentioning you might not make much money on the first or second box mainly because of the cost per click is a really competitive arena. I mean probably supplements is one of the highest cost per click categories that are out there in the Amazon. It's definitely something that you have to keep in mind if any of the listeners are in the supplements and private label. It's like probably not the first box but the loyalty and the subscribe and save tools that Amazon gives you is actually something that is definitely going to help you become profitable. Bradley Sutton: Is there anything you could have done differently you think in retrospect to become profitable faster? Not a lot of people are patient like you who can wait a year. To become profitable, would you have changed something or is this kind of like, hey, you gotta be, if you're gonna get into supplements, a very competitive niche, you gotta be prepared for a year-long battle to build up your customer base. Santiago Gelvez: Yes, yes, that's a really good question. I think something that I would recommend is For the founders or owners of the brands, keep in mind that you have to test the waters with your formulas and you have to make sure that you're going to have really good feedback from the consumer. Luckily, I was there, but something to keep in mind is the cash flow, right? If you buy a lot of product from the manufacturer at once, because the more you buy, the cheapest they're going to give you the product, right? So then if you're trying to maximize your process right from the get-go and try to get the cheapest product, or like the most economical price by buying bulk, but then you don't have the terms enough to be able to sell all that product and it expires, then you're going to have a lot of scrape, right? Because this product, it does expire. So something that I would recommend for brands to start up, especially in the supplements arena, is keep in mind You might not get the lowest cost if you buy less, but at least if you start with orders that are smaller, then you can start really learning how much your product is going to be turning, then eventually you can estimate more or better before your product expires. So that's something that I would highly recommend on the cash flow and how much they buy right from the get-go so they can really test the water. You might have to pay a little bit more at the beginning by buying lower quantities, But eventually, it's going to pay out in the long run as you really start learning what are going to be your terms of your product and each one of the formulas, which one's going to be lower, which one's going to be faster, et cetera. Bradley Sutton: Let's talk about your pricing strategy. I was just looking at your storefront. I see every single one, you've got the strikethrough price. And now, unless there's an Amazon error, does that mean that at the list price, you have gotten purchases there in the last 90 days at that list price? Or how are you able to maintain that strikethrough. Santiago Gelvez: Price yeah so i have a so during the holiday season i was actually selling at thirty four ninety five. And now that we see the January, I did lower it to $29.95 to be able to continue to increase the turns. So, it's really psychological when you see the $29.95. Once you cross that price cliff to $30, the $3.00, you do make more profit, but your turns go down, right? So, I've been able to do that stride through mainly just because during the October, November Q4, I was at $34.95. But now I'm switching the strategy into $29.95 in order to be able to turn more of the volume. Bradley Sutton: And then it says here, extra 30% off when you subscribe. So, is that a coupon that you always have on or that's just a promo that you have going on now? Santiago Gelvez: That's always on. Bradley Sutton: And that is only on the first order if they start it and then after that it's just like the standard 5 or 10% discount or something like that? Santiago Gelvez: Exactly, exactly. I mean, 90% of the people maintain once they get a coupon. I mean, you do see some drop-offs, but they continue to stay there. And this is a product that it has 30 sachets or 30 packs inside. So, it actually lasts 30 days. So, every 30 days, they pretty much come back unless they have two dogs or three dogs. That's a strategy to have 30% off right from the first order and then after that, it's a regular discount. Bradley Sutton: The first product you told us is the story of how you made it. Was it the probiotics? Was that your first product? Santiago Gelvez: The daily one, yes. Bradley Sutton: Were all of your subsequent products also you had your own dog in mind or you were doing just general market research and trying to figure out how to expand the brand or what was the origin story of some of your other products that you started selling? Santiago Gelvez: So, with Tango, so the daily was the original formula that I used with Tango. And when Tango had it, we were battling some fur, some skin issues that he had. So, then with the vet was like, okay, you need to give him omega-6 and omega-3s, but give him with the probiotics so he helps absorb the omega-3s and omega-6s. So, it's kind of like If you eat omega-3s and omega-6s, but it doesn't get absorbed by the body, then it's going to go out the other way. It's not going to be beneficial, right? So then that's why doing the combo probiotics with the incremental ingredient, that's what helps the overall health. So I had that. So there was ingredients, but then on the side for that, I was giving him omega-6 and omega-3. So then he gave me the idea of like, well, why don't I just have the original product, but then let's have three extensions. of the probiotics with the incremental ingredient to help absorb. The combo will help absorb the nutrition. So, I did some research with Euromonitor and other sources and I did see that the calming was one of the biggest problems that were there for the pet owners. Another one was the heaping joint, especially for senior dogs and the omega-3s and omega-3s for allergies and skin problems. So, that's why I came out