#453 - TikTok Shop Secrets: How Influencers & Algorithms Are Rewriting E-Commerce

TikTok Shop Strategy and Success welcome to episode 453 of the AMM podcast You know social commerce is blowing up and especially when it comes to Tik Tok as a discovery platform Amazon's tried to replicate it with Inspire and they just can't do it But Tik Tok as a discovery platform the new infomercial or the new credibility builder for brand new brands or and existing brands is huge I know someone I just met someone recently doing $21 million in sales for pants per year on Tik Tok It it's crazy what it can do But there's a strategy and a certain way that you got to do it And that's what we're going to talk about today And we're going to talk strategy and actionable stuff that you can do to really blow up your opportunities when it comes to selling on Tik Tok and Tik Tok shop Enjoy Welcome to the AM PM podcast Welcome to the AM PM podcast where we explore opportunities in e-commerce We dream big and we discover what's working right now Plus plus this is the podcast where money never sleeps Working around the clock in the AM and the PM Are you ready for today's episode I said are you you ready Ready Let's do this Let's do this Here's your host Here's your host Kevin Kevin King [Music] Thinking about selling a Tik Tok shop Or maybe you are already in it and you're ready to scale Unlock all of Helium 10's brand new Tik Tok shop tools with our diamond plan Everything from bulk Amazon to Tik Tok listing conversions to instant Amazon MCF fulfillment Best of all you use the code TT10 to get 10% off Diamond for 6 months even if you've used a coupon before So go ahead and upgrade and let Helium 10 do all the heavy lifting for you so you can focus on what really matters For more info on our new Tik Tok shop offerings visit h10.me/ me/tiktock I'll see you there You know it's one of the hottest things that's out there right now Everybody is talking about Tik Tok and Tik Tok shop and how there's people are making just crazy money And I just met someone uh at the time of this recording just last week that's doing $21 million a year on Tik Tok shop and they they they're doing zero on Amazon Zero zero sales They don't even exist on Amazon but they're doing 21 million on Tik Tok shop And so I know a lot of you have been hearing about this A lot of you are worried about what's going on in the Tik Tok shop world Is Tik Tok going to even exist Uh what how do you figure out what's selling How do you figure out who to deal with on influencers And we have Early Days of TikTok Shop one of the guys from Yuka on today So Nasanka Uh how you doing Sohoon Doing good Yeah Excited to be on here and and talk more about Tik Tok shop So this Tik Tok shop just let's get a little background I I don't know how how long have you been working with Tik Tok I I actually been working on it almost since it started Worked on the agency side managing brands on Tik Tok shop before I came to Yuka in about 2023 Um so really early days uh since the platform started to kick off in the US So it started like back in like about 10 years ago as a like a karaoke platform right called musically or something like that And so I remember hearing uh Gary Vee talk about I don't know 20 maybe it's 2015 2016 2017ish somewhere around in there talking about something called musically he's like this is going to be the next hot thing All the kids are on there and then I I went and looked at I was like okay yeah I can see if you're a teenager you might want to be on that I didn't pay attention to it And then in 20 I think it was 2018 or 2019 I was in Miami at one of Grant Cardone's like uh I don't know one of his silly little 10X conferences or whatever and I went to a a party and a friend of mine was like uh introduced me to some guys like hey have you have you checked out Tik Tok I'm like what's Tik Tok And I didn't know it was the re the rebranding of musically but I I was like no I I haven't So I I I looked at it I was like oh this is pretty cool And ever since then Tik Tok Tik Tok has been like my when I can't fall asleep or when I'm bored it's actually what I I watch Uh I don't use it as a search engine I don't use it in a way a lot of the younger generation does but uh you know it it's kept me entertained uh numer numerous times So but since then it's blown up I mean so you've seen the rise of of of Tik Tok If you were on the agency side now now you're on the inside Yeah Yeah Now I'm on the the tech side Tik Tok shop partner We talk to the guys at at Tik Tok a lot and you know my my generation calls it doom scrolling So you know just being on Tik Tok endlessly and the algorithm sucks you in Uh it's just it's just really powerful because you're getting people who just you know are spending time on social media like a good time of their day just on social media and now you just have a really easy way to market to them and talk to them Right So what is it about that algorithm I mean that's the big controversy right now I mean the it's so good that the US government a year ago banned it basically and then Trump is it's so Trump is like was on board originally to ban it and it it helped him get reelected because it was so good at helping get into his audience So now he's like I don't know you know we just had uh last week uh June 19th was one of the deadlines and it got extended again Um and so he's given it time to work this out But that algorithm a lot of people say well if Tik Tok sells to Amazon or to Oracle or to whoever may end up buying it at some point the the Chinese are like "The algorithm doesn't go with it That algorithm is our secret sauce It's our and it's not going with it." What is it about that algorithm like you just said that endless doomsday scroll that just makes it so addictive and compelling versus reals or Instagram or YouTube shorts or Facebook Um why is it so powerful What what what what is it that it does that the others just can't seem to put their finger on Yeah So it's slightly different than like an Instagram right If you look at you know for example Power Digital's marketing report right state of 2025 organic um it actually shows that over 70% of users on Tik Tok spend their time on the discover page And so we're really seeing a lot of uh users and and people use it as a discovery engine or search engine right Just because the platform is able to personalize such niche recommendations to everyone who's scrolling on it right rather than on other social media platforms like Instagram where people are actually spending most of their time on their home feed following creators and communities and trends uh specifically right not necessarily on the explore page to the