#437 – AI, KDP, & Amazon FBA: Shivali Patel on Winning in E-Commerce

#437 - AI, KDP, & Amazon FBA: Shivali Patel on Winning in E-Commerce Kevin King: Welcome to episode 437 of the AM-PM Podcast. This week I've got a very special guest. It's the amazing, the beautiful, the stunning, the really cool, the smart Shivali Patel. Shivali Patel: That's right. Kevin King: You might know Shivali from Helium 10. She's one of the brand evangelists for Helium 10. She's a seller herself. She espouses the gospel of Helium 10, and she's got some really cool insights on a lot of cool stuff. So this week's episode, we're diving deep with Shivali Patel. And in case you didn't know, the voice that you hear on this podcast at the beginning, the little bump, it's called a bumper, the little sound, that's actually Shivali. So no further ado, here's Shivali. Unknown Speaker: Welcome to the AM-PM Podcast. Welcome to the AM-PM Podcast, where we explore opportunities in e-commerce. Shivali Patel: We dream big and we discover what's working right now. Unknown Speaker: Plus, this is the podcast where money never sleeps. Working around the clock in the AM and the PM. Are you ready for today's episode? I said, are you ready? Shivali Patel: Let's do this. Unknown Speaker: Here's your host, Kevin King. Kevin King: Miss Shivali Patel, how are you? So glad to finally have you here on the AM-PM Podcast. It's about damn time. Shivali Patel: It is. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me, Kevin. How are you? Kevin King: I'm good. I'm good. I think the roles are reversed. I think the first time I met you, you interviewed me. Yes. I think it was Freedom Ticket, like Freedom Ticket 2.0. 2 or 3. Yeah, 2.0. 2.0. Yeah, because we have 3.0 running right now. So 2.0. So that was like 2009. Shivali Patel: No, it can't be no because this is 2021 when When we did the interview together. Kevin King: So that was Freedom Ticket 3 then maybe. Because Freedom Ticket 1 was 2017 with Manny and Guy. Freedom Ticket 2 was 2019. And then Freedom Ticket 3 was during COVID. That's when I had actually had COVID when we were doing that. And we didn't know it. And remember, Bradley was freaked out because he was going on a trip. And I think you or someone else there had been exposed to it. Was it you or somebody else? You're doing a pageant or something. You had some pageant coming up and you're like, I gotta be like, I can't be around this. So you interviewed me because we did little snippets in between each module. You interview me talking about my products or about all kinds of stuff. Shivali Patel: Yeah, and we've pumped out so much content together that I was like, yeah, it was Freedom Ticket 2.0, but you're right. It was Freedom Ticket 3.0 because it's 2021. And what a change of pace this has been because now I'm on the opposite side of the interview. Kevin King: That's right. I was like, Bradley, who is this girl? She's pretty and she's smart. I'm like, who is she? Where did you find her? She was just selling and we invited her to come in. I'm like, oh, all right, awesome. This is cool. So when did you start selling on Amazon? Before Helium 10 and all that, when was your first dab at actually trying to make some money selling on Amazon? Shivali Patel: Yeah, so it's actually been a bit of a journey getting into Amazon FBA and then getting to Helium 10 because right after I graduated college, I was going to go into med school. And instead of that, I was like, you know, even if I became a doctor, I would want to open private practice. And so it doesn't make sense for me to spend $300,000 or whatever the case may have been to actually go to med school and then proceed to a business model. And so I started scouting online in different e-com forums, taking quizzes, consuming knowledge like crazy on YouTube. And the first thing that I really got pitched into in the online space was dropshipping. So I actually built out a couple of websites, ordered samples, and then I just didn't feel right because I wanted it to be mine. So from there, I switched over into Kindle. Kevin King: What year was this? Shivali Patel: This was 2020. It's like right when COVID was coming around and nobody really knew, but it was a good place for me to get really dialed in. Kevin King: So you graduated college in 2019? It was 2020. So you're just a baby. Shivali Patel: Yeah. I was like 20. I don't even know which year I graduated college because I never went to an official ceremony. So I have no photos, nothing of recollection value. I got three degrees and didn't go to a single graduation. So that was great. Kevin King: That was me too. That was me. Good girl. All right. Yeah. Shivali Patel: I was like, this is not going to matter in the long run for me personally. Props to anybody else who wants to opt that route. I ended up going into dropshipping. Like I said, ordered some samples and then wanted to do something on my own. So I transitioned into KDP. I felt like it was a good place for me to learn the Amazon platform. Kevin King: What's KDP? For those listening that don't know what KDP is, can you explain what KDP is? Shivali Patel: Absolutely. It's Kindle Direct Publishing. It's a way for you to really take any story that you have in your life, any experience, if you have something to teach to people and monetize it. So you can build out a book really quickly. It's free to have an account and you can just upload, get that upload done in 20 minutes or less even and begin earning some money so long as you know how to market a book and you have something of value to add to people. Kevin King: So you branched from dropshipping into KDP and then you published a few books? Shivali Patel: I did. I published a couple when I was roughly 22-23 and I wrote those really fast. Self-help. They were on positive habits as well as being able to have positive self-talk with yourself. I'm very, I would say, overarchingly optimistic person. And so for me, that was something I had just come across. I loved how it was helping me go about my daily tasks in life. And so I took everything that I had learned, all the content I'd consumed. I actually did network marketing first when I was going through university, studying for medicine. I know this is all over the place, but I've tried my hand at so many different things. And through that process, I learned and I took all those learnings and put it into a book. And it was really, really cool because it was my first taste of money online and it got me really excited. I took all my investments and I went gung-ho all in on physical product after that. Two years later, well not even two years later, I think it was a year later, a year and a half later, that I got my first negative review. I went to a Facebook group and I was panicking. It's a typical entrepreneur's journey. You're in business alone, maybe, but you're not quite in business alone. You can go to people on community forums, even inside your groups, Kevin. And so people really learn from each other, network that way. And I was panicking. Bradley found me, bought my product, gave me feedback, was an absolute hero. And we followed each other for some time before I felt like we were friends. And then he offered me a position, not even a full-blown position at the time. I actually did freelance work for Helium 10 before I was offered a position as an evangelist. Kevin King: So what's evangelist mean? What does that mean? Is that like cheerleader? Is that like you just say Helium 10 is the greatest in the world and you go to events? Do you have a say in like any of the tools or anything? So what is an evangelist? Shivali Patel: We evangelize people to the gospel of Helium 10 and that can be a number of things. That can be running case studies because you cannot really teach in the space unless you have an active hand because the Amazon space is changing all the time, right? The algorithm changes. There's new fees being added. Maybe there's Chinese sellers coming