#383 – The Benefits Of Sourcing Products In Indonesia with Wayne Thompson and Daniel Carlin

#383 - The Benefits Of Sourcing Products In Indonesia with Wayne Thompson and Daniel Carlin Speaker 1: Welcome to episode 383 of the AM-PM Podcast. This week, my guests are Wayne and Daniel from Bali, Indonesia. You know, a lot of people are out there talking about switching their sourcing from China and looking at alternatives to save on the Trump tariff, looking at Vietnam, maybe India, Mexico, Turkey. There's lots of places and there's lots of good choices, but one that's often overlooked is Indonesia. Some of the best natural resources out there and you can get some really good distinguished and unique items out of Indonesia and Daniel and Wayne have a company that's really greasing the wheels and making it super simple for you to do that. We're gonna be talking about the opportunities and how they can help you out in this episode. Enjoy this episode with Wayne and Daniel from Bali. Unknown Speaker: Welcome to the AM-PM Podcast. Welcome to the AM-PM Podcast, where we explore opportunities in e-commerce. We dream big and we discover what's working right now. Plus, this is the podcast where money never sleeps. Working around the clock in the AM and the PM. Are you ready for today's episode? I said, are you ready? Let's do this. Let's do this. Here's your host, Kevin King. Speaker 1: Wayne Thompson and Daniel Carlin, welcome to the AM-PM Podcast all the way from the other side of the world in Bali, Indonesia. How you guys doing? Speaker 2: Oh man, it's good. It's good here. Nice to see you Kevin. How are you? Speaker 1: I'm good. Good. How are you doing Daniel? Speaker 3: All good here, yeah, looking forward to this. Thanks for having us on the show. Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad to have you here. This is going to be good. I think we're going to open a few eyes to a few things in this show and maybe give some people some alternative ways to think about what they're doing. But before we get into that, I have to mention, you guys are both in Bali, right? Speaker 2: Correct. Speaker 1: So a lot of people, you know, Bali is one of those destinations that everybody has on their bucket list, it seems like. And now you guys are just living the dream, sitting there in Bali. How long have you been in Bali? Speaker 3: Well, I've been here a long time, actually. So this is year nine. And I've built a couple of e-com brands from Bali over the years. And so it really is living the dream, hanging out with my wife, building businesses in a nice villa by the beach. It's awesome. Speaker 1: What about you, Wayne? Speaker 2: Yeah, for me, it's about five and a half years now. But what if I tell you my feet haven't touched the sand in the past two years, man. It's just, you know, I drink the coconuts, but, you know, and I see the beautiful scenery here. But man, I need to get off to the beach too. Dan is a surfer, so he get it in once in a while. Speaker 1: What's it like actually living there? Is it just overrun with tourists? Or is it, you know, there's a local vibe where You expats can just hang amongst each other. Speaker 3: It's an interesting place we debated constantly here in the family about you know is Bali the right place long term and we've already by the way built a house in the mountains in a building our home so we're very much put down roots here. But yeah, it's look, we live just outside the main tourism area, which is Canggu. It's right, it's called, it's the hotspot right now. And there's three big centers. So you got the Canggu area, you've got Ubud, which is more sort of in the sort of Midlands. And then you have the Uluwatu Bukit Peninsula, which is a surfing Mecca spot. And all three, a lot of tourism for sure. And like you said, a lot of expats, but Living amongst it, you tend to sort of just carve out your own little communities, you know, so you kind of, you know, we stick to a pretty local place, we've got the places that we go, we move around the way we do, and then we try and integrate, you know, with the local community as well, Balinese particularly, yeah. Speaker 1: I know I was there in 2008, so it's probably changed in the 15, 16 years since I was there quite a bit, but I remember I stayed in Ubud, right on a resort, right on a rice paddies, and I remember going around, and I just remember the handcrafts, just the amazing quality of like, I don't know if they still exist, but there's these little villages everywhere, and you just pull in, I had a little local guy, and he'd tell me, okay, this village, It's like a gated little like square almost and you go in and everybody in there is doing woodworking. They're doing some sort of carving or like elaborate carving and you go to another one it's all painting and there's all these painter artists on the side of the road selling paintings and all. Does all that still exist in Bali? All that handicraft? Some of it's aimed at tourists but it's just junk but some of it's actually really high-end quality stuff. Speaker 2: Oh man, yeah, it's still here. I mean, Bali has shifted a little bit because there's some construction that has come in over the last couple of years. So some of those little places got kind of pushed further in, outwards. Nonetheless, they do exist, man, and actually, you're finding that you'll see better quality stuff, even, and even more people participating, coming from the villages that's outer, inwards, with their product, you know, at certain designated locations to actually sell their goods to locals and to internationals. Speaker 1: So a lot of people when they think of Indonesia, they don't even know, first of all, that Bali is actually in Indonesia. They think it's some island like Tahiti or Hawaii or something like that. But it's one of what's Indonesia like? 3,000 islands or something like some crazy number like that? Speaker 2: Actually, 17,000 islands. Speaker 1: That's right. I was way off. I know it's way in the thousands. 17,000 islands. Bali is just one of them. So the handcrafts on Bali are really amazing, but that kind of goes for the whole country too, right? There's a really Subculture there just like master craftsman doing all kinds of cool stuff. Am I right? Speaker 3: Yeah, the thing that's worth pointing out to Kevin is like, you know, Indonesia is not new to exporting overseas. This has been going on for decades. It's just, it's just the way it's being done is different to what we're used to with an Alibaba or whatever else. It's still done via trade shows and these types of things and sourcing agents and middlemen. This is kind of how it's been done up until this point. But all over Indonesia, especially in some of the bigger places like Java, Sumatra, these are huge populations and there's tons of stuff being made. Everything from, like you said, handicrafts, furniture, sustainable products, fabrics, it's endless. There's so much here. Speaker 1: And Indonesia, it's not, I mean, there's some, you know, poverty and stuff just like there is anywhere else, but it's not necessarily this backwards place. I mean, Jakarta is one of the biggest cities in the world and there it's sinking. So they're actually building what a new capital, I think right now, if I recall, 200, what, 270 to 300 million people. It's almost the size of the United States. And there's actually a thriving like e-commerce and social media community there. It's like one of the What, 4th, 5th, 6th, something like that, largest e-commerce, 4th in the world or something like that, right? There's a lot going on. Speaker 2: Yes, it's actually the 4th populous country in the world with about 200 and I think about 277 million people. So yeah, quite big indeed and actually when it comes to commerce, They've been lurking in the background for a while, 60% adaptation before COVID and about 90% now after COVID. So they're growing quite rapidly in that space. In fact, Bain Capital and Google just did Their annual economy C2023 study and put that out and Indonesia was rated like number one and the number one space was e-commerce. So, it's really a hot market right now and as... Speaker 1: Growth potential and opportunity. Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, exactly. And as Dan says, there's a wealth of, you know, for instance, raw material. When you talk about oils and incense and essential oils and stuff like that, a lot of things that the world is not really, has not really, you know, explored just yet, but it's, we're here on the ground, so we see it, we know it. Speaker 4: Hey, what's up everybody? Kevin King here. You know, one of the number one questions I get is, how can you connect to me? How can I, Kevin, get some advice or speak with you or learn more from you? The best way is with Helium 10 Elite. If you go to h10.me forward slash elite, you can get all the information and sign up for Helium 10 Elite. Every month I lead advanced training where I do 7 Ninja Hacks. We also have live masterminds every single week. One of those weeks I jump on for a couple hours and we talk shop, we talk business, do in-person events. Helium 10 Elite is where you want to be. It's only $99 extra on your Helium 10 membership. It's h10.me.me forward slash elite. Go check it out and I hope to see you there. Speaker 1: We'll talk about what you guys are up to in just a second, but just to get a little context, what's, Wayne, what's your background? I think you came from the ice cream world or something. You had built another tech company or something like that. What's your, you went from scooping ice dairy to scooping money or something. Unknown Speaker: What was it? Speaker 2: Yeah, well, let's just say I dibble and I dabble. I'm truly adventurous, man. And I think for me, I don't go around looking for problems to solve, but somehow problems find me. And, you know, I think I have that muscle and I've developed that muscle over time that I'm able to lean into that. And so, you know, I have a degree in computer science and economics and It doesn't serve me well that much now. The networking was cool, but being here on the ground in Indonesia, it was just a wealth of knowledge I've learned since we started working on our project that we'll explain later. Yeah, Dibble & Dabble, an ice cream, cold stone creamer franchise, the first to bring it to New York State. And then after that sold out and then went to Atlanta where I bought a paving company. And so I went from extreme cold to extreme hot. So you can think walking into a blast freezer, a walk-in freezer and then end up standing out in the sun, you know, with my team of about 109 guys, At its peak and then you know got in 2010 and so we had to fold it because of the whole Lehman Brothers and stuff like that and then entered the computer space and then did something in that and then left that and then just kind of came to Indonesia man to put my feet in the sand and drink some coconuts and here we are. I haven't done that. Speaker 1: That's what happens when you try to build a new company, right? You don't have time to put your feet in the sand. Unless you're like Daniel and you live on the beach, then he has no excuse. Daniel, you're from down under, right? From Oz, originally? Speaker 3: Yeah, born and bred in Sydney, Australia. Was there all the way through until, but did a lot of travel actually. So I started my after school, after I finished school, I kind of worked in the film industry actually as a sound guy. So I'm a sound engineer by trade. Did that through my 20s and then late 20s ended up in I did a stint as a personal trainer. I was living around Bondi Beach, which is kind of the bubble, I guess it's equivalent of the California beach side kind of thing. And yeah, I was in corporate speaking and I had a corporate health company where we went in and we did health checks on organizations and then we had a clinic network attached to that. And so it was very much more of a very corporate style gig going to the city in a suit every day. And then about that time, I met my girlfriend at the time, who was from Norway. She moved down to Australia. Within a couple of years, we both just decided we just didn't want to be there anymore. I'd had enough of the company I was in. Monica didn't really like Bondi. So we actually got a webinar invite in our inbox, which said, learn how to make a million bucks on Amazon. And I watched this webinar and you know how it goes. And this was back in 2014. They talked about it and they had a course And by the end of the webinar, I had my credit card out. I bought the course. Monica had a corporate job. I still had my other business and we ended up splitting the tasks of what we need to do. So she was focused on product and suppliers and I was doing the keyword research and the list building and all the sort of logistics and other stuff. So yeah, we launched our first product in late 2014 and it was a water filtration product. So it was kind of like a pitcher with a filter in it. And it really took off actually. I think a lot of people at that time, it was still pretty early days compared to now and so it was pretty easy to launch products and get ranked pretty quickly and start making some good money. And so only three or four months after we launched that first product, we decided to move over here to Bali. And our plan was to be nomadic and be here for a while and then other parts of the world and travel around. The business just took off and we said, well, let's just stay here for a year. And then here we are, eight years later, and so ended up building that business up and we sold it at the start of 21 to one of the aggregators in the States. And so, yeah, from there, I took a couple of years off, been building houses, And just hanging out with the family. I've got a young son now, the girlfriend's now the wife, Monica, and she's the one who built the whole thing with me. And then started getting bored and thinking, okay, I'm ready for something new. And I got introduced to Wayne. And when I sat down and Wayne told me what he was doing, you know, I got so excited. It was like, wow, this is just an awesome opportunity. So I've joined forces with Wayne and completely committed to the vision, you know, of what we're doing here. Speaker 1: And that vision is by Amiya, right? By Amiya.com. B-U-Y-A-M-I-A dot com. And so what you guys are doing is basically, for lack of a better, just to make it simple, it's a little bit different than this, but it's basically the Alibaba of Indonesia, in a way, with kind of a unique twist and stuff on it. Would that be fair to say? Speaker 2: That's correct, man. So next time you don't have to travel here to get your big door, your statue. Speaker 1: Yeah, but that takes part of the fun out of it, you know. Speaker 2: Buy Me will take care of it for you. But yeah, Buy Me is the name. And for those who want to know, it's more a play on buy. A is like the first letter and Mia means mine. So it's pretty much buy one of mine. But on a marketing front, it's You know, we can put a twist where it's buy a lamp, buy a table, buy some this, buy some comfort, always buy a mirror. And the goal