$100M founder predicts what will be big in 5 years

$100M founder predicts what will be big in 5 years Justin Mares: So this is actually a company that I've, I've wanted to invest in for so long. If you're doing this, like, please just email me. Unknown Speaker: All right. Sam Parr: So I wanted to have you on because you are one of my healthiest buddies. Last time you were on, I think you've been on three times already. You didn't get into a lot of the ideas because we were just like peppering you with so many questions and I wanted to be more focused. I think I asked you what are five or six like interesting health companies or health trends that you're interested in investing in? And you hit me back with a very detailed list in a very short amount of time. So clearly you are like already thinking and acting on a lot of these things. Can we go through each of them and you just tell me what they are? Because I'm crazy fascinated. Because like for the listener, you told me in 2014 or 15 that you were quitting tech, like you had a software company and you were going to launch a bone broth company. And I was like, Oh man, like you're, like you're decided to throw your life away. That sucks. Like you were, you were going to be one of the greats. And then it just came out in Forbes, I think, uh, or what was that? Was it Forbes? Uh, you had this amazing feature about your company Kettle and Fire and how you surpassed a hundred million in annual revenue. Um, and it was amazing. And I'm like, you definitely won. And I read the article by the way, and I texted like five friends and I'm like, Justin does everything the right way. By the way, did I get that right? You guys, you're at a hundred million run rate or revenue? Justin Mares: Yeah, north of that. Yeah. Sam Parr: And you said something amazing. I think you said, we're going to, what did you say? We're going to be the best operating Ecommerce company in America. Is that right? Justin Mares: Yeah, I mean, basically like there are most of the big public big food companies were started pre 1900. And so a lot of these companies are very, very bloated. They're large. You know, they've been around. Frankly, I think many of them are poisoning people. And then paying lobbyists and other sort of opposition research groups to make sure that like soda doesn't get removed from food stamps and all these sorts of things. And so I think these are just generally bad actors. And I think that there's a huge opportunity to both out innovate these big CPG companies and also just run a better business. Like I guarantee no one in, you know, Battle Creek, Michigan, working at Kellogg's is looking at like, how do we use AI to automate a lot of our workflows and process and things like that. Whereas like, that's something we have Live work streams going in kettle on fire to figure out like how do we apply the craziest technology, you know, like leap forward of, you know, certain mile certainly my lifetime to just running the best possible company that we can. And I think it's working so far. We have like 34 people for, you know, for our size of business, which is Quite good scale. Sam Parr: You have only 34 employees. Justin Mares: Yeah. Sam Parr: Wow. Is it wildly profitable or is it working its way to be wildly profitable? Justin Mares: No, we're, we're profitable. I mean, one of the things that I'm very proud of is like we've raised only $10 million in primary capital since starting the company. And so it's been pretty capital efficient and you know, we've been focused on building a trend, but also building a good business since we started it like nine years ago. Sam Parr: Damn. That's awesome that you have proven me and I'm sure many other people wrong and you've been early on a bunch of stuff. All right, so let's dive deep. What's the first one you want to talk about? Justin Mares: Yeah, so first one I want to talk about is I think that There's this huge, huge macro trend where people are talking about Maha, they're talking about seed oils, they're talking about all these things. Sam Parr: What's Maha? Make America healthy. Justin Mares: Make America healthy again. We're talking about all these things about fixing the chronic disease crisis in the US. I think that health trends, specifically for dogs and other pets, tend to lag a couple years behind humans. Basically, a couple years ago, you saw Blue Apron, HelloFresh, a bunch of these companies launch. A couple years beyond that, Farmers Dog, a like fresh dog food delivery kind of company launches, and I think they're well over 100 or 200 million in revenue at this point. It's crazy. I basically think that you can look at the U.S. chronic disease crisis, obesity rates, inflammation, cancer, autoimmune, all these things. The same thing is happening in dogs, like something like one in four dogs are going to get cancer at this point. This is like unique. It's new. Cancer rates among dogs are rising. And again, this is because dogs, like humans, exist in an environment that is actively poisoning them. Like kibble is total trash and it is literally making dogs sick. And so I think that there are a lot of these health trends that like people are getting into that you're going to see become popular now and in two to three, four years are going to be popular for pets, especially because now it's something like I think that millennials or Gen Z like literally have more dogs than babies or something like that. The market is growing incredibly quickly. Although I don't have a dog, but I think there's like a lot, a lot of gold in that sort of like take human health thing and apply it to a dog like health product. Sam Parr: Is this true? You say here that in some cities there's more dogs than babies. Justin Mares: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's certainly true. Like the younger, the younger you go. Sam Parr: Hey, quick message from our sponsor, Hubspot. You know, marketing in 2025 is wild. Customers can spot fake messages instantly. Privacy changes are making ad targeting a nightmare, and everybody needs more content than ever. That's why Hubspot has a new marketing trends report. It doesn't just show you what's changing. It shows you exactly how to deal with it. Everything is backed by research, and it's about marketing plays that you can use tomorrow. So if you're ready to turn your marketing challenges into results, go to hubspot.com slash marketing to download the report for free. Uh, the kibble thing is interesting. I, um, I had a dog for 15 years. He was my best friend and his last five years of life, it hit me where I was giving him, so when I first got him, I was poor. So I would like buy the cheapest dog food and then I got, you know, I could afford like whatever they tell you, you know, like the shtick they tell you is like only buy something where it says like chicken on the first ingredient. Who knows if that's true or not, but that's the more expensive thing. And then I was like, Eating kibble, like dried dog food, that would be, it would be sort of like feeding me potato chips every day. You know what I mean? Like, and like people's dogs are, you know, what do you do when you have a dog and you eat dinner? They all come and obsess over you and you like yell at them. And I'm like, if you gave me refried beans for every single meal, of course I'm going to want, like be desperate for any new food. It's kind of insane, right? That we would feed them the same thing and it's like a processed, dried, Saying that doesn't expire. Justin Mares: Totally. It's insane, right? It's totally insane. And you look at the ingredients, it's like full of trash, full of artificial ingredients, you know, like all of the stuff that people are trying to remove from their diets. We basically put in kibble and feed the dogs for every single