onto the marketplace. How can you really cater to the market if you don't know what you're talking about? And so it does involve running case studies, having our own brands. Plus we go to conferences, we educate people on the tools, how to better use our tools. The more you can use the platform, the more comfortable you'll feel with your decision making and be able to go out and focus on the things that matter, be it scaling or be it just optimizing what you already have or launching new products. Kevin King: I've been impressed that your knowledge on selling has dramatically increased since I first met you. When I first met you, you were smart, but you were still kind of figuring your way. Now it makes sense. But now, when we talked in Hawaii last year, I was like, damn. And I've seen some of what you've been doing and some of the trainings you're doing, some of the PPC stuff you're doing, like when you host with Destiny and stuff. I'm like, the girl has come a ways. She actually really knows her stuff. So congratulations on that. Thank you. Shivali Patel: It means a lot coming from you. Kevin King: So so were you entrepreneur all your life like growing up were you doing little things or where is it the typical? Indian lifestyle like you got to grow up to be a doctor or a I'm a lawyer or whatever, and that's kind of how you lived. You said your first taste of actually making money was with the KDP, so did you do any entrepreneurial stuff before that? Shivali Patel: I did. That was my first taste of making money online, but I did do network marketing all throughout university. I was sort of a typical Indian kid. My parents were very supportive always. My dad actually told me he wanted me to be a pilot or a businesswoman, and my mom wanted me to be a model or a doctor. And I feel in some capacity I've achieved all those things. I have flown a plane before, though it was a one-off thing. It wasn't like I'm becoming a pilot on the side as a hobby. It wasn't anything like that. But they've always been really supportive. I just chose medicine and then I focused on that all throughout my life up until I obviously graduated when I did my switching into business. However, throughout university when I was getting those degrees, my uncle introduced me into network marketing at the time. And that was my first taste of business specifically. And I felt a lot of the skill sets were things that I loved. I loved meeting people. I liked challenging myself. I got really good at cold contacting. I built a team of roughly 40 people with network marketing before I decided that I wanted to go another route. And I have nothing bad to say. I think some people do feel that network marketing is not for them or that network marketing itself gets a bad rap. But I do believe it has a lot to do with who you are as a person, what sort of setbacks you're willing to navigate. As well as who your team is. And I thankfully had a great team that taught me a lot of things I think are still applicable to this day in business. Kevin King: You said there was four things. There was business, flying a plane, You touched on three of the four. What's the modeling side? You said you accomplished all four of them. What's the modeling side? Shivali Patel: I spent quite a few years in the fashion industry. I've walked New York Fashion Week multiple times. I've done commercial work. I've been paid for it. Really good money. I enjoy it as a side thing. I do feel to a certain degree unless you have really large major deals falling into your lap, maybe it's precarious work because you spend so much time at casting calls or something like that. And there's nothing wrong with that, but I just knew I want something that is able to generate money even if I'm sleeping. And so I still do modeling actually for brands when they offer. Sometimes I get reached out to and offered a job and if it makes sense or if it sounds like something I'd want to do, I'm totally up for it. But it's not my full-time thing. Kevin King: So is this modeling or influencing? Shivali Patel: Modeling, actually. Kevin King: Straight up modeling, so like fashion stuff or actually stills, basically. Shivali Patel: Yes, stills, magazine, runway. I've done Influencing for brands as well, but that's more so connected to pageantry, I'd say. Usually we have a set of sponsors if I'm participating in a competition and That's when I've really done all the influencing. Kevin King: You won some international pageant or something, right? Shivali Patel: Yeah. I held the United States title Miss USA, Miss International USA, and I got to compete in Poland in 2021. And then more recently, last year, I competed for Miss Universe India. Kevin King: That's awesome. Awesome. Congratulations on that. Thank you. So when you came to Helium 10, they hired you as an ambassador. What was it like seeing the other side? You had been on one side, now you see the other side with the software side. Was it any different or were you like a kid in a candy store? Like, oh, now I can really see how all this cool stuff works and I can see I can evangelize this and also use this for what I'm trying to accomplish for myself. Shivali Patel: Being an evangelist offers a really unique perspective for sure, especially when you're getting started and you're a newbie. You are that person who's a kid in a candy store. You don't know how everything works. It's brand new to you. You're being flushed with tons of information. In fact, I've been currently running a seven-day challenge for Helium 10 and there's so many people in there that are just getting started and they say the same thing. They're like, I'm overwhelmed. There's so much and I always say take it one day at a time. Everything takes time. Everybody starts in your shoes. And so going from that where I was doing a lot of stuff manually, actually going through categories, subcategories, trying to find a product and everything is changing in the landscape. I think it's so cool to come to Helium 10, having done things manually, having used some of the other platforms. Actually, I used to use other competitors. And now that I'm at Helium 10, it makes so much sense on why the data is important. Also being able to be in the space offers you unique insights into what is needed as a seller. And so we do work as evangelists with the product team to come out with new features, to come out with things that will truly drive everybody's. Kevin King: One of the things that I noticed when you came to BDSS Hawaii last year and you were doing the social media for me and you did an excellent job. You did a great job and you were hustling it and shooting all kinds of stuff and posting it. I noticed you were turning around these edits really quick and I know you had some tools but I'm looking at the editing and I'm like, Wait a second, this is not just some Lukie Lou that's editing this stuff. She actually knows the difference between medium shots, wide shots, close ups and everything. And then I asked you, I said, where'd you get this training? She's like, oh, one of my three degrees is in communications. How has that helped as an evangelist at Helium 10 where when you're creating content and you're creating stuff, does that give you a different perspective than maybe someone that doesn't have that kind of background when you're creating content for people? Shivali Patel: I think when you hear communications, you're like, what is that degree going to do? We all talk all the time. You don't need a degree for that. And while that may be true, I think there is a certain art that comes with it because you get to learn the marketing side of things. And for me specifically, my concentration for communication was in mass marketing. And that does involve public speaking. It involves things like those shots that you mentioned, wide shots, close-ups, how you can kind of transition between to get that seamless look. Any sort of public figure, any brand, any service requires