#328 – Secret Tactics Of Chinese Amazon Sellers Revealed With Eve Chen

#328 - Secret Tactics Of Chinese Amazon Sellers Revealed With Eve Chen Speaker 1: Welcome to episode 328 of the AM PM podcast. In this episode, I'm speaking with Eve Chen. Eve is based in Shenzhen, China. She's a seller that is sold on the Amazon.com marketplace and actually exited her business for eight figures. And she's got a lot of insight about how Chinese sellers think differently than Western sellers and a couple of really cool stories too. I think you'll enjoy this episode. Unknown Speaker: Welcome to the AM-PM Podcast. Welcome to the AM-PM Podcast, where we explore opportunities in e-commerce. We dream big and we discover what's working right now. Plus, this is the podcast where money never sleeps. Working around the clock in the AM and the PM. Are you ready for today's episode? I said, are you ready? Speaker 2: Let's do this. Unknown Speaker: Here's your host, Kevin King. Speaker 1: Welcome to the AM-PM Podcast. Today, I have a very special guest coming all the way from China, from Shenzhen, I believe, in China. Her name is Eve Chen. Eve, how are you doing today? Speaker 2: Hello, Kevin. It's really nice to be here because I watch all your online videos when I was learning Amazon and I'm really a big, big fan, so really very happy to be here. Speaker 1: You mean the online videos, were you watching like just the free webinars and stuff or were you watching like Freedom Ticket or what were you watching? Speaker 2: So I used the Helium 10 because of you and also I watched all your Freedom Ticket and everyone who wants to enter Amazon I will say watch that first then we talk otherwise we don't have a ground base. Speaker 1: So what year was this that you actually watched the Freedom Ticket or started getting involved in Amazon? Speaker 2: So from 2016, I knew about Amazon. Why? Because my friend who are living in Shenzhen, they got rich that year by selling Amazon and I was like broke From my last business, and I was really have absolutely no money at all. And I saw like, I think they're not smarter than me. They are not working harder than me. Why? Why are they richer than me? And as I asked them, so then they told me they are doing this thing called Amazon FBA. I was like, what is that at all? And then from 2017, I was really like desperate and broke. So I started to study that. And because I had no money, I was searching online for the different courses and to understand. So in the beginning, I bought something just from Alibaba, tried to sell that and I figured that there's no way making money and they are lying to me, they must make money somewhere else. But until 2017-2018, I was alone at home and then every day watching your videos and basically every videos on YouTube I've watched when they talk about like how to do Amazon, how to do product research. And of course, I find your content was the best. This is why like two years ago when I met you, I was so excited. And so from 2019, so end of 2018 is where I find a business model that I see there's hope. So which means everything I launch gets sell immediately the next day. So I know I was in the right path. So beginning of 2019, I start to have my first employee. And 2020, of course, is great year, double down. 2021, I sold a business. Speaker 1: Yeah, so if you were broke when you started, how did you because you you when you sold your business just recently for you was doing eight figures a year, right and gross revenue? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: So how did if when you were in 2016 2017? If you were broke, how did you finance your business? How did you buy the inventory? And did you work out like special arrangement with a supplier where you could pay them later? Or how did how did you do that? Speaker 2: Actually, I started with $10,000 and slowly moved to $50,000. $40,000, $50,000, and it's like all in. So every cent I have, like besides, I was also like doing part-time job just to get money to invest it. So every cent matters to me. And I put all into the Amazon. I don't have any debt. I didn't borrow any money except from my mother. I might borrow $10,000 once for her for 15 days. You know, when Amazon pay me back, I pay her back. Also, the good thing about Amazon is that they pay you every 15 days. So if I'm out of cash or I have problems, I just talk to the factory, tell them, okay, can I pay you one week later? Then I pay them and ask them to deliver. The key is that I always pay them, and when I will be delayed, I have no money, I always cost them, explain upfront, and they also trust me. So this is how I grow. So first of all, all in. Secondly, no debt. Because I was alone, no money, I only choose the product which brings money. I mean, I don't, so any product, if I ship there, And make no money or only, let's say, 20% profit. So I know it sounds high, but actually 20% is not enough. You have to go 40%. Then you are not in debt and your cash flow is positive. Otherwise, I realized that if your profit margin is not high enough, then the more you do, the bigger you are, the poorer you are, and all your money are tied in the inventory and in Amazon. For yourself, you have no money. Speaker 1: What was your cost of the product from the factory? And what were you selling it for? I mean, all