highest degree as Tik Tok Um so the fact that people are always discovering uh if you insert any sort of like sponsored content or make that video very frictionless or easy to purchase on is very powerful from a demand generation perspective And that's why people are really looking at Tik Tok shop is the number one social commerce platform right now I mean Tik Tok shop has been booming I mean and and a lot of Amazon sellers are like you need to be on Tik Tok But if you look at in Tik Tok talk shot Tik Tok has been been been growing that 170 plus million people in the US um you know I think it's it's actually a lot the US is not as big as a market China is its number one market it's different name over there Dian but um and Indonesia is its biggest non-Chinese market bigger than the US uh a lot of people don't don't realize how big it is in Indonesia but the it it's growing but it's still small when it when you put in perspective to Amazon Amazon did GMBB of about 700 some odd million in in 2024 Tik Tok did it depends on what numbers you believe Uh somewhere around 15 to 20 million Uh and I'm sorry billion Uh I said million I meant billion 15 to 20 billion That's a weekend for Amazon Uh you know that's not that much But in perspective when I you hear someone like this people I just said selling pants for uh you know for women doing $21 million a year out their warehouse in Houston uh selling selling pants um reselling pants basically They're not it's not even their own brand That's just you know it wakes up people gets people's attention So the power of Tik Tok is crazy Yeah It's it's insane And when you think about the organic lift that comes after right Like if you think about the customer acquisition cost as opposed to like using a ton of Amazon PPC spend to acquire the customer first right This whole like you know pay later after the sale is done makes it a lot more cash flow efficient on the business And it's it's really a it's really a growth channel you can layer into like your omni channel business right Like Tik Tok you know Amazon loves Tik Tok because of like the off-platform traffic that it's driving right The brand referral bonus that ranking boost right So it's not just like Tik Tok shop as a closedended channel versus Amazon but Tik Tok shop as a lever in terms of your omni channel engine you know to drive more growth to your DTOC in Amazon And it is still like you know one year into its development right Comparing it to Amazon who's had almost a decade you know to really develop as a marketplace isn't always fair But if you look at the compound aggregate growth rate and how it's pacing I think um you know based on the research I've been doing it should be pacing towards a 80 million uh total addressable market uh in the US right now So it is still growing fast but you know definitely uh not the same purchase volume as Amazon right now You said 80 million 80 million addressable market Yeah So right now there's done like or I guess like 80 billion in total transaction 80 billion not million 80 billion sorry 80 billion I'm in the same yeah 80 billion yes cuz like right now it's already sitting at around 15 20 billion but it's pacing towards uh 80 billion and with the rise of you know the shop mise the shopify collabs and the flip apps and social commerce just starting to develop as a whole I can see that number getting a lot higher as customers get more accustomed to purchasing you know on these more deal focused uh marketplaces off of Amazon as well well Amazon's primarily a buying engine it's a marketplace you go there you kind of know what you want to buy Most people I mean there there are some that go in there and randomly you know window shop and look for stuff Um but for the most part people are going there with an intention I need to solve a problem I need this particular item I'm going to buy it on on versus Tik Tok you're going there to be entertained and oh by the way here's something that's pretty cool Here's this cool gadget or cool pair of jeans or this cool whatever that that you didn't know about Tik Tok knows how to target that based on everything else you've looked at I always say that if you want to know somebody if you're dating if you're going on a date um first thing you know you're match.com and you're meeting for coffee the first time one of the first things I'd say if if this looks like it's going to be serious like can I borrow your phone for a second I want to look at your Tik Tok scroll Um and if you look at their Tik Tok scroll you're going to know everything about that person whether they're into girls with big boobs walking down the street or if they're into puppies or if they're into cats or if they're into uh astrophysics or into uh you know controversial stuff you're going to know because that feed feeds it And then it knows what those type of people want to see from a product point of view and the influence point of view and it's a powerful thing Amazon tried to copy that with Aspire Inspire and some of their stuff and they just can't they just can't make it work Uh and and Tik Tok has got that dialed in I agree with you Social commerce is I The Power of Social Commerce think it's the one-two punch You need the place where people are comfortable with their credit card and comfortable to buy They know that they can return it easily They know all that That's Amazon or it could be Walmart or Shopify but it's primarily Amazon But they also need the place where like it's the infomercial of today You know remember I you're too young but 20 years ago you turn on TV at two I remember watching E entertainment television and after about midnight uh it would turn into mostly infomercials and on weekends during the day it's infomercials for different kitchen gadgets or different videos or I remember Girls Gone Wild was a huge video thing that was all sold on by infomercial VHS tapes that were sent of girls partying and getting crazy uh that did millions and millions of dollars That's the old that's really doesn't it still exists but it's kind of moved now to social uh so but mining that a lot of people don't know how to mine that they don't know how to actually do that there is a science to it um it's not just post once and hope and and pray it's the good people are posting two three four five times a day doing testing doing all kinds of stuff what are you seeing that the the people that are having the most success driving traffic on Tik Tok and growing their brands are doing Yeah So I I think with social social media right you've got to think about the the people who are on there Like of course 49% is about Gen Z and of course Gen Alpha is going to be coming up in there but there's