marketing, requires some sort of appeal for the consumer. And I think having that degree has certainly helped me in being able to properly communicate what Helium 10 can offer to people as well as what my personal ventures have been able to add to other people's journeys. For example, making the mistakes. We all make mistakes and I definitely have had my fair share. Being able to have the confidence to share about them and make sure that other people don't make the same mistakes. And then also coming to people that are at events and helping you shoot your content and get that feel that everybody else in person was feeling out to people that didn't make it out so they can get excited about the next year. I think all of that gets conveyed because you're able to study something really in depth like communication or mass marketing. Kevin King: What is it that makes Helium 10? You've been exposed to a lot of the different softwares. I'm sure you've played around with some of the competition. You've been to events where you've heard speakers and you've met people from those companies, some great people at some of those companies. People always ask me all the time, what should I use? Should I use Datadive or Jungle Scout or SmartScout or Helium 10? Which one is the best? What is it that makes Helium 10 So much better. You know, this always gets under Bradley. Bradley, you're listening. Hello, Bradley. It gets under his skin when someone's like, oh, this statistic here shows that we're more accurate than Helium 10. And he's always got a case study coming out like a couple of days later on that. But what is it that makes Helium 10? You know, I go back to the early days of Helium 10. I was there at Helium 10. I don't know if you know my backstory or not with Helium 10, but I was there when Manny and Guillermo started it. When they first came out with Scribbles and Frankenstein and then there was Index Checker after that, I was helping them. I test all that stuff and throw things against the wall and try to break it. I've been there the whole journey. I believe that Helium 10 is the best suite of tools out there. What makes it better? You know it much better than I do. You guys are inside out of it. They can run circles around me on doing things on Helium 10. What is it that makes it so much better? Shivali Patel: As sellers, I think we're all just trying to help each other and I definitely think that's true across the industry. Everybody I've met has always been generous with tips and hacks, secrets, right? But at Helium 10, what I really adore about the place that I work at, obviously this might sound biased, but having come in, doing things manually, using other software tools, I think what's really cool is when a seller has something to say or requires assistance of something, Helium 10 always makes sure to implement that feature or tool as soon as possible. Sometimes the content also can get stale on certain platforms, right? If you are trying to base your tools in the present moment based off something that worked in the past, it's not going to have the same output. And Helium 10 does a really good job. As you said, you mentioned even Bradley, right? Talking about some sort of case study. There's always like a case study coming two days later. That, I think, is one of the things that makes Helium 10 so special. There's always a case study around the corner. There's always something new for Helium 10 to add to the space in terms of voice. And the features, the tools, the updates are always very much in real time. Kevin King: I think one of the most important things there that sets Helium 10 apart Most good software in the Amazon space is developed by sellers, people who are actually selling. And sometimes it's people who stop selling and the software is good, like you just said, and then it gets left behind because they're still not selling. But the best software out there is done by people who are still selling. Helium 10 has grown. I remember Bradley and I, when we shot the Freedom Ticket 4.0 last year, We went, there was some big event for PacView over in somewhere in LA that he and I went to and it was all these people in this room for PacView, all the sales reps and affiliate people and all that kind of stuff, people that really don't, aren't involved with Helium 10. There's like a hundred of them there. And we're just looking around going, holy cow, look at what Manny and Guillermo built and how it's turned into this huge corporation, this huge conglomerate almost. So a lot of companies lose track of that when they get big. They have all these people that are smart people that have nice degrees and big diplomas up on the wall, but they're not in the weeds selling. And the fact that Bradley is still selling, he's got a warehouse next to his Helium 10 basketball court at his house. And he's still selling with his family. The fact that you're selling, the fact that Kerry is selling, and then I'm sure there's a few other people on the team that I'm not aware of that might be selling. You guys are in the weeds still and so you can relate and you're bringing back stuff from events and from conferences and from webinars you're on and Q&As that you're on and whatever like, hey, we should do this, we should do this, or people are asking for this, this makes sense. I think that's a major advantage. Shivali Patel: It definitely is. I would agree with you there. Kevin King: What's one thing that you've contributed to Helium 10 that you're most proud of? Something that you like, maybe it's a feature that you like came up with the idea or it was a someone you introduced that it led to that you're really proud of. Shivali Patel: Actually, the seven-day challenge I mentioned earlier was one of my original ideas, and it's actually the initial stepway to some things that are coming in the future, and I can't talk about those just yet. But last year, inside the company, we did a hackathon. It was essentially a contest of ideas of what we could do to improve retention more than it already is. Obviously, we always want to optimize our numbers. Any business does. And so we were talking about that and also just catapulting forward And my idea won, and this was one of the things that came out of it. So it's also served as proof on continuing on the roadmap that I had pitched, which is really, really cool to see. What the seven-day challenge essentially is, is it's for Platinum users, or at least it started off being as Platinum users. Right now, the pitch point has changed a little bit, so I would recommend if that's something you, those of you that are listening in or interested in, make sure you check out the page specifically for that. That would even be found inside of your Helium 10 emails if you search up seven-day challenge. What it is is it's day by day. By the end of the seven days, you have a good roadmap to finding a profitable product that can generate you roughly $10,000 or more in revenue per month. And so that seven days is me getting on live, walking you through the tools. You can ask questions, any sort of questions that you have. We get into a Discord community. We network. We mastermind about what you could do differently. If you have questions regarding the product you're searching for, there's homeworks to turn in every single day. And so something that is really, really hands-on can be the thing that you're maybe looking for to find accountability or find that product that is going to compete with those Chinese sellers or with the low price point or with any sort of additional riffraff that ends up coming into the marketplace you will be worried about six months from now. Kevin King: So this is for platinum level. So do they have to have a basic knowledge? Do they have to have gone through a freedom ticket? They can be brand new. Shivali Patel: It started as somebody who subscribed or is just getting into platinum membership. However, that's kind of woven in and out. So that's