is, as you said, to simplify it. It's kind of like the Alibaba with the concierge touch, top heavy on sustainability and just really doubling down on great customer service, allow you to source the best of Indonesia. We curate the best across the entire country and kind of put it together. On the platform and allow people now to have an alternative to Alibaba, you know, from raw materials. Of course, we started with home decor products, furniture products, beauty and care. And as Dan mentioned, Indonesia is well known for fabrics all around the globe, but pretty much anything that you need from Indonesia, man, we got you covered. We're trying to make it aesthetically pleasing. But seamless to use and so that's what Buy Me is. Speaker 1: So it's a little bit different though like an Alibaba, I would go to Alibaba and I would type in, I don't know, a water filtration system and up would come all these manufacturers that make these and then Alibaba just makes the connection. They're basically just a middleman, a broker and if I want to use them for escrow services or for inspections or they offer some other services but pretty much it's up to me from that point forward To deal with that supplier, negotiate the price, organize the shipping, the whole nine yards. But like you said, yours is more of a concierge service because of language issues and some other things. Basically, if I come into you, we'll talk about that in a second, but I'm not going to be buying a water filtration thing probably because that's probably not what Indonesia is best known for, but I'm going to be buying some charcoal things to take the smell out of my shoes. Just dropping my shoes or whatever to take the smell out. I would come to you and say, I'm looking for this and you would, how's the process work? Do you say, okay, what are you looking for? How many units? What's your price target? What's your quality target? All this kind of stuff. And then you go out and you have, I know you said there's like 30 plus thousand guys, I don't know if it's products or suppliers, they're on the website and you say, okay, here's the six that match. You get me some samples and then if I like the samples, I choose somebody and you kind of orchestrate and hold my hand the whole way, all the way along. Is that correct? Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much. It's, you know, we do end-to-end. So from start to finish. So we have about 30,000 now, 30,000 products and over 1,300 suppliers and all of that was gained over the last six months. The platform we took a while to build because we have to get it right. You know, how you do build a platform, something like this in the US is quite different from how you build it here in Indonesia. You mentioned something about the language barrier but besides that, there's a sentiment, there's how the people behave, tradition and culture. So we have to, we had to build technology to navigate all those complexities and nuances. But what you see now is where, you know, because of that, it forced us to do more of a concierge type platform. And so the platform will do a lot of the heavy lift, but we can chip in at any given time, for instance, You log in, you find a product that you like, you add it to your basket, you submit a quote, an inquiry, we send that off to the supplier, the supplier sends that back to us, that gets displayed in your buyer's portal, you also get an email alert. And then if you agree with that, then it's off to the races. You make your payment and the suppliers start making. But besides that, if you want to communicate, we open a channel so you can communicate directly with the supplier, all the while we are there using technology to monitor the conversation in more ways than one, and then we can actually Step in at any given time to make sure that the process is rather smooth and not a cumbersome. Process for both the buyer and the supplier. So we're integrating a lot of AI now for translation. So that's going to help translate from any language to Indonesian and then back to the language of choice. So we're doing things like that to make sure that it's as seamless as a B2C. You know, I think that's what a lot of B2B sites were missing with a concierge touch. So end-to-end, we take care of all the logistic costs for you, all the QC costs, QC for you, you know, we curate the best of the best and we do a bit of a hand-holding as much as we can. Speaker 1: How much customization can I do? Is it I can only go with what is there or can I customize my logo? If there's a guy that's got, I don't know, some really cool hand-carved door and I'm like, no, I don't want a Romeo and Juliet scene. I want a, I don't know, a Disney fairytale scene or whatever it may be. Can you go out and get these guys to do that and make samples for me? Or is it I just got to go with like these are the products we have from our suppliers and Choose one or how does that process work? Speaker 3: Yeah, so the way that works is the answer is yes. Basically, we let the manufacturers and the artisans decide if they want to allow their products to be customizable. In most cases, the answer is yes. So, for example, Rattan baskets come in lots of different types of colors of weave and stuff like that. So, you can choose that stuff. White labeling, putting logos on and all that stuff, no problem at all. Packaging, no problem at all. We can help with all of that stuff along the way as well. But when it comes to customizing something like you mentioned, like a hand-carved door, absolutely yes. You can customize whatever you want. It just comes down to a question of timeline and price point and all that sort of stuff. But a lot of the handmade nature of the products in Indonesia allows for that. But then you have to be extremely rigorous with QC, which is why we do it. So sorry to jump off that track, but QC is worth mentioning as well. We should talk about that. Speaker 1: So, is most stuff, I mean, I know Indonesia is not good for like anything that requires a mold, you know, injection molding or any, a lot of electronics, that's really not what it's known for. It's more the handcrafted, handmade stuff, but is this truly handmade with guys sitting on, guys and gals sitting on the floor crafting this stuff or is it, is it handmade that's made by, mostly by a machine? What is the true type of stuff that's coming out of Indonesia? Speaker 2: Yeah, I say it's a little bit of both, right, but mostly you do have those individuals that is sitting on the floor or they have a small manufacturing facility that they work out of, you know, some, a lot of women, you know, doing these paintings of these statues and the guys doing the carvings and stuff or vice versa. So you have a eclectic mix and then you have on like Java and stuff bigger manufacturers that they do more of the the bigger type items but the artisans You know, there are plenty, man, all across Indonesia. In fact, I think Bali is small potatoes to some of those bigger guys and places where they have a lot more artisans. For instance, we went to the 38th annual trade show, myself and Dan and the team, and what we saw there, man, was Extraordinary. They were all from all different parts of Indonesia and you can find everything from, say for instance, medical equipment, which you wouldn't think of Indonesia as that, but also raw materials, for instance, charcoal and coconut briskets and oils and beauty and care products. It's just a wealth of stuff that's here and I think The thing is, you know, people don't know about these things. And what we're trying