actually a lot of people who are just on there doom scrolling who are slightly older right So the biggest thing is to make it make the content the biggest thing is to make the content look native right I think on on Amazon since you're capturing demand there's a lot of like infographics and like very specific bullets to like drive the purchase from consideration But on Tik Tok shop you want to focus more on the awareness stage and make the content have really nice hooks or like layer in trending audios and trending sounds and create a characterist uh a bunch of characteristics that are really mirroring what already is kind of going viral Right A lot of what works on Tik Tok is that lifestyle content that's relatable and authentic where someone's going through an influencer or affiliates day in the life or they'll do like a get ready with me right Where the influencer is really just talking through their daily routine They might be applying on a certain product and have it linked in the bottom of the video so that people can kind of check it out but you know the content's not really being forcefed to them It's being showcased in a very creative way and filmed in a way that's native to the platform Yeah Yeah It's it's it's interesting how the psychology works that people tend to trust a complete stranger that's kind of like them or that they can relate to over a big brand that's wellknown Uh and that's the magic of of it is a complete stranger can influence you more than some brand that's taking out Super Bowl ads Uh and that's the power of of it What are the rules when it comes to actually you can on Tik Tok shop you can actually go and TikTok Shop Advertising Strategy Insights you can buy it Usually there's a link or you can go into Tik Tok shop and search but if someone's got an ad or organic thing coming across and they're pitching uh you know some makeup thing like you said they can drive it to Tik Tok shop but what are the rules of actually driving it to your Shopify store to Amazon You can you link it Do you have to gently say oh check out check out Amazon or is the the AI going to pick that up and block that video if it's not an ad What are the rules in actually driving traffic besides Tik Tok shop What are what are the rules Yeah so I definitely wouldn't uh you know put any sort of uh language around Amazon in your Tik Tok content I think that can get like fra flagged pretty quickly uh especially if it's shoppable content Um your Tik Tok shop links your Shopify store or you can fulfill that inventory via Amazon FBA right Um so you know from there it's really just about how can I make it convert within Tik Tok shop Like that's that's really the advantage of Tik Tok shop as opposed to Amazon because like if I were to choose as a consumer where I want to make the purchase I would choose Amazon a lot just because I know it's super trusted I'm going to get my product very very quickly and the return policy is good like you said right But with Tik Tok shop because I can just purchase within the video without having to leave to Shopify or go to another destination in Amazon that's really the value ad So you just click on a link it's actually embedded in the video at the bottom and then you make the purchase straight from there Yeah it's pretty I I've bought quite a few things off of Tik Tok and it's pretty pretty well integrated and it's it you click a couple times and if you got your stuff saved just like you do on Amazon it's like it's done I mean and like one two clicks and then then you're right back into your doom scroll You don't got to navigate around and like where was I or what was I looking at It'll take you right back in which is it's it's brilliant And the discovery mechanism on there is just it's it's crazy So what's the difference between when someone runs organic and I I go out and I I my buddy uh just you know my my wife I don't know my wife goes on and she shows herself she's just uh posting here's me doing my my makeup and then versus someone taking that and creating an ad around that What's the what's the difference in the reach or the strategy on that Yeah So I mean with any sort of like off-platform affiliate marketing I think like a really big pain point is attribution I mean I think from anyone who's ran any Amazon affiliate marketing campaigns with those Amazon attribution links like the attribution is a little bit poor Um so with Tik Tok shop because you're solving and keeping it all within one platform and it's in the video like you know exactly where the customer is purchasing and the purchase is happening within the platform the attribution and measurement is just like a lot better right And Tik Tok ads traditionally aren't super great at conversion you know compared to like the row ads you'd get on a meta But the CPM is a lot better because Tik Tok is more of a discovery brand awareness platform right So if you look at industry average CPMs on Tik Tok versus industry average CPMs on Meta uh it's often like several times lower So if I'm running like a Tik Tok you know it's a DTOC strategy and my goal is brand awareness uh maybe that would make sense Alternatively on Tik Tok shop you can use what are called spark ads um and take an existing content with that shoppable video link embedded in it and just set it towards a brand awareness goal And the benefit there is that the purchase link is still happening you know within that video right You don't need to go through multiple touch points off somewhere else and you still have that um that brand awareness goal so you can hit a slightly lower CPM Now there's two types of ads on TikTok right There's Spark Ads and what's it What's the other ad Max GMV Max GMV Max and there's live shopping ads too What's the difference between those Yeah So uh GMV Max is essentially like a think of it like an advantage plus like for meta but like on steroids right It's like a very automated ad type that does very rapid creative testing on every single video with a shoppable link on there out there right So whether it's organic whether it's an influencer ad anything out there with a Tik Tok shop video link is put into that ads engine and just tested And so with GMV Max you want to have a large amount of creative running through that engine because you want to make sure that that that ad type has a lot of creative to test With video shopping ads you're back to precision You're back to testing different hooks and angles And you know if you want a bit more control and precision you know that's when I'd use a video shopping ad So and the Spark ads are the are the precision ones taking a user's content getting their permission to actually can I can I run this as an