meal. Sam Parr: For every meal. I remember my in-laws have a dog and he comes over and they're like, oh, don't give them table food. I don't want them to be unhealthy. I'm like, I don't know, man. I feel like this asparagus and chicken might be all right. Justin Mares: 100%. Sam Parr: And we had Kevin Rose on the podcast and he had funded a company called DogAgingProject.org. And I believe what they are doing, the whole premise is that for some reason, I believe it was because a lot of times you don't want to see your, you're willing to suffer or you're willing to let your family suffer oftentimes more than you're willing to let your dog suffer. And the premise, but at the same time, you're willing to experiment more. And so the premise was that they had their, what's the drug that is a longevity drug that starts with an R? Justin Mares: Rapamycin. Sam Parr: Yes. I believe they were doing, they were selling this to dog owners. And what they found was like, I guess there's a huge correlation between what we can do with dogs and what we'll eventually do with humans, like you're suggesting. And they have noticed that they have gotten dogs to live longer. And their premise is we are going to start here and then eventually go there to humans. And so, yeah, the people agree with you. Justin Mares: Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that they're looking at it as like, you know, drug and then we'll expand dog longevity and then we'll move into humans. I think what I think that like the business opportunities exist looking backwards like Everyone is talking about water cleanliness and water filtration and stuff like this. And yet when they go to feed their dog, they like put their bowl under the sink and the dog gets a load of like whatever toxins, alcohol, or not alcohol, chlorine, like, you know, all of these sorts of things. And like, that's its daily water source. Um, and I think that there's all of these things where like, why is there not a reasonably sized company just doing like Aurora, like a really, you know, RORA, like a really high end water filter, uh, but geared towards dogs or something like that. I don't know. I think like dog saunas and dog cold plunges is probably a little too far, but certainly I think that there's like a bunch of peptide supplements, you know, water filtration, things like that, that even like doing dog kennels and things like this with more natural materials that probably would do quite well for people who already think and view the world through the health lens and have not yet begun the process of applying that lens to their health or to their pets. Sam Parr: Can you tell me what Light Labs is? That's amazing. I looked at the website. It seems like this might, this is your brother's thing. It might be bigger than everything you guys have done. Justin Mares: Yeah. Yeah. I hope so. I mean, so my brother and I, we started Kettle and Fire together and we grew it. And after some period of time, he stepped back from the business. And so his new business, which he started last year, is called Light Labs. And what they're doing My first million is basically there are so many toxins and other sorts of like crap in our food supply chain. And at Kettle and Fire, we spend almost half a million dollars a year testing all of the batches that we're making of bone broth to make sure that like there's no glyphosate, there's no PFAS, there's no phthalates, like all these sorts of things. And so we as a company spend A lot of money and a lot of energy making sure that our supply chain is clean, but we're making sure that it's clean of stuff that you can't see as a consumer, yet you probably care about. And so what Light Labs is doing is they're basically building a lab testing, toxin testing company like a modern one. For consumer brands like Kettle and Fire, where they do two things, like they will test for nutrition, nutrition fact panel, run the normal like heavy metals testing, things like that. But they also do a longer tail of rarer tests, like phthalates, PFAS, glyphosates, pesticides, things like that. And then Once they run these tests, they actually expose it and push the most recent versions of a brand's lab test to both their website, or if you're sold mostly in retail, the goal is to get like a QR code that a consumer can scan and see like, what is Kettle and Fire's most recent lab test show around like PFAS and other sorts of exposures. So I think this is like, One of the most interesting things happening in the health world right now is this broad push towards transparency and getting a bunch of these things, microplastics, satellites, whatever, that people know are bad but don't have visibility into. Bringing transparency to that food system, which then creates the incentive and energy to make change. So that's kind of what he's doing. Sam Parr: I have a ton of questions on this. Okay, so you and I lived in Austin together. And then before that, we lived in San Francisco together, both very much like bubble cities, where Austin's like, you know, very health conscious, and particularly our friend group was very health conscious. And then San Francisco was like, you know, on the forefront of a lot of tech. Do people where I'm from, in Missouri, where you're from, in PA, do they care about any of this stuff? Justin Mares: Not right now, but I think if that's not Like, not 100% of people have to care for this to make sense. Like, what is undoubtedly true is people are spending more time and energy focusing on sourcing, toxin reduction. They're spending more money at, you know, companies like Whole Foods, on brands like Kettle and Fire, on their health in general. And I think that this is one of the things that people are going to start caring about when they shop. And like, the minute that, yes, it may not be like people, you know, where my family's from, where your family's from, They may not be asking about phthalate load in their hot dogs that they're eating or something like that. But some percentage of people will, and you only need a small increase in order for there to be demand from the brand and consumer side to basically have supply chains and agricultural resources, ranching, like all these practices that incorporate and think about toxin exposure, pesticide load and the like. And so I think Light Labs is the type of company that I'm super bullish on bringing transparency to the food system because I think it's just going to, like once you bring transparency, then there's energy to try and clean up and improve the food system behind that. Sam Parr: And so this company from, I don't know anything about the space. It's basically like putting an organic label on your food. So a food company would pay them and they would say Light Labs is a reputable brand. We have proof that they've tested everything. We paid them money to do it. And we have a dashboard as well where we can like See where we are in the process of the testing. Is that right? Justin Mares: Yeah, exactly. So consumer brands like Kettle and Fire, we already have to spend money on these different sorts of tests and things like that. Sam Parr: Why do you have to? Justin Mares: Because you're legally required to by the USDA or FDA to do nutrition facts panels. You have to do like heavy metals testing. There's just a slew of tests that you have to run. Sam Parr: By law. Justin Mares: Yeah, by law before you can actually just sell a product. And so that's like a thing that you already have to do. Then what Light Labs is doing is they are bringing a bunch more transparency to the supply chain and making it so that you can look at, you know, momentous supplements or like any number of these things and basically see, okay, beyond just metals testing and things like this, what are the other things that they've