to do is to bring light to Indonesia itself, but also the fact that Indonesia have great products, man, at competitive pricing. And people can really have an alternative to the Alibabas of the world, especially if you sell on Amazon and Shopify, Estee, and stuff like that. And because we offer end-to-end, we can take care of all that stuff for them. Speaker 1: I see it as major differentiation because right now China is the world's factory and so most people are going to Alibaba, global sources are one of those. Which are all great and they're finding a lot of the same stuff or they're going to the Canton Fair or to EWU or to some of those. It's the same old stuff and a lot of people are now because of the 25% extra they call the Trump tariff here. You know there's an extra cost of goods but Indonesia coming into the U.S. doesn't have that so that's an instant savings right there. But then you're gonna be finding stuff that's unique, that's differentiated, that's not What you're finding everywhere else and i think that's a major a major advantage and i don't know why a lot of people haven't really paid attention and china gets all the credit then. People are like, well, I'm tired of China. Let's look at India and Vietnam. And some people here in the States are like, well, how about Turkey or Europe's Turkey? Or in the States, it's we should look at Mexico, Central America, South America, because it's closer and easier. But like you just said, a lot of those places are great, especially like Mexico and South America. But the vast majority of the raw materials are still coming from the other part of the world. So they may have the labor to put it together there. And they have something, copper, and there's some stuff that's in Mexico. The vast majority of that stuff still has to come from Asia and so why not just do it at the source and where you can get it actually probably better quality and people that it's been passed down in their lineage and their families for decades or for centuries actually doing this stuff. What are some of the challenges? Does everything need to go through, for people that are listening, have to go through Jakarta or are there like a lot of big major ports, you know, like China's got crazy number of ports all over what you can go through or is it, you know, is it, I know there's pickup in Bali but does everything have to end up going to Jakarta and then get rerouted out or is there direct from Bali to the United States or from Java to the United States or whatever, how does that work? Speaker 2: Logistics from Indonesia has never been a problem. You do have a lot of players here on the island that does logistics. And also Jakarta is a big hub, big port. And also, I forgot the other island, but getting stuff from Indonesia is not a problem at all. In fact, as you said, it's 25% less for the same product or similar product coming out of China. So, coming out of Indonesia, sorry. So, yeah, so Jakarta has, I think, one of the biggest ports, so some of the things get routed through there, but nonetheless, they have really good logistic infrastructure that can get your goods to anywhere in the world, frankly. Speaker 3: We also, on our platform, when someone buy a meal, when people make an inquiry and we go to the supplier and we come back, One of the things that we do is we get some shipping quotes before the order or production even starts, just so the person on the other end can get a feel for what the shipping is going to be. And then we do a firmer quote towards the end. So we've got partners. We can also advise on, you know, whether you've filled up a container or not, or whether, you know, what it would take to fill up the container, maybe you need another 100 units. So we've got some algorithmic stuff that can help sort of figure that sort of thing out. And so like, this comes back to the concierge part, like, because, for example, in the US, people might not know what shipping costs or might be concerned whether they can They can trust that or they have to figure it out for themselves. That's what we're trying to do. We're trying to sit in the middle as the trusted partner and really just help out both sides, the buyer and the seller to make the transaction happen. And that includes things like shipping and then the QC side of it. I mentioned before, it's huge because of the handmade nature of a lot of stuff. It's not like China where they operate like where they use like, for example, the standards that they use out there like they check maybe 3% so it's a thousand units they maybe check I don't know 30 units or something like that. Here in Indonesia the QC standards is checking almost every piece. So it's a much more detailed and rigorous QC. And so what we do for the buyer is the money comes to us as the platform. We give a portion of it to the seller to start their production and whatever their costs are. And then we have a couple of QC checks through the process. And each time they pass the QC, they get a bit more money. So we basically just make sure that the quality is really good because we don't want to have a situation where container lands in the States, someone opens it up and goes, this isn't what I ordered. So we're very, very rigorous on the QC and all the QC reports get uploaded into the buyer and seller platform so that both buyer and seller know exactly what we're up to. Our team also knows what we're up to. And so we can just manage that whole process all the way through. Speaker 1: You guys coordinate the whole like getting samples and all that stuff before we go into production. What about quantities? Since it's a lot of handmade, is it more ideal for 50 units, 100 units, 500 units or can some of these places do 100,000 units? Speaker 2: So some of these places can do up to 100,000 units, if not more. It's all about, for example, here on the island of Bali, we wouldn't ask any of the artisans here to do that because there's not that capacity for factory that's here on the island. But in Java, then they do have those. And those companies have been shipping overseas for other brands anyway. What a lot of people don't know is there's a lot of big brands that's sourced out of Indonesia. They do it low-key, but they source out of Indonesia anyway in large quantities. We've been here, Dan and myself, a combination of about 15 years. We know where those facilities are. We have people here on the ground and we can make sure that if you want a quantity of 100,000, you can get it. And if you want a quantity, if you're a small Amazon seller or a medium-sized seller or sell on Shopify, we can facilitate your needs for half a container or for getting some stuff out to you quickly. Via air, you know, air transportation. So, you know, we do have all that in place. And some of it, you know, as a new startup, you know, we are still learning on the fly. But guess what, we have to prove ourselves and we want to stick around and be here for a very long time. So it's incumbent on us to do our best and to facilitate both big, large and small. Speaker 1: So the way you guys work since it's a concierge service, I'm coming to you, I'm finding my charcoal, whatever thing I made out of charcoal. I'm saying I want 500 of them. You match me with the manufacturer. I say, this looks good. They can do what I want. They send me a sample. I sign off on the sample and then I say I need 1,000 units and the price is coming back at, I don't know, $3 a unit for this thing I'm ordering. So then I send you 3,000 bucks or how does it work in China? I pay 30% down and then 70% but