ad and you're going to make a little bit extra commission but I'm going to put the ad dollars behind it because it worked organically basically and you're you're picking the ones versus GMV Max is it's the algorithm is you're spinning up here's 10 different ways to sell this product It's going to figure out which one of those works best and double down on that Yeah exactly It'll it'll take everything figure out what works you know spark ads right You just choose the one that you want Exactly And the way that works is creators actually give you a string of characters uh called a spark code and then you input that into the ads manager and that allows you permissions to amplify that existing creative So it's on a creative by creative basis versus all the creative out there in the ecosystem And the benefit is like you said a lot Boosting Amazon Sales Through TikTok of people can buy on Shopify I'm sorry on on Tik Tok shop which might tie into your Shopify on the back side or be fulfilled by Amazon Um but also a lot of people they they will see the ad even though it's there on Tik Tok or they'll see the the post they they trust Amazon So it's there's something called the halo effect where you people will start to go to Amazon and type in the brand name or the product name or something and and just buy it there And so a lot of times I've what kind of stories have you heard of like Amazon sellers what kind of lift have they gotten on Amazon just because they were running TikTok Like 20 30 50 100% lift on sales Yeah So I don't I don't have like conclusive numbers right now transparently like uh you know our our Effective Influencer Acquisition Strategies tech is working with a few other Amazon partners and you know trying to get that data to prove a conclusive correlation I I know with like a lot of the Amazon sellers uh the data and the numbers really matter So I'm not going to speak to anything from a conversion lift Um but I will say when I was managing brands uh at an agency that I worked at previous to here when we were managing them on Tik Tok shop and on Amazon when we got a video that really kicked off on Tik Tok shop we saw a 10x spike in branded search on Amazon right So it's really just emphasizing that if people see that product on Tik Tok shop they'll go and learn more on Amazon Um and so of course like you know that'll have maybe like a 15% or 20% lift in conversion but that's largely dependent on like what sort of levers they're pulling on Amazon you know because at that time we were launching the brand on Amazon and Tik Tok Shop at the same time So there may have been a slightly higher lift because there weren't as many levers being pulled at that moment I mean one of the things I like about Tik Tok Shop is in the the data transparency So if I'm if I'm trying to get an influencer on Instagram or on YouTube I've got to go and I've got to do my research look at how many followers I got what's their engagement rate There's tools that will will show you this kind of stuff but I have no idea if these people can sell or not Uh they they may tell me "Here's a client I did x amount and they're they're asking for their fee or whatever up front because of something but on Tik Tok it it shows me right there It says this is what this creator has sold through Tik Tok shop." Uh and I can tell exactly who knows how to sell in their videos and who doesn't Um and then so what's should I be looking for when I'm going in there and doing my research Um should and like your tool and some of the other tools should I be looking for people that have like crushed it or those the more competitive people Those are the Kim Kardashians and and that type and I should actually be looking for upandcomers or what's a strategy that I should be looking for when I'm trying to find people uh creators to partner with when it comes to Tik Tok Yeah So I think now that people can see sales there's also the negative side of it where everyone's reaching after the same pool of creators right They're reaching out to the 10K plus in the last 30 days Um but on the flip side why would those creators want to work with the newer shop Because you know while their creator sales are visible your shop sales are also visible So those creators are less likely to respond to those newer cold starting shops right uh what I would do if I were a newer shop you know or or if I'm like getting my Amazon brand on Tik Tok shop is work with more of those upandcomers right I would focus on creator relevance at a significant amount of scale And I'm going to call back to something I said earlier Uh Tik Tok is a discovery platform a discovery engine right So follower count you know sales that's a good um proxy you know for someone who's likely to sell but it's not conclusive because 80% of people are spending their time on the discover page So you want to look at people who are creating relevant content and are up and coming for your brand right or for your category and then get them to post as many times as possible and turn them into ambassadors And I would rather have a thousand of those guys than maybe 10 of the Kim Kardashians you know who who who have generated like you know millions in GMV or or you know things like that What are the keys to getting an influencer to respond to me Is it the personalization Is it that I'm offering a bigger commission than someone else I had a guy speak at my billion-dollar seller summit He actually won best speaker and he he has a process because he's like so many people just want free stuff on TikTok and I'm sending out you a thousand messages and you know 50 of them or 100 of them reply back and I end up sending them a free sample of my product and one or two of them actually do something So he's got a process where he puts them through a 30 p 30 questionnaire before he will send them anything and and most people won't do that He said the vast you know that actually a lot of people are like the heck with you I'll go on to the next guy But the people that do it he knows they're serious and he knows that they're going to end up doing something And he's done very very well with this process of of of weaning them out and actually seeing who is actually really going to do something So what are you seeing actually works Cuz a lot of people are always afraid to give away too much I'm of the opinion like if I'm using influencers I would stack them I would I got a new product I'm launching I would be like "Hey I'm launching this new protein uh vegan protein powder." um on uh July 15th Uh from July 8th to the 15th I want to do this promotion I want you to be posting every day from July 8th to the 15th Uh and and and I and I would be like "Okay I'm