tested for? Oh, wow, I can see, you know, like no detectable phthalates. I can see no detectable glyphosate, no detectable atrazine, like some of these other pesticides that people care about. And so I think it's bringing that what has been like hidden in the depths of these like horrible lab tests run by companies that are like 60 years old to the forefront and making it influence consumers buying behavior. That makes me so bullish. Sam Parr: How big is the biggest lab business now or the couple biggest ones? And when your brother was raising money or when he was just brainstorming with you on describing how big this could be or like what his dreams were in 20 years, what was he saying? Justin Mares: Yeah, so the biggest one is called Eurofins. I think it's like an 11 or 12 billion dollar company. Sam Parr: Like in revenue? Justin Mares: No, market cap. So, but I mean it pretty closely maps to revenue because it's like a service business, you know, it's like not a great, doesn't trade very well. So what he was saying is basically step one, I think that we can build a competitor and be better than Eurofins. Like you submit to a Eurofins lab, you submit an email inquiry and you get a response maybe in like three or four days. And then when they run your tests, they don't communicate anything and they dump like 30 PDFs on you that you have to hire someone that understands food scientists to like, you know, translate this stuff. It's really like insane. Sam Parr: And you go to their website, eurofins.com. It looks like you're like, You know, making a vaccine or you're doing like, you're doing like, like, like some type of embryo work, like a very intimidating website. It looks like an academic site from like 95, you know, like it's very intimidating. Justin Mares: Exactly. And so they're not the type of company that is going to build an incredible product for consumer brands. And they're not the type of company that's going to build a consumer-facing product. And so what he was like, my brother was thinking is, he was like, wow, this is going to be incredibly interesting. We can build a Eurofins competitor. We can do a better job servicing CPG brands. We already know how to do that from his experience at Kettle and Fire. And then we have the opportunity to build out This entire other business where we can build like consumer awareness of these different toxic compounds and turn, you know, Kettle and Fires 500,000 a year of lab testing expense into an actual revenue generating function and almost like a marketing line item. Sam Parr: Dude, this is so awesome. Does he have any revenue now, your brother? Justin Mares: Yeah, they they've launched a couple months ago and they've started to get revenue. Yeah. Sam Parr: Did he raise funding or did he bootstrap it? Justin Mares: He did. No, no, no. This is definitely the type of company you have to raise money. Sam Parr: It looks expensive to start. Yes. Justin Mares: Definitely. It's honestly, it's the type of company that I think. It's the perfect like axe to company. Like Nick has experience, domain expertise, can raise money. And when your first thing is like, hey, we have to raise, you know, millions of dollars and we're going to write a check for like, you know, multiple millions to like buy a laboratory and buy lab equipment, all this stuff. It's tough to make that bet on like a 22 year old, but on a 29 year old with some experience, like it makes more sense. Sam Parr: Is this in Texas? Justin Mares: Yeah. Awesome. Sam Parr: Wow. This is amazing. All right. Wow. First of all, this is crazy. How much does, oh, and the, uh, the labels. So like if you go to McDonald's or fast food, they put the nutritional there, which is like way more challenging, I think, than like an M and M or a candy bar, which is more controlled. But I'm pretty sure I've always like believed that nutritional labels are bullshit. Like, in my head, I've always been like, it's give or take, maybe even 30% of what is presented. That's exactly right. Because I weigh my food. I've tracked almost everything that I've eaten for like four years now on MyFitnessPal. Wow. And you weigh it, and I weigh it, and now I eyeball it sometimes. But first of all, I've noticed a few things. One, when people eyeball their food to track, they almost always underestimate by around 30%. And then if you go and buy like a, let's just say a Big Mac, the degree in which they are different is huge. And there's no way that those nutritional labels are accurate with just the calories, let alone like whatever else, like the macros plus whatever else is supposed to be in it. Justin Mares: Yeah, exactly. I mean, the FDA, depending on the compound or the nutrient, they'll have a limit that is often plus or minus 10% for sure. Oftentimes it's upwards of like 30, 40, even 50% depending on the compound. Because as you can imagine, some of these things are fairly sensitive, like potassium or iodine or things like this that are present in miniscule amounts. It's really hard to say exactly for every single ...cookie or piece of bread that you're getting or whatever, that there's X amount of iodine in it and so the FDA allows for, you know, reasonably high tolerance on some of these errors, which makes a lot of this nutrition stuff even harder to figure out. Sam Parr: Alright, my friends, I have exciting news for that business idea that's been sitting in your notes app. The Hustle, which is my old company, has partnered with IndieHackers, one of my favorite websites, to launch a pitch competition. It's called The Hustle's Big Break, and it's a pitch competition with a simple premise. You tell us your business idea in 60 seconds or less, and the winner gets $5,000 to turn it into a reality. Here's how it works. Record a 60 second video pitch of your business idea. Include your business name, description, revenue model and tagline. And finally, submit it at thehustle.co slash big break and it all has to be done by April 4th. The winner gets $5,000 in cash to kickstart their business journey. Plus, we're gonna feature them in the Hustle's daily newsletter, which is read by around a million and a half people. And these are the smartest business and tech folks out there. The winner will be announced on April 11th. So again, if you have a business idea, go to the hustle.co slash big break. All right, back to the pod. Who owns the, like, is the Certified Organic, is that a company? Justin Mares: It is a, I believe it's a non-profit. I think it's Warden Tilth is one of them. But yeah, it's like a certifying body. Sam Parr: And I've always contested that that's bullshit because I just think that when you, I've seen farms where they have an organic section and a non-organic section. And it just seems like when you put medicine on one of them, it inevitably will get in the other one. Justin Mares: That is certainly true. The thing that is good for, I think organic is better than nothing, but it's certainly not perfect. And I think that there is a lot of, there's a fair bit of research that Organic vegetables, for example, have far fewer pesticides than their conventional kind of counterparts, but they still have some. But it's not because they're directly being sprayed. It's because of like, you know, wind, water, like all these sorts of things moving these compounds everywhere. Sam Parr: What's another good one? You want to do function health or skin gut health? I'm fascinated by all these. Justin Mares: Yeah, let's do function. So, you know, function health, superpower, like... Sam Parr: Explain what those are. Justin Mares: Yeah, so function health and superpower, they're basically companies where you can go to their website, sign up, pay an annual membership fee, and they'll I facilitate a telemedicine thing where they'll be like, hey, you can go get