why I said you should just reference the page to see what the current offering is. However, the actual setup does not require you to have any sort of knowledge at all. You can come in as a complete beginner and still know everything you need to know to find a profitable product by the end of the seven days. Kevin King: So how often are these, is this repeated? If someone's listening to this, because it's March right now, and they're listening to this, how often is it repeated? Shivali Patel: Our cadence up until now has been monthly. We took a couple months break for the holiday season, but we just did one. And so hopefully you guys would have new information by next month. Kevin King: And how do they find that? Where do they go to find out? Shivali Patel: Typically email, but you can probably also search up 7 Day Challenge and see if you can find a page for that, or we'll have it linked. I can get you a link. Kevin King: 7 Day Challenge. Shivali Patel: 7 Day FBA. Amazon FBA. 7 Day Challenge. Kevin King: You can Google Amazon FBA 7 Day Challenge and Helium 10, you'll probably find the direct page. Okay. And so in doing these, what are you seeing as the biggest challenge when people come in? What is like, has there been something like, you expected everybody to have a problem with X, but it's really Y. Is there something that's like, you're seeing like the overwhelming thing that people just misunderstand when they're getting into trying to launch a product? Shivali Patel: Actually, no, there hasn't been something like that. I tried to build the course specifically from everything that I experienced in my own journey as well as all the conversations I've had. And so it really is holistic. It covers everything from profitability into differentiating factors. For example, one of my products last year was a physical product that was combined with a digital product. And that was a pretty new thing in the marketplace when I pitched it. I've known so many sellers that have implemented that since, which is really, really cool to see. So many different topics that I feel the questions that are being asked are not always the same. It really depends. Some people have issues with finding a supplier because they're trying to come up with something that's an innovative product or maybe is a combination of a couple of products that they found while they were doing the research going through the process I showcased to them. And other times it's people that want to implement into something entirely different. In my last challenge, I had somebody ask me, can I use all these things for KDP? And I said, you absolutely can. The only difference is going to be KDP doesn't ask for the same metadata that Amazon FBA listings would. You don't need the seven bullet points. You just need seven backend terms. So there's some differences. And I'm just really glad to see everybody taking things in stride and making some progress. Kevin King: Do they have to pay for this or is it included with their Helium 10 membership? Shivali Patel: When they get the plan, it's included. Kevin King: So it's like basically you're getting free tutoring from an expert. Shivali Patel: Right. Kevin King: And free hands-on, not just like watching a course and then trying to absorb it, but feedback and hands-on, which is really valuable. Shivali Patel: Yeah, exactly. Kevin King: Is it just you? Do you bring in another like a sourcing expert or something or is it just all you guiding the whole thing? Shivali Patel: It's me guiding the whole thing, which has been really, really awesome to have completely that project and see it all the way through from idea into actual implementation. Kevin King: So are there replays of this? So if someone wants to go back and like, damn it, I just missed the one that just started. Can I see this on YouTube or in Helium 10 or somewhere where I can just go back and watch like your sessions that you do just to kind of pick up things here or there? Shivali Patel: It's a private link and it's very much live. So anybody that gets enrolled during the seven days has access to the replay links. After that, you would have to wait around for the next set of challenge. Kevin King: So what's been selling physical products, not the KDP but the physical products, what was your biggest challenge when you started? Was it money? Was it sourcing? Was it just getting Momentum going, what was your biggest challenge? Shivali Patel: There's constantly new challenges. That is baseline, I would say. And you always just have to learn how to navigate that. The first time that I ever launched for a brand, it was worrying about whether the capital investment would be worth the output. And at the time it was not because I had nine months of time where my products was just kind of stuck in flux because they couldn't verify my identity. I was too young. I didn't have any bills in my name. And so every single month I would send a utility bill in or something in. And they'd be like, nope, this is not you. They would reject it. And every single month I'd have to wait for the new bill and change something. And finally on the ninth month is when they accepted me as a real human being. Kevin King: This is Seller Central. Shivali Patel: Yeah, Seller Central. Kevin King: So make sure I understand it. You were selling and they were just holding your money. Shivali Patel: I was not selling it. That was the first ever challenge I dealt with and I was like, oh my gosh, what a nightmare because now I have all the inventory. It's stuck in storage. I'm paying monthly for storage. Plus, they're not accepting me, so what do I do with all this? I was so new to business, so I wasn't sitting there thinking about alternatives. Okay, can I pull my product out? Can I go digital? Can I put it somewhere else? I was stuck in Amazon FBA. I'm like, what do I do? How do I get approved? I just want to sell it. And then from there, as I launched the subsequent brands, I adapted. That wasn't the issue. Then it became, how do I deal with fallout from inventory? If I sell too fast, that became a problem for me. And that's a great problem to have. I'm very grateful. But it is something you have to find a cadence with. And that is something I still, to this day, struggle with a bit, to be honest. And also turning into external traffic. I've wanted to pick up ads, get better at it. So I think there's always something new to navigate. Last year when I was at BDSS, I remember listening to Melissa Vong and she was talking about Reddit and I was like, oh my gosh, that's a whole new world. I didn't even think about that world. Reddit forums are a really cool place to go to get your brand awareness out there. Statistically, they say that if you have a brand new brand, I don't know if that's the right way to say it, but seven times is the minimum amount of times before somebody says, okay, yeah, like I trust this brand. And I think Reddit forums, people are constantly on Reddit. I'm constantly on Reddit. And I just didn't even think about it as a traffic platform. If you can get your name mentioned, you can add enough value, then that is one additional way for you to have the brand awareness required for getting somebody to that purchase point. So yeah, I think it's just constantly evolving. There's been new setbacks every year. Kevin King: So you just said that you were at BDSS and you heard Melissa talk about this. Where do you, outside of Helium 10, Helium 10 Slack channels and what you share internally, where do you learn? How do you personally keep up with what's going on in the Amazon world and the latest strategies and techniques? Are you listening to podcasts? Are you following newsletters? Are you going to events? And taking notes, are you in a mastermind somewhere? How is Shivali staying on top of her game? Shivali Patel: All the above whenever I can afford it. So for example, if I'm at the gym, I usually opt to listen to a podcast, be it an AM-PM podcast, your