you had a bunch of products, but what's like a good, good product for you? Speaker 2: Okay, good product is like really good. It's like $1 plus the shipping, I mean, $1 from the factory $2 product shipping, arriving on Amazon, and I setting for $20. I mean, there was a time I was setting for $29.99. And then the competition comes out. So I was setting For 20 and there was time like I goes down to $12.99 and $9.99 and I give up on that product because if they don't make money I just cut them that day. I don't waste any second on those like no profit things. Speaker 1: So you grew this over three or four years into an eight-figure business, right? Speaker 2: Yes, yes. Speaker 1: And so were you taking any profits out along the way or were you still reinvesting everything or did you take a little bit of money out so to pay your bills or take a nice vacation or something or were you just constantly reinvesting the money and just living as cheaply as you could? Speaker 2: Actually, until the beginning of 2020, I was like broke, like I really like cooking at home and eating by myself and hiring like the cheapest people having the broke office and all of that. But because of the COVID, there was like two, three months that the factory are not working. I don't have to pay anyone I'm ordering, but because they didn't deliver, I don't need to pay anything. I just realized that The cash are like accumulating more and more and more. And then I said, okay, let me put away 50% of whatever I get. And see how it works. So again, I limited myself to that whatever comes back every 15 days, 50% put away, I'm not touching it and see how far I can go with another 50%, including doubling down, including the inventory. In that case, because of the limited resources, I really have to be very careful with my decisions and where I allocate my money, which inventory comes first, how do I ship my product. So from 2020, I was able to save 50% of whatever I get from Amazon. Speaker 1: That's awesome. What kind of products, what category were you in? Speaker 2: Jewelry. Speaker 1: And jewelry, so was this like costume jewelry or was it like Halloween jewelry or jewelry for New Year's or just cool necklaces and rings or what kind of jewelry was it? Speaker 2: I had like 3,000 aces and all that what you have mentioned I have all sold them, yeah. Speaker 1: 3,000 aces yes so was that 3,000 different types of jewelry or some of that like maybe a thousand different things but some of them are in different colors or different stones or different lengths. Speaker 2: 3,000 ASINs, 3,000 listings, some of them are color variations, some are stones, some are silver, some are cheap jewelry, so it depends on what kind of ASIN, but I have a certain amount of factory I'm using, so it's not much, so it sounds a lot, but actually it's a variation, but I don't put them in parent ASIN, I separate them. Speaker 1: So that's a those are light easy to ship don't so you could air freight those over to the US You didn't have to ship by sea or anything. They're super lightweight Don't cost you much in fulfillment and you're paying a dollar or two dollars landed and selling them for anywhere from When things got bad to ten dollars to as much as thirty dollars or more. That sounds like a pretty good business to me. Speaker 2: Yes, and that is true that I'm really very cheap therefore I don't do air like I'm not allowed my people to ship by air so I'm giving them So my requirement, because ship by air is the easiest thing, but it's not the most profit for the owner. And how I do that is that I give them a bonus. And then I say, if this 3000 aces, none of them are out of stock, then let's say you get $500 that month. And then So you are allowed to ship once by air, and then the rest you have to ship by ocean. So this is the way how I can motivate my people to really look carefully. Because if you open the gate of saying you can airship everything, and then they just airship everything. They just ship today, tomorrow, then there's no money seeming in their mind because they are the employee mindset. I know it's a great product, but it doesn't mean that I allow them to ship per air. That is what I want to clarify. Speaker 1: So would you say you have an advantage since you're Chinese and live in China and you're dealing with the Chinese manufacturers, do you think you have an advantage over the Western people because you speak the language, maybe like you said they trust you more because you're local, do you think that's an advantage to selling on Amazon, being based where the manufacturing is? Speaker 2: Yes and no. So let's say what you mentioned for the factory trust, they love Western sellers much more than Chinese sellers because I might negotiate with them 10 times. Every time I order, I negotiate and they don't like me. And if they have order from you or from any Western seller, they will put your order in front of mine because the Western sellers have a much better reputation. And so I don't think that's an advantage. And then the second thing, yes, I am sitting in China, but it means I don't know what American wants. And I have no experience with branding. I don't have local warehouses. If anything happened in the US, how are the things returning to me? Never. What can you do? Throw away. So actually, the