your blood drawn at, you know, a lab or have someone come to you and you can test your own blood for like, I think it's over 190 markers. So you can get things like PFAS exposure, heavy metals, testosterone, you know, insulin markers, all these sorts of things that to just know, are you healthy or do you have things that you need to work on? And so I think that Like I believe that Function is one of the fastest growing companies in the entire Andreessen portfolio. Like they're growing super, super fast. Sam Parr: Yeah, I think they announced another fundraising, but I think they announced that it got to like nine figures in revenue in like two or three years, like something insane. Justin Mares: It's crazy. So it's crazy. And like there's so much demand for people wanting to understand their biomarkers, their lipids, like all these sorts of things. I think that rolling four or five years, are we going to know more or less about the health of our bodies and what's like going on in our systems? It's definitely more. And what I think function superpower and the like are doing is they're lowering the friction for people like you and I to understand what's going on in our bodies and our blood and all that. And that information creates a ton of potential for action. Sam Parr: But why is function growing so fast? Because I've used Insight or Insight Tracker for years and then before that there was, I don't know, these have always been a thing. And now I'm hearing so many people talk about function health. These have been cool and awesome for a decade now. Why is this one particularly awesome? Justin Mares: I think that their marketing is great. I think that the value prop is great. It's like one price, one annual membership, get this slew of tests. If you went to your doctor and asked for the same test that Function would give you, it would be like... Sam Parr: Dude, they don't let you. Justin Mares: Well, so if you went to... Right. They either don't let you or it would be like $7,000 or $8,000. And so Function is like 500 bucks a year. Sam Parr: I had my friend try to go get his testosterone checked and he went to the doctor and the doctor was like, you're 32, you know, you're fine. Like you don't need to do that. Unknown Speaker: It's insane. Justin Mares: The medical system is so patronizing. It's like there also there's people talking about how you shouldn't get an MRI or shouldn't get your blood work done because like it'll scare you, cause all these questions that scare you and you're like, fuck off. Like that's such an insanely patronizing thing. Sam Parr: Yeah, it's crazy. Like I, you know, I've, I've done this before where I'm like, I want this tested and they're like, but you seem perfectly healthy. And I'm like, dude, just like write it on the paper. It means nothing to you and it's important to me. Just do what I tell you to do, please. Justin Mares: Exactly. Sam Parr: Like this literally requires nothing from you and I'm just going to learn. Justin Mares: It's exactly right. I think that, like, the medical profession writ large, there's certainly people that do good, but I think that many of them have this, like, the patient's an idiot, I know everything kind of vibe. And that is, if you look at the trajectory of American health, certainly I think that we need to change what we're doing. And I think taking, like, health matters into their own hands is a huge, huge thing. And so why this is an interesting trend to me, functioning superpower and the like, It's for the first time I think you are going to see millions and millions of people being onboarded and understanding like what is going on in their blood, what's going on in their bodies, and then taking steps to optimize or improve that thing. And so right now, if you take supplements, it's like, you know, Sam, you probably take creatine or something like that. You probably take it and you're like, eh, maybe I'm a little more shredded. Maybe I'm like, you know, feel better or whatever. But you probably don't, you're not seeing any of your lab markers change. Same is true of like thyroid or cholesterol markers or lipids or other things. I think as people get this information and start to retest over a, you know, six to 12 month period, that we are going to see way, way, way more products and services that sprout up where people, where like there is demand for people who want to optimize their biomarkers. So sort of like today, we have personal trainers who help you get shredded. Cause like, that's kind of the only thing people can see. I think in the future we'll have like apps, trainers, services, things like this that are specific to Sam wants to lower his APOB score or Sam wants to improve his LDL or something like that. Sam wants to improve his thyroid. I think all of these things are newly going to be marketing angles and things that people talk about because they have this insight into their body. Sam Parr: This company also took off. By the way, I quit taking creatine. It turned me into a gorilla. I got so big. I could not fit into clothing. Have you taken it? Justin Mares: I have and I stopped. I stopped because a friend freaked me out. He was like, everyone who goes on creatine starts losing their hair, which I like didn't experience, didn't know about. But I was like, huh, I'll cycle off it for six months and see what happens. Sam Parr: I went on it. Justin Mares: It didn't happen to you, obviously. Sam Parr: No, not yet. But like I like, like I ballooned, like I just like got so it just felt like I had so much water, like it was like 15 pounds in like three weeks. Wow. I got huge. Like I went from like 202 to like 215 or something and and then I was like, all right I gotta go off it for like eight days and it just like all went away Because yeah, I don't know what happened but in this function health thing these guys took off because I mean, what they did was smart. They, I don't know if Mark Hyman started it or if he's like considered, is he like the Kim Kardashian of skims where like, I don't know if he had the idea or like someone else had the idea and he was the face, but like partnering up with that dude who's got 2 million or something followers, like my father-in-law was like, whatever Mark says, I do. And so like, uh, partnering up with a guy like this is so much better than whatever else health influencers sell. Like, uh, Coaching PDFs, you know what I mean? Justin Mares: Totally. Yeah. Like I generally think also as a side comment, this is how creators are going to monetize more in the future is like owning chunks of very good businesses that rely on distribution rather than just like, I'm Mark Hyman and I get an affiliate fee every time I referred someone to check out Function Health or something, you know. Sam Parr: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. What's this other one about? Functional medicine doctor for your home. That is amazing sounding. Explain that. Justin Mares: Yeah. So there's increasing awareness around how your home can basically be a source of disease. Like lighting can be bad. EMFs, you know, are controversial, but like I think definitely have some health impact. Sam Parr: Wait, what's that? Justin Mares: EMS, electromagnetic frequencies, basically like your cell phone, your Wi-Fi router, like all of these sort of things that we're surrounded by all the time. Water toxicity, like off-gassing things called volatile organic compounds, basically like when you walk into a building that's newly painted or something like that, you can smell it. Sam Parr: Dude, do you have so much anxiety all day? Justin Mares: No, I'm pretty chill. I really believe in the like 80-20 thing on this stuff. Sam Parr: Cuz like everything you're describing in my house is like, you know, like a chainsaw and they're just gonna