with, okay, well, let's expand. From what we have, which was the one formula that I had, into the four, based on the fact that, one, with Tango, I was giving him omega-3 and omega-6 on the side, on top of the product. And then, for the other two, is the calming and the heaping joint, it was mainly from the resources that I saw. It was the developing market and developing opportunity. Bradley Sutton: I noticed on your storefront here, you actually put yourself and Tango, like front and center a lot here. Was that something you decided early on? This is like a Hollywood level storefront here with some of the lighting and stuff. Santiago Gelvez: That's my house in Dallas. It was something that I really wanted to share. I launched this brand really because I really wanted to improve the health and improve the dogs and share a solution to a problem that I had before that I didn't have a solution to. So I did hire a marketing company to do that little short video and how we came to life. It was an investment to be able to communicate this story. Bradley Sutton: Are you doing any kind of promotions to your store followers? I see you're doing Amazon, just looking all over your store here. I see you are doing some Amazon post and things like that. Are you able to leverage your store followers at all with advertising? Santiago Gelvez: I can follow with the Amazon, the followers in Amazon. I mean, we can do the promotions and then the people that lapse, the people that haven't bought yet or they visited but they didn't buy, so you can create those promotions to really retarget them. But that just pretty much limits, I mean, unless there's something that I don't know, but you cannot I can target anybody within the Amazon ecosystem, right? Bradley Sutton: Are you building off Amazon community at all or like do you have social media presence off of Amazon? Are you doing like insert cards to build this up, etc.? Santiago Gelvez: Yes, yes. I do have a direct-to-consumer website, PetCultures.com. I have the Instagram and the Facebook. They are great tools to really create awareness, to be fully transparent. A lot of times, I see that we create some advertisement in Instagram and Facebook. They even go to the website. But then, a lot of times, they actually end up buying on Amazon. For X amount of reasons, right? I think they just like the two-day delivery or one-day delivery or they just feel more comfortable especially because it's a new brand. But yeah, the long-term strategy is eventually to continue to grow. I'm the PetCultures.com audience. Right now, we have about 2,000 followers in mailing list and also in the Instagram and Facebook. But that's something that we also do try. We also do have the Instacarts that you mentioned inside of the packs. They say learn a little bit more about education and tricks to help your dog's health, right? And they have the QR code and eventually takes them to our blogs. Then we constantly kind of continue updating tricks and stuff like that for the pet care. We try to build a community that way, yes. Bradley Sutton: What percentage of your revenue is from Amazon USA right now as opposed to website or anything else that you're doing? Santiago Gelvez: Amazon USA, I would say probably about 70%. Bradley Sutton: Okay, that's lower than I thought. So where's the other 30? Is it mainly from your website? Are you on other platforms? Santiago Gelvez: 10% on the website and also 10% on the website PetCultures.com, also 10% on the website PetCultures.com.mx which is the Mexico side. We had some great success in Mexico. Bradley Sutton: How are you fulfilling the Mexican orders? By the way, for those watching on YouTube, I'm wearing one of my Mexican baseball. My parents have a house in Mazatlan in Mexico and this is the team over there. I wanted to go red for today's theme. But anyway, so if I'm in my parents' house, I need to get something for my dog. Down there, I go to your Mexican website. Where is that order coming from? Where is it shipping from? Santiago Gelvez: So, we manufacture the product in Oklahoma City and then from that point, we ship it to Querétaro. And in Querétaro, we have 3PL. They carry the inventory and once we get an order from a consumer in Mexico, then the 3PL ships it directly to the location of the consumer. Bradley Sutton: Are you doing FBA in Amazon Mexico too or is that one just fulfilling from U.S.? Santiago Gelvez: Right now we're not doing Amazon Mexico right now. We are just fulfilling PetCultures. There was a little bit of The Mexican regulatory in Amazon, it's a little bit more disorganized than it is in Amazon USA. So, there was just like a little headwinds there. They failed. Because this is our ingredient, this is a probiotic that we pretty much developed for the dogs, but they're recognized as a medication. In Mexico, but they're not recognized as a medication in the USA or any other country. So then what happened is when we launched there, they say, oh, no, no, these ingredients are medication. I'm like, no, they're not medication. So we're going back and forth with them right now to really clarify that because it's just there's a supplement. It's not a medication. So right now we're just leveraging The PetCultures.com.mx website orders, although we clarify that with Amazon Mexico, yeah. That's mainly what it is, yeah. Bradley Sutton: Favorite Helium 10 tool? Santiago Gelvez: I really think the key tracker is the bread and butter. It really lets you know the performance of your keywords. It's really important for you to know how you do it and how you How you're tracking and I think something that, I don't know if this has been rolled out to all the levels, but the heat map in the heat tracker I think is priceless because it does let you see the trend and the graphic, the colors. I'm a visual type of person, right, to be fully transparent. So being able to see the things going more towards the right way or even going towards the right path, it really kind of screams to me of like, okay, this is what we need to focus on this. We need to focus on that. But there is, I mean, a lot of great tools that