going to give you a 100% commission on everything you sell And whoever sells the most I'm going to give you a free cruise or I'm going to give you a iPad or I'm going to give you something like some of these big I'm have some sort of contest and I'll give away the whole farm just to get the cycle going because I know there's going to be a halo effect on Amazon I know that's going to go viral It's going to get shared And then I would take a I would take an a targeted audience And if I had 10 influencers doing this I would take them and run spark ads or uh the the max stuff behind it Uh just so to a select group of people like I targeted 10 20 50,000 people so that in their feed they're constantly seeing this like oh my god this is going crazy Everybody's talking about this and I would create some sort of campaign Are people going to that level uh I know are just the sophisticated brands and the Amazon average Amazon seller is just not doing much Yeah So funny funny enough you hit on you hit on a point that's uh you know we just launched in our road map and and sort of where I see the acquisition of Creator Acquisition Lever Through Contests creators heading to So I think everyone is doing this you know x amount of commission and free product and I've seen people lever up that commission to like 50 60% but creators just aren't interested So what I think would work very well uh is actually reaching out to creators and inviting them to a contest And within that contest you just simply explain to the creator if you post three times we're going to pay you cash And that's your creator acquisition lever And what's interesting about that is on one hand you have creators that aren't even guaranteed to post at all you know because they just have so much going on But then on the other hand you pay $20 maybe right and you get that creator to post three times you're three times as more likely to have a a video a piece of content that could be boosted by ads You're more likely to have an engaged creator It's an ambassador that you can involve in your newsletter and community program And that message is super differentiated from all the other general messages So that's what I see working best That's where I think sellers are going to be headed Uh the reason why people haven't been doing that is because it takes a lot of manual work to track and automate payouts of contests at different tiers And with Tik Tok shop the scale can eat you alive if you add that on top of your scope So like what we've done is we've automated the tracking analytics payout collection of usage rights uh spark code collection as well Um and then you can invite creators into a recurring contest or incentive program and guarantee that certain posts per creator uh that that's where the future of outreach is really heading So that would help too if I'm a brand new sell brand new uh product that I'm launching I have no track history So when they look at my GMV on TikTok they're like "This guy's never I don't know if I want to sell that I don't know if it'll sell." But if I give them a flat fee and say "Look you post three times I'll give you $25 a post." At least they know they're getting 75 bucks And then if it actually sells then they're like "Oh holy cow We I sold 22 of those Also got a affiliate commission off of that All right I'll do this." this and that kind of starts that whole flywheel of then other creators will pay attention and you can get the get the ball rolling So you're saying that's a that's a good strategy to do How many creators are really charging right now Are are a lot of creators through your program saying "Okay I want a flat fee." Cuz I remember 5 years 10 years 5 years seven years ago there's a company called Famebit and a couple others before Tik Tok really took off And you would go to people and you would pay them 200 bucks 500 bucks 1,000 bucks 10,000 bucks to actually post once or twice or three times And there wasn't really an affiliate commission for some a lot of them There w um but have those days gone away and it's mostly affiliate based now or is it a combination of affiliate and flat fee in a lot of cases Well you've got to understand that everyone just Influencer Retainer Strategies & Success like Tik Tok just mashed Tik Tok shop on top of a bunch of influencers who were charging retainers per post right Everyone was doing flat feed per post on Tik Tok besides like some of the influencers who you know use like Commission Junction or like other other things or like to do affiliate Um so what's happening is we are going to we are seeing a lot of retainerbased models coming in but the the rate is brought down a lot because like if I move an influencer to retainer on Tik Tok shop now that I can see their sales now that I understand they're going to earn more through commission than the retainer anyways I get to look at firstparty sales data on my shop to validate how much I'm going to pay them So now people are doing like volume based retainers where they're doing like a couple hundred bucks maybe a thousand bucks if they're very good for like 15 posts or 30 posts per month because they know volume is the game So are you seeing people actually have tiers on their commissions Like to motivate some of the creators like okay if you hit $1,000 in sales uh $1,000 and less I'll give you 20% commission but if you hit uh $1,000 to $2,500 in sales I'll give you 25% commission And then tear it up Are you seeing anybody doing any of that kind of stuff to extra motivate them to actually really push you Yeah the best the best uh the best way to be successful on Tik Tok shop is gamification and building community So one thing that we harp on a lot is the goal gradient effect which sort of preaches that as people get closer to their goal they work harder So if you use tiers as a basis to ladder people up through cash rewards and commission increases they eventually turn into this brand ambassador and you kind of string them along the way with performance contingent rewards And I find that to work a lot better in the long run for your brand as opposed to offering a high commission out the gate right Because let's say you offer a high Influencer Ambassador Program Success Strategies commission out the gate what happens is once you take that commission away you see the sales performance dip even more below a baseline than if you had offered a basic commission And then you can never build a sustainable you know profitable growth engine on Tik Tok shop I know someone like uh Snow the Snow whitening uh guys you know the teeth whitening stuff They did like hund00 million on Tik Tok I think Um or maybe it's a combination of Tik Tok and Amazon but Tik