sellers podcast. I'll listen to even videos that Carrie or Bradley do because all of us have unique case studies or experiences that we can learn from. And so we'll kind of tag team it. I'll also get on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a really great place for you to pick up some information from your network. Is your net worth something like that, right? And so I think LinkedIn is a really great place. There's always constant communication happening there. I also meet a lot of people at conferences. I am very privileged in the sense that I get to actually travel for my work and And share my experiences on stage. But at the same time, I get to meet a lot of really cool people who are doing amazing things in the space that I can learn from. And I end up building those connections in back hallways or in at lunches, at dinners, and then we get to stay in touch via WhatsApp, even, you know, groups or private conversations. And even FaceTimes, actually. I feel like this past year has really been about cultivating my relationships. And in business, that's certainly been one of those things where I've found myself even FaceTiming people I've met at conferences and being like, hey, like, what project are you up to? What are you doing? What are your goals for the next six months? How can we kind of, you know, add to each other's journey? So it's a constant process and it just really depends on how I can maximize my time doing two things at once. If I'm driving and I can listen to something, I will. If I'm working out and I can listen to something, I will. If I'm sitting down in one place and I think I need a breather, my breather might end up being just reading something or talking to somebody who's in the space and learning from them. Kevin King: You mentioned AM, PM and SiriusXM podcast that you listen to, but is there any, any others out there that you recommend people check out, whether it's a conference like, Oh man, if you haven't been to this conference, you should go to, This one, or if you haven't checked out this podcast or this, is there anything that if Shivali was making her list of top five resources for Amazon sellers, people going through the challenge, like someone's just eager and you can tell this person is just like, Just like you were four years ago, just eager to learn and absorb as much as possible. Where would you tell them to go? Shivali Patel: I think since everybody's journey is different, I would go to AMZ Online Summits. Orange Click does a pretty good job of making a really comprehensive list of different events that are occurring all over the world. And say you are somebody who's in Estonia, you might be looking for something that's based in Estonia, or maybe you're a new seller. And you have a different conference that you're going to attend outside of maybe BDSS. BDSS is very high level. If you are somebody who's been established for a while, maybe BDSS is the one that you need to be going to. Top Dog Summit from Tomer Rabinovich. I really think it just varies based off where you're based in the world and where you are in your Amazon selling journey because you as a seller at the end of the day want things that are applicable to your business. There's no point in you wasting time as a new seller in a room where you're maybe, well, it's not wasted time, I'd say, because obviously down the road, the goal is to implement that, right? You want to become an established and scaling seller. However, in the beginning, you want things that are going to be Put into practice right away and that is what's going to get you a little bit closer to that goal you want to get to. So really cater it to where you are at the present moment. I think listening to these two podcasts are great. I personally don't have any other ones to recommend because I consume all my knowledge in these two podcasts and everything else is really personal connections and LinkedIn and events. Kevin King: So there's a lot of people that that's all they do is personal as LinkedIn. And following stuff online or listening to the podcast or us talk or whatever. Sometimes someone will say, well, shoot, let's forget BDSS, which is expensive and high level or Tomar's event. That's just a normal Amazon event. You know, one of the Augustus Advant and Prague or something, you know, it's like, I don't know what the price is, 700 bucks or 600, 700 euros or something to go. Plus your hotel, plus your airfare if you're not local. So if you're in Europe to get over there, it might cost you 2,000, 3,000 euros or so by the time it's all said and done with food and everything. Some people look at that and go, man, I can't afford that. That's money I need to be spending on my PPC or I need to be spending on some A plus content or something. What would you say to people that don't get out? Should they put their priority first on the PPC money or should they find a way to actually do both if they can? What's the value in taking $3,000? You might have earmarked for PPC and you're doing fine now. Let's say you're doing okay. We're just taking that $3,000 and going to Augusta's event or some other, you know, not so expensive event like a BDSS. Shivali Patel: I actually just spoke at a mastermind that is run by Carl and Mike. They're based in Sweden. And it was really, really cool to go to that event because we were in the room and everybody was kind of masterminding it, right? Everybody sharing a little bit. It costs money to get to Sweden. It costs money to be in that room. It costs money to maybe pay for the hotel or even get the ticket into the room. However, something that Karl was talking about in one of his speeches of tips that he's sharing, he talked about how he boosted his conversion rate and how he amplified, multiplied his revenue by a lot that month. It was in the thousands. And so the tip that he shared, that one tip, if you just implement it into your business, would bring back such an ROI for your business compared to what you actually spent getting there. So I think if you take the leap, you go to an event, you really never know what sort of return you'll have. It's not just about, oh, I spent the money. Yeah. But what can you actually implement? What did you learn from the people that are there? And that sort of thing can have unlimited returns for you time and time again, not just that one month, not that year, but time and time again into the future. Kevin King: Yeah, I agree. Proximity is power. That's why I do like we just last month we did a market masters and Carrie and Bradley were both at it. We'll have to get you at a market master sometime. But that's one of my one of my favorite BDSS is great but this is even the next level because it's a weekend with 25 of the smartest people hanging out in a mansion and you're going through a process where you sit in a hot seat for two and a half hours and they work directly on your business. It's not general stuff up on stage that may or may not apply to you. It's like this is what I'm having trouble with and you got eight of the smartest people collaborating to work together to give you an action plan when you leave there and then you have the whole weekend to rub elbows with them and go deeper, dive deeper and hang out and get to know them. There's nothing more valuable than that and that's why Helium 10 Elite now has, Helium 10 Elite started out as Illuminati back in 2017 and then the name got changed in 2019 to Helium 10 Elite. And Helium 10 Elite is a monthly deal that Helium 10 offers. That's, I think it's like, you have to have the higher plan or, uh, it's like 400 bucks a month or something like that. But you get, what you get for that is you get a special Facebook group, a special group of other high level sellers. You get, I come on and I do a training every month where I curate a couple speakers and I do, uh, uh, some ninja hacks type of stuff that everybody loves that. And then I do present presentations and then