since you're basically, you're paying the amount, do I, just from a cash flow point of view, if I'm going to switch to Indonesia, do I got to pay you everything up front and then you dole it out and so it's pretty safe or am I paying you in stages? Speaker 3: So what we're talking about here is payment terms. And so basically, the way that we're approaching this at this point, and like Wayne said, we're learning, we're building an airplane as we're flying it, right? So we're learning on the fly. But the way that as we get good feedback, actually, Kevin, people like yourself giving us some great feedback, you know, we're doing kind of like a tiered approach to that because When you're brand new, so someone's coming from, and this was even the same on Alibaba when I was sourcing through Alibaba, when you're coming through to a factory for the first time, and if you're gonna buy like, let's say it's 50 or 100 units, generally then, yes, it's upfront, 100% upfront. Speaker 1: Yeah, small amounts upfront. Speaker 3: Yeah, but of course, as you get bigger and you build trust with us as a platform and also as the seller builds trust with the buyer directly, then payment terms can get offered. So we're gonna put some, we already have put some standardized kind of Payment terms together that as you hit different thresholds. So for example, you know, once you get to orders of $20,000 or more, it's only 50% down and 25% before shipping and 25% on arrival or something like that. And then we have various stages. So the higher, obviously, the more the value of the order is, the better payment terms we can give. We're also, we're also working on financing options. So some of when you have a look at like an alley, like trade assurance, so that's maybe not the best example. Some of these other players out there like fair, you know, these guys basically can offer invoice financing. On the buy side but also the sell side. Speaker 1: Factoring, yeah. Speaker 3: Yeah, factoring, yeah. So we're working on that now through our payment gateway that we're using. They have a product that allows that. So we're just working on getting the scale we need to then qualify for those programs so we can then extend those to our buyers and sellers. So yeah, our job, you know, is to just whatever we've got to do to figure out how to support both sides is what we're about. Speaker 1: So your fees I saw in some of your literature are about 25% to 30% or so. So in this example where I'm buying 1,000 units of this charcoal for $3 a piece, that's $3,000. Since it's a small order, I'm going to probably just have to send you the whole $3,000 because it's pretty small, which I should be able to do. And then on top of that, you're charging a 10% commission and then like a, I think a sourcing, a one-time sourcing fee of like 10%. And then I think it goes down to 5% on subsequent orders. And then there's something for handling logistics, like was, I think it was 8% and something, a little fee for the quality control. So all that added up. It's like 25 to 30 percent. So instead of three grand, I'm sending you three thousand eight hundred bucks or something for this. And so I just factor that into my that's going to be my landed or actually on top of that's the shipping. So whatever the shipping is. So let's say the shipping's a thousand bucks just for argument's sake. So forty eight hundred bucks. So my landed cost is plus maybe a little bit of duties coming from Indonesia. Call it five dollars a unit or something like that. Is that basically the whole. General summary how it works. Speaker 3: The easiest way to break it down without there are a few pieces like that but the easiest way is we take 20% on the transaction so basically whatever you're buying it for there's a 20% on top. We mark up the product at the start from the seller and And then there's a 10%, but it basically works out to be 20%. And then shipping, if we do the shipping for you, you don't have to use us. Speaker 1: So you mark it up from the seller, so the price you get from the supplier, you bump that up a little bit, and then you add another 10% on top of that? Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. Speaker 3: There's 10% at the start, what you see is already got 10% on it, and then we charge 10% on the transaction. So basically it's sort of shared between the buyer and seller but it's 20% from the very original price of the product. Speaker 1: And that's on every order or just the first order and it goes down on subsequent orders or is that negotiable? So I have a product that's taken off and I started with a thousand and a year from now I'm ordering a hundred thousand. That's negotiable I'm sure. Speaker 3: Yeah it is. To start with what we're doing is having a first order and then it comes down to about half that for the subsequent orders. And then after that, because obviously, you know, I think one of the things we're very aware of is the same thing that happens on Ali is once you build relationship with a factory or a manufacturer, you just go, you just cut Ali out of it, right? Yeah. A lot of cases, you know, and so one of the things we want to do is to provide enough service level that people want to stay on the platform. So, you know, yes, you can decide to go and figure it all out by yourself and save yourself 20%. Or you can go through us and let us help you do a lot of the heavy lifting. And focus on just doing the selling and the e-com side of it, you know. So it's... Speaker 1: You don't have agreements with the manufacturers that if they sidestep you that they're out of the program or anything and so you could if you want to go around. You don't encourage that because you're gonna have some headaches and stuff but I'm not saying people should do that because there is a value in what you guys are doing. I mean providing that service, it's hands-off basically. It makes it pretty seamless and easy and it's worth that. Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, we have that and we are cultivating even more detailed plans that will You know, kind of hold some of these suppliers that we support accountable if they break some of the rules. But nonetheless, you know, we can't stop people from doing what they, you know, want to do and suppliers sometimes, the same time, but we have safeguards in place to, you know, to try to protect the integrity of the platform and the members on it. So, you know, some of these things, you know, to be straightforward, you know, we're working on it as we go in a sense that we will try something for three months only to recognize that, hold on a second. We need to tweak this a little bit. So we are tinkering as we go. Nonetheless, we saw, for instance, as I told you before, within six months of just launching the platform, we grew like 6,000 products, 5,000 products a month being uploaded to the platform. And then, you know, we like, What 200% every month of suppliers just onboarding so we are actually the first one and now the biggest B2B player here in Indonesia. So growing that fast, you know, we can miss a thing or two, which is why the tinkering is rather important in the sense that we have to Look at things and then willing in-house to decide. For instance, myself and Dan, we meet all the time and we're like, okay, this seemed to work last month, but it's not going to work for the next couple of months coming by. So we are consistently tweaking. The goal is to accommodate our customers, to meet them where they are, and to make sure that over time we build a relationship To the point where we are