just... Rip me up. Like I saw a video, there's this guy named CarnivoreMD and he had a video on YouTube explaining like his house and CarnivoreMD is like the most extreme of the most extreme when it comes to like these type of granola health influencers and like he had like a mattress that had only natural fibers which I don't know what a grounding thing is but there was like This like is grounding for electricity. He had like a pole that went into the ground of his home and all the electricity had to like touch that grounding pole. Is that a thing you don't talk about? Justin Mares: That's amazing. Yeah. Sam Parr: Like it was like that he had like no LED light bulbs. He had no Wi-Fi so there was no Wi-Fi at his home and you had to plug in if you wanted to use the internet on this one particular area of his home. Like it was crazy and I was reading it or watching this video and I'm like that's cool and also this fucking exhausting. Justin Mares: Yeah, definitely. Sam Parr: Like when you just named all of these things, I'm like, I don't know, man. Like I kind of would just fucking kill me early. Like, you know what I mean? Like, maybe I'll just take that as a consequence. Justin Mares: Yes, so I agree it's exhausting. It's a multifactorial problem. It's like a thing that people are aware of, want to fix, but don't know where to get started. This is actually why I think that a functional medicine or trainer that makes your house healthy is a very interesting idea. I actually invested in a company called Lightwork. It's dolightwork.com, but they're basically doing this where they can send someone to your house And do a test around, you know, what are the things that, what are the things that are potentially causing disease or stress or other sorts of things in your home? And it's, it's like shocking what they have found. Like they tested a, you know, a billionaire's home recently and across like all sorts of things like air quality, water quality, VOCs, EMF exposure, all of this, you know, it rated very, very badly. Like, People are not looking at the home through the lens of health and chronic disease. And when you start to, there's like a ton of changes that you want to make. Many of those are which are confusing or people don't really understand. So I think that there is a huge opportunity for people to start thinking about home health or housing through the lens of health. And I think that a company like Lightwork or Others that brings this sort of home health test assessment, almost like function, you know, function health for your house is like a really, really big opportunity. Sam Parr: So they have a list on their website. So water quality, I assume that includes putting some type of filter. They have lighting, which I imagine that means like no LED lights or a certain type of bulbs. They have EMF, which I guess that is the grounding thing we talked about. Like basically it's somewhat, yeah. Justin Mares: It's more like are you sleeping over a Wi-Fi router? Are you spending a lot of time in areas that have a very high power electromagnetic frequency? Sam Parr: Dude, they're going to get so pissed at me when they find out that I sleep with the family guy playing in my ear from my cell phone when I sleep on my phone. I want to fail this test. They have air quality. So that means like do you have plants inside your house or what? Justin Mares: More like what is the quality of your air? Mostly that's contributed. Like things that are bad are some of the paints that are doing off gassing, some furnishers off gas quite a lot, you know, microplastic fibers kind of like floating around in the air from your like carpet or something like that. So a lot of these things. Sam Parr: Do these guys make money? Justin Mares: They just started, so the answer is sort of so far. Sam Parr: How much does it cost? Justin Mares: It depends on the house size, but anyway, it's definitely a premium product. Sam Parr: Like $5,000? Or $10,000? $10,000. Yeah. Justin Mares: And I would say that it is one of these companies that starting out is expensive, concierge, like all that kind of stuff. Over time, I think there's a huge amount of potential, especially using AI and whatnot, to have people kind of do a version of this assessment almost themselves, where you walk around your house with a camera and all these sorts of things, and this company just tells you, like, change this, do this, this is probably bad, this is not. Like, there's a really cool potential technology solve here, I think. Sam Parr: And the guy who started this, does he have a background in this stuff? Justin Mares: Yeah, so he got incredibly sick. He and his wife actually moved into a house. That house was on top of a power line. That house had like a bunch of mold issues that they didn't realize about when they moved in. And over the course of a year, their health, on like every marker, energy, everything, just like collapsed. And so they went, you know, they went, they're healthy, they're 31. They went to normal doctors, they went to all these people. And only after a crazy amount of experimentation and talking to doctors, did they realize, Wow, it's our health, like our home is actually making us sick. And that's what kind of got them down this rabbit hole of trying to understand the problem, which is that many people are getting sick, feeling low energy, feeling all these things because they're being slowly poisoned by the house they live in. Sam Parr: Dude, I feel whenever I hear this story, I think I'm broken because like, you know, I describe my family like where I'm from in Missouri. We're basically, we're just mules. Like we like, You know, you eat donuts in the morning, you eat cheeseburgers and fries in the afternoon, and you eat steak and pizza and french fries at night with tons of beer. And you just do that every single day. And you just don't complain. And like, if you were to tell, like you tell me that these people, like if my house was full of mold, I would just think I have allergies. It just, eh, whatever. Like, this is just how I feel. Justin Mares: Yeah. Sam Parr: Do you know what I mean? And so like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't know, you know, to like do, I'm just, I would just think this is just life. And I wouldn't ever complain about it either. I would just be like, yeah, fuck it. Like, rub some dirt on it. It's fine. Justin Mares: You're not alone. I mean, this is like how most people respond to this, right? I just think that people are becoming more aware of these things. Sam Parr: Were you not raised that way? Justin Mares: My mom was one of the early, like, into organic people. She would buy milk in a glass jug that was, like, unpasteurized, so it held these nasty clumps, and you'd, like, pour it into your cereal in the morning, and a clump would hit it, and the whole, like, world would explode all over you. It was so gross. Your mom's a freak. I know. At one point, I think I was, like, in Fourth or fifth grade, the health food store where she was buying all this stuff literally burned down and all the kids like threw a party. We were like, yeah, no more, some more crappy milk. Sam Parr: That's insane. And you know, it is funny as my wife, you know, as we've had kids, started having kids, it's so funny. Once the baby comes out of you, you automatically become granola. There's a subreddit. Have you seen the subreddit? It's called like a Granola Mom. Justin Mares: Is it Moderately Granola Moms? Sam Parr: Yeah, Moderately Granola Moms. And yeah, Moderately Granola Moms, a place for almost hippies. And honestly, it's like one of my favorite places to get information because it's people who are hippie, hippie-dippie, but they're self-aware, which is like why I like you. So like I want like someone who's like, You know, love