Tok drove the vast majority of it He said that their strategy they was to actually get 50 to 75 brand ambassadors And so they narrowed it down They went through thousands or hundreds or thousands of creators and then they would basically the weaker ones where they would kind of fade them off and they they created this core group of ambassadors and that's who they launch everything to and they got kind of them in their ecosystem so they can reach out to them directly uh and they saying that's what's driven a lot of their success and then they compete amongst each other and then they they'll fly them out for a weekend party in Miami or something and and do all kinds of stuff to really cater to them Are you seeing people do that kind of level of stuff as well I think I think with those programs like everyone's trying to move their creators onto a Discord onto a WhatsApp create that community Um I think everyone wants to be at that Snow White goal I I would just like argue that like what's the qualified candidate to enter that ambassador program If Snow Whiteing is in like narrowing it down uh from influencers who are generating thousands already and those don't make the cut and they're having a super elite group who's going to maintain that group How is the price structure going to be oriented to you know be incentivizing them Like those are the things like that where you'd have to think about before you implement anything super exclusive because remember everyone is going after the top creators on Tik Tok shop You don't really have much bargaining power if you're a newer shop So you've either got to make your own or you've got to have a really attractive offer to even create this core group that's sticky Uh in the first place a lot of 13year-olds you know when I was young you'd ask a 13-year-old what they want to do when they grow up They say "I want to be an astronaut or a doctor or a lawyer." Now you ask a 13-year-old they like "I want to be a creator." Uh but you look at some of the statistics out there and you hear all these these uh really cool success stories and gets everybody eyes uh wide and like excited but it's almost like the NFL You know you got the high school kids that all think they're going to be playing in the NFL one day and be a Super Bowl winning quarterback but really once you go through the through college through high school and to college and then to the pros and then make it up very few actually make it to the elite level And it's the same thing with creators Isn't the average creator make like five grand a year or something like that I saw some statistic It was it was definitely in the in the four figures or below five figures Do you know anything on what the average creator makes uh per year So a lot of these are just they're not that successful actually Oh most aren't And like this is perfect timing So I I work personally with a few of our eight figure plus brands on Tik Tok shop and I do affiliate program audits of like the health of their entire program and I tear out the GMV level and show them the percentages and like usually these guys have like 100,000 affiliates They're doing tens of million dollars a year on Tik Tok shop And I find that 0.5% of their influencers and this is to date of their entire program do over $10,000 in GMBB And then it's usually like another like 7% do over $1,000 to 10,000 right And then it goes up to like 3% do like $100 to a,000 And then the ones that do over $1 in sales lifetime is like maybe 8% So when you take cumulative you know of all the influencers on Tik Tok shop for these mega brands right where everyone can already see that they're selling like crazy it's like less than 10% of influencers to date only make a dollar or more in sales right And so like where does that leave you with most of the affiliates on Tik Tok shop in general like 90% of their affiliates aren't making any sales right And I think it's it's when you look at the data like that it's it's very interesting Um because everyone's querying straight to these 10K plus but they're the 0.5% of creators for these multi-million dollar Tik Tok shop brands So that's sort of like a it's not a very realistic dream outcome to get back to your question So what is it just a numbers game You just start with some of these guys that are they're at the $1 level and you just hope that one of them breaks through and they they ride the wave with you ride the wave with them and they ride it with you or what what there's a lot of people that say "Hey a soccer mom uh who is very active in her three kids soccer league and she goes to all the games and they run little weekend parties with all the other uh parents and stuff." She may have more influence uh in her little world of influencing 50 people uh that come to the parties than some big influencer on on you know that's the Kim Kardashian or whatever Should you be trying to strive for more of trying to find these little golden nuggets that that actually everybody in her circle listens to her uh and and grow you know I I just heard someone speak that does knitting They they sell knitting supplies for like yarn and stuff like that And they one of their advantages is they really niche down into these women who have you hold like little meetups at their house with 20 other women or 15 other women and eat some snacks and knit stuff Uh but that one person that's leading that can influence all 15 of those people into buying something and they're going after that kind of thing Should that be a strategy or should it what what should your what should your strategy be if you're new I'm like "Okay Strategic Approach to TikTok Marketing I I everybody keeps talking about Tik Tok It's awesome Oh my god I got to do this What do I do Yeah So the first thing you need to do is like understand the content style that's working on the platform right Because like if most people are on the discover page it's not necessarily about the influencer and how engaged their audience is It's about if your content was served through Tik Tok's algorithm is it likely to induce a purchase from a stranger Um so the first thing I would do is do a competitive analysis Get on Yuka pull all the top hooks selling points and content styles for similar products that are trending in real time I'd go and do research on hashtag basis uh as well as the content style basis to figure out ways to creatively showcase my product and create my first creative brief If I have a baseline as a brand and I understand my customers pain points I have a list of non-branded search terms I pulled from Helium 10 uh you know for my Amazon brand right I'd plug those in and figure out how does my product translate into