moment that goods leave your warehouse, leave China, It's bye-bye. So you never see them anyway, and it's great if you can turn them into money. Otherwise, they're just gone. So I don't think that's an advantage. And actually, it's a much higher risk. So if I'm a Western seller, I have some locations in America. If something happened in the Amazon in the US, I can just ask FBA to ship back to my homestay in the US somewhere. But for Chinese sellers, that's like impossible. And also for the customer service, like Chinese sellers, they really don't know how to write great listings, also pictures. I don't even know that what my product, I mean, I know who will use my product after I try them. But before that, it's very difficult for me to imagine what product Americans would like. Speaker 1: So are you using like Helium 10 to find what they were liking or are you just guessing? You're just looking and hey, there's this necklace looks pretty good. I can source that and let me try it and see what happens or were you using tools to try to figure out exactly what you should sell and what you shouldn't sell? Speaker 2: Yes, yes. I use Helium 10 to do product research and my most important job is to find where the niche are. So I mean it's It's jewelry, but jewelry and jewelry, there are big difference. So I have to, I have to look at where are less sellers and more demand, like you have taught us. And, uh, uh, yeah. So, and, but you can do research as much as you like without trying, you never know. So for me, the first thing is to just, Ship, I don't know, 100, 500, 1,000 and try. And then see, will they get sold or not? If not, just forget about it, move on to the next. If it's getting sold, then you ship in and then let them slowly, slowly rank. But I have never done any black hat thing because I don't believe that's a long-term game. Speaker 1: So what was your best if you had to guess like your best-selling piece of jewelry sold in the whole three or four years I sold 10,000 sold a hundred thousand pieces. What do you think? What was your probably the best seller that how many pieces did it sell? Speaker 2: The best seller was per month I was selling 1,500 pieces to 3,000 pieces a month. That was my best selling product. Speaker 1: How many people did you have? You said you hired your first person, but just before you sold, how many people did you have working for you? Speaker 2: I had 20 people, 10 working in the office and 10 working in the factory. I mean my own warehouse. Speaker 1: Oh, in your own warehouse. Speaker 2: Yeah, so because we do 100% quality control, because I cannot afford any bad reviews, and I don't trust factory will do that well for me, so I ask my people to check everything, like look at every product once. Speaker 1: That's a big task of that many pieces and that many SKUs. That's a lot of work. Did they find a lot of problems that you had to... Speaker 2: Yes, in the beginning, but every time I find a problem, I will yell at the factory. So after you yell at them for one year, two years, they stop. So they will know, but they will say like, oh, but if you want this, we can do, but it will be like 10 cents more. Then I said, okay, I'm paying you 10 cents more, but can you guarantee me that this never happened ever again? If it happens, then you have to refund me for my manpower, for my packaging, blah, blah, blah. So this is kind of a negotiating going along the way. So at the end, actually, they are quite good. So they are like 99% good. And if my people can find out one or two wrong, I'm satisfied because you cannot require like 100% perfect. That's impossible. Speaker 1: So were you selling with an Amazon seller account based in China or was your account based in the US? Speaker 2: Based in China because I did it very honest. And also I want to say that an American account is much better than Chinese account. And Chinese will dream to have like American account because you have fast like customer service response and you have better traffic. You have better conversion rate and people, I mean, Amazon take you much more serious than the Chinese account. This is so far we have experienced. And also, you know, so the Chinese seller are trying to open ticket or calling on Saturday evening or Sunday, just to hope that Chinese don't get on them. They will get some Indian or get some American to answer their question. So, I mean, I mean, the grass is always greener the other side, but yeah. Speaker 1: So how are you launching these products? You said you didn't do any black cat and we'll talk about that in a minute where there's some people based in Asia and Chinese sellers that they do a lot of that, but you said you didn't do any of that. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: So how were you launching your new jewelry pieces? Did you just put them up and they started to sell because you did good homework or did you have a list or a marketing method? How were you doing that? Speaker 2: Okay. When the product arrived, you know, at the back end you can see the incoming. So yeah. And then the moment it appears there, I start to do ads for everything. So which means broad, phrase, exact for the keyword, and also the same thing for brand and target ASIN, brand ASIN, so all possible ads on. And then why? Because I have to make sure that tomorrow, When I wake up, the essence has to be sold, at least one piece. I think that's very important. So I don't waste any honeymoon period. And how I launched them that before I decided to choose this product, I already know which keyword because I know in which market I'm competing with. I know which keywords I want to occupy. I know Who's traffic I'm taking and who's customer I'm sharing with. So I have like eight competitions. I know who they are. And when I launch them and have all ads on, there is no reason that it cannot be sold the next day. If it isn't, then there's something wrong with the listing. I mean, for the price, I don't launch very high. I even go lower, but I will add $1 every day. And when I launch them, if they don't sell the next day, I will change listing, I will change pictures. Of course, I will see if the ads have impression, if they have clicks, and what is wrong, why they're not selling. And then the second day, I will still watch it until it starts to sell. So the normal speed should be today sell one, tomorrow sell two, the day after tomorrow sell three. And if it's not in this speed, I will also check what is wrong. Is my ads wrong? Speaker 1: So you start with a low price. So if you're going to sell this piece of jewelry, you want to sell it for $29.95. Maybe you would start it at like $7.95 or something. Speaker 2: Not so low. If it's $29.99, probably I go with $19.99 in the beginning. And if it doesn't sell, then I will just let go to $18.99 to see what happened and then $17. So the key that the first, I don't know, 500 to 1,000 you are selling, it's not there to make money. It's there to test the market. So is this niche really what you sought? Is this keywords really what you sought to verify that? And if the first 1,000, you don't lose money, it's already a win. Speaker 1: So by the time you're having to spend a lot on advertising because you're testing and you don't have reviews yet, so that hurts your conversion rate. So the way you looked at these first 500 to 1,000, if I can just break even, then that's a big win for me. And that means I should continue this product and ride the momentum and ride the wave. Speaker 2: Yes. Speaker 1: If you lost money on it, what was your cutoff point where you're like, okay, forget this one. Did you have to lose like double your money or did you just have a gut feeling like, okay, I don't think this is going to work or what, how would you decide to not move forward after the first 500 or a thousand? Speaker 2: I actually decided the first 500 or 1000 already. So because you have the feeling, how hard is it? So if you are going all in, but it doesn't really like convert or it doesn't run. So you feel that, Oh, I already beat like $2 and I'm not even appear somewhere. So then you know, your competition are very high and they are not letting you getting any like, uh, like impression. So then I will give up. Actually, if you don't make money, or if you lose money the first 1,000, that's already hurtful enough. Why go double down? What would you need to change? You need to change the product. You need to change the PPC. You have tested the first 1,000 already. If you feel like there's no chance to make money, like you always sell below the cost, and your conversion rate is low, and your customer is wrong, just give it up. Next product. Speaker 1: Were you only using Western-based tools like Helium 10 or are there some special tools in Chinese that Chinese sellers and people have made that you're able to use to help you as well? Speaker 2: Because I got educated by you, so I was using all Western seller tools and I have monitored Chinese seller tools and they have some which they can calculate your profit and then But they are very costly, and I didn't use them because they are selling for each piece you are selling, you have to pay them 10 cents. I'm like, are you another Amazon? So what are you doing? Just check my data, you have to charge me. So I didn't use them. But for some of the Chinese sellers, it was crucial, but I didn't use it. Because Hamilton is enough. Speaker 1: So what made you decide to sell your business? Was that always a goal of yours or did someone come knocking on your door and say, hey, we like what you're doing, we'd like to talk or how did that process work? Speaker 2: I have heard about it all along, but I never saw that it's possible because I'm a Chinese seller and I think they don't consider. But when the aggregator entered the Chinese market, and when I got approached, I took it more seriously. And also for me, I never saw that I really have brand, except the brand on Amazon. So I don't sell anything offline. In the US and actually, I'm working for Amazon. So Amazon is my boss. So one day if he decides he doesn't let me make money, then I'm just gone. And so I never thought this is something I can do forever. And so and I think selling is the best way to, to To get whatever like you can get and then so in the beginning when I noticed that I think like when I know the multiple was like 2, 2.5 times I have to say back then I thought it was a great deal because can anyone guarantee that their listing can live that long? I mean I was thinking about a very rational and whatever they are trying whatever there is on the market as multiple I'm just thinking