we do in person events every quarter. Like we just did one in Germany, uh, and at the end of January, Bradley and I and Carrie were at. Unfortunately, you were not able to make it, but that one was really, really cool where we do an in-person event and we do that every quarter and then we do these weekly calls and you kind of drive the ship on one of those weekly mastermind calls where anybody can come in and for, I think yours is an hour, I do them for two hours. So one is Carrie, one is you, one is Bradley and then the fourth week of the month is basically me or give or take, you know, schedules and stuff. But there's a lot of value in that and I think people should be looking if they don't want to get out of their house or don't want to spend the money to travel or they got kids or it's just impossible, they should take a look at Helium 10 Elite. And that's like the next best thing they could have to that, right? Shivali Patel: Yeah, absolutely. I think if You spend your time actually talking to people who have been in the space and who have similar goals to you. There's no reason you wouldn't move forward. I absolutely think so. Kevin King: I mean, I've been on the calls that I'm on. I'm sure it's probably the same way on the ones that you do. We'll have 25, 30 people on there, sometimes 35 or 40, and it's just open forum. We go for two hours and sometimes I'll say, hey, this is what I'm seeing out there and here's some cool stuff I just learned from some event. And then someone else, they pipe up like, hey, I've got a problem with my shipping. Who do I contact for this? And someone else in the group, oh, I had that problem two years ago. Here's how you solve it. Or someone else say, what's working for this? And usually someone will pipe up. Occasionally someone, we're all like, I don't know. Unknown Speaker: Good luck on that one. Kevin King: Best of luck to you. I'm glad I'm not on your team. Thank God. But there's a value in that. And so if you're not doing that, if you're listening to this and you're not Getting out to events. Number one, you should be following AM PM podcast and serious sellers. AM PM first, of course. Make sure you listen to that one first. But no, you should listen to both. They're very good podcasts. They're very good. But then try to get out to events or join something like Helium 10 Elite and supplement that. And yeah, it's an investment, but you're making an investment in yourself. And that's what's going to move you forward and to keep you in the loop and to really help you in the space. So you mentioned earlier something about KDP. So you're doing something right now because you said that a lot of people don't have a lot of money to spend to buy products and to do the cash flow game it takes to do private label and wait and build that up. But they've got a cool idea and they want to leverage maybe some of their Amazon knowledge or the Amazon ecosystem with an idea of maybe they've got an idea for a self-help book or the book like you were talking about to help people out. Or they've gone through some sort of challenge and maybe they went through a mental challenge with somebody and they're like, I know how to deal with a spouse with mental problems and here's my tips and tricks. Or they have an idea for a children's book that they want to tell stories that they read to their children or something like that. KDP can be a great way to actually get your feet wet with Amazon, potentially make a little bit of money and not have to fork out a ton of cash, right? And kind of get the ball going. So can you walk me through how KDP works? So I'm sitting here. I can go to, you know, on AM-PM Podcast, we've had Morgan on talking about publishing your book. I've had other people come on and talk about, yeah, we can publish your book. And a lot of people publish a book for credibility. A lot of speakers, you know, big speakers of big events, they need that book that gives them that credibility. And it's a lead magnet. For other people, it's a passion project. And sometimes books can turn into a lot more than books. You start with a book and maybe if it takes off, you look at what was that series that was out of Seattle, not Fifty Shades of Grey, but the other one. Shivali Patel: There's a lot of books out there that do really well. Kevin King: It was a seven-part series. Shivali Patel: Harry Potter? Kevin King: No, not Harry Potter, but it was self-published and it turned into, man, it's like in 2010, 11. So when it came out, I'm totally drawing a blank right now on the name. But it went into like a seven part series and it spun off all kinds of merchandise and products and licensing off of that. Sometimes that can happen. So can you walk me through the process of, I've got an idea for a children's book. Shivali, how do I get this out there? What do I do? Shivali Patel: Yeah, if you're already selling, the process is actually quite similar for a digital product as it would be for a physical product. However, the cool part, as you said, there's many perks that it comes with. You don't need as much capital up front as well as anybody can do it. If you have a story to share, you absolutely can take that and then put it into Amazon and generate money from it so long as you have a market, a demand for it. And so, much like you would do a physical product, For KDP, you can still start inside of Blackbox at Helium 10. We have a keywords tab inside of Blackbox. Blackbox, if you don't know, is our primary product research tool. It processes over 2 billion data points daily. And so that's a lot of data you guys can go in and navigate through. Going into keywords, you can select the books category. That's not going to be Kindle per se, but it will be your paperback and hardcover books. And that can help you by inputting in different parameters, find a list of product ideas that you might want to publish a book on. So topics that you can kind of begin to dive deeper into. From there, go into Amazon, open those categories up, take a look at those topics, see if there's places for improvement. The same way you would go about validating your product idea for a regular listing, same thing here. Can you actually capitalize what already exists? And take a look at the book covers, take a look at the title. Can you make it better? Can you actually go in and add something that's different in the marketplace and yet incentivize sellers to purchase your book over theirs? Take a look at the review counts. You can also use additional third-party extensions that can sift the data for you. For example, Helium 10's Chrome extension can give you some insight into what's going on into that marketplace. And then from there, once you have a pretty good gauge of if that product topic is something you do want to actually write a book on, then there's four different, well, three different ways that you can create that book and then a fourth way to really beautify it. So, I'm actually coming out with a course next month that talks a little bit about going from idea into book in 72 hours that's really just helping you have sort of that accountability partner in getting that book created. It goes really in-depth. And so, what we really kind of dive into is all the stuff I just mentioned plus how you can write that book really, really quickly. So, my first two books I published under my name, I wrote them in 48 hours and I put them out because I didn't want to spend a year writing them and then have people write me feedback that Just made me sad, right? It's better to get the product out and running, take the feedback and then improve upon the product and continue going from there. After that, I've published ghost written books as well as books that are not in my name and you can do that too. So maybe you don't want the notoriety that comes with it or you're not using it as a leads magnet or you are using it as a leads magnet but you want to put underneath your brand's name, you can do that. You