Helium 10 there has. I mean, Atomic, it just saves so much time to be able to create and even from your list of items or list of products or keywords that you're tracking, pretty much automatically create some campaigns. Actually, I think it just saves a lot of time versus going into the Seller Central and doing one by one and it's time consuming, especially when you're selling and managing a couple markets at once. Saving time is really important and the accuracy of it, so it's pretty neat. Bradley Sutton: Now, some people might think Helium 10 Elite, hey, that's only for seven, eight-figure sellers who've been selling for years. You're a somewhat newer seller. You've been an elite member, so how has it benefited you as a newer seller being part of that community? Santiago Gelvez: Oh, my God. I mean, tremendously because I feel that it's a community, right? We have that touch base on the Fridays and it's kind of like more sharing. We don't only strictly talk about Helium 10, right? We talk about things that have worked, things that haven't. For example, last Friday we were talking about, hey, there are some reviews there that are not relevant to the product itself, but we got one or two stars. They're talking about shipping or they're talking about something completely irrelevant of it. So, then there's like another person that proposes like, oh yeah, use this company to actually get those reviews to be removed because they're not relevant to the product itself. So, just sharing reapply with all the elite members, I think it's just really priceless and really get to know what other headwinds, other sellers are having. It makes you feel that you're not alone as well, right? So it's a really good community. I really enjoy it. Bradley Sutton: Alright, well if anybody wants to join and be on these calls with Santiago, h10.me forward slash elite and you guys can join that community. Well, I'll be seeing you in just a little bit because we're going to be in Germany next week at Elite Workshop. We have quarterly in-person workshops. If anybody wants to join who are not Elite member, you can get more info h10.me forward slash Berlin. You'll be able to meet Santiago in person and myself, Kevin King, will be there. So depending on when you're listening to this, this will be on January 24th. So there's still some time to get tickets. There might have been a 50% off coupon, but still, it's under 100 euros to go. Obviously, elite members don't have to pay if they go, but it'd be cool to see anybody out there if you guys are in Europe. Now, what's the future hold? You're in the process now of launching across different European marketplaces. Are you going to keep expanding out this brand, try and start a different brand, go on other platforms? We're here at the beginning of 2025. If we were to have a podcast, which hopefully we are, beginning of 2026, what would you like to be able to have said you accomplished this year? Santiago Gelvez: The ways to grow the brand is you got to get more people to buy your product or either to become more profitable with the same users. Something that I'm really focusing on for 2025 is really leveraging the Pan Europe program that Amazon has, that it actually lets you expand throughout Europe, which will allow me to reach all the European markets with only two VATs. registrations. So this is a huge opportunity that I'm really focused on 2025 to be able to to to leverage the European market as much as possible. And so that's what I'm looking forward to it, which reaches market. Also, because it's an educated market, they will also have the funds for it to for to to, you know, To take care of their pets, let's just say that. But that's definitely something that I'm really trying to reach that and leverage the lower CPA than North America has. So that's something I'm really focusing on as of 2025. Bradley Sutton: If you were to give a 30-second tip or some kind of strategy, it could be about a foreigner living in Europe, it could be about Amazon, it could be about supplements, it could be about taking care of pets, anything at all, what strategy would you like to close this out with? Santiago Gelvez: I was thinking about that. I'm actually going to steal the strategy that I learned from our friend Kevin King last when we were in Seattle back in September. He made a presentation and say that when you really develop a brand and you want to make sure that you search for a product and you're trying to do a private label, start with the two-second story that you're going to really tell your consumers and that is going to help you convince them, right? I think having that, having the two, let's start with the marketing video, with the two seconds that is really going to help embrace and convert the consumers. If you start with that, I think the other things will kind of pull together. A lot of times it's an afterthought, believe it or not. For me, it was actually an afterthought. And then I realized, like, shoot, man, this is the most important key. Start with that. You know, we always say, start with the ending mind. Well, why don't we, if we say start with the ending mind, why don't we just start with the two seconds video that is really going to help convert the people? I think that was a really priceless recommendation that Kevin King did back in September in Seattle and I think that's something that I really want to echo for private label owners that are going to launch. I want to start with the two seconds video. What is your product going to be so different that you can tell in two seconds and it's going to help you convert your consumers? So I think that's something that I really want to echo. Make sure I echo and share with everyone there. Bradley Sutton: I like it. I like it. All right. Well, Santiago, thank you so much for joining us. And we'll be seeing you in just a little over a week here. And then, like I said, hopefully 2026, let's bring you back and let's see how many of those things that you have on your list that you've accomplished and maybe even some more. Santiago Gelvez: Sounds like a plan. So I'm looking forward to it.