like I have to keep those listings alive for another, I don't know, three years, four years, five years, six years. That's really hard. So it's a good deal. And also the inventory you are stuck into there and someone is taking it over and also they are helping you to sell them. That's just great. And so I think that the difference between me and other Chinese sellers was I took it very serious and I have talked a lot and actually for like half year I was only working on that. I stopped developing my business. I didn't double down because in 2021 everyone thinks that they can double down that year again like 2020 but I made a clear choice that I want to try another opportunity and of course I got lucky because I was, yeah. Speaker 1: You had a seven-figure exit, right? Speaker 2: Yes, yes. Speaker 1: And so are you still involved with Amazon now or have you retired or what are you doing now? Speaker 2: I'm retired and I've been pushing myself a lot down to not do Amazon again because I love it and I really like the community. I mean, also I would like to give back. So I don't really like want to do Amazon again because I know it's hard work. So what we worked on, what we have done, we know it was not easy. So I don't. I don't think I want to do it again, and I don't have a high expense, so for whatever I exited, it was enough for me, so I don't need to do much. Speaker 1: So you know I've spoken in China at some big events and a lot of people don't understand it's like a totally different culture between the Chinese seller and the Western seller and I think it was 2018 or 2019, Brandon Young and I were over in China and we ended up speaking at this big event and it's like on a Sunday in this hall and it was like every Sunday they did an event and they had like 1,500 to 2,000 people and Come to this event, you know, that's huge. That would be a huge event even by U.S. standards. I think the Prosper Show, some of the old SellerCon shows get about that many people, but most events in the U.S. are less than a thousand and they're coming every single Sunday. And then I know they had some during the week too. It was like, it was crazy. And then the Chinese sellers, it's a different mentality over there. And, you know, there's so many people in China, it's so competitive, everybody's super competitive, they work, what's it called? Nine, nine, six, you know, nine, from 9am to 9pm, six days a week is what you're expected to work as a worker. And it's it's like, crazy. Can you tell me some of the things that you've noticed that are different between the way the Chinese approach selling on Amazon versus the way the you know, we taught in the Freedom Ticket or the Western people sell? Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I can like speak from the eight-figure Chinese seller because I I was one of them and then they have also this like a club with people who are selling. Speaker 1: So it's kind of like the MDS or the Helium 10 Elite or something of Chinese sellers. So if you're doing eight figures or more per year and that's verifiable, that you go through a process, then they have a special group. We don't want to name the group, but they have a special group where you can get into this group and it's quite a few people in this group. So tell me about that. Speaker 2: So I do not have like 500 people and I was like chatting with them. They know you, Kevin. And then they also say like they have contact with you. So we can, yeah. And we can get into that later. Uh, yeah. I mean, for the Chinese, I don't know, I don't know them. I think, you know, the contact, I might know a few people in there. Speaker 1: Yeah. That's maybe, yeah. Speaker 2: And so the Chinese seller, the big sellers, the one I know, I mean, they don't speak good English, and they don't watch American series or movies. But the one thing they are like very special, what I also learned from them is that all in mood. So for them, this opportunity of Amazon is one time lifetime opportunity. It's not, they are not playing around with it. So, they really see this opportunity as a very special Like creating wealth opportunity. So just imagine what if the Western seller was selling on the Chinese market in a language that they don't know and they don't know the culture, how would they do? And this is the same for the Chinese seller. And they are usually not very well educated. But I can give you some examples. So for example, during the lockdown in Shenzhen, So, everyone is buying food and then going home and staying home. For the Shenzhen company, it's like, who is going to sleep in the company? So, the boss is packing his bed into the company, and the most important people are all in the company. So, if it's locked down for a week, they are all just in the company for a week because someone has to Take care of the accounts. And also when they launch a product, like they will be sleeping in the office and then waking up. So boss plus the operation guy will be sleeping in the office and they will wake up every two hours to adjust the ads. to make sure they are top-ranked. And this is their way of doing things. When we have meetings there, I mean, when I was there, we were working like nine to six, like nine in the morning until six in the evening, but six days a week. But after six o'clock, I usually