niches on Tik Tok and then what's a creative format that can help solve a problem for those people in that niche And then I would go reach out to those creators enable follow-up messages start a contest gamify that program in the earlier days as a better acquisition lever And then I would automate as much of the process as possible I would automate reminding creators to post I would automate uh engagement after the sample has been requested I'd automate the tiering invitation collection of spark codes and usage rights so that as it grows it's easy to scale What about AI in the in the video Should I be using real people or there's there's some tools and I think Tik Tok even allows you to do is they'll create some AI based stuff for you now Are you what are you seeing Is the AI stuff comparable to the human based stuff or is it is lagging behind or crushing the human based What are you what are you seeing there Yeah so that's that's also something we're working on and testing I would say in terms of like a zero to one video generation for long form content I would still stick with real people because after a certain amount of time you can kind of you can kind of feel that there's something off and that this isn't a person However if you're running a you know a meta ad right uh and you want to use a hook where it's like eight seconds of an AI generated person with the technology out there you just can't tell that it's AI and it's a very cost-effective way to get creative and get started without sending hundreds of pieces of product out How strict is Tik Tok on claims and stuff You know on TikTok Shop Rules and Strategies Amazon you can't say this helps you lose weight or you can't isolate certain uh nationalities or you can't you know this is this is for brownkinned people you can't really say that or this is for uh you know overweight people that need to lose weight or this is for depression What are the how tight is Tik Tok on rules and claims and regulations and stuff like that You got to really have it buttoned up Yeah they're they're pretty tight Um especially if you want to spark it and run ads on it Of course that's that's even more tight Like you can't make dramatic claims saying if you use this cream you know everything's going to be 100% better tomorrow right Like that that wouldn't work Um there is a bit of distance right Since you're working through creators rather than promoting through the brand handle there's a bit more flexibility right Because Tik Tok doesn't allow you to review and stop the creator's content they'll just make that creator video not shoppable or like that creator video can't earn dollars on it right Um so that there is there is some distance It's a little little bit less strict there right But if you went from the brand handle and made those claims you would get violations on your account and you could actually be sometimes outright banned very very quickly Uh I think on Amazon like sometimes they'll give you a warning but sometimes on TikTok you know if you just cross the line that one time and try to go straight into some more like gray hat stuff like boom you're out So just just be careful for sure What do you see working You you look at a lot of brands You said you're helping a lot of these seven eight figure brands U what are you seeing that's like a trend on right now What's the hot like one or two three things that this kind of hook or this kind of video style is just really taking off Uh and maybe people should take a look at look at that I mean that's that that's very like brand dependent and industry dependent I would say the the hot tactic right now is maximizing post rate per affiliate right Getting the affiliate to post more than one time And what I'm super gung-ho about and you know I work with these brands closely on is running a contest Running a contest where it's very easy to hit that first reward but you get the affiliate to post at least three to five times And if you can increase your post rate per affiliate you know and then you can also increase your GMV per affiliate by layering in different hooks and selling points that we're sourcing via AI and push those through levers through gamification That's what's going to increase sales in the long run I think with these bigger brands right now they've gotten to such a high place by sampling so high but they have tens of thousands of creators who aren't really moving the needle I think the biggest thing is going to be re-engaging them through gamification to post three to five times And then you're going to see a huge halo right Because you're three to 5xing your entire brand awareness and you're not paying until it happens So why are some of these people just like you said 97% are not making it or making a dollar or or no 92% you said 8% Uh 92% only make a buck or or less as affiliate Is that because they have no reach Is that because the algorithm they posted one video and the algorithm just didn't give it any love and they like "Ah this doesn't work Uh I'm going to move on to something else." Um why why is that What what's or or do they just create bad videos and they're not good at sales or psychology What what makes a good creator uh you know be able to actually sell your product Is is it they they come from a sales background is they come from a psych psychology background What is it that makes them a good creator Yeah So I think fundamentally with Tik Tok shop uh and social selling what's great about it is you're able to get everyday people to promote your content so it's more authentic But on the con side they're not professional creators They don't they might not know Impact of Brand Affiliate Programs how to edit video super well They don't have a decade of content creation experience doing pay-per- post jobs for big brands right So their content creation skills as a whole are a bit lower And then I see uh with these brands affiliate programs like if you look at Bloom's affiliate program right it's actually not as consolidated to the top percentage of creators There's a more even spread And what I hypothesize with that more even spread is the brand is doing a better job to educate the affiliates right So if you think about affiliates who don't have a blueprint to create content from versus affiliates who have the you know Bloom starter package where they're able to see exactly what video blueprints have generated thousands of dollars last week and all they need to do is just copy that I think that's going to help uh creators do a bit better right Having some sort of starting point or basis as opposed to just leaving it in the dark um because these creators are newer So you're saying you should actually try to