can go in and use AI. You can customize the ChatGPT and get it as knowledgeable as you absolutely You can get it knowledgeable to the point where it knows everything you would want it to know about that specific topic and help You write a full book out that way. You can also go in and do voice typing on a Google Doc, kind of like if I were talking to Kevin right now and explaining to him how to do X, Y, Z, I could just get a document to write it for me and then go in and format it, or I can actually sit there, carve out some time, and write the book. From there, you can go into different AI tools, like Typeset is really, really cool. I just started experimenting with that. Have you heard of it, Kevin? Typeset's really, really cool. It can help you beautify e-books really fast. And so going into an AI tool like that to help you format the book, beautify it, even if, say, graphic design isn't your strong suit, you can build something beautiful that is high quality, does have all the information there, and then you can upload it onto Kindle. It's a great place for you to get started if you want to even go into Amazon FBA and you just want to learn the ropes of Amazon or you can use it to make that your full-time thing. I would say publishing the first book maybe, you know, I do absolutely hope that you guys knock it out of the park when you publish that first book. But if not, you can use it as a learning experience and continue publishing books and even go on to build a publishing company. It really is up to you. Kevin King: 99% of books don't sell more than 500 copies. A great seller is 5,000. You hear stories of Britney Spears or Oprah Winfrey selling millions, but the normal book is less than 500 copies. So are there things that you teach or that you're going to be teaching that show how to actually get that ball rolling and how to actually promote it and get influencers to talk about your book and that kind of stuff as well? Shivali Patel: Yeah, they say if you build it, they won't come. You have to actually get people interested, pique their curiosity. And while building out that listing as a part of that, having great metadata, using the right keywords that I do go into inside of the course, I talk about how to use Helium 10's magnet and Cerebro tools, also some other extensions. that you guys can leverage. I also go into external traffic strategies really briefly at the end because I have something planned for later on for that. I want to make sure that you guys have the ability to get a really great book out first. From there, you can opt into external sites, so websites that already exist for readers. You can actually pay a fee and get listed in their emails. You can get listed on their websites. You can go and build YouTube, Instagram, TikTok content, especially since the TikTok ban has been lifted after a day. You can build all sorts of things and that can get you the eyeballs that you want to lead into conversions. Kevin King: So is it true that the cover of a book can make a huge difference in your conversions? I mean, there's so many people that don't spend enough time I have an actual book. I mean, the content may be great, but that cover, there's a science to covers of books. Do you have anything that you can share around that? Shivali Patel: I recommend split testing if you actually have the money for it and say you're having somebody else build out that book cover for you if you're on Fiverr. I recommend even having your designer create multiple designs or hiring multiple different designers to build a cover for the same exact book. That way you can split test it. I also am a creative myself. I quite enjoy making or doing rather all the things myself and so I'll go into Canvas, take a look at a template. Pick the custom sizing based off whatever book I'm designing a cover for and then create multiple iterations for the same book. From there, you can test it. You can use a third-party service to test that split testing or you can just go into Kindle and then upload it and track what your conversions look like. For that time frame and then select from there which one's doing the best. Kevin King: Can you do PPC on books? Shivali Patel: Yes, you can. Kevin King: You can do PPC. Okay. Shivali Patel: Yeah, and there's quite a bit of crossover. If you understand what Amazon ads is like for FBA, then you'll have no problem with KDP as well, but it is a different platform and the analytics are separate. Kevin King: So this will, Amazon will publish it as a Kindle book and they'll publish it as a physical book, right? And what about audiobook? Shivali Patel: If you choose to publish it as a hardcover or paperback, it's not a done deal. So when you post an e-book, it doesn't mean that it's also getting published as the other two. You have to select it and upload a different style manuscript because the formatting will vary if you're going into e-book versus paperback or hardcover at times, depending on which sizing you choose. You can also do an audio version. That's a field I have not yet ventured into, but I'm hoping to learn a little bit more about it this year. Kevin King: With AI, you can do full audio like my newsletter, the Billion Dollar Seller's Newsletter. I put an audio version of that out and it's in my voice and it's all done with AI. So it's not me reading it. It's done. I have a guy who I pay $300 a month that specializes in doing it for newsletters. So I send him an advanced copy. On Sunday night, he's in London and on Monday morning when I wake up, I've got the file back and it's 10, 12, 13 minutes of me reading and it sounds pretty good of reading the newsletter. So people that are working out or on the train or in their car and they don't have time to read, they can listen to it. And it's been gaining steam. So I encourage people to use AI tools for that if you don't have time to do it yourself. I mean, you got to fine tune it to get the inflection and emotion and all that kind of stuff, but it could be really powerful. What about AI for writing Kindle books? I mean there was a flood at one point like a year ago. Amazon was getting flooded because all these people were going on YouTube. You can make a million dollars this year. Just use AI to write travel books on Spain and Sweden and Portugal and all this stuff. And I'm putting out just garbage and just feeding the thing and Amazon had to do a crackdown. So how much is AI involved in the writing process when it comes to KDP? Shivali Patel: That is the caveat to publishing on Kindle is because the barrier to entry is so low, you are getting into a market that can be quite competitive if you don't know where to look. And that's where part of finding a profitable idea to begin with, doing your due diligence is so, so important. If you know where to look, then you have a space that you can actually make money in. From there, I agree with you. I think using AI can be a bit tricky because if everybody's using it, maybe you're publishing all the same content. And that is where I really pitch heavily for customized ChatGPTs. I think if you go in and you spend the 20 bucks to have a professional account, you can curate a virtual assistant on that topic pretty quickly that is knowledgeable, but it's going to give you information in a way that is stylized to the tone that you're putting in whatever expert you've created for that specific GPT. And so the information is, it sounds different. It's more humanized compared to what would be outputted if you were just going into a generic one and saying, hey, give me an outline for this book title for mindfulness for kids seven to nine or something like that. It's going to be a lot more different as an output because you didn't put garbage in as an input. Kevin King: I can see it as a great brainstorming thing too, not just for outlines and for necessarily writing it, but just like if you're writing a chapter and you want, it's a fiction and it's the person's