have meetings with sellers. And so one meeting at 6 o'clock and then one meeting at 9 o'clock and after 9 o'clock, if it's interesting, we will meet again at 11 o'clock to discuss what happened tonight and then tomorrow immediately implement it on the business. And then tomorrow we go over again, see what's right, what's wrong, and how can we change. Speaker 1: So these are different sellers and you're not really competing against each other. You're selling your jewelry, another guy is selling kitchen products and you're sharing tactics and strategies and things among each other. Is that right? Speaker 2: Yes, but actually it's less tactic, it's more mindset. Because tactic doesn't bring you very far. The mindset, how you look at it, actually brings you so far. So what we usually discuss is that, how do we see this thing? What is the basic of it? Why does Amazon do this? And how, so what kind of strategic way we can like implement it and to against, like to protect ourselves. It's more in this direction than like, oh, do I do real manipulation here or there? Or how do I do so? It's less in this level. So it's more, so I can give you an example. For example, in the beginning, I mean, the first Amazon seller, they are all mostly from eBay, which means they have done eBay and then they changed to Amazon. One day they were discussing, they say like when eBay was in China and when they invited top 10 sellers in China, so yeah, so top 10 eBay sellers coming to the event. And everyone's very friendly. Everyone knows what you are selling, and then they will help each other. Oh, please use this provider. He'll give you a better shipping cost and blah, blah, blah. So they were helping each other. Same people. When they sell on Amazon, no one tells each other, what are you selling? And everyone's like really being secretive. Why is that? Same people, different platform. Because that is what Amazon wants you to be. And because they allowed hijacking, because They decide which product there is. This is why they create this very competitive background. And so this is the thing they will share. And then how we look at Amazon and for their rules, how do we deal with that? So it's like this kind of thing we will more discuss about. Speaker 1: Why are the Chinese sellers so obsessed with Amazon like in the US or in Europe when you have big e-commerce platforms in China? Why don't they focus on the Alibaba and the 1688 and the JD and all the other ones that are in China instead of worrying about Amazon or maybe they're doing both or what is the draw to Amazon US versus just staying where you know the language, you know the culture, you know everything? Speaker 2: So I tried to do this Taobao 1688. I cannot do it at all. That's another level of competition. That's not the level I can compete with. And also, you think that Alibaba people can sell on Amazon? No, because it's a totally different mindset. So Alibaba's model or vision is that there is no difficult business in the world. So, by saying that, they are standing on the seller's point of view. They are helping the sellers, which means they gave the seller all the data about the buyers so that you can do your ads more. But Amazon's vision is that customer first. It's clear they are standing on the customer side. So by Alibaba people coming in to sell on Amazon, it's total failure. They cannot do it because they are trained by the Chinese e-commerce that they think they should get all the data and then they think they can, I don't know, so like this review card and however they get it. They didn't follow the Amazon rule and then they usually get killed very quick. So they usually lose a lot of money the first two years and either they change their mind or they are just out. Speaker 1: So selling on Amazon is more of a game then so that's why a lot you know a lot of people associate Chinese sellers with black hat. You know I know you didn't do that with your account that's one of the reasons you're able to sell it. If you've been doing a bunch of black hat the buyer probably would not have bought your account. But a lot of, that's the Western connotation, is they believe that most Chinese sellers are doing some sort of blackout, they're doing hijacking, they're going and changing their listing, they're opening, sending in 10 different products to get 10 different sets of buying reviews and combining them together. They have 5, 10, 15, 20 accounts when they launch and they're merging stuff together. So what, is that true or is it just a small percentage of the people that are doing that, or is it because it's so competitive and like you said, this is their one opportunity, this is, they see this as their one chance to build wealth, that they'll do anything at any cost. What are your thoughts around those perceptions out there? Speaker 2: For the big seller, if they reach eight figure, I wouldn't say they don't do it, but I would say they separate that from their normal business. So no one gets to do black hat, that they are big and never get punishment. So that is just impossible and there are people who does that and I know them too. But for them it's very clear that I do black hat, I do review manipulation because I want to earn quick money. They never expect that to be like a long-term thing and also it's a gambling mindset but they have also long-term product which they are trying to do bestseller and those are the accounts So they have like a clean account or a couple clean accounts and then they do all the black hat on some separate accounts Yes, and also on some separate products because it depends on the product What you are selling some some doesn't need much review if you have a great product Then you are good. But some some needs a lot of review if you want to compete there. Speaker 1: And you're telling me like one of the the sellers in this big group of sellers that that he was doing said that where he would monitor Listings I think for like six months. He would look at the price or how many or what was it? You were there ranking or something? Can you tell me about that? Tell us about that. Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, so, so these are crazy stories. I mean, so we were sitting on the dinner table that this was the first time I met the Shenzhen seller. And then they are talking about which category they can enter and then which like factory they can buy from. And then one of the guys said like, Oh, I so this is something I'm so I'm doing. Just give an example that he's selling, I don't know, air fryer. And then before he even entered this competitive market, he will look at the top 10 seller, and then he will give them bad reviews. So once a day, or like one bad review a day or two bad review a day. But for the top 10, everyone gets it. Why does he do this? So the first one gets bad review, of course he will notice very quick. So he must think like, oh, the second guy must give me a bad review. And then the second guy thinks, oh, the third ranking guy is giving me a bad review. So the top 10 is like, who is giving me? And then what happened with that is they are going to throw each other bad review. So which means the whole ranking will change because this is like the first time are attacking each other. But before you even enter the market, you can see How the ranking changes and how the review changes. And after six months, he told me that if he sees the ranking didn't change, then he knows this is not a market I can enter. Because no matter what, they can establish their ranking and they are determined to stay there. He knows he has no chance to win, then he will not enter this market. But if you see that the rank has changed completely, there might be some number 10 guys, all of a sudden number 1, because the 1, 2, 3 are gone, then he knows that they don't have deep pockets, so they don't know what they are doing. Then he thinks he can be better than them, so then they enter. Speaker 1: Wow, what's another like crazy tactic or story that you've seen someone do kind of like that or something similar where you're like, oh my god, that would like make my mouth open like holy cow. Speaker 2: Yes, so there was a story which fascinate me is in 2021 when Amazon shut down all the blackhead and review manipulation and also the big Chinese seller are hurting. Speaker 1: Yeah, they suspended like was it several billion dollars worth of sales from a lot of Chinese based sellers put them out of some of them out of business, but some of them not so much out of business. Go ahead. Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, I know some of them. And everyone, I mean, the first question when everyone meets everyone's like, how's your country? Like, like, is everyone alive? And, but the but the story I heard is that so just imagine that so you have this like millions of inventory on Amazon and one day Amazon tells you you cannot sell that anymore. But your factory Your employee and the shipping company are waiting for you to pay. So every 15 days when you get the money, it all goes to them. But if you shut down the next 15 days, you cannot pay anymore. What do you do? What I heard is that they rent an airplane. Speaker 1: Like a 747 or a big airplane? Speaker 2: So I don't know how big it is, but they put like full of their packaging, new packaging, so same packaging as they had on Amazon, but they have changed. They take the package and change the brand and put on the plane flying there to a third 3PL. And then they remove the inventory from Amazon to the 3PL and change the box and then ship in as a completely new brand and start selling on day one. And then when Amazon shut them down, we were thinking like, oh, I didn't do any review manipulation. I will rank better. The big guys are gone. No, actually they are back after two, three days. They are there and they're selling much more cheaper than before because they need the cash flow very desperate. So they really need their cost down to get the money back. And this is why actually the price has down a lot and everyone just try to sell as much as possible and so as possible just to be able to survive. I think that's what's like hard. Speaker 1: So what do you think about, in a lot of categories, the Chinese sellers are dominating. They own that and there's some people that say that if they're doing their product research on Helium 10 and they see that Helium 10 has a tool that shows you which country the seller is from, and they say that if you see over a certain percentage, like maybe over half or over 60 or 70% are all sellers in China, it could be the factories, it could be sellers, that