trusted, where they find us as a valuable source and if it means that we have to adjust our rates sometimes to facilitate growth, then we're a startup, we're willing to do that. Speaker 1: So you're not corporate, you're lean and nimble right now and you're adapting as you go. What about the threat of like an Alibaba or someone that's just got unlimited money in their pocket coming in? I mean, they might buy you, maybe that's what your goal is at some point, but what about them just coming in and saying, look, look at these Byamiya guys, they're kind of crushing it here, let's wake up and we got money, we got networks, let's just go in there and take it all from them. Speaker 3: It's actually a great question because I asked Wayne the same question when I started to talk to Wayne about the business because I was a little shocked there wasn't A big B2B player here. I was like, no, that can't be right. So I went out and had a look as well. And both Alibaba and Amazon are invested in Indonesia in big marketplaces here. So we have a bunch of B2C huge marketplaces that are doing half a billion to a billion US a month turnover. These are huge marketplaces. Tokopedia is one. Shopee which is out of Singapore, Lazada which was originally Philippines, you know these guys are all here and Amazon and Ali are making investments in those. Speaker 1: Those are B2B or B2C? Speaker 3: They're B2Cs. They're B2Cs. Speaker 1: Because I was always trying to TikTok recently, you know, a few months ago, got booted out of, because there was a big uproar about all the artisans and saying, this is, all these social media people are just crushing us. So they banned e-commerce on social media. And then Alibaba is trying to come in and take, you know, make some agreements and see if they can weasel their way in on some of that. But it's a big issue. Speaker 3: Yeah, well the TikTok thing, the law right now is that even all the B2C marketplaces here, they're not allowed to sell any products under US$100 per unit that come from outside. It has to be from Indonesia. So it's actually been really tough for these big guys in this last little while because they've taken a huge hit on their revenue because they're just not allowed to sell a lot of stuff that they were selling before. Back to the reason why I don't think some of these bigger players did it. I think a couple of them actually tried about six to seven years ago from what I can see from sort of researching into it. But like Wayne mentioned at the start of the call, in Indonesia, the internet adoption was really low. It was like 50, 60% just four years ago. And the artisans are spread across the massive archipelago we've got here. To actually get these people online, digitized, good listings, good photos, it's a real, to be honest, a real pain. It's not easy. It's a heavy lift and one of the things that when I spoke to Wayne initially, I was like, man, this is a massive thing that we're going after here and it's going to be huge in terms of workload and it has been. What we've done to this point to get to get the sellers on there and now what we're doing is even like we've got an ambassador here in Indonesia and she's tasked with going and building partnerships now with all the manufacturing associations here to help us bulk on board sellers, but then also to provide seller education and training and to show them how to work on the platform. We're facilitating their photos. We've got AI tools helping to write product descriptions. We've really got to help them get online and get digitized. And I think this is also one of the reasons why I don't think they're going to be too quick to want to cut us out. I think we're going to be a really valuable partner for the seller and the buyer. Speaker 1: So do you have people on the ground, two or three guys getting on a moped, going into a village? Going in to these guys that just got on the internet or still aren't on the internet and saying, hey, let me show you something here, we can make you some extra money. Basically just boots on the ground, just guerrilla marketing it, basically? Speaker 2: Yes, but I must say, I'm on the moped going around too. You know, as a founder slash CEO, man, I think it's absolutely necessary to put boots on the ground, your boots on the ground. So, you know, this stuff has been building for the last two and a half years before we even deploy it into the market. Market and it was hitting the pavement the hot sun shaking hands and one thing you know to add to what dances building these relationship with these artisans is not easy they have to be able to trust you. Bring you into their communities. You have to stop by there sometimes and have coffee with them. Sometimes speaking with the bigger guys for hours at a time, but they know and they have your back and then they spread the word. So they become your ambassadors over time. And I think sometimes that's what a lot of the big boys miss. Okay. You can throw a lot of money in. It doesn't mean that. They're going to, you know, immediately be comfortable with you and doing business with you. But what we've done is we build from the ground up. We nurtured those relationships, even when COVID was going on and, you know, they couldn't sell their stuff. Buy Me was actually born during that period of time, only to find that, you know what, them telling us we don't have that access. We sell on WhatsApp community, Facebook community, Instagram. We want a true B2B marketplace that represents us. If you look at the site, also we have videos of showing how we go to these facilities, we take videos of how they make the products, we display like meet the makers, we do some of those stuff just to show our appreciation to the community. Of partners that we have and you know we ask them to be our liaison on the ground so you know yes of course the big guys can come in whether they buy us out or not, I want to just make something clear right now while I look you guys in the eyes and and people are listening and Dan already knows where I'm going with this, we are coming And our intention is to be one of the biggest, not just in Asia, but across the globe. We know our niche, we are studying the big guys, every font changes that you make on your site, we know. You have the data, we don't, but we are following what you are doing and we are lockstep and our intention is to do that. So I don't know how else to put it, man, we're coming and we're not slowing down at all. Speaker 1: So this was your baby originally. Dan, as I said earlier, he came on after you guys met and saw what you were doing. Dan has, from what you've said, maybe I'm missing something, but he seems to have had the e-commerce experience, the sourcing, all that, and you had a little bit different path, Wayne. So how did this idea of, how did you come about this? What, during COVID, were you just sitting around going, God damn it, I'm just gonna start me a little sourcing concierge company here and just, I'm gonna go pound the pavement on my moped and talk to all these villagers? Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, not even close. Speaker 1: I mean, I knew I was just making something up there. Speaker 2: Not even close. I mean, I was literally enjoying a little bit of the ballet life. You know, at one point I was so bored, I decided, okay, I'm going to start vlogging. So I put a team together and that's how we found, you know, out about this issue. We were just going around, you know, talking to suppliers, interviewing them, kind of like the late Anthony Bourdain would do, you know, hitting up the suppliers, kind of like Discovery Channel meet the Travel Channel when it comes to products and suppliers. And man, we started getting a lot of hits on that, but one young lady, she said to me, well, what happened to us now when you leave with your cameras and your crew? You know, we're still selling our products, you know, on WhatsApp and all this. And I said, nonchalantly, you know, and innocently being innocently naive, I just simply said, yeah, just put it on some site, a B2B site, and you can still sell. And she said, we don't have one. And I thought, no, no, no, that can't be the case. And on the way back, it was about two hours back to my house. I was sitting in the back and I was just kind of Googling stuff. And I realized that, hold on a second, a big country like this, almost 300 million people do not have a B2B infrastructure or technology where Indonesia can put out their products and they didn't. And after doing about two and a half months of due diligence, hitting up all the logistic guys, talking to them, you know, I found out that, wait a minute, this stuff is warranted because there's still stuff going out of Indonesia. But what's happening is they have sourcing agents and agencies on the ground. And when international people will just, you know, kind of Talk with them and they will do it for them. But there was not a platform that they could actually just look, see what they want, and it takes care of them, you know, from start to finish. And that's where Buying Me was born, man. And Dan just came in, you know, about four months ago, and he has a wealth of knowledge when it comes to commerce. I mean, he built his brand. You know, massively know about sourcing from Alibaba, know about making the products, know about selling it. And Amazon, so he's at both ends, right? And for me, yes, of course, you know, I know a lot about tech and all that, but to have someone like that, and he's a machine. I mean, you see him there, he's a machine. So he brings some structure. He brings some intelligence when it comes to commerce in our vertical. And man, we're like a family. Batman and Robin is what we call each other. It's kind of weird sometimes when we take Each other, good morning Robin, good morning Batman, but man it works and the team loves it and we're just here to crush it, point-blank period. Speaker 1: And you're not just doing B2B, aren't you doing an app or something, Bomzee or something like that, that's also like a D2C? Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker 1: Indonesian market like where like locals can buy from artisans directly, do I have that right? Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Our core focus right now is B2B because there's a couple of things that we have to button up, but the goal is to also build Bumsi, which is a higher end on the market for Indonesians to shop all stores and boutiques here in Indonesia. And the reason why we're focusing on the stores right now is because they have, especially individual sellers, they have a problem with inventory management and inventory control. And also when it comes to quality, a lot of these boutique stores across Indonesia are set with, you know, they have inventory, they know how to please, you know, good quality and stuff like that. And they're doing good business, but never before have a marketplace kind of just curate all of them and have it in such a way that you can purchase anything from any store in Indonesia. So our intention is to Build that out also and then, you know, have that ecosystem readily available, you know, here in Indonesia. So there's big things going on in Indonesia and there's, you know, You have two guys here that's, you know, we know the market quite well. As I said, there's 15 years combined here on the ground, you know, both of us. And, you know, we're no scrub. We know our stuff. And, you know, we're not We have a little chip on our shoulder, but we're humble guys and we mean well. And not only that, we're solving a big problem here, man, because some of these guys, they come into Indonesia and they exploit the labor force here. I hate to say it, but some of these guys, they work for peanuts and that's because they did not have another way and we're giving them an alternative Put your products, get international exposure, communicate with the buyers and then, you know, you negotiate and you get, you know, proper monies for your day's work. So, it's a labor of love, man, a problem I wasn't looking for, but it found me and here we are. Speaker 1: What are the lead times typically? China is typically about three to six weeks. What are lead times for a lot of your, I know there's variables that determine that, but what's a good just ballpark lead time? Speaker 3: I would say you're probably more six to eight weeks here, mostly because of the handmade nature of a lot of things or just what the capacity of these factories can do. So to give you one example, when we were at that last trade show, I met one supplier that looked like a tiny supplier. And they said, oh yeah, these three products we just supplied to Crate and Barrel. I was like, wow, okay, what sort of volume? And it was huge volume. And I said, how long would it take you guys to produce 10,000 units of that wooden teak stool? And they said, oh, about three months. So they can do production at pretty big scale, but yeah, you do need to factor that in, obviously. And that's part of what we do in that first step, actually. When you make an inquiry, not only do we tell you The price, depending on the volume, not only do we tell you the shipping estimate, but we'll also tell you the production timeline. And that's one of the things that we really want to work with on the seller side to make sure that they do give themselves enough room to do it, as well as enough time for us to do QC checks and then fix anything that goes along the way. So I think at the end of the day, I would say longer than China, but no big deal once you know what that is. You just manage yourself accordingly. Speaker 1: You kind of touched on it earlier, but what are some of the products that you should not expect to do in Indonesia? And what are some of the products that are very ideal? Just rapid fire list of don't think you're going to do these here. It's not the right place for it. And these are the ones you should be looking to do. Speaker 2: Hmm, that's an interesting question. I will say when you're trying to do maybe like these animal skins and those type of products, You know, I think that could pose a problem. But pretty much, man, I mean, Dan... Speaker 1: Like no electronics, no injection molding, that type of stuff is to stay away from for the most part. And the specialties are more the sustainable, the raw material, the coconut, the pineapple, the bamboo. That's what I'm getting at. Speaker 3: Wood products, there's a lot of amazing wood products here. So teak, teak, shiuchi, you mentioned mahogany before, bankerize, another wood. There's three or four woods that are produced in massive quantity in a lot of different products. So woods are great. Like you said, sustainable stuff like bamboo, straws, grasses, rattans, a lot of the fabrics that are used, everything from hemp to linens to, you name it, there's so much of that stuff here. But the sustainability products definitely are a highlight. And that's one of the areas where we're focused on because we've got You know, Europe planning to be completely out of plastics and other products within a few years. So, you know, and I think Indonesia, from