dictate what the creator does If I'm brand new and I'm I'm I just got uh 10 guys that said "Okay I'll promote your product Send me a sample." Do I send them just a sample and say "All right good luck." Uh or do I send them a copy of my Amazon listing or here's the 10 bullet points that I want you to focus on Here's a script Um or what do I do I would recommend sending something like this to creators because if you think about the creative process it's very ambiguous Like even if I said "Hey create a testimonial type content for me." That could mean a thousand different video variations And that's analysis paralysis for the creator Makes them not get started and they might not even post So you do need to give them some sort of launching point I would word it as inspiration rather than a requirement Like give them some ideas off of what's worked well and then let them you know render or take that idea and and do it in their own way Do you see some sellers that want to approve everything they want to they want to micromanage everything uh on on their brand or do you do you see a lot of just let them do their thing get the hell out of their way or you see a lot of brands are super worried about oh they're going to misrepresent us or they're going to bash us or what if they don't like my sample and they do a negative video on this what what are you seeing on that side yeah I would say the sellers who are sorry I was I would say the sellers who are super um micromanagy brand conscious those don't do well on Tik Tok shop because Tik Tok doesn't have a way embedded in the platform form to review and reject content before it's actually diffused right And if someone sends like a really big long list of requirements saying you can't say this word you know this isn't FDA compliant that's stifling the the creator sensitivity and that doesn't tend to work well But you still should be talking to the creator People still want to feel like recognized People still want to feel like there's a good relationship with the brand there So you should be talking to them I think a mistake a lot of people make is they assume that the video that's made for YouTube I can just lift that up and put that on Tik Tok and I can put that on on reels and I can put that on Meta and that's usually not the case What what kind of tweaks or what kind besides to mention stuff the basics What what kind of things do you see that are different between the platforms versus dealing with creators that are focused on different platforms I think just to simplify it let's go like people who try to uh take Instagram into Tik Tok I think like since the aspect ratios and you know the formats between reals and videos are very similar uh there's an easy uh pitfall to fall into So on on Instagram I I see the content being very millennial coded very aesthetic right You're like especially like think about if you're following a Pilates brand on Meta right The entire profile page is very like use certain colors have like very nice branding make it look very pretty and aesthetic right And when you try to take that content onto Tik Tok the user is looking for something very relatable very authentic uh very raw and natural And like that curated aesthetic completely falls short So when I see people try to repost all their Instagram content onto Tik Tok it it usually doesn't work unless they're already socially driven Um on the flip side if you take any of your Tik Tok creative and you cut it up and try to use it onto meta ads or things like that uh that really works well We saw a lot of our sellers actually trying to incubate and test uh Tik Tok videos to then use on meta as their creative Uh that's a really common strategy uh for a lot of the people we work with because Tik Tok creators are so much more creative and innovative and they're not trying to follow this brand aesthetic or or or curate that millennial coded content So what's going to happen with Tik Tok Where's it going Is it going to stick around Who's going to buy it What's going to happen What's the what's the inside feeling at at Yukas If it goes away yuka goes away or that's maybe that's why going in that's why you're going to Instagram like okay let's let's hedge our bets here but what what's your gut feeling on what's going to happen Yeah I mean we're we're definitely close with a lot of people at Tik Tok Um and I'm a firm believer that anything in America that makes a lot of money is going to find a way to stay Uh and with Tik Tok pacing towards an 80 billion you know total addressable market uh I don't think anyone's going to just take that money off the table wipe all these small businesses uh you know way of life I I don't think it's going to go away Um you know of course like with like consumer sentiment like people are a bit more apprehensive because like the government just keeps kicking this decision three months down the road right So we we are expanding to Instagram Um and that's that's one of our goals anyways It's not because of fear that Tik Tok's going to go away So I I firmly think it's going to be here to stay Um I think people may be nervous about but there's too much money for it to to really go away So how do they find you on LinkedIn So Sanka you just there's there isn't that many Sohuns either So honestly even off my first name here uh you'd probably be able to find me but that's su na Awesome Well hey I really appreciate you coming on today so and speaking uh telling us about Tik Tok Yuka and stuff Uh this exciting times with social commerce I think it's going to be the what no matter what happens with Tik Tok it's the hot thing right now Uh and it's uh I think for discovery it's the new number one way for new product discovery out there Yeah And thanks so much for having me on It was great great questions and really appreciate you making the time You see from this discussion social commerce is becoming a much bigger component of your total mix of what you got to do to actually sell when it comes to e-commerce whether that's on Amazon Shopify Tik Tok shop Walmart social commerce especially Tik Tok is a major opportunity Now hopefully you got some good insights and some ideas from this episode That's our goal here at the amm podcast And you know if if you want more of this kind of stuff make sure you subscribe to my newsletter It's billiondollers.com billiondollarellers.com It's totally free every Monday and Thursday Brand new actionable tactical stuff the latest tools resources news what's happening in the Amazon and e-commerce especially the AI world that's affecting a lot of what we're doing We'll see you again next week with another episode of the AM PM podcast Take care everybody [Music]