that's not a market or a product you should do. Because the Chinese seller has such a big advantage, maybe they play by different rules, or maybe like you said, you can negotiate harder with the factory and different with the factory. So what would you recommend that sellers do out there right now to try to have an advantage, to compete? against some of the Chinese sellers that maybe they don't play by the rules or maybe they have an advantage because they're local. Is it create a better listing? It's better English? Is it do something different? What can they do? Speaker 2: For Chinese sellers, I don't think that Chinese sellers have more advantage than Western sellers. They just work harder. So because you can say, like, Chinese sellers get a better purchasing price. Let's say 10% cheaper. That's already a lot cheaper. But does that influence the results? Not at all. That means nothing compared to the ads cost. But like the Chinese said, they don't speak English. They really don't know what Americans want. And they spend all this money on the ads. So I think for the cost point of view, it's all the same. And what they don't know and what Western sellers have advantage is branding. Like a Western seller does a much better branding, much, much better picture, much better listing. And, uh, uh, like customer knows if this is a American seller or a Chinese seller. So, um, what, what, uh, I suggest them to do, I will say so fast is better than perfect. Just launch and try. So, if it doesn't work, like the first 300, the first 500, just get your investment money back and move on to the next one. And order in the beginning as less as possible, but launch as much as possible. Because there is a 20-80 rule. I mean, in the beginning, before I find a niche, I tried at least 10 different niches and come down to 2 niches, then I dig more into that. So, just expect when you launch 10, 2 will make money. Then you should launch 20, you should launch 40, because your winning opportunity is higher. And also doing it fast, because it's the internet, it's these days, like the speed, because Chinese are working three times harder than here. And just lunch, you have a great idea. But once you identify the niche, you should really think how do you defend your territory? How do you make sure that you finally find this niche? And when other people are coming in, how do you yuck them away? How do you scare them away? So that's worth Think and then that is worth develop some activity around it. So like once you finally find the meat and you make sure you are the only one who eats it, no one else comes in. Speaker 1: So Eve, you're still young. You've had a big exit from your company. You said you're kind of retired, but you're going to get bored at some point of being retired and sitting around the house. What are you going to do? Are you going to travel? Maybe do a different business? You said you're not sure if you want to do another Amazon business. Maybe do some sort of other kind of business or what's next for you? Speaker 2: Yes, so traveling around and just just catch a breath because I just think like the last three four years have shortened my life and I already forgot how to Like live a normal life. And so I want to get that back. I don't know when I'm getting, so I'm loving life and I'm not bored. And if I'm bored, I will start thinking. But I really try very hard to not do Amazon ever again. It's hard. It's really hard. Speaker 1: Would you recommend, if one of your friends came to you now in China and said, hey, I saw your success. How did you do it? And you tell them Amazon. Would you recommend they do it? Speaker 2: Yes, so I think Amazon is still a great business model and the leverage is really great. And compared to other business model, it's still very profitable. And it might be not as profitable as three years ago, but now it's still a great opportunity. If you have the right mindset, I think it's still a way to be successful and wealthy. I totally believe in that. Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Eve. This was great. I really appreciate you coming on the AM-PM Podcast and sharing. It's been awesome. Speaker 2: Thank you, Kevin. So it's really great to talk to you and I get very excited. Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, thanks again. Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed Eve and I's conversation and got some great insight from that. Don't forget the Billion Dollar Seller Summit, the virtual edition, is coming up in just a couple weeks, February 22nd and 23rd. It's virtual, so you can do it from anywhere in the world. If you want more information on that, go to BillionDollarSellerSummit.com. It's a limited event, so there's a limited number of seats even though it is virtual. I'm limited by contract on how many I can have in the room. It's actually a live event. It's not pre-recorded like a lot of summits. There's interaction with the speakers. There's breakout rooms. It's pretty cool. So hopefully you all have a chance to join us there. We'll be back again next week with another great episode. But before we do, I want to leave you with this week's quick little nugget. Accountability is the quickest way to happiness. Accountability is the quickest way to happiness. See you next week. Unknown Speaker: Thank you.