what I've seen, we do that stuff better than China, just because of the raw materials we have here. And then when it gets into this stuff like, wow, so coffee, massive, massive coffee producer here, I'd say probably bigger than Central America and places that you would already know. It's huge here in Indonesia, like there's massive And anything coconut, so you mentioned coconut charcoal before, like those little shisha briquettes, those things. I met a guy at the trade show that was shipping something like 50, 40 foot containers a month with his little charcoal bricks, you know, just massive scale. And then the other ones, a lot of the spices and things, so clove, ginger, cumin, turmeric, you know, these kind of spices and stuff get shipped out of here in massive scale. So for things like For white labeling and stuff like that, those types of things, if you want to do a coffee brand, there's so much coffee here, it's ridiculous. The samples and different flavors and you can go nuts here on coffee. Speaker 1: You said clothing, linens, is there a cotton industry there or is it made out of something different? Is it made out of bamboo and other fabrics? Speaker 2: Huge, huge hit. Yeah, yeah. One of the world's number one producer of fabrics here from cotton, batik, you know, coconut, bamboo fabric, I'm sorry. You know, they're all banana leather, pineapple leather, You know, just regular leather, it's all here, you know, it's just that a lot of people around the globe have not massively, you know, attempted to, you know, inquire about it or source through Indonesia. But now I think also with, you know, issues that's happening right now, you know, Indonesia is now at the forefront of growth, man. I mean, so, you know, for anyone that's out there that's looking for unique items, you know, here you got two guys, we're willing to work with you if you're small brands. If you are in a business of starting something, you can just reach out to us and one of the things we have a massive database of things that even not yet on our marketplace. that we have access to, that we can help you to build your brand, we have data, we know what's working, we know what's not and then also what I also want to say is that what we do is we use data to help our suppliers to acknowledge or see trends And then, you know, work towards those trends, you know, not just develop products that's not going to be in demand, you know, on the world market. So we are two-sided marketplace, but also two-sided marketplace with a purpose. You know, we want to make sure that our buyers are well taken care of, and we want to make sure that the suppliers are, you know, well taken care of in the form of educating them, but also nurturing them when it comes to growing their business. Speaker 1: Wayne, Dan, I really appreciate you sharing today the opportunities in Indonesia. This has been great. We could probably keep talking for quite some time here. But I think everybody listening out there, if you haven't explored Indonesia, I think it's worth a gander and worth taking a few minutes and having someone on your team or doing it yourself and taking a look at what you might be able to do in Indonesia, not only from a cost-savings point of view on the on the tariffs, but for someone that you don't got to go into a blind. I mean the guys here at Biomia can can hold your hand along the way, make sure everything goes smoothly, any bumps in the road they'll take care of them, you don't got to be stressing out and worrying. And there's, I think, a lot of cool differentiated products that you can be first to market with that nobody else has, that they're not going to be able to find somewhere else. I mean, you go in, like you just mentioned, Dan mentioned the Crate and Barrel. You go into Crate and Barrel, just think about that. If you've been in Crate and Barrel, how unique everything in there is. And you don't see most of that stuff. You might see in, what's that store, Elm? A few things, and maybe Alan, there's a couple other places, but the vast majority of that stuff you don't see there. I buy at Crate and Barrel. I got some Crate and Barrel stuff in my house, and it's really good quality. And so I think, you know, from an aspect of uniqueness, returns, quality issues, like you said, they do QC almost every single piece, if not every single piece. I think you'd almost be ignoring the opportunity if you don't give Viamea a chance and actually take a look and just see, dabble and just see if there might be something there that works for it. So it's Viamea, B-U-I-A-M-I-A dot com. If they go to the website, they're going to get Somebody else or how do they if they want like you you just offered up Wayne that you'll you'd be glad to jump in and Here in the beginning while you're growing everything Helps help help some people out. How would they actually reach out directly to each of you? Speaker 2: Dan at by Mia, right then I think Daniel at by Mia and it's just Wayne at by Mia and I think you know, you get a com yeah, I mean Yeah, we we're here to help and and I mean I You know, even being at the CEO and COO level, we don't make ourselves unavailable. We are available for the person that want to purchase $5,000 or the stuff to $500,000 plus more. You know, we're just that kind of guys. So yeah. Speaker 1: I've got a guy that wants to purchase a hundred million dollars. You good for him too? Unknown Speaker: We love that guy. We also love the guy who wants to invest. Speaker 3: We're also fundraising. So we're also on LinkedIn. So you know, one of the things that we've been doing is growing by partnerships, right? So we've got partnerships with some of the Other the big B2C marketplaces here for helping things like labeling, shipping, logistics, stuff like that. So we're building via partnerships. So if anyone's out here listening to this that feels like they could add value, we'd love to hear from you. You can get us on those Gmails or via email or just look us up on LinkedIn. So if you just I guess you're putting our names at the bottom of this podcast somewhere. We're both on LinkedIn. We'd be happy to hear from anyone who's interested in partnership, investment. We're open here. We're just keen to build this thing huge. Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, gentlemen, I really appreciate your time. It's been great chatting today and I'm sure we'll chat again soon. Speaker 3: Right. Thank you so much, Kevin. Speaker 2: I appreciate you, buddy. Take care. Yeah. And I'll see you in Bali soon, right? Speaker 1: That's right. That's right. I got to get back over there. As you can see by this episode, Indonesia should be on your radar for sure. Reach out to the guys at BuyaMia if you want a helping hand in getting that started or just to explore and just to see if there is actual opportunity for your business or for your product line in Indonesia. Don't forget if you haven't subscribed to the Billion Dollar Sellers newsletter, go to BillionDollarSellers.com. Brand new issue comes out like clockwork at noon Eastern Time every Monday and Thursday. Speaker 4: It's totally free. Speaker 1: And if you missed the Billion Dollar Seller Summit, There's an in-person one coming up in May in Hawaii. We'll be back again next week with another incredible episode with another awesome guest. But before we go, gotta leave you with some words of wisdom. You know, you don't need to outsmart others to outperform them if you can outposition them. You don't need to outsmart others to outperform them if you can outposition them. See you again next week.