the extreme stuff, but can also dumb it down to me who's more like, you know, I don't really want to learn everything. I wish you would just tell me what to do and tell me like what's like experimental versus what's like actually proven and like, you know, you like kind of can help me as a more normal consumer figure it out. And I've noticed that my wife, the second, you know, We had a kid, it was like no more Teflon, plastic bottles are a no-go, like things like that. And frankly, I love it. I love it. We hung out with Joe Gebbia recently. Did you know, did you ever go to Airbnb's office? Justin Mares: Yeah. Sam Parr: So I don't know if you remember this, but they were wild. So this was back in 2000. I think they did this actually from the beginning, but they had 2000 people working out of that office, something like that, maybe a thousand. And they made 100% of their own food and to an extreme. So for example, they had Air Bowl, which was some type of like Airbnb Red Bull. They had, so the condiments, the ketchup, the mayonnaise was literally made on site by the staff. And so, and their meats were all from butchers. Every single thing they had. So they had trail mix where it was like nuts with like chocolate that they had made. It was crazy and I distinctly remember that and I thought it was crazy and then I started thinking about it. I'm like, that's kind of amazing and we hung out with Joe Gebbia and I asked him about that. I go, why did you guys do this? He goes, man, that's how I was raised. I think he grew up in Vermont or somewhere rural New England. And he was like, my mom was basically into this stuff. And I was raised doing all this. And I just thought it was good for the planet and it was good for our bodies. And so we insisted at Airbnb that we did this. And so back then, you know, I don't know how, maybe Joe's 40 something. So he was raised in the late 80s, early 90s. Back then, if you did that, like your mom, you were a freak. Now, all the young cool guys that like we follow on Instagram, who we're friends with all do this stuff. And I think it's like pretty amazing. Justin Mares: That is so cool. Sam Parr: You don't remember that about Airbnb? Justin Mares: I went there. I didn't. Yeah, I went there to like meet up with friends and then see a talk. So I only went two or three times and didn't actually get that that level of detail. That's so cool. Sam Parr: It was wild. I don't know. They still have an office. I don't know if they still do that. But during the pandemic, they had to lay people off. And unfortunately, the culinary staff was probably the first to go. Hey, can I tell you a Steve Jobs story real quick? So Jobs once said that design is not just how something looks, it's how it works. And a great example of that is my new partner, Mercury. Mercury has made a banking product that just works beautifully. I use it for not just one, but all six of my companies right now. It is my default. If I start a company, it's a no-brainer. I go and I open up a Mercury account. The design is great. It's got all the features that you need. And you can just tell it was made by a founder like me, not a banker somewhere who hired a consultant in an agency to try to make some tool. So, if you want to be like me and 200,000 other ambitious founders, head over to mercury.com and open up an account in minutes. And here's the fine print. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group and Evolve Bank & Trust members FDIC. All right, back to the episode. All right, let's do two or three more. You have one on about skin gut health. What is that? And whenever someone says gut health, it freaks me out because the, what's it called? Leaky gut is the world's greatest branding. Justin Mares: Yeah. So this is actually a cosmetics company that I've, I've wanted to invest in for so long. I haven't seen anyone do it. If you're doing this, like, please just email me. Uh, my email is very easy to find or ping me on Twitter, but the thing that I think should happen is like there's, I don't know how many hundreds of billions a year are spent on the skincare kind of space. And if you look at research, There are certain things that work, like certainly there's classes of peptides and things like that, that I think maybe work decently well from a skincare standpoint. But for most people, if you're buying any sort of skincare to look younger or whatever, it's just like a waste of money or it's like marginally effective. Sam Parr: Say it again. So your stance here is that skincare is mostly a waste. Justin Mares: Skincare is mostly a scam. Yeah. Yeah. Minus like a couple of things, like certain peptides, sunscreen, moisturizer. Sure. If you want your skin to be like more moist, but a lot of the anti-aging stuff, anti-wrinkle cream, all these sorts of things. Sam Parr: Is that a, is there one that starts with an R? Justin Mares: Well, retinol A is one of the few things that's actually, that's actually relatively effective. It's like all, but this is the thing. It's like basically only peptides are the things that work. Sam Parr: That's a peptide. Justin Mares: Yeah, so it's a peptide. Things like OneSkin uses a peptide. There's something called Copper. It's Copper GKU, I think, which is another peptide. These things seem to actually work, as well as some compounds like Methylene Blue and whatnot. But other compounds, like any sort of random $50 thing that you're going to buy on Amazon that is anti-aging and uses jojoba oil or any of these things, just do not work. Or if they do, they are so marginal, it's basically not worth doing, in my opinion. What does work is... Sam Parr: And you don't wear sunscreen either, right? Justin Mares: No. Sam Parr: That's one of your bold stances, which is that sunscreen is nonsense. Justin Mares: I basically think most sunscreen is carcinogenic. Again, this is another thing in the US. We allow things like oxybenzones that are not allowed in the EU. It's in almost every sunscreen in the US. It is definitively carcinogenic. And so why we encourage kids to put this on and use it eight hours a day, I have no idea. Sam Parr: So do you use zinc? Justin Mares: So I use a non-nano zinc oxide sunscreen just for my face if I'm going to be in the sun for like a very long period of time. Sam Parr: Dude, just so controversial for a white guy. Justin Mares: I know. I don't know. It's like I just feel like I'm happy with my skin. So yeah, so the thing that I want to invest in is there is It's a lot of research that shows the relationship, the link between gut health and skin health. And so like if you have a healthy gut or if you work on probiotics or you work on like, you know, drinking bone broth, doing things like this that are going to improve your gut health generally, There's research that shows that that is reflective in skin. There's something called, I think it's called like bioluminescence basically, but there's a way that you can measure how much light someone's like skin cells are emitting and that improves as your gut health improves, which is kind of a wild fact. Sam Parr: How, how long is the, is the change? So like, for example, I don't have like degraded, I have dry flaky skin. I just thought it was just cause I'm just like, I'm a super white dude. In the wintertime, my skin gets destroyed. In the summertime, I'm great. I always thought that it was just the lack of sun. My scalp will get so dry during the wintertime and I need to get under the sun. Justin Mares: You get one of those red light chicken lamps. Sam Parr: Does that do stuff? Justin Mares: Yeah, it's helpful. Sam Parr: Like during wintertime, I feel miserable. Like I like I'm like I need like the sun to like burn off everything on my head and on my face. So if I started drinking, what's the routine? If I started doing that, how