going through the woods and there's going to be some scary event happen as they're walking through the woods camping. You're like, what can I have happen? You can ask the GPT, give me 20 different scenarios and then you come back and you write that yourself or something. So I can see it being Really good there. I remember I think it was Neil Patel and this goes for a KDP or a book or it goes for any kind of product. He says that the first 10,000 copies of anything you need to push and sell. So and after that it should sell itself and that's where I use the example of Atomic Habits. So he uses the example of like when Atomic Habits which is a famous book that sold 15 million copies all over the world. When that came out a few years ago, what he did is he lined up to sell those first 10,000. He did a launch and he went on like a hundred different podcasts. He would record them and say, please don't put this out until April 27th or something like that and had them try to schedule them all to come out within a week. They did this whole blitz and emailed his list and his friends and had everybody go buy the book to get the ball rolling. And then if it was just a crappy AI type of book, people are going to get it and not read it or go, this is bad and get those bad reviews. But if the book is good, then people are going to start recommending it. And that's what Neil says that you should actually use that, put out a quality product and then get the ball rolling, get a little bit of juice behind it. Don't just let it sit there and then let it sell itself. And that's what happened to go from 10,000 to 15 million without hardly having to do hardly anything. And so that's why I think it's key to actually, whether you're doing physical products on Amazon or you're doing KDP, especially in a world of AI, quality products. I was just at the Driven Mastermind back in January and it was a $35,000 a year mastermind that I'm in. And that's one of the biggest things that they were trying to drive home is like, look, In a world of AI where everything's going to be similar or its competition is so low, originality and quality of product are what's going to actually, and the human touch back to what we were saying earlier about going to events and stuff, are the experiences, are the things that are going to be most important. Because 10 years from now, the quality of life for a lot of people is going to be completely different than it is now. You're going to have robots and AIs and doing a lot of stuff that you're not going to have to do. It's going to be interesting to see where this goes. Shivali Patel: It definitely will be. I was just seeing that video. I don't know if you've seen it. I think it was CES with the robot. The woman robot. It's wild that that's actually coming to fruition because when I was younger, I remember watching the movie where the robots are taking over. I was like, that's so many years away. And that's here. That's this year that they actually have robots out for that. Kevin King: You're going to have Tesla robots in people's houses making scrambled eggs. Shivali Patel: Not my house, but probably his house. Kevin King: I mean, if you ever want to know what's going to happen, look to, you know, the porn industry usually leads the way on new technology. That's where a lot of stuff, that's where credit card processing online started. That's where video, that's where YouTube originated out of that. That's where a lot of stuff originates out of that industry and then things like CES and stuff. There's some big, big changes coming to selling with AI and everything, with intent-based search and with everything. It's going to be interesting. I bet with the Kindle, in three or four years, you're going to be able to hit a button on Amazon and you like this book, Shivali's book that she just put up. I'm the co-founder of the Little Princess and you're gonna hit a button and some AI like a Sora or something's gonna be behind the scenes or Amazon's own and it's gonna instantly create a movie of that book that you can watch and you can customize it and you can say, oh, no, I don't want them to go to this castle. I don't want them to go to the castle in Austria, not the one in Germany. And it'll change the whole thing and change the story to actually, I think it's gonna get to that level. But now is the time to get in and get established right now because I think big, big, cool things are coming on the horizon. We are on the cutting edge of this, whether it's selling products on Amazon and changing with the time and evolving with the time, or KDP, I think you're going to have a major advantage. Shivali Patel: Yeah, I think AI and Amazon and KDP are all here to stay. It's just a matter of if you actually get in and can navigate the waters, learn how to navigate them before it gets even better. Kevin King: So what's Shivali's ultimate goal with all this? Is it to become a successful author? Is it to build a business so you can travel the world and have fun? Is it to find the love of your life? Is it to exit for a gazillion dollars? In this world or something, what's the goal here? Or is it all of the above? Shivali Patel: It might be all of the above. I mean, finding the love of my life would be great, but also I think improving the quality of life for the people I love is most important to me. I think that the richest place to be is somebody's prayers and the most valuable thing we have in our life is the people that we have and the memories that we have. And so being able to really enhance that All around would be amazing. I think money is a vehicle for that and while I love gamifying the system and getting better every day, it's me against me, making the business better, scaling it, making the money. Those are all goals I have and the end goal is simply spending time the way that I want to with freedom with the people that I love. Being able to travel more, being able to take my family on amazing trips and whenever that might happen for my future family as well. Kevin King: Awesome. Well, Shivali, I really appreciate you coming on and spending some time today. This has been great. Shivali Patel: Thanks for having me. Kevin King: You're welcome. And be sure to check out Shivali's socials and actually go to Helium 10. I think it's h10.me forward slash elite. If you want to find out more about Helium 10 elite or if you're listening to this and you're not a Helium 10 member, you want to check out the Freedom Ticket. It's Helium10.com. Once you have any level of membership, you get access to my Freedom Ticket course that we talked about earlier. And yeah, I think that's it. Cool. Appreciate everybody. We'll see you again next time. Thanks again, Shivali. Shivali Patel: Thank you, Kevin. Kevin King: Great stuff with Shivali there. It's always cool to go behind the scenes and a lot of you are Helium 10 customers and you've seen Shivali on different things and now you got to know her in a little bit different way and see part of her journey and some of what she's working on. Great stuff. So thanks to Shivali for coming on the AM PM podcast. We'll be back again next week with another great episode talking about PPC. Shivali Patel: That's right. Kevin King: I got a guest talking about PPC, everybody's favorite pain point. And we go into detail on a lot of cool stuff. And just like Shivali said there at the end, some of her closing remarks there about family and everything. One of the models that I live with, and that'll be my parting words for you this week, is to me, my motto in life is life is about the experiences you have. And the people you meet. That's all that matters. The experiences you have and the people you meet. It's not how big your bank account is. It's not how big your house is or what kind of car you drive. It's the experiences you have and the people you meet. Don't forget that and you'll live a long and fulfilled life. Shivali Patel: We'll see you again next week. Take care.