long would it take for my skin to get better? Justin Mares: I bet it would take like six months, basically. I'll fuck that. Sam Parr: It's going to be summer by that time. Justin Mares: Start now, you'll be great in December, yeah. But I think that the macro business opportunity is people treat skincare as just a topical thing that you apply to your skin, not like I'm an expression of your gut health and skin health and all these sorts of things. And so I think there is an opportunity to build an incredibly large cosmetics company, um, you know, and skincare company combining topical applied skincare that's actually effective with gut based interventions that are going to like improve your skin from sort of the inside out. And I've like wanted this company to exist for seven years now. Sam Parr: But isn't that bone broth? I mean, what does this look like? Justin Mares: Yeah, so I think it would be like a combination of specialized probiotics that that are geared towards, you know, improving skin health. I think it would be probably a crash diet of like 30 to 60 days where you're removing a bunch of like toxins and other inflammatory foods from your diet, incorporating bone broth and then some sort of like effective topical skincare. And I think that regimen would outperform basically anything that exists in the skincare world today. Sam Parr: Do you eat any processed foods? Justin Mares: I try not to. Sam Parr: But like, on a weekly basis, how often? Justin Mares: Probably very, probably none. Zero to, yeah, one. Sam Parr: So like, that's easy for, I understand that for meals. So you probably cook or do leftovers. What about for a snack? What's an example? Justin Mares: I use these. Actually, I just had one earlier. So it's a Maui Nui venison stick. Sam Parr: Oh, I have one as well. I got, I got my, my, my, uh, kettle and fire, uh, collab with them. Justin Mares: There we go. Hell yeah. Sam Parr: Yeah. Um, dude, there's so you guys, you guys sent me a bunch of them. I think like each stick is like $3. Yeah. Justin Mares: It's like three or $4. Yeah. Sam Parr: I have like a thousand dollars with these at my house. Justin Mares: Amazing. Um, so I, I do those like meat sticks. I'll do fruit, um, couple bone broth. Like those are kind of the go-to snacks. I've kind of been addicted to dried mangoes recently. Sam Parr: But that's processed, no? Is beef jerky not considered processed? Justin Mares: I wouldn't consider it processed. If you're sourcing it from a good place, it's not going to have a bunch of additives. It's basically just meat that has been dried and then some spices. Sam Parr: Yeah, I do dried mango. I do it from Whole Foods, but the problem is that I can do like a bag a day, which is like 800 calories and it's basically like four Cokes. Justin Mares: Yeah, yeah, although I don't know. I've been eating like, there's this interesting diet online that I'm currently trying. It's called the honey diet, but basically you just eat fruit and honey before noon each day and then have like a high protein meal in the afternoon. Sam Parr: Why are you doing this? Justin Mares: Just to experiment, frankly, and just see how I feel. But so far, I feel pretty fucking good. And so the mangoes fit within that diet. Sam Parr: I've been doing, my snack lately has been dates and butter. Have you ever had that? Justin Mares: No. Sam Parr: Oh, my God. It's the great. I think I saw a carnivore MD do it. And I was like, let me try this because I got a sweet tooth. Like I have a very addictive personality. And when I quit drinking alcohol, it totally went to sugar. So I'm always having to combat that. But I think everyone is. And so half a tablespoon of butter in a date. It's like the greatest thing on Earth. Justin Mares: I'll give it a go. Actually, CarnivoreMD is very into this like meat and fruits thing, like honey, fruit and meat is basically his diet. And he's very into this. So I don't know. I actually think that there is a good chance that honey, fruit, like we're on the very early stages of like people realizing that sugar is not that bad for you when it comes in fruit or honey form. Sam Parr: That's an interesting take, because I would have thought you would have said the opposite, which is like glucose is glucose. Justin Mares: No. Sam Parr: Oh, that's interesting. So you do high sugar fruit as well, not just low sugar. Justin Mares: This is something I'm just starting to experiment with and so like I'm not even sure. So I literally, I got my labs done recently and then like last week started this honey diet thing. So I'm going to test again in like three months and see how things look. Sam Parr: That's pretty fascinating. I would not have thought that that's something you would do because I like I've read about like bananas. Sam Korkos actually told me he said this in passing. So I don't want to like attribute this to because I could have I could be listening to him wrong. But I believe he said that a modern banana is candy. And the way it used to be was like a carrot. He was like they were not like this as delicious. But we've like genetically, you know, it's kind of like a Honeycrisp apple. Like, you know, like it's basically like genetically predisposed to Be like, you know, way sweet. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's, I think the new apple that's popular is called cotton candy apple. They have that at central market. It was called the cotton candy apple. Justin Mares: I'll have to try it. I've not seen that. Sam Parr: So like you would eat that. Justin Mares: I mean, I would experiment with it for 90 days, for sure. Sam Parr: Yeah. Justin Mares: Like, I don't think a lot of this stuff, like, yes, if you're optimizing for sweetness, I understand that you could argue maybe it's bad, but I think that nature tends to, like, keep trade-offs within a certain band. And so, I don't know, if you're having organic produce or whatever, like, I think that this stuff is not bad to experiment with it and just see how you feel. Sam Parr: Do you eat vegetables? Justin Mares: Yeah. Yeah, I do. Sam Parr: Well, Ari's laughing at me and so are you, but like a lot of, some of these guys are like, I think Carnivore MD in particular is. On some parts, on something anti-vegetable. Justin Mares: He's come off that a little bit. I mean, like to me, I think that you just have to have a macro lens on this, which is like, what have humans been eating for hundreds of thousands of years? It's not like, you know, in the year 1900, you rolled around or 1970, when like the chronic disease crisis really started ramping up, that all of a sudden people are rampantly eating vegetables and getting sick all the time. It's like obviously in my view, not like we are in the midst of a vegetable eating epidemic that is making everyone sick. It's like clearly like the ultra processed foods that are new to our food system. And so does he have some good points? Like maybe our vegetables less good than most people think. Like I could believe that. Do I think it is a thing that is like worth optimizing and to never eat vegetables? Like definitely not. Sam Parr: Here's one for some of these health trends. I think that polyester clothing is going to, um, there's going to be, I mean, there's already a niche of people. I'm one of them where I, I don't wear, if a clothing has polyester, I tried always to avoid it unless it's like, you know, like special or particularly amazing where, but, but in general, it's gotta be all natural fibers. Are you on board with that? Justin Mares: Oh yeah. I mean, polyester clothing is like the number one contributor to microplastics basically. They like shed like crazy when you're washing them. And there's some studies that have been done around, they basically took dogs and had them wear polyester underwear and their sperm count went down like 60 or 70% and then they switched them off of polyester underwear and like it came right back up. Sam Parr: No shit. No way. So what underwear do you wear? Do you wear underwear? Justin Mares: Yeah, there's a company called NADS that does like organic stuff. There's another company called PACT, P-A-C-T, and I usually wear those. Sam Parr: How interesting. Is women's, I mean, I don't know, does this matter to women? Justin Mares: So it's unclear to me right now, I would say potentially, but it seems like the thing that is causing the loss of sperm is like there's some sort of electrical charge thing that happens between polyester and the skin that seems to impact like, you know, sperm generation. And so it's not clear to me yet. I haven't like gone super deep on it. Sam Parr: How fascinating. Justin Mares: So yeah, pretty wild though, right? Sam Parr: That dog thing is crazy. So are you crazy? There you go. Justin Mares: That's another great dog health idea. You know, dog all or all natural dog underwear. Sam Parr: That's insane to me. So I use Ex Aficionado and I loved it because it was, uh, it like would dry quickly after you cleaned it and they never stretched out, but I think it is highly synthetic. Justin Mares: Uh, almost certainly. Sam Parr: And so, but honestly, cotton underwear for the most part sucks, but there's some companies that are making like really good cotton workout gear and cotton underwear that I, I really appreciate. So like, for example, What I like to do is a lot of my workout shorts, I just get sweatpants, like all cotton sweatpants, and I'll cut them. But like I'm a big fan of like all cotton workout gear because Lululemon and like it has like underwear in the shorts. So your junk is just on the polyester even harder. Do you know what I mean? Unknown Speaker: Totally. Justin Mares: There's actually a company. There's a company called Riker. I love Riker. I love their stuff. Sam Parr: I love Riker. Justin Mares: Yeah, it's so good. Sam Parr: It is so good. It's the only. Short company for men and they have shirts and stuff too, but it's the only, but the shorts are particularly, particularly are hard to do because you like if a, if a workout short doesn't have the underwear, then you're just kind of like flopping all over. Justin Mares: You know what I mean? Sam Parr: So you like, but it's hard to do with cotton. Justin Mares: Totally. Yeah, so their stuff is great. I really, really like what they're doing. And I use their stuff for all my workout clothes. Sam Parr: That's great. Can you tell me really quick, I just want to know what Justin does. Are there any other, do you have any other stances like this? So this is like so fascinating to hear some of your stances that might be controversial or uncommon. Justin Mares: I feel pretty confident that, like, our current vaccine schedule is very much not good from a chronic disease standpoint. I don't, like, make any claims around autism or whatnot, but from a food allergy standpoint, certainly the U.S. is, like, the worst chronic disease issue and is the most vaccinated and has, like, the most egregious vaccine schedule of any developed country. Sam Parr: So what are you suggesting? Spacing it out or not taking them? Justin Mares: Yeah, I basically think, like, fewer shots, more spaced out is, like, what I'm planning to give kids. Post on this. Sam Parr: It is pretty incredible. Like, for example, they give a kid a hep B shot, like literally five minutes or less, like two minutes out of the womb. And I was like, well, I don't I don't know if she's going to be around like. Someone with Hep B anytime soon. Justin Mares: So the only way you can get a Hep B is through sexual, you know, sexual activity and blood transfusions. And they test the mom for Hep B before birth. And so, like, you're just vaccinating a kid against something and the immunity wears off after a decade. Sam Parr: And also not that many people have. I don't think Hep B is like particularly common. Like, it's basically drug users, I believe. Justin Mares: I mean, and the other thing is, like, my view is that our health organizations have been captured and, you know, by large companies. And I think, like, you look also, the COVID mRNA vaccine was added to the infant childhood immunization schedule this year. It's like, that is not a scientific position. That is purely something else is going on. Um, so I think that's like a relatively controversial take that I have, um, that I wrote a very long piece about that I think is defensible. Sam Parr: Any other last ones? Justin Mares: Yeah. So against like the health tribe, um, I think that the, yeah, the, the fruit and sugar one is probably like the biggest one that I'm, that I'm focused on right now. And then I also think that this like demonization of, I think that the tribal stuff, tribalness of, of like food cultures is, It's something that I think is not good. I basically am much more into nutrient density and I think if you're eating nutrient dense like pizzas and carbs and all that stuff, as opposed to conventional vegetables, fruits and meats all the time that are maximally sprayed and processed and all this stuff, I actually think that eating a bunch of carbs that are from a very, very good source, probably your health outcomes will be better. Sam Parr: That stuff's like impossible to find. Like, for example, in order to do that, you'd have to find someone that mills their own grain or something like that. Like, that's like, it's virtually impossible or not virtually impossible, but it's a job. Justin Mares: Yeah, yeah it is. I very much agree. Sam Parr: Dude, you're the man. Thank you. I just like, you know, I text you these questions anyway, and so it's fun just to get now every time just to pepper you with all types of questions that I have, but I appreciate you. Justin Mares: Yeah, no, this has been super fun, man. Thanks for having me on as always. Sam Parr: And we didn't even promote your company. Justin Mares: Yeah, so my company Kettle and Fire is a bone broth company, which we talked about. My company now is called TruMed. We're basically making it so you can buy exercise, healthy food, supplements using tax-free HSA or FSA money. So if you go to TruMed.com, you can see a bunch of the brands where you can spend tax-free dollars. And then if you are interested in like some of the health stuff I talk about, I also have a newsletter, which is Justin Mares Substack. Sam Parr: And a new podcast. True Med has a podcast. It's great. I like it. Justin Mares: Yeah, yeah. We're doing like a couple episodes on, you know, movement, exercise, nutrient density. Sam Parr: Dude, I appreciate you. Thank you so much. God bless. Justin Mares: Thanks for having me on. Sam Parr: That's it. That's the pop. Hey, Sean here. I want to take a minute to tell you a David Ogilvie story, one of the great ad men. He said, remember, the consumer is not a moron. She's your wife. You wouldn't lie to your own wife. So don't lie to mine. And I love that you guys, you're my family. You're like my wife, and I won't lie to you either. So I'll tell you the truth. For every company I own right now, six companies, I use Mercury for all of them. So I'm proud to partner with Mercury because I use it for all of my banking needs across my personal account, my business accounts, and anytime I start a new company, this is my first move, I go open up a Mercury account. I'm very confident in recommending it because I actually use it. I've used it for years. It is the best product on the market. So, if you want to be like me and 200,000 other ambitious founders, go to mercury.com and apply in minutes. And remember, Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group and Evolve Bank and Trust members FDIC. All right, back to the episode.